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Will Paterson be the trigger for the Tories to lose their poll lead? – politicalbetting.com

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  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    It’s hard to remember UK and US politics being in a more broken state. Not much hope either. The situation and prospects in the US are especially dire.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914

    You don't know what you're talking about on this one; you usually do. Who on earth would read Scruton to get an insight into Marxism? That's like reading Marx to get an insight into Trumpism.

    The Frankfurt school were drummed out of Nazi Germany because they had, throughout the 1930s, warned of the dangers of populist fascism. Quite prescient, really. Their main influence, other than Marx, was Gramsci, and his concept of cultural hegemony (the way in which institutions maintain the status quo through dominating cultural discourse). You're a sort of reverse Gramscian - arguing that wokeism has achieved hegemony, when of course that's nonsense.

    As for cultural marxism - that's just a far-right trope to describe people and ideas that they disapprove of.
    It's really not. It's a legitimate term that has been etymologically hijacked by the Left and made "anti Semitic", such that the ONLY Wiki page you can now find, on this subject, is "Cultural Marxism as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory". Tsk

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

    Seriously. Try googling Cultural Marxism by itself, you will be sent back right there. No choice

    But the Left in their kulturkampf have successfully demonised the term, as Douglas Murray describes here:

    https://unherd.com/2019/03/is-cultural-marxism-a-myth/

    So maybe we have to admit defeat, as conservatives, and move on to "Woke". This is why I use Woke. Woke is out the bag and the Left won't be able to contain it. Wokeness IS the Left. Woke will destroy them. Ins'allah
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,838

    You'd have been praising Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s for exactly the same reason.
    When you throw away democracy for temporary political gain... Well, that's the beginning of the end
  • Still.... At least we have conte...

    Always a silver lining somewhere
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281
    edited November 2021
    Charles said:

    Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.

    As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.

    Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
    In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.

    Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Yes, well, all things are relative. I remember teaching a Chinese seminar group and frankly describing the expenses scandal - they fell about laughing at the idea that MPs were doing things like buying large TVs, carpets and duck houses and this was supposed to be a scandal. One said that he thought it was rather sweet by comparison to the abuses that sometimes came to light "in some countries".

    Nonetheless, the existence of worse things does not mean it's not a slippery slope.
    I spent a while in China in the 00's and had several dinners with minor regional communist party figures. And what struck me was that the people were, almost without exception, incredibly clever and wise.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914

    I can see that.

    'Late one night in pre-war Munich, a young English woman, dressed all in black and accompanied by six SS officers in full uniform, climbed the dark stairs to her apartment.
    Once inside she lit two large church candles either side of her bed, their glow revealing enormous swastika banners at its head and silver framed portraits of Adolf Hitler on side tables.
    After sliding off her boots and gauntlet-style gloves, she stepped out of her long black skirt and blindfolded herself with a Nazi armband before lying down, spread-eagled, on the bed.
    One man bound her hands and feet to its four corners while another, in what was obviously a familiar ritual, wound up the gramophone and dropped the needle on to a record of Horst-Wessel-Lied, the Nazi anthem.
    This was the cue for the other officers to remove their boots, belts and uniforms. Then, as the pounding marching song broke the silence, they took it in turns to enjoy the entirely willing object of their desire.'
    Goodness me. Source?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,153
    Leon said:

    It's really not. It's a legitimate term that has been etymologically hijacked by the Left and made "anti Semitic", such that the ONLY Wiki page you can now find, on this subject, is "Cultural Marxism as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory". Tsk

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

    Seriously. Try googling Cultural Marxism by itself, you will be sent back right there. No choice

    But the Left in their kulturkampf have successfully demonised the term, as Douglas Murray describes here:

    https://unherd.com/2019/03/is-cultural-marxism-a-myth/

    So maybe we have to admit defeat, as conservatives, and move on to "Woke". This is why I use Woke. Woke is out the bag and the Left won't be able to contain it. Wokeness IS the Left. Woke will destroy them. Ins'allah
    To be fair, the Wiki page you link to has this at the top: ""Cultural Marxism" redirects here. For "cultural Marxism" in the context of cultural studies, see Marxist cultural analysis." which links to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_cultural_analysis
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    edited November 2021
    HYUFD said:

    In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives eg 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.

    Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
    More maximum your dodgy scheming now - because come the next election you may not be in a position to do so.

    As I pointed out earlier today - from now on every time you get a letter from a Tory MP you will need to explicitly doublecheck if this about a real constituent with a problem or is it on behalf of a firm paying him/her.

    Heck I've even written the process up for Customer Service to follow.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    The American Left needs to be annihilated, and driven into the sea
    I see you are as absolutely tolerant of opinions other than yours as is that Russian guy you admire.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,712
    Leon said:

    It's really not. It's a legitimate term that has been etymologically hijacked by the Left and made "anti Semitic", such that the ONLY Wiki page you can now find, on this subject, is "Cultural Marxism as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory". Tsk

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

    Seriously. Try googling Cultural Marxism by itself, you will be sent back right there. No choice

    But the Left in their kulturkampf have successfully demonised the term, as Douglas Murray describes here:

    https://unherd.com/2019/03/is-cultural-marxism-a-myth/

    So maybe we have to admit defeat, as conservatives, and move on to "Woke". This is why I use Woke. Woke is out the bag and the Left won't be able to contain it. Wokeness IS the Left. Woke will destroy them. Ins'allah
    You're both deranged and rather ignorant on this, I'm afraid. I suggested that Scruton may not be a reliable source on Marxism, and now you compound it with Douglas Murray - wow. I don't think you've ever studied marxism - I have.

    The Frankfurt School were drummed out of Frankfurt by the Nazis. Gramsci was imprisoned by Mussolini - hence his Prison Notebooks. Honestly, these bloody marxists, fighting against fascism - what are they like?

    Anyway, I've been Woke for long enough today. Time for Sleep.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914
    CatMan said:

    To be fair, the Wiki page you link to has this at the top: ""Cultural Marxism" redirects here. For "cultural Marxism" in the context of cultural studies, see Marxist cultural analysis." which links to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_cultural_analysis
    In other words, you are simply not allowed to discuss "Cultural Marxism" per se. Verboten.

    Look at the Wiki history of those pages. A furious war, won by the Left, as is generally the case on Wiki, but not always
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    The Associated Press has just called the NJ-Gov race for Phil Murphy (D). Murphy’s lead is approximate 19,200 votes with an estimated 90% of ballots counted.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281
    edited November 2021
    Charles said:

    I will probably vote Tory but don’t fall into either of your categories
    You fall into at least category a, you voted Leave and also despite your ranting you will vote Tory again as you also on the whole fall into category b too
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    You don't believe in free enterprise and capitalism?
    I believe in free enterprise and capitalism but don’t accept that an MP should be a paid lobbyist outwith the rules
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,299
    isam said:

    People engaged in political debate treat the whole thing like some kind of moral philosophy test. Most people like a move themselves, and couldn't care less if some politicians wet their beak from time to time.
    Spectacular missing of the point. It's a corrupt administration.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,831
    rpjs said:

    The Associated Press has just called the NJ-Gov race for Phil Murphy (D). Murphy’s lead is approximate 19,200 votes with an estimated 90% of ballots counted.

    As I said
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914

    You're both deranged and rather ignorant on this, I'm afraid. I suggested that Scruton may not be a reliable source on Marxism, and now you compound it with Douglas Murray - wow. I don't think you've ever studied marxism - I have.

    The Frankfurt School were drummed out of Frankfurt by the Nazis. Gramsci was imprisoned by Mussolini - hence his Prison Notebooks. Honestly, these bloody marxists, fighting against fascism - what are they like?

    Anyway, I've been Woke for long enough today. Time for Sleep.
    Honestly these Marxists, with their gulags and their famines and their torture and their Pol Pot and their 100 million dead, what are they like?

