Will Sunak still be Chancellor at the end of the year? – politicalbetting.com

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Will Sunak still be Chancellor at the end of the year? – politicalbetting.com

The betting exchange Smarkets is planning a new market on whether Rishi Sunak will still be Chancellor at the end of the year.

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FrancisUrquhart

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Malmesbury

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

What is remarkable to me in the abolition of slavery and the slave trade in the British Empire is that despite fierce opposition, a majority decision was taken to end an extremely lucrative trade on almost solely moral grounds. There are few precedents. I'd say I was proud, but that would imply I'm ashamed of the slave trade that preceded it, which I'm not, not being responsible for either.

What I also find interesting is that the campaign to extirpate it that followed wasn't just a half-hearted then effort. It was full on in every way. I'm thinking of such things as the enthusiasm with which the RN used the slightest resistance by slavers to charge them with piracy and hang them, among other things.

Something to liven up the days, and also HMG allowed them the prize money sales of the captures, and paid an allowance per head (both ofd the enemy crews, and the slaves rescued) too. But good for them.

And of course once you had seen a slave ship ...

The head & prize money made sure that the best and brightest of the RN headed to the antislavery patrols. IIRC some cruises set petty officers etc for life - pubs bought etc.

It was also part of the commitment - it was a lot of hard cash.

Another interesting one - when they found that slave ships at auction were being bought by other slavers, they started burning or chopping them up. Instead of telling the RN crews "sorry, no prize money", the government paid for the prizes. Which was another serious pile of cash.

INdeed. And it made up somewhat for the loss of life to tropical disease.

BTW HMS Trincomalee now at Hartlepool (Nelson era tech) and HMS Gannet now at Chatham (1870s) both served on anti slavery duties at different times.

When I was at uni I came across a kind of diary in one of the second shops near the British museum.

It was a book of letters to and from a brother and his sisters. The brother been a teenage midshipman in the RN. The booked ended with a letter from the ships Captain, telling the story of his death at the hands of a slaver crew he was boarding with his boats crew - the boat had been on detached service from the ship itself.

There was a further letter, badly spelt and capitalised from a member of the boats crew - about how he'd been a good officer and everyone in the crew had liked him.

So when he was killed by a shot from the slaver they'd boarded the slaver and killed the entire crew. Including the ones trying to surrender.

FrancisUrquhart

Dishy Rishi at the vaccination centre visit PR now...

https://twitter.com/hmtreasury/status/1479099294640586756?s=20

Carnyx

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

What is remarkable to me in the abolition of slavery and the slave trade in the British Empire is that despite fierce opposition, a majority decision was taken to end an extremely lucrative trade on almost solely moral grounds. There are few precedents. I'd say I was proud, but that would imply I'm ashamed of the slave trade that preceded it, which I'm not, not being responsible for either.

What I also find interesting is that the campaign to extirpate it that followed wasn't just a half-hearted then effort. It was full on in every way. I'm thinking of such things as the enthusiasm with which the RN used the slightest resistance by slavers to charge them with piracy and hang them, among other things.

Something to liven up the days, and also HMG allowed them the prize money sales of the captures, and paid an allowance per head (both ofd the enemy crews, and the slaves rescued) too. But good for them.

And of course once you had seen a slave ship ...

The head & prize money made sure that the best and brightest of the RN headed to the antislavery patrols. IIRC some cruises set petty officers etc for life - pubs bought etc.

It was also part of the commitment - it was a lot of hard cash.

Another interesting one - when they found that slave ships at auction were being bought by other slavers, they started burning or chopping them up. Instead of telling the RN crews "sorry, no prize money", the government paid for the prizes. Which was another serious pile of cash.

INdeed. And it made up somewhat for the loss of life to tropical disease.

BTW HMS Trincomalee now at Hartlepool (Nelson era tech) and HMS Gannet now at Chatham (1870s) both served on anti slavery duties at different times.

When I was at uni I came across a kind of diary in one of the second shops near the British museum.

It was a book of letters to and from a brother and his sisters. The brother been a teenage midshipman in the RN. The booked ended with a letter from the ships Captain, telling the story of his death at the hands of a slaver crew he was boarding with his boats crew - the boat had been on detached service from the ship itself.

There was a further letter, badly spelt and capitalised from a member of the boats crew - about how he'd been a good officer and everyone in the crew had liked him.

So when he was killed by a shot from the slaver they'd boarded the slaver and killed the entire crew. Including the ones trying to surrender.

FPT but too good a story not to say many thanks for it.

Jonathan

QTWTAIN If he's wise and values his career

OnlyLivingBoy

I wonder if anyone has ever given Boris Johnson the benefit of the doubt and not later regretted it.

Benpointer

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

rcs1000

I'm beginning to dream that England could make it to the fourth day in Sydney. Is it wise to allow my hopes to run away so?

Benpointer

rcs1000 said:

I'm beginning to dream that England could make it to the fourth day in Sydney. Is it wise to allow my hopes to run away so?

No.

Malmesbury

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

What is remarkable to me in the abolition of slavery and the slave trade in the British Empire is that despite fierce opposition, a majority decision was taken to end an extremely lucrative trade on almost solely moral grounds. There are few precedents. I'd say I was proud, but that would imply I'm ashamed of the slave trade that preceded it, which I'm not, not being responsible for either.

What I also find interesting is that the campaign to extirpate it that followed wasn't just a half-hearted then effort. It was full on in every way. I'm thinking of such things as the enthusiasm with which the RN used the slightest resistance by slavers to charge them with piracy and hang them, among other things.

Something to liven up the days, and also HMG allowed them the prize money sales of the captures, and paid an allowance per head (both ofd the enemy crews, and the slaves rescued) too. But good for them.

And of course once you had seen a slave ship ...

The head & prize money made sure that the best and brightest of the RN headed to the antislavery patrols. IIRC some cruises set petty officers etc for life - pubs bought etc.

It was also part of the commitment - it was a lot of hard cash.

Another interesting one - when they found that slave ships at auction were being bought by other slavers, they started burning or chopping them up. Instead of telling the RN crews "sorry, no prize money", the government paid for the prizes. Which was another serious pile of cash.

INdeed. And it made up somewhat for the loss of life to tropical disease.

BTW HMS Trincomalee now at Hartlepool (Nelson era tech) and HMS Gannet now at Chatham (1870s) both served on anti slavery duties at different times.

When I was at uni I came across a kind of diary in one of the second shops near the British museum.

It was a book of letters to and from a brother and his sisters. The brother been a teenage midshipman in the RN. The booked ended with a letter from the ships Captain, telling the story of his death at the hands of a slaver crew he was boarding with his boats crew - the boat had been on detached service from the ship itself.

There was a further letter, badly spelt and capitalised from a member of the boats crew - about how he'd been a good officer and everyone in the crew had liked him.

So when he was killed by a shot from the slaver they'd boarded the slaver and killed the entire crew. Including the ones trying to surrender.

FPT but too good a story not to say many thanks for it.

I wish I'd kept the book - I gave it to the University history dept.

Didn't even get the few pounds I paid for it back.

I remember wondering about the sisters - how they lived, how often did they read the letters to remind themselves of him.

rcs1000

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

Because they don't want to be called by their ex?

RobD

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

He had to get a new number because his old one had been publicly available for the last 15 years on an old press release.

FrancisUrquhart

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up as a new customer. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

I had this exact situation a couple of years ago.

TimS

FPT because it's too frightening to be allowed to remain there:

Yes yes I know it's (republished in) the New European, but if anyone fancies being terrified like when they first watched Threads, have a read of this.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/desk-russie-putin-plan-for-europe-and-ukraine/

Stuartinromford

rcs1000 said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

Because they don't want to be called by their ex?

Wasn't there a story a while back that BoJo was pretty much commanded to get a new mobile number, because he had carelessly left his old one somewhere on the internet and everyone who was anyone knew it?

More puzzlingly (to me, anyway) is the idea that Geidt wouldn't have fully exonerated BoJo had he known about the WhatsApp exchange, but now he does know... what?

(Is it the understandable reluctance not to want to press the button that would cause the PM trouble if at all possible?)

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

Buy the phone direct from the manufacturer and go SIM only.

RobD

TimS said:

FPT because it's too frightening to be allowed to remain there:

Yes yes I know it's (republished in) the New European, but if anyone fancies being terrified like when they first watched Threads, have a read of this.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/desk-russie-putin-plan-for-europe-and-ukraine/

I wonder if they'll make a move on Kazakhstan given what is going on there.

