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Wise words for Boris from former CON leader Hague – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited December 2021 in General
imageWise words for Boris from former CON leader Hague – politicalbetting.com

After a disastrous few weeks for he PM it is inevitable that there is a lot of speculation bout him being forced out something that is much easier under Tory party rules than with Labour. We have almost been seeing a negative story a day over the past week or so and a common theme is how he actually manages his affairs.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • 1sr
  • Seeing the darts clip....I can only imagine the number of COVID infections that are coming from that event. It ticks pretty much every box for a super spreader event. Packed in people in a hot closed room, regularly getting up to squeeze past people to queue to get drinks and constantly chanting and singing.....
  • 2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004

    Seeing the darts clip....I can only imagine the number of COVID infections that are coming from that event. It ticks pretty much every box for a super spreader event. Packed in people in a hot closed room, regularly getting up to squeeze past people to queue to get drinks and constantly chanting and singing.....

    So you want all life affirming fun banned and another painful puritan Christmas? 🙁

    I went to a get together with wider family in a pub tonight - I think owner and staff pleased it’s not a room and meals cancelled - and it was fun! It’s made me feel happy and alive. To be fair to what you are saying, it has been on my mind as I posted earlier, don’t like idea of family members dying of something because ambulances and hospitals all clogged up with covid victims, but how far to go to now in jabbed up Britain, what to destroy to flatten a predicted/not really predicted spike in hospital emissions? We have to believe in vaccines hype to do that at some point? Is that a fair argument?

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021

    Seeing the darts clip....I can only imagine the number of COVID infections that are coming from that event. It ticks pretty much every box for a super spreader event. Packed in people in a hot closed room, regularly getting up to squeeze past people to queue to get drinks and constantly chanting and singing.....

    So you want all life affirming fun banned and another painful puritan Christmas? 🙁

    I went to a get together with wider family in a pub tonight - I think owner and staff pleased it’s not a room and meals cancelled - and it was fun! It’s made me feel happy and alive. To be fair to what you are saying, it has been on my mind as I posted earlier, don’t like idea of family members dying of something because ambulances and hospitals all clogged up with covid victims, but how far to go to now in jabbed up Britain, what to destroy to flatten a predicted/not really predicted spike in hospital emissions? We have to believe in vaccines hype to do that at some point? Is that a fair argument?

    I didn't say that, just saying that I think its pretty obvious that will spread Omicron like crazy. I wouldn't go to something like the darts without being triple jabbed and fully aware of the risks, but that's just me. I am confident that the vaccines provide the level of protection for those of us outside of the vulnerable category.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281
    edited December 2021
    Trouble is. He rose to the top without an ideology or constituency.
    If you're a Thatcherite, Blairite, Brownite or Cameroon you are priced in.
    Just as you can scream abuse at OGS at Old Trafford. But will react with fury if an LFC or City fan does similar.
    Boris has no season ticket holders. It was always transactional pay at the turnstile stuff.
    The new material is bombing. Expect the Greatest Hits (Brexit and Vaccines) to stave off the bottles of piss.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    edited December 2021

    2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I would say many your erstwhile Boris supporters have never been comfortable with a fuck business agenda. Even thus morning after looking at The Daily Telegraph front page has Pubs and Restaurants £1.5B Xmas bill and braced for waves of bankruptcy - meanwhile the Governments positions is “no extra help because it isn’t a lockdown”.

    Surely they have engineered a lock down by stealth by cunningly not giving clarity one way or other? Is this the value set that has people voting Conservative all their lives?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,385

    2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I don't know how much of this applies to lots of people who voted for him - best of two poor choices.
  • 2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I would say many your erstwhile Boris supporters have never been comfortable with a fuck business agenda. Even thus morning after looking at The Daily Telegraph front page has Pubs and Restaurants £1.5B Xmas bill and braced for waves of bankruptcy - meanwhile the Governments positions is “no extra help because it isn’t a lockdown”.

    Surely they have engineered a lock down by stealth by cunningly not giving clarity one way or other? Is this the value set that has people voting Conservative all their lives?
    If you feck the small business community that, at least used to be, the absolute backbone of the conservative party then a reckoning is a coming.


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    It is easier to remove a Tory leader if they get a majority of Tory MPs to do so, while Labour needs a majority of members for an alternative too. However it is less easy to remove a Tory leader than it used to be. Thatcher for example would have survived in 1990 probably for at least another year as just over 50% of Tory MPs backed her, even if she would have lost a second round to Heseltine most likely under the old rules had she not pulled out
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    France presidential election 2022 runoff poll

    Macron 51%
    Pecresse 49%

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1473089792317472773?s=20
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004

    2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I would say many your erstwhile Boris supporters have never been comfortable with a fuck business agenda. Even thus morning after looking at The Daily Telegraph front page has Pubs and Restaurants £1.5B Xmas bill and braced for waves of bankruptcy - meanwhile the Governments positions is “no extra help because it isn’t a lockdown”.

    Surely they have engineered a lock down by stealth by cunningly not giving clarity one way or other? Is this the value set that has people voting Conservative all their lives?
    If you feck the small business community that, at least used to be, the absolute backbone of the conservative party then a reckoning is a coming.


    We agree. That bit of his platform always iffy hasnt it.

    Then again. Well my mum is definitely voting Boris and Conservative in tomorrow’s General election! I suggested she could switch to Reform and she said it would be a wasted vote like it would be 2019, it will let in “Lockdown Starmer” the socialist. Nothing else from the last month or so really registers with her when faced with that 😆
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281
    Boris' success is because he sits where the median voter sits. Like Blair or Cameron.
    Keep him and the Tories can win.
    Ditch him and someone profoundly unsuitable but ideologically sound will make the final two. And win at a canter.
    It'll be like electing Corbyn or IDS. But this time in government.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281

    2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I would say many your erstwhile Boris supporters have never been comfortable with a fuck business agenda. Even thus morning after looking at The Daily Telegraph front page has Pubs and Restaurants £1.5B Xmas bill and braced for waves of bankruptcy - meanwhile the Governments positions is “no extra help because it isn’t a lockdown”.

    Surely they have engineered a lock down by stealth by cunningly not giving clarity one way or other? Is this the value set that has people voting Conservative all their lives?
    If you feck the small business community that, at least used to be, the absolute backbone of the conservative party then a reckoning is a coming.


    We agree. That bit of his platform always iffy hasnt it.

    Then again. Well my mum is definitely voting Boris and Conservative in tomorrow’s General election! I suggested she could switch to Reform and she said it would be a wasted vote like it would be 2019, it will let in “Lockdown Starmer” the socialist. Nothing else from the last month or so really registers with her when faced with that 😆

    2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I would say many your erstwhile Boris supporters have never been comfortable with a fuck business agenda. Even thus morning after looking at The Daily Telegraph front page has Pubs and Restaurants £1.5B Xmas bill and braced for waves of bankruptcy - meanwhile the Governments positions is “no extra help because it isn’t a lockdown”.

    Surely they have engineered a lock down by stealth by cunningly not giving clarity one way or other? Is this the value set that has people voting Conservative all their lives?
    If you feck the small business community that, at least used to be, the absolute backbone of the conservative party then a reckoning is a coming.


    We agree. That bit of his platform always iffy hasnt it.

