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What Price Shoes? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 15 in General
imageWhat Price Shoes? – politicalbetting.com

The Biblical parable of the mustard seed teaches us that even the tiniest beginnings can grow into something very large. An example from history of this is a man who didn’t want to buy new footwear. It led to his downfall and death, an inter-empire war, and played a significant role in the rapid early rise of Islam.

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,899
    First like Labour in all the polls
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,811
    Second like the government's thoughts about hs2
  • Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,899
    Interesting and informative header @Morris_Dancer, thanks!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,632
    Northern newspapers are a bloodbath of broken promises for the PM tonight.

  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,462
    In that photo, Boris Johnson looks more like the Emperor Valerian, "his skin stuffed with straw and preserved as a trophy".
  • Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    These dinosaur conservatives need to be thrown out of the party
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,499

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    I don't think this is a bad thing, Chope likes to trigger debate on stuff iirc. And a further debate on this lot is probably a good thing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,609
    edited November 15

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    Chope is the one who objects to everything isn't he? On some bizarre principle that only government bills should pass. He is best known for his role in killing the bill that made upskirting photos illegal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,564

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    Chope makes even the rest of the Tory backbenchers all look intelligent by comparison.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,899
    IshmaelZ said:

    Second like the government's thoughts about hs2

    Or... Second like Italy?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,899

    Chris said:

    In that photo, Boris Johnson looks more like the Emperor Valerian, "his skin stuffed with straw and preserved as a trophy".

    I nearly captioned that photo with 'Boris Johnson's entry for the Worzel Gummidge lookalike contest.'
    A caption that could apply to just about any photo of Johnson tbf.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,869

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    These dinosaur conservatives need to be thrown out of the party
    Is it possible that you mispelled 'government' as 'the party'? :tongue:
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,017
    Well done Morris. I think that HS2 can be Covided away.

    The far more elementary and damaging error is failing to tell Paterson to suck it up. An example of Boris' loyalty it may be but it has brought the house down around his (unshorn) locks. Just about every front page now can be traced back to his decision to whip the Paterson vote.

    A better parable is the for want of a nail. Shoes do come in to it as well, obvs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    Foxy said:

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    Chope is the one who objects to everything isn't he? On some bizarre principle that only government bills should pass. He is best known for his role in killing the bill that made upskirting photos illegal.
    And IIRC for being a total hypocrite because he has let things through that he did want, making his supposedly principled reason for acting in that way untrue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,516
    Unless there is a sudden demand in the Redwall for new footwear I don't quite see the comparison.

    The Tories under Boris are also still roughly level with Starmer Labour, not well behind as May was by Spring 2019.

    ReformUK is also merely a minor blip in most polls, not well into double figures as the Brexit Party was polling before May was deposed
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,080
    And the moral is that empires never last when they’re down at heel ?
    Pretty soon they’re on their uppers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    Boy, those Labour deep plant agents are even more embedded than Agent Corbyn was for the Tories,
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,609
    Nigelb said:

    And the moral is that empires never last when they’re down at heel ?
    Pretty soon they’re on their uppers.

    Unless the boss is given the boot.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,356
    2 Con MPs rebelled on pension triple lock tonight (Commons reversing Lords amendment):

    Esther McVey
    Derek Thomas

    Vote was 300-229 so well over 100 MPs absent.
  • Faffing about asks @Morris_Dancer

    Shagger likes faffing about. With as many lovely ladies as he can afford to pay off
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    The Biblical parable of the mustard seed

    I'm afraid that one passed me by during my schooling. It doesn't have a catchy name, like those WW2 Battles that sound less important than they were, like Operation Market Garden.