MaxPB

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

There's a very old trick to get around that - transfer the number to a PAYG sim, top up £5 and then get a contract as a new customer.

TheScreamingEagles

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

I regularly change my mobile number (about 4/5 years) simply because even though I have a work phone people still ring me on my private number.

Sometimes I want that break.

HYUFD

Of course, Boris sacking or demoting Sunak would trigger a VONC from his supporters.

Boris will keep Sunak as Chancellor as Brown kept David Miliband as Foreign Secretary, as it would have been too dangerous to move their main leadership rival

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

Buy the phone direct from the manufacturer and go SIM only.

The reason I know is I had this situation a couple of years ago, but the deal I was trying to "exploit" was just too good when combined with an offer via one of these money back sites.

I think it was basically as brand new Samsung S10, which cost a £1000 from the manufacturer. You paid £250 upfront and contract is £25 a month, but you got the free wireless earbuds (£150) for pre-ordering via the operator and the money back site was offering the ability to stack offers to get I think £300 back.

So free phone, free earbuds, tariff £25 a month, while the equivalent sim only deal was more than £25 a month. But I ended up having to change my phone number.

OldKingCole

My comment at the end of the last thread suggested that Johnson's problems with this (!) stemmed from carelessness.

(Snip FPT: Our PM apparently acted 'unwisely' but wasn't deliberately misleading. However the noble lord has had his confidence shaken 'precisely because potential and real failures of process occurred in more than one part of the apparatus of government'.)

Which, to my mind anyway, is just about as damning!

Carnyx

Farooq said:

FPT:

eek said:

The bit that leaps out of me is how everything in Scotland is now prefixed with Scottish....

That's something that is going to be very hard to fix but continually reinforces that all services are Scottish - without revealing that they only exist because of cross subsidies from other parts of the UK*. Which means it's easy for the Scottish Government to play their rulebook of celebrate success and blame London for the failures.

* for MalcolmG and co that isn't an invitation to insult or call me wrong - it's a simple fact of life that Governments borrow money.

The interesting thing about this is how pervasive this is even outside of politics. "National" newspapers prefix "Scottish" before their name. If you talk about "the FA" or the "Premier League", you will be understood as talking about the English FA and English Premier League even if you're in Scotland.
Scotland is constantly "othered", even by itself. In fact, it's ironically one of the things that unites people from England, Scotland, and beyond. England is the UK, and Scotland is an awkward add-on that sort of is and sort of isn't England.

Been like that for more than a century, actually, even when it comes to central government admin as I commented in the last thread btw.

Andy_JS

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Andy_JS

Benpointer said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm beginning to dream that England could make it to the fourth day in Sydney. Is it wise to allow my hopes to run away so?

No.

Yes. Have you seen the weather forecast? Rain most of the time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2147714

HYUFD

Andy_JS said:

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Councils in London, Scotland and Wales and those councils in England which elect in thirds. The councils are mainly in Labour areas, even in 2018 Labour won 74 of the councils up to only 46 for the Tories, so the focus will be more on the swing.

Plus the Northern Ireland Assembly is up for re election

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Councils in London, Scotland and Wales and those councils in England which elect in thirds.

Plus the Northern Ireland Assembly is up for re election

A stuffing ahead for the DUP?

FrancisUrquhart

MaxPB said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

There's a very old trick to get around that - transfer the number to a PAYG sim, top up £5 and then get a contract as a new customer.

I did think about that, but I couldn't be arsed.

It is a really annoying exploitation by the phone companies, where they give you all this BS about "upgrade" its a really good deal, when the tariff for a new standalone contract is cheaper / better deal and blocking your ability to keep your number without resorting to a workaround.

TimS

RobD said:

TimS said:

FPT because it's too frightening to be allowed to remain there:

Yes yes I know it's (republished in) the New European, but if anyone fancies being terrified like when they first watched Threads, have a read of this.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/desk-russie-putin-plan-for-europe-and-ukraine/

I wonder if they'll make a move on Kazakhstan given what is going on there.

I think they are already making one of their Russian-style moves. Get invited in to maintain stability by a weak despot who is wholly dependent on you, thereby keeping the country in your sphere of influence without needing to invade. It's what he tried to do in Ukraine with the ancien regime, and what he has done very successfully in Belarus. Client states.

HYUFD

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Councils in London, Scotland and Wales and those councils in England which elect in thirds.

Plus the Northern Ireland Assembly is up for re election

A stuffing ahead for the DUP?

Depends if Donaldson can win back voters from the TUV

Beibheirli_C

Farooq said:

FPT:

eek said:

The bit that leaps out of me is how everything in Scotland is now prefixed with Scottish....

That's something that is going to be very hard to fix but continually reinforces that all services are Scottish - without revealing that they only exist because of cross subsidies from other parts of the UK*. Which means it's easy for the Scottish Government to play their rulebook of celebrate success and blame London for the failures.

* for MalcolmG and co that isn't an invitation to insult or call me wrong - it's a simple fact of life that Governments borrow money.

The interesting thing about this is how pervasive this is even outside of politics. "National" newspapers prefix "Scottish" before their name. If you talk about "the FA" or the "Premier League", you will be understood as talking about the English FA and English Premier League even if you're in Scotland.
Scotland is constantly "othered", even by itself. In fact, it's ironically one of the things that unites people from England, Scotland, and beyond: England is the UK, and Scotland is an awkward add-on that sort of is and sort of isn't England.

There is nothing English about Scotland. As for the Union-Flag-Wrapping scoundrels, they seem to stick to "England" or, if pushed, to Great Britain (cos its got "Great" innit...)

Benpointer

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up as a new customer. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

I had this exact situation a couple of years ago.

So Boris switched numbers to get a better tariff? Or Boris switched numbers to lose some embarrassing messages?

Hmmm... let me have a think about that for a nanosecond.

Carnyx

Farooq said:

Carnyx said:

Farooq said:

FPT:

eek said:

The bit that leaps out of me is how everything in Scotland is now prefixed with Scottish....

That's something that is going to be very hard to fix but continually reinforces that all services are Scottish - without revealing that they only exist because of cross subsidies from other parts of the UK*. Which means it's easy for the Scottish Government to play their rulebook of celebrate success and blame London for the failures.

* for MalcolmG and co that isn't an invitation to insult or call me wrong - it's a simple fact of life that Governments borrow money.

The interesting thing about this is how pervasive this is even outside of politics. "National" newspapers prefix "Scottish" before their name. If you talk about "the FA" or the "Premier League", you will be understood as talking about the English FA and English Premier League even if you're in Scotland.
Scotland is constantly "othered", even by itself. In fact, it's ironically one of the things that unites people from England, Scotland, and beyond. England is the UK, and Scotland is an awkward add-on that sort of is and sort of isn't England.

Been like that for more than a century, actually, even when it comes to central government admin as I commented in the last thread btw.

Yes, I certainly didn't mean to give the impression this is a new thing, not at all.
And I quite like it. I hate the oppressive gravity of people assuming too much about identity, so I like the ability to dance free of expectations and call myself one thing or another. It suits me that I can legitimately say that I'm not of the same country as Boris Johnson, as an example.

It's an interesting observation of yours, in any case - not one that has occurred to me.

FrancisUrquhart

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up as a new customer. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

I had this exact situation a couple of years ago.

So Boris switched numbers to get a better tariff? Or Boris switched numbers to lose some embarrassing messages?

Hmmm... let me have a think about that for a nanosecond.

No, I am not saying that at all.......I believe Boris excuse about as much as claims there definitely wasn't any parties in #10.

But you stated "why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?". I am saying there is a common reason why people do i.e. to get a new phone with the best tariff, requires either bouncing your number to a PAYG and then back, or just accepting a new number.

I don't for a second think that Boris was on compare the meerkat to get the best tariff when his old number was made public.

Benpointer

RobD said:

TimS said:

FPT because it's too frightening to be allowed to remain there:

Yes yes I know it's (republished in) the New European, but if anyone fancies being terrified like when they first watched Threads, have a read of this.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/desk-russie-putin-plan-for-europe-and-ukraine/

I wonder if they'll make a move on Kazakhstan given what is going on there.

Already happening...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/05/kazakhstan-protests-president-threatens-ruthless-crackdown

Selebian

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Councils in London, Scotland and Wales and those councils in England which elect in thirds.

Plus the Northern Ireland Assembly is up for re election

A stuffing ahead for the DUP?

Not before thyme

Benpointer

TimS said:

FPT because it's too frightening to be allowed to remain there:

Yes yes I know it's (republished in) the New European, but if anyone fancies being terrified like when they first watched Threads, have a read of this.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/desk-russie-putin-plan-for-europe-and-ukraine/

OTH what state is the Russian economy in?

