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Cooper moves to third in the SKS successor betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 2021 in General
imageCooper moves to third in the SKS successor betting – politicalbetting.com

There has been a big shake-up in the next Labour leader betting following last night’s shadow cabinet changes. The new shadow Home secretary, Yvette Cooper is now third favourite behind Rachel Reeves, the shadow chancellor, and the former MP Andy Burnham who is no longer an MP

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Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 39,240
    edited November 2021
    I fancy Rachel more than Yvette :)
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,255
    edited November 2021
    First? Edit: nope.

    Those are some godawful photos.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,359
    edited November 2021
    Have we forgotten how dreadful she was as one of the 3 dwarfs next to Jeremy in 2015. The supposed heavyweights were rabbits in the headlights with nothing to offer - no amount of grand standing in select committees or regional government changes that.
  • Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.
  • @MikeSmithson #

    Once again, you have stated that Burnham faced Corbyn TWICE for the Labour Leadership.

    THAT IS NOT THE CASE

    Burnham stood in 2010, where he came a poor fourth behind the Miliband Brothers and Ed Balls, and in 2015, where he came second behind Corbyn. In 2016, only Owen Smith challenged Corbyn.
  • Not to go all Prof Peston, but if as it seems SA allows for very common reinfection, should the government now be changing the official stats to include this in the poaitivr test numbers?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 33,021

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited November 2021
    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
  • Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    Can’t help but think Labour is drawing all the wrong conclusions from the self-inflicted polling damage Boris is mired in.

    It may still be too early for SKS’s team to articulate any vision or message beyond ‘some familiar faces who might be slightly more competent’ - but it’s risky not to do so, and it can’t be constructed in the closing yards.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,858
    On topic, keep an eye on the Gateshead Lass...
  • TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Ed "Total" Balls is aptly yclept.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499
    Excellent article on the FT and fairly encouraging too:

    https://www.ft.com/content/c719bcaf-eef3-4f90-a0b4-5503c63865bd
  • TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    They are all giants compared with the current resident at Number 10.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,349
    edited November 2021

    Not to go all Prof Peston, but if as it seems SA allows for very common reinfection, should the government now be changing the official stats to include this in the poaitivr test numbers?

    The dashboard should show both viral naive and reinfections. After all, it includes infections of both the vaccinated and unvaccinated - not just the unvaccinated.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,255

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Hard to see how he could have offended you so much during his three years as Children's Sec...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 33,021

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    eek said:

    Let’s stop talking Covid everyone. It’s putting negativity into our heads and that could make us all depressed and deflated. You know what I mean not to dwell on negatives? There has to be lots of other politics and ideas going on we can discuss and achieve the whole point of this website: learn from each other.

    Can I ask, what are actual levelling up policies which deliver on the actual promises?
    Free ports are mentioned my Dad think are a good idea, but it’s also widely reported Rishi Sunak has already castrated the free ports idea making them not nearly effective. So what are the other levelling up policies being pursued to meet the big promise? Where’s the 340 million pound a week extra money going?

    What levelling up? Lucky enough local authorities have been given £10-20m to spend on local projects and should be both grateful and ensuring delivery before the next election.

    And that's it.

    As for freeports the issue is that the real tax savings options were so likely to be abused that HMRC have basically cut them to nothing for various reasons.
    Thank you Eek. That’s the impression I was getting on free ports, but would anyone Pro Conservative like to challenge that.

    And surely there has to be more polices than that to deliver the big pledge this government is built on? What do we know about what’s ongoing and coming soon in terms of levelling up?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,040
    edited November 2021
    The transition of the BJ fanbois from boorish triumphalism to badmouthing Labour’s shadow ministers seems to mirror the changes in polling. Correlation or causation...?
  • Did Yvette post on PB in the early years?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop.
    Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.

    Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
    If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
    You really are sanctimonious aren't you.

    The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.

    There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
    No, my solution is that we start with the science that masks work, and that for most people wearing them in a shop is no real imposition at all. You might save a life by doing it, so it's worth considering.
    I'm not the one putting spotty teenage libertarian ideology over the lives of strangers, and what I have said is exactly true. If you give someone Covid because Ideology Says No, and they die, then you killed them. Can you live with that? That's up to you. But as a statement of fact, it's true.
    Do you accept that every single person is going to get COVID, yes or no?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    We're at the point where any Tory MP could stand in the street with his dick out, onanising angrily about immigrants in headscarves, get arrested, and our Prime Minister would say: "That's not indecent exposure. THIS is indecent exposure." And his poll ratings would rise, too.
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1465691592916811778
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1465689465314168838
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    Endillion said:

    First? Edit: nope.

    Those are some godawful photos.

    Is Burnham taking a poo?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,349
    In a twitter argument with Rob McDowell, he reckons Covid hospitalisations are rising in Scotland. They're clearly not.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited November 2021
    FFS media shitting themselves over school nativity plays....but stopping travel to Africa is racist.

    Its much more likely your kids that will bring it home and you won't wear a mask and hug them, not you going to watch a play for an hour.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,869
    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop.
    Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.

    Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
    If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
    You really are sanctimonious aren't you.

    The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.

    There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
    No, my solution is that we start with the science that masks work, and that for most people wearing them in a shop is no real imposition at all. You might save a life by doing it, so it's worth considering.
    I'm not the one putting spotty teenage libertarian ideology over the lives of strangers, and what I have said is exactly true. If you give someone Covid because Ideology Says No, and they die, then you killed them. Can you live with that? That's up to you. But as a statement of fact, it's true.
    Do you accept that every single person is going to get COVID, yes or no?
    Almost certainly , yes.

    That doesn't mean that we should seek it out. There are effective drugs such as proteases on the way, as well as 2nd generation vaccines. The prognosis gets better all the time.

