Everyone in Russia and Eastern Europe has either a personal memory, or the folk memory, of communism, and all its horrors. They can see how Wokeness mirrors its lunacies.
As Putin says in his famous speech
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.
"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
He goes on for another 1000 pretty forensic words....
It is often argued that "wokeism" is cultural Marxism; an argument that is furiously opposed by proponents of said movement. If there's anyone on the planet who knows a thing or two about Marxism, though...
"Cultural Marxism" is broadbrush nonsense that tends to be favoured as a conspiracy theory by the far right, and which laymen wrongly imagine to have been a cultural equivalent of political egalitarianism. "Wokeism" is something slightly different, I would say ; now already both a catch-all conservative term of abuse for anything progressive, as "political correctness", but also relating to some trends on the left that do raise various issues, in their most extreme forms.
No. Cultural Marxism is a precise and meaningful term, descriptive of the intellectual effluent produced by the Frankfurt School, passim
Read more Scruton
You don't know what you're talking about on this one; you usually do. Who on earth would read Scruton to get an insight into Marxism? That's like reading Marx to get an insight into Trumpism.
The Frankfurt school were drummed out of Nazi Germany because they had, throughout the 1930s, warned of the dangers of populist fascism. Quite prescient, really. Their main influence, other than Marx, was Gramsci, and his concept of cultural hegemony (the way in which institutions maintain the (ruling class, capitalist) status quo through dominating cultural discourse). You're a sort of reverse Gramscian - arguing that wokeism has achieved hegemony, when of course that's nonsense.
As for cultural marxism - that's just a far-right trope to describe people and ideas that they disapprove of.
It’s hard to remember UK and US politics being in a more broken state. Not much hope either. The situation and prospects in the US are especially dire.
Everyone in Russia and Eastern Europe has either a personal memory, or the folk memory, of communism, and all its horrors. They can see how Wokeness mirrors its lunacies.
As Putin says in his famous speech
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.
"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
He goes on for another 1000 pretty forensic words....
It is often argued that "wokeism" is cultural Marxism; an argument that is furiously opposed by proponents of said movement. If there's anyone on the planet who knows a thing or two about Marxism, though...
"Cultural Marxism" is broadbrush nonsense that tends to be favoured as a conspiracy theory by the far right, and which laymen wrongly imagine to have been a cultural equivalent of political egalitarianism. "Wokeism" is something slightly different, I would say ; now already both a catch-all conservative term of abuse for anything progressive, as "political correctness", but also relating to some trends on the left that do raise various issues, in their most extreme forms.
No. Cultural Marxism is a precise and meaningful term, descriptive of the intellectual effluent produced by the Frankfurt School, passim
Read more Scruton
No, "Cultural Marxism" is an anti-semitic conspiracy theory favoured by the far Right, a sort of modern Protocols of Zion.
Everyone in Russia and Eastern Europe has either a personal memory, or the folk memory, of communism, and all its horrors. They can see how Wokeness mirrors its lunacies.
As Putin says in his famous speech
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.
"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
He goes on for another 1000 pretty forensic words....
It is often argued that "wokeism" is cultural Marxism; an argument that is furiously opposed by proponents of said movement. If there's anyone on the planet who knows a thing or two about Marxism, though...
"Cultural Marxism" is broadbrush nonsense that tends to be favoured as a conspiracy theory by the far right, and which laymen wrongly imagine to have been a cultural equivalent of political egalitarianism. "Wokeism" is something slightly different, I would say ; now already both a catch-all conservative term of abuse for anything progressive, as "political correctness", but also relating to some trends on the left that do raise various issues, in their most extreme forms.
No. Cultural Marxism is a precise and meaningful term, descriptive of the intellectual effluent produced by the Frankfurt School, passim
Read more Scruton
You don't know what you're talking about on this one; you usually do. Who on earth would read Scruton to get an insight into Marxism? That's like reading Marx to get an insight into Trumpism.
The Frankfurt school were drummed out of Nazi Germany because they had, throughout the 1930s, warned of the dangers of populist fascism. Quite prescient, really. Their main influence, other than Marx, was Gramsci, and his concept of cultural hegemony (the way in which institutions maintain the status quo through dominating cultural discourse). You're a sort of reverse Gramscian - arguing that wokeism has achieved hegemony, when of course that's nonsense.
As for cultural marxism - that's just a far-right trope to describe people and ideas that they disapprove of.
It's really not. It's a legitimate term that has been etymologically hijacked by the Left and made "anti Semitic", such that the ONLY Wiki page you can now find, on this subject, is "Cultural Marxism as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory". Tsk
So maybe we have to admit defeat, as conservatives, and move on to "Woke". This is why I use Woke. Woke is out the bag and the Left won't be able to contain it. Wokeness IS the Left. Woke will destroy them. Ins'allah
OnlyLivingBoy said: » show previous quotes There's a nasty brutal element to the Johnson regime. Absolute loyalty or you swim with the fishes. Eddie Mair had it right when he called Johnson a nasty piece of work.'
I suspect you are right. And that absolutely makes me want to vote for Boris
Post Covid, post Brexit, life is going to hard for Britain, for quite a while. I want some mean nasty fucker with ambition and guile in charge of the country, I don't want the bumbling well-meaning Sir Kir Royale
Yes Boris is cunning and cruel. Perfect. I reckon it was this side that surprised Macron, and entirely blind-sided him, with AUKUS. Hence Macron's enormous pique
Presumably this all ties in with your recent Putin worship.
Worship?!
I have said he is a ferocious autocrat, and deeply reprehensible. Shame on him!
He is also an astute political observer, and operator, hence his remarkable career. Worth listening to, even as he poisons people
Apologies - I thought you were siding with him against the 'Bolshevism' that he says is corrupting the West.
Oh yes I am, absolutely. He's right about Woke and he's right about Bolshevism, and he's right about the analogy between them
At the same time he is a sort-of tyrant who kills his enemies. But then, the US president often kills his enemies with drones, Obama did it, Trump did it. Trump, unlike Putin, tried to enact a violent coup to hold on to power, Putin merely changed the Constitution with a "plebiscite" so as to do the same, with fewer buffalo horns
It is increasingly hard to mark out the West as superior, in multiple ways, and Wokeness is yet another massive count against us
You'd have been praising Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s for exactly the same reason.
When you throw away democracy for temporary political gain... Well, that's the beginning of the end
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
Its not going to work out like that. From now on democracy is a choice between different forms of catastrophe. We should consider ourselves very lucky to have the conservative party; the Patterson scandal and others are nothing compared to Trumps shenanigans.
Yes, well, all things are relative. I remember teaching a Chinese seminar group and frankly describing the expenses scandal - they fell about laughing at the idea that MPs were doing things like buying large TVs, carpets and duck houses and this was supposed to be a scandal. One said that he thought it was rather sweet by comparison to the abuses that sometimes came to light "in some countries".
Nonetheless, the existence of worse things does not mean it's not a slippery slope.
I spent a while in China in the 00's and had several dinners with minor regional communist party figures. And what struck me was that the people were, almost without exception, incredibly clever and wise.
OnlyLivingBoy said: » show previous quotes There's a nasty brutal element to the Johnson regime. Absolute loyalty or you swim with the fishes. Eddie Mair had it right when he called Johnson a nasty piece of work.'
I suspect you are right. And that absolutely makes me want to vote for Boris
Post Covid, post Brexit, life is going to hard for Britain, for quite a while. I want some mean nasty fucker with ambition and guile in charge of the country, I don't want the bumbling well-meaning Sir Kir Royale
Yes Boris is cunning and cruel. Perfect. I reckon it was this side that surprised Macron, and entirely blind-sided him, with AUKUS. Hence Macron's enormous pique
Presumably this all ties in with your recent Putin worship.
Worship?!
I have said he is a ferocious autocrat, and deeply reprehensible. Shame on him!
He is also an astute political observer, and operator, hence his remarkable career. Worth listening to, even as he poisons people
Apologies - I thought you were siding with him against the 'Bolshevism' that he says is corrupting the West.
Oh yes I am, absolutely. He's right about Woke and he's right about Bolshevism, and he's right about the analogy between them
At the same time he is a sort-of tyrant who kills his enemies. But then, the US president often kills his enemies with drones, Obama did it, Trump did it. Trump, unlike Putin, tried to enact a violent coup to hold on to power, Putin merely changed the Constitution with a "plebiscite" so as to do the same, with fewer buffalo horns
It is increasingly hard to mark out the West as superior, in multiple ways, and Wokeness is yet another massive count against us
You'd have been praising Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s for exactly the same reason.
No, I would not
You're the new Unity Mitford.
I can see that.
'Late one night in pre-war Munich, a young English woman, dressed all in black and accompanied by six SS officers in full uniform, climbed the dark stairs to her apartment. Once inside she lit two large church candles either side of her bed, their glow revealing enormous swastika banners at its head and silver framed portraits of Adolf Hitler on side tables. After sliding off her boots and gauntlet-style gloves, she stepped out of her long black skirt and blindfolded herself with a Nazi armband before lying down, spread-eagled, on the bed. One man bound her hands and feet to its four corners while another, in what was obviously a familiar ritual, wound up the gramophone and dropped the needle on to a record of Horst-Wessel-Lied, the Nazi anthem. This was the cue for the other officers to remove their boots, belts and uniforms. Then, as the pounding marching song broke the silence, they took it in turns to enjoy the entirely willing object of their desire.'