Gary_Burton

Expectation management should be pretty easy for the Tories in the local elections as a lot the focus will be on London where I'm not convinced Labour will gain seats from 2018 and they may even fail to gain Wandsworth let alone Barnet where the opposition to the Tories is split between Lib Dems and Labour at least in Finchley.

Labour might gain a few councils from NOC in the North like Kirklees, Bolton and Wirral but that's about it.

In Scotland pretty much the key headline aim for Labour will be to be the largest party in Glasgow (don't snigger).

Wales might be the best news for Labour.

maaarsh

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

HYUFD

Farooq said:

FPT:

eek said:

The bit that leaps out of me is how everything in Scotland is now prefixed with Scottish....

That's something that is going to be very hard to fix but continually reinforces that all services are Scottish - without revealing that they only exist because of cross subsidies from other parts of the UK*. Which means it's easy for the Scottish Government to play their rulebook of celebrate success and blame London for the failures.

* for MalcolmG and co that isn't an invitation to insult or call me wrong - it's a simple fact of life that Governments borrow money.

The interesting thing about this is how pervasive this is even outside of politics. "National" newspapers prefix "Scottish" before their name. If you talk about "the FA" or the "Premier League", you will be understood as talking about the English FA and English Premier League even if you're in Scotland.
Scotland is constantly "othered", even by itself. In fact, it's ironically one of the things that unites people from England, Scotland, and beyond: England is the UK, and Scotland is an awkward add-on that sort of is and sort of isn't England.

Not true at the Olympics, the UN, the G7 and G20. Not true at Westminster either as will be clear if Starmer becomes PM of the UK with SNP and LD support despite another Tory majority in England, as the latest RedfieldWilton poll suggests could happen

MaxPB

There is a reasonable excuse for Boris not using the whatsapp inbuilt functionality to change numbers, the main reason he changed it was because his old one was already public, if he used the whatsapp feature all of the people who had his old number would have been automatically notified of the new number.

However, that doesn't relate to conversations at which are backed up to an account rather than a number these days.

Benpointer

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

Buy the phone direct from the manufacturer and go SIM only.

The reason I know is I had this situation a couple of years ago, but the deal I was trying to "exploit" was just too good when combined with an offer via one of these money back sites.

I think it was basically as brand new Samsung S10, which cost a £1000 from the manufacturer. You paid £250 upfront and contract is £25 a month, but you got the free wireless earbuds (£150) for pre-ordering via the operator and the money back site was offering the ability to stack offers to get I think £300 back.

So free phone, free earbuds, tariff £25 a month, while the equivalent sim only deal was more than £25 a month. But I ended up having to change my phone number.

Sim only deal >£25 pm? You couldn't have looked very hard. Mrs P and I have 2 x sims on a deal for £14.52 pm for both.

HYUFD

Gary_Burton said:

Expectation management should be pretty easy for the Tories in the local elections as a lot the focus will be on London where I'm not convinced Labour will gain seats from 2018 and they may even fail to gain Wandsworth let alone Barnet where the opposition to the Tories is split between Lib Dems and Labour at least in Finchley.

Labour might gain a few councils from NOC in the North like Kirklees, Bolton and Wirral but that's about it.

Wales might be the best news for Labour.

The Tories should do what they did in 1990, where despite significant losses to Labour nationally they portrayed the results as better than expected as the Tories held Westminster and Wandsworth

MaxPB

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

Buy the phone direct from the manufacturer and go SIM only.

The reason I know is I had this situation a couple of years ago, but the deal I was trying to "exploit" was just too good when combined with an offer via one of these money back sites.

I think it was basically as brand new Samsung S10, which cost a £1000 from the manufacturer. You paid £250 upfront and contract is £25 a month, but you got the free wireless earbuds (£150) for pre-ordering via the operator and the money back site was offering the ability to stack offers to get I think £300 back.

So free phone, free earbuds, tariff £25 a month, while the equivalent sim only deal was more than £25 a month. But I ended up having to change my phone number.

Sim only deal >£25 pm? You couldn't have looked very hard.

Mine is over that, though it includes 83 country roaming, Spotify and unlimited 5G data with unlimited tethering included. I think it's good value, though other people might not.

Selebian

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Councils in London, Scotland and Wales and those councils in England which elect in thirds.

Plus the Northern Ireland Assembly is up for re election

A stuffing ahead for the DUP?

Depends if Donaldson can win back voters from the TUV

I still think of TÜV (and other TÜVs) every time I see TUV. Think I've spent too long doing research on medical devices bearing their certification marks.

FrancisUrquhart

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

Buy the phone direct from the manufacturer and go SIM only.

The reason I know is I had this situation a couple of years ago, but the deal I was trying to "exploit" was just too good when combined with an offer via one of these money back sites.

I think it was basically as brand new Samsung S10, which cost a £1000 from the manufacturer. You paid £250 upfront and contract is £25 a month, but you got the free wireless earbuds (£150) for pre-ordering via the operator and the money back site was offering the ability to stack offers to get I think £300 back.

So free phone, free earbuds, tariff £25 a month, while the equivalent sim only deal was more than £25 a month. But I ended up having to change my phone number.

Sim only deal >£25 pm? You couldn't have looked very hard.

I did extensive research. Not for the deal I got. Unlimited minutes, texts, and massssuive amount of data, roaming, yadda yadda yadda.

Carnyx

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

FPT:

eek said:

The bit that leaps out of me is how everything in Scotland is now prefixed with Scottish....

That's something that is going to be very hard to fix but continually reinforces that all services are Scottish - without revealing that they only exist because of cross subsidies from other parts of the UK*. Which means it's easy for the Scottish Government to play their rulebook of celebrate success and blame London for the failures.

* for MalcolmG and co that isn't an invitation to insult or call me wrong - it's a simple fact of life that Governments borrow money.

The interesting thing about this is how pervasive this is even outside of politics. "National" newspapers prefix "Scottish" before their name. If you talk about "the FA" or the "Premier League", you will be understood as talking about the English FA and English Premier League even if you're in Scotland.
Scotland is constantly "othered", even by itself. In fact, it's ironically one of the things that unites people from England, Scotland, and beyond: England is the UK, and Scotland is an awkward add-on that sort of is and sort of isn't England.

Not true at the Olympics, the UN, the G7 and G20. Not true at Westminster either as will be clear if Starmer becomes PM of the UK with SNP and LD support despite another Tory majority in England, as the latest RedfieldWilton poll suggests could happen

Notd very logical. You're already falling over yourself to demand an English parliament despite Tory policy. Just think a little bit about what that implies.

eek

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

Buy the phone direct from the manufacturer and go SIM only.

The reason I know is I had this situation a couple of years ago, but the deal I was trying to "exploit" was just too good when combined with an offer via one of these money back sites.

I think it was basically as brand new Samsung S10, which cost a £1000 from the manufacturer. You paid £250 upfront and contract is £25 a month, but you got the free wireless earbuds (£150) for pre-ordering via the operator and the money back site was offering the ability to stack offers to get I think £300 back.

So free phone, free earbuds, tariff £25 a month, while the equivalent sim only deal was more than £25 a month. But I ended up having to change my phone number.

Sim only deal >£25 pm? You couldn't have looked very hard.

Have you seen EE's pricing? Unless you know their games and how to get past them (by starting at uswitch or similar) that's how much their website rates are

TheScreamingEagles

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Leon

PB PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Remember the weird "flamethrowers" they are apparently using in Xi'an, creating various theories? - eg they are exterminating rats and mice, or "this is Chinese theatre" - a fake stunt designed to impress the public with the severity of their counter-Covid measures

One of the first theories was that "this is merely a malfunction" - the foggers can suddenly start shooting out flames. It was greeted skeptically (as it didn't seem to match the behaviour of the users) nonetheless, it turns out, it is almost certainly true. There are several non-suspicious videos of the foggers doing exactly this, malfunctioning and shooting out flame

This is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89B6ICOvJ1A&t=32s

Twitter solved this problem. Social media is not all bad

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Councils in London, Scotland and Wales and those councils in England which elect in thirds.

Plus the Northern Ireland Assembly is up for re election

A stuffing ahead for the DUP?

Depends if Donaldson can win back voters from the TUV

Last piece I read about it, from Ruth Davidson, suggested that Beattie was pulling Unionist voters back to the UUP. Could make SF largest single party with "assorted Unionists' having more seats but in themselves in second and third place. Plus of course, an also ran!