    But I am a sucker for historical analogies.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,854

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    These dinosaur conservatives need to be thrown out of the party
    Isn't it good to have MPs who irritate and obstruct the government so they don't always get their own way?
  • Andy_JS said:

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    These dinosaur conservatives need to be thrown out of the party
    Isn't it good to have MPs who irritate and obstruct the government so they don't always get their own way?
    Not on this issue
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,307

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    What rubbish.
    We build castles in the air all the time. And houses on sand.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500
    So now we get a full debate and vote on Patterson?
    Very good. Carry on.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,177
    dixiedean said:

    So now we get a full debate and vote on Patterson?
    Very good. Carry on.

    Well, quite.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    edited November 15
    Andy_JS said:

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    These dinosaur conservatives need to be thrown out of the party
    Isn't it good to have MPs who irritate and obstruct the government so they don't always get their own way?
    Er, context matters. That's why the oft quoted 'Oppositions oppose' is untrue, because there are many instances, uncontroversial matters, where oppositions don't just automatically oppose. And yes we don't want government to always get their own way, but that is a pretty absurd reading of this vote on the Paterson matter, since the government already didn't get it is own way, that's why this vote came up in the first place.

    But in any case I think from his party perspective the point was it keeps it in the news, which is terrible for them. Was that his motivation because he thinks they deserve to be kicked? Past history suggests not, but we'll see if that was his intent.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,017
    edited November 15
    kle4 said:

    The Biblical parable of the mustard seed

    I'm afraid that one passed me by during my schooling. It doesn't have a catchy name, like those WW2 Battles that sound less important than they were, like Operation Market Garden.

    But I am a sucker for historical analogies.

    You would mistake most UK military operations' names for towns along the A1(M) - and some of them are just that - whereas the US has much more catchy shall we say motivational names - Freedom This, Righteous Fury That, etc
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    Untrue, we are great at building resentment.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,899
    HYUFD said:

    Unless there is a sudden demand in the Redwall for new footwear I don't quite see the comparison.

    The Tories under Boris are also still roughly level with Starmer Labour, not well behind as May was by Spring 2019.

    ReformUK is also merely a minor blip in most polls, not well into double figures as the Brexit Party was polling before May was deposed

    How were the polls looking at the same stage of May's premiership (November 2018)?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,080
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    And the moral is that empires never last when they’re down at heel ?
    Pretty soon they’re on their uppers.

    Unless the boss is given the boot.
    Is he the sole problem, or just an obnoxious pedal extremity ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,348
    Chris said:

    In that photo, Boris Johnson looks more like the Emperor Valerian, "his skin stuffed with straw and preserved as a trophy".

    More like a certain character from The Fast Show

    "This week I have been mostly lying to the electorate."
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,932

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    These dinosaur conservatives need to be thrown out of the party
    Chope does this on all sorts of motions based on some obscure point of principle that only he understands

    This was the one I was thinking of

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/upskirting-bill-law-blocked-criminal-offence-christopher-chope-tory-mp-a8400686.html?amp
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500
    Farooq said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    What rubbish.
    We build castles in the air all the time. And houses on sand.
    We regularly build a bonfire of red tape.
    We just never get around to lighting it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,946
    Excellent photo!

    Following the biblical theme it seems like Russel Brand is continuing his quest to become a mystic with a leaning towards anti vaxing

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJBVMsF5AyA
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,516
    edited November 15

    HYUFD said:

    Unless there is a sudden demand in the Redwall for new footwear I don't quite see the comparison.

    The Tories under Boris are also still roughly level with Starmer Labour, not well behind as May was by Spring 2019.

    ReformUK is also merely a minor blip in most polls, not well into double figures as the Brexit Party was polling before May was deposed

    How were the polls looking at the same stage of May's premiership (November 2018)?
    Also neck and neck but there was no reason to remove May then either, she only really began to trail in Spring 2019 when she delayed Brexit and her core support started defecting in large numbers to Farage's Brexit party. That was when she was replaced
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    edited November 15
    Charles said:

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    These dinosaur conservatives need to be thrown out of the party
    Chope does this on all sorts of motions based on some obscure point of principle that only he understands