    The fucking state of you. Sleep well. IF YOU CAN!!!!!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,973
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    Goodness me. Source?
    The Mosley house journal. Over egged I imagine but the Nazi shagging was a real thing I think.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455171/Unity-Mitford-English-debutante-staged-Nazi-orgies-Hitler-lost-virginity-Oswald-Mosley.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281
    rpjs said:

    The Associated Press has just called the NJ-Gov race for Phil Murphy (D). Murphy’s lead is approximate 19,200 votes with an estimated 90% of ballots counted.

    Still an 8% swing to the GOP on 2020 in NJ which would easily see them retake the House next year, with Murphy less than 1% ahead which was far closer than all the final polls had it
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,099
    edited November 2021
    Charles said:

    I believe in free enterprise and capitalism but don’t accept that an MP should be a paid lobbyist outwith the rules
    Good answer.

    Clearly (and not surprisingly) @HYUFD has no such scruples.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281
    edited November 2021
    Charles said:

    I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.

    But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
    If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,314

    How does that Tweet have anything to do with what happened today? That's interesting. Out of curiosity if you're able to say is there much crossover between the support you're getting for this, and the names on the amendment today? If there is then they're being consistent and that would be good to see.
    I did think of that but I haven't checked. I will. Generally the support by MPs is reflection of the number of constituents impacted, which is why it is biased towards Tories as a group of them have a number impacted, although there is also support from SNP, LD, Lab.

    Bizarrely an ex minister who had to defend the status quo when a minister is now a vocal supporter.

    I know you dislike May. I have an irrational reason for doing so. It was rumoured that Osborne and Letwin were on the verge of a deal to solve the issue when Cameron resigned and they were out. Back to square one. The 2019 election stopped our previous bill also.

    Getting stuff done in parliament is a nightmare.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    You fall into at least category a, you voted Leave and also despite your ranting you will vote Tory again as you also on the whole fall into category b too
    I don’t “believe in Boris” - he’s a charismatic bully and chancer - which rules me out of (a).

    But please, where am I “ranting”? An intolerance for breaches of compliance rules doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the free market and capitalism
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,712
    Leon said:

    Honestly these Marxists, with their gulags and their famines and their torture and their Pol Pot and their 100 million dead, what are they like?

    The fucking state of you. Sleep well. IF YOU CAN!!!!!
    An amusingly abusive rebuttal that shows a marked reluctance to answer any of the points made in this or previous posts. I'm having a stiff whisky so will sleep just fine, thanks. Night.
  • HYUFD said:

    If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
    What on earth makes you think that

    This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
  • HYUFD said:

    If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
    I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,099
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    Goodness me. Source?
    A Google search using the first sentence of the quote reveals... The Daily Mail! (Well they should know, I guess)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455171/Unity-Mitford-English-debutante-staged-Nazi-orgies-Hitler-lost-virginity-Oswald-Mosley.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914

    The Mosley house journal. Over egged I imagine but the Nazi shagging was a real thing I think.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455171/Unity-Mitford-English-debutante-staged-Nazi-orgies-Hitler-lost-virginity-Oswald-Mosley.html
    Spicy. It would be more effective is she was remotely attractive, however. Unfortunately she looks like a faintly snooty English beach-donkey
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,314
    HYUFD said:

    If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
    Next you will be saying OJ was innocent.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281

    I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
    You can insult me as much as you want but a majority of MPs today have just overruled the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards who found Paterson guilty of breach of parliamentary lobbying rules.

    That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Farooq said:

    I gave a "like" for what you said, but you would have had one anyway just for the use of "outwith"
    Google seems to think of it as a Scottish terms… but it’s always been the local’s name for Farringdon Without in London
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    What on earth makes you think that

    This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
    They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281
    edited November 2021
    Charles said:

    I don’t “believe in Boris” - he’s a charismatic bully and chancer - which rules me out of (a).