FrancisUrquhart

Leon said:

PB PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Remember the weird "flamethrowers" they are apparently using in Xi'an, creating various theories? - eg they are exterminating rats and mice, or "this is Chinese theatre" - a fake stunt designed to impress the public with the severity of their counter-Covid measures

One of the first theories was that "this is merely a malfunction" - the foggers can suddenly start shooting out flames. It was greeted skeptically (as it didn't seem to match the behaviour of the users) nonetheless, it turns out, it is almost certainly true. There are several non-suspicious videos of the foggers doing exactly this, malfunctioning and shooting out flame

This is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89B6ICOvJ1A&t=32s

Twitter solved this problem. Social media is not all bad

The lady miscarriage video is definitely true though...

https://twitter.com/StephenMcDonell/status/1479036996534390787?s=20

Benpointer

Leon said:

PB PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Remember the weird "flamethrowers" they are apparently using in Xi'an, creating various theories? - eg they are exterminating rats and mice, or "this is Chinese theatre" - a fake stunt designed to impress the public with the severity of their counter-Covid measures

One of the first theories was that "this is merely a malfunction" - the foggers can suddenly start shooting out flames. It was greeted skeptically (as it didn't seem to match the behaviour of the users) nonetheless, it turns out, it is almost certainly true. There are several non-suspicious videos of the foggers doing exactly this, malfunctioning and shooting out flame

This is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89B6ICOvJ1A&t=32s

Twitter solved this problem. Social media is not all bad

You set 'em going, you kill 'em off.

Benpointer

eek said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

Buy the phone direct from the manufacturer and go SIM only.

The reason I know is I had this situation a couple of years ago, but the deal I was trying to "exploit" was just too good when combined with an offer via one of these money back sites.

I think it was basically as brand new Samsung S10, which cost a £1000 from the manufacturer. You paid £250 upfront and contract is £25 a month, but you got the free wireless earbuds (£150) for pre-ordering via the operator and the money back site was offering the ability to stack offers to get I think £300 back.

So free phone, free earbuds, tariff £25 a month, while the equivalent sim only deal was more than £25 a month. But I ended up having to change my phone number.

Sim only deal >£25 pm? You couldn't have looked very hard.

Have you seen EE's pricing? Unless you know their games and how to get past them (by starting at uswitch or similar) that's how much their website rates are

Well maybe, but I'm imagining that @FrancisUrquhart, with his moneyback this and free that, would push a bit harder for a deal.

OldKingCole

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

FPT:

eek said:

The bit that leaps out of me is how everything in Scotland is now prefixed with Scottish....

That's something that is going to be very hard to fix but continually reinforces that all services are Scottish - without revealing that they only exist because of cross subsidies from other parts of the UK*. Which means it's easy for the Scottish Government to play their rulebook of celebrate success and blame London for the failures.

* for MalcolmG and co that isn't an invitation to insult or call me wrong - it's a simple fact of life that Governments borrow money.

The interesting thing about this is how pervasive this is even outside of politics. "National" newspapers prefix "Scottish" before their name. If you talk about "the FA" or the "Premier League", you will be understood as talking about the English FA and English Premier League even if you're in Scotland.
Scotland is constantly "othered", even by itself. In fact, it's ironically one of the things that unites people from England, Scotland, and beyond: England is the UK, and Scotland is an awkward add-on that sort of is and sort of isn't England.

Not true at the Olympics, the UN, the G7 and G20. Not true at Westminster either as will be clear if Starmer becomes PM of the UK with SNP and LD support despite another Tory majority in England, as the latest RedfieldWilton poll suggests could happen

No, but now you mention the Olympics, Team GB is a weird one. It includes Northern Ireland, apparently, but the name implies not. And that reminds me too about Ireland in the rugby union, which covers Northern Ireland. The more you look, the more you see. We really do live in a strangely ill-fitting set of social, political, and legal categories.

IIRC there's an all-Ireland cricket set up, but not a football one. Class-orientated?

RobD

MaxPB said:

There is a reasonable excuse for Boris not using the whatsapp inbuilt functionality to change numbers, the main reason he changed it was because his old one was already public, if he used the whatsapp feature all of the people who had his old number would have been automatically notified of the new number.

However, that doesn't relate to conversations at which are backed up to an account rather than a number these days.

I thought the backup was also linked to the phone number. Lose access to that number and you lose access to the backup?

Leon

That said, I am still a little confused by Chinese behaviour vis-a-vis the virus


They really are doing some VERY determined disinfecting in Xi'an (and, piquantly, you can briefly see another fogger spazzing out and squirting flame).

Why? Do they really think this works against an airborne virus? If so, why has no other country disinfected spaces like this? What if it DOES work, and explains China's remarkable success in suppressing Covid-19? We might all be missing a trick

"xi'an city
Chinese biochemistry stormtroopers are striking again to sanitize the entire city !
This time they used an electro-tricycle.
2022/1/6"

https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1479010011820920832?s=20

maaarsh

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

HYUFD

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Councils in London, Scotland and Wales and those councils in England which elect in thirds.

Plus the Northern Ireland Assembly is up for re election

A stuffing ahead for the DUP?

Depends if Donaldson can win back voters from the TUV

Last piece I read about it, from Ruth Davidson, suggested that Beattie was pulling Unionist voters back to the UUP. Could make SF largest single party with "assorted Unionists' having more seats but in themselves in second and third place. Plus of course, an also ran!

Beattie is targeting Alliance voters, Donaldson is targeting TUV voters. However even if SF won most seats if DUP, TUV and UUP have more seats combined than SF and SDLP that means no border poll unless the Alliance change their current opposition to a border poll

RobD

Leon said:

That said, I am still a little confused by Chinese behaviour vis-a-vis the virus


They really are doing some VERY determined disinfecting in Xi'an (and, piquantly, you can briefly see another fogger spazzing out and squirting flame).

Why? Do they really think this works against an airborne virus? If so, why has no other country disinfected spaces like this? What if it DOES work, and explains China's remarkable success in suppressing Covid-19? We might all be missing a trick

"xi'an city
Chinese biochemistry stormtroopers are striking again to sanitize the entire city !
This time they used an electro-tricycle.
2022/1/6"

https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1479010011820920832?s=20

Is there any evidence that kind of disinfection actually works for Covid? I thought the main source of transmission was aerosol droplets, not touching stuff.

Leon

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

PB PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Remember the weird "flamethrowers" they are apparently using in Xi'an, creating various theories? - eg they are exterminating rats and mice, or "this is Chinese theatre" - a fake stunt designed to impress the public with the severity of their counter-Covid measures

One of the first theories was that "this is merely a malfunction" - the foggers can suddenly start shooting out flames. It was greeted skeptically (as it didn't seem to match the behaviour of the users) nonetheless, it turns out, it is almost certainly true. There are several non-suspicious videos of the foggers doing exactly this, malfunctioning and shooting out flame

This is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89B6ICOvJ1A&t=32s

Twitter solved this problem. Social media is not all bad

You set 'em going, you kill 'em off.

Alternatively, I am curious, and I just want the truth. You're welcome

SirNorfolkPassmore

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Councils in London, Scotland and Wales and those councils in England which elect in thirds. The councils are mainly in Labour areas, even in 2018 Labour won 74 of the councils up to only 46 for the Tories, so the focus will be more on the swing.

Plus the Northern Ireland Assembly is up for re election

Don't agree that the political focus will be more on the swing - maybe it should be, but it won't.

Wandsworth is a really iconic Tory Council held since 1978. Barnet has been Tory except for a NOC period with Tories largest party at peak Blair. Westminster and K&C have always been solidly blue. If the Tories are running into trouble in these areas, it causes far more trouser-browning and letters to the '22 than any number of district council results in the arse end of nowhere. And if they hold up well in all these areas, nobody is going to be worrying all that much about a handful of losses in Sandwell or whatever. Perhaps they should, but it's not how politicians work.

TheScreamingEagles

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

Benpointer

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

Buy the phone direct from the manufacturer and go SIM only.

The reason I know is I had this situation a couple of years ago, but the deal I was trying to "exploit" was just too good when combined with an offer via one of these money back sites.

I think it was basically as brand new Samsung S10, which cost a £1000 from the manufacturer. You paid £250 upfront and contract is £25 a month, but you got the free wireless earbuds (£150) for pre-ordering via the operator and the money back site was offering the ability to stack offers to get I think £300 back.

So free phone, free earbuds, tariff £25 a month, while the equivalent sim only deal was more than £25 a month. But I ended up having to change my phone number.