    With potentially fatal diseases, I find procrastination a great strategy.
  • Mr. Smithson, be fair. Saying someone is a giant compared to Boris Johnson is like saying the battle didn't go as badly as Arausio for the Romans.
  • Did Yvette post on PB in the early years?

    As Snowflake I believe. She’d be melting under the red hot excoriation currently being produced.
  • TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    I think my favourite bit in the recent New Labour doc was how visible he was in the archive footage but when we cut to him now, he was never there, or only had a limited role, or, or, or ...

  • TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    They are all giants compared with the current resident at Number 10.
    Your bias is showing. The current resident at Number 10 is a colossus compared to these pygmies.
    1. Beating Livingstone in Labour London, when in 2007 Livingstone was bet odds-on favourite at 1.5 and was being tipped as "value" at 1.5
    2. Against all the odds managed to defeat the Remain campaign and almost the entire establishment and win the Brexit referendum.
    3. Took over a decimated Conservative Party that polled in the single digits in the European Elections and was polling upto 10 points behind Corbyn's Labour Party in the opinion polls.
    4. Took over at a time when @TheScreamingEagles and others were adamant his election would result in a Corbyn Premiership.
    5. Managed to get a new trade deal agreed with Europe that everyone else said was impossible to get.
    6. Won an eighty seat majority at the General Election.
    With all due respect, bitterness at the fact your side keeps losing to him seems to be clouding your judgement.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,163

    I fancy Rachel more than Yvette :)

    Burnham's the best lay

    (in a betting sense - although Cooper might be up there, depending on her odds... I can't see her as leader after 2015, but I've been wrong before)
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
    He was behind a lot of Brown's economics.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop.
    Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.

    Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
    If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
    You really are sanctimonious aren't you.

    The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.

    There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
    No, my solution is that we start with the science that masks work, and that for most people wearing them in a shop is no real imposition at all. You might save a life by doing it, so it's worth considering.
    I'm not the one putting spotty teenage libertarian ideology over the lives of strangers, and what I have said is exactly true. If you give someone Covid because Ideology Says No, and they die, then you killed them. Can you live with that? That's up to you. But as a statement of fact, it's true.
    Do you accept that every single person is going to get COVID, yes or no?
    Almost certainly , yes.

    That doesn't mean that we should seek it out. There are effective drugs such as proteases on the way, as well as 2nd generation vaccines. The prognosis gets better all the time.

    With potentially fatal diseases, I find procrastination a great strategy.
    That's an endless cycle though, Foxy, and requires a permanent behavioural change. Kicking infections into the future every time there's some variant or other seems like the nation will forever be trapped in this kind of half life of wondering whether lockdowns will come back.

    And we're not only going to get COVID once, we're highly likely to all get it multiple times as it mutates and evades our immunity by some small degree every year. Where does it end? We're not going eliminate COVID.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,461

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    They are all giants compared with the current resident at Number 10.
    Your bias is showing. The current resident at Number 10 is a colossus compared to these pygmies.
    1. Beating Livingstone in Labour London, when in 2007 Livingstone was bet odds-on favourite at 1.5 and was being tipped as "value" at 1.5
    2. Against all the odds managed to defeat the Remain campaign and almost the entire establishment and win the Brexit referendum.
    3. Took over a decimated Conservative Party that polled in the single digits in the European Elections and was polling upto 10 points behind Corbyn's Labour Party in the opinion polls.
    4. Took over at a time when @TheScreamingEagles and others were adamant his election would result in a Corbyn Premiership.
    5. Managed to get a new trade deal agreed with Europe that everyone else said was impossible to get.
    6. Won an eighty seat majority at the General Election.
    With all due respect, bitterness at the fact your side keeps losing to him seems to be clouding your judgement.
    Cooper lost heavily to terrorist sympathiser Corbyn in a Leardership Contest, a collosus indeed!!!
  • TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    They are all giants compared with the current resident at Number 10.
    Your bias is showing. The current resident at Number 10 is a colossus compared to these pygmies.
    1. Beating Livingstone in Labour London, when in 2007 Livingstone was bet odds-on favourite at 1.5 and was being tipped as "value" at 1.5
    2. Against all the odds managed to defeat the Remain campaign and almost the entire establishment and win the Brexit referendum.
    3. Took over a decimated Conservative Party that polled in the single digits in the European Elections and was polling upto 10 points behind Corbyn's Labour Party in the opinion polls.
    4. Took over at a time when @TheScreamingEagles and others were adamant his election would result in a Corbyn Premiership.
    5. Managed to get a new trade deal agreed with Europe that everyone else said was impossible to get.
    6. Won an eighty seat majority at the General Election.
    With all due respect, bitterness at the fact your side keeps losing to him seems to be clouding your judgement.
    The Boris Man-love is strong with this one :)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,331
    edited November 2021

    Mr. Smithson, be fair. Saying someone is a giant compared to Boris Johnson is like saying the battle didn't go as badly as Arausio for the Romans.

    And yet that non giant will very likely be the leader of their opponents at the next general election.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 33,021

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
    He was behind a lot of Brown's economics.
    Hmm that seems pretty good intelligence on what was happening while he was also trying to be Education Sec (Children, Schools, and Families more correctly).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    edited November 2021

    FFS media shitting themselves over school nativity plays....but stopping travel to Africa is racist.

    Its much more likely your kids that will bring it home and you won't wear a mask and hug them, not you going to watch a play for an hour.

    What part did we play in Nativity play? Predictably I was typecast as an Angel? 😇

    My brother only managed to be a servant of Lord Melchiot. The one who carries a brush and shovel behind the horse. 😅
  • Ms. Hughes, be fair. That was after Miliband's daft electoral reform let in the loonies and the PLP failed to realise their role had shifted to being gatekeepers and put an idiot on the shortlist.
  • MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop.
    Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.

    Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
    If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
    You really are sanctimonious aren't you.

    The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.

    There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
    No, my solution is that we start with the science that masks work, and that for most people wearing them in a shop is no real imposition at all. You might save a life by doing it, so it's worth considering.
    I'm not the one putting spotty teenage libertarian ideology over the lives of strangers, and what I have said is exactly true. If you give someone Covid because Ideology Says No, and they die, then you killed them. Can you live with that? That's up to you. But as a statement of fact, it's true.
    Do you accept that every single person is going to get COVID, yes or no?
    Almost certainly , yes.

    That doesn't mean that we should seek it out. There are effective drugs such as proteases on the way, as well as 2nd generation vaccines. The prognosis gets better all the time.

    With potentially fatal diseases, I find procrastination a great strategy.
    That's an endless cycle though, Foxy, and requires a permanent behavioural change. Kicking infections into the future every time there's some variant or other seems like the nation will forever be trapped in this kind of half life of wondering whether lockdowns will come back.

    And we're not only going to get COVID once, we're highly likely to all get it multiple times as it mutates and evades our immunity by some small degree every year. Where does it end? We're not going eliminate COVID.
    Its going to be like the flu isn't it? Permanently there, especially over winter, and annual jabs especially for the vulnerable but some people will still die from it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,235

    The transition of the BJ fanbois from boorish triumphalism to badmouthing Labour’s shadow ministers seems to mirror the changes in polling. Correlation or causation...?

    Both?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,757

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    They are all giants compared with the current resident at Number 10.
    Your bias is showing. The current resident at Number 10 is a colossus compared to these pygmies.
    1. Beating Livingstone in Labour London, when in 2007 Livingstone was bet odds-on favourite at 1.5 and was being tipped as "value" at 1.5
    2. Against all the odds managed to defeat the Remain campaign and almost the entire establishment and win the Brexit referendum.
    3. Took over a decimated Conservative Party that polled in the single digits in the European Elections and was polling upto 10 points behind Corbyn's Labour Party in the opinion polls.
    4. Took over at a time when @TheScreamingEagles and others were adamant his election would result in a Corbyn Premiership.
    5. Managed to get a new trade deal agreed with Europe that everyone else said was impossible to get.
    6. Won an eighty seat majority at the General Election.
    With all due respect, bitterness at the fact your side keeps losing to him seems to be clouding your judgement.
    So much love, get a room!
  • eekeek Posts: 17,710

    Did Yvette post on PB in the early years?

    I think she used the username @SeanT
    If she did, she needs to revisit the site and check @Cyclefree , @MaxPB and @rcs1000 solutions to the migrant issue. Those plans are far more advanced and nuanced than anything I've seen published elsewhere.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 1,402
    edited November 2021
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
    He was behind a lot of Brown's economics.
    Hmm that seems pretty good intelligence on what was happening while he was also trying to be Education Sec (Children, Schools, and Families more correctly).
    He did have thirteen years, from 1994, working as Brown's economic adviser before being moved.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
    He was behind a lot of Brown's economics.
    Hmm that seems pretty good intelligence on what was happening while he was also trying to be Education Sec (Children, Schools, and Families more correctly).
    You're right, why would I possibly think that the Chief Economic Advisor to the Treasury and Economic Secretary to the Treasury might have had an influence on the economic policies of the Treasury?

    Balls only became Children's Secretary after Brown left the Treasury by which point the damage to the economic foundations of this country had already been inflicted.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 687

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    They are all giants compared with the current resident at Number 10.
    Your bias is showing. The current resident at Number 10 is a colossus compared to these pygmies.
    1. Beating Livingstone in Labour London, when in 2007 Livingstone was bet odds-on favourite at 1.5 and was being tipped as "value" at 1.5
    2. Against all the odds managed to defeat the Remain campaign and almost the entire establishment and win the Brexit referendum.
    3. Took over a decimated Conservative Party that polled in the single digits in the European Elections and was polling upto 10 points behind Corbyn's Labour Party in the opinion polls.
    4. Took over at a time when @TheScreamingEagles and others were adamant his election would result in a Corbyn Premiership.
    5. Managed to get a new trade deal agreed with Europe that everyone else said was impossible to get.
    6. Won an eighty seat majority at the General Election.
    With all due respect, bitterness at the fact your side keeps losing to him seems to be clouding your judgement.
    Faced Livingstone x2 and Corbyn x1. Starmer's a bit different from both of those. (Though I'm still betting on C maj.)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,235
    edited November 2021

    eek said:

    Let’s stop talking Covid everyone. It’s putting negativity into our heads and that could make us all depressed and deflated. You know what I mean not to dwell on negatives? There has to be lots of other politics and ideas going on we can discuss and achieve the whole point of this website: learn from each other.

    Can I ask, what are actual levelling up policies which deliver on the actual promises?
    Free ports are mentioned my Dad think are a good idea, but it’s also widely reported Rishi Sunak has already castrated the free ports idea making them not nearly effective. So what are the other levelling up policies being pursued to meet the big promise? Where’s the 340 million pound a week extra money going?

    What levelling up? Lucky enough local authorities have been given £10-20m to spend on local projects and should be both grateful and ensuring delivery before the next election.

    And that's it.

    As for freeports the issue is that the real tax savings options were so likely to be abused that HMRC have basically cut them to nothing for various reasons.
    Thank you Eek. That’s the impression I was getting on free ports, but would anyone Pro Conservative like to challenge that.

    And surely there has to be more polices than that to deliver the big pledge this government is built on? What do we know about what’s ongoing and coming soon in terms of levelling up?
    There’s no money for levelling up.

