It’s amazing what latest polls have done to SKS’s confidence – politicalbetting.com

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It’s amazing what latest polls have done to SKS’s confidence – politicalbetting.com

So today we have seen the first major shadow cabinet reshuffle by Keir Starmer underlining the fact that he is very confident now of his position as Labour leader.

Read the full story here

maaarsh

First. Bolded sentence is clearly missing it's ending.

maaarsh

Also your name makes me want to offer a hug.

Fairliered

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

londonpubman

Has anyone checked it with Angela?

👍😀

Gardenwalker

Farooq said:

maaarsh said:

First. Bolded sentence is clearly missing it's ending.

Mike Smithson should fire this Mike Smithsob, whoever he is

He’s Mike Smithson’s mean-ass, sonofabitch brother.

Gardenwalker

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

Yes.

rottenborough

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

They will be under a lot more pressure in the Commons. Cooper hammering Patel. I suspect that Thornberry has been given orders to look at corruption as shadow AG. Nandy will be talking about stuff she knows inside out.

BlancheLivermore

Cancelling our Valneva order is looking potentially really stupid now there's a new variant threat. I thought it was a bad idea anyway, but if it turns out to be really good vs omicron, as I gather it is against all the previous variants, Kate Bingham will be seriously pissed off.

I thought it was a bad idea to cancel as even if we didn't need it we want a big surplus to help vaccinate the world.

I hope we didn't cancel it because they're French.

rottenborough

And if as on cue...



John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

kle4

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

Gardenwalker

Cooper, Phillipson, Streeting are fantastic choices. Nandy too.

He’s pretty much removed (or reshuffled away from danger) all the numpties as far as I can tell.

kle4

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...

John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

A curious analogy I'd say - the point of the story was surely to learn something from both (and indeed the present), including remembering the good times in the past to avoid a bitter and terrible future?

Fysics_Teacher

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

tlg86

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...



John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

I thought Cooper was a Brownite?

Big_G_NorthWales

Starmer has made substantial changes and this must largely be his team for the next GE

It does look a better team than previously but Yvette was poor as shadow home secretary and even worse on hips

Time will tell but Corbyn looks to have been vanquished

rottenborough

Left are surprising quiet on reshuffle me thinks?

Maybe many don't work on a Monday?

BlancheLivermore

I'm interested to see how Bridget Phillipson gets on at Education. I think she'll be good, but could be thrown into some tricky 'woke' issues in that job.

rottenborough

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Starmer has made substantial changes and this must largely be his team for the next GE

It does look a better team than previously but Yvette was poor as shadow home secretary and even worse on hips

Time will tell but Corbyn looks to have been vanquished

Oh FFS. Not Hips again.

Wait and see how she is with Patel in the Commons in next few months. Forensic demolition comes to my mind.

kle4

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

rottenborough

tlg86 said:

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...



John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

I thought Cooper was a Brownite?

Yep. But of course in the McDonnell universe of political theory there are only Tories-Blairites and Marxists revolutionaries. Nothing between.

isam

He does seem more confident, I’d say it was taken from winning B&S. plus he gets to grill Boris over his recent troubles, which he is trained to do.

The new ShadCab does seem stronger too, but as I said on the last thread, is that because we know them better as they are EdMs crew who were on the tv a lot 2010-15 - worth remembering that they only polled 30%, worse than Jezza’s worst

rottenborough

tlg86 said:

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...



John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

I thought Cooper was a Brownite?

As was Ed Miliband incidently.

OldKingCole

The question surely is, whether these people can put their ‘target’ ministers under pressure. I suspect Cooper will give Priti Patel a run for her money, and I’ve always felt that Thornberry has often been underrated on here.

Big_G_NorthWales

rottenborough said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Starmer has made substantial changes and this must largely be his team for the next GE

It does look a better team than previously but Yvette was poor as shadow home secretary and even worse on hips

Time will tell but Corbyn looks to have been vanquished

Oh FFS. Not Hips again.

Wait and see how she is with Patel in the Commons in next few months. Forensic demolition comes to my mind.

Well she is going to need to relate how Labour would deal with the fiendish problem of the channel and more broadly the huge increase in asylum seekers that is inevitable over the next few years

rottenborough

kle4 said:

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...

John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

A curious analogy I'd say - the point of the story was surely to learn something from both (and indeed the present), including remembering the good times in the past to avoid a bitter and terrible future?

If anyone is the Ghost of Christmas past it is the dynamic duo of McDonnell and Corbyn who led Labour at Xmas 2019 to the worst defeat since Culloden.

DavidL

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...



John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

Wow, didn't think it was that good. But pissing off McDonnell shows he is on the right track.

Fysics_Teacher

kle4 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

Fair enough.

Actually, on this blog I was waiting to see who would pipe up with the chemical formula for a feldspar or two (quartz is after all too obvious)…

rottenborough

Big_G_NorthWales said:

rottenborough said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Starmer has made substantial changes and this must largely be his team for the next GE

It does look a better team than previously but Yvette was poor as shadow home secretary and even worse on hips

Time will tell but Corbyn looks to have been vanquished

Oh FFS. Not Hips again.

Wait and see how she is with Patel in the Commons in next few months. Forensic demolition comes to my mind.

Well she is going to need to relate how Labour would deal with the fiendish problem of the channel and more broadly the huge increase in asylum seekers that is inevitable over the next few years

Indeed. Big task. Fiendish job. Big ask. Pleased she said 'yes' to the job.

Philip_Thompson

It says something about the dismal paucity on the Labour benches that the best that Starmer can do is reach for some failed retreads of the past.

In the mid 90s in Opposition the Labour Party had Blair, Brown and Mandelson demolishing the government.
In the late 00s in Opposition the Tory Party had Cameron and Osborne demolishing the government.

