Let’s Get This Party Started – politicalbetting.com

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Let’s Get This Party Started – politicalbetting.com

When I saw this betting market from Smarkets on Trump creating or affiliating with a new political party my reaction was why would Trump create or join a new political party?

Read the full story here

ClippP

First...... And there is not much of 2021 left......

DecrepiterJohnL

ClippP said:

First...... And there is not much of 2021 left......

62 days to Christmas; 11 to Diwali.

ydoethur

It’s not Trump that would create a breakaway party, it’s the moderates that can’t stand being led by a complete lunatic any more.

Sadly, there don’t seem to be many left in the Republican Party.

ydoethur

DecrepiterJohnL said:

ClippP said:

First...... And there is not much of 2021 left......

62 days to Christmas; 11 to Diwali.

Or 35 teaching days, as we would count it.

DecrepiterJohnL

ydoethur said:

It’s not Trump that would create a breakaway party, it’s the moderates that can’t stand being led by a complete lunatic any more.

Sadly, there don’t seem to be many left in the Republican Party.

We need to be careful about confusing opposition to Trump with moderation. Common objections to Trump is that he is chaotic, unreliable and corrupt. Many who would make those charges are content with tax cuts for the rich, stacking the courts (not just the Supreme Court) and gerrymandering.

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

F1: interesting grid for the race. Not a fan of late starts, though. Unsure if there'll be a post-race ramble (try to hide your sorrow) as, traditionally, I work on Mondays.

ydoethur

DecrepiterJohnL said:

ydoethur said:

It’s not Trump that would create a breakaway party, it’s the moderates that can’t stand being led by a complete lunatic any more.

Sadly, there don’t seem to be many left in the Republican Party.

We need to be careful about confusing opposition to Trump with moderation. Common objections to Trump is that he is chaotic, unreliable and corrupt. Many who would make those charges are content with tax cuts for the rich, stacking the courts (not just the Supreme Court) and gerrymandering.

Fair point. But equally, such people will ultimately back Trump because he furthers their interests. Or at least, they think he does. We saw that with the Senate hearings.

ydoethur

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

F1: interesting grid for the race. Not a fan of late starts, though. Unsure if there'll be a post-race ramble (try to hide your sorrow) as, traditionally, I work on Mondays.

Looking at that grid, what are the odds on a first corner crash?

darkage

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Doethur, yes.

Actually, one of the bets I'm weighing up is Perez to win, and the potential for one or both of the title contenders to fail to finish the first lap is a factor I'm bearing in mind for that.

Edited extra bit: brilliantly, the stupid early start means almost no markets are up. Humbug!

Dura_Ace

Trump doesn't need to form a new party as the GOP is the MAGA Party now. He may hold the threat of it over them to get them to do his bidding.

DecrepiterJohnL

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Again, I'm not sure moderation versus extremism is the key axis. Boris is surely not an extremist, to take the example closest to home; some would doubt Boris has any political convictions at all. Nor is Trump. Demagogues, perhaps, tolerated by their respective parties while their charisma delivers the electoral goods. Is that the same for Putin, Xi, and in the news today, Erdogan?

ydoethur

DecrepiterJohnL said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Again, I'm not sure moderation versus extremism is the key axis. Boris is surely not an extremist, to take the example closest to home; some would doubt Boris has any political convictions at all. Nor is Trump. Demagogues, perhaps, tolerated by their respective parties while their charisma delivers the electoral goods. Is that the same for Putin, Xi, and in the news today, Erdogan?

Modi, Duterte, Bennett, Obrador, Bolsonaro, Maduro…

HYUFD

There is no doubt the old Republican party elite despise Trump. 2/3 of the living former GOP presidents and presidential nominees, Romney and Bush refused to vote for him (Bush voted only for Congress in 2016 and 2020) and Romney of course voted to impeach Trump too. McCain and Bush's father when they were alive despised him too. Only Dole offered even token support.

However it makes no sense for Trump to start a new party and split the right when he needs a united right to win the EC and to win Congress and most of the GOP voter base and most GOP House representatives and many GOP Senators, state governors and legislators still back him

HYUFD

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

OldKingCole

Good morning everyone. Two very noisy cricket matches later today.

On topic, as other have said, surely it's the other way round. Trump has 'captured' the Republican Party in a way which I can't recall any American politician, even Reagan or Kennedy, doing in the past.
If I were a Republican with doubts about Trump, I would be wondering about the future After Trump.
When he goes, will the pragmatic right-of-centrists recapture the GOP or will it dissolve into a mass of more or less revolutionary groups of right-wingers, and American nationalists?