Sim only deal >£25 pm? You couldn't have looked very hard.

I did extensive research. Not for the deal I got. Unlimited minutes, texts, and massssuive amount of data, roaming, yadda yadda yadda.

Well ok, our £14 something for 2 sims is unlimited mins and data + huge data that we've never run out of but there must be some differences cos £25 pm sim only is not very competitive tbh.

Of course with our cheap sim only we had to buy the phones ;-)

eek

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

FPT:

eek said:

The bit that leaps out of me is how everything in Scotland is now prefixed with Scottish....

That's something that is going to be very hard to fix but continually reinforces that all services are Scottish - without revealing that they only exist because of cross subsidies from other parts of the UK*. Which means it's easy for the Scottish Government to play their rulebook of celebrate success and blame London for the failures.

* for MalcolmG and co that isn't an invitation to insult or call me wrong - it's a simple fact of life that Governments borrow money.

The interesting thing about this is how pervasive this is even outside of politics. "National" newspapers prefix "Scottish" before their name. If you talk about "the FA" or the "Premier League", you will be understood as talking about the English FA and English Premier League even if you're in Scotland.
Scotland is constantly "othered", even by itself. In fact, it's ironically one of the things that unites people from England, Scotland, and beyond: England is the UK, and Scotland is an awkward add-on that sort of is and sort of isn't England.

Not true at the Olympics, the UN, the G7 and G20. Not true at Westminster either as will be clear if Starmer becomes PM of the UK with SNP and LD support despite another Tory majority in England, as the latest RedfieldWilton poll suggests could happen

No, but now you mention the Olympics, Team GB is a weird one. It includes Northern Ireland, apparently, but the name implies not. And that reminds me too about Ireland in the rugby union, which covers Northern Ireland. The more you look, the more you see. We really do live in a strangely ill-fitting set of social, political, and legal categories.

Anyone from Northern Ireland has the nice option of picking the team they wish to join when they are first selected.

A Northern Ireland Boxer, say, can pick to be on either the Irish or GB teams based on personal preference and / or likelihood of selection.

Leon

FrancisUrquhart said:

Leon said:

PB PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Remember the weird "flamethrowers" they are apparently using in Xi'an, creating various theories? - eg they are exterminating rats and mice, or "this is Chinese theatre" - a fake stunt designed to impress the public with the severity of their counter-Covid measures

One of the first theories was that "this is merely a malfunction" - the foggers can suddenly start shooting out flames. It was greeted skeptically (as it didn't seem to match the behaviour of the users) nonetheless, it turns out, it is almost certainly true. There are several non-suspicious videos of the foggers doing exactly this, malfunctioning and shooting out flame

This is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89B6ICOvJ1A&t=32s

Twitter solved this problem. Social media is not all bad

The lady miscarriage video is definitely true though...

https://twitter.com/StephenMcDonell/status/1479036996534390787?s=20

Sadly, yes, it is true. Awful

HYUFD

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

FPT:

eek said:

The bit that leaps out of me is how everything in Scotland is now prefixed with Scottish....

That's something that is going to be very hard to fix but continually reinforces that all services are Scottish - without revealing that they only exist because of cross subsidies from other parts of the UK*. Which means it's easy for the Scottish Government to play their rulebook of celebrate success and blame London for the failures.

* for MalcolmG and co that isn't an invitation to insult or call me wrong - it's a simple fact of life that Governments borrow money.

The interesting thing about this is how pervasive this is even outside of politics. "National" newspapers prefix "Scottish" before their name. If you talk about "the FA" or the "Premier League", you will be understood as talking about the English FA and English Premier League even if you're in Scotland.
Scotland is constantly "othered", even by itself. In fact, it's ironically one of the things that unites people from England, Scotland, and beyond: England is the UK, and Scotland is an awkward add-on that sort of is and sort of isn't England.

Not true at the Olympics, the UN, the G7 and G20. Not true at Westminster either as will be clear if Starmer becomes PM of the UK with SNP and LD support despite another Tory majority in England, as the latest RedfieldWilton poll suggests could happen

Notd very logical. You're already falling over yourself to demand an English parliament despite Tory policy. Just think a little bit about what that implies.

If the Tories are largest party in a hung parliament but the SNP and Labour have more seats than the Tories and DUP and the SNP make Starmer UK PM but abstain on English domestic legislation we will have an English parliament by default anyway

Carnyx

Leon said:

That said, I am still a little confused by Chinese behaviour vis-a-vis the virus


They really are doing some VERY determined disinfecting in Xi'an (and, piquantly, you can briefly see another fogger spazzing out and squirting flame).

Why? Do they really think this works against an airborne virus? If so, why has no other country disinfected spaces like this? What if it DOES work, and explains China's remarkable success in suppressing Covid-19? We might all be missing a trick

"xi'an city
Chinese biochemistry stormtroopers are striking again to sanitize the entire city !
This time they used an electro-tricycle.
2022/1/6"

https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1479010011820920832?s=20

Maybe they have something against chewing gum? Offered in puzzlement more than anything else.

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Councils in London, Scotland and Wales and those councils in England which elect in thirds.

Plus the Northern Ireland Assembly is up for re election

A stuffing ahead for the DUP?

Depends if Donaldson can win back voters from the TUV

Last piece I read about it, from Ruth Davidson, suggested that Beattie was pulling Unionist voters back to the UUP. Could make SF largest single party with "assorted Unionists' having more seats but in themselves in second and third place. Plus of course, an also ran!

Beattie is targeting Alliance voters, Donaldson is targeting TUV voters. However even if SF won most seats if DUP, TUV and UUP have more seats combined than SF and SDLP that means no border poll unless the Alliance change their current opposition to a border poll

Border poll in midsummer isn't as important as SF leader being 'face' of Northern Ireland.

SirNorfolkPassmore

HYUFD said:

Gary_Burton said:

Expectation management should be pretty easy for the Tories in the local elections as a lot the focus will be on London where I'm not convinced Labour will gain seats from 2018 and they may even fail to gain Wandsworth let alone Barnet where the opposition to the Tories is split between Lib Dems and Labour at least in Finchley.

Labour might gain a few councils from NOC in the North like Kirklees, Bolton and Wirral but that's about it.

Wales might be the best news for Labour.

The Tories should do what they did in 1990, where despite significant losses to Labour nationally they portrayed the results as better than expected as the Tories held Westminster and Wandsworth

Yes, that was a pretty good bit of spin at the time, although it didn't buy Thatcher many months.

rcs1000

Andy_JS said:

Benpointer said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm beginning to dream that England could make it to the fourth day in Sydney. Is it wise to allow my hopes to run away so?

No.

Yes. Have you seen the weather forecast? Rain most of the time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2147714

We're going to need a *lot* of rain.

maaarsh

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

I'm sure it was. I'm not saying they ignored it completely.

I'm saying they've got a much lesser story about a Tory at the very top of their website, when something far worse about an equivalent Labour figure was pushed down the page.

Looking again he is also referred to as 'former Peer' with no party affiliation given. It's a pretty open and shut case of political bias. They're the Guardian, it's allowed, no one is forced to buy then, but it is worthy of note.

TheScreamingEagles

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

PB PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Remember the weird "flamethrowers" they are apparently using in Xi'an, creating various theories? - eg they are exterminating rats and mice, or "this is Chinese theatre" - a fake stunt designed to impress the public with the severity of their counter-Covid measures

One of the first theories was that "this is merely a malfunction" - the foggers can suddenly start shooting out flames. It was greeted skeptically (as it didn't seem to match the behaviour of the users) nonetheless, it turns out, it is almost certainly true. There are several non-suspicious videos of the foggers doing exactly this, malfunctioning and shooting out flame

This is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89B6ICOvJ1A&t=32s

Twitter solved this problem. Social media is not all bad

You set 'em going, you kill 'em off.

Alternatively, I am curious, and I just want the truth. You're welcome

I think the most plausible theory is that the Winter Olympics start next month in Beijing and the Chinese aren't taking any risks.

HYUFD

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

It depends on the local elections in May. I'm so lazy I haven't yet bothered to check which council areas are up for election this year.

Councils in London, Scotland and Wales and those councils in England which elect in thirds. The councils are mainly in Labour areas, even in 2018 Labour won 74 of the councils up to only 46 for the Tories, so the focus will be more on the swing.

Plus the Northern Ireland Assembly is up for re election

Don't agree that the political focus will be more on the swing - maybe it should be, but it won't.