    Then again. Well my mum is definitely voting Boris and Conservative in tomorrow’s General election! I suggested she could switch to Reform and she said it would be a wasted vote like it would be 2019, it will let in “Lockdown Starmer” the socialist. Nothing else from the last month or so really registers with her when faced with that 😆
    I would gently suggest your Mother isn't representative.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004

    Seeing the darts clip....I can only imagine the number of COVID infections that are coming from that event. It ticks pretty much every box for a super spreader event. Packed in people in a hot closed room, regularly getting up to squeeze past people to queue to get drinks and constantly chanting and singing.....

    So you want all life affirming fun banned and another painful puritan Christmas? 🙁

    I went to a get together with wider family in a pub tonight - I think owner and staff pleased it’s not a room and meals cancelled - and it was fun! It’s made me feel happy and alive. To be fair to what you are saying, it has been on my mind as I posted earlier, don’t like idea of family members dying of something because ambulances and hospitals all clogged up with covid victims, but how far to go to now in jabbed up Britain, what to destroy to flatten a predicted/not really predicted spike in hospital emissions? We have to believe in vaccines hype to do that at some point? Is that a fair argument?

    I didn't say that, just saying that I think its pretty obvious that will spread Omicron like crazy. I wouldn't go to something like the darts without being triple jabbed and fully aware of the risks, but that's just me. I am confident that the vaccines provide the level of protection for those of us outside of the vulnerable category.
    I agree Francis. These covid times have been crazy. Covid feeds on the fact we are social animals, but we need to be to live. None of the calls from scientists and politicians right down to our own choices are black and white and obvious are they? People like the idea of flattening the curve saving NHS saving lives, but the measures to do that have costs and implications.

    In a way personally I’m glad this his happened to me in mid twenties not when I was younger and growing up and going to college. If feel for younger age groups when you quite fairly said “but that’s just me”.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004

    Seeing the darts clip....I can only imagine the number of COVID infections that are coming from that event. It ticks pretty much every box for a super spreader event. Packed in people in a hot closed room, regularly getting up to squeeze past people to queue to get drinks and constantly chanting and singing.....

    So you want all life affirming fun banned and another painful puritan Christmas? 🙁

    I went to a get together with wider family in a pub tonight - I think owner and staff pleased it’s not a room and meals cancelled - and it was fun! It’s made me feel happy and alive. To be fair to what you are saying, it has been on my mind as I posted earlier, don’t like idea of family members dying of something because ambulances and hospitals all clogged up with covid victims, but how far to go to now in jabbed up Britain, what to destroy to flatten a predicted/not really predicted spike in hospital emissions? We have to believe in vaccines hype to do that at some point? Is that a fair argument?

    This might be interesting for you. When I said out for dinner with wider family and friend, and it was fun or entertaining - maybe not quite in ways you would think.

    My Brother and Mother were soooooo Ghislaine Maxwell “how can you pay people for sex and then years later they complain about it and call you an abuser? This is woke madness. What’s the world coming too?”
    My other half (Conservative voter not woke loony) didn’t say a word but I anticipated she would launch into martial arts on them any moment. 😆

    Christmas and Boxing Day at my brothers is going to be fun too 😆
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    dixiedean said:

    2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I would say many your erstwhile Boris supporters have never been comfortable with a fuck business agenda. Even thus morning after looking at The Daily Telegraph front page has Pubs and Restaurants £1.5B Xmas bill and braced for waves of bankruptcy - meanwhile the Governments positions is “no extra help because it isn’t a lockdown”.

    Surely they have engineered a lock down by stealth by cunningly not giving clarity one way or other? Is this the value set that has people voting Conservative all their lives?
    If you feck the small business community that, at least used to be, the absolute backbone of the conservative party then a reckoning is a coming.


    We agree. That bit of his platform always iffy hasnt it.

    Then again. Well my mum is definitely voting Boris and Conservative in tomorrow’s General election! I suggested she could switch to Reform and she said it would be a wasted vote like it would be 2019, it will let in “Lockdown Starmer” the socialist. Nothing else from the last month or so really registers with her when faced with that 😆

    2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I would say many your erstwhile Boris supporters have never been comfortable with a fuck business agenda. Even thus morning after looking at The Daily Telegraph front page has Pubs and Restaurants £1.5B Xmas bill and braced for waves of bankruptcy - meanwhile the Governments positions is “no extra help because it isn’t a lockdown”.

    Surely they have engineered a lock down by stealth by cunningly not giving clarity one way or other? Is this the value set that has people voting Conservative all their lives?
    If you feck the small business community that, at least used to be, the absolute backbone of the conservative party then a reckoning is a coming.


    We agree. That bit of his platform always iffy hasnt it.

    Then again. Well my mum is definitely voting Boris and Conservative in tomorrow’s General election! I suggested she could switch to Reform and she said it would be a wasted vote like it would be 2019, it will let in “Lockdown Starmer” the socialist. Nothing else from the last month or so really registers with her when faced with that 😆
    I would gently suggest your Mother isn't representative.
    Are you sure? Look at the battering government taken. Mid term. Con +refUK 37%.

    Are you really sure?
  • New Zealand delays border reopening due to Omicron
  • 2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I want Boris gone but I don't feel I've been had.

    I had open eyes as to what Boris was when voting and I suspect many others did too.

    Instead I think Boris has been broken by Covid. It's destroyed him. He's lost his nerve, lost his bottle and is basically scared of every shadow now.
    Ditto. I think catching Covid destroyed him. Should have quit soon after.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    *On Topic

    There was some talk not so long ago of next May being a general election, have all those thoughts been binned now?

    But it was sensible in that it gets win out the way before all the bad news and pain on repairing the finances, tax increases, covid enquiries would come along and potentially put Conservative behind Labour in opinion polls? What does it mean for next election date now, a game of boxed in, trying to catch up in polls whilst time is running out?

    As Lib Dem voter, can’t wait, bring it on 🙂
  • U.S. COVID update: Surge accelerating

    - New cases: 268,307*
    - Average: 142,973 (+10,163)
    - States reporting: 48/50
    - In hospital: 67,191 (+326)
    - In ICU: 16,253 (+37)
    - New deaths: 1,756
    - Average: 1,342 (+27)

    *Excl MD backlog of 28,541 cases
  • 2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I want Boris gone but I don't feel I've been had.

    I had open eyes as to what Boris was when voting and I suspect many others did too.

    Instead I think Boris has been broken by Covid. It's destroyed him. He's lost his nerve, lost his bottle and is basically scared of every shadow now.
    Ditto. I think catching Covid destroyed him. Should have quit soon after.
    I'm not sure that he's really changed. It may just be that governing during a pandemic illuminated the mans character far better than 20 years in the public eye ever could.

    Not the best advert for our media class.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004

    1sr

    Five Points for a first!
    Subtracting ten points for not spelling it right! Random keyboard pressing to get first is contarary to the rules. 😆

    But I agree so much with you, Peppa Pig speech to the CBI when he appeared to have lost it completely. It’s important time with business, so much to come and listen to Prime Minister policy on - covid, ongoing Brexit ongoing trade issues, supply chains, inflation, energy costs, labour shortages. Plus of course important for fuck business Prime Minister to rebuild bridges between his party and business.

    I wonder when he didn’t see many hands go up for Peppa Pig World he realised it’s because he’s the oldest new Dad in the hall, not that the audience are ignorant of what a successful business looks like? Maybe in future they won’t call these moments Ceaușescu Moment but Peppa Pig Moment.