Everyone in Russia and Eastern Europe has either a personal memory, or the folk memory, of communism, and all its horrors. They can see how Wokeness mirrors its lunacies.
As Putin says in his famous speech
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.
"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
He goes on for another 1000 pretty forensic words....
It is often argued that "wokeism" is cultural Marxism; an argument that is furiously opposed by proponents of said movement. If there's anyone on the planet who knows a thing or two about Marxism, though...
"Cultural Marxism" is broadbrush nonsense that tends to be favoured as a conspiracy theory by the far right, and which laymen wrongly imagine to have been a cultural equivalent of political egalitarianism. "Wokeism" is something slightly different, I would say ; now already both a catch-all conservative term of abuse for anything progressive, as "political correctness", but also relating to some trends on the left that do raise various issues, in their most extreme forms.
No. Cultural Marxism is a precise and meaningful term, descriptive of the intellectual effluent produced by the Frankfurt School, passim
Read more Scruton
You don't know what you're talking about on this one; you usually do. Who on earth would read Scruton to get an insight into Marxism? That's like reading Marx to get an insight into Trumpism.
The Frankfurt school were drummed out of Nazi Germany because they had, throughout the 1930s, warned of the dangers of populist fascism. Quite prescient, really. Their main influence, other than Marx, was Gramsci, and his concept of cultural hegemony (the way in which institutions maintain the status quo through dominating cultural discourse). You're a sort of reverse Gramscian - arguing that wokeism has achieved hegemony, when of course that's nonsense.
As for cultural marxism - that's just a far-right trope to describe people and ideas that they disapprove of.
It's really not. It's a legitimate term that has been etymologically hijacked by the Left and made "anti Semitic", such that the ONLY Wiki page you can now find, on this subject, is "Cultural Marxism as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory". Tsk
So maybe we have to admit defeat, as conservatives, and move on to "Woke". This is why I use Woke. Woke is out the bag and the Left won't be able to contain it. Wokeness IS the Left. Woke will destroy them. Ins'allah
To be fair, the Wiki page you link to has this at the top: ""Cultural Marxism" redirects here. For "cultural Marxism" in the context of cultural studies, see Marxist cultural analysis." which links to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_cultural_analysis
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives eg 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
More maximum your dodgy scheming now - because come the next election you may not be in a position to do so.
As I pointed out earlier today - from now on every time you get a letter from a Tory MP you will need to explicitly doublecheck if this about a real constituent with a problem or is it on behalf of a firm paying him/her.
Heck I've even written the process up for Customer Service to follow.
"Significant majorities now believe the country is headed in the wrong direction."
"...the crushing setbacks for Democrats in heavily suburban Virginia and New Jersey hinted at a conservative-stoked backlash to the changing mores around race and identity championed by the party, as Republicans relentlessly sought to turn schools into the next front in the country’s culture wars."
NY Times
Not looking good for Biden.
The American Left needs to be annihilated, and driven into the sea
I see you are as absolutely tolerant of opinions other than yours as is that Russian guy you admire.
Everyone in Russia and Eastern Europe has either a personal memory, or the folk memory, of communism, and all its horrors. They can see how Wokeness mirrors its lunacies.
As Putin says in his famous speech
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.
"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
He goes on for another 1000 pretty forensic words....
It is often argued that "wokeism" is cultural Marxism; an argument that is furiously opposed by proponents of said movement. If there's anyone on the planet who knows a thing or two about Marxism, though...
"Cultural Marxism" is broadbrush nonsense that tends to be favoured as a conspiracy theory by the far right, and which laymen wrongly imagine to have been a cultural equivalent of political egalitarianism. "Wokeism" is something slightly different, I would say ; now already both a catch-all conservative term of abuse for anything progressive, as "political correctness", but also relating to some trends on the left that do raise various issues, in their most extreme forms.
No. Cultural Marxism is a precise and meaningful term, descriptive of the intellectual effluent produced by the Frankfurt School, passim
Read more Scruton
You don't know what you're talking about on this one; you usually do. Who on earth would read Scruton to get an insight into Marxism? That's like reading Marx to get an insight into Trumpism.
The Frankfurt school were drummed out of Nazi Germany because they had, throughout the 1930s, warned of the dangers of populist fascism. Quite prescient, really. Their main influence, other than Marx, was Gramsci, and his concept of cultural hegemony (the way in which institutions maintain the status quo through dominating cultural discourse). You're a sort of reverse Gramscian - arguing that wokeism has achieved hegemony, when of course that's nonsense.
As for cultural marxism - that's just a far-right trope to describe people and ideas that they disapprove of.
It's really not. It's a legitimate term that has been etymologically hijacked by the Left and made "anti Semitic", such that the ONLY Wiki page you can now find, on this subject, is "Cultural Marxism as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory". Tsk
So maybe we have to admit defeat, as conservatives, and move on to "Woke". This is why I use Woke. Woke is out the bag and the Left won't be able to contain it. Wokeness IS the Left. Woke will destroy them. Ins'allah
You're both deranged and rather ignorant on this, I'm afraid. I suggested that Scruton may not be a reliable source on Marxism, and now you compound it with Douglas Murray - wow. I don't think you've ever studied marxism - I have.
The Frankfurt School were drummed out of Frankfurt by the Nazis. Gramsci was imprisoned by Mussolini - hence his Prison Notebooks. Honestly, these bloody marxists, fighting against fascism - what are they like?
Anyway, I've been Woke for long enough today. Time for Sleep.
Everyone in Russia and Eastern Europe has either a personal memory, or the folk memory, of communism, and all its horrors. They can see how Wokeness mirrors its lunacies.
As Putin says in his famous speech
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.
"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
He goes on for another 1000 pretty forensic words....
It is often argued that "wokeism" is cultural Marxism; an argument that is furiously opposed by proponents of said movement. If there's anyone on the planet who knows a thing or two about Marxism, though...
"Cultural Marxism" is broadbrush nonsense that tends to be favoured as a conspiracy theory by the far right, and which laymen wrongly imagine to have been a cultural equivalent of political egalitarianism. "Wokeism" is something slightly different, I would say ; now already both a catch-all conservative term of abuse for anything progressive, as "political correctness", but also relating to some trends on the left that do raise various issues, in their most extreme forms.
No. Cultural Marxism is a precise and meaningful term, descriptive of the intellectual effluent produced by the Frankfurt School, passim
Read more Scruton
You don't know what you're talking about on this one; you usually do. Who on earth would read Scruton to get an insight into Marxism? That's like reading Marx to get an insight into Trumpism.
The Frankfurt school were drummed out of Nazi Germany because they had, throughout the 1930s, warned of the dangers of populist fascism. Quite prescient, really. Their main influence, other than Marx, was Gramsci, and his concept of cultural hegemony (the way in which institutions maintain the status quo through dominating cultural discourse). You're a sort of reverse Gramscian - arguing that wokeism has achieved hegemony, when of course that's nonsense.
As for cultural marxism - that's just a far-right trope to describe people and ideas that they disapprove of.
It's really not. It's a legitimate term that has been etymologically hijacked by the Left and made "anti Semitic", such that the ONLY Wiki page you can now find, on this subject, is "Cultural Marxism as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory". Tsk
So maybe we have to admit defeat, as conservatives, and move on to "Woke". This is why I use Woke. Woke is out the bag and the Left won't be able to contain it. Wokeness IS the Left. Woke will destroy them. Ins'allah
To be fair, the Wiki page you link to has this at the top: ""Cultural Marxism" redirects here. For "cultural Marxism" in the context of cultural studies, see Marxist cultural analysis." which links to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_cultural_analysis
In other words, you are simply not allowed to discuss "Cultural Marxism" per se. Verboten.
Look at the Wiki history of those pages. A furious war, won by the Left, as is generally the case on Wiki, but not always
The Associated Press has just called the NJ-Gov race for Phil Murphy (D). Murphy’s lead is approximate 19,200 votes with an estimated 90% of ballots counted.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
It might narrow the Tory lead back to hung parliament territory, I doubt it would put Labour ahead
I will probably vote Tory but don’t fall into either of your categories
You fall into at least category a, you voted Leave and also despite your ranting you will vote Tory again as you also on the whole fall into category b too
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
It might narrow the Tory lead back to hung parliament territory, I doubt it would put Labour ahead
I will probably vote Tory but don’t fall into either of your categories
You don't believe in free enterprise and capitalism?
I believe in free enterprise and capitalism but don’t accept that an MP should be a paid lobbyist outwith the rules
Much of the Woke stuff attacked by the right has been happily practiced by the right over the decades. The right have always had their own brand of political correctness and what was McCarthy if not cancel culture.