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

Boris Johnson is an extremist Johnsonite.

DecrepiterJohnL

HYUFD said:

There is no doubt the old Republican party elite despise Trump. 2/3 of the living former GOP presidents and presidential nominees, Romney and Bush refused to vote for him (Bush voted only for Congress in 2016 and 2020) and Romney of course voted to impeach Trump too. Only Dole offered even token support.

However it makes no sense for Trump to start a new party and split the right when he needs a united right to win the EC and to win Congress and most of the GOP voter base and most GOP House representatives and many GOP Senators, state governors and legislators still back him

It is such an odd market, where "no" stands already at 1.01, that one wonders if Shadsy has heard of some new development that has passed me by. If there is no prospect of Trump setting up a new party, why create the market in the first place? (The paranoid would continue this train of thought to its conclusion that Shadsy must know something and therefore we should back "yes".) If the market is repeated in future years, it might become a sort-of hedge against nomination betting, but it is not that yet.

ydoethur

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

Boris Johnson is an extremist Johnsonite.

A Greasy Johnsonite?

(With apologies to Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman.)

Dura_Ace

I can't believe the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz© has let the Nation's Permanently Angry First Wife™ upstage him here. Flying out to a fleg bedecked carrier in a COD Merlin from INS Shikra is sort of nonsense he fucking loves.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1451900208426541067

That fucking photo. LOL.

OldKingCole

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

Boris Johnson is an extremist Johnsonite.

A Greasy Johnsonite?

(With apologies to Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman.)

Such a shame Sir Terry isn't here to write about current events.

Philip_Thompson

Dura_Ace said:

I can't believe the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz© has let the Nation's Permanently Angry First Wife™ upstage him here. Flying out to a fleg bedecked carrier in a COD Merlin from INS Shikra is sort of nonsense he fucking loves.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1451900208426541067

That fucking photo. LOL.

The only thing odd about that Tweet is the hysterical responses underneath crying about the UKs Indo Pacific tilt.

Morris_Dancer

Betting Post

F1: pre-race ramble
https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2021/10/usa-pre-race-2021.html

Backed Perez, each way, for the win at 14, third the odds top 2. Impressive throughout qualifying, barely behind Hamilton on pace, and there's a reasonable chance one or both of Verstappen and Hamilton will end up not making it around the first lap.

Edited extra bit: as an optional add-on, you may wish to hedge at 3 on Betfair.

Taz

Philip_Thompson said:

Dura_Ace said:

I can't believe the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz© has let the Nation's Permanently Angry First Wife™ upstage him here. Flying out to a fleg bedecked carrier in a COD Merlin from INS Shikra is sort of nonsense he fucking loves.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1451900208426541067

That fucking photo. LOL.

The only thing odd about that Tweet is the hysterical responses underneath crying about the UKs Indo Pacific tilt.

The hysterical twitter responses are not odd in the slightest. What would be odd would be if these idiots didn’t reply with those sort of comments.

darkage

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

rcs1000

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Aren't you rather twisting reality to fit your thesis?

rcs1000

Where's @rural_voter when you need him?

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/10/ivermectin-research-problems/620473/

Stocky

FPT:

Leon: "I think it is understandable fear and even paranoia. Because of recent history. The lockdowns got increasingly worse even as they kept saying ‘this will never happen again’

I know a lot of people - eg me - who were properly fucked up by lockdown 3. Psychologically. There are others like me on here

We’re scared. Because we have been here before and the optimists were wrong"


Some of us said last March/April that we were more scared of the politicians and public's reaction than the virus itself. That feeling is re-surfacing again isn't it. I'm hoping Javid holds ground - I have more faith in him than I did Hancock.

"Save the NHS" they said at the start - does the NHS need saving now?

If so, after the stunning success and wide take-up of the vaccines, we are in big trouble. Facts don't seem to matter. It is scary. If the national religion says it's in trouble then it is. Rather than the NHS serving us I'm afraid I'm coming round to the view that it has way too much power and we are serving it.

OldKingCole

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

Stocky

Morris_Dancer said:

Betting Post

F1: pre-race ramble
https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2021/10/usa-pre-race-2021.html

Backed Perez, each way, for the win at 14, third the odds top 2. Impressive throughout qualifying, barely behind Hamilton on pace, and there's a reasonable chance one or both of Verstappen and Hamilton will end up not making it around the first lap.