    However, the piss taking speech that day was mainly targeted at the business community. Boris earlier conference speech took the piss out of everyone in the country.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    *off topic *🐁

    Is it okay to go off topic and talk about covid for a moment?

    Having thought about it, the idea Omicron come to us from vaxxed up Lab mice, maybe it’s not such a crazy idea on the basis if something was going on like that, perhaps on international effort, it would have to be hush hush they couldn’t possibly be open about it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    edited December 2021
    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021
    More info on that massive leap in Omicron in the US...who did the modelling SAGE?

    Note that the 73% Omicron is a model-based estimate with a very wide uncertainty interval (35-95%), due to, I'm told, small numbers. (I haven't been able to find the raw data on the CDC site.) https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#variant-proportions

    https://twitter.com/reichlab/status/1473120158470352902?s=20
  • Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094

    More info on that massive leap in Omicron in the US...who did the modelling SAGE?

    Note that the 73% Omicron is a model-based estimate with a very wide uncertainty interval (35-95%), due to, I'm told, small numbers. (I haven't been able to find the raw data on the CDC site.) https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#variant-proportions

    https://twitter.com/reichlab/status/1473120158470352902?s=20

    It’s probably true, tho. Omicron in Alberta:


    ‘If we instead look strictly at daily cases (i.e. NOT averaged) & include the most recent data, this is what the chart looks like.

    Ten days ago, Omicron accounted for about 1% of new variant cases.

    Now, it's the majority.’

    https://twitter.com/cbcfletch/status/1473115259850297344?s=21
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,552
    edited December 2021
    HYUFD said:

    France presidential election 2022 runoff poll

    Macron 51%
    Pecresse 49%

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1473089792317472773?s=20

    Macron v Pecresse would be *extremely* close. I think the LR candidate would win... but nothing is certain.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021
    del
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,552

    *off topic *🐁

    Is it okay to go off topic and talk about covid for a moment?

    Having thought about it, the idea Omicron come to us from vaxxed up Lab mice, maybe it’s not such a crazy idea on the basis if something was going on like that, perhaps on international effort, it would have to be hush hush they couldn’t possibly be open about it?

    You are making the classic error of thinking that vaccines and antibiotics are similar.

    They are not. The most likely place to see a viral mutation is in an individual with an ongoing infection, where the human body (or other host) is churning out countless billions of copies of the virus, introducing the very high chance of a copying error (i.e. mutation).

    Remember: viruses need us to multiply. And the more multiplication the greater the chance of mutation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    edited December 2021

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Looks a code.....is very disappointed at what it is doing from a technical standpoint....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,552
    Omicron is slightly worse than influenza for the unvaccinated, like a heavy cold for the twice vaccinated, and walk in the park for those of us who have had our three jabs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave (say 2-3 weeks), it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance. From that chart alone, its still too early to tell.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave, it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance.
    Sure, but look at Denmark, and New York, and London, and Canada. It’s the same pattern. It is surely milder. And a lot of the hospital admissions are incidental. Robert Smithson Jr was right

    Question is: can it still crush health systems by sheer number of cases? Because it is also much more infectious
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,632
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    My God, it's almost like the small minority of posters (moonshine, NerysHughes, and a few others) who actually looked at the data from South Africa actually had a point.
    Do I count as one of the few others? iv metion SA a few times,

    Cases there are now falling for the while nation, by 5% last 7 days compared to previous 7 days.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,632
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave, it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance.
    Sure, but look at Denmark, and New York, and London, and Canada. It’s the same pattern. It is surely milder. And a lot of the hospital admissions are incidental. Robert Smithson Jr was right

    Question is: can it still crush health systems by sheer number of cases? Because it is also much more infectious
    If it cruses heath systems, it will be because of the large number of medical staff who have it themselves and are off sick, at one point a week or so back I believe 20%

    counter intuitive as this may sound the best approach might be to stop/reduce the amount of testing, and only be absent form work if you are showing symptoms, alternatively and slightly less radical, test every day you are off and return to work as soon as you have a negative test.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,552
    BigRich said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    My God, it's almost like the small minority of posters (moonshine, NerysHughes, and a few others) who actually looked at the data from South Africa actually had a point.
    Do I count as one of the few others? iv metion SA a few times,

    Cases there are now falling for the while nation, by 5% last 7 days compared to previous 7 days.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table
    Yes, you count.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    rcs1000 said:

    *off topic *🐁

    Is it okay to go off topic and talk about covid for a moment?

    Having thought about it, the idea Omicron come to us from vaxxed up Lab mice, maybe it’s not such a crazy idea on the basis if something was going on like that, perhaps on international effort, it would have to be hush hush they couldn’t possibly be open about it?

    You are making the classic error of thinking that vaccines and antibiotics are similar.

    They are not. The most likely place to see a viral mutation is in an individual with an ongoing infection, where the human body (or other host) is churning out countless billions of copies of the virus, introducing the very high chance of a copying error (i.e. mutation).

    Remember: viruses need us to multiply. And the more multiplication the greater the chance of mutation.
    * sorry to be off topic and talking covid

    I respect everything you say, and it’s fair enough to slap down Moon Rabbits Mouse Origin Omicron hypothesis theory thing, that variant was passaged in lab mice by a underground organisation of mammals fighting back against the reptiles trying to make us all hybrid humans - however, Omicron does have so many mutations that seem to indicate very strong pressure from prior immunity, so for a moment I was just like things that make you go hm?

    And when I was reading the bible the other day, there was a bit in Revelation that seemed to imply what mice giveth mice taketh away.

    PS I do hope you have sense of humour today and don’t ban me for pushing conspiracy theories. 😆
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave, it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance.
    Sure, but look at Denmark, and New York, and London, and Canada. It’s the same pattern. It is surely milder. And a lot of the hospital admissions are incidental. Robert Smithson Jr was right

    Question is: can it still crush health systems by sheer number of cases? Because it is also much more infectious
    Really really hoping it is milder version Leon, even if my mouse origin theory is debunked, scientists did say possible course for Covid-19 is it mutates itself into a cold type thing, and then one day we blow it out in a hanky and get on with life bothered less by it.

    But there is one note of caution though isn’t there? When new variants go on a wave, they spread first amongst the young and less likely to go into hospital possibly on to something worse, because this age group tend to be the most socially active.
  • The most important bit of Hague’s contribution is not the bit that Mike Smithson highlighted, but rather:

    - “… outstanding… new advisers…”

    Who are these people? Honestly. Please name them if they exist.

    The puppet PM needs a master puppeteer. At the moment the UK Government resembles a primary school class riddled with ADHD brats, attempting to put on a nativity play. Every single parent in the audience is cringing with their heads in their hands, wishing they had remembered their contraception that tipsy night a few years ago.

    This chaos is *never* going to end. Not until the electorate put the Tories out of government and out of their self-inflicted misery.

    The May local elections are going to be a bloodbath.
  • If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 939
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave, it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance.
    Sure, but look at Denmark, and New York, and London, and Canada. It’s the same pattern. It is surely milder. And a lot of the hospital admissions are incidental. Robert Smithson Jr was right

    Question is: can it still crush health systems by sheer number of cases? Because it is also much more infectious
    Is it milder inherently, or just because the countries and states mentioned have high immunity levels from vaccination drives or previous Delta spreads?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,139
    There's a great deal of reason to be hopeful on this Tuesday morning. :)

    How I like that.
  • Outstanding article by Denis MacShane (Minister of State for Europe, 2002-2005) in the Independent. Many fine insights, not least how Scottish exports are screwed by their association with the British state.

