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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Preview : April 25th 2013 (T -7 days and

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  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    dr_spyn said:

    AveryLP said:

    Where did Labour find Luciana Berger?

    I see she comes from Wembley but went to Haberdashers Aske, obviously my old schoo Preston Manor wasn't good enough for her.

    Another 'champagne for me, socialism for you' hypocrite

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    iPad gone nuts, sorry
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    O/T:

    In 1992 the Natural Law Party contested 310 seats, winning 0.19% of the vote.

    All their candidates lost their deposits:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Law_Party#United_Kingdom
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour blame figure is not the interesting one, probably current Tory and Lib Dem voters.

    It is the Coalition blame figure that is interesting, more than half the current Labour vote do do blame the coalition exclusively.

    Eh? Are you saying that the fact that well over twice as many respondents blamed Labour exclusively than blamed the current government exclusively is good news for Labour?
    No, he's saying its bad news for Labour. Even their own supporters don't blame the current gov't.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413

    Jonathan said:

    The Labour blame figure is not the interesting one, probably current Tory and Lib Dem voters.

    It is the Coalition blame figure that is interesting, more than half the current Labour vote do do blame the coalition exclusively.

    Eh? Are you saying that the fact that well over twice as many respondents blamed Labour exclusively than blamed the current government exclusively is good news for Labour?
    No, he's saying its bad news for Labour. Even their own supporters don't blame the current gov't.

    Ah, that makes more sense.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    If he goes with a no referendum manifesto he will be flying in the face of public opinion

    And?

    The public wanted a Lisbon referendum but that didn't stop labour the lib dems and the tories u-turning on that.

    I tell you now the electorate are sick to death of Europe

    Then UKIP are poised to do very well. The Curtice projection of a 6-8% voteshare for UKIP in 2015 seems reasonable enough but it might even be on the low side. Even 6% would be double their voteshare for 2010 so that in itself would be significant albeit gradual progress for them.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    That Lincs poll showing a major UKIP surge seems worth a thread, as it's the first local election poll we've had, though I've not seen anything on methodology and the sample size of 250 means the MOE is large.

    We're still not noticing any UKIP vote worth mentioning in our target seats, but it could well be hiding in the "No not Labour, goodnight" segment.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413

    On the march with Red Ed

    The real problem with Ed Miliband is not how he talks but what he thinks

    http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21576650-real-problem-ed-miliband-not-how-he-talks-what-he-thinks-march-red-ed

    That's a spiffing article. 'Bagehot' is the thinking man's Dan Hodges.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,635
    edited April 2013
    Interesting piece in the Times.

    Labour is exploring a cap on the welfare bill to balance higher spending on new homes and childcare.

    The Shadow Cabinet has agreed that the party needs to toughen its stance on benefits if it is to avoid being portrayed as “the welfare party”, as David Cameron called Labour this week. Ideas include switching money from housing benefit to housebuilding and from childcare tax credits to children’s centres.

    Some Shadow ministers are arguing for a cap on all or part of the benefits bill. Another idea would be to write strict new rules on welfare spending into the fiscal mandate that Ed Balls, the Shadow Chancellor, sets an incoming Labour government.

    ......The party is examining whether to adopt a regional cap, with a higher level in the South East and lower elsewhere.

    Elsewhere it says, some in the shadow cabinet think the recent narrowing of the polls is down to welfare debate/positioning by the Tories in recent weeks.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Mick_Pork said:

    If he goes with a no referendum manifesto he will be flying in the face of public opinion

    And?

    The public wanted a Lisbon referendum but that didn't stop labour the lib dems and the tories u-turning on that.

    I tell you now the electorate are sick to death of Europe

    Then UKIP are poised to do very well. The Curtice projection of a 6-8% voteshare for UKIP in 2015 seems reasonable enough but it might even be on the low side. Even 6% would be double their voteshare for 2010 so that in itself would be significant albeit gradual progress for them.

    Exactly, there is now a party that won't U-turn on it, and going to the polls on an 'you're too stupid, I know best' ticket will be disastrous for him.

    I believe Ukip are being wildly underestimated.

