politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Alastair Meeks: How the Eurosceptics are destroying the Co
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I've got say Alistair produces some amazing click bait... It's all nonsense but it's very proactive, lol!0
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Nicholas Soames compares Brexiteers to an Alsatian that must be kicked “really hard in the balls”
http://www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2016/03/interview-nicholas-soames-compares-brexiteers-to-an-alsatian-that-must-be-kicked-really-hard-in-the-balls.html
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And yet still all over Europe governments are taken by surprise, despite what's happened in the past. Lessons have not been learned. And with some governments and liberal elites, never will be.JosiasJessop said:Another explosion reported at the Brussels Metro station.
Starting to look a little like London 2005.
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Anyway, it is clear Europe has a horrendous problem with Islamic terrorism right now.
I'm utterly furious.0 -
It certainly won't harm him.Pulpstar said:
If we're being really hard headed and cynical, this could add a few points to Trump...
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Or try to scupper his chancellors pension plans.AlastairMeeks said:
If I wanted to curry favour with the Prime Minister, I can think of better ways of doing it than predicting the inevitable demise of his government into purposeless enervation.blackburn63 said:All very puzzling, yesterday TSE told us that CCHQ was begging him for positive threads, the very next day Meeks pulls one of his many pro Remain threads from the drawer.
I'm interested to hear what TSE and Meeks hope to gain from such toadying, obsequious behaviour. A job, an audience with Dave, recognition - what is the motive? In thread header after thread header Meeks calls Leavers insane, infantile and mad, there has to be a bigger picture.
Interestingly the header says that Cameron is the politician the public respects, hogwash. Ask labour voters, ukip voters, SNP voters, a growing number of conservatives if they respect Cameron, of course they don't. This site is increasingly representative of this peculiar, self appointed bubble that seeks to frame but is actually massively out of touch with public opinion.
If, and its still a reasonable sized if, Leave wins, this site will be like a day old battlefield after the referendum.
You can't fool me - you even refer to him by name and not as Lord Feldman. Bosom pals, no doubt.TheScreamingEagles said:
Before an innacurate meme begins it was an ex CCHQ employee who was worried about the party.Charles said:Just yesterday @TSE was telling us that CCHQ had asked him to write threads to remind the Tory right what happened in the 1990s.
Today, we have this piece (and Mr. Meeks, although well written as usual - if 50% too long (also as usual) - you don't really have much of a grasp of the inner workings of the Tory Party, do you.
There are a bunch of irreconcilables. There always will be. They have more power right now because of a small majority and have latched on to the EU referendum as a means to attack Cameron.
But the vast majority of the Tory party - in parliament and outside - is minded towards unity. They will disagree - vehemently - on this issue. I have no doubt that some individual relationships will be shattered. But overall the party wants to remain in power, and believes that Corbyn would be a disaster for the country. Many of the positive-Leavers on this board (e.g. @PhilipThompson @MarqueeMark) have said they would vote for Cameron if he was to stand for re-election after the referendum.
It won't be BoJo. It probably won't be Gove. It won't be Javid (or Morgan). It won't be Osborne. May has a good chance as such).
It wasn't Andrew Feldman ringing me and telling me.
Honestly, people act so offended by these pieces, or ones from mr brind
Good day0 -
By this kind of warped and prejudiced logic we'd have nothing to do with any country that had ever had a terrorist attack. 'splendid isolation' anyone. Yet this is the level to which some Leave supporters on here have sunk. Pathetic.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Felix, it's a double-edged sword. Cameron's banged on about our security depending on being in, after all.
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Sorry Alistair, seems events have overtaken your prosaic europhilic polemic.0
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That was very poor judgement on his part. Claiming being in the EU helps fight terrorism is just as daft as saying we would be safer out. EU membership is irrelevant to the issue. It was almost inevitable that there would be more attacks before the EU referendum, Cameron should not have linked the two issues.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Felix, it's a double-edged sword. Cameron's banged on about our security depending on being in, after all.
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I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse, or not grasping my point.AlastairMeeks said:
Idiocy is believing - in the face of a generation of polling and electoral evidence - that campaigning on hostility to the EU is a vote winner for the Conservatives.Mortimer said:
You say that, but promising a referendum - itself probably the most eurosceptic act since the 90s - was part of a manifesto that secure the first Tory majority since the 90s.AlastairMeeks said:
Based on what?Mortimer said:Fundamental misunderstanding of the natural party of government there Alastair.