    ‘What happened to the amiable, hard-working David Frost I once knew?’
    - Frost has finally learnt what decades of Foreign Office experience can never teach – that politics is not diplomacy and there is no loyalty at the top of state power

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lord-frost-resignation-boris-johnson-brexit-b1979292.html
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,756
    Latest video from Dr John Campbell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdVymGK3OzM
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,074

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,074

    Outstanding article by Denis MacShane (Minister of State for Europe, 2002-2005) in the Independent. Many fine insights, not least how Scottish exports are screwed by their association with the British state.

    ‘What happened to the amiable, hard-working David Frost I once knew?’
    - Frost has finally learnt what decades of Foreign Office experience can never teach – that politics is not diplomacy and there is no loyalty at the top of state power

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lord-frost-resignation-boris-johnson-brexit-b1979292.html

    This is the same Denis McShame who ignored the ‘problem’ in Rotherham for a couple of decades, and finished his political career with four months in Belmarsh for £12k of expenses fraud?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,094
    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    You don’t get it. People are pissed off with his hypocrisy and general incompetence. One rule for us , several rules for you depending on which ever way the wind blows doesn’t appear to go down well. Your argument that in some way people should be grateful marks you out as somewhat out of touch.
  • Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,257



    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships

    They are shouting Boo-urns.



  • Sandpit said:

    Outstanding article by Denis MacShane (Minister of State for Europe, 2002-2005) in the Independent. Many fine insights, not least how Scottish exports are screwed by their association with the British state.

    ‘What happened to the amiable, hard-working David Frost I once knew?’
    - Frost has finally learnt what decades of Foreign Office experience can never teach – that politics is not diplomacy and there is no loyalty at the top of state power

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lord-frost-resignation-boris-johnson-brexit-b1979292.html

    This is the same Denis McShame who ignored the ‘problem’ in Rotherham for a couple of decades, and finished his political career with four months in Belmarsh for £12k of expenses fraud?
    Please note that the career of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is not yet over. We’ll see if Belmarsh features in his obit.

    Lying to the monarch was a pretty serious offence. There are many, many others. Let’s just see what comes to light.
  • Dura_Ace said:



    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships

    They are shouting Boo-urns.
    Ah, good old Mr Burns. My favourite Scottish character in The Simpsons.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,074

    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
    I’ve never been a fan of Boris Johnson, but he was a necessary part of getting something that looked like Brexit through.

    Happy to see him replaced in the new year - unless he can quickly steady the ship with a new Cummings, there will be a rout in the local elections which will likely be the trigger.

    I do laugh at all the people shouting about the PM at an event, unaware of the irony that if the other lot were in charge it would be being held behind closed doors.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,334
    Andy_JS said:

    Latest video from Dr John Campbell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdVymGK3OzM

    *not a medical doctor
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,756
    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest video from Dr John Campbell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdVymGK3OzM

    *not a medical doctor
    He has a doctorate in nursing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
    I’ve never been a fan of Boris Johnson, but he was a necessary part of getting something that looked like Brexit through.

    Happy to see him replaced in the new year - unless he can quickly steady the ship with a new Cummings, there will be a rout in the local elections which will likely be the trigger.

    I do laugh at all the people shouting about the PM at an event, unaware of the irony that if the other lot were in charge it would be being held behind closed doors.
    Cummings never steadied any ship. All his qualities were essentially destructive.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,552
    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave, it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance.
    Sure, but look at Denmark, and New York, and London, and Canada. It’s the same pattern. It is surely milder. And a lot of the hospital admissions are incidental. Robert Smithson Jr was right

    Question is: can it still crush health systems by sheer number of cases? Because it is also much more infectious
    Is it milder inherently, or just because the countries and states mentioned have high immunity levels from vaccination drives or previous Delta spreads?
    The key here is that Omicron is a disease (principally) of the upper respiratory tract, and not the lower and lungs. (See the University of Hong Kong study here.

    This means that - sure - it might evade vaccines and prior infection to a significant extent. But it is nowhere near as dangerous to us. It's a cough. It's congestion. It's a head cold. It's deeply unpleasant.

    But it doesn't affect - very much - our ability to breath.

    This is why the numbers from South Africa for those on mechanical ventilation are less than one tenth the levels of previous waves.

    Now, I'm not going to go out and say "it's just the common cold". It's not. If you're not vaccinated, it's a really serious infection that can really mess you up. But if you combine the fact that it is not (primarily) attacking your lungs, and the fact that vaccines prime your immune system against it (especially with three jabs), then it's really rather manageable.

    And yeah, we're probably going to have a rough couple of weeks, because it's so infectious, but it's also going to sweep the population in about six weeks. Doing damage to hospitality, and to the numbers on call in hospitals and the like, and it's going to be shit.

    But it's not an existential threat.

    It's a pain. But it's not going to kill hundreds of thousands, or lead to hospitals overflowing. It's simply not that bad.

    We know that now. First we had South Africa. Then Denmark, and Alberta, and New York. Nowhere - I repeat nowhere - is seeing an experience anywhere near as bad as Original (TM) Covid or Delta.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,074
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
    I’ve never been a fan of Boris Johnson, but he was a necessary part of getting something that looked like Brexit through.

    Happy to see him replaced in the new year - unless he can quickly steady the ship with a new Cummings, there will be a rout in the local elections which will likely be the trigger.

    I do laugh at all the people shouting about the PM at an event, unaware of the irony that if the other lot were in charge it would be being held behind closed doors.
    Cummings never steadied any ship. All his qualities were essentially destructive.
    The issue is, that Cummings’ departure has left a massive hole where there needs to be someone actually running the show in No.10.

    The problem, as discussed a couple of days ago, is that no-one who’s going to be any good wants the job - because of the wife. How do you solve a problem like Carrie?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,756
    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave, it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance.
    Sure, but look at Denmark, and New York, and London, and Canada. It’s the same pattern. It is surely milder. And a lot of the hospital admissions are incidental. Robert Smithson Jr was right

    Question is: can it still crush health systems by sheer number of cases? Because it is also much more infectious
    Is it milder inherently, or just because the countries and states mentioned have high immunity levels from vaccination drives or previous Delta spreads?
    The key here is that Omicron is a disease (principally) of the upper respiratory tract, and not the lower and lungs. (See the University of Hong Kong study here.

    This means that - sure - it might evade vaccines and prior infection to a significant extent. But it is nowhere near as dangerous to us. It's a cough. It's congestion. It's a head cold. It's deeply unpleasant.

    But it doesn't affect - very much - our ability to breath.

    This is why the numbers from South Africa for those on mechanical ventilation are less than one tenth the levels of previous waves.

    Now, I'm not going to go out and say "it's just the common cold". It's not. If you're not vaccinated, it's a really serious infection that can really mess you up. But if you combine the fact that it is not (primarily) attacking your lungs, and the fact that vaccines prime your immune system against it (especially with three jabs), then it's really rather manageable.

    And yeah, we're probably going to have a rough couple of weeks, because it's so infectious, but it's also going to sweep the population in about six weeks. Doing damage to hospitality, and to the numbers on call in hospitals and the like, and it's going to be shit.

    But it's not an existential threat.

    It's a pain. But it's not going to kill hundreds of thousands, or lead to hospitals overflowing. It's simply not that bad.