Where are the bright young things in the Labour Party able to take apart the government? Are failed Brownites being revived back like a boy band reunion tour the best that can be done?

kle4

Anabobazina said:

Farooq said:

Anabobazina said:

Farooq said:

Anabobazina said:

pigeon said:

Leon said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Leon said:

IshmaelZ said:

isam said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

isam said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

isam said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1465382571626409991

Starmer is crap!

Well he’s losing on the measure to a PM that’s in a hole. I had a billion pounds at 8/1 with a mate that Sir Keir would win Best PM this week w R&W too, bah

You're a troll. And not a very good one!

All the best with your illness

Not clever Sam. Whatever the disagreements we all have amongst ourselves on here there are certain things that just aren't acceptable. Not many perhaps but that is definitely one of them.

I’ve had close friends die from mental illness, and had my moments myself, but why should I be dug out by someone who makes stuff up, claims to be depressed, then gets a free hit when he starts ripping into me? For all I know he’s making it all up or is another poster pretending

Honest, mate, I can see all that, but just leaaave it aaaaht. not wurf it. Ignore.

I can see iSam's point as well. We all feel sorry for Correct Horse Wotsit, and hope he gets well, but that doesn't give him free rein to dish out abuse and yet whine when he gets it back. Doesn't work like that

Otherwise we could all pretend to be bipolar alcoholics and demand protection from the tiniest scintilla of criticism

You of all people should know there are degrees of acceptable and unacceptable behaviour on here. Attacking people for their views or what they say is one thing. Picking on their personal mental or health issues is quite another. CHB called Sam a troll. To reply by referencing personal issues is way over the top. And for the record people have done it to you in the past and I and others have said exactly the same thing then.

Whatever, yawn

As a more general observation - rereading the thread - there seems an unusual amount of petty bickering and offence-taking by many, even those who are generally more robust. I suspect we are all fucking rattled by Omicron, and truly fearful - if we are honest. This prickly PB atmosphere is a by product

Everyone I have spoken to in the last couple of days is scared. Everyone

I for one am not scared. Thoroughly fed up of the whole thing, yes, but not scared. I'm not going to start being scared either, unless and until there is a good reason to be scared.

Nor do I think that any of us can afford to be scared every time there's a piece of bad news about the virus. Because there will be a regular stream of bad news about the virus - people mithering about variants, panicking whenever this statistic or that one heads in the wrong direction, poring and clucking over some new piece of research or another - for years. If you get into an endless cycle of pointless panicking it'll drive you round the bend. Totally loopy.

It'll take the boffins some weeks to begin to get to grips with what serious implications - IF ANY - arise from this new variant. In the meantime, the fact that the Zombie Apocalypse hasn't started in Johannesburg, along with the majority of learned opinion, suggests that this is not an unmitigated disaster. And, therefore, the process for dealing with the pandemic in Britain has not fundamentally changed. Keep calm, carry on, and book your next jab as soon as you become eligible.

And I wish they'd not elected to reimpose mask mandates. They're practically worthless, as the evidence of the giant comparative experiment we've been doing since July between England, Wales and Scotland suggests, and the decision has only served to piss off the less nervous part of the population and make the more nervous part of it wet themselves again, to absolutely no useful effect.

It’s a fair point you make about the masks. The effect of non-FF3 mask wearing in shops is only going to be marginal, the act of their reimposing it had an effect on mental health in terms of reopening again the drumbeat of restrictions returning at any minute.

I've been meaning to ask, is there any evidence for detrimental mental health effects of people wearing masks in shops? We know that masks save people from infecting others and that the effect is far from "marginal", but I'm intrigued as to whether your other claim is similarly anti-science, a guess, or well-grounded.

Sorry my post was mangled, I tried to edit it but too late.

I’ll try again: the overall effect of mandating masks in shops is only ever going to be marginal, but the fact they did it affects mental health severely due to the revived spectre of lockdown restrictions being reimposed at any moment.

On mask efficacy, you're wrong. That's just the science.
On mental health, I suspect you're wrong, but I asking. I don't think wearing a mask in a supermarket causes any harm, let along severe harm. But I stress that here, I have no science to back me up. It's just an extraordinary claim and I find it a little silly. But I'm prepared to hear evidence to the contrary. That was my question.

You are entirely - entirely! - missing my point.

I couldn’t care less about wearing a mask in a supermarket. Who cares? It had no effect on my mental health. What I am saying is that the fact that mandates were brought back were in and of themselves damaging to mental health because they again raised the spectre of restrictions being reintroduced at any moment. They revived my fear (and that of others) of severe lockdowns returning even though the new measures themselves were minor.

(And yes, mask mandates in shops is only going to have a marginal effect on R. It will have some effect, but as part of the overall budget it’s pretty minor)

I think this is a good point and easy to overlook. The argument may well be that such restrictions become necessary regardless of such an impact, we have pretty much all accepted sizable negative personal and economic impacts as the appropriate path for most of the past 2 years, with arguments more around the details.

People have in general proven a lot more resilient and robust in dealing mentally with the unnatural impositions that have been faced to date, and I am sure most would continue to bear it. Nevertheless, I think it is reasonable to consider that the stop start nature of restrictions, or fear of never ending uncertainty around the imposition of restrictions, however justified, is itself a factor. In itself that is not controversial, since despite a rapidly changing situation at times there has been criticism of rules/guidance changing too often for example, for being confusing, recognising slightly slower movement would get greater understanding and compliance, relatively speaking.

That doesn't mean concerns over mental health ovreride any wider public health analysis, but recognition of the impact even of the threat of potential restrictions is something to keep in the mix.

DavidL

Gardenwalker said:

Cooper, Phillipson, Streeting are fantastic choices. Nandy too.

He’s pretty much removed (or reshuffled away from danger) all the numpties as far as I can tell.

I wouldn't want to overstate it but he now has a shadow cabinet with a scintilla of credibility for the first time. I agree with Mike's last sentence too. The next job is to make it clear that they are in for the long haul in their shadow ministry and are expected to get on top of what is happening there and start generating policy options.