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    I begin to detect, just as the media got tired of the intial Coalition togetherness that the media will no longer run with the Opposition opposing everything without giving any (plausible) explanation of what Labour would do in Govt. I think the focus of attention is going to change very soon and its going to be a very interesting few months in Sept and beyond.
  • That Lincs poll showing a major UKIP surge seems worth a thread, as it's the first local election poll we've had, though I've not seen anything on methodology and the sample size of 250 means the MOE is large.

    We're still not noticing any UKIP vote worth mentioning in our target seats, but it could well be hiding in the "No not Labour, goodnight" segment.

    What do you think turnout is going to be like?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013

    I believe Ukip are being wildly underestimated.

    Maybe.

    We know that the lib dems think current VI polling underestimates their likely vote at the GE.

    So do the tories come to that.

    Call me cynical but I doubt they are all correct and every party will get a huge GE boost.

    UKIP are still working from the base of a 3.1% voteshare since 2010. So though people may differ as to how much of a jump it will get there are very, very few who can seriously question that they are at least going to improve on that a fair bit.



  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Cheshire East

    Lab 341
    LD 239
    Con 168
    UKIP 132
    Green 48

    Lab hold
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Farage is coming across as the most statesmanlike panelist on QT.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @RichardNabavi

    'Haberdashers' Aske's School for Girls. Where else?'

    Surely Labour could have found someone more serious to put on QT,her mockney is good though.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    AndyJS said:

    Farage is coming across as the most statesmanlike panelist on QT.

    That is the funniest post on here today .
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Mick_Pork said:

    I believe Ukip are being wildly underestimated.

    Maybe.

    We know that the lib dems think current VI polling underestimates their likely vote at the GE.

    So do the tories come to that.

    Call me cynical but I doubt they are all correct and every party will get a huge GE boost.

    UKIP are still working from the base of a 3.1% voteshare since 2010. So though people may differ as to how much of a jump it will get there are very, very few who can seriously question that they are at least going to improve on that a fair bit.
    The LDs have lost a third of their local gov't base since 2010. I think they've got a pretty clear idea of what's coming.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Labour held Newcastle-South Heaton. The Tories held the Rochdale ward. If they hurry up, Libdems will hold Newcastle-Castle and I can go to sleep!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Farage is coming across as the most statesmanlike panelist on QT.

    That is the funniest post on here today .
    Not quite so funny when you take into account the fact that I posted a comment on here a few days ago saying I disagreed with most of UKIP's policies.

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Mick_Pork said:

    I believe Ukip are being wildly underestimated.

    Maybe.

    We know that the lib dems think current VI polling underestimates their likely vote at the GE.

    So do the tories come to that.

    Call me cynical but I doubt they are all correct and every party will get a huge GE boost.

    UKIP are still working from the base of a 3.1% voteshare since 2010. So though people may differ as to how much of a jump it will get there are very, very few who can seriously question that they are at least going to improve on that a fair bit.



    They will get 10% plus. The problem with libLabCon is the leaders are all the same people, they all went to the same Uni and studied the same thing. That may not be true but it's how the public see it, three privileged bôys who have never had a proper job.

    They see a bit of themselves in Farage, an affable bloke with the British interest at heart. UKIP get nick many votes from the Lib Dems, who to me are the real fruitcake, but they will definitely nick loads of votes from Labour.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    SeanT said:


    Theoretically, UKIP might therefore benefit the Tories, in the long-term

    Which faction of the tories? The INs or the OUTs?

    It's not going to magically resolve itself you know. Sooner or later it's going to erupt, referendum or no referendum.

  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "And I can see that the latest polls have Yes on 30 and No on 51."

    What a lot of nonsense, Sean - you can't cherry-pick a single poll that you happen to like and claim "that's what the polls say". It certainly isn't what the most recent Panelbase poll said, for example - that had Yes on 36% and No on 46%.

    As Mick has pointed out, this is a very, very early stage in the campaign (arguably the campaign hasn't even started in any meaningful sense) and referendum campaigns are notorious for seeing huge swings of opinion over a very short period of time.

    If the No campaign are as complacent as you appear to be, they've got problems.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Mick_Pork said:

    I believe Ukip are being wildly underestimated.

    Maybe.

    We know that the lib dems think current VI polling underestimates their likely vote at the GE.

    So do the tories come to that.

    Call me cynical but I doubt they are all correct and every party will get a huge GE boost.