    But please, where am I “ranting”? An intolerance for breaches of compliance rules doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the free market and capitalism
    You believe in Brexit as you voted for it and you believe in capitalism, you are a Tory from central casting if a posher one than Essex Man or the Red Wall newer version and may high handedly occasionally rant against Boris but will vote as you usually do ie blue.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,105
    Peter Bottomley is so transparently honest and decent it seems an act of extreme foolishness to put up Peter Lilley to defend Patterson who appears to be none of those things.
  • Leon said:

    I have NOT been replaced by GPT4

    *weird screen freeze*

    Dildos! I AM EADRIC.
    These flint-knappers are getting quite out of hand! Even I can't understand their logic at times!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281
    kjh said:

    Next you will be saying OJ was innocent.
    In a criminal court he was
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,895
    edited November 2021

    Having seen how the Tories managed to ooze sleaze after too long in power in 80s/90s, it's great to see that past performance can actually be a guide to the future when they get too bloated from having power for too long.....

    This is the big potential disaster for the Tories. It's now become a cultural memory, like the partially correct and partially incorrect, tabloid-framed memory of the late '70s.
  • HYUFD said:

    You can insult me as much as you want but a majority of MPs today have just overruled the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards who found Paterson guilty of breach of parliamentary lobbying rules.

    That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
    250 mps is not a majority of mps, and over 100 conservative mps went missing though 13 of them showed their integrity including Aaron Bell by rejecting this shameful day
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432

    A Google search using the first sentence of the quote reveals... The Daily Mail! (Well they should know, I guess)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455171/Unity-Mitford-English-debutante-staged-Nazi-orgies-Hitler-lost-virginity-Oswald-Mosley.html
    Wow. I though it was @Theuniondivvie spoofing @SeanT (whatever happened to him? Perhaps tertiary syphilis combined with pickling his brain?)
  • Jonathan said:

    They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
    And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    On topic: who the hell is Will Paterson, anyway? And is it Talk Like a Pirate Day on the site?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281

    The Government has whipped its MPs to save a man who egregiously abused his position to feather his nest, you twit. The fact you blather on is a testament to your shortcomings.
    Nonetheless despite Charles' rant at me about 'tarnishing the reputation of Conservatives' that is exactly what a majority of Conservative MPs voted for today. I did not need to do anything
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
    If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281

    250 mps is not a majority of mps, and over 100 conservative mps went missing though 13 of them showed their integrity including Aaron Bell by rejecting this shameful day
    Well 250 MPs is a majority of Conservative MPs and more MPs voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards than voted to uphold their verdict on Paterson
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432
    edited November 2021
    https://twitter.com/john_a_photo/status/1456022157209784320?t=koHRx6SLLytHC2iOksjsMA&s=19

    Spectacular Northern Lights over Loch Lomond tonight. Perfectly timed for COP26. Well done Nicola!


  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Jonathan said:

    Much of the Woke stuff attacked by the right has been happily practiced by the right over the decades. The right have always had their own brand of political correctness and what was McCarthy if not cancel culture.

    Errrr...... are you suggesting people will be laughing at all the woke stuff in the future like people laugh at McCarthy nowadays?
  • Jonathan said:

    If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
    It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
    Talk about dodging the question.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,912
    Jonathan said:

    Much of the Woke stuff attacked by the right has been happily practiced by the right over the decades. The right have always had their own brand of political correctness and what was McCarthy if not cancel culture.

    True but McCarthy was 65-70 years ago.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,895
    edited November 2021
    Foxy said:

    https://twitter.com/john_a_photo/status/1456022157209784320?t=koHRx6SLLytHC2iOksjsMA&s=19

    Spectacular Northern Lights over Loch Lomond tonight. Perfectly timed for COP26. Well done Nicola!


    Looks beautiful. What a shame that so many digital cameras are still incapable of fully capturing that beauty, though, and that film is still considered by so many as unwieldy and inconvenient.
  • HYUFD said:

    Nonetheless despite Charles' rant at me about 'tarnishing the reputation of Conservatives' that is exactly what a majority of Conservative MPs voted for today. I did not need to do anything
    What are you talking about? You are so dim - absolute loyalty because immoral people have the numbers. You are pathetic.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432

    What are you talking about? You are so dim - absolute loyalty because immoral people have the numbers. You are pathetic.
    It's quite lonely as the only Tory in the Village.
  • Jonathan said:

    Talk about dodging the question.
    I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice

    Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281

    I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice

    Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
    Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914

    Errrr...... are you suggesting people will be laughing at all the woke stuff in the future like people laugh at McCarthy nowadays?
    YES
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281
    Foxy said:

    It's quite lonely as the only Tory in the Village.
    PB is far more anti Boris than the country as a whole now, does not bother me at all being in a small minority on here
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,912
    edited November 2021
    O/T

    Sounds like an interesting book.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59149960

    "South African author Damon Galgut has won the prestigious Booker Prize for fiction at the third attempt for his novel The Promise. Galgut, who was previously nominated in 2003 and 2010, picked up the £50,000 prize at a ceremony on Wednesday. The Promise is his ninth novel and follows the decline of one South African family over four decades from the apartheid era to the present day.