The Tories need to up their game and thank the lord for that. They have had an easy ride for too long.

rcs1000

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

Fair enough.

Actually, on this blog I was waiting to see who would pipe up with the chemical formula for a feldspar or two (quartz is after all too obvious)…

No point, everyone knows the formula for Olivine, so it would be pretty strange to boast about it.

DavidL

rottenborough said:

tlg86 said:

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...



John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

I thought Cooper was a Brownite?

Yep. But of course in the McDonnell universe of political theory there are only Tories-Blairites and Marxists revolutionaries. Nothing between.

You mean Tory traitors and true believers, presumably?

Fysics_Teacher

Farooq said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

Fair enough.

Actually, on this blog I was waiting to see who would pipe up with the chemical formula for a feldspar or two (quartz is after all too obvious)…

Sadly, I genuinely know 1 chemical formula for a feldspar. KAlSi3O8. I didn't know which one it was (Orthoclase, just looked it up), and it's impossible to know that I didn't just google it. I know some weird shit.

I knew there would be at least one.

Fysics_Teacher

rcs1000 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

Fair enough.

Actually, on this blog I was waiting to see who would pipe up with the chemical formula for a feldspar or two (quartz is after all too obvious)…

No point, everyone knows the formula for Olivine, so it would be pretty strange to boast about it.

But how many feldspars do you know?

Razedabode

A good reshuffle from Starmer.

Might start to turn a few heads in terms of reassuring voters Labour look a tad more credible

Stuartinromford

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

Fair enough.

Actually, on this blog I was waiting to see who would pipe up with the chemical formula for a feldspar or two (quartz is after all too obvious)…

(Na, K)AlSi3O8, you mean?

Feldspars are fun, as one of my lecturers used to say.

Philip_Thompson

Farooq said:

rottenborough said:

tlg86 said:

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...



John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

I thought Cooper was a Brownite?

Yep. But of course in the McDonnell universe of political theory there are only Tories-Blairites and Marxists revolutionaries. Nothing between.

I reckon there's a few on the conservative side of British politics who see Labour in those terms too.

Fair point!

And the public too seem to think similarly, look at the electoral winners of the past few decades:

Tory
Tory
Tory
Tory
Tony
Tony
Tony
Tory
Tory
Tory
Tory

SandyRentool

I know that K9P is the chemical formula for dog's urine.

rcs1000

Big_G_NorthWales said:

rottenborough said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Starmer has made substantial changes and this must largely be his team for the next GE

It does look a better team than previously but Yvette was poor as shadow home secretary and even worse on hips

Time will tell but Corbyn looks to have been vanquished

Oh FFS. Not Hips again.

Wait and see how she is with Patel in the Commons in next few months. Forensic demolition comes to my mind.

Well she is going to need to relate how Labour would deal with the fiendish problem of the channel and more broadly the huge increase in asylum seekers that is inevitable over the next few years

My understanding is that she's actually bought McDonnell and Corbyn a leaky boat, and they are going to be doing research in seeing how easy it is to row across the channel.

Fysics_Teacher

Farooq said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

Farooq said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

Fair enough.

Actually, on this blog I was waiting to see who would pipe up with the chemical formula for a feldspar or two (quartz is after all too obvious)…

Sadly, I genuinely know 1 chemical formula for a feldspar. KAlSi3O8. I didn't know which one it was (Orthoclase, just looked it up), and it's impossible to know that I didn't just google it. I know some weird shit.

I knew there would be at least one.

Sorry to be that guy.

You are not alone. Not on PB anyway.

Fysics_Teacher

Farooq said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Farooq said:

rottenborough said:

tlg86 said:

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...



John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

I thought Cooper was a Brownite?

Yep. But of course in the McDonnell universe of political theory there are only Tories-Blairites and Marxists revolutionaries. Nothing between.

I reckon there's a few on the conservative side of British politics who see Labour in those terms too.

Fair point!

And the public too seem to think similarly, look at the electoral winners of the past few decades:

Tory
Tory
Tory
Tory
Tony
Tony
Tony
Tory
Tory
Tory
Tory

Quite.
Never mind, John. I'm sure Vladimir or Josef will figure on that list at some point. Chin up.

There is after all already one Boris.

Sunil_Prasannan

@bigjohnowls

Please explain

rcs1000

Fysics_Teacher said:

rcs1000 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

Fair enough.

Actually, on this blog I was waiting to see who would pipe up with the chemical formula for a feldspar or two (quartz is after all too obvious)…

No point, everyone knows the formula for Olivine, so it would be pretty strange to boast about it.

But how many feldspars do you know?

I know Nathan, but not well. My sister knows him better than I do.

rottenborough

DavidL said:

Gardenwalker said:

Cooper, Phillipson, Streeting are fantastic choices. Nandy too.

He’s pretty much removed (or reshuffled away from danger) all the numpties as far as I can tell.

I wouldn't want to overstate it but he now has a shadow cabinet with a scintilla of credibility for the first time. I agree with Mike's last sentence too. The next job is to make it clear that they are in for the long haul in their shadow ministry and are expected to get on top of what is happening there and start generating policy options.

The Tories need to up their game and thank the lord for that. They have had an easy ride for too long.

This is looking more like a government in waiting. Younger, fresher, talented and yet experienced. The contrast with tired, greying, increasingly exhausted ministers like Gove and indeed Johnson himself will start to tell.

stodge

Philip_Thompson said:

It says something about the dismal paucity on the Labour benches that the best that Starmer can do is reach for some failed retreads of the past.

In the mid 90s in Opposition the Labour Party had Blair, Brown and Mandelson demolishing the government.
In the late 00s in Opposition the Tory Party had Cameron and Osborne demolishing the government.

Where are the bright young things in the Labour Party able to take apart the government? Are failed Brownites being revived back like a boy band reunion tour the best that can be done?