    This was the one I was thinking of

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/upskirting-bill-law-blocked-criminal-offence-christopher-chope-tory-mp-a8400686.html?amp
    That no one seems to understand it does, I think, lead to a reasonable conclusion that his purported justifications are not his sole motivation. dixidean makes that point concisely.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500
    edited November 15
    Charles said:

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    These dinosaur conservatives need to be thrown out of the party
    Chope does this on all sorts of motions based on some obscure point of principle that only he understands

    This was the one I was thinking of

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/upskirting-bill-law-blocked-criminal-offence-christopher-chope-tory-mp-a8400686.html?amp
    Mysteriously, his principles don't apply to anything that affects his mates.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,163

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,177
    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    The Biblical parable of the mustard seed

    I'm afraid that one passed me by during my schooling. It doesn't have a catchy name, like those WW2 Battles that sound less important than they were, like Operation Market Garden.

    But I am a sucker for historical analogies.

    You would mistake most UK military operations' names for towns along the A1(M) - and some of them are just that - whereas the US has much more catchy shall we say motivational names - Freedom This, Righteous Fury That, etc
    That's a great system that the US has, but it would obviously have to be adapted for UK sensibilities. Something like 'Operation If We Must', 'Operation What A Bother', 'Operation Best Of A Bad Job'.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,632

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Couldn't put it better myself.

    Utterly crap policy decision.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,085

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    The cross connection is possibly even more important. Manchester to Leeds is a disgrace. And the M62 is barely any better.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358
    Farooq said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    What rubbish.
    We build castles in the air all the time. And houses on sand.
    castles in the air So my Mother can clean them ☺️
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,348

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    The Biblical parable of the mustard seed

    I'm afraid that one passed me by during my schooling. It doesn't have a catchy name, like those WW2 Battles that sound less important than they were, like Operation Market Garden.

    But I am a sucker for historical analogies.

    You would mistake most UK military operations' names for towns along the A1(M) - and some of them are just that - whereas the US has much more catchy shall we say motivational names - Freedom This, Righteous Fury That, etc
    That's a great system that the US has, but it would obviously have to be adapted for UK sensibilities. Something like 'Operation If We Must', 'Operation What A Bother', 'Operation Best Of A Bad Job'.
    The Canadians could have "Operation I Beg Your Pardon", "Operation Excuse Me" and "Operation I'm So Sorry".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,609
    edited November 15
    kle4 said:

    The Biblical parable of the mustard seed

    I'm afraid that one passed me by during my schooling. It doesn't have a catchy name, like those WW2 Battles that sound less important than they were, like Operation Market Garden.

    But I am a sucker for historical analogies.

    The Kingdom of God is described by Jesus as like a mustard seed. A tiny seed that grows into a great plant.

    The Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field; which indeed is smaller than all seeds but when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches.[Matthew 13:31–32]
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,516

    Congratulations to Gareth Southgate and his
    @England
    squad on sealing qualification for next year’s World Cup with tonight's win over San Marino

    https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1460373997267435533?s=20
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500
    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,017

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    The Biblical parable of the mustard seed

    I'm afraid that one passed me by during my schooling. It doesn't have a catchy name, like those WW2 Battles that sound less important than they were, like Operation Market Garden.

    But I am a sucker for historical analogies.

    You would mistake most UK military operations' names for towns along the A1(M) - and some of them are just that - whereas the US has much more catchy shall we say motivational names - Freedom This, Righteous Fury That, etc
    That's a great system that the US has, but it would obviously have to be adapted for UK sensibilities. Something like 'Operation If We Must', 'Operation What A Bother', 'Operation Best Of A Bad Job'.
    LOL absolutely. And then when it seems to be over have the PM standing on the flight deck of HMS Queen Elizabeth in front of a banner saying "Mustn't Grumble".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    It's traditional?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,743

    Well now.

    NEW: A Conservative MP, Christopher Chope, objected to the government's motion to finally approve the standards committee's findings on Owen Paterson. It means govt has to reschedule, probably with a debate. Sleaze agony prolonged

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1460369895149948933

    You can always rely on our "upskirt" hero to deliver.