Edited extra bit: as an optional add-on, you may wish to hedge at 3 on Betfair.

I realise that Bottas has a poor grid position due to a penalty, but given the pile-up possibilities early on in this race what do you think about a small stake on him e/w at the very eye-catching odds available?

Stocky

Dura_Ace said:

I can't believe the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz© has let the Nation's Permanently Angry First Wife™ upstage him here. Flying out to a fleg bedecked carrier in a COD Merlin from INS Shikra is sort of nonsense he fucking loves.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1451900208426541067

That fucking photo. LOL.

©

lol

Taz

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

But is he. At the moment it is hard to see what exactly he, and labour, is offering as an alternative vision to the govt. what does he offer to the Red wall and other left behind areas. At least the Tories talk of levelling up and seem to do something, Labour don’t.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Stocky, brilliantly, I backed him before I knew he had a grid penalty, so it's a no go for me.

He's going to struggle, I fear, because the Mercedes has been a bit slidey and the McLarens and Ferraris are surprisingly fast. Also, only Sainz, I think, in the top 10 is on the soft tyre.

Bottas best chance might come with a fortuitously timed safety car or rain. Generally, Hamilton-Verstappen clashes haven't really involved others. There's always a chance of a big pile-up but that also presents a risk to Bottas.

Depends on the odds. At 26 (having just checked) I'd personally be disinclined, but it's not a daft bet. I just think he might have more trouble than the Mercedes usually would because the McLarens and Ferraris are looking very good.

Morris_Dancer

Just one thing to add: if you think something's value, back it. Even if others disagree.

An early lesson I had on this was when I tipped, but didn't back, Button at 71 to win the 2009 title.

Philip_Thompson

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

Scott_xP

Will Trump's new party be as successful as his new social media venture?

Creative online Trump mockery!

“As (Stephen) #Colbert explained, when (#Trump’s) site briefly went live on Wed, someone started a fake account in the former president’s name and promptly posted a photo of a ‘pig defecating on its own scrotum.’”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-colbert-trolls-trumps-pathetic-truth-social-media-platform?via=ios

Sandpit

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Doethur, yes.

Actually, one of the bets I'm weighing up is Perez to win, and the potential for one or both of the title contenders to fail to finish the first lap is a factor I'm bearing in mind for that.

Edited extra bit: brilliantly, the stupid early start means almost no markets are up. Humbug!

Lay both of the front row to lead the first lap, was one I was thinking about.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Sandpit, Hamilton's lay, last I check, was 5 for that. Unsure of Verstappen's but his back, I think, was 1.26. Race start is going to be spicy.

RochdalePioneers

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

Mexicanpete

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

Johnson WAS a moderate, but he sold his soul to the extremist elements of his party exclusively to become Prime Minister.

darkage

rcs1000 said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Aren't you rather twisting reality to fit your thesis?

I understand that this is a well known problem in the history of science, and one that it seems we cannot escape from. You can make the case (moderate or radical) either way with all of the above, with the exception perhaps of Merkel.

In more general terms, people clearly want some kind of fundamental change; as others have pointed out; Starmer isn't offering it. The strategy seems to be to hope that the government fall apart and then just be there as the obvious alternative when the moment comes. Fair enough, but not particuarly inspiring.

Sandpit

Philip_Thompson said:

Dura_Ace said:

I can't believe the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz© has let the Nation's Permanently Angry First Wife™ upstage him here. Flying out to a fleg bedecked carrier in a COD Merlin from INS Shikra is sort of nonsense he fucking loves.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1451900208426541067

That fucking photo. LOL.

The only thing odd about that Tweet is the hysterical responses underneath crying about the UKs Indo Pacific tilt.

FBPE Twitter really doesn’t like Truss - she campaigned for Remain, but accepted the result and now seeks to maximise the advantages of leaving the EU.

Sandpit

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Sandpit, Hamilton's lay, last I check, was 5 for that. Unsure of Verstappen's but his back, I think, was 1.26. Race start is going to be spicy.

Thanks, will take a look later. (Can’t get to Betfair from work, and I think they might have KYC’d me which is going to be a nightmare).

Mexicanpete

Taz said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

But is he. At the moment it is hard to see what exactly he, and labour, is offering as an alternative vision to the govt. what does he offer to the Red wall and other left behind areas. At least the Tories talk of levelling up and seem to do something, Labour don’t.