Clearly today’s shenanigans are deeply shameful for the conservatives, if they had any shame that is. But the problem is the less politically engaged public, I.e. the 99.9% who don’t post obsessive on pb, won’t care that much, and even if they do, they will probably think that all politicians are the same. Now that may not be fair, but that’s what happens. And to be honest the idea that the conservatives are uniquely bad in this doesn’t really wash. I recall the last labour government. A fair few scandals in that one too. Mandelson? Baroness Scotland? Blunket? And the SNP is not immune. Poor old Nippy has such a poor memory that she should probably be disbarred from office... So a terrible day, and one that will enrage many, especially on pb, but it will be a tiny ripple by the weekend for the public at large.
People engaged in political debate treat the whole thing like some kind of moral philosophy test. Most people like a move themselves, and couldn't care less if some politicians wet their beak from time to time.
Spectacular missing of the point. It's a corrupt administration.
The Associated Press has just called the NJ-Gov race for Phil Murphy (D). Murphy’s lead is approximate 19,200 votes with an estimated 90% of ballots counted.
Everyone in Russia and Eastern Europe has either a personal memory, or the folk memory, of communism, and all its horrors. They can see how Wokeness mirrors its lunacies.
As Putin says in his famous speech
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.
"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
He goes on for another 1000 pretty forensic words....
It is often argued that "wokeism" is cultural Marxism; an argument that is furiously opposed by proponents of said movement. If there's anyone on the planet who knows a thing or two about Marxism, though...
"Cultural Marxism" is broadbrush nonsense that tends to be favoured as a conspiracy theory by the far right, and which laymen wrongly imagine to have been a cultural equivalent of political egalitarianism. "Wokeism" is something slightly different, I would say ; now already both a catch-all conservative term of abuse for anything progressive, as "political correctness", but also relating to some trends on the left that do raise various issues, in their most extreme forms.
No. Cultural Marxism is a precise and meaningful term, descriptive of the intellectual effluent produced by the Frankfurt School, passim
Read more Scruton
You don't know what you're talking about on this one; you usually do. Who on earth would read Scruton to get an insight into Marxism? That's like reading Marx to get an insight into Trumpism.
The Frankfurt school were drummed out of Nazi Germany because they had, throughout the 1930s, warned of the dangers of populist fascism. Quite prescient, really. Their main influence, other than Marx, was Gramsci, and his concept of cultural hegemony (the way in which institutions maintain the status quo through dominating cultural discourse). You're a sort of reverse Gramscian - arguing that wokeism has achieved hegemony, when of course that's nonsense.
As for cultural marxism - that's just a far-right trope to describe people and ideas that they disapprove of.
It's really not. It's a legitimate term that has been etymologically hijacked by the Left and made "anti Semitic", such that the ONLY Wiki page you can now find, on this subject, is "Cultural Marxism as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory". Tsk
So maybe we have to admit defeat, as conservatives, and move on to "Woke". This is why I use Woke. Woke is out the bag and the Left won't be able to contain it. Wokeness IS the Left. Woke will destroy them. Ins'allah
You're both deranged and rather ignorant on this, I'm afraid. I suggested that Scruton may not be a reliable source on Marxism, and now you compound it with Douglas Murray - wow. I don't think you've ever studied marxism - I have.
The Frankfurt School were drummed out of Frankfurt by the Nazis. Gramsci was imprisoned by Mussolini - hence his Prison Notebooks. Honestly, these bloody marxists, fighting against fascism - what are they like?
Anyway, I've been Woke for long enough today. Time for Sleep.
Honestly these Marxists, with their gulags and their famines and their torture and their Pol Pot and their 100 million dead, what are they like?
The fucking state of you. Sleep well. IF YOU CAN!!!!!
OnlyLivingBoy said: » show previous quotes There's a nasty brutal element to the Johnson regime. Absolute loyalty or you swim with the fishes. Eddie Mair had it right when he called Johnson a nasty piece of work.'
I suspect you are right. And that absolutely makes me want to vote for Boris
Post Covid, post Brexit, life is going to hard for Britain, for quite a while. I want some mean nasty fucker with ambition and guile in charge of the country, I don't want the bumbling well-meaning Sir Kir Royale
Yes Boris is cunning and cruel. Perfect. I reckon it was this side that surprised Macron, and entirely blind-sided him, with AUKUS. Hence Macron's enormous pique
Presumably this all ties in with your recent Putin worship.
Worship?!
I have said he is a ferocious autocrat, and deeply reprehensible. Shame on him!
He is also an astute political observer, and operator, hence his remarkable career. Worth listening to, even as he poisons people
Apologies - I thought you were siding with him against the 'Bolshevism' that he says is corrupting the West.
Oh yes I am, absolutely. He's right about Woke and he's right about Bolshevism, and he's right about the analogy between them
At the same time he is a sort-of tyrant who kills his enemies. But then, the US president often kills his enemies with drones, Obama did it, Trump did it. Trump, unlike Putin, tried to enact a violent coup to hold on to power, Putin merely changed the Constitution with a "plebiscite" so as to do the same, with fewer buffalo horns
It is increasingly hard to mark out the West as superior, in multiple ways, and Wokeness is yet another massive count against us
You'd have been praising Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s for exactly the same reason.
No, I would not
You're the new Unity Mitford.
I can see that.
'Late one night in pre-war Munich, a young English woman, dressed all in black and accompanied by six SS officers in full uniform, climbed the dark stairs to her apartment. Once inside she lit two large church candles either side of her bed, their glow revealing enormous swastika banners at its head and silver framed portraits of Adolf Hitler on side tables. After sliding off her boots and gauntlet-style gloves, she stepped out of her long black skirt and blindfolded herself with a Nazi armband before lying down, spread-eagled, on the bed. One man bound her hands and feet to its four corners while another, in what was obviously a familiar ritual, wound up the gramophone and dropped the needle on to a record of Horst-Wessel-Lied, the Nazi anthem. This was the cue for the other officers to remove their boots, belts and uniforms. Then, as the pounding marching song broke the silence, they took it in turns to enjoy the entirely willing object of their desire.'
Goodness me. Source?
The Mosley house journal. Over egged I imagine but the Nazi shagging was a real thing I think.
The Associated Press has just called the NJ-Gov race for Phil Murphy (D). Murphy’s lead is approximate 19,200 votes with an estimated 90% of ballots counted.
Still an 8% swing to the GOP on 2020 in NJ which would easily see them retake the House next year, with Murphy less than 1% ahead which was far closer than all the final polls had it
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
It might narrow the Tory lead back to hung parliament territory, I doubt it would put Labour ahead
I will probably vote Tory but don’t fall into either of your categories
You don't believe in free enterprise and capitalism?
I believe in free enterprise and capitalism but don’t accept that an MP should be a paid lobbyist outwith the rules
Good answer.
Clearly (and not surprisingly) @HYUFD has no such scruples.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
It might narrow the Tory lead back to hung parliament territory, I doubt it would put Labour ahead
I will probably vote Tory but don’t fall into either of your categories
You don't believe in free enterprise and capitalism?
I believe in free enterprise and capitalism but don’t accept that an MP should be a paid lobbyist outwith the rules
I gave a "like" for what you said, but you would have had one anyway just for the use of "outwith"
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
Everyone in Russia and Eastern Europe has either a personal memory, or the folk memory, of communism, and all its horrors. They can see how Wokeness mirrors its lunacies.
As Putin says in his famous speech
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.
"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
He goes on for another 1000 pretty forensic words....
It is often argued that "wokeism" is cultural Marxism; an argument that is furiously opposed by proponents of said movement. If there's anyone on the planet who knows a thing or two about Marxism, though...
"Cultural Marxism" is broadbrush nonsense that tends to be favoured as a conspiracy theory by the far right, and which laymen wrongly imagine to have been a cultural equivalent of political egalitarianism. "Wokeism" is something slightly different, I would say ; now already both a catch-all conservative term of abuse for anything progressive, as "political correctness", but also relating to some trends on the left that do raise various issues, in their most extreme forms.
No. Cultural Marxism is a precise and meaningful term, descriptive of the intellectual effluent produced by the Frankfurt School, passim
Read more Scruton
Did that just come out of a word generator?
“Cultural Marxism” is the old Nazi anti-semitic theory of Cultural Bolshevism repackaged by right wing thought leaders for a new generation. If you want to read the original source of Leon’s dispeptic eruptions on this issue, then look no further than Michael Miniccino’s article on “The Frankfurt School & Political Correctness” which hit every touch stone on this topic back in 1992. (Published in Lyndon La Rouche’s “Fidelio”, which ought to give you an idea of the kind of audience this article was written for.)
Essentially, we have the age old idea that all left-ish thought is part of a plot against all that is good & pure in America; the old days were better; look how terrible they are now; our youth being corrupted by novels/television/whatever the latest bogeyman is this time around. And so on & on & on.
It’s a bit sad that Leon sees people like this as his cultural touchstones to be honest - I’d hoped for something at least a /touch/ more high brow on the ladder of alt-right critiques of modernity.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
If Paterson is guilty then he should be punished. My only objection is that there should be a fair method to determine that he is, and I have never seen a system before where one person can act as judge, jury and executioner with no right of appeal at all.