    The chair of the judges, Maya Jasanoff, described it as "a tour de force". "It combines an extraordinary story, rich themes and the history of the last 40 years of South Africa in an incredibly well-wrought package," she said. "It manages to pull together the qualities of great storytelling, it has great ideas, it's a book that has a lot to chew on, with remarkable attention to structure and literary style.""
  • I wholeheartedly agree with you.

    If Paterson is guilty then he should be punished. My only objection is that there should be a fair method to determine that he is, and I have never seen a system before where one person can act as judge, jury and executioner with no right of appeal at all.
    Well there is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Dredd

    Not a system most of us would want to live under though, even if it produces some entertaining fiction.
  • HYUFD said:

    Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
    He has plenty to worry about and you just seem in denial at how this looks to decent ordinary folk

    Tomorrow's daily mail is furious and is tearing the party and Boris apart with justification

    Time for Boris to be ousted and someone with integrity take over

    Aaron Bell would be in the frame as I of just 13 decent conservatives who have retained their dignity and integrity on this shameful day
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914
    That Daily Mail article on Unity Mitford is word class

    See this

    "Of Unity’s fascination with all matters sexual there is no doubt, if Litchfield is to be believed. Growing up at Swinbrook House, near the Oxfordshire village of Burford, one of her favourite artists was Hieronymus Bosch, famous for numerous paintings of Purgatory featuring explicitly sexual and violent images."

    See? She liked Hieronymus Bosch age 14 in a posh bit of Oxfordshire, therefore she was sexually obsessed with violence and punishment and THAT'S WHY SHE HAD NAZI THEMED BDSM ORGIES FOR HITLER

    Genius

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455171/Unity-Mitford-English-debutante-staged-Nazi-orgies-Hitler-lost-virginity-Oswald-Mosley.html



  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,912
    Leon said:

    Goodness me. Source?
    "Say not the struggle naught availeth." The inscription on Unity Mitford's gravestone.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Mitford
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281

    He has plenty to worry about and you just seem in denial at how this looks to decent ordinary folk

    Tomorrow's daily mail is furious and is tearing the party and Boris apart with justification

    Time for Boris to be ousted and someone with integrity take over

    Aaron Bell would be in the frame as I of just 13 decent conservatives who have retained their dignity and integrity on this shameful day
    The Daily Mail is rarely not furious, however you can count on one hand the number of Mail readers who will switch to Starmer over this. Much like you they may rant for a day or two but when the news cycle moves on the vast majority of them will be back in the blue column within a week
  • HYUFD said:

    Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
    You voted REMAIN, too. So you are not a true Tory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281

    You voted REMAIN, too. So you are not a true Tory.
    I accepted the result and I did not vote for Blair unlike BigG
  • HYUFD said:

    The Daily Mail is rarely not furious, however you can count on one hand the number of Mail readers who will switch to Starmer over this. Much like you they may rant for a day or two but when the news cycle moves on the vast majority of them will be back in the blue column within a week
    Whatever happens with voting intentions over the coming months today has been a shameful day to be a conservative mp, other than the 13 who stood up for integrity and decency
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914
    edited November 2021
    Again, Peak Daily Mail, and from the same article:

    "Casting himself in the role of Odin, Hitler would come to see Unity as his own personal Valkyrie and, according to David Litchfield, persuade her they could only be together when they were both in the after-life.

    "This idea was encouraged by bisexual Hungarian aristocrat Count Janos Almasy, once the lover of Unity’s brother Tom but soon to become her partner in what she described to Gaby Bentinck as ‘savage fornication’.