Off topic

He offered Plan B (to much derision on here I may add) a week before it looks like it will be mobilised by Johnson.

P.S. Starmer remains a disappointment, but less of a disappointment than Johnson.

Stocky

Lay prices to be first lap leader: Verstappen 1.74 Hamilton 3.4

turbotubbs

rcs1000 said:

Where's @rural_voter when you need him?

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/10/ivermectin-research-problems/620473/

He’ll be lost in some dark corner of the internet where Covid is a hoax, ivermectin is effective at treating Covid and there is no contradict between the first two statements.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Sandpit, my sympathies. At least you weren't KYCC'd. That was annoying.

Jonathan

Mexicanpete said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

Johnson WAS a moderate, but he sold his soul to the extremist elements of his party exclusively to become Prime Minister.

Johnson WAS a moderate when moderation was popular, when the wind changed, so did he. As someone said up thread, Johnson is an extreme Johnsonite, nothing more, nothing less.

turbotubbs

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

People don’t want shit government, but what options did they have in 2019? Most want competent government that doesn’t meddle in their lives too much, keeps the lights on and the schools running. Most of the time we’d be better off with civil servants doing the actual running, as in reality they do. Every now and again the civil servants need bringing back in touch with the rest of the population, via a change of government.

Dura_Ace

RochdalePioneers said:

Fat Lying Sack of Jizz .

I might get some merch made.

Foxy

Dura_Ace said:

I can't believe the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz© has let the Nation's Permanently Angry First Wife™ upstage him here. Flying out to a fleg bedecked carrier in a COD Merlin from INS Shikra is sort of nonsense he fucking loves.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1451900208426541067

That fucking photo. LOL.

I liked this little poem in the comments:

I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I'll find is loads of shit and a soup of e Coli;

Brexshit is getting more literal!

Nigelb

DecrepiterJohnL said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Again, I'm not sure moderation versus extremism is the key axis. Boris is surely not an extremist, to take the example closest to home; some would doubt Boris has any political convictions at all. Nor is Trump. Demagogues, perhaps, tolerated by their respective parties while their charisma delivers the electoral goods. Is that the same for Putin, Xi, and in the news today, Erdogan?

The last three are authoritarians, Xi with a totalitarian states, and the other two wannabees. Trump aspires to have similar powers to the latter two.
None could be described as moderates.

Nigelb

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Stocky, brilliantly, I backed him before I knew he had a grid penalty, so it's a no go for me.

He's going to struggle, I fear, because the Mercedes has been a bit slidey and the McLarens and Ferraris are surprisingly fast. Also, only Sainz, I think, in the top 10 is on the soft tyre.

Bottas best chance might come with a fortuitously timed safety car or rain. Generally, Hamilton-Verstappen clashes haven't really involved others. There's always a chance of a big pile-up but that also presents a risk to Bottas.

Depends on the odds. At 26 (having just checked) I'd personally be disinclined, but it's not a daft bet. I just think he might have more trouble than the Mercedes usually would because the McLarens and Ferraris are looking very good.

Track temperature did for Mercedes in qualifying - for whatever reason, they are consistently worse when it’s hot.

Philip_Thompson

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

Quite reasonable for politicians to have a vision, its kind of what we are debating and going for in politics. If you know what someone's vision is, you can sort of expect how they'd handle the unforeseen etc.

What do we get from Starmer? No vision, no competence. Just an abyss of void hoping to win by default of not being anyone else.

If that wins its an even sadder reflection on our politics.

Mexicanpete

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

Quite reasonable for politicians to have a vision, its kind of what we are debating and going for in politics. If you know what someone's vision is, you can sort of expect how they'd handle the unforeseen etc.

What do we get from Starmer? No vision, no competence. Just an abyss of void hoping to win by default of not being anyone else.

If that wins its an even sadder reflection on our politics.

Remind me. What is Johnson's "vision"? And I don't mean three word sound bites and empty platitudes.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. B, yeah, that's one reason why I was tempted by Verstappen at 4.5 for pole... but didn't go for it because (partly) third practice hadn't happened.

Temperatures are meant to be similar during the race.

Scott_xP

Mexicanpete said:

Remind me. What is Johnson's "vision"?

To be World King.

Philip_Thompson

Morris_Dancer said:

Just one thing to add: if you think something's value, back it. Even if others disagree.