    UKIP are still working from the base of a 3.1% voteshare since 2010. So though people may differ as to how much of a jump it will get there are very, very few who can seriously question that they are at least going to improve on that a fair bit.



    They will get 10% plus. The problem with libLabCon is the leaders are all the same people, they all went to the same Uni and studied the same thing. That may not be true but it's how the public see it, three privileged bôys who have never had a proper job.

    They see a bit of themselves in Farage, an affable bloke with the British interest at heart. UKIP get nick many votes from the Lib Dems, who to me are the real fruitcake, but they will definitely nick loads of votes from Labour.

    They look set to find a new high next year in the EU parliament elections. They're probably going to be proved right on a new wave of east european immigration, and energy prices seem likely to rise between now and 2015.

    All that looks positive for UKIP's 2015 chances.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    SeanT said:

    Disastrous new leader of the Green Party. Looks like a lesbian newt on crystal meth.

    lol

    Is she the first foreign leader of a 'major' political party? I suppose she is still a subject of HM either way.

    You could argue that Arthur Wellesley has that honour.
    Ah yes. I wonder how many there have been in total?
    Most notably Bonar Law as short-lived PM and long-lived Tory leader was born in the colony of New Brunswick (as then was).
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    Here's details of the Lincolnshire opinion poll again:

    Con 32% (-15%)
    UKIP 21% (+18%)
    Lab 19% (+8%)
    Ind 17% (+1%)
    LD 10% (-9%)
    TUSC 1%

    http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/POLL-UKIP-surge-expected-Conservatives-rule/story-18799665-detail/story.html#axzz2RWAS9ilg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincolnshire_County_Council_election,_2009

    16.5% swing from Con to UKIP if it's right.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    Rochdale - Norden

    Con 1081
    Lab 627
    LD 246
    NF 156

    Con hold
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013

    They will get 10% plus.

    It's certainly not a seriously outlandish prediction any more. I think the 8% could be closer to the mark but we're still along way out so the locals are well placed to give us yet more clues.

    The problem with libLabCon is the leaders are all the same people, they all went to the same Uni and studied the same thing. That may not be true but it's how the public see it, three privileged bôys who have never had a proper job.

    They see a bit of themselves in Farage, an affable bloke with the British interest at heart. UKIP get nick many votes from the Lib Dems, who to me are the real fruitcake, but they will definitely nick loads of votes from Labour.

    I don't doubt that UKIP are going to grab votes from labour and the lib dems but it's just never going to be on the same scale as they are likely to harvest from disenchanted tories.

    I also think you are correct about Farage being a likely vote winner personally among wavering labour and lib dems. The only question is how he stands up to the big three and the likes of Crosby turning their big guns on him. Again, I think better than many people realise but we will see. This is not the same Farage from 2010. Few yet fully appreciate that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    "And I can see that the latest polls have Yes on 30 and No on 51."

    While I would like to be optimistic as a result of that, wasn't 'Yes to AV' ahead this far out from the referendum? I may have misremembered that, but it was definitely close.

    Point is, I would love if there was such a large proportion in favour of retaining the Union, but factor in the more positive sounding and determined Yes campaign, and I think at the least that will narrow considerably, if not reverse when crunch time approaches.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    That Lincs poll showing a major UKIP surge seems worth a thread, as it's the first local election poll we've had, though I've not seen anything on methodology and the sample size of 250 means the MOE is large.

    We're still not noticing any UKIP vote worth mentioning in our target seats, but it could well be hiding in the "No not Labour, goodnight" segment.

    What do you think turnout is going to be like?
    I think it'll be down a bit but not collapsing. A lot of people seem quite interested, but Tory and LibDem activist enthusiasm are down (which will affect GOTV). In one Tory-held ward in my patch, the councillor has reportedly been on his own throughout the campaign, gamely leafleting the entire division himself but not doing any canvassing; a veteran LibDem councillor told us that he'd personally delivered over 6000 leaflets since he wasn't getting help.



  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930


    If the No campaign are as complacent as you appear to be, they've got problems.

    They are so complacent that they sent George "Master Strategist" Osborne up for a quick chat with the Scots RE: currency. ;)

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    "This is not the same Farage from 2010. Few yet appreciate that fully. "A fair point. I'm not sure when the turning point came exactly, or what constituted it, but for some reason the media portrayal and general perception of Farage definitely shifted at some point. Like Boris being seen as a genuinely significant figure - people joked about it for years, some still joke about it being true now, but it is a fact that he is, and Farage similarly has had a perception transformation.