Thank you. I have to say my argument with you earlier / the other day wasn't on that point so I am happy to concede I agree with you on that. I also don't know enough about the process to know whether it is fair or not.
However I should point out (although this is no justification as two wrongs don't make a right) that there are plenty of situations where there is no appeals process. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, I am involved in a campaign to rectify one of those that is due its 2nd reading in the HofC shortly. It will be interesting to see if it gets Govt support. There was a meeting with the whips last week. I don't want to go into any more details here but for instance you can not appeal a decision by GAD through the PHSO. The Equitable Law situation required a law to be enacted to allow that to happen. I have been 9 years on the campaign I support, others have been going much longer on other campaigns where they can't get a review of a decision, such that many who should be compensated have died since with MPs doing bugger all. Suddenly it is a Tory MP and all the stops are pulled out and over something he had control over compared to many who don't.
I'll be completely honest I didn't understand everything you just wrote, but if a judgment is flawed there should always be an opportunity to appeal it - so I hope you win your campaign.
That's not to say there should be infinite appeals etc or a blank cheque, but there should always be an opportunity if you can demonstrate a genuine flaw in the decision making process to have a chance to have that reviewed.
Thank you. Not hopeful to be honest even though we have cross party support, the majority of which are Tories including ex cabinet ministers. I get involved in too many of these campaigns but I hate to see these injustices.
That's interesting. Out of curiosity if you're able to say is there much crossover between the support you're getting for this, and the names on the amendment today? If there is then they're being consistent and that would be good to see.
I did think of that but I haven't checked. I will. Generally the support by MPs is reflection of the number of constituents impacted, which is why it is biased towards Tories as a group of them have a number impacted, although there is also support from SNP, LD, Lab.
Bizarrely an ex minister who had to defend the status quo when a minister is now a vocal supporter.
I know you dislike May. I have an irrational reason for doing so. It was rumoured that Osborne and Letwin were on the verge of a deal to solve the issue when Cameron resigned and they were out. Back to square one. The 2019 election stopped our previous bill also.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
It might narrow the Tory lead back to hung parliament territory, I doubt it would put Labour ahead
I will probably vote Tory but don’t fall into either of your categories
You fall into at least category a, you voted Leave and also despite your ranting you will vote Tory again as you also on the whole fall into category b too
I don’t “believe in Boris” - he’s a charismatic bully and chancer - which rules me out of (a).
But please, where am I “ranting”? An intolerance for breaches of compliance rules doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the free market and capitalism
Everyone in Russia and Eastern Europe has either a personal memory, or the folk memory, of communism, and all its horrors. They can see how Wokeness mirrors its lunacies.
As Putin says in his famous speech
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.
"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
He goes on for another 1000 pretty forensic words....
It is often argued that "wokeism" is cultural Marxism; an argument that is furiously opposed by proponents of said movement. If there's anyone on the planet who knows a thing or two about Marxism, though...
"Cultural Marxism" is broadbrush nonsense that tends to be favoured as a conspiracy theory by the far right, and which laymen wrongly imagine to have been a cultural equivalent of political egalitarianism. "Wokeism" is something slightly different, I would say ; now already both a catch-all conservative term of abuse for anything progressive, as "political correctness", but also relating to some trends on the left that do raise various issues, in their most extreme forms.
No. Cultural Marxism is a precise and meaningful term, descriptive of the intellectual effluent produced by the Frankfurt School, passim
Read more Scruton
You don't know what you're talking about on this one; you usually do. Who on earth would read Scruton to get an insight into Marxism? That's like reading Marx to get an insight into Trumpism.
The Frankfurt school were drummed out of Nazi Germany because they had, throughout the 1930s, warned of the dangers of populist fascism. Quite prescient, really. Their main influence, other than Marx, was Gramsci, and his concept of cultural hegemony (the way in which institutions maintain the status quo through dominating cultural discourse). You're a sort of reverse Gramscian - arguing that wokeism has achieved hegemony, when of course that's nonsense.
As for cultural marxism - that's just a far-right trope to describe people and ideas that they disapprove of.
It's really not. It's a legitimate term that has been etymologically hijacked by the Left and made "anti Semitic", such that the ONLY Wiki page you can now find, on this subject, is "Cultural Marxism as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory". Tsk
So maybe we have to admit defeat, as conservatives, and move on to "Woke". This is why I use Woke. Woke is out the bag and the Left won't be able to contain it. Wokeness IS the Left. Woke will destroy them. Ins'allah
You're both deranged and rather ignorant on this, I'm afraid. I suggested that Scruton may not be a reliable source on Marxism, and now you compound it with Douglas Murray - wow. I don't think you've ever studied marxism - I have.
The Frankfurt School were drummed out of Frankfurt by the Nazis. Gramsci was imprisoned by Mussolini - hence his Prison Notebooks. Honestly, these bloody marxists, fighting against fascism - what are they like?
Anyway, I've been Woke for long enough today. Time for Sleep.
Honestly these Marxists, with their gulags and their famines and their torture and their Pol Pot and their 100 million dead, what are they like?
The fucking state of you. Sleep well. IF YOU CAN!!!!!
An amusingly abusive rebuttal that shows a marked reluctance to answer any of the points made in this or previous posts. I'm having a stiff whisky so will sleep just fine, thanks. Night.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
OnlyLivingBoy said: » show previous quotes There's a nasty brutal element to the Johnson regime. Absolute loyalty or you swim with the fishes. Eddie Mair had it right when he called Johnson a nasty piece of work.'
I suspect you are right. And that absolutely makes me want to vote for Boris
Post Covid, post Brexit, life is going to hard for Britain, for quite a while. I want some mean nasty fucker with ambition and guile in charge of the country, I don't want the bumbling well-meaning Sir Kir Royale
Yes Boris is cunning and cruel. Perfect. I reckon it was this side that surprised Macron, and entirely blind-sided him, with AUKUS. Hence Macron's enormous pique
Presumably this all ties in with your recent Putin worship.
Worship?!
I have said he is a ferocious autocrat, and deeply reprehensible. Shame on him!
He is also an astute political observer, and operator, hence his remarkable career. Worth listening to, even as he poisons people
Apologies - I thought you were siding with him against the 'Bolshevism' that he says is corrupting the West.
Oh yes I am, absolutely. He's right about Woke and he's right about Bolshevism, and he's right about the analogy between them
At the same time he is a sort-of tyrant who kills his enemies. But then, the US president often kills his enemies with drones, Obama did it, Trump did it. Trump, unlike Putin, tried to enact a violent coup to hold on to power, Putin merely changed the Constitution with a "plebiscite" so as to do the same, with fewer buffalo horns
It is increasingly hard to mark out the West as superior, in multiple ways, and Wokeness is yet another massive count against us
You'd have been praising Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s for exactly the same reason.
No, I would not
You're the new Unity Mitford.
I can see that.
'Late one night in pre-war Munich, a young English woman, dressed all in black and accompanied by six SS officers in full uniform, climbed the dark stairs to her apartment. Once inside she lit two large church candles either side of her bed, their glow revealing enormous swastika banners at its head and silver framed portraits of Adolf Hitler on side tables. After sliding off her boots and gauntlet-style gloves, she stepped out of her long black skirt and blindfolded herself with a Nazi armband before lying down, spread-eagled, on the bed. One man bound her hands and feet to its four corners while another, in what was obviously a familiar ritual, wound up the gramophone and dropped the needle on to a record of Horst-Wessel-Lied, the Nazi anthem. This was the cue for the other officers to remove their boots, belts and uniforms. Then, as the pounding marching song broke the silence, they took it in turns to enjoy the entirely willing object of their desire.'
Goodness me. Source?
A Google search using the first sentence of the quote reveals... The Daily Mail! (Well they should know, I guess)
OnlyLivingBoy said: » show previous quotes There's a nasty brutal element to the Johnson regime. Absolute loyalty or you swim with the fishes. Eddie Mair had it right when he called Johnson a nasty piece of work.'
I suspect you are right. And that absolutely makes me want to vote for Boris
Post Covid, post Brexit, life is going to hard for Britain, for quite a while. I want some mean nasty fucker with ambition and guile in charge of the country, I don't want the bumbling well-meaning Sir Kir Royale
Yes Boris is cunning and cruel. Perfect. I reckon it was this side that surprised Macron, and entirely blind-sided him, with AUKUS. Hence Macron's enormous pique
Presumably this all ties in with your recent Putin worship.
Worship?!
I have said he is a ferocious autocrat, and deeply reprehensible. Shame on him!
He is also an astute political observer, and operator, hence his remarkable career. Worth listening to, even as he poisons people
Apologies - I thought you were siding with him against the 'Bolshevism' that he says is corrupting the West.
Oh yes I am, absolutely. He's right about Woke and he's right about Bolshevism, and he's right about the analogy between them
At the same time he is a sort-of tyrant who kills his enemies. But then, the US president often kills his enemies with drones, Obama did it, Trump did it. Trump, unlike Putin, tried to enact a violent coup to hold on to power, Putin merely changed the Constitution with a "plebiscite" so as to do the same, with fewer buffalo horns
It is increasingly hard to mark out the West as superior, in multiple ways, and Wokeness is yet another massive count against us
You'd have been praising Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s for exactly the same reason.