An early lesson I had on this was when I tipped, but didn't back, Button at 71 to win the 2009 title.

Ironically I wrote my piece tipping Sunak at 200/1 (boostable to 250/1) and then nearly pressed send on the email to submit it to the site without having backed him first. I wrote it because I thought it was a good tip and nearly didn't even think to back it myself and only then thought "hold on, if I'm right I really should bet on this myself too".

If I'd written that but not got on it myself, I'd be very gutted right now.

Philip_Thompson

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

Quite reasonable for politicians to have a vision, its kind of what we are debating and going for in politics. If you know what someone's vision is, you can sort of expect how they'd handle the unforeseen etc.

What do we get from Starmer? No vision, no competence. Just an abyss of void hoping to win by default of not being anyone else.

If that wins its an even sadder reflection on our politics.

Remind me. What is Johnson's "vision"? And I don't mean three word sound bites and empty platitudes.

I think he's a soft liberal "One Nation" Conservative, who believes that Britain can better run itself and that "levelling up" etc comes from that "One Nation"-ism.

I may be wrong on that, but its the impression I get from him.

squareroot2

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

Quite reasonable for politicians to have a vision, its kind of what we are debating and going for in politics. If you know what someone's vision is, you can sort of expect how they'd handle the unforeseen etc.

What do we get from Starmer? No vision, no competence. Just an abyss of void hoping to win by default of not being anyone else.

If that wins its an even sadder reflection on our politics.

Remind me. What is Johnson's "vision"? And I don't mean three word sound bites and empty platitudes.

I think you need to relieve some personal tension.

OldKingCole

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

Quite reasonable for politicians to have a vision, its kind of what we are debating and going for in politics. If you know what someone's vision is, you can sort of expect how they'd handle the unforeseen etc.

What do we get from Starmer? No vision, no competence. Just an abyss of void hoping to win by default of not being anyone else.

If that wins its an even sadder reflection on our politics.

I think, from what I've read and heard that his vision is something based on his childhood life. A safe, secure home for all, opportunity for all and as comfortable an old age as is achievable. Meanwhile Dad and perhaps Mum go to work in secure jobs.
And people are, mostly, kind to one another. And when they aren't, an efficient police force catches them.
Whether that's achievable, or for some, desirable is a different matter.

squareroot2

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

OldKingCole

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

If it is, it puts me off going back!

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Thompson, aye, something like that makes the boost function very handy indeed.

Gallowgate

Philip_Thompson said:

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

Quite reasonable for politicians to have a vision, its kind of what we are debating and going for in politics. If you know what someone's vision is, you can sort of expect how they'd handle the unforeseen etc.

What do we get from Starmer? No vision, no competence. Just an abyss of void hoping to win by default of not being anyone else.

If that wins its an even sadder reflection on our politics.

Remind me. What is Johnson's "vision"? And I don't mean three word sound bites and empty platitudes.

I think he's a soft liberal "One Nation" Conservative, who believes that Britain can better run itself and that "levelling up" etc comes from that "One Nation"-ism.

I may be wrong on that, but its the impression I get from him.

Surely not?

Philip_Thompson

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

"Fuck Brexit" was what they put on their EP manifesto after the nation voted for Brexit wasn't it?

turbotubbs

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

Nah, I think it’s the Scottish influence. He moved nearer to a certain other poster whose potty mouth is legendary...

Scott_xP

.@RishiSunak tells Marr: "At the moment the data does not suggest we should *immediately* be moving to Plan B."
That word immediately felt significant.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1452193005713174534

We are so fucked...

turbotubbs

Scott_xP said:

.@RishiSunak tells Marr: "At the moment the data does not suggest we should *immediately* be moving to Plan B."
That word immediately felt significant.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1452193005713174534

We are so fucked...

Not really. So not doing it with cases at about 40,000 a day and admissions around 1000 a day, and sadly around 120 deaths a day (by date of death, please note) we are not moving to plan B. So what would trigger it?

OldKingCole

Philip_Thompson said:

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

"Fuck Brexit" was what they put on their EP manifesto after the nation voted for Brexit wasn't it?

Elderly, conservative sort of chap (small c, definitely) that I am I don't see either the need and definitely not the desirability for what my mother would have called 'gutter' language in public discussion.
Very rarely use it myself, except, perhaps, to myself, about something!

noneoftheabove

Philip_Thompson said:

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

Quite reasonable for politicians to have a vision, its kind of what we are debating and going for in politics. If you know what someone's vision is, you can sort of expect how they'd handle the unforeseen etc.