    Apart from cash, the other pillar for levelling up must be devolution to local government. This is now expected to be the focus of Gove’s white paper which is due soon.

    However I predict that all he’ll do is give counties the opportunity to gain the same powers as the metros: ie, bugger all.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,331
    What do the cricket enthusiasts make of this idea ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/30/cricket-toss-proposal-could-give-each-side-coin-equal-weight-the-spin

    I like it a lot, not least as it increases the chance of foolish captains looking very foolish.
  • Monkeys said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    They are all giants compared with the current resident at Number 10.
    Your bias is showing. The current resident at Number 10 is a colossus compared to these pygmies.
    1. Beating Livingstone in Labour London, when in 2007 Livingstone was bet odds-on favourite at 1.5 and was being tipped as "value" at 1.5
    2. Against all the odds managed to defeat the Remain campaign and almost the entire establishment and win the Brexit referendum.
    3. Took over a decimated Conservative Party that polled in the single digits in the European Elections and was polling upto 10 points behind Corbyn's Labour Party in the opinion polls.
    4. Took over at a time when @TheScreamingEagles and others were adamant his election would result in a Corbyn Premiership.
    5. Managed to get a new trade deal agreed with Europe that everyone else said was impossible to get.
    6. Won an eighty seat majority at the General Election.
    With all due respect, bitterness at the fact your side keeps losing to him seems to be clouding your judgement.
    Faced Livingstone x2 and Corbyn x1. Starmer's a bit different from both of those. (Though I'm still betting on C maj.)
    You're right, Starmer's no Livingstone.

    Livingstone was a double election winner who was being tipped as value at 1.5 and had a major lead in the polls in 2007 when the campaigning began.

    Starmer isn't a patch on 2007 Livingstone.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    edited November 2021
    Northstar said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    Can’t help but think Labour is drawing all the wrong conclusions from the self-inflicted polling damage Boris is mired in.

    It may still be too early for SKS’s team to articulate any vision or message beyond ‘some familiar faces who might be slightly more competent’ - but it’s risky not to do so, and it can’t be constructed in the closing yards.
    Sir Keir is a europhile who wanted us to have another referendum, would like FOM etc etc, as are all the people in his Shadow Cabinet. They tried this in 2015 & 2016 and failed. But at least it’s an alternative to the govt, who are Leavers who say they want to bring immigration down - nice to have a choice. And if Labour get in next time on a platform if closer relationship with the EU, and visas for anyone who wants one, that’s fair enough.


    The reason I was so keen to leave the EU was that before we didn’t have a choice whoever won the election - Cameron, Clegg and Miliband all agreed with the 48%
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited November 2021
    Nigelb said:

    What do the cricket enthusiasts make of this idea ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/30/cricket-toss-proposal-could-give-each-side-coin-equal-weight-the-spin

    I like it a lot, not least as it increases the chance of foolish captains looking very foolish.

    The margins in T20 are so slim and so many variables, so IMO for these major championships finals it should be like baseball and best of say 5 matches, in which bat first and second.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,349
    Nigelb said:

    What do the cricket enthusiasts make of this idea ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/30/cricket-toss-proposal-could-give-each-side-coin-equal-weight-the-spin

    I like it a lot, not least as it increases the chance of foolish captains looking very foolish.

    Love it for 20-20; interesting for ODI but shouldn't be in tests.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472
    Nigelb said:

    What do the cricket enthusiasts make of this idea ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/30/cricket-toss-proposal-could-give-each-side-coin-equal-weight-the-spin

    I like it a lot, not least as it increases the chance of foolish captains looking very foolish.

    My friend had an idea on this - 25-50-25 over cricket or 10-20-10 for T20. Both teams set a target to chase that way.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    As if Starmer isn’t dull enough?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,331
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop.
    Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.

    Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
    If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
    You really are sanctimonious aren't you.

    The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.

    There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
    No, my solution is that we start with the science that masks work, and that for most people wearing them in a shop is no real imposition at all. You might save a life by doing it, so it's worth considering.
    I'm not the one putting spotty teenage libertarian ideology over the lives of strangers, and what I have said is exactly true. If you give someone Covid because Ideology Says No, and they die, then you killed them. Can you live with that? That's up to you. But as a statement of fact, it's true.
    Do you accept that every single person is going to get COVID, yes or no?
    Almost certainly , yes.

    That doesn't mean that we should seek it out. There are effective drugs such as proteases on the way, as well as 2nd generation vaccines. The prognosis gets better all the time.

    With potentially fatal diseases, I find procrastination a great strategy.
    That's an endless cycle though, Foxy, and requires a permanent behavioural change. Kicking infections into the future every time there's some variant or other seems like the nation will forever be trapped in this kind of half life of wondering whether lockdowns will come back.

    And we're not only going to get COVID once, we're highly likely to all get it multiple times as it mutates and evades our immunity by some small degree every year. Where does it end? We're not going eliminate COVID.
    Hardly.
    I think here we're talking a matter of weeks, so we can make an informed decision on how much to panic - or if we don't need to panic at all, for this particular variant.
    There are many ways in which future mutations are likely to be less of a problem.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop.
    Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.

    Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
    If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
    You really are sanctimonious aren't you.

    The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.

    There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
    No, my solution is that we start with the science that masks work, and that for most people wearing them in a shop is no real imposition at all. You might save a life by doing it, so it's worth considering.
    I'm not the one putting spotty teenage libertarian ideology over the lives of strangers, and what I have said is exactly true. If you give someone Covid because Ideology Says No, and they die, then you killed them. Can you live with that? That's up to you. But as a statement of fact, it's true.
    Do you accept that every single person is going to get COVID, yes or no?
    I don't know
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,572

    Excellent article on the FT and fairly encouraging too:

    https://www.ft.com/content/c719bcaf-eef3-4f90-a0b4-5503c63865bd

    No access - can you briefly summarise?
  • ALL of Scotland’s nine confirmed Omicron variant cases are linked to a “single private event” 10 days ago, it emerged today.