No, I would not
You're the new Unity Mitford.
I can see that.
'Late one night in pre-war Munich, a young English woman, dressed all in black and accompanied by six SS officers in full uniform, climbed the dark stairs to her apartment. Once inside she lit two large church candles either side of her bed, their glow revealing enormous swastika banners at its head and silver framed portraits of Adolf Hitler on side tables. After sliding off her boots and gauntlet-style gloves, she stepped out of her long black skirt and blindfolded herself with a Nazi armband before lying down, spread-eagled, on the bed. One man bound her hands and feet to its four corners while another, in what was obviously a familiar ritual, wound up the gramophone and dropped the needle on to a record of Horst-Wessel-Lied, the Nazi anthem. This was the cue for the other officers to remove their boots, belts and uniforms. Then, as the pounding marching song broke the silence, they took it in turns to enjoy the entirely willing object of their desire.'
Goodness me. Source?
The Mosley house journal. Over egged I imagine but the Nazi shagging was a real thing I think.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
You can insult me as much as you want but a majority of MPs today have just overruled the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards who found Paterson guilty of breach of parliamentary lobbying rules.
That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
It might narrow the Tory lead back to hung parliament territory, I doubt it would put Labour ahead
I will probably vote Tory but don’t fall into either of your categories
You don't believe in free enterprise and capitalism?
I believe in free enterprise and capitalism but don’t accept that an MP should be a paid lobbyist outwith the rules
I gave a "like" for what you said, but you would have had one anyway just for the use of "outwith"
Google seems to think of it as a Scottish terms… but it’s always been the local’s name for Farringdon Without in London
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
It might narrow the Tory lead back to hung parliament territory, I doubt it would put Labour ahead
I will probably vote Tory but don’t fall into either of your categories
You fall into at least category a, you voted Leave and also despite your ranting you will vote Tory again as you also on the whole fall into category b too
I don’t “believe in Boris” - he’s a charismatic bully and chancer - which rules me out of (a).
But please, where am I “ranting”? An intolerance for breaches of compliance rules doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the free market and capitalism
You believe in Brexit as you voted for it and you believe in capitalism, you are a Tory from central casting if a posher one than Essex Man or the Red Wall newer version and may high handedly occasionally rant against Boris but will vote as you usually do ie blue.
Peter Bottomley is so transparently honest and decent it seems an act of extreme foolishness to put up Peter Lilley to defend Patterson who appears to be none of those things.
Everyone in Russia and Eastern Europe has either a personal memory, or the folk memory, of communism, and all its horrors. They can see how Wokeness mirrors its lunacies.
As Putin says in his famous speech
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.
"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
He goes on for another 1000 pretty forensic words....
It is often argued that "wokeism" is cultural Marxism; an argument that is furiously opposed by proponents of said movement. If there's anyone on the planet who knows a thing or two about Marxism, though...
"Cultural Marxism" is broadbrush nonsense that tends to be favoured as a conspiracy theory by the far right, and which laymen wrongly imagine to have been a cultural equivalent of political egalitarianism. "Wokeism" is something slightly different, I would say ; now already both a catch-all conservative term of abuse for anything progressive, as "political correctness", but also relating to some trends on the left that do raise various issues, in their most extreme forms.
No. Cultural Marxism is a precise and meaningful term, descriptive of the intellectual effluent produced by the Frankfurt School, passim
Read more Scruton
Did that just come out of a word generator?
I have NOT been replaced by GPT4
*weird screen freeze*
Dildos! I AM EADRIC.
These flint-knappers are getting quite out of hand! Even I can't understand their logic at times!
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
Having seen how the Tories managed to ooze sleaze after too long in power in 80s/90s, it's great to see that past performance can actually be a guide to the future when they get too bloated from having power for too long.....
This is the big potential disaster for the Tories. It's now become a cultural memory, like the partially correct and partially incorrect, tabloid-framed memory of the late '70s.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
You can insult me as much as you want but a majority of MPs today have just overruled the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards who found Paterson guilty of breach of parliamentary lobbying rules.
That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
250 mps is not a majority of mps, and over 100 conservative mps went missing though 13 of them showed their integrity including Aaron Bell by rejecting this shameful day
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
You can insult me as much as you want but a majority of MPs today have just overruled the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards who found Paterson guilty of breach of parliamentary lobbying rules.
That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
The Government has whipped its MPs to save a man who egregiously abused his position to feather his nest, you twit. The fact you blather on is a testament to your shortcomings.
OnlyLivingBoy said: » show previous quotes There's a nasty brutal element to the Johnson regime. Absolute loyalty or you swim with the fishes. Eddie Mair had it right when he called Johnson a nasty piece of work.'
I suspect you are right. And that absolutely makes me want to vote for Boris
Post Covid, post Brexit, life is going to hard for Britain, for quite a while. I want some mean nasty fucker with ambition and guile in charge of the country, I don't want the bumbling well-meaning Sir Kir Royale
Yes Boris is cunning and cruel. Perfect. I reckon it was this side that surprised Macron, and entirely blind-sided him, with AUKUS. Hence Macron's enormous pique
Presumably this all ties in with your recent Putin worship.
Worship?!
I have said he is a ferocious autocrat, and deeply reprehensible. Shame on him!
He is also an astute political observer, and operator, hence his remarkable career. Worth listening to, even as he poisons people
Apologies - I thought you were siding with him against the 'Bolshevism' that he says is corrupting the West.
Oh yes I am, absolutely. He's right about Woke and he's right about Bolshevism, and he's right about the analogy between them
At the same time he is a sort-of tyrant who kills his enemies. But then, the US president often kills his enemies with drones, Obama did it, Trump did it. Trump, unlike Putin, tried to enact a violent coup to hold on to power, Putin merely changed the Constitution with a "plebiscite" so as to do the same, with fewer buffalo horns
It is increasingly hard to mark out the West as superior, in multiple ways, and Wokeness is yet another massive count against us
You'd have been praising Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s for exactly the same reason.
No, I would not
You're the new Unity Mitford.
I can see that.
'Late one night in pre-war Munich, a young English woman, dressed all in black and accompanied by six SS officers in full uniform, climbed the dark stairs to her apartment. Once inside she lit two large church candles either side of her bed, their glow revealing enormous swastika banners at its head and silver framed portraits of Adolf Hitler on side tables. After sliding off her boots and gauntlet-style gloves, she stepped out of her long black skirt and blindfolded herself with a Nazi armband before lying down, spread-eagled, on the bed. One man bound her hands and feet to its four corners while another, in what was obviously a familiar ritual, wound up the gramophone and dropped the needle on to a record of Horst-Wessel-Lied, the Nazi anthem. This was the cue for the other officers to remove their boots, belts and uniforms. Then, as the pounding marching song broke the silence, they took it in turns to enjoy the entirely willing object of their desire.'
Goodness me. Source?
A Google search using the first sentence of the quote reveals... The Daily Mail! (Well they should know, I guess)
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
You can insult me as much as you want but a majority of MPs today have just overruled the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards who found Paterson guilty of breach of parliamentary lobbying rules.
That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
The Government has whipped its MPs to save a man who egregiously abused his position to feather his nest, you twit. The fact you blather on is a testament to your shortcomings.
Nonetheless despite Charles' rant at me about 'tarnishing the reputation of Conservatives' that is exactly what a majority of Conservative MPs voted for today. I did not need to do anything
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
You can insult me as much as you want but a majority of MPs today have just overruled the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards who found Paterson guilty of breach of parliamentary lobbying rules.
That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
250 mps is not a majority of mps, and over 100 conservative mps went missing though 13 of them showed their integrity including Aaron Bell by rejecting this shameful day
Well 250 MPs is a majority of Conservative MPs and more MPs voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards than voted to uphold their verdict on Paterson
He was a nice chap, very much as the obituary describes. He nearly stood down after 1992 but decided to have one more shot to try to help Ken Clarke win the leadership.
We had an unaggressive election, by explicit agreement. As I said in my maiden speech, he'd declined to win an easy vote in a public meeting when the questioner asked to be reassured on something and Jim had politely refused, and it was one of those moments when you suspected that your opponent might be the better man. We stayed in touch afterwards - he bore no malice over the result, and came to dine with me in the Commons. He said out of the blue that he'd known I'd be pleasant as he knew Nick Scott, who I'd stood against in Chelsea in 1983 - we'd stayed in touch too by Christmas cards for years afterwards. All of that said, he wasn't a weak-minded or apologetic man - he had firm opinions which he expressed gruffly. But a good man.
Much of the Woke stuff attacked by the right has been happily practiced by the right over the decades. The right have always had their own brand of political correctness and what was McCarthy if not cancel culture.
Errrr...... are you suggesting people will be laughing at all the woke stuff in the future like people laugh at McCarthy nowadays?