What do we get from Starmer? No vision, no competence. Just an abyss of void hoping to win by default of not being anyone else.

If that wins its an even sadder reflection on our politics.

Remind me. What is Johnson's "vision"? And I don't mean three word sound bites and empty platitudes.

I think he's a soft liberal "One Nation" Conservative, who believes that Britain can better run itself and that "levelling up" etc comes from that "One Nation"-ism.

I may be wrong on that, but its the impression I get from him.

Everyone puts their own slant on "one nation" these days to the extent it only means what the author wants it to mean.

Scott_xP

Will you start to wear masks again in Commons?

Every workplace is different
-Rishi Sunak
#Marr

‘Leadership’

https://twitter.com/paul__johnson/status/1452194051629928460

Mexicanpete

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Dura_Ace said:

I can't believe the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz© has let the Nation's Permanently Angry First Wife™ upstage him here. Flying out to a fleg bedecked carrier in a COD Merlin from INS Shikra is sort of nonsense he fucking loves.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1451900208426541067

That fucking photo. LOL.

The only thing odd about that Tweet is the hysterical responses underneath crying about the UKs Indo Pacific tilt.

FBPE Twitter really doesn’t like Truss - she campaigned for Remain, but accepted the result and now seeks to maximise the advantages of leaving the EU.

...in order to promote herself Infront of the new breed of party decision makers.

Sunil_Prasannan

Scott_xP said:

.@RishiSunak tells Marr: "At the moment the data does not suggest we should *immediately* be moving to Plan B."
That word immediately felt significant.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1452193005713174534

We are so fucked...

"Well, that's great. That's just fuckin' great, man! Now what the fuck are we supposed to do? We're in some real pretty shit now, man! That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over! What the fuck are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?"

kinabalu

Backing No is a no-brainer, I agree, but not at 1.01 obviously.

Stuartinromford

noneoftheabove said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

Quite reasonable for politicians to have a vision, its kind of what we are debating and going for in politics. If you know what someone's vision is, you can sort of expect how they'd handle the unforeseen etc.

What do we get from Starmer? No vision, no competence. Just an abyss of void hoping to win by default of not being anyone else.

If that wins its an even sadder reflection on our politics.

Remind me. What is Johnson's "vision"? And I don't mean three word sound bites and empty platitudes.

I think he's a soft liberal "One Nation" Conservative, who believes that Britain can better run itself and that "levelling up" etc comes from that "One Nation"-ism.

I may be wrong on that, but its the impression I get from him.

Everyone puts their own slant on "one nation" these days to the extent it only means what the author wants it to mean.

Which is part of BoJo's genius.

Though if he is a liberal One Nation type, how come his Cabinet is largely staffed by social conservatives and Britannia Unchained authors?

noneoftheabove

Scott_xP said:

.@RishiSunak tells Marr: "At the moment the data does not suggest we should *immediately* be moving to Plan B."
That word immediately felt significant.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1452193005713174534

We are so fucked...

The issue with Plan B is that if it is implemented, proponents will think err, was that all it is, and immediately demand Plan C.

Taz

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

Last well he was on about moderating language, changing approach etc etc after the sad events in Leigh in Sea and the level of inflamed rhetoric around political debate.

It’s back to normal now. It will be rants abiut ‘Laura pillock’ next.

Mexicanpete

Philip_Thompson said:

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

"Fuck Brexit" was what they put on their EP manifesto after the nation voted for Brexit wasn't it?

Less controversial than "**** business".

Taz

Mexicanpete said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Dura_Ace said:

I can't believe the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz© has let the Nation's Permanently Angry First Wife™ upstage him here. Flying out to a fleg bedecked carrier in a COD Merlin from INS Shikra is sort of nonsense he fucking loves.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1451900208426541067

That fucking photo. LOL.

The only thing odd about that Tweet is the hysterical responses underneath crying about the UKs Indo Pacific tilt.

FBPE Twitter really doesn’t like Truss - she campaigned for Remain, but accepted the result and now seeks to maximise the advantages of leaving the EU.

...in order to promote herself Infront of the new breed of party decision makers.

Why shouldn’t she do that ? What is wrong with that exactly.

Taz

Philip_Thompson said:

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

"Fuck Brexit" was what they put on their EP manifesto after the nation voted for Brexit wasn't it?