    We know that now. First we had South Africa. Then Denmark, and Alberta, and New York. Nowhere - I repeat nowhere - is seeing an experience anywhere near as bad as Original (TM) Covid or Delta.
    And will it also wipe out the existing variants like Delta?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,552
    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave, it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance.
    Sure, but look at Denmark, and New York, and London, and Canada. It’s the same pattern. It is surely milder. And a lot of the hospital admissions are incidental. Robert Smithson Jr was right

    Question is: can it still crush health systems by sheer number of cases? Because it is also much more infectious
    Is it milder inherently, or just because the countries and states mentioned have high immunity levels from vaccination drives or previous Delta spreads?
    The key here is that Omicron is a disease (principally) of the upper respiratory tract, and not the lower and lungs. (See the University of Hong Kong study here.

    This means that - sure - it might evade vaccines and prior infection to a significant extent. But it is nowhere near as dangerous to us. It's a cough. It's congestion. It's a head cold. It's deeply unpleasant.

    But it doesn't affect - very much - our ability to breath.

    This is why the numbers from South Africa for those on mechanical ventilation are less than one tenth the levels of previous waves.

    Now, I'm not going to go out and say "it's just the common cold". It's not. If you're not vaccinated, it's a really serious infection that can really mess you up. But if you combine the fact that it is not (primarily) attacking your lungs, and the fact that vaccines prime your immune system against it (especially with three jabs), then it's really rather manageable.

    And yeah, we're probably going to have a rough couple of weeks, because it's so infectious, but it's also going to sweep the population in about six weeks. Doing damage to hospitality, and to the numbers on call in hospitals and the like, and it's going to be shit.

    But it's not an existential threat.

    It's a pain. But it's not going to kill hundreds of thousands, or lead to hospitals overflowing. It's simply not that bad.

    We know that now. First we had South Africa. Then Denmark, and Alberta, and New York. Nowhere - I repeat nowhere - is seeing an experience anywhere near as bad as Original (TM) Covid or Delta.
    And will it also wipe out the existing variants like Delta?
    That's a great question, and I don't know the answer.

    THAT SAID: three jabs is *really* effective against Delta. And we're all going that way anyway. So we may simply never know.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,139
    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave, it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance.
    Sure, but look at Denmark, and New York, and London, and Canada. It’s the same pattern. It is surely milder. And a lot of the hospital admissions are incidental. Robert Smithson Jr was right

    Question is: can it still crush health systems by sheer number of cases? Because it is also much more infectious
    Is it milder inherently, or just because the countries and states mentioned have high immunity levels from vaccination drives or previous Delta spreads?
    The key here is that Omicron is a disease (principally) of the upper respiratory tract, and not the lower and lungs. (See the University of Hong Kong study here.

    This means that - sure - it might evade vaccines and prior infection to a significant extent. But it is nowhere near as dangerous to us. It's a cough. It's congestion. It's a head cold. It's deeply unpleasant.

    But it doesn't affect - very much - our ability to breath.

    This is why the numbers from South Africa for those on mechanical ventilation are less than one tenth the levels of previous waves.

    Now, I'm not going to go out and say "it's just the common cold". It's not. If you're not vaccinated, it's a really serious infection that can really mess you up. But if you combine the fact that it is not (primarily) attacking your lungs, and the fact that vaccines prime your immune system against it (especially with three jabs), then it's really rather manageable.

    And yeah, we're probably going to have a rough couple of weeks, because it's so infectious, but it's also going to sweep the population in about six weeks. Doing damage to hospitality, and to the numbers on call in hospitals and the like, and it's going to be shit.

    But it's not an existential threat.

    It's a pain. But it's not going to kill hundreds of thousands, or lead to hospitals overflowing. It's simply not that bad.

    We know that now. First we had South Africa. Then Denmark, and Alberta, and New York. Nowhere - I repeat nowhere - is seeing an experience anywhere near as bad as Original (TM) Covid or Delta.
    And will it also wipe out the existing variants like Delta?
    From what I've read, it did in the SA provinces that were worst hit. And (as of a few days ago, from Campbell's feed) there are signs it is in London as well.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,069
    edited December 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
    I’ve never been a fan of Boris Johnson, but he was a necessary part of getting something that looked like Brexit through.

    Happy to see him replaced in the new year - unless he can quickly steady the ship with a new Cummings, there will be a rout in the local elections which will likely be the trigger.

    I do laugh at all the people shouting about the PM at an event, unaware of the irony that if the other lot were in charge it would be being held behind closed doors.
    Cummings never steadied any ship. All his qualities were essentially destructive.
    I think, in fairness, that even he would agree with that. He regards himself as an iconoclast, shaking up the crusty old ways of the stodgy state and other institutions. Which made him a provocative and interesting ideas man but a truly crap manager.

    What Boris needs, indeed has always needed, is a self effacing CEO who can deal with most of the hard work of government and provide a sense of order while Boris continues to build the Coalitions that make it possible to deliver and works as a front man. He needs a Peter Mandelson who brought some order to the chaos created by Gordon Brown or the enforcer that Osborne was for Cameron. The problem is that I am not seeing anyone like that in politics right now in either of our main parties. I know that I am in a minority here in thinking that there is a fair bit of talent in this government along with quite a lot of dross but self-effacing? None of them seem to be up for that.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,334
    Andy_JS said:

    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest video from Dr John Campbell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdVymGK3OzM

    *not a medical doctor
    He has a doctorate in nursing.
    Does that make him a medical doctor? I would have thought no. And is that a particularly relevant PhD for the things he is talking about? Just find it a bit misleading for him to use "Dr" in the circumstances.

    He was promoting hydroxychloroquine in at least one video I saw last year, and apparently ivermectin more recently, so I find him generally a bit suspect.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,074

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave, it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance.
    Sure, but look at Denmark, and New York, and London, and Canada. It’s the same pattern. It is surely milder. And a lot of the hospital admissions are incidental. Robert Smithson Jr was right

    Question is: can it still crush health systems by sheer number of cases? Because it is also much more infectious
    Is it milder inherently, or just because the countries and states mentioned have high immunity levels from vaccination drives or previous Delta spreads?
    The key here is that Omicron is a disease (principally) of the upper respiratory tract, and not the lower and lungs. (See the University of Hong Kong study here.

    This means that - sure - it might evade vaccines and prior infection to a significant extent. But it is nowhere near as dangerous to us. It's a cough. It's congestion. It's a head cold. It's deeply unpleasant.

    But it doesn't affect - very much - our ability to breath.

    This is why the numbers from South Africa for those on mechanical ventilation are less than one tenth the levels of previous waves.

    Now, I'm not going to go out and say "it's just the common cold". It's not. If you're not vaccinated, it's a really serious infection that can really mess you up. But if you combine the fact that it is not (primarily) attacking your lungs, and the fact that vaccines prime your immune system against it (especially with three jabs), then it's really rather manageable.

    And yeah, we're probably going to have a rough couple of weeks, because it's so infectious, but it's also going to sweep the population in about six weeks. Doing damage to hospitality, and to the numbers on call in hospitals and the like, and it's going to be shit.

    But it's not an existential threat.

    It's a pain. But it's not going to kill hundreds of thousands, or lead to hospitals overflowing. It's simply not that bad.

    We know that now. First we had South Africa. Then Denmark, and Alberta, and New York. Nowhere - I repeat nowhere - is seeing an experience anywhere near as bad as Original (TM) Covid or Delta.
    And will it also wipe out the existing variants like Delta?
    From what I've read, it did in the SA provinces that were worst hit. And (as of a few days ago, from Campbell's feed) there are signs it is in London as well.
    Which, in theory, means the more dangerous Delta will be quickly squashed out by Omicron.