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Much of the Woke stuff attacked by the right has been happily practiced by the right over the decades. The right have always had their own brand of political correctness and what was McCarthy if not cancel culture.
Spectacular Northern Lights over Loch Lomond tonight. Perfectly timed for COP26. Well done Nicola!
Looks beautiful. What a shame that so many digital cameras are still incapable of fully capturing that beauty, though, and that film is still considered by so many as unwieldy and inconvenient.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
You can insult me as much as you want but a majority of MPs today have just overruled the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards who found Paterson guilty of breach of parliamentary lobbying rules.
That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
The Government has whipped its MPs to save a man who egregiously abused his position to feather his nest, you twit. The fact you blather on is a testament to your shortcomings.
Nonetheless despite Charles' rant at me about 'tarnishing the reputation of Conservatives' that is exactly what a majority of Conservative MPs voted for today. I did not need to do anything
What are you talking about? You are so dim - absolute loyalty because immoral people have the numbers. You are pathetic.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
You can insult me as much as you want but a majority of MPs today have just overruled the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards who found Paterson guilty of breach of parliamentary lobbying rules.
That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
The Government has whipped its MPs to save a man who egregiously abused his position to feather his nest, you twit. The fact you blather on is a testament to your shortcomings.
Nonetheless despite Charles' rant at me about 'tarnishing the reputation of Conservatives' that is exactly what a majority of Conservative MPs voted for today. I did not need to do anything
What are you talking about? You are so dim - absolute loyalty because immoral people have the numbers. You are pathetic.
It's quite lonely as the only Tory in the Village.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
Much of the Woke stuff attacked by the right has been happily practiced by the right over the decades. The right have always had their own brand of political correctness and what was McCarthy if not cancel culture.
Errrr...... are you suggesting people will be laughing at all the woke stuff in the future like people laugh at McCarthy nowadays?
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption, regardless of what the Commissioner for Standards says. Certainly at least in terms of the current way standards investigations are conducted
I'm surely you're lovely as a person but you are painfully thick.
You can insult me as much as you want but a majority of MPs today have just overruled the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards who found Paterson guilty of breach of parliamentary lobbying rules.
That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
The Government has whipped its MPs to save a man who egregiously abused his position to feather his nest, you twit. The fact you blather on is a testament to your shortcomings.
Nonetheless despite Charles' rant at me about 'tarnishing the reputation of Conservatives' that is exactly what a majority of Conservative MPs voted for today. I did not need to do anything
What are you talking about? You are so dim - absolute loyalty because immoral people have the numbers. You are pathetic.
It's quite lonely as the only Tory in the Village.
PB is far more anti Boris than the country as a whole now, does not bother me at all being in a small minority on here
Spectacular Northern Lights over Loch Lomond tonight. Perfectly timed for COP26. Well done Nicola!
I was out again this evening looking, but too much cloud this far east. We had some gaps in the cloud northwards, and there was a faint green glow visible in the haze, but nothing like this weekend's spectacular. Came home when the cloud above decided to empty on us.
"South African author Damon Galgut has won the prestigious Booker Prize for fiction at the third attempt for his novel The Promise. Galgut, who was previously nominated in 2003 and 2010, picked up the £50,000 prize at a ceremony on Wednesday. The Promise is his ninth novel and follows the decline of one South African family over four decades from the apartheid era to the present day.
The chair of the judges, Maya Jasanoff, described it as "a tour de force". "It combines an extraordinary story, rich themes and the history of the last 40 years of South Africa in an incredibly well-wrought package," she said. "It manages to pull together the qualities of great storytelling, it has great ideas, it's a book that has a lot to chew on, with remarkable attention to structure and literary style.""
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
If Paterson is guilty then he should be punished. My only objection is that there should be a fair method to determine that he is, and I have never seen a system before where one person can act as judge, jury and executioner with no right of appeal at all.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
He has plenty to worry about and you just seem in denial at how this looks to decent ordinary folk
Tomorrow's daily mail is furious and is tearing the party and Boris apart with justification
Time for Boris to be ousted and someone with integrity take over
Aaron Bell would be in the frame as I of just 13 decent conservatives who have retained their dignity and integrity on this shameful day
That Daily Mail article on Unity Mitford is word class
See this
"Of Unity’s fascination with all matters sexual there is no doubt, if Litchfield is to be believed. Growing up at Swinbrook House, near the Oxfordshire village of Burford, one of her favourite artists was Hieronymus Bosch, famous for numerous paintings of Purgatory featuring explicitly sexual and violent images."
See? She liked Hieronymus Bosch age 14 in a posh bit of Oxfordshire, therefore she was sexually obsessed with violence and punishment and THAT'S WHY SHE HAD NAZI THEMED BDSM ORGIES FOR HITLER
OnlyLivingBoy said: » show previous quotes There's a nasty brutal element to the Johnson regime. Absolute loyalty or you swim with the fishes. Eddie Mair had it right when he called Johnson a nasty piece of work.'
I suspect you are right. And that absolutely makes me want to vote for Boris
Post Covid, post Brexit, life is going to hard for Britain, for quite a while. I want some mean nasty fucker with ambition and guile in charge of the country, I don't want the bumbling well-meaning Sir Kir Royale
Yes Boris is cunning and cruel. Perfect. I reckon it was this side that surprised Macron, and entirely blind-sided him, with AUKUS. Hence Macron's enormous pique
Presumably this all ties in with your recent Putin worship.
Worship?!
I have said he is a ferocious autocrat, and deeply reprehensible. Shame on him!
He is also an astute political observer, and operator, hence his remarkable career. Worth listening to, even as he poisons people
Apologies - I thought you were siding with him against the 'Bolshevism' that he says is corrupting the West.
Oh yes I am, absolutely. He's right about Woke and he's right about Bolshevism, and he's right about the analogy between them
At the same time he is a sort-of tyrant who kills his enemies. But then, the US president often kills his enemies with drones, Obama did it, Trump did it. Trump, unlike Putin, tried to enact a violent coup to hold on to power, Putin merely changed the Constitution with a "plebiscite" so as to do the same, with fewer buffalo horns
It is increasingly hard to mark out the West as superior, in multiple ways, and Wokeness is yet another massive count against us
You'd have been praising Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s for exactly the same reason.
No, I would not
You're the new Unity Mitford.
I can see that.
'Late one night in pre-war Munich, a young English woman, dressed all in black and accompanied by six SS officers in full uniform, climbed the dark stairs to her apartment. Once inside she lit two large church candles either side of her bed, their glow revealing enormous swastika banners at its head and silver framed portraits of Adolf Hitler on side tables. After sliding off her boots and gauntlet-style gloves, she stepped out of her long black skirt and blindfolded herself with a Nazi armband before lying down, spread-eagled, on the bed. One man bound her hands and feet to its four corners while another, in what was obviously a familiar ritual, wound up the gramophone and dropped the needle on to a record of Horst-Wessel-Lied, the Nazi anthem. This was the cue for the other officers to remove their boots, belts and uniforms. Then, as the pounding marching song broke the silence, they took it in turns to enjoy the entirely willing object of their desire.'
Goodness me. Source?
"Say not the struggle naught availeth." The inscription on Unity Mitford's gravestone.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
He has plenty to worry about and you just seem in denial at how this looks to decent ordinary folk
Tomorrow's daily mail is furious and is tearing the party and Boris apart with justification
Time for Boris to be ousted and someone with integrity take over
Aaron Bell would be in the frame as I of just 13 decent conservatives who have retained their dignity and integrity on this shameful day
The Daily Mail is rarely not furious, however you can count on one hand the number of Mail readers who will switch to Starmer over this. Much like you they may rant for a day or two but when the news cycle moves on the vast majority of them will be back in the blue column within a week
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
You voted REMAIN, too. So you are not a true Tory.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
You voted REMAIN, too. So you are not a true Tory.
I accepted the result and I did not vote for Blair unlike BigG
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
He has plenty to worry about and you just seem in denial at how this looks to decent ordinary folk
Tomorrow's daily mail is furious and is tearing the party and Boris apart with justification
Time for Boris to be ousted and someone with integrity take over
Aaron Bell would be in the frame as I of just 13 decent conservatives who have retained their dignity and integrity on this shameful day
The Daily Mail is rarely not furious, however you can count on one hand the number of Mail readers who will switch to Starmer over this. Much like you they may rant for a day or two but when the news cycle moves on the vast majority of them will be back in the blue column within a week
Whatever happens with voting intentions over the coming months today has been a shameful day to be a conservative mp, other than the 13 who stood up for integrity and decency
Again, Peak Daily Mail, and from the same article:
"Casting himself in the role of Odin, Hitler would come to see Unity as his own personal Valkyrie and, according to David Litchfield, persuade her they could only be together when they were both in the after-life.
"This idea was encouraged by bisexual Hungarian aristocrat Count Janos Almasy, once the lover of Unity’s brother Tom but soon to become her partner in what she described to Gaby Bentinck as ‘savage fornication’.
"This took place in his castle on the Austro-Hungarian border."