As you're clearly no fan of the Labour Party or presumably the prospect of a Labour Government, I can appreciate your growing trepidation and realisation the Conservative edifice won't last for ever.

An Opposition front bench aspiring to Government needs a balance of experience and ambition. The experience of those who have served in Government and have seen how Government works is invaluable but that needs to be combined with the youthful aspiration of those wishing not to spend the better part of their careers in the comfy chairs of Opposition.

rcs1000

Philip_Thompson said:

Farooq said:

rottenborough said:

tlg86 said:

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...



John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

I thought Cooper was a Brownite?

Yep. But of course in the McDonnell universe of political theory there are only Tories-Blairites and Marxists revolutionaries. Nothing between.

I reckon there's a few on the conservative side of British politics who see Labour in those terms too.

Fair point!

And the public too seem to think similarly, look at the electoral winners of the past few decades:

Tory
Tory
Tory
Tory
Tony
Tony
Tony
Tory
Tory
Tory
Tory

One last heave, comrades. (And then next time, we can have one last heave all over again.)

CarlottaVance

And so this is where Earth observation in Europe gets very messy, with the first of a number of critical meetings that could end up with the UK falling out of @CopernicusEU, the most advanced EO programme in the world. It would be a repeat of #Galileo. 1/n

https://twitter.com/BBCAmos/status/1465443977184874507?s=20

DavidL

rottenborough said:

DavidL said:

Gardenwalker said:

Cooper, Phillipson, Streeting are fantastic choices. Nandy too.

He’s pretty much removed (or reshuffled away from danger) all the numpties as far as I can tell.

I wouldn't want to overstate it but he now has a shadow cabinet with a scintilla of credibility for the first time. I agree with Mike's last sentence too. The next job is to make it clear that they are in for the long haul in their shadow ministry and are expected to get on top of what is happening there and start generating policy options.

The Tories need to up their game and thank the lord for that. They have had an easy ride for too long.

This is looking more like a government in waiting. Younger, fresher, talented and yet experienced. The contrast with tired, greying, increasingly exhausted ministers like Gove and indeed Johnson himself will start to tell.

And what about Rishi, Sajid, Kwasi to name a few? This government does have talent to offset the numpties and no longer has some of the complete idiots like Williamson. Its a closer fight, I'll give you that.

rottenborough

Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
·
1m
TELEGRAPH: Biden: No cause for panic #TomorrowsPapersToday

DavidL

rottenborough said:

Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
·
1m
TELEGRAPH: Biden: No cause for panic #TomorrowsPapersToday

Bugger.

rottenborough

DavidL said:

rottenborough said:

DavidL said:

Gardenwalker said:

Cooper, Phillipson, Streeting are fantastic choices. Nandy too.

He’s pretty much removed (or reshuffled away from danger) all the numpties as far as I can tell.

I wouldn't want to overstate it but he now has a shadow cabinet with a scintilla of credibility for the first time. I agree with Mike's last sentence too. The next job is to make it clear that they are in for the long haul in their shadow ministry and are expected to get on top of what is happening there and start generating policy options.

The Tories need to up their game and thank the lord for that. They have had an easy ride for too long.

This is looking more like a government in waiting. Younger, fresher, talented and yet experienced. The contrast with tired, greying, increasingly exhausted ministers like Gove and indeed Johnson himself will start to tell.

And what about Rishi, Sajid, Kwasi to name a few? This government does have talent to offset the numpties and no longer has some of the complete idiots like Williamson. Its a closer fight, I'll give you that.

The next GE will be a lot closer than many think imho.

I'm not saying Lab will win, but it will be a decent fight. Time for a change will be really resonate by 2023/4.

Fysics_Teacher

rottenborough said:

Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
·
1m
TELEGRAPH: Biden: No cause for panic #TomorrowsPapersToday

Has any leader ever said “actually I’d panic now if I were you”?

Sunil_Prasannan

Stuartinromford said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

Fair enough.

Actually, on this blog I was waiting to see who would pipe up with the chemical formula for a feldspar or two (quartz is after all too obvious)…

(Na, K)AlSi3O8, you mean?

Feldspars are fun, as one of my lecturers used to say.

The Quartz is strong with this one!

FrancisUrquhart

Fysics_Teacher said:

rottenborough said:

Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
·
1m
TELEGRAPH: Biden: No cause for panic #TomorrowsPapersToday

Has any leader ever said “actually I’d panic now if I were you”?

Wouldn't put it past Boris...Vrrroom Vrrrooom....Panic, no don't panic....erhhhh....Panic.....look Peppa Pig.

Leon

CarlottaVance said:

And so this is where Earth observation in Europe gets very messy, with the first of a number of critical meetings that could end up with the UK falling out of @CopernicusEU, the most advanced EO programme in the world. It would be a repeat of #Galileo. 1/n

https://twitter.com/BBCAmos/status/1465443977184874507?s=20

Fuck em. Walk away, and then send in the OSS to blow up their space rockets


We need to get on the front foot

rottenborough

Paul Mainwood
@PaulMainwood
·
2h
Well, that's nice. Pfizer has confirmed the full 100m (60m + 40m) doses will be delivered before the end of the year.
This means the UK can complete 12-15 second doses and boost everyone .... even if we leave all the Moderna doses sitting on a shelf.
(We won't of course.)
(1/2)

BlancheLivermore

How does @bigjohnowls rate Yvette Cooper vs Diane Abbott

Northern_Al

stodge said:

Philip_Thompson said:

It says something about the dismal paucity on the Labour benches that the best that Starmer can do is reach for some failed retreads of the past.

In the mid 90s in Opposition the Labour Party had Blair, Brown and Mandelson demolishing the government.
In the late 00s in Opposition the Tory Party had Cameron and Osborne demolishing the government.