    Possibly the best news of the whole pandemic, would be that it’s mutated into something not much worse than winter influenza, yet the vaccines are still effective against serious illness.

    (25 hours after booster Pfizer, still feel nothing apart from a slight sore arm).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,139
    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest video from Dr John Campbell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdVymGK3OzM

    *not a medical doctor
    Indeed. But he sure as heck seems to know his stuff.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Campbells-Physiology-Notes-John-Campbell/dp/0955379725
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0056NOYOE/

    His two books are also available as a free-to-download PDF. I just cannot find a linkie atm.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    dixiedean said:

    2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I would say many your erstwhile Boris supporters have never been comfortable with a fuck business agenda. Even thus morning after looking at The Daily Telegraph front page has Pubs and Restaurants £1.5B Xmas bill and braced for waves of bankruptcy - meanwhile the Governments positions is “no extra help because it isn’t a lockdown”.

    Surely they have engineered a lock down by stealth by cunningly not giving clarity one way or other? Is this the value set that has people voting Conservative all their lives?
    If you feck the small business community that, at least used to be, the absolute backbone of the conservative party then a reckoning is a coming.


    We agree. That bit of his platform always iffy hasnt it.

    Then again. Well my mum is definitely voting Boris and Conservative in tomorrow’s General election! I suggested she could switch to Reform and she said it would be a wasted vote like it would be 2019, it will let in “Lockdown Starmer” the socialist. Nothing else from the last month or so really registers with her when faced with that 😆

    2nd. It was always going to end with his erstwhile supporters and fans finding they have a cold fury when they realise they have been monumentally had.

    If all you have is magician's tricks and lies, eventually the curtain falls away.

    I would say many your erstwhile Boris supporters have never been comfortable with a fuck business agenda. Even thus morning after looking at The Daily Telegraph front page has Pubs and Restaurants £1.5B Xmas bill and braced for waves of bankruptcy - meanwhile the Governments positions is “no extra help because it isn’t a lockdown”.

    Surely they have engineered a lock down by stealth by cunningly not giving clarity one way or other? Is this the value set that has people voting Conservative all their lives?
    If you feck the small business community that, at least used to be, the absolute backbone of the conservative party then a reckoning is a coming.


    We agree. That bit of his platform always iffy hasnt it.

    Then again. Well my mum is definitely voting Boris and Conservative in tomorrow’s General election! I suggested she could switch to Reform and she said it would be a wasted vote like it would be 2019, it will let in “Lockdown Starmer” the socialist. Nothing else from the last month or so really registers with her when faced with that 😆
    I would gently suggest your Mother isn't representative.
    Mother’s never are. Yet, in the end, most of us have either adopted their views or specifically reacted against them.
  • Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
    I’ve never been a fan of Boris Johnson, but he was a necessary part of getting something that looked like Brexit through.

    Happy to see him replaced in the new year - unless he can quickly steady the ship with a new Cummings, there will be a rout in the local elections which will likely be the trigger.

    I do laugh at all the people shouting about the PM at an event, unaware of the irony that if the other lot were in charge it would be being held behind closed doors.
    Cummings never steadied any ship. All his qualities were essentially destructive.
    The issue is, that Cummings’ departure has left a massive hole where there needs to be someone actually running the show in No.10.

    The problem, as discussed a couple of days ago, is that no-one who’s going to be any good wants the job - because of the wife. How do you solve a problem like Carrie?

    If the PM's wife has too much influence that's the PM's fault, not the wife's.

  • If Omicron is likely to be far less dangerous and is going to rip through the population in relatively quick time, why not put in place measures to mitigate the potentially disastrous effects of a surge in cases?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,074
    edited December 2021

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
    I’ve never been a fan of Boris Johnson, but he was a necessary part of getting something that looked like Brexit through.

    Happy to see him replaced in the new year - unless he can quickly steady the ship with a new Cummings, there will be a rout in the local elections which will likely be the trigger.

    I do laugh at all the people shouting about the PM at an event, unaware of the irony that if the other lot were in charge it would be being held behind closed doors.
    Cummings never steadied any ship. All his qualities were essentially destructive.
    The issue is, that Cummings’ departure has left a massive hole where there needs to be someone actually running the show in No.10.

    The problem, as discussed a couple of days ago, is that no-one who’s going to be any good wants the job - because of the wife. How do you solve a problem like Carrie?
    If the PM's wife has too much influence that's the PM's fault, not the wife's.
    Very much so. That she used to work in communications for the party office, and knows everyone around government, is a huge problem for the PM, and one of his own making.

    He doesn’t dare give her a formal job, for which she is under-qualified and unsackable, and he doesn’t dare tell her to butt out of government business rather than hang around the office most of the day. Which leaves the middle way, where she is a distraction to everyone, and no-one actually wants the senior job of running the office.

    I’ve worked in a company like this before, where the boss’s wife would walk around but no-one actually reported to her - and it made for a terrible atmosphere.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,069
    What I think is reasonably clear is:
    * we are going to see in the next fortnight a peak of cases higher than anything we have ever seen or even thought was possible. Whether we lockdown, wear masks, whatever is going to make minimal difference to that. Omicron is just too infectious.
    * This is likely to lead to a very large number of hospitalisations at once, most often in our 5m unvaccinated but also in a small percentage but large number of those with some vaccination protection.
    * We are also going to suffer serious economic disruption through policies of isolation for those infected. As a simple example courts are really struggling to complete jury trials at the moment but more generally all businesses are going to have staff problems, especially if their staff cannot work from home.
    *There are good prospects that this wave will peak very quickly, probably within 2 weeks, and then fall away sharply. It seems unlikely now that there will be a very large number of deaths connected with it but we should not be too sanguine about that yet.

    If this comes about things may start to look a bit better for the government and for Boris by early January. But the need for message discipline and a sense of purpose will remain.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
    I’ve never been a fan of Boris Johnson, but he was a necessary part of getting something that looked like Brexit through.

    Happy to see him replaced in the new year - unless he can quickly steady the ship with a new Cummings, there will be a rout in the local elections which will likely be the trigger.

    I do laugh at all the people shouting about the PM at an event, unaware of the irony that if the other lot were in charge it would be being held behind closed doors.
    Cummings never steadied any ship. All his qualities were essentially destructive.
    The issue is, that Cummings’ departure has left a massive hole where there needs to be someone actually running the show in No.10.

    The problem, as discussed a couple of days ago, is that no-one who’s going to be any good wants the job - because of the wife. How do you solve a problem like Carrie?
    If the PM's wife has too much influence that's the PM's fault, not the wife's.
    Very much so. That she used to work in communications for the party office, and knows everyone around government, is a huge problem for the PM, and one of his own making.

    He doesn’t dare give her a formal job, for which she is under-qualified and unsackable, and he doesn’t dare tell her to butt out of government business rather than hang around the office most of the day. Which leaves the middle way, where she is a distraction to everyone, and no-one actually wants the senior job of running the office.

    I’ve worked in a company like this before, where the boss’s wife would walk around but no-one actually reported to her - and it made for a terrible atmosphere.