Oh God, EDIT, I missed the next paragraph
"And like both Hitler and Unity, Almasy was fascinated by the occult practice of necromancy — the power of being able to control life and death — and his particular thrill was to deprive his lovers of oxygen at the point of orgasm by means of a silk noose."
"South African author Damon Galgut has won the prestigious Booker Prize for fiction at the third attempt for his novel The Promise. Galgut, who was previously nominated in 2003 and 2010, picked up the £50,000 prize at a ceremony on Wednesday. The Promise is his ninth novel and follows the decline of one South African family over four decades from the apartheid era to the present day.
The chair of the judges, Maya Jasanoff, described it as "a tour de force". "It combines an extraordinary story, rich themes and the history of the last 40 years of South Africa in an incredibly well-wrought package," she said. "It manages to pull together the qualities of great storytelling, it has great ideas, it's a book that has a lot to chew on, with remarkable attention to structure and literary style.""
I read his book, The Good Doctor, and it was really excellent.
Much of the Woke stuff attacked by the right has been happily practiced by the right over the decades. The right have always had their own brand of political correctness and what was McCarthy if not cancel culture.
Errrr...... are you suggesting people will be laughing at all the woke stuff in the future like people laugh at McCarthy nowadays?
YES
Wait.
I though Woke was a religion which would either worship, or be cast out as heretics?
OnlyLivingBoy said: » show previous quotes There's a nasty brutal element to the Johnson regime. Absolute loyalty or you swim with the fishes. Eddie Mair had it right when he called Johnson a nasty piece of work.'
I suspect you are right. And that absolutely makes me want to vote for Boris
Post Covid, post Brexit, life is going to hard for Britain, for quite a while. I want some mean nasty fucker with ambition and guile in charge of the country, I don't want the bumbling well-meaning Sir Kir Royale
Yes Boris is cunning and cruel. Perfect. I reckon it was this side that surprised Macron, and entirely blind-sided him, with AUKUS. Hence Macron's enormous pique
Presumably this all ties in with your recent Putin worship.
Worship?!
I have said he is a ferocious autocrat, and deeply reprehensible. Shame on him!
He is also an astute political observer, and operator, hence his remarkable career. Worth listening to, even as he poisons people
Apologies - I thought you were siding with him against the 'Bolshevism' that he says is corrupting the West.
Oh yes I am, absolutely. He's right about Woke and he's right about Bolshevism, and he's right about the analogy between them
At the same time he is a sort-of tyrant who kills his enemies. But then, the US president often kills his enemies with drones, Obama did it, Trump did it. Trump, unlike Putin, tried to enact a violent coup to hold on to power, Putin merely changed the Constitution with a "plebiscite" so as to do the same, with fewer buffalo horns
It is increasingly hard to mark out the West as superior, in multiple ways, and Wokeness is yet another massive count against us
You'd have been praising Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s for exactly the same reason.
No, I would not
You're the new Unity Mitford.
I can see that.
'Late one night in pre-war Munich, a young English woman, dressed all in black and accompanied by six SS officers in full uniform, climbed the dark stairs to her apartment. Once inside she lit two large church candles either side of her bed, their glow revealing enormous swastika banners at its head and silver framed portraits of Adolf Hitler on side tables. After sliding off her boots and gauntlet-style gloves, she stepped out of her long black skirt and blindfolded herself with a Nazi armband before lying down, spread-eagled, on the bed. One man bound her hands and feet to its four corners while another, in what was obviously a familiar ritual, wound up the gramophone and dropped the needle on to a record of Horst-Wessel-Lied, the Nazi anthem. This was the cue for the other officers to remove their boots, belts and uniforms. Then, as the pounding marching song broke the silence, they took it in turns to enjoy the entirely willing object of their desire.'
Goodness me. Source?
"Say not the struggle naught availeth." The inscription on Unity Mitford's gravestone.
Again, Peak Daily Mail, and from the same article:
"Casting himself in the role of Odin, Hitler would come to see Unity as his own personal Valkyrie and, according to David Litchfield, persuade her they could only be together when they were both in the after-life.
"This idea was encouraged by bisexual Hungarian aristocrat Count Janos Almasy, once the lover of Unity’s brother Tom but soon to become her partner in what she described to Gaby Bentinck as ‘savage fornication’.
"This took place in his castle on the Austro-Hungarian border."
That must be fake, the Daily Mail would say "in his £5m castle on the Austro-Hungarian border."
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
You voted REMAIN, too. So you are not a true Tory.
I accepted the result and I did not vote for Blair unlike BigG
Horrid. Loyalty over morality. What a "character" you are.
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
He has plenty to worry about and you just seem in denial at how this looks to decent ordinary folk
Tomorrow's daily mail is furious and is tearing the party and Boris apart with justification
Time for Boris to be ousted and someone with integrity take over
Aaron Bell would be in the frame as I of just 13 decent conservatives who have retained their dignity and integrity on this shameful day
The Daily Mail is rarely not furious, however you can count on one hand the number of Mail readers who will switch to Starmer over this. Much like you they may rant for a day or two but when the news cycle moves on the vast majority of them will be back in the blue column within a week
Whatever happens with voting intentions over the coming months today has been a shameful day to be a conservative mp, other than the 13 who stood up for integrity and decency
Much as the vote to continue shovelling shit into our seas and rivers also was a couple of weeks back, again to the fury of normally loyal Tory voters, who deluged their MP's with mail. After 12 years in power, the Tory project may be reaching some sort of critical sell-by point of decadence and toxicity.
Again, Peak Daily Mail, and from the same article:
"Casting himself in the role of Odin, Hitler would come to see Unity as his own personal Valkyrie and, according to David Litchfield, persuade her they could only be together when they were both in the after-life.
"This idea was encouraged by bisexual Hungarian aristocrat Count Janos Almasy, once the lover of Unity’s brother Tom but soon to become her partner in what she described to Gaby Bentinck as ‘savage fornication’.
"This took place in his castle on the Austro-Hungarian border."
That must be fake, the Daily Mail would say "in his £5m castle on the Austro-Hungarian border."
"After visiting Hitler's desirable $29m mountain lair with its famous Lulu Guinness upholstery"
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Well if Starmer cannot even win over you BigG after tonight, a Remainer who voted for Blair and who has been ranting about this vote on Paterson all evening, what on earth has Boris got to worry about?
He has plenty to worry about and you just seem in denial at how this looks to decent ordinary folk
Tomorrow's daily mail is furious and is tearing the party and Boris apart with justification
Time for Boris to be ousted and someone with integrity take over
Aaron Bell would be in the frame as I of just 13 decent conservatives who have retained their dignity and integrity on this shameful day
The Daily Mail is rarely not furious, however you can count on one hand the number of Mail readers who will switch to Starmer over this. Much like you they may rant for a day or two but when the news cycle moves on the vast majority of them will be back in the blue column within a week
Whatever happens with voting intentions over the coming months today has been a shameful day to be a conservative mp, other than the 13 who stood up for integrity and decency
Much as the vote to continue shovelling shit into our seas and rivers was a couple of weeks back. After 12 years in power, the Tory project may be reaching some sort of critical point of decadence and toxicity.
This by election on the 2nd December should be interesting
Newsnight suggesting that today's events under the cloak of protecting Paterson is in fact a canny pre-emptive strike by Johnson to undermine future cases against his own alleged indiscretions.
Newsnight suggesting that today's events under the cloak of protecting Paterson is in fact a canny pre-emptive strike by Johnson to undermine future cases against his own alleged indiscretions.
I can't believe that Boris would do anything so self serving
If you are still voting Tory it is a) because you are a Leaver and believe in Boris and Brexit and this is unlikely to shift you to Starmer Labour or LD or b) because you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in which case a bit of paid for lobbying for a private company is hardly the end of the world even if found not to technically be fully within parliamentary rules.
HYUFD I'm a bit surprised by you re b) as I think of you as quite a moral person. I am a believer in free enterprise and capitalism and ran my own company and I represented the interest of a quite a few significant organisations. But in the agreement I drew up to cover our relationship I ensured there could be no conflict of interest like this. None of my customers actually gave a damn provided I did the job, but I wanted to ensure I could never be accused of such rightly or wrongly and I would never have done so even innocently. I went to great lengths to ensure this eg any payment from someone for say a stand at a meeting I organised would either go to the direct to the venue and not via me, or if to me I would use it clearly for the benefit of my customers eg reduced fees.
You can be both honest and a capitalist.
Fair enough but then you are a LD capitalist not a full red blooded Tory capitalist, the latter are unlikely to leave the Tories and if they do would be more likely to go ReformUK than Labour or LD
Bullshit. Corruption is corruption.
As I was told when starting my career: your reputation is valuable, but you can only sell it once.
Don’t tarnish the reputation of the conservatives with your ridiculous claims
In case you have been unable to access the news all day you may not have noticed a majority of my fellow Conservatives ie 250 out of 365 Conservative MPs, have just voted to overrule the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and prevent Paterson from being suspended for breach of parliamentary lobbying rules and instead ordered a full review of standards investigations.