Where are the bright young things in the Labour Party able to take apart the government? Are failed Brownites being revived back like a boy band reunion tour the best that can be done?

As you're clearly no fan of the Labour Party or presumably the prospect of a Labour Government, I can appreciate your growing trepidation and realisation the Conservative edifice won't last for ever.

An Opposition front bench aspiring to Government needs a balance of experience and ambition. The experience of those who have served in Government and have seen how Government works is invaluable but that needs to be combined with the youthful aspiration of those wishing not to spend the better part of their careers in the comfy chairs of Opposition.

Yes, the predictable few who are suggesting it's a reunion from the Blair/Brown years are utterly mistaken. It's a good mix of the old and the new.

People can have a look at the full list below and draw their own conclusions. Not many were influential in the last Labour government. Here you go:

https://labour.org.uk/people/shadow-cabinet/

turbotubbs

rottenborough said:

DavidL said:

rottenborough said:

DavidL said:

Gardenwalker said:

Cooper, Phillipson, Streeting are fantastic choices. Nandy too.

He’s pretty much removed (or reshuffled away from danger) all the numpties as far as I can tell.

I wouldn't want to overstate it but he now has a shadow cabinet with a scintilla of credibility for the first time. I agree with Mike's last sentence too. The next job is to make it clear that they are in for the long haul in their shadow ministry and are expected to get on top of what is happening there and start generating policy options.

The Tories need to up their game and thank the lord for that. They have had an easy ride for too long.

This is looking more like a government in waiting. Younger, fresher, talented and yet experienced. The contrast with tired, greying, increasingly exhausted ministers like Gove and indeed Johnson himself will start to tell.

And what about Rishi, Sajid, Kwasi to name a few? This government does have talent to offset the numpties and no longer has some of the complete idiots like Williamson. Its a closer fight, I'll give you that.

The next GE will be a lot closer than many think imho.

I'm not saying Lab will win, but it will be a decent fight. Time for a change will be really resonate by 2023/4.

Quite like a change now, but I’d settle for just changing the pm for now. Almost anyone else.

rottenborough

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

rcs1000

isam said:

He does seem more confident, I’d say it was taken from winning B&S. plus he gets to grill Boris over his recent troubles, which he is trained to do.

The new ShadCab does seem stronger too, but as I said on the last thread, is that because we know them better as they are EdMs crew who were on the tv a lot 2010-15 - worth remembering that they only polled 30%, worse than Jezza’s worst

Two words:

Diane Abbot.

Fysics_Teacher

rottenborough said:

Paul Mainwood
@PaulMainwood
·
2h
Well, that's nice. Pfizer has confirmed the full 100m (60m + 40m) doses will be delivered before the end of the year.
This means the UK can complete 12-15 second doses and boost everyone .... even if we leave all the Moderna doses sitting on a shelf.
(We won't of course.)
(1/2)

I’m assuming 12-15 second doses refers to the age groups and not the time they would take (or worse, last).

gettingbetter

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

The problem is now is that, whilst there is more talent on the Conservative benches than opposite, much of it is excluded from power for not having been on Boris's side before he was PM, and we now have the reserves playing the first team.

FrancisUrquhart

More information of spread in SA from infectious disease academic...

Reason for anecdotal stories of mild symptoms is the initial outbreak is students, particular university students, vast bulk of cases in 10-30 age group. Is spreading rapidly among a population that have high level of immunity either from vaccination or prior infection.

As previously reported hospitalisations are mostly unvaxxed but all far too early to make any statements about severity or change in symptons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T-muMWuSZI

turbotubbs

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

We’ve been here before. I’d be alarmed if they weren’t looking at options.

MikeSmithson

Philip_Thompson said:

It says something about the dismal paucity on the Labour benches that the best that Starmer can do is reach for some failed retreads of the past.

In the mid 90s in Opposition the Labour Party had Blair, Brown and Mandelson demolishing the government.
In the late 00s in Opposition the Tory Party had Cameron and Osborne demolishing the government.

Where are the bright young things in the Labour Party able to take apart the government? Are failed Brownites being revived back like a boy band reunion tour the best that can be done?

PB's leadng BJ fanboy speaks.

isam

Kirklees child sexual exploitation: 42 charged by police

https://t.co/w7oK27UWoO

turbotubbs

FrancisUrquhart said:

More information of spread in SA from infectious disease academic...

Reason for anecdotal stories of mild symptoms is the initial outbreak is students, particular university students, vast bulk of cases in 10-30 age group. Is spreading rapidly among a population that have high level of immunity either from vaccination or prior infection.

As previously reported hospitalisations are mostly unvaxxed but all far too early to make any statements about severity or change in symptons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T-muMWuSZI

Sounds good to me. Mild symptoms in the faxed or recovered, like most people in the UK? Happy with that.

Leon

isam said:

Kirklees child sexual exploitation: 42 charged by police

https://t.co/w7oK27UWoO

Those bloody Finns again?

Anabobazina

rottenborough said:

And if as on cue...



John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
·
1h
Reviving the careers of former Blairite ministers & simply reappointing existing Shadow Cabinet ministers to new posts does give the impression of Christmas Past not Christmas Future.

Sir K must be delighted with all the moaning from the left tonight

Stuartinromford

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

He does seem more confident, I’d say it was taken from winning B&S. plus he gets to grill Boris over his recent troubles, which he is trained to do.

The new ShadCab does seem stronger too, but as I said on the last thread, is that because we know them better as they are EdMs crew who were on the tv a lot 2010-15 - worth remembering that they only polled 30%, worse than Jezza’s worst

Two words:

Diane Abbot.

Preferably in the Dead Ringers Andrew Neil voice.

Leon

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

Oh god. It is so inevitably coming. The entire western world will be locked down within 4 weeks

Richard_Tyndall

Stuartinromford said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

Fair enough.

Actually, on this blog I was waiting to see who would pipe up with the chemical formula for a feldspar or two (quartz is after all too obvious)…

(Na, K)AlSi3O8, you mean?