    The way round it is to spend the time and effort creating systems that mean she cannot get in the way. Unfortunately, it's just the kind of thing that Johnson would never be arsed to do as it's too much like hard work.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    ohhh I machine learning model....with public code....ohhhh....twiddles thumbs....
    SA deaths and cases

    ‘Highly encouraging regarding Omicron.’

    https://twitter.com/rwmalonemd/status/1473060295232925699?s=21

    I’m not popping the Bollinger, but it’s worth a cautious Christmas beer. Same pattern everywhere, so far…

    Edit: I realize I am citing an anti-vaxxer here, but the data is legit, I think
    That illustration is a bit misleading or rather bit of an optical illusion. Your eyes are draw to compare the massive spikes and where the deaths level at that stage. But big O is obviously massively more transmissible, so the ramp up of cases is much faster in days.

    If you compare number of days from the start of the wave, it certainly not as large, but not as significant a difference as you might think that you see on first glance.
    Sure, but look at Denmark, and New York, and London, and Canada. It’s the same pattern. It is surely milder. And a lot of the hospital admissions are incidental. Robert Smithson Jr was right

    Question is: can it still crush health systems by sheer number of cases? Because it is also much more infectious
    Is it milder inherently, or just because the countries and states mentioned have high immunity levels from vaccination drives or previous Delta spreads?
    The key here is that Omicron is a disease (principally) of the upper respiratory tract, and not the lower and lungs. (See the University of Hong Kong study here.

    This means that - sure - it might evade vaccines and prior infection to a significant extent. But it is nowhere near as dangerous to us. It's a cough. It's congestion. It's a head cold. It's deeply unpleasant.

    But it doesn't affect - very much - our ability to breath.

    This is why the numbers from South Africa for those on mechanical ventilation are less than one tenth the levels of previous waves.

    Now, I'm not going to go out and say "it's just the common cold". It's not. If you're not vaccinated, it's a really serious infection that can really mess you up. But if you combine the fact that it is not (primarily) attacking your lungs, and the fact that vaccines prime your immune system against it (especially with three jabs), then it's really rather manageable.

    And yeah, we're probably going to have a rough couple of weeks, because it's so infectious, but it's also going to sweep the population in about six weeks. Doing damage to hospitality, and to the numbers on call in hospitals and the like, and it's going to be shit.

    But it's not an existential threat.

    It's a pain. But it's not going to kill hundreds of thousands, or lead to hospitals overflowing. It's simply not that bad.

    We know that now. First we had South Africa. Then Denmark, and Alberta, and New York. Nowhere - I repeat nowhere - is seeing an experience anywhere near as bad as Original (TM) Covid or Delta.
    That’s what I have been saying for a while now. There’s bad news simply because the peak will come quickly and a lot of health staff will be off work. Otherwise, the news is good, and this very fast, peaked wave will with any luck be the end of covid as a ‘thing’ that dominates public policy and the news agenda. A path back to normal life, possibly by early spring, is now in sight.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    London’s streets deserted: restaurants and pubs empty. The gulf between the people, mindful of the danger of Omicron, and our real governors - Graham Brady and the 1922 committee garnering letters for the next Tory regicide - could not be wider or deeper.
    https://twitter.com/williamnhutton/status/1473079464045297668
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,139

    If Omicron is likely to be far less dangerous and is going to rip through the population in relatively quick time, why not put in place measures to mitigate the potentially disastrous effects of a surge in cases?

    The issue with omicron is that we're partially sighted people trying to navigate a maze in the fog during a solar eclipse after a SeanT-inspired session on Ayahuasca.

    We can discern things: but we cannot tell if what we're seeing is real, or some artefact. We need time to see if they are real and what that means, but time is the one thing we don't have if the answer is bad.

    There is some reason to be hopeful, though.

    One of the things we don't know - and need time to know - is whether the stricter measures put in place by the devolved administrations, or the lockdown in Holland, makes much difference to the spread of Omicron. Or whether people will follow stricter measures anyway - going by some of the people on here, they won't - but PB has rarely been typical of the population as a whole...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321

    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest video from Dr John Campbell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdVymGK3OzM

    *not a medical doctor
    Indeed. But he sure as heck seems to know his stuff.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Campbells-Physiology-Notes-John-Campbell/dp/0955379725
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0056NOYOE/

    His two books are also available as a free-to-download PDF. I just cannot find a linkie atm.
    He is an outstanding communicator and trainer. So long as he is holding the correct end of the stick (which, with perhaps only a couple of exceptions, he seems to have been) then he is excellent value.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
    I’ve never been a fan of Boris Johnson, but he was a necessary part of getting something that looked like Brexit through.

    Happy to see him replaced in the new year - unless he can quickly steady the ship with a new Cummings, there will be a rout in the local elections which will likely be the trigger.

    I do laugh at all the people shouting about the PM at an event, unaware of the irony that if the other lot were in charge it would be being held behind closed doors.
    Cummings never steadied any ship. All his qualities were essentially destructive.
    The issue is, that Cummings’ departure has left a massive hole where there needs to be someone actually running the show in No.10.

    The problem, as discussed a couple of days ago, is that no-one who’s going to be any good wants the job - because of the wife. How do you solve a problem like Carrie?
    Cummings wasn't running the show. He was just sashaying around talking about how brilliant he was and bullying everyone who pointed out he didn't have a clue what was going on. That's even before we get on to the allegations of physical violence and theft.

    I agree Johnson needs somebody capable and intelligent managing the operation, but that's something he's never had. Not something that went with Cummings.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    Whereas Leon told us Omicron would be the end of times and took the news as an opportunity to re-visit his ‘millions of dead’ routine….
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
    I’ve never been a fan of Boris Johnson, but he was a necessary part of getting something that looked like Brexit through.

    Happy to see him replaced in the new year - unless he can quickly steady the ship with a new Cummings, there will be a rout in the local elections which will likely be the trigger.

    I do laugh at all the people shouting about the PM at an event, unaware of the irony that if the other lot were in charge it would be being held behind closed doors.
    Cummings never steadied any ship. All his qualities were essentially destructive.
    The issue is, that Cummings’ departure has left a massive hole where there needs to be someone actually running the show in No.10.

    The problem, as discussed a couple of days ago, is that no-one who’s going to be any good wants the job - because of the wife. How do you solve a problem like Carrie?
    Cummings wasn't running the show. He was just sashaying around talking about how brilliant he was and bullying everyone who pointed out he didn't have a clue what was going on. That's even before we get on to the allegations of physical violence and theft.

    I agree Johnson needs somebody capable and intelligent managing the operation, but that's something he's never had. Not something that went with Cummings.
    Cummings is an extreme example of a relatively common phenomenon - someone with the skills to identify what is wrong, without the skills to make any of it come right.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    Electricity generated form gas at 62% already even at this early hour.

    Going to be another brutal day for energy companies.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    edited December 2021
    Meanwhile in America…. Donald Trump revealed he received a booster shot of the Covid-19 vaccine, drawing boos from a crowd of his supporters in Dallas.

    It was good of him (or her) upstairs to lay on this global case study to demonstrate the foolishness of excess religiosity and alt-right conspiracy thinking; only, it doesn’t seem to be working…..
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 3,482
    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest video from Dr John Campbell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdVymGK3OzM

    *not a medical doctor
    He has a doctorate in nursing.
    Does that make him a medical doctor? I would have thought no. And is that a particularly relevant PhD for the things he is talking about? Just find it a bit misleading for him to use "Dr" in the circumstances.