Yes they did and the voters said ‘Fuck the Lib Dem’s and Swinson’

DavidL

Rishi is seriously good.

Taz

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

"Fuck Brexit" was what they put on their EP manifesto after the nation voted for Brexit wasn't it?

Less controversial than "**** business".

Where was that in any parties manifesto ?

Scott_xP

Sunil_Prasannan said:

"Well, that's great. That's just fuckin' great, man! Now what the fuck are we supposed to do? We're in some real pretty shit now, man! That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over! What the fuck are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?"

I prefer Ames speech from Wag the Dog after the plane crashes...

Oh, God. What do we do now? Huh? Huh? What do we do now, huh, boy producer? Huh? Mister win-an-Emmy, social-conscience, whale-shit, save-the-rain-forest, peacenik-commie, fuckin'-hire-a-convict-shithead? Huh? What do we do now, liberal, affirmative action, shithead, peacenik commie fuck? What do you want to do now?

Philip_Thompson

turbotubbs said:

Scott_xP said:

.@RishiSunak tells Marr: "At the moment the data does not suggest we should *immediately* be moving to Plan B."
That word immediately felt significant.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1452193005713174534

We are so fucked...

Not really. So not doing it with cases at about 40,000 a day and admissions around 1000 a day, and sadly around 120 deaths a day (by date of death, please note) we are not moving to plan B. So what would trigger it?

A thousand plus vaccinated people dying per day would be my personal threshold for making restrictions regrettably acceptable.

Mexicanpete

Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Dura_Ace said:

I can't believe the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz© has let the Nation's Permanently Angry First Wife™ upstage him here. Flying out to a fleg bedecked carrier in a COD Merlin from INS Shikra is sort of nonsense he fucking loves.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1451900208426541067

That fucking photo. LOL.

The only thing odd about that Tweet is the hysterical responses underneath crying about the UKs Indo Pacific tilt.

FBPE Twitter really doesn’t like Truss - she campaigned for Remain, but accepted the result and now seeks to maximise the advantages of leaving the EU.

...in order to promote herself Infront of the new breed of party decision makers.

Why shouldn’t she do that ? What is wrong with that exactly.

Nothing at all. That is her only way up the greasy pole. I suppose I am implying it is more about pragmatism than the "seeing the light" that some suggest.

Scott_xP

Taz said:

Where was that in any parties manifesto ?

It was included in "Get Brexit Done"

Gallowgate

DavidL said:

Rishi is seriously good.

Seriously good at shafting young people?

Of course you in Scotland don’t pay tuition fees, so who cares right?

noneoftheabove

Stuartinromford said:

noneoftheabove said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

darkage said:

HYUFD said:

darkage said:

There are no genuine moderates in politics any more on either side of the atlantic, it is a losing strategy and has been since 2016. I think that this is one of the problems with Keir Starmer; he lacks any radical vision.

Biden is a moderate, Trudeau is a moderate, Macron is a moderate, Merkel was and Scholz is a moderate, indeed most elected western leaders at the moment are moderates. Even Boris was a moderate compared to Corbyn

I don't actually see it like that at all. They all have a radical edge. Looking at Trudeau for instance, he is a radical on cultural issues. So is Biden, he is sleepwalking in to a radical woke abyss, even if he doesn't realise it. Macron based his political career on setting out a radical third way, although his record is perhaps less so. Merkel is the last of the moderates, I would say; but she is on the way out.

And Boris - can't believe you are saying that. He has just presided over the radical changes to the UK; hard Brexit , changes to state intervention in the economy unthinkable until now.


Whata radical offerings is Starmer offering exactly?

Isn't that the point of Starmer? At time of writing, anyway. He's offering steady, unflashy competence, with a basis of fairness and equality.
That, of course isn't 'sexy' in political terms.

How has he demonstrated "competence" in his time in Parliament?

Was it the way he organised for a People's Vote only to end up voting for Boris's even harder deal?

Was it the way he couldn't spot any antisemitism in the Labour Party until the EHRC reported? Standing with Corbyn until the election not his discriminated against colleagues?

You know what he meant. Anyway I don't think people have much interest in competence any more, it's all about the Vision Thing.

Both the Fat Lying Sack of Jizz and Nippy run governments that have the facade of patriotism pride and hope, but beneath that are cess pools of corruption and incompetence. And people lap it up, willing to look past the chaos and destruction of their own interests whilst cheering them on.