Feldspars are fun, as one of my lecturers used to say.

Ah the old Solid Solution Series. Not sure I would have called them fun after having had to remember all that stuff for my finals but they were (and still are) nice to look at under the microscope and were always one of the easier rock forming minerals to identify. Particularly Plagioclase.

londonpubman

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

Oh god. It is so inevitably coming. The entire western world will be locked down within 4 weeks

Probably two weeks.

A good time to go shopping tomorrow.

Cyclefree

turbotubbs said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

We’ve been here before. I’d be alarmed if they weren’t looking at options.

They'd bloody well better be looking at options for compensating hospitality businesses who will suffer if masks / closures / loss of business are mandated again.

Anabobazina

BlancheLivermore said:

I'm interested to see how Bridget Phillipson gets on at Education. I think she'll be good, but could be thrown into some tricky 'woke' issues in that job.

PB favourite Bridget gets a big promotion?! That’s quite an eye catching appointment if she’s got DfE…

FrancisUrquhart

Watch as Health Secretary @sajidjavid persuades Sky's chief political correspondent @joncraig
to get his booster jab while the pair were preparing for an interview at St Thomas' Hospital vaccination centre.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1465443612263649290?s=20

Arrrrhhh big Jon Craig needed his hand holding.

kle4

rottenborough said:

DavidL said:

Gardenwalker said:

Cooper, Phillipson, Streeting are fantastic choices. Nandy too.

He’s pretty much removed (or reshuffled away from danger) all the numpties as far as I can tell.

I wouldn't want to overstate it but he now has a shadow cabinet with a scintilla of credibility for the first time. I agree with Mike's last sentence too. The next job is to make it clear that they are in for the long haul in their shadow ministry and are expected to get on top of what is happening there and start generating policy options.

The Tories need to up their game and thank the lord for that. They have had an easy ride for too long.

This is looking more like a government in waiting. Younger, fresher, talented and yet experienced. The contrast with tired, greying, increasingly exhausted ministers like Gove and indeed Johnson himself will start to tell.

Yet in fact the Cabinet is quite young as far as 11 year governments go it seems. Gove is really the only longstanding figure. Boris is indeed one of the eldest at 57, with only the Scottish and Welsh Secretaries slightly older than him until his recent appointment of Dorries.

Minister Age - Enterered Parliament - First Entered Cabinet (not necessarily been in it consistently since)
Raab 47 - 2010 - 2018
Sunak 41 - 2015 - 2020
Truss 46 - 2010 - 2014
Patel 49 - 2010 - 2016
Wallace 50 - 2005 - 2019
Gove 54 - 2005 - 2010
Javid 51 - 2010 - 2014
Barclay 49 - 2010 - 2018
Kwarteng 46 - 2010 - 2021
Sharma 54 - 2010 - 2019
Trevelyan 52 - 2015 - 2020
Coffey 51 - 2010 - 2019
Zahawi 54 - 2010 - 2021
Eustice 50 - 2010 - 2020
Shapps 53 - 2005 - 2019
Lewis 50 - 2010 - 2020
Jack 58 - 2017 - 2019
Hart 58 - 2010 - 2019
Dorries 64 - 2005 - 2021
Dowden 43 - 2015 - 2021 (listed on wiki as Cabinet level)

When you look at the 2010 first ministry (without the final column as most it was their first time in Cabinet) there were quite a few younger ones, but a surprising number elder or similarly aged ones for a first Tory government in 13 years and the first LD government ever.

Cameron - 43 - 2001
Clegg - 43 - 2005
Hague - 49 - 1989
Osborne - 39 - 2001
Clarke - 70 - 1970
May - 54 - 1997
Fox - 49 - 1992
Cable - 67 - 1997
Duncan Smith - 56 - 1992
Huhne - 56 - 2005
Lansley - 54 - 1997
Gove - 43 - 2005
Pickles - 58 - 1992
Hammond - 55 - 1997
Spelman - 52 - 1997
Mitchell - 54 - 1987
Paterson - 54 - 1997
Alexander - 38 - 2005
Gillan - 58 - 1992
Hunt - 44 - 2005
Laws - 45 - 2001

Perception is key.

Leon

Cyclefree said:

turbotubbs said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

We’ve been here before. I’d be alarmed if they weren’t looking at options.

They'd bloody well better be looking at options for compensating hospitality businesses who will suffer if masks / closures / loss of business are mandated again.

I’d put the chances of a significant UK lockdown now at about 70%

Everything has moved so fast, governments are so alarmed, the trend is unfortunately very clear

SandyRentool

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

WFH over Christmas? Bugger that, I'm having a week off.

Stuartinromford

Richard_Tyndall said:

Stuartinromford said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

kle4 said:

Fairliered said:

Seems a stronger lineup than before. Will the Tories be concerned?

People won't immediately notice an improvement in shadow ministerial performance, or particularise specific examples of improvement I would think. It's not as though we really have a good way of assessing ministerial or shadow ministerial performance - at least with the former an obvious policy failure would be a potential sign, but even then it might be due to things beyond their control.

But, consistently getting the better of their counterparts would seep through to public consciousness, the mood music would shift a bit as political reports started mentioning it more. So I think the Tories would be concerned. They would be foolish not to be - they should always be concerned at the possibility of their counterparts bettering them, it will help them maintain a higher standard.

I feel this is an appropriate response to the idea that people will be slow to notice how the shadow cabinet perform:

That's isn't quite what I'd meant. I'm not sure they will be slow to notice it so much as not notice it, but they might notice or be affected by after effects from that performance. I don't watch PMQs or many other tv performances, but if there's a shift in reporting tone because of them I get a sense of it without necessarily knowing what caused it.

Fair enough.

Actually, on this blog I was waiting to see who would pipe up with the chemical formula for a feldspar or two (quartz is after all too obvious)…

(Na, K)AlSi3O8, you mean?