    Nicola Sturgeon revealed the details as she told how officials are racing to isolate contacts and stop the spread of the new strain, which it’s feared may be more resistant to vaccines.


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/8084006/omicron-scotland-nicola-sturgeon-update-cases-linked/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebarweb
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,177
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop.
    Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.

    Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
    If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
    You really are sanctimonious aren't you.

    The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.

    There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
    No, my solution is that we start with the science that masks work, and that for most people wearing them in a shop is no real imposition at all. You might save a life by doing it, so it's worth considering.
    I'm not the one putting spotty teenage libertarian ideology over the lives of strangers, and what I have said is exactly true. If you give someone Covid because Ideology Says No, and they die, then you killed them. Can you live with that? That's up to you. But as a statement of fact, it's true.
    Do you accept that every single person is going to get COVID, yes or no?
    Almost certainly , yes.

    That doesn't mean that we should seek it out. There are effective drugs such as proteases on the way, as well as 2nd generation vaccines. The prognosis gets better all the time.

    With potentially fatal diseases, I find procrastination a great strategy.
    That's an endless cycle though, Foxy, and requires a permanent behavioural change. Kicking infections into the future every time there's some variant or other seems like the nation will forever be trapped in this kind of half life of wondering whether lockdowns will come back.

    And we're not only going to get COVID once, we're highly likely to all get it multiple times as it mutates and evades our immunity by some small degree every year. Where does it end? We're not going eliminate COVID.
    Hardly.
    I think here we're talking a matter of weeks, so we can make an informed decision on how much to panic - or if we don't need to panic at all, for this particular variant.
    There are many ways in which future mutations are likely to be less of a problem.
    Where have I heard just a matter of weeks before, eh?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,331
    edited November 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    What do the cricket enthusiasts make of this idea ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/30/cricket-toss-proposal-could-give-each-side-coin-equal-weight-the-spin

    I like it a lot, not least as it increases the chance of foolish captains looking very foolish.

    My friend had an idea on this - 25-50-25 over cricket or 10-20-10 for T20. Both teams set a target to chase that way.
    I like the you slice the cake, I'll choose which piece way this works. It has a mathematical and psychological elegance.
    The two half innings/one innings idea looks likely to create as many problems as it solves.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 33,021

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
    He was behind a lot of Brown's economics.
    Hmm that seems pretty good intelligence on what was happening while he was also trying to be Education Sec (Children, Schools, and Families more correctly).
    You're right, why would I possibly think that the Chief Economic Advisor to the Treasury and Economic Secretary to the Treasury might have had an influence on the economic policies of the Treasury?

    Balls only became Children's Secretary after Brown left the Treasury by which point the damage to the economic foundations of this country had already been inflicted.
    He was Economic Advisor for 10 years until 2004. He was elected in 2005 and was Economic Secretary to the Treasury for a year from 2006 to 2007.

    Was he the power behind the throne directing every move? We don't know.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited November 2021
    Twitter just banned sharing an image of people without their consent....

    NEW: media of private individuals without the permission of the person(s) depicted.

    https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2021/private-information-policy-update

    I presume in theory then any tweeting videos of breaking news / incidents are now banned unless blurred. And certainly any image or video of people acting like total arseholes and even bigger memes.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004

    eek said:

    Let’s stop talking Covid everyone. It’s putting negativity into our heads and that could make us all depressed and deflated. You know what I mean not to dwell on negatives? There has to be lots of other politics and ideas going on we can discuss and achieve the whole point of this website: learn from each other.

    Can I ask, what are actual levelling up policies which deliver on the actual promises?
    Free ports are mentioned my Dad think are a good idea, but it’s also widely reported Rishi Sunak has already castrated the free ports idea making them not nearly effective. So what are the other levelling up policies being pursued to meet the big promise? Where’s the 340 million pound a week extra money going?

    What levelling up? Lucky enough local authorities have been given £10-20m to spend on local projects and should be both grateful and ensuring delivery before the next election.

    And that's it.

    As for freeports the issue is that the real tax savings options were so likely to be abused that HMRC have basically cut them to nothing for various reasons.
    Thank you Eek. That’s the impression I was getting on free ports, but would anyone Pro Conservative like to challenge that.

    And surely there has to be more polices than that to deliver the big pledge this government is built on? What do we know about what’s ongoing and coming soon in terms of levelling up?
    There’s no money for levelling up.

    Apart from cash, the other pillar for levelling up must be devolution to local government. This is now expected to be the focus of Gove’s white paper which is due soon.

    However I predict that all he’ll do is give counties the opportunity to gain the same powers as the metros: ie, bugger all.
    We have stopped paying EU 340 million pound a week yet? That’s the Brexit dividend that’s going to make a huge difference invested in levelling up.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
    He was behind a lot of Brown's economics.
    Hmm that seems pretty good intelligence on what was happening while he was also trying to be Education Sec (Children, Schools, and Families more correctly).
    You're right, why would I possibly think that the Chief Economic Advisor to the Treasury and Economic Secretary to the Treasury might have had an influence on the economic policies of the Treasury?

    Balls only became Children's Secretary after Brown left the Treasury by which point the damage to the economic foundations of this country had already been inflicted.
    He was Economic Advisor for 10 years until 2004. He was elected in 2005 and was Economic Secretary to the Treasury for a year from 2006 to 2007.

    Was he the power behind the throne directing every move? We don't know.
    The damage to the economy was inflicted 1997 to 2007 and he was in the Treasury and Brown's right hand man that entire time.

