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Harris v Buttigieg – the WH2024 nomination race? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:



    Is he resigned to leaving next year and doesn't really care?

    This is the interior of the third and latest VVIP aircraft Johnson has acquired with taxpayers' money (while cutting the RAF's transport fleet by 30%).



    Do you think Carrie is ready to give that up next year when they hardly got to go anywhere on it due to Covid? Johnson is there for the long haul - literally and figuratively.
    Strange, it looks identical to the Four Seasons jet:

    https://www.fourseasons.com/privatejet/2021/
    It was the Four Seasons a/c but they cancelled it and the MoD leased it through Titan.
  • Parody Boris Johnson
    @BorisJohnson_MP
    ·
    3h
    Today we will be voting on our exciting plans to make people in the north sell their houses to pay for the social care of wealthy people in the south.
    #socialcare

    Clearly a parody as the real Boris would describe these plans as "fantastic".
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If you're antagonizing me, and causing me to act all prickly, then you're probably losing the argument.

    Some of the most important changes in history have surely come about via doing just that*.

    Look at Insulate Britain, XR, etc. They are irritating as f**k and make me reach for the keys to the nearest 4x4 but are they "losing the argument"?

    *Not antagonising you personally, obvs.
    If one compares their stated aims with actual outcomes, yes, they are losing the argument. Good political advocacy is about winning people over, rather than remaining pure and self-righteous.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Mr. Z, you're aware that Africans enslaved one another quite a lot too, right? And white people (Norse era) likewise? And white slaves were claimed by the barbary pirates?

    Everyone has ancestors who were both slaves and slave owners. Condemning people today for things they've never done and seeking to throw money and privilege at others for events they never suffered is to divorce responsibility from reality.

    Exactly. Who do people think brought Africans to the slave ports on the coast of Africa?
    Several thoughts One is publicity..... lot of talk, books etc about slaves in the US. We know more about them than the folk in the Caribbean islands. As a subsidiary, Haiti has been largely ignored.
    Then there are numbers. The 'Atlantic Triangle' was a major European industrial exercise.
    Lack of publicity also accounts for the ignorance of the East African slave trade, from Ethiopia southwards to Madagascar, in which the Arabs, and particularly the Omani's, raided inland, taking slaves for rich, and not so rich, Arabs. And, especially, from Ethiopia, lighter skinned women.
    This was rather like the Norse slave traffic to Iceland, in which they took women from Ireland and the Hebrides.
    Theybrides, you mean.
    Use Suðreyjar or Western Isles: sorts the problem.
    Come on, Na h-Eileanan an Iar
    Kevin Rowland was a genius.
    What's the relevance, please? Escapes me.

  • (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Tory MPs are looking for evidence Boris is going to get a grip. They'd better not be watching his speech to the CBI.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,136
    Dura_Ace said:



    Is he resigned to leaving next year and doesn't really care?

    This is the interior of the third and latest VVIP aircraft Johnson has acquired with taxpayers' money (while cutting the RAF's transport fleet by 30%).



    Do you think Carrie is ready to give that up next year when they hardly got to go anywhere on it due to Covid? Johnson is there for the long haul - literally and figuratively.
    This seems to be a very British sort of whinge.

    As far as I can see UK Govt has 3 aircraft for this type of travel, France has 9 and Germany has about 15.

    Happy if you can clarify further.. :smile:
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Mr. Z, you're aware that Africans enslaved one another quite a lot too, right? And white people (Norse era) likewise? And white slaves were claimed by the barbary pirates?

    Everyone has ancestors who were both slaves and slave owners. Condemning people today for things they've never done and seeking to throw money and privilege at others for events they never suffered is to divorce responsibility from reality.

    Exactly. Who do people think brought Africans to the slave ports on the coast of Africa?
    Oh, OK then. Enslaving bad, trading in slaves morally neutral?
    Both bad. Ignoring one while condemning the other hypocritical.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Is he resigned to leaving next year and doesn't really care?

    This is the interior of the third and latest VVIP aircraft Johnson has acquired with taxpayers' money (while cutting the RAF's transport fleet by 30%).



    Do you think Carrie is ready to give that up next year when they hardly got to go anywhere on it due to Covid? Johnson is there for the long haul - literally and figuratively.
    Strange, it looks identical to the Four Seasons jet:

    https://www.fourseasons.com/privatejet/2021/
    It was the Four Seasons a/c but they cancelled it and the MoD leased it through Titan.
    Strange it's still on their website......
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Mr. Z, you're aware that Africans enslaved one another quite a lot too, right? And white people (Norse era) likewise? And white slaves were claimed by the barbary pirates?