Wandsworth is a really iconic Tory Council held since 1978. Barnet has been Tory except for a NOC period with Tories largest party at peak Blair. Westminster and K&C have always been solidly blue. If the Tories are running into trouble in these areas, it causes far more trouser-browning and letters to the '22 than any number of district council results in the arse end of nowhere. And if they hold up well in all these areas, nobody is going to be worrying all that much about a handful of losses in Sandwell or whatever. Perhaps they should, but it's not how politicians work.

Some truth in that, the Tories could lose all those flagship London boroughs next year except K&C

rcs1000

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

Weirdly, the Morning Star hardly ran any stories about Stalin's crimes.

Mexicanpete

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

I thought it quite justifiably got rather a lot of coverage across the media.

The Labour Party may be a miserable bunch of lowlifes for enobling Ahmed in the same way the Conservatives were for knighting Peter Morrison. Nonetheless I don't really think the Labour Party can be blamed directly for the crimes of Ahmed.

Leon

RobD said:

Leon said:

That said, I am still a little confused by Chinese behaviour vis-a-vis the virus


They really are doing some VERY determined disinfecting in Xi'an (and, piquantly, you can briefly see another fogger spazzing out and squirting flame).

Why? Do they really think this works against an airborne virus? If so, why has no other country disinfected spaces like this? What if it DOES work, and explains China's remarkable success in suppressing Covid-19? We might all be missing a trick

"xi'an city
Chinese biochemistry stormtroopers are striking again to sanitize the entire city !
This time they used an electro-tricycle.
2022/1/6"

https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1479010011820920832?s=20

Is there any evidence that kind of disinfection actually works for Covid? I thought the main source of transmission was aerosol droplets, not touching stuff.

Exactly

If it DOES work, why aren't we doing it? If it does NOT work, why are they doing it?

Peculiar

TheScreamingEagles

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

I'm sure it was. I'm not saying they ignored it completely.

I'm saying they've got a much lesser story about a Tory at the very top of their website, when something far worse about an equivalent Labour figure was pushed down the page.

Looking again he is also referred to as 'former Peer' with no party affiliation given. It's a pretty open and shut case of political bias. They're the Guardian, it's allowed, no one is forced to buy then, but it is worthy of note.

You don't look very hard do you?

Appointed a life peer by Tony Blair, Ahmed resigned from the Labour party in 2013.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/05/former-peer-nazir-ahmed-found-guilty-of-serious-sexual-assault

Luckyguy1983

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

What is remarkable to me in the abolition of slavery and the slave trade in the British Empire is that despite fierce opposition, a majority decision was taken to end an extremely lucrative trade on almost solely moral grounds. There are few precedents. I'd say I was proud, but that would imply I'm ashamed of the slave trade that preceded it, which I'm not, not being responsible for either.

What I also find interesting is that the campaign to extirpate it that followed wasn't just a half-hearted then effort. It was full on in every way. I'm thinking of such things as the enthusiasm with which the RN used the slightest resistance by slavers to charge them with piracy and hang them, among other things.

Something to liven up the days, and also HMG allowed them the prize money sales of the captures, and paid an allowance per head (both ofd the enemy crews, and the slaves rescued) too. But good for them.

And of course once you had seen a slave ship ...

The head & prize money made sure that the best and brightest of the RN headed to the antislavery patrols. IIRC some cruises set petty officers etc for life - pubs bought etc.

It was also part of the commitment - it was a lot of hard cash.

Another interesting one - when they found that slave ships at auction were being bought by other slavers, they started burning or chopping them up. Instead of telling the RN crews "sorry, no prize money", the government paid for the prizes. Which was another serious pile of cash.

INdeed. And it made up somewhat for the loss of life to tropical disease.

BTW HMS Trincomalee now at Hartlepool (Nelson era tech) and HMS Gannet now at Chatham (1870s) both served on anti slavery duties at different times.

When I was at uni I came across a kind of diary in one of the second shops near the British museum.

It was a book of letters to and from a brother and his sisters. The brother been a teenage midshipman in the RN. The booked ended with a letter from the ships Captain, telling the story of his death at the hands of a slaver crew he was boarding with his boats crew - the boat had been on detached service from the ship itself.

There was a further letter, badly spelt and capitalised from a member of the boats crew - about how he'd been a good officer and everyone in the crew had liked him.

So when he was killed by a shot from the slaver they'd boarded the slaver and killed the entire crew. Including the ones trying to surrender.

FPT but too good a story not to say many thanks for it.

A fascinating story, and thanks both for the other info. Not to be a party pooper, but I don't really approve of summary executions of slavers either I'm afraid. Though it was probably a bit of a bugger to know what to do with them.

RobD

Mexicanpete said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

I thought it quite justifiably got rather a lot of coverage across the media.

The Labour Party may be a miserable bunch of lowlifes for enobling Ahmed in the same way the Conservatives were for knighting Peter Morrison. Nonetheless I don't really think the Labour Party can be blamed directly for the crimes of Ahmed.

No, and I don’t think anyone is saying that it should be. But there does appear to be a double standard with how they are reported.

maaarsh

Mexicanpete said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

I thought it quite justifiably got rather a lot of coverage across the media.

The Labour Party may be a miserable bunch of lowlifes for enobling Ahmed in the same way the Conservatives were for knighting Peter Morrison. Nonetheless I don't really think the Labour Party can be blamed directly for the crimes of Ahmed.

All fair, but not particularly addressing my point.

Today the Guardian has a much more minor story about a Tory Peer at the top of the page and the headline makes it all about her being a Tory, when it is equally not relevant.

Yesterday a significantly worse story was given much less prominance (3rd on the side bar for 3 hours then removed from front page completely), and they never even mentioned Labour in the headline.

I'm not saying no one covered it. I'm saying the Guardian let their bias show for all to see.

Alistair

rcs1000 said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

Weirdly, the Morning Star hardly ran any stories about Stalin's crimes.

Comparing the front pages





Same sidebar. Michelle gets a photo.

JohnLilburne

Farooq said:

eek said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

FPT:

eek said:

The bit that leaps out of me is how everything in Scotland is now prefixed with Scottish....

That's something that is going to be very hard to fix but continually reinforces that all services are Scottish - without revealing that they only exist because of cross subsidies from other parts of the UK*. Which means it's easy for the Scottish Government to play their rulebook of celebrate success and blame London for the failures.

* for MalcolmG and co that isn't an invitation to insult or call me wrong - it's a simple fact of life that Governments borrow money.

The interesting thing about this is how pervasive this is even outside of politics. "National" newspapers prefix "Scottish" before their name. If you talk about "the FA" or the "Premier League", you will be understood as talking about the English FA and English Premier League even if you're in Scotland.
Scotland is constantly "othered", even by itself. In fact, it's ironically one of the things that unites people from England, Scotland, and beyond: England is the UK, and Scotland is an awkward add-on that sort of is and sort of isn't England.

Not true at the Olympics, the UN, the G7 and G20. Not true at Westminster either as will be clear if Starmer becomes PM of the UK with SNP and LD support despite another Tory majority in England, as the latest RedfieldWilton poll suggests could happen

No, but now you mention the Olympics, Team GB is a weird one. It includes Northern Ireland, apparently, but the name implies not. And that reminds me too about Ireland in the rugby union, which covers Northern Ireland. The more you look, the more you see. We really do live in a strangely ill-fitting set of social, political, and legal categories.

Anyone from Northern Ireland has the nice option of picking the team they wish to join when they are first selected.

A Northern Ireland Boxer, say, can pick to be on either the Irish or GB teams based on personal preference and / or likelihood of selection.

Ok. But whichever they choose, the name isn't quite right.

In this case, I think GB is actually short for GB&NI. Which is still incorrect as I think the Manx and Channel Islanders compete for "GB" at the Olympics.

Benpointer

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

PB PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Remember the weird "flamethrowers" they are apparently using in Xi'an, creating various theories? - eg they are exterminating rats and mice, or "this is Chinese theatre" - a fake stunt designed to impress the public with the severity of their counter-Covid measures

One of the first theories was that "this is merely a malfunction" - the foggers can suddenly start shooting out flames. It was greeted skeptically (as it didn't seem to match the behaviour of the users) nonetheless, it turns out, it is almost certainly true. There are several non-suspicious videos of the foggers doing exactly this, malfunctioning and shooting out flame

This is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89B6ICOvJ1A&t=32s

Twitter solved this problem. Social media is not all bad

You set 'em going, you kill 'em off.

Alternatively, I am curious, and I just want the truth. You're welcome

Only teasing - I come on here to get a board sweep of often contradictory views. Your posts alone provide quite a broad sweep. ;-)

maaarsh

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

I'm sure it was. I'm not saying they ignored it completely.