    The personification of sleaze!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    The Biblical parable of the mustard seed

    I'm afraid that one passed me by during my schooling. It doesn't have a catchy name, like those WW2 Battles that sound less important than they were, like Operation Market Garden.

    But I am a sucker for historical analogies.

    You would mistake most UK military operations' names for towns along the A1(M) - and some of them are just that - whereas the US has much more catchy shall we say motivational names - Freedom This, Righteous Fury That, etc
    That's a great system that the US has, but it would obviously have to be adapted for UK sensibilities. Something like 'Operation If We Must', 'Operation What A Bother', 'Operation Best Of A Bad Job'.
    LOL absolutely. And then when it seems to be over have the PM standing on the flight deck of HMS Queen Elizabeth in front of a banner saying "Mustn't Grumble".
    “Time for a Cuppa”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,085
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,918

    Chris said:

    In that photo, Boris Johnson looks more like the Emperor Valerian, "his skin stuffed with straw and preserved as a trophy".

    I nearly captioned that photo with 'Boris Johnson's entry for the Worzel Gummidge lookalike contest.'
    Strong Fred West energy in that photo.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,163
    edited November 15
    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    We have been over it but other countries manage to do it. As I have said - yes, repeatedly - Manchester/Leeds/Nottingham to Paris would have been competitive routes, probably quicker than air city centre to city centre and very possibly more popular.

    I note that the Dutch didn’t airily say “Amsterdam to London direct was a nice dream but was never going to happen”, they JFDI.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Chris said:

    In that photo, Boris Johnson looks more like the Emperor Valerian, "his skin stuffed with straw and preserved as a trophy".

    I nearly captioned that photo with 'Boris Johnson's entry for the Worzel Gummidge lookalike contest.'
    Strong Fred West energy in that photo.
    I simply find that unnecessary and disgusting no matter how much you dislike him
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,609
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    Yes. Wrecking the chilterns is fine, but woebetide those who want to knock down a few London streets.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,516
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    Fair enough. That has been the general impression for a few decades.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,888
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    Sorry what
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,177
    On HS2, what the government is now proposing may well make sense. But they've made a fetish of 'levelling up', without any substance behind the slogan. This new plan can and will easily be portrayed as the opposite of levelling up, adding to the already astonishingly long list of those betrayed by Boris.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,609

    Chris said:

    In that photo, Boris Johnson looks more like the Emperor Valerian, "his skin stuffed with straw and preserved as a trophy".

    I nearly captioned that photo with 'Boris Johnson's entry for the Worzel Gummidge lookalike contest.'
    Looks like he has had a bit too much cider and Aunt Sally will be giving him an earful.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,017
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    We can go direct to source and ask one of our PB-ers with such a profile just this.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,320
    edited November 15
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    Strange thing to say
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,242
    kle4 said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    Untrue, we are great at building resentment.
    How fcuking dare you suggest that!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    With that approach I take it you would have opposed creation of the railways and the motorway network as well. What? Why would there be any advantage to people moving about the country faster?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,080
    Brilliant, depressing article.

    THE BAD GUYS ARE WINNING
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/12/the-autocrats-are-winning/620526/
    If the 20th century was the story of slow, uneven progress toward the victory of liberal democracy over other ideologies—communism, fascism, virulent nationalism—the 21st century is, so far, a story of the reverse.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    edited November 15
    Delete
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,307

    Dura_Ace said:

    Chris said:

    In that photo, Boris Johnson looks more like the Emperor Valerian, "his skin stuffed with straw and preserved as a trophy".

    I nearly captioned that photo with 'Boris Johnson's entry for the Worzel Gummidge lookalike contest.'
    Strong Fred West energy in that photo.
    I simply find that unnecessary and disgusting no matter how much you dislike him
    I know, he only killed a few girls. He was bad but not BORIS bad.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,080

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    Sorry what
    Just HYUFD illustrating the level of strategic thinking at the DoT.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,266
    I enjoyed Morris Dancer's piece, but I wonder whether the problem is in identifying the shoe ahead of time.