    Everyone has ancestors who were both slaves and slave owners. Condemning people today for things they've never done and seeking to throw money and privilege at others for events they never suffered is to divorce responsibility from reality.

    Exactly. Who do people think brought Africans to the slave ports on the coast of Africa?
    Several thoughts One is publicity..... lot of talk, books etc about slaves in the US. We know more about them than the folk in the Caribbean islands. As a subsidiary, Haiti has been largely ignored.
    Then there are numbers. The 'Atlantic Triangle' was a major European industrial exercise.
    Lack of publicity also accounts for the ignorance of the East African slave trade, from Ethiopia southwards to Madagascar, in which the Arabs, and particularly the Omani's, raided inland, taking slaves for rich, and not so rich, Arabs. And, especially, from Ethiopia, lighter skinned women.
    This was rather like the Norse slave traffic to Iceland, in which they took women from Ireland and the Hebrides.
    Theybrides, you mean.
    Use Suðreyjar or Western Isles: sorts the problem.
    Come on, Na h-Eileanan an Iar
    Kevin Rowland was a genius.
    What's the relevance, please? Escapes me.
    Come on, Na h-Eileanan an Iar
    Come on, Na h-Eileanan an Iar
    Now you have grown, now you have shown
    Oh! Na h-Eileanan!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If you're antagonizing me, and causing me to act all prickly, then you're probably losing the argument.

    Some of the most important changes in history have surely come about via doing just that*.

    Look at Insulate Britain, XR, etc. They are irritating as f**k and make me reach for the keys to the nearest 4x4 but are they "losing the argument"?

    *Not antagonising you personally, obvs.
    If one compares their stated aims with actual outcomes, yes, they are losing the argument. Good political advocacy is about winning people over, rather than remaining pure and self-righteous.
    What are the actual outcomes?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Anyone have a link to the speech audio or video?
  • If we sometimes think PB debates utterly obscure issues, Rentoul is debating why some first floor windows in 1890s Kensington had awnings...


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    Replying to
    @inkpen99
    and
    @OldLondonW14
    Are they awnings to stop direct sun? (Unlikely, as north-facing.) Anyone know?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    edited November 2021
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    Farooq said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Z, you're aware that Africans enslaved one another quite a lot too, right? And white people (Norse era) likewise? And white slaves were claimed by the barbary pirates?

    Everyone has ancestors who were both slaves and slave owners. Condemning people today for things they've never done and seeking to throw money and privilege at others for events they never suffered is to divorce responsibility from reality.

    Exactly. Who do people think brought Africans to the slave ports on the coast of Africa?
    Several thoughts One is publicity..... lot of talk, books etc about slaves in the US. We know more about them than the folk in the Caribbean islands. As a subsidiary, Haiti has been largely ignored.
    Then there are numbers. The 'Atlantic Triangle' was a major European industrial exercise.
    Lack of publicity also accounts for the ignorance of the East African slave trade, from Ethiopia southwards to Madagascar, in which the Arabs, and particularly the Omani's, raided inland, taking slaves for rich, and not so rich, Arabs. And, especially, from Ethiopia, lighter skinned women.
    This was rather like the Norse slave traffic to Iceland, in which they took women from Ireland and the Hebrides.
    I'm no expert on Haiti, but pre-1791, it sounds like hell on earth, for 80% or so of the population. The slaves were shipped in to be worked to death. Average life expectancy on arrival from Africa was about two years. The punishment for slave rebellion was typically, to be burned alive.

    As you might imagine, when the slaves eventually rebelled successfully, they inflicted horrific revenge on the slavers.
    It wasn't much fun for a lot of the French too. People turned up with dreams of big wealth and promptly dropped dead from tropical diseases.

    Obviously much worse for the slaves, but I think most everyone was miserable there in their own way.
    It was a society riven with hatred. The white planters and lower class whites hated each other. The latter hated the free people of colour, who were themselves divided between wealthy slavers and the lower classes. And, they all feared the black slaves who hated them in turn.

    There were fantastic profits to be had, for a few. It was producing 70% of the world's sugar and 30% of the world's coffee on the eve of the revolution.