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
I haven’t had the time to review the specific of the Patterson case so make no comment on that. But there is a process whereby MPs can accept or reject the recommendation of the committee.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
If a majority of MPs say it is OK it seems it is not corruption
What on earth makes you think that
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
They’ve been in too long and are far too comfortable. We need them to start to worry about their jobs.
And for that to happen opposition parties need to up their game
If there were a general election today, would you vote against the government and celebrate a Labour led government?
It is a good job there is not an election in the offing because I have no idea what a labour party would do, nor the lib dems
Talk about dodging the question.
I am not going to vote for any party without a clear choice
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Lots of people have said that they voted for a Boris Johnson led government, despite his manifest failings, because the alternative was Corbyn.
Given the amount that you complain about Boris Johnson, with good reason, it seems weird that you have not reached the same stage now that Corbyn is off the scene. Surely, whatever Starmer's shortcomings and lacklustre offering, given that the other choice is Boris Johnson someone who talks about decency and doing the right thing doesn't have a difficult decision at the next election.
All of this continues the continuing Americanisation of our politics. In previous years we might dislike each other's policies but we had shared national experience that bound us more tightly together than that. As the WW2 generation pass away, we are losing that glue, and - to be blunt - we are all responsible for that. Look at the level of discourse on here - the personal attacks are getting worse. People are getting more extreme in their views and refuse to interpret other people's motives in anything but the worst possible way. Most of us are silent about this. Shame on us all.
@MichaelLCrick Newsnight has twice just called the Paterson affair a “lobbying scandal”. I personally think it is a scandal, but it’s wrong for Newsnight, part of a broadcaster which is meant by law to be impartial, to make such a judgement.
Comments
The Frankfurt school were drummed out of Nazi Germany because they had, throughout the 1930s, warned of the dangers of populist fascism. Quite prescient, really. Their main influence, other than Marx, was Gramsci, and his concept of cultural hegemony (the way in which institutions maintain the (ruling class, capitalist) status quo through dominating cultural discourse). You're a sort of reverse Gramscian - arguing that wokeism has achieved hegemony, when of course that's nonsense.
As for cultural marxism - that's just a far-right trope to describe people and ideas that they disapprove of.
Yes it really is a Right wing antisemitic conspiracy theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
Seriously. Try googling Cultural Marxism by itself, you will be sent back right there. No choice
But the Left in their kulturkampf have successfully demonised the term, as Douglas Murray describes here:
https://unherd.com/2019/03/is-cultural-marxism-a-myth/
So maybe we have to admit defeat, as conservatives, and move on to "Woke". This is why I use Woke. Woke is out the bag and the Left won't be able to contain it. Wokeness IS the Left. Woke will destroy them. Ins'allah
Always a silver lining somewhere
Not much 'corruption is corruption' from Conservatives today
As I pointed out earlier today - from now on every time you get a letter from a Tory MP you will need to explicitly doublecheck if this about a real constituent with a problem or is it on behalf of a firm paying him/her.
Heck I've even written the process up for Customer Service to follow.
The Frankfurt School were drummed out of Frankfurt by the Nazis. Gramsci was imprisoned by Mussolini - hence his Prison Notebooks. Honestly, these bloody marxists, fighting against fascism - what are they like?
Anyway, I've been Woke for long enough today. Time for Sleep.
Look at the Wiki history of those pages. A furious war, won by the Left, as is generally the case on Wiki, but not always
The fucking state of you. Sleep well. IF YOU CAN!!!!!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455171/Unity-Mitford-English-debutante-staged-Nazi-orgies-Hitler-lost-virginity-Oswald-Mosley.html
Clearly (and not surprisingly) @HYUFD has no such scruples.
But I am disturbed that you imply corruption is ok if a majority of MPs say it is ok.
Essentially, we have the age old idea that all left-ish thought is part of a plot against all that is good & pure in America; the old days were better; look how terrible they are now; our youth being corrupted by novels/television/whatever the latest bogeyman is this time around. And so on & on & on.
It’s a bit sad that Leon sees people like this as his cultural touchstones to be honest - I’d hoped for something at least a /touch/ more high brow on the ladder of alt-right critiques of modernity.
Bizarrely an ex minister who had to defend the status quo when a minister is now a vocal supporter.
I know you dislike May. I have an irrational reason for doing so. It was rumoured that Osborne and Letwin were on the verge of a deal to solve the issue when Cameron resigned and they were out. Back to square one. The 2019 election stopped our previous bill also.
Getting stuff done in parliament is a nightmare.
But please, where am I “ranting”? An intolerance for breaches of compliance rules doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the free market and capitalism
This is a bad day for decency and integrity in 250 conservative mps
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455171/Unity-Mitford-English-debutante-staged-Nazi-orgies-Hitler-lost-virginity-Oswald-Mosley.html
That may have been largely about process but the fact is indisputable
https://www.facebook.com/messenger_media/?thread_id=1041776101&attachment_id=4435249636544604&message_id=mid.$cAAAAACB0PTqDGOjxNV856OdXIvmD
He was a nice chap, very much as the obituary describes. He nearly stood down after 1992 but decided to have one more shot to try to help Ken Clarke win the leadership.
We had an unaggressive election, by explicit agreement. As I said in my maiden speech, he'd declined to win an easy vote in a public meeting when the questioner asked to be reassured on something and Jim had politely refused, and it was one of those moments when you suspected that your opponent might be the better man. We stayed in touch afterwards - he bore no malice over the result, and came to dine with me in the Commons. He said out of the blue that he'd known I'd be pleasant as he knew Nick Scott, who I'd stood against in Chelsea in 1983 - we'd stayed in touch too by Christmas cards for years afterwards. All of that said, he wasn't a weak-minded or apologetic man - he had firm opinions which he expressed gruffly. But a good man.
Spectacular Northern Lights over Loch Lomond tonight. Perfectly timed for COP26. Well done Nicola!
Remember I did vote Blair twice, so it is upto labour to make their case which at present is non existent
Sounds like an interesting book.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59149960
"South African author Damon Galgut has won the prestigious Booker Prize for fiction at the third attempt for his novel The Promise. Galgut, who was previously nominated in 2003 and 2010, picked up the £50,000 prize at a ceremony on Wednesday. The Promise is his ninth novel and follows the decline of one South African family over four decades from the apartheid era to the present day.
The chair of the judges, Maya Jasanoff, described it as "a tour de force". "It combines an extraordinary story, rich themes and the history of the last 40 years of South Africa in an incredibly well-wrought package," she said. "It manages to pull together the qualities of great storytelling, it has great ideas, it's a book that has a lot to chew on, with remarkable attention to structure and literary style.""
Not a system most of us would want to live under though, even if it produces some entertaining fiction.
Tomorrow's daily mail is furious and is tearing the party and Boris apart with justification
Time for Boris to be ousted and someone with integrity take over
Aaron Bell would be in the frame as I of just 13 decent conservatives who have retained their dignity and integrity on this shameful day
See this
"Of Unity’s fascination with all matters sexual there is no doubt, if Litchfield is to be believed. Growing up at Swinbrook House, near the Oxfordshire village of Burford, one of her favourite artists was Hieronymus Bosch, famous for numerous paintings of Purgatory featuring explicitly sexual and violent images."
See? She liked Hieronymus Bosch age 14 in a posh bit of Oxfordshire, therefore she was sexually obsessed with violence and punishment and THAT'S WHY SHE HAD NAZI THEMED BDSM ORGIES FOR HITLER
Genius
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455171/Unity-Mitford-English-debutante-staged-Nazi-orgies-Hitler-lost-virginity-Oswald-Mosley.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Mitford
"Casting himself in the role of Odin, Hitler would come to see Unity as his own personal Valkyrie and, according to David Litchfield, persuade her they could only be together when they were both in the after-life.
"This idea was encouraged by bisexual Hungarian aristocrat Count Janos Almasy, once the lover of Unity’s brother Tom but soon to become her partner in what she described to Gaby Bentinck as ‘savage fornication’.
"This took place in his castle on the Austro-Hungarian border."
Oh God, EDIT, I missed the next paragraph
"And like both Hitler and Unity, Almasy was fascinated by the occult practice of necromancy — the power of being able to control life and death — and his particular thrill was to deprive his lovers of oxygen at the point of orgasm by means of a silk noose."
I though Woke was a religion which would either worship, or be cast out as heretics?
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1456038976590991360?t=NK6sKDhc4jpN1ed39HuCmg&s=19
Given the amount that you complain about Boris Johnson, with good reason, it seems weird that you have not reached the same stage now that Corbyn is off the scene. Surely, whatever Starmer's shortcomings and lacklustre offering, given that the other choice is Boris Johnson someone who talks about decency and doing the right thing doesn't have a difficult decision at the next election.
Those who have not returned to the office spend less time on employment-related activities and more on housework, research reveals"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/03/people-working-home-do-half-hour-less-day-study-finds/
Newsnight has twice just called the Paterson affair a “lobbying scandal”. I personally think it is a scandal, but it’s wrong for Newsnight, part of a broadcaster which is meant by law to be impartial, to make such a judgement.
https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1456027777128337414