    If he plays it right and is lucky, whoever follows after him could take UKIP to the next level.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    AndyJS said:
    Although the sample size is very small and M of E therefore very high , the swings Con to LD , Con to Lab and LD to Lab are very close to my forecasts for next week's elections

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    The LDs have lost a third of their local gov't base since 2010. I think they've got a pretty clear idea of what's coming.

    That remaining base can be under few illusions over what awaits them in scotland.
    Even if the likes of wee Willie Rennie still hasn't worked it out yet.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    RobD said:


    If the No campaign are as complacent as you appear to be, they've got problems.

    They are so complacent that they sent George "Master Strategist" Osborne up for a quick chat with the Scots RE: currency. ;)

    Aha, you have fallen for the trick! It was actually a tactical masterstroke. You see, now anyone who follows after GO will look like a brilliant choice and be far better received out of sheer relief he is not coming back. Right?
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    So Cheshire East vs 2011

    Lab -9.9
    LD -1
    Con -8.5
    UKIP +14.2 from nowhere
    Green +5.2 from nowhere

    Rochdale vs 2012

    Con - 16.35
    Lab +4.58
    LD +4.37
    NF +7.39 from nowhere

    Rochdale vs 2011

    Con -6
    Lab +3
    LD -4.4

    Rochdale vs 2010

    Con +15
    Lab +14
    LD -30
    NF +1.4 vs BNP score
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    Observation: just by being ON Question Time Nigel Farage single-handedly pulls the country's political debate to the right. He makes the Tories appear centrist - the Tories are literally "in between" Farage's position and Labour's.

    Theoretically, UKIP might therefore benefit the Tories, in the long-term - by shifting the UK's centre of political gravity.

    What were the other parties thinking? putting up such lowgrade speakers for QT a week before the biggest elections of the year.

    Luciana Berger looks to be another empty suit, I am not surprised that she makes such a perfect couple with Chuka.

    Javid struggled nearly as much, Simon Hughes seemed bored and dreaming of the old folks home. And the Green Party Leader - for once I think that Sean T is understated in his description of her.

    It all conspired to make Farage seem the voice of the sensible party. I am no Kipper and will be voting Lib Dem next week, but the vacuity of the other parties is beyond belief.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    @kle4

    Two words.

    Ground campaign.


  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    kle4 said:

    "And I can see that the latest polls have Yes on 30 and No on 51."

    While I would like to be optimistic as a result of that, wasn't 'Yes to AV' ahead this far out from the referendum? I may have misremembered that, but it was definitely close.

    Point is, I would love if there was such a large proportion in favour of retaining the Union, but factor in the more positive sounding and determined Yes campaign, and I think at the least that will narrow considerably, if not reverse when crunch time approaches.


    The polling for the AV referendum was much more mixed than being let on. I've attached the AV (blue) and FPTP (red) shares on all polls prior to the referendum. For the Independence polls, 'No' has been ahead in all but one poll for the last 3 years.

    http://i.imgur.com/AsMB9mM.png
  • BlueberryBlueberry Posts: 408
    I thought Farage had a very good QT. He had more than half the audience clapping at times. And brave of him to raise Romanian crime rates in London. The other panelists looked gobsmacked when that got a big clap. Clearly many people will lend him their vote.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    Anyone know whether or not Peter Davies is likely to be re-elected as mayor of Doncaster?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2013#Mayoral_elections
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Mick_Pork said:

    @kle4

    Two words.

    Ground campaign.


    Yes, you're right - a military offensive may indeed by the only hope of retaining the Union. Surprised to see you advocate that option though.

    I shall see you on the battlefield (theoretically).*

    *Actually, scratch that - the SNP have the youth vote I think, so more stamina in a physical fight as well. Damn it.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Liberal Democrats hold Castle.

    Good Night
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    "And I can see that the latest polls have Yes on 30 and No on 51."

    While I would like to be optimistic as a result of that, wasn't 'Yes to AV' ahead this far out from the referendum? I may have misremembered that, but it was definitely close.