    The Financial Crisis just revealed what a foul mess of the economy Brown and Balls had made. The damage was inflicted pre-Crisis.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,869
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anecdotal - All two staffed and three out of four staff masked up when I got my lunch 20 minutes ago from the Tesco Fuel shop.
    Complete 180 compared to last time I went in.

    Never like doing it but sometimes you have to so i broke the law today by not wearing a facemask over my face in a shop. Glad somebody else in there with me was also doing. The state has no right to impose dictaks like this and especially so that is has next to no consequence in controlling a pandemic
    If you have Covid, and someone in the shop gets sick and dies as a result of you being in there, it could be that you've killed them.
    You really are sanctimonious aren't you.

    The common cold can kill, the flu can kill. If you get behind the wheel and are in an accident it can kill. If you're riding a bus, that can kill.

    There's risk in life. Is your solution we all develop agoraphobia and live off Amazon for the rest of our lives?
    No, my solution is that we start with the science that masks work, and that for most people wearing them in a shop is no real imposition at all. You might save a life by doing it, so it's worth considering.
    I'm not the one putting spotty teenage libertarian ideology over the lives of strangers, and what I have said is exactly true. If you give someone Covid because Ideology Says No, and they die, then you killed them. Can you live with that? That's up to you. But as a statement of fact, it's true.
    Do you accept that every single person is going to get COVID, yes or no?
    Almost certainly , yes.

    That doesn't mean that we should seek it out. There are effective drugs such as proteases on the way, as well as 2nd generation vaccines. The prognosis gets better all the time.

    With potentially fatal diseases, I find procrastination a great strategy.
    That's an endless cycle though, Foxy, and requires a permanent behavioural change. Kicking infections into the future every time there's some variant or other seems like the nation will forever be trapped in this kind of half life of wondering whether lockdowns will come back.

    And we're not only going to get COVID once, we're highly likely to all get it multiple times as it mutates and evades our immunity by some small degree every year. Where does it end? We're not going eliminate COVID.
    Like I pointed out, treatments are on their way and the protease drugs work independently of mutations to spike proteins. Similarly, we will find out by Christmas how effective current vaccines are. Sure there are likely to be other variants in time, but our immunity will be better, as will be our scientific knowledge. There is no need for defeatism.
  • I will mask up going forward, even when COVID has gone away/reduced.

    The Tube is disgusting as it is and I am sure it will reduce my chances of getting ill.

    I call it courtesy, others call it submitting to facism or something
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,511

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    They are all giants compared with the current resident at Number 10.
    Your bias is showing. The current resident at Number 10 is a colossus compared to these pygmies.
    1. Beating Livingstone in Labour London, when in 2007 Livingstone was bet odds-on favourite at 1.5 and was being tipped as "value" at 1.5
    2. Against all the odds managed to defeat the Remain campaign and almost the entire establishment and win the Brexit referendum.
    3. Took over a decimated Conservative Party that polled in the single digits in the European Elections and was polling upto 10 points behind Corbyn's Labour Party in the opinion polls.
    4. Took over at a time when @TheScreamingEagles and others were adamant his election would result in a Corbyn Premiership.
    5. Managed to get a new trade deal agreed with Europe that everyone else said was impossible to get.
    6. Won an eighty seat majority at the General Election.
    With all due respect, bitterness at the fact your side keeps losing to him seems to be clouding your judgement.
    Cooper lost heavily to terrorist sympathiser Corbyn in a Leardership Contest, a collosus indeed!!!
    Corbyn sued, successfully, a Tory councillor last week for alleging (via a tweeted photshopped thing of the recent London bombing) that he was a terrorist sympathiser. The said councillor claims he is now skint.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,349

    Twitter just banned sharing an image of people without their consent....

    NEW: media of private individuals without the permission of the person(s) depicted.

    https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2021/private-information-policy-update

    I presume in theory then any tweeting videos of breaking news / incidents are now banned unless blurred.

    Bonkers.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,757

    eek said:

    Let’s stop talking Covid everyone. It’s putting negativity into our heads and that could make us all depressed and deflated. You know what I mean not to dwell on negatives? There has to be lots of other politics and ideas going on we can discuss and achieve the whole point of this website: learn from each other.

    Can I ask, what are actual levelling up policies which deliver on the actual promises?
    Free ports are mentioned my Dad think are a good idea, but it’s also widely reported Rishi Sunak has already castrated the free ports idea making them not nearly effective. So what are the other levelling up policies being pursued to meet the big promise? Where’s the 340 million pound a week extra money going?

    What levelling up? Lucky enough local authorities have been given £10-20m to spend on local projects and should be both grateful and ensuring delivery before the next election.

    And that's it.

    As for freeports the issue is that the real tax savings options were so likely to be abused that HMRC have basically cut them to nothing for various reasons.
    Thank you Eek. That’s the impression I was getting on free ports, but would anyone Pro Conservative like to challenge that.

    And surely there has to be more polices than that to deliver the big pledge this government is built on? What do we know about what’s ongoing and coming soon in terms of levelling up?
    There’s no money for levelling up.

    Apart from cash, the other pillar for levelling up must be devolution to local government. This is now expected to be the focus of Gove’s white paper which is due soon.