    "This took place in his castle on the Austro-Hungarian border."

    Oh God, EDIT, I missed the next paragraph


    "And like both Hitler and Unity, Almasy was fascinated by the occult practice of necromancy — the power of being able to control life and death — and his particular thrill was to deprive his lovers of oxygen at the point of orgasm by means of a silk noose."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,838
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Sounds like an interesting book.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59149960

    "South African author Damon Galgut has won the prestigious Booker Prize for fiction at the third attempt for his novel The Promise. Galgut, who was previously nominated in 2003 and 2010, picked up the £50,000 prize at a ceremony on Wednesday. The Promise is his ninth novel and follows the decline of one South African family over four decades from the apartheid era to the present day.

    The chair of the judges, Maya Jasanoff, described it as "a tour de force". "It combines an extraordinary story, rich themes and the history of the last 40 years of South Africa in an incredibly well-wrought package," she said. "It manages to pull together the qualities of great storytelling, it has great ideas, it's a book that has a lot to chew on, with remarkable attention to structure and literary style.""

    I read his book, The Good Doctor, and it was really excellent.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,838
    Leon said:

    YES
    Wait.

    I though Woke was a religion which would either worship, or be cast out as heretics?
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Say not the struggle naught availeth." The inscription on Unity Mitford's gravestone.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Mitford
    From that article: “ She was conceived in the town of Swastika, Ontario”.
  • HYUFD said:

    I accepted the result and I did not vote for Blair unlike BigG
    Horrid. Loyalty over morality. What a "character" you are.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,895
    edited November 2021

    Whatever happens with voting intentions over the coming months today has been a shameful day to be a conservative mp, other than the 13 who stood up for integrity and decency
    Much as the vote to continue shovelling shit into our seas and rivers also was a couple of weeks back, again to the fury of normally loyal Tory voters, who deluged their MP's with mail. After 12 years in power, the Tory project may be reaching some sort of critical sell-by point of decadence and toxicity.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914
    IshmaelZ said:

    That must be fake, the Daily Mail would say "in his £5m castle on the Austro-Hungarian border."
    "After visiting Hitler's desirable $29m mountain lair with its famous Lulu Guinness upholstery"
  • Much as the vote to continue shovelling shit into our seas and rivers was a couple of weeks back. After 12 years in power, the Tory project may be reaching some sort of critical point of decadence and toxicity.
    This by election on the 2nd December should be interesting

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1456038976590991360?t=NK6sKDhc4jpN1ed39HuCmg&s=19
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,582
    Newsnight suggesting that today's events under the cloak of protecting Paterson is in fact a canny pre-emptive strike by Johnson to undermine future cases against his own alleged indiscretions.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,119

    I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice

    Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
    Lots of people have said that they voted for a Boris Johnson led government, despite his manifest failings, because the alternative was Corbyn.

    Given the amount that you complain about Boris Johnson, with good reason, it seems weird that you have not reached the same stage now that Corbyn is off the scene. Surely, whatever Starmer's shortcomings and lacklustre offering, given that the other choice is Boris Johnson someone who talks about decency and doing the right thing doesn't have a difficult decision at the next election.
  • All of this continues the continuing Americanisation of our politics. In previous years we might dislike each other's policies but we had shared national experience that bound us more tightly together than that. As the WW2 generation pass away, we are losing that glue, and - to be blunt - we are all responsible for that. Look at the level of discourse on here - the personal attacks are getting worse. People are getting more extreme in their views and refuse to interpret other people's motives in anything but the worst possible way. Most of us are silent about this. Shame on us all.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,912
    "People working from home do half an hour less each day, study finds

    Those who have not returned to the office spend less time on employment-related activities and more on housework, research reveals"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/03/people-working-home-do-half-hour-less-day-study-finds/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,157
    @MichaelLCrick
    Newsnight has twice just called the Paterson affair a “lobbying scandal”. I personally think it is a scandal, but it’s wrong for Newsnight, part of a broadcaster which is meant by law to be impartial, to make such a judgement.


    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1456027777128337414
This discussion has been closed.