    Point is, I would love if there was such a large proportion in favour of retaining the Union, but factor in the more positive sounding and determined Yes campaign, and I think at the least that will narrow considerably, if not reverse when crunch time approaches.


    The polling for the AV referendum was much more mixed than being let on. I've attached the AV (blue) and FPTP (red) shares on all polls prior to the referendum. For the Independence polls, 'No' has been ahead in all but one poll for the last 3 years.

    http://i.imgur.com/AsMB9mM.png
    Hope remains then. Thank goodness.

    Night all.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    edited April 2013
    kle4 said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    @kle4

    Two words.

    Ground campaign.


    Yes, you're right - a military offensive may indeed by the only hope of retaining the Union. Surprised to see you advocate that option though.

    I shall see you on the battlefield (theoretically).*

    *Actually, scratch that - the SNP have the youth vote I think, so more stamina in a physical fight as well. Damn it.
    Their opposition to nuclear weapons will be their undoing ;)

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    edited April 2013
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    "And I can see that the latest polls have Yes on 30 and No on 51."

    While I would like to be optimistic as a result of that, wasn't 'Yes to AV' ahead this far out from the referendum? I may have misremembered that, but it was definitely close.

    Point is, I would love if there was such a large proportion in favour of retaining the Union, but factor in the more positive sounding and determined Yes campaign, and I think at the least that will narrow considerably, if not reverse when crunch time approaches.


    The polling for the AV referendum was much more mixed than being let on. I've attached the AV (blue) and FPTP (red) shares on all polls prior to the referendum. For the Independence polls, 'No' has been ahead in all but one poll for the last 3 years.

    http://i.imgur.com/AsMB9mM.png
    Hope remains then. Thank goodness.

    Night all.

    Well past trends are no guarantee of future performance! I am sure both 'Yes' and 'No' campaigns will be working flat out up until Sep 2014.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    @kle4

    Two words.

    Ground campaign.


    Yes, you're right - a military offensive may indeed by the only hope of retaining the Union. Surprised to see you advocate that option though.

    I shall see you on the battlefield (theoretically).*

    *Actually, scratch that - the SNP have the youth vote I think, so more stamina in a physical fight as well. Damn it.
    Their opposition to nuclear weapons will be their undoing ;)

    And we have weight of numbers too. Battle of attrition, here we come. Enjoy your Pyrric victory non-union Scots!
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "And we have weight of numbers too. Battle of attrition, here we come. Enjoy your Pyrric victory non-union Scots!"

    I wouldn't be too sure. According to the No campaign's latest highly plausible propaganda, Alex Salmond is a crazed Kim Jong-un type figure who pretends to be a lifelong unilateralist, but who secretly wants to get his hands on nuclear weapons and blow up the world.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    TV recommendation for any insomniacs, "Vikings". I've watched three episodes so far and its looking pretty good.

    http://www.history.com/shows/vikings
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    "And we have weight of numbers too. Battle of attrition, here we come. Enjoy your Pyrric victory non-union Scots!"

    I wouldn't be too sure. According to the No campaign's latest highly plausible propaganda, Alex Salmond is a crazed Kim Jong-un type figure who pretends to be a lifelong unilateralist, but who secretly wants to get his hands on nuclear weapons and blow up the world.

    I wonder what Alex Salmond's record golf game is? Can he beat the 11-holes-in-one achieved by the Kim Jong-Il ;)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    AndyJS said:

    Here's details of the Lincolnshire opinion poll again:

    Con 32% (-15%)
    UKIP 21% (+18%)
    Lab 19% (+8%)
    Ind 17% (+1%)
    LD 10% (-9%)
    TUSC 1%

    http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/POLL-UKIP-surge-expected-Conservatives-rule/story-18799665-detail/story.html#axzz2RWAS9ilg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincolnshire_County_Council_election,_2009

    16.5% swing from Con to UKIP if it's right.

    Fits with Sean Fear's report of a third of Tory voters in Potters Bar now saying they'll vote UKIP.