Feldspars are fun, as one of my lecturers used to say.

Ah the old Solid Solution Series. Not sure I would have called them fun after having had to remember all that stuff for my finals but they were (and still are) nice to look at under the microscope and were always one of the easier rock forming minerals to identify. Particularly Plagioclase.

They're incredibly pretty, and so flexible (which is where I had my fun). Bugger to visualise in 3D though; you have to admire the old-school crystallographers who did it without computer graphics.

FrancisUrquhart

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

turbotubbs said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

We’ve been here before. I’d be alarmed if they weren’t looking at options.

They'd bloody well better be looking at options for compensating hospitality businesses who will suffer if masks / closures / loss of business are mandated again.

I’d put the chances of a significant UK lockdown now at about 70%

Everything has moved so fast, governments are so alarmed, the trend is unfortunately very clear

Today's announcement has clearly caught the NHS off guard....

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/

Previously the site is quietly updated a day or two before any announcements are made.

Fysics_Teacher

SandyRentool said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

WFH over Christmas? Bugger that, I'm having a week off.

Two for me.

turbotubbs

SandyRentool said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

WFH over Christmas? Bugger that, I'm having a week off.

One of the perks of academic life - two weeks off at Christmas. Uni closes on the 23rd, plus a bit of leave, so stop on the 21st, back on 4th.

kle4

FrancisUrquhart said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

turbotubbs said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

We’ve been here before. I’d be alarmed if they weren’t looking at options.

They'd bloody well better be looking at options for compensating hospitality businesses who will suffer if masks / closures / loss of business are mandated again.

I’d put the chances of a significant UK lockdown now at about 70%

Everything has moved so fast, governments are so alarmed, the trend is unfortunately very clear

Today's announcement has clearly caught the NHS off guard....

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/

Previously the site is quietly updated a day or two before any announcements are made.

Yes, that wasn't up earlier when I decided to test to see if i could book. Fair enough, and shows Omicron must have truly been the mover on the decision I guess.

Fysics_Teacher

FrancisUrquhart said:

Watch as Health Secretary @sajidjavid persuades Sky's chief political correspondent @joncraig
to get his booster jab while the pair were preparing for an interview at St Thomas' Hospital vaccination centre.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1465443612263649290?s=20

Arrrrhhh big Jon Craig needed his hand holding.

I thought that was going to be “get him to promise to do it”, not “let’s get a needle in you here and now”.

Anabobazina

kle4 said:

Anabobazina said:

Farooq said:

Anabobazina said:

Farooq said:

Anabobazina said:

pigeon said:

Leon said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Leon said:

IshmaelZ said:

isam said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

isam said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

isam said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1465382571626409991

Starmer is crap!

Well he’s losing on the measure to a PM that’s in a hole. I had a billion pounds at 8/1 with a mate that Sir Keir would win Best PM this week w R&W too, bah

You're a troll. And not a very good one!

All the best with your illness

Not clever Sam. Whatever the disagreements we all have amongst ourselves on here there are certain things that just aren't acceptable. Not many perhaps but that is definitely one of them.

I’ve had close friends die from mental illness, and had my moments myself, but why should I be dug out by someone who makes stuff up, claims to be depressed, then gets a free hit when he starts ripping into me? For all I know he’s making it all up or is another poster pretending

Honest, mate, I can see all that, but just leaaave it aaaaht. not wurf it. Ignore.

I can see iSam's point as well. We all feel sorry for Correct Horse Wotsit, and hope he gets well, but that doesn't give him free rein to dish out abuse and yet whine when he gets it back. Doesn't work like that

Otherwise we could all pretend to be bipolar alcoholics and demand protection from the tiniest scintilla of criticism

You of all people should know there are degrees of acceptable and unacceptable behaviour on here. Attacking people for their views or what they say is one thing. Picking on their personal mental or health issues is quite another. CHB called Sam a troll. To reply by referencing personal issues is way over the top. And for the record people have done it to you in the past and I and others have said exactly the same thing then.

Whatever, yawn

As a more general observation - rereading the thread - there seems an unusual amount of petty bickering and offence-taking by many, even those who are generally more robust. I suspect we are all fucking rattled by Omicron, and truly fearful - if we are honest. This prickly PB atmosphere is a by product

Everyone I have spoken to in the last couple of days is scared. Everyone

I for one am not scared. Thoroughly fed up of the whole thing, yes, but not scared. I'm not going to start being scared either, unless and until there is a good reason to be scared.

Nor do I think that any of us can afford to be scared every time there's a piece of bad news about the virus. Because there will be a regular stream of bad news about the virus - people mithering about variants, panicking whenever this statistic or that one heads in the wrong direction, poring and clucking over some new piece of research or another - for years. If you get into an endless cycle of pointless panicking it'll drive you round the bend. Totally loopy.

It'll take the boffins some weeks to begin to get to grips with what serious implications - IF ANY - arise from this new variant. In the meantime, the fact that the Zombie Apocalypse hasn't started in Johannesburg, along with the majority of learned opinion, suggests that this is not an unmitigated disaster. And, therefore, the process for dealing with the pandemic in Britain has not fundamentally changed. Keep calm, carry on, and book your next jab as soon as you become eligible.

And I wish they'd not elected to reimpose mask mandates. They're practically worthless, as the evidence of the giant comparative experiment we've been doing since July between England, Wales and Scotland suggests, and the decision has only served to piss off the less nervous part of the population and make the more nervous part of it wet themselves again, to absolutely no useful effect.

It’s a fair point you make about the masks. The effect of non-FF3 mask wearing in shops is only going to be marginal, the act of their reimposing it had an effect on mental health in terms of reopening again the drumbeat of restrictions returning at any minute.