As I always say, you get what you vote for and you always get the correct result. People want shit government.

Quite reasonable for politicians to have a vision, its kind of what we are debating and going for in politics. If you know what someone's vision is, you can sort of expect how they'd handle the unforeseen etc.

What do we get from Starmer? No vision, no competence. Just an abyss of void hoping to win by default of not being anyone else.

If that wins its an even sadder reflection on our politics.

Remind me. What is Johnson's "vision"? And I don't mean three word sound bites and empty platitudes.

I think he's a soft liberal "One Nation" Conservative, who believes that Britain can better run itself and that "levelling up" etc comes from that "One Nation"-ism.

I may be wrong on that, but its the impression I get from him.

Everyone puts their own slant on "one nation" these days to the extent it only means what the author wants it to mean.

Which is part of BoJo's genius.

Though if he is a liberal One Nation type, how come his Cabinet is largely staffed by social conservatives and Britannia Unchained authors?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Nation_Conservatives_(caucus)

Of the publicly listed members 19 One Nation Conservative members expelled from the party, and on first glance looks like none in the current cabinet.

OldKingCole

Scott_xP said:

Will you start to wear masks again in Commons?

Every workplace is different
-Rishi Sunak
#Marr

‘Leadership’

https://twitter.com/paul__johnson/status/1452194051629928460

When I go to the pub...... once or twice a week ...... or to one of the u3a Groups to which I belong.... similar .... I don't wear a mask when talking, or when likely to talk. Or drinking. Which means I don't wear a mask.
So I can see an argument for MP's, on most occasions, when in the Chamber not to be masked, although when they're all shouting and cat-calling at PMQ's the situation might be different.

DavidL

He reminds me of Blair, and I mean that as a compliment. He gives his interviewer almost nowhere to go. He is so fast that he has thought through responses to every question and makes it sound obvious. I remember being infuriated when Blair did it and had fantasies that a more effective interviewer (me, in my wilder moments) could trap him and show how false it was. But it was a fantasy, he was miles ahead.

Mexicanpete

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

"Fuck Brexit" was what they put on their EP manifesto after the nation voted for Brexit wasn't it?

Less controversial than "**** business".

A comment attributed to Johnson. I can't be arsed to look it up for you.

noneoftheabove

On topic I would not be particularly surprised if Trump somehow manages to run up huge debts at the RNC and sets up a shiny new RNCMAGA without the debts. So for financial advantage rather than a new party in the traditional sense, but not by the end of 2021!

RochdalePioneers

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

I am quoting Dura Ace's copyright description of the Prime Minister because it's funny.

And yes. Yes it is. Yoghurt-knitting and white socks with sandals is just a cover story.

Mexicanpete

DavidL said:

Rishi is seriously good.

Like Heinz mayonnaise?

Sandpit

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

"Fuck Brexit" was what they put on their EP manifesto after the nation voted for Brexit wasn't it?

Less controversial than "**** business".

The “F… Business” quote is taken way out of context.

It was an off-the-cuff response, to incessant lobbying of No.10 by a group of FBPE-types from the CBI and other such groups, during the height of the Brexit negotiations.

MattW

..

RochdalePioneers

Taz said:

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

Last well he was on about moderating language, changing approach etc etc after the sad events in Leigh in Sea and the level of inflamed rhetoric around political debate.

It’s back to normal now. It will be rants abiut ‘Laura pillock’ next.

As I said last week we need to moderate the rhetoric so that it is less aggressive. Calling out politicians for being useless is fair game. Language that suggests they should be harmed is not

There is a difference.

noneoftheabove

Gallowgate said:

DavidL said:

Rishi is seriously good.

Seriously good at shafting young people?

Of course you in Scotland don’t pay tuition fees, so who cares right?

I thought it was Boris who had the track record for shafting young people?

Mexicanpete

Sandpit said:

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

squareroot2 said:

For Rochdake Pioneers

Since becoming a Lib Dem your language has become really filthy. Is that the way Lib Dems talk.?

"Fuck Brexit" was what they put on their EP manifesto after the nation voted for Brexit wasn't it?

Less controversial than "**** business".

The “F… Business” quote is taken way out of context.

It was an off-the-cuff response, to incessant lobbying of No.10 by a group of FBPE-types from the CBI and other such groups, during the height of the Brexit negotiations.

...and your point is?

Maybe it was just satire like all of Johnson's other unfortunate comments.