    On this poll it's not doing any harm to Labour's vote. Certainly in Broxtowe we're finding that "2011 Labour and now UKIP" is barely troubling the scorers - I think I've met three people in that category in six days of intensive canvassing, including WWC areas (you can trace more UKIP supporters as having cast Labour votes in the 1990s, but they've been Tory or LibDem or BNP or abstaining in the interim). To balance that so it doesn't sound like just spin, I'll add that the LibDem personal vote is significant in some areas - they will be slaughtered in seats they don't hold, less clear in seats they do hold.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    RobD said:


    The polling for the AV referendum was much more mixed than being let on. I've attached the AV (blue) and FPTP (red) shares on all polls prior to the referendum. For the Independence polls, 'No' has been ahead in all but one poll for the last 3 years.

    http://i.imgur.com/AsMB9mM.png

    It looks pretty damn one sided if you go all the way back to May 2010 though doesn't it?

    I'm agreeing that the most intense time where big shifts in the polls take place is a few months to weeks out. All that shows is that it was never a certain outcome regardless of the early polling.

    Nice graph BTW.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Mick_Pork said:

    RobD said:


    The polling for the AV referendum was much more mixed than being let on. I've attached the AV (blue) and FPTP (red) shares on all polls prior to the referendum. For the Independence polls, 'No' has been ahead in all but one poll for the last 3 years.

    http://i.imgur.com/AsMB9mM.png

    It looks pretty damn one sided if you go all the way back to May 2010 though doesn't it?

    I'm agreeing that the most intense time where big shifts in the polls take place is a few months to weeks out. All that shows is that it was never a certain outcome regardless of the early polling.

    I was showing that the AV side was never as far ahead as the 'No' camp is currently. You are right on the second point, both campaigns stayed in the same band through the year prior to the referendum, apart from the final month when the 'No' share went up significantly, with 'Yes' being unchanged (i.e. unknowns splitting heavily towards 'No').
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Mick, the other point of course is that there was a period a few years ago when Yes had a sustained lead in independence polls. That fact doesn't support the idea that this is a non-fluid electorate that has a fixed, unchanging view on independence.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    edited April 2013

    Mick, the other point of course is that there was a period a few years ago when Yes had a sustained lead in independence polls. That fact doesn't support the idea that this is a non-fluid electorate that has a fixed, unchanging view on independence.

    This would be between the 7th April 2005 and the 7th September 2006 where the three polls in a row had leads for 'Yes' of 7%, 7%, and 2%.

    Since I'm in a plotting mood (procrastination!), here is a plot showing the 'Yes' lead in all the polls I have listed (with a moving average). Looking like an oscillating pattern with a slight downward trend (but this means nothing for future predictions, of course). The reason for James et al.'s optimism is the noted improvement in the 'Yes' position over the past few months

    http://i.imgur.com/gAv9iZ6.png
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,965
    Peter Mandelson is one of the most odious, self-satisfied, misogynistic men I have ever met. Compellingly, fascinatingly horrible- Jemima Khan
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @foxinsoxuk

    Easy to understand Ed's recent comments over candidate selection.


    'As a Labour candidate in a working class area of Liverpool, glamorous 28-year-old Londoner Luciana Berger has gone to great lengths to prove her down-to-earth credentials.

    The privately-educated friend of the Blairs’ son Euan has spent months canvassing on jobs, schools and hospitals.

    And such is her devotion, the former management consultant has even ditched a car with a £5,000 personalised numberplate spelling out her name.'
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Mick, the other point of course is that there was a period a few years ago when Yes had a sustained lead in independence polls. That fact doesn't support the idea that this is a non-fluid electorate that has a fixed, unchanging view on independence.

    Yes, you're right of course. The relentless focus on the polls since then simply reinforces the idea among the No campaign that they just need to carry on as usual and things will be fine. I remember that same attitude from SLAB pre-2011. Much as we'd prefer to have great polling all the time we also know that it's not over till the final vote get's counted.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    Is LD Steve Carr standing again in Beeston North? Last time he won 53% of the vote to 24% Conservative, 14% Labour, and 9% Green.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottinghamshire_County_Council_election,_2009#Broxtowe_Borough

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    kle4 said:

    "This is not the same Farage from 2010. Few yet appreciate that fully. "A fair point. I'm not sure when the turning point came exactly, or what constituted it, but for some reason the media portrayal and general perception of Farage definitely shifted at some point. Like Boris being seen as a genuinely significant figure - people joked about it for years, some still joke about it being true now, but it is a fact that he is, and Farage similarly has had a perception transformation.

    If he plays it right and is lucky, whoever follows after him could take UKIP to the next level.