    However I predict that all he’ll do is give counties the opportunity to gain the same powers as the metros: ie, bugger all.
    We have stopped paying EU 340 million pound a week yet? That’s the Brexit dividend that’s going to make a huge difference invested in levelling up.
    Wait, I have an £43m invisible Garden Bridge to sell you.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    They are all giants compared with the current resident at Number 10.
    Your bias is showing. The current resident at Number 10 is a colossus compared to these pygmies.
    1. Beating Livingstone in Labour London, when in 2007 Livingstone was bet odds-on favourite at 1.5 and was being tipped as "value" at 1.5
    2. Against all the odds managed to defeat the Remain campaign and almost the entire establishment and win the Brexit referendum.
    3. Took over a decimated Conservative Party that polled in the single digits in the European Elections and was polling upto 10 points behind Corbyn's Labour Party in the opinion polls.
    4. Took over at a time when @TheScreamingEagles and others were adamant his election would result in a Corbyn Premiership.
    5. Managed to get a new trade deal agreed with Europe that everyone else said was impossible to get.
    6. Won an eighty seat majority at the General Election.
    With all due respect, bitterness at the fact your side keeps losing to him seems to be clouding your judgement.
    Ruined that with #5 - what a shame.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,255

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
    He was behind a lot of Brown's economics.
    Hmm that seems pretty good intelligence on what was happening while he was also trying to be Education Sec (Children, Schools, and Families more correctly).
    You're right, why would I possibly think that the Chief Economic Advisor to the Treasury and Economic Secretary to the Treasury might have had an influence on the economic policies of the Treasury?

    Balls only became Children's Secretary after Brown left the Treasury by which point the damage to the economic foundations of this country had already been inflicted.
    I'm hardly Balls' biggest fan, but he was only in the Treasury for a year (at a pretty junior position, as well), and most of the damage he did occurred before he (technically, at least) became a politician. Anyway, feels like a certain G Brown should bear at least some of the blame, no?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,359

    Twitter just banned sharing an image of people without their consent....

    NEW: media of private individuals without the permission of the person(s) depicted.

    https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2021/private-information-policy-update

    I presume in theory then any tweeting videos of breaking news / incidents are now banned unless blurred. And certainly any image or video of people acting like total arseholes and even bigger memes.

    They're also using their unremovable 'news' bar to promote 'fact checks' on their new CEO to downplay previous comments, which isn't remotely a conflict of interest or evidence that they're a publisher rather than a neutral content repository.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    What do the cricket enthusiasts make of this idea ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/30/cricket-toss-proposal-could-give-each-side-coin-equal-weight-the-spin

    I like it a lot, not least as it increases the chance of foolish captains looking very foolish.

    My friend had an idea on this - 25-50-25 over cricket or 10-20-10 for T20. Both teams set a target to chase that way.
    I like the you slice the cake, I'll choose which piece way this works. It has a mathematical and psychological elegance.
    The two half innings/one innings idea looks likely to create as many problems as it solves.
    I thought they could try two 10 over innings each instead of one 20 over innings - like a short version of test cricket
  • Endillion said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
    He was behind a lot of Brown's economics.
    Hmm that seems pretty good intelligence on what was happening while he was also trying to be Education Sec (Children, Schools, and Families more correctly).
    You're right, why would I possibly think that the Chief Economic Advisor to the Treasury and Economic Secretary to the Treasury might have had an influence on the economic policies of the Treasury?

    Balls only became Children's Secretary after Brown left the Treasury by which point the damage to the economic foundations of this country had already been inflicted.
    I'm hardly Balls' biggest fan, but he was only in the Treasury for a year (at a pretty junior position, as well), and most of the damage he did occurred before he (technically, at least) became a politician. Anyway, feels like a certain G Brown should bear at least some of the blame, no?
    You mean most of the damage occurred when Balls was merely Chief Economic Advisor to the Treasury and therefore the damage to the Treasury shouldn't be associated with his shoulders? 🤔

    Of course G Brown deserves most of the blame. Balls is runner-up though.
  • Nobody imagined BoJo would throw NI under the bus when they said he could not get another trade deal. His success is re-launching the same deal May had already negotiated
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    What decisions should Brown have made as chancellor that would have mitigated the later financial crisis?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    edited November 2021
    test
  • Twitter engaging in this level of censorship, surely they can't argue they are "just a platform".
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,511
    I can't imagine why a discussion on the merits, or otherwise, or Yvette Cooper has diverted into a discussion on the historic merits, or otherwise, of Ed Balls. Or maybe I can, and just find it pretty disappointing.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    IanB2 said:

    test

    traced
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    They are all giants compared with the current resident at Number 10.
    Your bias is showing. The current resident at Number 10 is a colossus compared to these pygmies.
    1. Beating Livingstone in Labour London, when in 2007 Livingstone was bet odds-on favourite at 1.5 and was being tipped as "value" at 1.5
    2. Against all the odds managed to defeat the Remain campaign and almost the entire establishment and win the Brexit referendum.
    3. Took over a decimated Conservative Party that polled in the single digits in the European Elections and was polling upto 10 points behind Corbyn's Labour Party in the opinion polls.
    4. Took over at a time when @TheScreamingEagles and others were adamant his election would result in a Corbyn Premiership.
    5. Managed to get a new trade deal agreed with Europe that everyone else said was impossible to get.
    6. Won an eighty seat majority at the General Election.
    With all due respect, bitterness at the fact your side keeps losing to him seems to be clouding your judgement.
    The Boris Man-love is strong with this one :)
    Magnificent muscly man.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    test

    traced
    infected
  • Farooq said:

    What decisions should Brown have made as chancellor that would have mitigated the later financial crisis?

    The Tories copied Brown's plans and wanted less regulation, the crisis would have only been worse under them. And yet this is never acknowledged.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,656

    Nobody imagined BoJo would throw NI under the bus when they said he could not get another trade deal. His success is re-launching the same deal May had already negotiated

    I thought it was different, for example in the role of the ECJ in arbitration.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321

    I can't imagine why a discussion on the merits, or otherwise, or Yvette Cooper has diverted into a discussion on the historic merits, or otherwise, of Ed Balls. Or maybe I can, and just find it pretty disappointing.