I'm saying they've got a much lesser story about a Tory at the very top of their website, when something far worse about an equivalent Labour figure was pushed down the page.

Looking again he is also referred to as 'former Peer' with no party affiliation given. It's a pretty open and shut case of political bias. They're the Guardian, it's allowed, no one is forced to buy then, but it is worthy of note.

You don't look very hard do you?

Appointed a life peer by Tony Blair, Ahmed resigned from the Labour party in 2013.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/05/former-peer-nazir-ahmed-found-guilty-of-serious-sexual-assault

The link in your post confirms no refernce to Labour in the headline, the only bit 90% of people will ever read.

Compare and contrast -

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/06/met-investigating-tory-peer-michelle-mone-over-racist-message

This is so blatent I really can't believe anyone is trying to debate it.

TheScreamingEagles

maaarsh said:

Mexicanpete said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

I thought it quite justifiably got rather a lot of coverage across the media.

The Labour Party may be a miserable bunch of lowlifes for enobling Ahmed in the same way the Conservatives were for knighting Peter Morrison. Nonetheless I don't really think the Labour Party can be blamed directly for the crimes of Ahmed.

All fair, but not particularly addressing my point.

Today the Guardian has a much more minor story about a Tory Peer at the top of the page and the headline makes it all about her being a Tory, when it is equally not relevant.

Yesterday a significantly worse story was given much less prominance (3rd on the side bar for 3 hours then removed from front page completely), and they never even mentioned Labour in the headline.

I'm not saying no one covered it. I'm saying the Guardian let their bias show for all to see.

Don't be dense, the Guardian are bigging up the fact they exposed the original allegations, something which no other newspaper has ever done.

The alleged contents of WhatsApp messages, in which Mone also allegedly described Lynton-Jones’s partner as a “mental loony” and “nut case bird”, were revealed by the Guardian last month.

Leon

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

PB PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Remember the weird "flamethrowers" they are apparently using in Xi'an, creating various theories? - eg they are exterminating rats and mice, or "this is Chinese theatre" - a fake stunt designed to impress the public with the severity of their counter-Covid measures

One of the first theories was that "this is merely a malfunction" - the foggers can suddenly start shooting out flames. It was greeted skeptically (as it didn't seem to match the behaviour of the users) nonetheless, it turns out, it is almost certainly true. There are several non-suspicious videos of the foggers doing exactly this, malfunctioning and shooting out flame

This is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89B6ICOvJ1A&t=32s

Twitter solved this problem. Social media is not all bad

You set 'em going, you kill 'em off.

Alternatively, I am curious, and I just want the truth. You're welcome

I think the most plausible theory is that the Winter Olympics start next month in Beijing and the Chinese aren't taking any risks.

I'm not talking about Xi'an per se, I'm referring specifically to their habit of disinfecting entire cities with foggers of all kinds (sometimes enormous tankers doing whole streets in one go)

No other country - as far as I know - has used this technique. Yet the Chinese have done it from the get-go in Wuhan, and then elsewhere

Odd

And they are - if their stats are to be believed - by a distance THE most successful country when it comes to controlling Covid. Perhaps we should all be out with our foggers

SirNorfolkPassmore

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

Ahmed has not been a Labour peer for eight years. Agree he's appalling, but parted ways with Labour many years ago (and in any event his conviction has been very widely reported in truth).

Mone remains a Conservative peer, and apparently retains the confidence of her party's leadership at this time.

Carnyx

maaarsh said:

Mexicanpete said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

I thought it quite justifiably got rather a lot of coverage across the media.

The Labour Party may be a miserable bunch of lowlifes for enobling Ahmed in the same way the Conservatives were for knighting Peter Morrison. Nonetheless I don't really think the Labour Party can be blamed directly for the crimes of Ahmed.

All fair, but not particularly addressing my point.

Today the Guardian has a much more minor story about a Tory Peer at the top of the page and the headline makes it all about her being a Tory, when it is equally not relevant.

Yesterday a significantly worse story was given much less prominance (3rd on the side bar for 3 hours then removed from front page completely), and they never even mentioned Labour in the headline.

I'm not saying no one covered it. I'm saying the Guardian let their bias show for all to see.

Was he not removed or suspended from the Labour whip on charging?

OTOH the Graun is happy to refer in its headline today (UK news) to the 'ex-SNP MP' Ms Ferrier as standing trial, so that doesn't work.

Benpointer

MaxPB said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its a good job he had a snafu with his change of phone....

This paragraph at the very bottom of Geidt's letter to the PM seems very important. He says that if he'd seen the WhatsApp exchange he likely would have found that the PM didn't follow the rules on declaring his interests.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1479096989006512129?s=20

Is Johnson claiming that because he had a new device he couldn't access his old WhatApp messages? For that to be the case he'd surely have had to change the phone number and advise all his WhatsApp contacts of that fact. Seems very odd - why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days?

No I think he is trying to claim they didn't all transfer over......

"why does anyone get a new number with an new device these days"

Actually, there is a really annoying loophole to PAC / moving number system that providers exploit. There are deals which aren't available to existing customers, especially getting the latest phones. If you want to keep your number and get a new phone, they will offer you a worse tariff to "Upgrade".

The only other way get it is to cancel your contract and sign up. But in doing so, they won't let you do it in the time period that PAC works.

The reason I know is I had this situation a couple of years ago, but the deal I was trying to "exploit" was just too good when combined with an offer via one of these money back sites.

I think it was basically as brand new Samsung S10, which cost a £1000 from the manufacturer. You paid £250 upfront and contract is £25 a month, but you got the free wireless earbuds (£150) for pre-ordering via the operator and the money back site was offering the ability to stack offers to get I think £300 back.

So free phone, free earbuds, tariff £25 a month, while the equivalent sim only deal was more than £25 a month. But I ended up having to change my phone number.

Sim only deal >£25 pm? You couldn't have looked very hard.

Mine is over that, though it includes 83 country roaming, Spotify and unlimited 5G data with unlimited tethering included. I think it's good value, though other people might not.

Buy the phone direct from the manufacturer and go SIM only.

Fair point. I hope you got a rebate on the 83 country roaming for the past two years though!

TheScreamingEagles

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

I'm sure it was. I'm not saying they ignored it completely.

I'm saying they've got a much lesser story about a Tory at the very top of their website, when something far worse about an equivalent Labour figure was pushed down the page.

Looking again he is also referred to as 'former Peer' with no party affiliation given. It's a pretty open and shut case of political bias. They're the Guardian, it's allowed, no one is forced to buy then, but it is worthy of note.

You don't look very hard do you?

Appointed a life peer by Tony Blair, Ahmed resigned from the Labour party in 2013.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/05/former-peer-nazir-ahmed-found-guilty-of-serious-sexual-assault

The link in your post confirms no refernce to Labour in the headline, the only bit 90% of people will ever read.

Compare and contrast -

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/06/met-investigating-tory-peer-michelle-mone-over-racist-message

This is so blatent I really can't believe anyone is trying to debate it.

Because he's not been a Labour peer for checks diary, nine years.

TheScreamingEagles

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

PB PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Remember the weird "flamethrowers" they are apparently using in Xi'an, creating various theories? - eg they are exterminating rats and mice, or "this is Chinese theatre" - a fake stunt designed to impress the public with the severity of their counter-Covid measures

One of the first theories was that "this is merely a malfunction" - the foggers can suddenly start shooting out flames. It was greeted skeptically (as it didn't seem to match the behaviour of the users) nonetheless, it turns out, it is almost certainly true. There are several non-suspicious videos of the foggers doing exactly this, malfunctioning and shooting out flame

This is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89B6ICOvJ1A&t=32s

Twitter solved this problem. Social media is not all bad

You set 'em going, you kill 'em off.

Alternatively, I am curious, and I just want the truth. You're welcome

I think the most plausible theory is that the Winter Olympics start next month in Beijing and the Chinese aren't taking any risks.

I'm not talking about Xi'an per se, I'm referring specifically to their habit of disinfecting entire cities with foggers of all kinds (sometimes enormous tankers doing whole streets in one go)

No other country - as far as I know - has used this technique. Yet the Chinese have done it from the get-go in Wuhan, and then elsewhere

Odd

And they are - if their stats are to be believed - by a distance THE most successful country when it comes to controlling Covid. Perhaps we should all be out with our foggers

Well the Chinese created the virus, they know how to defeat it.

