Best Of

What is happening in America feels like the rebirth of western civilisation. It is replacing a dead world which had lost the capacity to adapt and evolve, was consumed by internal contradictions, and was nearly certain to collapse.

I have personally felt like this is coming for a long time, and came to the view that rather than continuously mourning the loss of the familiar, it is better to just assess what is going on in neutral terms.

I think with Trump 24-28, it will be like the British Empire: Parts will be very good, parts will be very bad... it will transcend any kind of historical verdict.

The comparison with the British Empire has relevance, but rather I see it as the USA being at some point on the curve of decay that the British Empire went through in the roughly late 19C to WW2 - on which we spent the rest of our resources; as Thatcher put it to I think George Bush: "the wealth of a century".

As I see it the USA is nothing like as predominant as Trump seems to think it is, and I think that if he tries to implement his apparent belief that he can allow the dismemberment of European countries at his will, even our current sleepy-Europe might wake up.

For Trump'd regime, I think a better comparison is Venezuela or South Africa.

It is a variety of kleptocracy embedded within a 'democratic' system, with 1) the control being with a crime family who have 2) tamed and controlled a political party, 3) aided and abetted by oligarchs who will profit thereby (eg Musk), protected 4) by a corrupted judicial system.

I think that analogy is clear in its elements.

Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,

"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.

On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'

The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.

A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.

It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.

Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.

Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/wales-told-to-make-dog-free-areas-to-make-outdoors-less-racist/ar-AA1u2Oy7

Barking

I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.

You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.

I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.

It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?

I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.

Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.

Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.

If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.

If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.

Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.

Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.

You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.

There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.

The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.

I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.

I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.

But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.

A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."

Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.

Or "it's just his way of showing he likes you."

You've just reignited a memory which makes me increasingly angry as I get older.
When I was 10, I was walking along the main road towards the sweet shop in the unremarkable middle class suburb where I grew up, and a woman and a dog - an Alsatian - on a lead were coming the other way. I spied the dog, and was instinctively wary, but told myself that the dog was on a lead so there was nothing to worry about. As I passed it, it leapt at me, knocking me over and raking its teeth down my back. My memory is fairly hazy, but I think my reaction was to curl myself into a ball and cry and hope the owner pulled the dog off. Which, she did.
Fortunately, the mother of a schoolfriend was coming the other way, and saw the incident, saw me, helped me up, took me to the sweet shop and used the phone there o call my parents, who came and collected me and took me to hospital to get it checked out (no stitches needed, just a clean up and a tetanus shot). She did challenge the owner of the dog, who apparently replied that I shouldn't have gone so close to the dog - but honestly, as schoolfriend's mum said to me, I was as far from the dog as a six foot pavement with a wall on one side would allow.
God, I was ten. The dog was bigger than I was. If that happened to my ten year old daughter I would be incandescent.

Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,

"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.

On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'

The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.

A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.

It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.

Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.

Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/wales-told-to-make-dog-free-areas-to-make-outdoors-less-racist/ar-AA1u2Oy7

Barking

I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.

You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.

I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.

It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?

I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.

Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.

Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.

If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.

If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.

Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.

Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.

You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.

There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.

The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.

I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.

I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.

But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.

A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."

Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.

That's quite a serious offence. The question is whether it's a toddler next, with a face and neck much closer to the dog's level.

Sorry for O/T but find it odd that the Today programme seem more focussed on Gaetz nomination when the one everyone outside the US (apart from Russia) should be worried about is Gabbard.

No doubt in a few days time when there is analysis and opinion elsewhere pointing this nightmare out then the Beeb will go hard on it as if they’ve just dug the appointment out without anyone else seeing it.

Both appointments are terrifying. There’s plenty of horror to go around. I suggest our focus should be on the appointments and not on criticising the BBC for being slightly overwhelmed by the awfulness of it all.

Putin must have some SERIOUS hold over Trump.

Both are appointments that cast democratic government in the worst possible light.

And Musky Baby as well. Who, it should be noted, had prominent Russian investors into Twix, and who apparently has talked to Putin and Putin's representatives.

The GOP are selling out American democracy to Russia.

Hugo Rifkind in The Times today has an article on the idea that tech bros are becoming at least as powerful as Nation states and we need to consider how we interact with them on that basis

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/countries-are-losing-the-fight-with-tech-titans-txtt9b5ck

It does raise the question though of what happens when Musk and Trump fall out. Is that civil war?

But Zuckerberg in 2020 was just fine!

It was not fine.

But it's also orders of magnitude less egregious than what Musky Baby and his techbro shit friends have done this time.

I share others’ views about the use of the nickname “Musky Baby.” It gives me a mental image of a prostitute calling him that whilst pegging him.

FTFY

In that case I could imagine him shouting.

“Musky, Musky Baby.”

“”What’s that?”

“It’s my safe word.”

“F*ck your safe word, you little bitch!”

Musk needs treating with utter contempt. If my using a phrase like 'Musky Baby' annoys you, remember that is exactly the intent: to take the piss out of a guy who is doing everything for himself, not you. If you are one of the weird nerds who defend his every action, ask yourself at what point you would stop supporting the narcissistic liar.

As ever (and this goes back to the days of people using "Bliar", it makes the user of the nickname look bad, not the target.

If you like the target, it may. If you like Musk, then you need your head checking.

I didn't much like Blair. I found use of Bliar tiresome and childish.

I didn't like Cameron or Osborne. I found use of Chameron and Gideon boring and lame.