    Funny you should say that. ;).
    I shall say no more but you are not the first to have realised this.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    I guess Western intervention in Syria more likely now?

    Revealed: tragic victims of Syria’s nerve gas war

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/article3749322.ece

    The White House is doing plenty of avoid sticking to its red line statements (its complicated apparently) but is running out of road. The best indication is to watch Jordan or more precisely a place called Al Mafraq. If the US means some kind of overt intervention it will feature.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    @Mick..

    Should really get back to work, way too much procrastination. Thought I'd share one last graph with you, which shows the data since 2012, with a 1month moving average window (better than excel's built in moving average thing I plotted earlier). I'll try and keep it updated with all the latest info :)

    Has been a significant improvement since the nadir of October 2012 (although most likely that one poll was an outlier!)

    Red-No
    Blue-Yes
    Green-DK
    Purple-Yes Lead

    http://i.imgur.com/VABTaYQ.png
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited April 2013
    You knew it would happen -

    According to Politico, delicate negotiations are under way to exempt federal lawmakers and aides from Obamacare.

    There are concerns that due to the increased costs associated with Obamacare, aides in particular may jump to the private sector, resulting in a 'brain drain' from Capitol Hill.

    My favorite quote - obviously unattributed - “Everyone has to hold hands on this and jump, or nothing is going to get done.”

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/obamacare-exemption-lawmakers-aides-90610.html#ixzz2RWadtqEd

    The consensus view now - even among the more conservative democrats - is that this whole thing is a hugely expensive train wreck regarding the insurance exchanges.
  • HYUFD - at risk of getting you hyper-excited, did you hear the news that ROSANNE BARR (or whateve she's calling herself today) has yet again announced her presidential "availablity"???

    Great betting oportunity!!!
  • Tim B, according to today's NYT, congressional wingnuts are attacking "Cantorcare" because their MAJORITY LEADER is apparently a secret Marxist-Leninist!
  • Also Tim B, do you plan to bet the farm (or maybe just the rabbit hutch) on MARK SANFORD???

    Must say, was brilliant move on his part to run the aid telling voter that he'd had a very rough week!!! Poor baby.

    BTW, finally saw clip of the night he won the runoff primary, with his Argentinian flame. Noted she's a younger, slightly darker, definitely bustier version of . . . his ex!
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    RobD said:

    SeanT said:

    Disastrous new leader of the Green Party. Looks like a lesbian newt on crystal meth.

    lol

    Is she the first foreign leader of a 'major' political party? I suppose she is still a subject of HM either way.

    Bonar Law was born in (then New Brunswick, now) Canada. That's the same sort of level of "foreign" as Australian, I reckon.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    JohnLoony said:

    RobD said:

    SeanT said:

    Disastrous new leader of the Green Party. Looks like a lesbian newt on crystal meth.

    lol

    Is she the first foreign leader of a 'major' political party? I suppose she is still a subject of HM either way.

    Bonar Law was born in (then New Brunswick, now) Canada. That's the same sort of level of "foreign" as Australian, I reckon.
    Slightly related to this topic, I'm a bit sad to see the private members UK Borders Bill 2013 has not yet had, and probably wont get, a second reading. I do think nationals of HMs realms should have a dedicated lanes at the UK border. An added bonus is that you wouldn't have to enter through the 'EU nationals' line!

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Labour lead: 8 Latest YouGov / The Sun results 25th April - CON 32%, LAB 40%, LD 11%, UKIP 12%; APP -30 See the full poll results
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Latest YouGov/The Sun results 25th April - CON 32%, LAB 40%, LD 11%, UKIP 12%; APP -30
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    The BBC's Roger Harriban has written a rather ludicrously negative blog on shale gas:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22300050

    Where he talks about all the negatives from the report. Whilst there are uncertainties with shale gas, these need to be weighed against the potentials. All in all not a very good article, IMHO.

    Compare and contrast with the actual report, which can be found at: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmenergy/785/78502.htm

    It was only released today, so I haven't had time to do much more than quickly scan it. But the tone seems rather different to Harriban's blog.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    The BBC's Roger Harriban has written a rather ludicrously negative blog on shale gas

    Telling that he quotes one MP (Tim 'Enviro Business' Yeo) two antis and only one pro.....

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    New Thread
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 664
    new thread
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