Best Of

I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."

It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?

You have been very robust too. Don't underestimate the reach of PB. A very big win for PB Tories.

You're quite rare on here - clearly left wing but much less tribal than some - you at least can see some of the faults on your own side!

IIRC MexicanPete votes Lib Dem - I don't think Labour are his side?

I was a member of the Labour Party until I voted for the wrong Milliband in what, 2010? I voted Ed as a break from New Labour. How wrong was I? I am quite receptive to the LDs and was supportive back in the days of living in the Leominster Constituency where Labour (until Temple-Morris crossed the floor) were nowhere.

I can see the splinters in the eye of most parties but I see the planks in the eye of Reform and Brexit Tories.

So in a nutshell I despise Brexit, Trump, Johnsonian Tories, Farage and Reform and consider everyone else to be a bit meh. But I would vote for any to see off fascists and populist Tories.

Unlike PB Tories who are desperate for Starmer to fail and the country to come crashing down into a Reform fiasco I would like to see Starmer pull his finger out and resolve ten years of post - Brexit vote Tory chaos. I haven't seen much of that yet.

I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."

It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?

Yup big scalp for the Telegraph. Last night's exclusive statement from the conveyancing firm was when it was all over.

I did post their statement on here and said I leave it there

It was obviously a devastating response but the conveyancers were quite rightly defending their position

Raynor also claimed to have consulted two different trust lawyers, as well as her conveyancers. I presume those consultations turned out to be imaginary, or at the very least wildly insufficient to protect her from any liability.

I think it is clear she was being dishonest. Two other firms have admitted they have worked with her in the past over her trust and sale her stake in the Ashton house. Both were very clear they were not asked or provided any legal advice on this new property purchase / taxes due.

Again, I come back to the point who knew the overall picture as it seems lots of people were in the dark.

My counter to this argument is simple: if she knew she was being dishonest, then she would also have known that she only had to wait six months for her son to be of age at which point she would no longer be liable for the higher rate of stamp duty.

It just seems completely implausible anyone would knowingly commit fraud in order to gain £40k when they could sit on their backside for six months and gain that £40k legally.

Rayner was toast the moment it became clear that she had underpaid stamp duty without taking professional advice (or at least read the guidance on gov.uk ...) but the idea that she was deliberately fraudulent doesn’t fit the known facts of the case.

I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."

It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?

Yup big scalp for the Telegraph. Last night's exclusive statement from the conveyancing firm was when it was all over.

I did post their statement on here and said I leave it there

It was obviously a devastating response but the conveyancers were quite rightly defending their position

Raynor also claimed to have consulted two different trust lawyers, as well as her conveyancers. I presume those consultations turned out to be imaginary, or at the very least wildly insufficient to protect her from any liability.

I think it is clear she was being dishonest. Two other firms have admitted they have worked with her in the past over her trust and sale her stake in the Ashton house. Both were very clear they were not asked or provided any legal advice on this new property purchase / taxes due.

Again, I come back to the point who knew the overall picture as it seems lots of people were in the dark.

Rayner's successor as Deputy Leader will not be Burgon, Abbott, Long-Bailey or any of the other 'hard left' possibilities. The party has changed too much.

If she was to run for it, I'd put money on Bridget Phillipson being elected. A natural successor to Ange.

Was it Bridget who said last week that the rights of asylum seekers trump those of people from Epping?

The right of asylum seekers not to be dumped on the streets trumps the right of the people of Epping to abdicate from our national obligation to take in and process asylum seekers.

Not such a stirring soundbite but a little more accurate.

But it's okay for British people to be homeless? I don't see this same absolute obligation to house them.

There is an obligation to house homeless people. The vast majority of homeless people are not rough sleepers; those that are have typically refused help or have behaved in such a way to get booted out by the council.

There is something interesting there, though.

A number of cases about the quality of temporary accommodation for the homeless have been raised on Human Rights grounds. And rejected. For far worse places than the taken over hotels.

Rayner was aways the embodiment of gobby Lefty entitlement.

The sympathy well is bone dry.

I've been away so catching up on this story.

I think I disagree on both of your counts.

The conveyancing solicitor pays the stamp duty land tax as part of their tallying-up process. Most people would not doubt or check that the tax stated by the solicitor is correct. Raynor, remember, is a dim Labour MP who is, like the rest, numerically 'uninterested'. I very much doubt she knows much about tax rates in general. I doubt, therefore, that this was deliberate.

She no doubt sold her remaining stake in the existing house to her child's trust so that the new property would be the only property she would own, meaning the penalty second home tax rate would not apply. I can understand this. When the error came to light she immediately offered to pay the extra to HMRC.

So, as much as I dislike her, and think her unfit for office, I DO have sympathy over this issue and do not see it to be serious enough for her to go.

So not everyone on here's a shit. That's good to know.

AIUI to error was that though she was not longer party to the original house ownership she was still drawn into her child's trust purely because the child is still under 18. This is very esoteric knowledge IMO and also I would say counter-intuitive.

Also (I think since it's logical) she can claim back the extra £40k once she's paid it. Her son is 18 either now or very soon and the rule is you can claim back the additional stamp duty on a purchase if you eliminate your beneficial interest in other properties within 3 years.

Huh. That does suggest she had no idea about the rules, so either a genuine mistake or the worst tax evasion ploy ever.

Genuine mistake, I think. Nothing else makes any sense at all.