    You could imagine that the argument made to Johnson during the infamous Telegraph dinner was that he had to pay the small price of saving Owen Paterson in order to keep his loyal army of Brexiteer backbenchers, who had won him so many recent political battles that had made him Emperor Prime Minister, happy, loyal and not at all rebellious. Perhaps Johnson saw the minor matter of kicking Paterson's suspension into the long grass of a Parliamentary committee as equivalent to the small price of buying his army new shoes.

    And, if we think about it, Johnson could be forgiven for thinking this was the accurate appraisal of the facts. The Brexiteer backbenchers were his Praetorian Guard, and they had many reasons to be unhappy - months of Covid restrictions still rankles, tax rises, COP26 - to have one of their number dragged over the coals could have been the frayed footwear that sent them over the edge.

    Given all the previous offences to standards of probity and good governance committed by B Johnson it was a massive surprise that this was one that has - at least temporarily - broken the inaccountability shield that normally shrouds the Prime Minister.

    As Morris Dancer's example demonstrates, predicting where this might end up is impossible. The mob is fickle.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,516
    edited November 15
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    With that approach I take it you would have opposed creation of the railways and the motorway network as well. What? Why would there be any advantage to people moving about the country faster?

    We already have a rail network and motorway network we don't need a high speed rail network from London to the North when there is no great demand for it. We also are only a third the landmass of France, they have more room for the TGV without ripping up a big percentage of the countryside. So I have reservations about HS2
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,017
    edited November 15
    Nigelb said:

    Brilliant, depressing article.

    THE BAD GUYS ARE WINNING
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/12/the-autocrats-are-winning/620526/
    If the 20th century was the story of slow, uneven progress toward the victory of liberal democracy over other ideologies—communism, fascism, virulent nationalism—the 21st century is, so far, a story of the reverse.

    Good article. For me the most depressing and curious one is China. After the Deng Xiaoping reforms while not the end of history it did seem as though there was little chance of regression. What Xi has done, both on the mainland and in Hong Kong is simply dreadful and as the article notes, a huge regressive step. And largely unnecessary, given the wealth that a reforming China was delivering to its citizens.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,701
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    We can go direct to source and ask one of our PB-ers with such a profile just this.
    Well, I'm one (Northerner living in North London).

    Have to admit, I think 2 hours to get to Manchester is fine as it is, although I know people say the real benefit of HS2 is increased capacity. I do think though the optics of this are bad for BJ though.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,701
    Dura_Ace said:

    Chris said:

    In that photo, Boris Johnson looks more like the Emperor Valerian, "his skin stuffed with straw and preserved as a trophy".

    I nearly captioned that photo with 'Boris Johnson's entry for the Worzel Gummidge lookalike contest.'
    Strong Fred West energy in that photo.
    That is funny. Not sure you could say Carrie looks like Rose though
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    I enjoyed Morris Dancer's piece, but I wonder whether the problem is in identifying the shoe ahead of time.

    You could imagine that the argument made to Johnson during the infamous Telegraph dinner was that he had to pay the small price of saving Owen Paterson in order to keep his loyal army of Brexiteer backbenchers, who had won him so many recent political battles that had made him Emperor Prime Minister, happy, loyal and not at all rebellious. Perhaps Johnson saw the minor matter of kicking Paterson's suspension into the long grass of a Parliamentary committee as equivalent to the small price of buying his army new shoes.

    And, if we think about it, Johnson could be forgiven for thinking this was the accurate appraisal of the facts. The Brexiteer backbenchers were his Praetorian Guard, and they had many reasons to be unhappy - months of Covid restrictions still rankles, tax rises, COP26 - to have one of their number dragged over the coals could have been the frayed footwear that sent them over the edge.

