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I am starting a jury trial in Aberdeen today. It will finish by Friday, only a single charge and 3 witnesses. It is undeniably the case that if we did not have the jury the trial could be completed in 1 day, not 4. A part of yesterday was spent taking the names from a bowl and the clerk then calling those chosen to serve. This morning the Judge will spend a couple of hours ensuring that they are properly independent and have some idea of their role and fundamental principles. We will then hear from the witnesses and, very probably, the accused. Tomorrow both sides will give speeches and the judge will give his legal directions. We may get a verdict then but more likely it will be on Friday morning.

The outcome of this trial will potentially involve the accused being sentenced to 5 or 6 years and being on the sex offenders register for life. There is a complainer who is looking for justice as she sees it. It's a big deal in the lives of those involved and, in my opinion, needs time and consideration. A decision by an independent jury of the accused's peers is a very important part of that. I can't go into details but it is the sort of case where a professional judge deciding the case alone would be highly likely to convict. A jury gives the accused a chance and ensures that what is being complained about fits with current mores and attitudes. I personally think it is worth the money.

Getting rid of jury trials is a completely rogue decision and it should be resisted by MPs and the Lords at every turn. This wasn't in the Labour manifesto and they have no remit to remove such a vital protection of our freedom and liberty. What's to stop the government from manipulating judicial selection to fill the benches with judges who will target their opponents? We're literally seeing this happen in real time across the pond and Labour want to walk down an even worse path without jury trials?

This government proves itself to be utterly unfit for purpose at every opportunity. I curse the million Tory voters who sat on their hands by getting caught up in a media witch hunt against the party. Complete numpties and they've made us all regret it.

I'm genuinely curious to see the rationale for the decision. Obviously there are some issues with jury trials, examples have been given on here of really long and complex trials as one, but it's so easy to attack such plans in a way which will cut across party lines, and if the motivation is financial that looks bad too, so even if it is not as bad as the picture you paint, it is not an easy sell, so they surely have some really big hitting arguments to come?

Maybe some fools are willing to trust this government to not manipulate judicial selection. I'm not. Also, what about future governments?

Both the Tories and Reform must pledge to bring back jury trials as manifesto commitments from day one. Anything less and they are complicit in a huge erosion of our rights.

I'll be interested to see if this divides tory/reform. I'd imagine this is a no-brainer Conservative position. Reform? Not so sure.

Also, what the actual f**k are Labour doing?

Starmer is at heart an authoritarian who thinks people should be managed, that the law is perfect and never makes mistakes, that more law and regulation is the way to cure things, and cannot understand why concepts like ID cards or jury removal repel people. He lied to become leader of the party, he lied to become PM, and now he has unlimited power we see what he's really like. It's not a pretty sight.

Indeed, well said.

This really feels like a turning point for this country. If Labour manage to somehow remove jury trials for all but two types of crime then I truly believe we will no longer be living in a free or just country.

From beginning to end agents of the state will be able to investigate, charge, prosecute, adjudicate and sentence on criminal cases in very serious matters. There won't be a single break point or sanity check in that process where someone who isn't paid by the state can actually check the state's reasoning.

This is fundamentally wrong.

The right for an Englishman to be tried by a jury of his or her peers goes all the way back to Magna Carta. There's no way fools like Lammy and here today, gone tomorrow PMs like Starmer can be allowed to get away with axing a Centuries old right like this - Especially as it wasn't even a manifesto commitment.

Getting rid of jury trials is a completely rogue decision and it should be resisted by MPs and the Lords at every turn. This wasn't in the Labour manifesto and they have no remit to remove such a vital protection of our freedom and liberty. What's to stop the government from manipulating judicial selection to fill the benches with judges who will target their opponents? We're literally seeing this happen in real time across the pond and Labour want to walk down an even worse path without jury trials?

This government proves itself to be utterly unfit for purpose at every opportunity. I curse the million Tory voters who sat on their hands by getting caught up in a media witch hunt against the party. Complete numpties and they've made us all regret it.

I'm genuinely curious to see the rationale for the decision. Obviously there are some issues with jury trials, examples have been given on here of really long and complex trials as one, but it's so easy to attack such plans in a way which will cut across party lines, and if the motivation is financial that looks bad too, so even if it is not as bad as the picture you paint, it is not an easy sell, so they surely have some really big hitting arguments to come?

Maybe some fools are willing to trust this government to not manipulate judicial selection. I'm not. Also, what about future governments?

Both the Tories and Reform must pledge to bring back jury trials as manifesto commitments from day one. Anything less and they are complicit in a huge erosion of our rights.

I'll be interested to see if this divides tory/reform. I'd imagine this is a no-brainer Conservative position. Reform? Not so sure.

Also, what the actual f**k are Labour doing?

Starmer is at heart an authoritarian who thinks people should be managed, that the law is perfect and never makes mistakes, that more law and regulation is the way to cure things, and cannot understand why concepts like ID cards or jury removal repel people. He lied to become leader of the party, he lied to become PM, and now he has unlimited power we see what he's really like. It's not a pretty sight.

This really feels like a turning point for this country. If Labour manage to somehow remove jury trials for all but two types of crime then I truly believe we will no longer be living in a free or just country.

From beginning to end agents of the state will be able to investigate, charge, prosecute, adjudicate and sentence on criminal cases in very serious matters. There won't be a single break point or sanity check in that process where someone who isn't paid by the state can actually check the state's reasoning.

This is fundamentally wrong.

The right for an Englishman to be tried by a jury of his or her peers goes all the way back to Magna Carta. There's no way fools like Lammy and here today, gone tomorrow PMs like Starmer can be allowed to get away with axing a Centuries old right like this - Especially as it wasn't even a manifesto commitment.

It's surprising that 20-30 years of underfunding, under-reforming, can lead to simplistic revoking of nearly a millennia of tradition.

Maybe not that surprising. Now that I think about it.

.

I've just found a great and very informative Instagram account called "reformarenotyourfriends"

I had a look at yours yesterday… interesting set of followers you have!

Wow!

I think it might time I left this place.

Please don't.

He will be back. He needs this place like an alcoholic needs booze.

You might be comfortable with some idiot stalking you, but on this occasion that is not for me.

Otherwise your analysis is accurate.

You linked to your Instagram on here. Why do so if you are going to cry like a big, embarrassed baby when someone clicks on it?

This conversation is now closed.