    Some of the free people of colour like Alexandre Dumas Grandpere were French aristocrats, due to marriages between white aristocrats, and slaves that they had freed.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    TOPPING said:

    Anyone have a link to the speech audio or video?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e9Y023-mnc
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818

    If we sometimes think PB debates utterly obscure issues, Rentoul is debating why some first floor windows in 1890s Kensington had awnings...


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    Replying to
    @inkpen99
    and
    @OldLondonW14
    Are they awnings to stop direct sun? (Unlikely, as north-facing.) Anyone know?

    Obvious: to stop people in higher flats opposite from looking into the rooms. Windows were much higher in thoswe days.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If you're antagonizing me, and causing me to act all prickly, then you're probably losing the argument.

    Some of the most important changes in history have surely come about via doing just that*.

    Look at Insulate Britain, XR, etc. They are irritating as f**k and make me reach for the keys to the nearest 4x4 but are they "losing the argument"?

    *Not antagonising you personally, obvs.
    If one compares their stated aims with actual outcomes, yes, they are losing the argument. Good political advocacy is about winning people over, rather than remaining pure and self-righteous.
    What are the actual outcomes?
    The outcome is that - possibly - the UK economy will be carbon-neutral by 2050, far too long in the eyes of XR.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,030
    edited November 2021
    Good to see Nicola Sturgeon and Douglas Ross visiting a drug centre in Glasgow and uniting in the fight against Scotland's drug problems, the worst Europe

    BBC News - Why are Sturgeon and Ross visiting a drugs project?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-59333520
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Is he resigned to leaving next year and doesn't really care?

    This is the interior of the third and latest VVIP aircraft Johnson has acquired with taxpayers' money (while cutting the RAF's transport fleet by 30%).



    Do you think Carrie is ready to give that up next year when they hardly got to go anywhere on it due to Covid? Johnson is there for the long haul - literally and figuratively.
    This seems to be a very British sort of whinge.

    As far as I can see UK Govt has 3 aircraft for this type of travel, France has 9 and Germany has about 15.

    Happy if you can clarify further.. :smile:
    Why do we need any?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    The notes for this thread have fallen off the lectern.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Boris looked terrible at his Mansion House speech.

    Could it be booze? I doubt it, but a lot of stressed new parents turn to the evil liquor

    Or it could just be physical exhaustion. He’s 57. With a toddler, and another due very soon. AND he’s Prime Minister

    That would be demanding for a man in peak physical condition with oodles of money and no great call on his time. Mick Jagger can get away with being a dad into his old age coz he doesn’t have to get up until noon and he can save his energies

    Boris has to run the country and be there for “dad time”. It must be bloody miserable. And ageing. And knackering

    Particularly as he has little practical experience of Dad time.
    I bet that’s true, as well. He strikes me as the kind of selfish but charismatic chancer who has always managed to dodge most paternal duties - I don’t mean simply ignoring bastard offspring but always having something more important to do just as the wife needs help with nappies

    But this time he can’t dodge. Carrie looks pretty assertive. He’s in the public spotlight. He’s stuck at Number 10. All = a lack of sleep which is ageing him by a decade in a year
  • Nigelb said:

    Paging @Morris_Dancer , what do you think of the upcoming Saudi track ?
    Looks to me as though it could have its own 'Wall of Champions'.

    Is there a market on a safety car yet ?

    I hope its more entertaining than Losail was.

    Qatar is everything that is wrong with F1. We just had a race with virtually no spectators on a pointless track which was both so dirty that there was only 1 raceable line most of the lap and with kerbs that break the cars. And they've been awarded a 10 year contract without even having a venue agreed. Madness.

    I expect Saudi will be as stupid. Perhaps they can take Toto and Christian away and threaten to chop their hands off if they carry on with their bickering.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    This is a horrendous speech, opportunity for Starmer here

    Utter car crash. Bloody hell he's lost it. Embarrassing.
    Out of curiosity just watched the first 5 minutes or so and not discerned a car crash so far although he is talking, just now, about his time as a motoring correspondent,. Just the usual animated Boris. Quite entertaining. Did he run out of steam later?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Carnyx said:
    tyvm
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If you're antagonizing me, and causing me to act all prickly, then you're probably losing the argument.

    Some of the most important changes in history have surely come about via doing just that*.

    Look at Insulate Britain, XR, etc. They are irritating as f**k and make me reach for the keys to the nearest 4x4 but are they "losing the argument"?