    Given all the previous offences to standards of probity and good governance committed by B Johnson it was a massive surprise that this was one that has - at least temporarily - broken the inaccountability shield that normally shrouds the Prime Minister.

    As Morris Dancer's example demonstrates, predicting where this might end up is impossible. The mob is fickle.

    There's something in your general point, but given the furore that has erupted from it, the clear unhappiness that was displayed at the time from the rank and file, and that Boris decided to try and force their hand with a last minute 3-line whip, I think it was pretty obvious this is a show they could tell was going to be a problem, even if they underestimated how big a problem.

    Were the Brexiteer awkward squad really in such uproar they needed mollifying in such a way which would cause obvious problems? They had not caused him any major difficulty. Surely not all the Brexiteers were lined up in outrage about Paterson such that protecting him would mollify them?

    As explanations go, and given his history, I'm more inclined to think Boris saw personal advantage in doing it and that he could manage the fallout, rather than he was doing Paterson, or Paterson's mates, a favour to keep them on board.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    With that approach I take it you would have opposed creation of the railways and the motorway network as well. What? Why would there be any advantage to people moving about the country faster?

    We already have a rail network and motorway network we don't need a high speed rail network from London to the North when there is no great demand for it. We also are only a third the landmass of France, they have more room for the TGV without ripping up a big percentage of the countryside. So I have reservations about HS2
    I was not in favour of HS2 either. But your logic that anyone moving to London would have no reason to favour faster travel time, or anyone else in the country would not want to do so, was most peculiar. Whatever the cost benefits of HS2 and other projects, I for one would journey around the country more if it took half the time, because we take advantage of convenience.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,080
    Another, possibly quixotic bid by O’Rourke for the governorship…
    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/15/beto-orourke-texas-governor-campaign-522336
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,516
    Nigelb said:

    Another, possibly quixotic bid by O’Rourke for the governorship…
    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/15/beto-orourke-texas-governor-campaign-522336

    If he couldn't win in Texas in 2018 when there was a blue wave to the Democrats, he certainly won't win statewide in 2022 when the polling suggests a red wave to the GOP
  • Ally_B1Ally_B1 Posts: 15
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    Yes. Wrecking the chilterns is fine, but woebetide those who want to knock down a few London streets.
    I think we should ask the Vogon's if they could assist with this minor reconstruction work.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,348
    One report says Leeds to Sheffield isn't happening but Manchester to somewhere near Huddersfield is.

    What a shit show. They can't even get their leaks to the press right.

    Either that or the policy has actually changed in the past 12 hours. Which would be even more shambolic.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,701
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another, possibly quixotic bid by O’Rourke for the governorship…
    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/15/beto-orourke-texas-governor-campaign-522336

    If he couldn't win in Texas in 2018 when there was a blue wave to the Democrats, he certainly won't win statewide in 2022 when the polling suggests a red wave to the GOP
    Agreed. The latest Texas results also suggest a Hispanic switch to the GOP.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    We can go direct to source and ask one of our PB-ers with such a profile just this.
    Okay. I live in Chelsea and drive to North Riding quite a lot. I used to drive it a lot more before lockdown. I don’t do it using train. I didn’t like the idea of HS2 destroying the countryside. There is probably a green argument HS2 would have reduced car traffic, but do you think it would have?
    But I like driving. Normally I don’t drive it alone, and I do my stint first and then sit in the back with my cams on. I don’t know if this helps? But looking at the comment we are commenting on, it’s quite a closed view about people but all people would be different, some prefer train, some not have reasons to travel so often. And I came before graduation.

