Best Of

I find it very difficult to care about the ID card debate. They work well in other countries, some people have a instinctive dislike of them (but can't elaborate a rational reason why), but I don't really see a need for them except for some welcome government efficiency gains.

If Labour really think that this will improve things for people in Britain then credit for taking it on I guess - and I hope the start of a trend. If not, bit confused as to why they are exposing themselves to such a large political risk.

It’s one of the Lib Dem positions - objection to ID cards on principle - that I can sort of understand but don’t agree with.

Why not start with a MVP that keeps the civil liberties issues in check. A simple proof of ID tied to, say, NI number and passport or visa status.

Then add functionality that is purely optional. Driving licence, NHS patient data, tax records, DBS. And so on. Most people will signup if it makes life easier.

Look, a minimum viable product is one thing. But there's no way it'd stop there. UK governments of left and right are simply too centralising for that to be the case once the infrastructure is in place.

Simple proof of ID that replaces drivers' license as an optional form of ID? Sure.

Compulsory for everyone to have regardless of whether the have other perfectly legitimate forms of ID? We're already into completely new territory.

Compulsory to carry with you and show on request for X, Y and Z every day tasks? GP appointment, traffic stop, to enter an event with some security measures in place, etc. We're in a completely different world now in terms of balance of rights between citizen and state.

Oh and, after all, it's not stopping illegal migration or the black market as people continue to get fake IDs and dodgy employers turn a blind eye? Better add biometric data to the database to make sure.

No one believes the minimum viable product is the end state here. So best to kill it before it's born.

I do find some of the hysteria over ID cards rather strange given how much data the government already holds .

We happily have driving licences , passports etc . Once again No 10 comms have been useless .

You get out there , frame the debate before others do . Starmer should have had an evening news conference, laid out the plans and stressed it isn’t just about the boats .

If Labour wanted to introduce this, it should have said so in its manifesto. It’s a policy for which it should have obtained a democratic mandate, particularly because it has been proposed and scrapped before.

Do you guys want to “stop the boats” or what? I would prefer we didn’t have compulsory ID cards but ultimately we need to do something different and this is one thing to try

No it isn't.

Anyone hiring anyone illegally, cash in hand, already is breaking the existing laws.

Anyone hiring anyone legally, is already taking proof of right to work in the UK.

Stopping the boats by introducing ID cards is about as meaningful as wearing a balaclava to prevent pregnancy.

I mean that’s just factually incorrect - this would provide a validated, quick and cheap way to check

To check what?

What is the problem that compulsory ID cards are trying to solve?
If it is illegal hiring of immigrants, a simpler solution is to make it legal.
Then they can help the economy and support themselves instead of being a drain on taxpayers.

What are the criteria to get an ID card? It can't be NI number, passport, NHS number or driving licence as not every one has one.
I can see a lot of hard cases, particularly with old people or people who migrated here many years ago.
And if you don't have one, what are the consequences? I know Reform would deport you using balaclavad UK ICE.

I'd have thought a decent digital ID system could potentially have driving license no, NI number, NHS number, passport as child fields of the overarching national ID no.

Because of course there is absolutely no problem with having all that information in one place, which if lost or stolen, will be an absolute gold mine for the thief.

It is an utterly daft authoritarian idea, for which Labour has no mandate.

Plus imagine the utter fuck up which Fujitsu or similar will make of the database behind it.

it looks like every EU country bar one has them.Why do you believe they have all got it wrong? Or is it that our situation is different?

They don’t try and create a super database of everything and then allow any idiot to access it without proper logs. Or breach GDPR, good security standards, common sense or the laws of mathematics.

They don’t hire Peter Fucking Thiel

They generally have a simple card, with a single, simple database behind it.

This doesn’t justify a multi billion pound budget, a Richard Rogers inspired head office building or any other crap. I know that’s sad for some. They can go cry in corner.

I do find some of the hysteria over ID cards rather strange given how much data the government already holds .

We happily have driving licences , passports etc . Once again No 10 comms have been useless .

You get out there , frame the debate before others do . Starmer should have had an evening news conference, laid out the plans and stressed it isn’t just about the boats .

If Labour wanted to introduce this, it should have said so in its manifesto. It’s a policy for which it should have obtained a democratic mandate, particularly because it has been proposed and scrapped before.

Do you guys want to “stop the boats” or what? I would prefer we didn’t have compulsory ID cards but ultimately we need to do something different and this is one thing to try

No it isn't.

Anyone hiring anyone illegally, cash in hand, already is breaking the existing laws.

Anyone hiring anyone legally, is already taking proof of right to work in the UK.

Stopping the boats by introducing ID cards is about as meaningful as wearing a balaclava to prevent pregnancy.

I mean that’s just factually incorrect - this would provide a validated, quick and cheap way to check

To check what?

What is the problem that compulsory ID cards are trying to solve?
If it is illegal hiring of immigrants, a simpler solution is to make it legal.
Then they can help the economy and support themselves instead of being a drain on taxpayers.

What are the criteria to get an ID card? It can't be NI number, passport, NHS number or driving licence as not every one has one.
I can see a lot of hard cases, particularly with old people or people who migrated here many years ago.
And if you don't have one, what are the consequences? I know Reform would deport you using balaclavad UK ICE.

I'd have thought a decent digital ID system could potentially have driving license no, NI number, NHS number, passport as child fields of the overarching national ID no.

Because of course there is absolutely no problem with having all that information in one place, which if lost or stolen, will be an absolute gold mine for the thief.

It is an utterly daft authoritarian idea, for which Labour has no mandate.

Plus imagine the utter fuck up which Fujitsu or similar will make of the database behind it.

All linked back to a unique iris scan

Iris says she's unique, but how come everyone has her scan?

She teaches many pupils?

A lot of people on PB are vocally against ID cards, and have been whenever they're mentioned. So it's good to hear a few pro-ID card voices downthread.

It'd be interesting to know how many people involved in IT or computing are for or against them.

I'm vociferously against them in principle, but 30 years working in IT means I'm also very aware of how having a giant central database of the personal details of everyone in the country is a colossally fucking terrible idea on many levels.

The common thread I see in pro-ID arguments is a belief the system will work as advertised and be used only for the stated purpose. Given the history of such projects that strikes me as misplaced faith on par with grown adults believing in the tooth fairy.