OldKingCole

rcs1000 said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

Weirdly, the Morning Star hardly ran any stories about Stalin's crimes.

Didn't run any. It was the Daily Worker then! Tended, in the 50's to concentrate, as I recall, on industrial matters.
Used to buy it at the station on the way to school from when I was about 14. I think the station, in what is now Southend West, had about three copies.

FrancisUrquhart

I think there might be a bit of COVID about in Italy....

A total of 125 passengers who arrived in the northern Indian city of Amritsar on a chartered flight from Italy have tested positive for Covid-19. They were among 179 passengers on the flight from Milan which landed in Amritsar on Wednesday afternoon.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-59894989

Leon

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

PB PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Remember the weird "flamethrowers" they are apparently using in Xi'an, creating various theories? - eg they are exterminating rats and mice, or "this is Chinese theatre" - a fake stunt designed to impress the public with the severity of their counter-Covid measures

One of the first theories was that "this is merely a malfunction" - the foggers can suddenly start shooting out flames. It was greeted skeptically (as it didn't seem to match the behaviour of the users) nonetheless, it turns out, it is almost certainly true. There are several non-suspicious videos of the foggers doing exactly this, malfunctioning and shooting out flame

This is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89B6ICOvJ1A&t=32s

Twitter solved this problem. Social media is not all bad

You set 'em going, you kill 'em off.

Alternatively, I am curious, and I just want the truth. You're welcome

I think the most plausible theory is that the Winter Olympics start next month in Beijing and the Chinese aren't taking any risks.

I'm not talking about Xi'an per se, I'm referring specifically to their habit of disinfecting entire cities with foggers of all kinds (sometimes enormous tankers doing whole streets in one go)

No other country - as far as I know - has used this technique. Yet the Chinese have done it from the get-go in Wuhan, and then elsewhere

Odd

And they are - if their stats are to be believed - by a distance THE most successful country when it comes to controlling Covid. Perhaps we should all be out with our foggers

Well the Chinese created the virus, they know how to defeat it.

That is the obvious but unspoken implication. Tho you went and spake it

Carnyx

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

We did but you didn't look hard enough or often enough.

Wayback machine confirms it was never given the same prominance, despite being much more of a story (conviction vs investigation, single racist message vs multiple child rape).

This isn't a difficult one.

It was on the app.

I'm sure it was. I'm not saying they ignored it completely.

I'm saying they've got a much lesser story about a Tory at the very top of their website, when something far worse about an equivalent Labour figure was pushed down the page.

Looking again he is also referred to as 'former Peer' with no party affiliation given. It's a pretty open and shut case of political bias. They're the Guardian, it's allowed, no one is forced to buy then, but it is worthy of note.

You don't look very hard do you?

Appointed a life peer by Tony Blair, Ahmed resigned from the Labour party in 2013.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/05/former-peer-nazir-ahmed-found-guilty-of-serious-sexual-assault

The link in your post confirms no refernce to Labour in the headline, the only bit 90% of people will ever read.

Compare and contrast -

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/06/met-investigating-tory-peer-michelle-mone-over-racist-message

This is so blatent I really can't believe anyone is trying to debate it.

Because he's not been a Labour peer for checks diary, nine years.

Obvs not neing a SNP MP for a year isn't long enough. So we're getting somewhere between 1 and 9 as the criterion.

SirNorfolkPassmore

Carnyx said:

maaarsh said:

Mexicanpete said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

I thought it quite justifiably got rather a lot of coverage across the media.

The Labour Party may be a miserable bunch of lowlifes for enobling Ahmed in the same way the Conservatives were for knighting Peter Morrison. Nonetheless I don't really think the Labour Party can be blamed directly for the crimes of Ahmed.

All fair, but not particularly addressing my point.

Today the Guardian has a much more minor story about a Tory Peer at the top of the page and the headline makes it all about her being a Tory, when it is equally not relevant.

Yesterday a significantly worse story was given much less prominance (3rd on the side bar for 3 hours then removed from front page completely), and they never even mentioned Labour in the headline.

I'm not saying no one covered it. I'm saying the Guardian let their bias show for all to see.

Was he not removed or suspended from the Labour whip on charging?

OTOH the Graun is happy to refer to the 'ex-SNP MP' Ms Ferrier as standing trial, so that doesn't work.

Actually, he left Labour several years before that. He's dodgy as f*** and should never have been ennobled. But his history in the Labour Party is long over.

Mexicanpete

maaarsh said:

Mexicanpete said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

I thought it quite justifiably got rather a lot of coverage across the media.

The Labour Party may be a miserable bunch of lowlifes for enobling Ahmed in the same way the Conservatives were for knighting Peter Morrison. Nonetheless I don't really think the Labour Party can be blamed directly for the crimes of Ahmed.

All fair, but not particularly addressing my point.

Today the Guardian has a much more minor story about a Tory Peer at the top of the page and the headline makes it all about her being a Tory, when it is equally not relevant.

Yesterday a significantly worse story was given much less prominance (3rd on the side bar for 3 hours then removed from front page completely), and they never even mentioned Labour in the headline.

I'm not saying no one covered it. I'm saying the Guardian let their bias show for all to see.

RobD said:

Mexicanpete said:

maaarsh said:

Guardian front page has 'Tory peer investigated for racist messages' at the top.

Strangely we didn't get the same prominance for Labour Lord convicted of child rape yesterday.

I thought it quite justifiably got rather a lot of coverage across the media.

The Labour Party may be a miserable bunch of lowlifes for enobling Ahmed in the same way the Conservatives were for knighting Peter Morrison. Nonetheless I don't really think the Labour Party can be blamed directly for the crimes of Ahmed.

No, and I don’t think anyone is saying that it should be. But there does appear to be a double standard with how they are reported.

In ALL the news reports I saw, heard or read Ahmed was described as a "former LABOUR peer". I don't see a double standard at all from the Guardian.

If you both believe Tony Blair should apologise for enobling Ahmed, I don't disagree with your call.

Malmesbury

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

What is remarkable to me in the abolition of slavery and the slave trade in the British Empire is that despite fierce opposition, a majority decision was taken to end an extremely lucrative trade on almost solely moral grounds. There are few precedents. I'd say I was proud, but that would imply I'm ashamed of the slave trade that preceded it, which I'm not, not being responsible for either.

What I also find interesting is that the campaign to extirpate it that followed wasn't just a half-hearted then effort. It was full on in every way. I'm thinking of such things as the enthusiasm with which the RN used the slightest resistance by slavers to charge them with piracy and hang them, among other things.

Something to liven up the days, and also HMG allowed them the prize money sales of the captures, and paid an allowance per head (both ofd the enemy crews, and the slaves rescued) too. But good for them.

And of course once you had seen a slave ship ...

The head & prize money made sure that the best and brightest of the RN headed to the antislavery patrols. IIRC some cruises set petty officers etc for life - pubs bought etc.

It was also part of the commitment - it was a lot of hard cash.

Another interesting one - when they found that slave ships at auction were being bought by other slavers, they started burning or chopping them up. Instead of telling the RN crews "sorry, no prize money", the government paid for the prizes. Which was another serious pile of cash.

INdeed. And it made up somewhat for the loss of life to tropical disease.

BTW HMS Trincomalee now at Hartlepool (Nelson era tech) and HMS Gannet now at Chatham (1870s) both served on anti slavery duties at different times.

When I was at uni I came across a kind of diary in one of the second shops near the British museum.

It was a book of letters to and from a brother and his sisters. The brother been a teenage midshipman in the RN. The booked ended with a letter from the ships Captain, telling the story of his death at the hands of a slaver crew he was boarding with his boats crew - the boat had been on detached service from the ship itself.

There was a further letter, badly spelt and capitalised from a member of the boats crew - about how he'd been a good officer and everyone in the crew had liked him.

So when he was killed by a shot from the slaver they'd boarded the slaver and killed the entire crew. Including the ones trying to surrender.

FPT but too good a story not to say many thanks for it.

A fascinating story, and thanks both for the other info. Not to be a party pooper, but I don't really approve of summary executions of slavers either I'm afraid. Though it was probably a bit of a bugger to know what to do with them.

By firing on an RN vessel, even without killing anyone, they had opened hostilities.

Because they weren't a national ship, they would have thus classed themselves as pirates.

In theory, you could hang the whole crew, IIRC. After a trial....

Anabobazina

Never understood why we have a Team GB at the Olympics, when in every major team sport we compete as separate nations:

• Football
• Rugby Union
• Cricket
• Golf
• Netball
• Hockey (outside the Olympics)
• Rugby League

The list goes on...