    *Not antagonising you personally, obvs.
    If one compares their stated aims with actual outcomes, yes, they are losing the argument. Good political advocacy is about winning people over, rather than remaining pure and self-righteous.
    What are the actual outcomes?
    The outcome is that - possibly - the UK economy will be carbon-neutral by 2050, far too long in the eyes of XR.
    Good negotiation. Ask for something aggressive and settle for a realistic compromise.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    Apologies if already mentioned but I have just spotted the MailOnline and its headline is absolutely scathing about Boris. I thought Geordie Greig got the push because he was too critical of Boris.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Mr. Z, you're aware that Africans enslaved one another quite a lot too, right? And white people (Norse era) likewise? And white slaves were claimed by the barbary pirates?

    Everyone has ancestors who were both slaves and slave owners. Condemning people today for things they've never done and seeking to throw money and privilege at others for events they never suffered is to divorce responsibility from reality.

    Exactly. Who do people think brought Africans to the slave ports on the coast of Africa?
    Oh, OK then. Enslaving bad, trading in slaves morally neutral?
    Both bad. Ignoring one while condemning the other hypocritical.
    Condemning historical figures gets nobody very far. The African slave traders exported their problems, white America imported and has now inherited theirs. Your point is an adequate rebuttal of people silly enough to think black people are innately superior to whites, but otherwise, so what? It gets no one off a hook.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Is he resigned to leaving next year and doesn't really care?

    This is the interior of the third and latest VVIP aircraft Johnson has acquired with taxpayers' money (while cutting the RAF's transport fleet by 30%).



    Do you think Carrie is ready to give that up next year when they hardly got to go anywhere on it due to Covid? Johnson is there for the long haul - literally and figuratively.
    This seems to be a very British sort of whinge.

    As far as I can see UK Govt has 3 aircraft for this type of travel, France has 9 and Germany has about 15.

    Happy if you can clarify further.. :smile:
    I never said they government shouldn't have it. Although its acquisition, while gutting the RAF's AT capability, speaks volumes about government's priorities and is another demonstration of the hollow charade that is 'Global Britain'.

    The point I was making was that Johnson and his absolutely adorable young family haven't had much opportunity to enjoy the trappings of high office and are unlikely to want to chuck it all away any time soon.
  • "Teesport is wonderful" says Bozo to an audience at Port of Tyne.

    I've heard some shockingly awfully delivered speeches in my time, but this one by Boris at the CBI takes some beating. All over the place.

    https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1462727357404520454?s=20

    That was one of the weirdest Boris Johnson speeches yet, he described Peppa Pig as a “Picasso like hairdryer”, made brrm noises like a car, lost his place for 20 seconds, & said young people need to get back to the office because “Mother Nature does not like us working from home

    https://twitter.com/STVColin/status/1462728496296480774?s=20
    He’ll be farting in front of the Duchess of Cornwall afore we know it.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Is he resigned to leaving next year and doesn't really care?

    This is the interior of the third and latest VVIP aircraft Johnson has acquired with taxpayers' money (while cutting the RAF's transport fleet by 30%).



    Do you think Carrie is ready to give that up next year when they hardly got to go anywhere on it due to Covid? Johnson is there for the long haul - literally and figuratively.
    This seems to be a very British sort of whinge.

    As far as I can see UK Govt has 3 aircraft for this type of travel, France has 9 and Germany has about 15.

    Happy if you can clarify further.. :smile:
    Why do we need any?
    The MoD has also just put out a tender for 2 x Global Express for VIP "and Royal Family" transport. I assume this will be to keep the undesirables out of Johnson's jets. Although these will be civvie crewed as the multi engine stream of the MFTS has fallen apart.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    "Teesport is wonderful" says Bozo to an audience at Port of Tyne.

    I've heard some shockingly awfully delivered speeches in my time, but this one by Boris at the CBI takes some beating. All over the place.

    https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1462727357404520454?s=20

    That was one of the weirdest Boris Johnson speeches yet, he described Peppa Pig as a “Picasso like hairdryer”, made brrm noises like a car, lost his place for 20 seconds, & said young people need to get back to the office because “Mother Nature does not like us working from home

    https://twitter.com/STVColin/status/1462728496296480774?s=20
    He’ll be farting in front of the Duchess of Cornwall afore we know it.
    He’s farted - and followed through - in front of all of us, and a decent percentage of the population cry for more!
This discussion has been closed.