    TBF the discussion did run through all of her interesting ideas first.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,235

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
    He was behind a lot of Brown's economics.
    Hmm that seems pretty good intelligence on what was happening while he was also trying to be Education Sec (Children, Schools, and Families more correctly).
    You're right, why would I possibly think that the Chief Economic Advisor to the Treasury and Economic Secretary to the Treasury might have had an influence on the economic policies of the Treasury?

    Balls only became Children's Secretary after Brown left the Treasury by which point the damage to the economic foundations of this country had already been inflicted.
    He was Economic Advisor for 10 years until 2004. He was elected in 2005 and was Economic Secretary to the Treasury for a year from 2006 to 2007.

    Was he the power behind the throne directing every move? We don't know.
    The damage to the economy was inflicted 1997 to 2007 and he was in the Treasury and Brown's right hand man that entire time.

    The Financial Crisis just revealed what a foul mess of the economy Brown and Balls had made. The damage was inflicted pre-Crisis.
    Yes, Philip. Sure, Philip. Whatever, Philip.
  • Endillion said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Burnham was such a flop in the 2015 Leadership Election garnering only 80,462 votes

    Formidable Cooper got a stonking 71,928 votes showing how formidable she is.

    I think a @Sunil_Prasannan or LibDem style bar chart is needed here.

    She has high recognition, part of credentialising today's Labour Party, is not as far as anyone can make out an unreconstructed Trot, and is married to someone who distinguished himself on a popular TV variety show was arguably one of the more sensible politicians Labour has ever had.

    So that is all in the plus column.
    She is married to someone who was one of the most destructive and devastating politicians the Labour Party have had in office in my lifetime. Not to be fair a very high bar given they have only had the one spell in office.

    Balls failed economics is a large part of the reason that there was no money left and Labour were left so discredited when they left office.
    Wow when and what did he do?
    He was behind a lot of Brown's economics.
    Hmm that seems pretty good intelligence on what was happening while he was also trying to be Education Sec (Children, Schools, and Families more correctly).
    You're right, why would I possibly think that the Chief Economic Advisor to the Treasury and Economic Secretary to the Treasury might have had an influence on the economic policies of the Treasury?

    Balls only became Children's Secretary after Brown left the Treasury by which point the damage to the economic foundations of this country had already been inflicted.
    I'm hardly Balls' biggest fan, but he was only in the Treasury for a year (at a pretty junior position, as well), and most of the damage he did occurred before he (technically, at least) became a politician. Anyway, feels like a certain G Brown should bear at least some of the blame, no?
    Balls kept us out of the euro. He should have been knighted for that alone.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,757
    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    test

    traced
    That will be £13.5b please.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,511
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    What do the cricket enthusiasts make of this idea ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/30/cricket-toss-proposal-could-give-each-side-coin-equal-weight-the-spin

    I like it a lot, not least as it increases the chance of foolish captains looking very foolish.

    My friend had an idea on this - 25-50-25 over cricket or 10-20-10 for T20. Both teams set a target to chase that way.
    I like the you slice the cake, I'll choose which piece way this works. It has a mathematical and psychological elegance.
    The two half innings/one innings idea looks likely to create as many problems as it solves.
    I thought they could try two 10 over innings each instead of one 20 over innings - like a short version of test cricket
    I guess each team facing alternate balls would slow the game down too much. A bit like a penalty shoot-out, though, for excitement.....
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,359
    Farooq said:

    What decisions should Brown have made as chancellor that would have mitigated the later financial crisis?

    Not running deficits at the top of an obviously overheating boom economy whilst giving speeches about how you've abolished boom and bust would be a good start.

    Laughable to pretend people weren't saying it at the time either - his errors were obvious at the time and ever since, however much you try to play the niave, 'what did he do wrong' card.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 16,810
    edited November 2021
    Gordon Brown was an excellent Chancellor and was an excellent PM, better than anyone who has come since, that is for sure.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689

    Twitter engaging in this level of censorship, surely they can't argue they are "just a platform".

    Censorship is a strong word. Are they preventing you from saying and publishing what you want other than on their digital premises?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,301
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    What do the cricket enthusiasts make of this idea ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/30/cricket-toss-proposal-could-give-each-side-coin-equal-weight-the-spin

    I like it a lot, not least as it increases the chance of foolish captains looking very foolish.

    My friend had an idea on this - 25-50-25 over cricket or 10-20-10 for T20. Both teams set a target to chase that way.
    I would do 25-25-25-25 with the order of the third and fourth innings decided by the side ahead after the second innings.

    Also, did you know there used to be a coin toss for which ball would be used in test matches in England? David Lloyd mentioned this in commentary recently and said that the winner of the toss got to choose between the Duke ball and the Readers ball. It sounded like it was a separate toss to the one to decide who bats first, but the sensible thing to have done with that is to give the winner of the toss on the morning the game the choice of whether to bat/bowl first or which ball to use (with the other captain getting to make the other choice).
  • The political discourse is in such a state that anyone who criticises Johnson is automatically a left-wing nutjob, even though the majority of people doing it here are former Tories as far as I can make out
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 33,021
    Farooq said:

    What decisions should Brown have made as chancellor that would have mitigated the later financial crisis?

    The big one was the tripartite regulation. Totally ballsed up (!) UK financial services regulation.
  • Farooq said:

    What decisions should Brown have made as chancellor that would have mitigated the later financial crisis?

    He shouldn't have hubristically believed he had abolished "Tory boom and bust".

    We should have gone into the crisis running a budget surplus rather than a deficit.

    He should have listened to those who warned about the vandalism of removing Bank of England supervision of the financial sector.
  • TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    What decisions should Brown have made as chancellor that would have mitigated the later financial crisis?

    The big one was the tripartite regulation. Totally ballsed up (!) UK financial services regulation.
    Presumably the Tories would have done better? Oh wait, they wanted less regulation
This discussion has been closed.