    I don’t want to be rude, but why is H Y F U D an ass?
    Or is he an Okapi?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,946
    'Upskirting'. I must have been away when that one hit the headlines. Sounds like quite a niche hobby.
  • TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    We can go direct to source and ask one of our PB-ers with such a profile just this.
    Okay. I live in Chelsea and drive to North Riding quite a lot. I used to drive it a lot more before lockdown. I don’t do it using train. I didn’t like the idea of HS2 destroying the countryside. There is probably a green argument HS2 would have reduced car traffic, but do you think it would have?
    But I like driving. Normally I don’t drive it alone, and I do my stint first and then sit in the back with my cams on. I don’t know if this helps? But looking at the comment we are commenting on, it’s quite a closed view about people but all people would be different, some prefer train, some not have reasons to travel so often. And I came before graduation.

    I don’t want to be rude, but why is H Y F U D an ass?
    Or is he an Okapi?
    @HYUFD is @HYUFD and he is polite
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500
    And so, talk of improved transport infrastructure inevitably becomes a discussion of getting to and from London.
    Sighs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,854

    One report says Leeds to Sheffield isn't happening but Manchester to somewhere near Huddersfield is.

    What a shit show. They can't even get their leaks to the press right.

    Either that or the policy has actually changed in the past 12 hours. Which would be even more shambolic.

    The B'ham to Leeds section of HS2 was arguably the most needed part of the project. Disappointing to see it cancelled.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358
    edited November 15

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    We can’t build fucking anything on this island

    HS2 should have been a source of huge national pride - connecting the great cities of the English north and midlands to the European high speed network. Instead, we are stopping at Euston and forcing northerners to shuffle along the Euston Road with their bags to reach the Eurostar. Oh, and we are cutting Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle out of the project entirely.

    Absolutely pathetic from the hopeless Boris.
    Because you'd have had to level half of Camden for a decade, for about 4 through trains a day, with passport issues unresolved

    We've been over this. Several times. It was a lovely dream but it was never going to happen
    Are you implying that inconvenience to North Londoners takes precedence over the North of England?
    YES
    I presume those Northerners who moved to North London after graduation did so for a reason and not because they wanted to rush back up beyond Watford every 5 minutes outside of Christmas and family events.

    Nor is there any great reason why Northerners would want to go to London in half the time they do now, agreed
    We can go direct to source and ask one of our PB-ers with such a profile just this.
    Okay. I live in Chelsea and drive to North Riding quite a lot. I used to drive it a lot more before lockdown. I don’t do it using train. I didn’t like the idea of HS2 destroying the countryside. There is probably a green argument HS2 would have reduced car traffic, but do you think it would have?
    But I like driving. Normally I don’t drive it alone, and I do my stint first and then sit in the back with my cams on. I don’t know if this helps? But looking at the comment we are commenting on, it’s quite a closed view about people but all people would be different, some prefer train, some not have reasons to travel so often. And I came before graduation.

    I don’t want to be rude, but why is H Y F U D an ass?
    Or is he an Okapi?
    @HYUFD is @HYUFD and he is polite
    I should hope we all are!

    By the way, did you consider doing a zoom for the birthday party?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,854
    Nigelb said:

    Brilliant, depressing article.

    THE BAD GUYS ARE WINNING
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/12/the-autocrats-are-winning/620526/
    If the 20th century was the story of slow, uneven progress toward the victory of liberal democracy over other ideologies—communism, fascism, virulent nationalism—the 21st century is, so far, a story of the reverse.

    The people who invented the internet were hoping it would increase freedom. It looks like they didn't consider the possibility that it might be used by autocratic leaders to reduce it.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,001
    edited November 15
    Newsnight is suggesting that Chope (and Cash) objected to a vote on the Paterson affair tonight because they want a debate on the motion; the vote tonight was due to be held without any discussion. And they want a debate because they think Paterson has been the victim of a great injustice.

    If that's accurate, it's brilliant news. More chance for Labour to benefit from a bit of blue-on-blue action as some Tory MPs try to defend the indefensible.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,266
    Interesting cold plunge in today's ECMWF forecast for next week. I wonder how important the issue of high gas prices will be for the voters of North Shropshire and Old Bexley and Sidcup?
This discussion has been closed.