I've been meaning to ask, is there any evidence for detrimental mental health effects of people wearing masks in shops? We know that masks save people from infecting others and that the effect is far from "marginal", but I'm intrigued as to whether your other claim is similarly anti-science, a guess, or well-grounded.

Sorry my post was mangled, I tried to edit it but too late.

I’ll try again: the overall effect of mandating masks in shops is only ever going to be marginal, but the fact they did it affects mental health severely due to the revived spectre of lockdown restrictions being reimposed at any moment.

On mask efficacy, you're wrong. That's just the science.
On mental health, I suspect you're wrong, but I asking. I don't think wearing a mask in a supermarket causes any harm, let along severe harm. But I stress that here, I have no science to back me up. It's just an extraordinary claim and I find it a little silly. But I'm prepared to hear evidence to the contrary. That was my question.

You are entirely - entirely! - missing my point.

I couldn’t care less about wearing a mask in a supermarket. Who cares? It had no effect on my mental health. What I am saying is that the fact that mandates were brought back were in and of themselves damaging to mental health because they again raised the spectre of restrictions being reintroduced at any moment. They revived my fear (and that of others) of severe lockdowns returning even though the new measures themselves were minor.

(And yes, mask mandates in shops is only going to have a marginal effect on R. It will have some effect, but as part of the overall budget it’s pretty minor)

I think this is a good point and easy to overlook. The argument may well be that such restrictions become necessary regardless of such an impact, we have pretty much all accepted sizable negative personal and economic impacts as the appropriate path for most of the past 2 years, with arguments more around the details.

People have in general proven a lot more resilient and robust in dealing mentally with the unnatural impositions that have been faced to date, and I am sure most would continue to bear it. Nevertheless, I think it is reasonable to consider that the stop start nature of restrictions, or fear of never ending uncertainty around the imposition of restrictions, however justified, is itself a factor. In itself that is not controversial, since despite a rapidly changing situation at times there has been criticism of rules/guidance changing too often for example, for being confusing, recognising slightly slower movement would get greater understanding and compliance, relatively speaking.

That doesn't mean concerns over mental health ovreride any wider public health analysis, but recognition of the impact even of the threat of potential restrictions is something to keep in the mix.

Superb reply. Thanks.

turbotubbs

Farooq said:

turbotubbs said:

SandyRentool said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

WFH over Christmas? Bugger that, I'm having a week off.

One of the perks of academic life - two weeks off at Christmas. Uni closes on the 23rd, plus a bit of leave, so stop on the 21st, back on 4th.

I should have stuck with my Media Studies degree

Give me some credit, PhD in chemistry, now in a Pharmacy department.

rottenborough

turbotubbs said:

SandyRentool said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

WFH over Christmas? Bugger that, I'm having a week off.

One of the perks of academic life - two weeks off at Christmas. Uni closes on the 23rd, plus a bit of leave, so stop on the 21st, back on 4th.

If you could get yourself cancelled by woke students you could most of 2022 off.

Fysics_Teacher

turbotubbs said:

SandyRentool said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

WFH over Christmas? Bugger that, I'm having a week off.

One of the perks of academic life - two weeks off at Christmas. Uni closes on the 23rd, plus a bit of leave, so stop on the 21st, back on 4th.

Do you only stop on the 21st? We break up the previous Friday.

isam

Reshuffle looks bad for my Jess Phillips next leader bet

kle4

Fysics_Teacher said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Watch as Health Secretary @sajidjavid persuades Sky's chief political correspondent @joncraig
to get his booster jab while the pair were preparing for an interview at St Thomas' Hospital vaccination centre.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1465443612263649290?s=20

Arrrrhhh big Jon Craig needed his hand holding.

I thought that was going to be “get him to promise to do it”, not “let’s get a needle in you here and now”.

"Watch the TERRIFYING moment government minister BULLIES a journalist into a RUSHed 'vaccine' against so called Covid-19" raves Piers Corbyn.

Or take out the bit after journalist and it could probably be Lord Sumption.

Anabobazina

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

These contingency planning stories are easy headlines though - as it’s contingency planners’ job to, er, plan for contingencies.

LostPassword

A lot of positive comments about Starmer's new shadow Cabinet, but a lot of work remains to be done.

Although I agree with previous posters who make the point of how this could improve general media reporting for Starmer this is now make or break time. With his A team in place he becomes very vulnerable if the narrative and polls turn against him.

And that's to say nothing of the very serious strategic political problems that Labour face. What now for Brexit? What policies do they have that don't involve spending more money? Are they for them, or for us? Can they really be trusted?

TimS

Oh FFS feels like the right sentiment this evening as the doom slime continues to ooze through the cracks in everyone’s sense of seasonal cheer.

Maybe this is what Christmas 1915 felt like.

Anabobazina

Pony analysis of the reshuffle so far on NewsNight. Focusing on fiery PB fave Angela being a bit cross that she wasn’t told.

Dura_Ace

This now looks a bit premature.

Leon

Anabobazina said:

rottenborough said:

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Whitehall officials say contingency planning is underway in case more curbs are needed, starting with mandatory masks for all indoor settings.

Officials also examining potential WFH order over Christmas, but some govt insisters suggest it’s unlikely.

These contingency planning stories are easy headlines though - as it’s contingency planners’ job to, er, plan for contingencies.

Do you not remember last winter? This is how it works. What they do.

A rumour spreads on Twitter. It is officially denied. Then it is begrudgingly accepted as possible. Then it happens. A further restriction, then another, then another. The only difference is that it is happening a lot faster and at least there is no weepy bullshit about “saving Christmas”

There is still a decent chance the data on Omicron surprises on the upside. Then We’re Out of Jail

But the actions of global governments tell me they do not expect this

Theuniondivvie

TimS said:

Oh FFS feels like the right sentiment this evening as the doom slime continues to ooze through the cracks in everyone’s sense of seasonal cheer.

Maybe this is what Christmas 1915 felt like.

Good oh, conscription next year and rationing the one after.