    He was promoting hydroxychloroquine in at least one video I saw last year, and apparently ivermectin more recently, so I find him generally a bit suspect.
    Have watched a few of his videos recently. He is largely collating case and hospital stats and drawing attention to peer reviewed studies and lab results. He’s perfectly well qualified to do that.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The latest from Denmark and #omicron.
    It appears omicron is associated with less hospitalizations compared to #delta
    Currently there’s less than 5 pts admitted to ICU. Population of 6 million.
    3.5 weeks in.’

    https://twitter.com/kwadwo777/status/1473044781999738891?s=21

    Same pattern as Ontario and SA. Many more cases, far fewer deaths and hospitalisations

    We should know more for the UK later today.
    The same pattern can now be seen in SA, NYC, Denmark, Ontario, and Alberta. Much less lethality

    And the UK?

    ‘Some clever - and sophisticated - analyses indicating that the Omicron wave may be significantly milder than all previous ones, also in the UK (i.e. London). For the first time during the pandemic, there is a clear 'decorrelation' between case numbers and hospital admissions.’

    https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1473084995145240578?s=21
    Interesting that he was speaking to the Health Secretary yesterday.

    I wonder if he was able to talk some sense into Javid and that helped with the Cabinet?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,756
    edited December 2021
    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest video from Dr John Campbell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdVymGK3OzM

    *not a medical doctor
    He has a doctorate in nursing.
    Does that make him a medical doctor? I would have thought no. And is that a particularly relevant PhD for the things he is talking about? Just find it a bit misleading for him to use "Dr" in the circumstances.

    He was promoting hydroxychloroquine in at least one video I saw last year, and apparently ivermectin more recently, so I find him generally a bit suspect.
    I didn't say it did make him a medical doctor. My cousin has recently qualified as a medical doctor but I'm pretty sure she doesn't know as much about these subjects as John Campbell does.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,074
    edited December 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in America…. Donald Trump revealed he received a booster shot of the Covid-19 vaccine, drawing boos from a crowd of his supporters in Dallas.

    It was good of him (or her) upstairs to lay on this global case study to demonstrate the foolishness of excess religiosity and alt-right conspiracy thinking; only, it doesn’t seem to be working…..

    Whatever else we may all think of Donald J Trump, at least he’s doing his bit in trying to encourage vaccine take-up among groups that have been sceptical. He knew he was going to get booed, but still said it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    If Omicron is likely to be far less dangerous and is going to rip through the population in relatively quick time, why not put in place measures to mitigate the potentially disastrous effects of a surge in cases?

    Because they are not cost free
  • Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in America…. Donald Trump revealed he received a booster shot of the Covid-19 vaccine, drawing boos from a crowd of his supporters in Dallas.

    It was good of him (or her) upstairs to lay on this global case study to demonstrate the foolishness of excess religiosity and alt-right conspiracy thinking; only, it doesn’t seem to be working…..

    Whatever else we may all think of Donald J Trump, at least he’s doing his bit in trying to encourage vaccine take-up among groups that have been sceptical. He knew he was going to get booed, but still said it.
    Hardly. He said beforehand that he probably wouldn't get the booster and then did it quietly in private. The only reason he mentioned it was to try and take credit for the vaccine.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    ...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,257
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in America…. Donald Trump revealed he received a booster shot of the Covid-19 vaccine, drawing boos from a crowd of his supporters in Dallas.

    It was good of him (or her) upstairs to lay on this global case study to demonstrate the foolishness of excess religiosity and alt-right conspiracy thinking; only, it doesn’t seem to be working…..

    Whatever else we may all think of Donald J Trump, at least he’s doing his bit in trying to encourage vaccine take-up among groups that have been sceptical. He knew he was going to get booed, but still said it.
    Pure self-interest. Comrade Covid is scything through his fat, old core vote.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,869

    If Omicron is likely to be far less dangerous and is going to rip through the population in relatively quick time, why not put in place measures to mitigate the potentially disastrous effects of a surge in cases?

    We have been asked to put together plans for staff absences of up to 50% that keep normal services running. I don't think they will be that high, but quite obviously that isn't a reasonable objective, particularly with 3 days to go until the holidays.

    On the other hand, staff have been given free tickets for A Chorus Line at the theatre.
  • Morning all! Another day, another opportunity for the Tories to compound the case against Boris. As bad as the Number 10 garden party pissup photos went down, it got worse when they sent Dominic "has anyone seen my brain" Raab out to firmly deny what people with eyes and brain already knew.

    There is a cognitive dissonance amongst the last remaining Peppa apologists. They have denied every single one of these events as being damaging - even saying "good speech" to the CBI. And again over the garden party.

    So here we are. Ally Pally - classic 2019 Tory voter territory - chanting "Stand up if you Hate Boris". He is done - the only question is how fast they go for him.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    If you thought the arrogance, incompetence, selfishness, laziness and entitlement of the Prime Minister was only a Westminster Bubble story, then here is the definitive proof that you are 100% wrong. You don’t get better cut-through than this nowadays:

    Daily Mail (yes, Daily Mail) headline:

    - “He's lost the room! Darts fans sing 'Stand up if you hate Boris' in unison at the World Championships while football fans chant expletives about him as the fallout from the No10 Christmas party rows continues

    His only way out now retaining a modicum of dignity is the Long Covid explanation. Up with your hands Boris and admit the decades of overeating, over drinking and promiscuity had left you woefully ill-prepared for a nasty viral infection. You are not well and you need to focus on your many, many children, and your own health. About 25% of the population will feel sorry for you and wish you well. The other 75% will shout Fuck Off and Good Riddance. The Conservative parliamentary group is in the latter category.

    It’s fun to laugh at everyone singing songs about the prime minister - but under almost any other PM, and certainly under a PM from any other party, there wouldn’t be a crowd of 3,000 people at the darts.
    1) I’m not laughing.

    2) It’s not fun.

    3) “3,000 people at the darts” actually gets to the very heart of the problem(s)

    At what point Sandpit have you had enough? You’re a good Tory. You are within Johnson’s “constituency” (as in his support base rather than geographically). You share his ideology. You are one of his “season ticket holders”, as @dixiedean put it upthread. So, at what point do you simply have to call it a day for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka Binky the Clown?
    I’ve never been a fan of Boris Johnson, but he was a necessary part of getting something that looked like Brexit through.

    Happy to see him replaced in the new year - unless he can quickly steady the ship with a new Cummings, there will be a rout in the local elections which will likely be the trigger.

    I do laugh at all the people shouting about the PM at an event, unaware of the irony that if the other lot were in charge it would be being held behind closed doors.
    Cummings never steadied any ship. All his qualities were essentially destructive.
    It is symptomatic of the profound problems in the modern iteration of the Tory party that they think they need a new Cummings.
  • Andy_JS said:

    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest video from Dr John Campbell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdVymGK3OzM

    *not a medical doctor
    He has a doctorate in nursing.
    Does that make him a medical doctor? I would have thought no. And is that a particularly relevant PhD for the things he is talking about? Just find it a bit misleading for him to use "Dr" in the circumstances.

    He was promoting hydroxychloroquine in at least one video I saw last year, and apparently ivermectin more recently, so I find him generally a bit suspect.
    I didn't say it did make him a medical doctor. My cousin has recently qualified as a medical doctor but I'm pretty sure she doesn't know as much about these subjects as John Campbell does.
    I don't know him from Adam, but if he's been promoting hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin then I'd hope your cousin knows better than that at least.
This discussion has been closed.