I felt a strong antipathy towards May. I found use of Maybot to be excruciatingly accurate, but unkind and unnecessary.

I thought that Johnson was one of the most mendacious and dangerous people to have ever been PM. I found use of FLSOJ to be immature and puerile.

Elon Musk is many things, including a complete arsehole. Every time you refer to him as Musky Baby you demean yourself and it's the textual equivalent of nails being dragged down a blackboard. Please, for the sake of my sanity, desist.

Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,

"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.

On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'

The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.

A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.

It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.

Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.

Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/wales-told-to-make-dog-free-areas-to-make-outdoors-less-racist/ar-AA1u2Oy7

One person of a particular heritage in a focus group feeling unsafe with the presence of dogs tells us literally nothing other than that particular person is afraid of dogs.

Any moron making (or even suggesting) policy on this basis should be permanently barred from public office.

I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that Trump winning was probably for the best, for the same reasons that @darkage adduces

I can see where that perspective comes from and yet there's a huge difference between what Trump may do in theory to just reset identity politics and all of the shit that comes with and the reality of Tulsi Gabbard being the director of nation security and selling Ukraine out to Putin.

Defeating "woke" — if such a thing truly even exists — by destroying the government of the world's most important democracy seems like quite a high price to pay in my opinion.

Had 'woke' not gone too far, this change would not have been necessary. The problem was it was getting more and more extreme, and the left was not moderating itself.

Ultimately the voters delivered their verdict.... in the form of Donald Trump.

The phrase ""woke" - if such a thing truly exists" is a nonsense. Of course it exists. It just means different things to different people. To some its about courtesy and doing the right thing for people, for others its utter rubbish and driving people to distraction. I think, like a lot of things, how people think about stuff evolves. We see it in language use. Not that long ago we use the term "Third World". Then we have the Global South, now its the the Global Majority and so on. People sometimes fail to keep up with the current use and get castigated. Is it correct to say Coloured People or People of Colour (or neither)? Who publishes the list of approved phrases?

Take pronouns. Many have no issue at all with putting their preferred pronoun in their email signature, yet for others its ridiculous.

I've just completed a Health and Wellbeing survey at work. For Gender the choices were Male, Female, Non-binary and Queer. This was new to me - what the hell is Queer as a gender?

Woke language moves on, just as business speak does. Its created by 'in-speak' - if you are speaking the right way then you fit in with the herd.

It is a word to describe the radical and intolerant progressivism seen over the last decade or so, but it is contested so best to put it in speech marks.

It is easy to gain an understanding of "woke" if you substitute "political correctness gone mad" in its place.

Before that it was known as "being consdierate of others".

Sorry for O/T but find it odd that the Today programme seem more focussed on Gaetz nomination when the one everyone outside the US (apart from Russia) should be worried about is Gabbard.

No doubt in a few days time when there is analysis and opinion elsewhere pointing this nightmare out then the Beeb will go hard on it as if they’ve just dug the appointment out without anyone else seeing it.

Both appointments are terrifying. There’s plenty of horror to go around. I suggest our focus should be on the appointments and not on criticising the BBC for being slightly overwhelmed by the awfulness of it all.

Putin must have some SERIOUS hold over Trump.

Both are appointments that cast democratic government in the worst possible light.

And Musky Baby as well. Who, it should be noted, had prominent Russian investors into Twix, and who apparently has talked to Putin and Putin's representatives.

The GOP are selling out American democracy to Russia.

Hugo Rifkind in The Times today has an article on the idea that tech bros are becoming at least as powerful as Nation states and we need to consider how we interact with them on that basis

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/countries-are-losing-the-fight-with-tech-titans-txtt9b5ck

It does raise the question though of what happens when Musk and Trump fall out. Is that civil war?

But Zuckerberg in 2020 was just fine!

It was not fine.

But it's also orders of magnitude less egregious than what Musky Baby and his techbro shit friends have done this time.

I share others’ views about the use of the nickname “Musky Baby.” It gives me a mental image of a prostitute calling him that whilst pegging him.

FTFY

In that case I could imagine him shouting.

“Musky, Musky Baby.”

“”What’s that?”

“It’s my safe word.”

“F*ck your safe word, you little bitch!”

Musk needs treating with utter contempt. If my using a phrase like 'Musky Baby' annoys you, remember that is exactly the intent: to take the piss out of a guy who is doing everything for himself, not you. If you are one of the weird nerds who defend his every action, ask yourself at what point you would stop supporting the narcissistic liar.

As ever (and this goes back to the days of people using "Bliar", it makes the user of the nickname look bad, not the target.

If you like the target, it may. If you like Musk, then you need your head checking.

I didn't much like Blair. I found use of Bliar tiresome and childish.

I didn't like Cameron or Osborne. I found use of Chameron and Gideon boring and lame.

I felt a strong antipathy towards May. I found use of Maybot to be excruciatingly accurate, but unkind and unnecessary.

I thought that Johnson was one of the most mendacious and dangerous people to have ever been PM. I found use of FLSOJ to be immature and puerile.

Elon Musk is many things, including a complete arsehole. Every time you refer to him as Musky Baby you demean yourself and it's the textual equivalent of nails being dragged down a blackboard. Please, for the sake of my sanity, desist.

Please tell me what name of contempt I can use for Musk, that will not offend you?

'Musk', just type it contemptuously. We promise to read it contemptuously. Pop it in a <span class="contemptuous">Musk</span> if it helps

I'm still hoping for a proper Musk scandal so we can all talk about Elongate