Concern with the current leadership is that the 'remain at all costs' will scupper electoral chances.
There is no Eurosceptic timeline of electoral success in general elections: quite the reverse. Whenever the Conservatives have defined themselves or been defined by their hostility to the EU, they've been trounced at the polls.
Think of it this way - euroscepticism is a rising trend amongst the elderly, who are in then the most likely age group to vote Tory. AB1s are the least likely eurosceptic social group - but are unlikely to be voting for the Tory opposition based on all other factors (not least Corbyn's leadership and apparent vice like grip on the party).
Again, you likely won't believe me because you've repeatedly demonstrated a failure to appreciate the notion of a sensible Leaver, but I wasn't that bothered by Europe until the recent 'remain because of this stunning deal' spouted by a leadership to whom I have always been loyal and for whom I have knocked on countless doors. The reaction amongst the party faithful to the idiocy of our leadership is indicative not of petty fears about Europe, but real fears that being pro Europe destroys our activist base and endangers a majority.
Nor is a party as europhilic as it appears, since the election, under the current leadership, likely to win a majority.
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They won't be campaigning on that in 2020.AlastairMeeks said:
Idiocy is believing - in the face of a generation of polling and electoral evidence - that campaigning on hostility to the EU is a vote winner for the Conservatives.Mortimer said:
You say that, but promising a referendum - itself probably the most eurosceptic act since the 90s - was part of a manifesto that secure the first Tory majority since the 90s.AlastairMeeks said:
Based on what?Mortimer said:Fundamental misunderstanding of the natural party of government there Alastair.
Concern with the current leadership is that the 'remain at all costs' will scupper electoral chances.
There is no Eurosceptic timeline of electoral success in general elections: quite the reverse. Whenever the Conservatives have defined themselves or been defined by their hostility to the EU, they've been trounced at the polls.
Think of it this way - euroscepticism is a rising trend amongst the elderly, who are in then the most likely age group to vote Tory. AB1s are the least likely eurosceptic social group - but are unlikely to be voting for the Tory opposition based on all other factors (not least Corbyn's leadership and apparent vice like grip on the party).
Again, you likely won't believe me because you've repeatedly demonstrated a failure to appreciate the notion of a sensible Leaver, but I wasn't that bothered by Europe until the recent 'remain because of this stunning deal' spouted by a leadership to whom I have always been loyal and for whom I have knocked on countless doors. The reaction amongst the party faithful to the idiocy of our leadership is indicative not of petty fears about Europe, but real fears that being pro Europe destroys our activist base and endangers a majority.
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Terrible events in Brussels... seems this is the new normal for Europe.0
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Sounds like he'd be perfect for a guest piece here.TheScreamingEagles said:Nicholas Soames compares Brexiteers to an Alsatian that must be kicked “really hard in the balls”
http://www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2016/03/interview-nicholas-soames-compares-brexiteers-to-an-alsatian-that-must-be-kicked-really-hard-in-the-balls.html
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First Direct used to be one of the best banks under Midland (I remember watching the first ads with my Dad). They struggled a little over the last 10 years, but do seem to be coming back recently.Casino_Royale said:
Yup, done so - to First Direct, who answer the phone immediately and gave me £150 for the switch.Charles said:
change your bank?Casino_Royale said:Off topic, what is it with this plague of feedback?
I can't use any website, bank, bookie, store or online booking service now without being asked via email for "feedback".
Invariably, it's tedious and geared towards given them some nice % KPIs to throw about in their marketing literature. So I ignore.
On the rare occasion where I offer unsolicited feedback (e.g. to my bank, over the telephone, about being transferred/put on hold too much) it's made perfectly clear to me in the dismissive response by the operator that it's not their job, and not particularly welcome either.
I did try explaining why I did to Santander but they couldn't give a shit.
Santander's gone right downhill since Charlotte stopped running its UK business
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Really? So, for two hours people were saying to the BBC "it's moslem terrorists, it's moslem terrorists, just look at the evidence" and the BBC was saying "no it's not, it's electrical failure, moslems did not do it". That is extraordinary. I cannot believe that in all of the confusion and carnage it took less than two hours to figure out exactly what had happened and that I have forgotten that it did.MikeK said:
Yes insisted is the word. They (BBC and Government) didn't want to believe that a terrorist attack on multiple targets, could actually be happening in dear old London. Especially not from muslims.SouthamObserver said:
Insisted? Really?MikeK said:
Ah, but I remember our own London bombings when the BBC insisted for more than 2 hours that those explosions on the tube were simply electrical malfunctions.CarlottaVance said:
Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?MikeK said:The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.
Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....
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What lessons do you think are applicable?MikeK said:
And yet still all over Europe governments are taken by surprise, despite what's happened in the past. Lessons have not been learned.JosiasJessop said:Another explosion reported at the Brussels Metro station.
Starting to look a little like London 2005.0 -
It really sounds like a spoof account this. Except we know it isn't.MikeK said:
And yet still all over Europe governments are taken by surprise, despite what's happened in the past. Lessons have not been learned.JosiasJessop said:Another explosion reported at the Brussels Metro station.
Starting to look a little like London 2005.0 -
Arf ! Probably the way alot of Bernie fans see it
Peter Tatchell @PeterTatchell 19m19 minutes ago
MT @GayspeakNews: For the indecisive US voter, here is Clump. Both defend big business. #Clump #Trump #Clinton0 -
I'm going to do a thread 'Soames for next Tory leader'kle4 said:
Sounds like he'd be perfect for a guest piece here.TheScreamingEagles said:Nicholas Soames compares Brexiteers to an Alsatian that must be kicked “really hard in the balls”
http://www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2016/03/interview-nicholas-soames-compares-brexiteers-to-an-alsatian-that-must-be-kicked-really-hard-in-the-balls.html0 -
Yes, it looks like Trump v Clinton when most voters want Sanders v KasichPulpstar said:
So the two unpopular bods within the general populace are a mile out in front.HYUFD said:CNN
GOP nomination
Trump 47
Cruz 31
Kasich 17
Dems
Clinton 51
Sanders 44
General election
Clinton 53
Trump 41
Clinton 48
Cruz 48
Clinton 45
Kasich 51
Sanders 58
Trump 38
Sanders 55
Cruz 42
Sanders 51
Kasich 45
Funny old world.0 -
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. By that definition, the Eurosceptic right of the Conservative party is insane."
Of course but they're hardly alone, Europhiles saying they will reform Europe while it steams off in the opposite direction as it has done for 40 years are just as insane.
Maybe Europe just does your head in.0 -
What I'm totally perplexed by is that the Belgian PM has just announced the terror threat has now been raised to highest level. WTF?0
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You mean that you want Sanders v Kasich to be the nominees. Leave the voters out of it, they haven't spoken yet.HYUFD said:
Yes, it looks like Trump v Clinton when most voters want Sanders v KasichPulpstar said:
So the two unpopular bods within the general populace are a mile out in front.HYUFD said:CNN
GOP nomination
Trump 47
Cruz 31
Kasich 17
Dems
Clinton 51
Sanders 44
General election
Clinton 53
Trump 41
Clinton 48
Cruz 48
Clinton 45
Kasich 51
Sanders 58
Trump 38
Sanders 55
Cruz 42
Sanders 51
Kasich 45
Funny old world.0 -
Mr. Felix, I'm confused by your post. I'm agreeing that Leave shouldn't try and make political capital out of this, and simply adding, as others have said, that nor should Remain.
Mr. Eagles, that's a very stupid thing for Soames to say. For most people, the idea of giving a dog a kicking is abhorrent.0 -
Lesson 1JosiasJessop said:
What lessons do you think are applicable?MikeK said:
And yet still all over Europe governments are taken by surprise, despite what's happened in the past. Lessons have not been learned.JosiasJessop said:Another explosion reported at the Brussels Metro station.
Starting to look a little like London 2005.
Ignore MikeK's posts.0 -
Osborne's played it badly, but clearly there is a problem in the way the payments have been increasing, so it's right to reform them.Casino_Royale said:
Actuallly, on this budget, I have little sympathy with the rebels despite being a Brexiter.Charles said:
Nah, what happened in the 1990s was that the party was in turmoil - Major had a much larger group of rebels with running series of votes in Parliament.
Here there is a single referendum which will largely deal with the issue (Except for the anti-Cameroon individuals who would be anti-Cameron anyway and are largely ignored)
There is a bigger issue with the fact that there are a bunch of Tory MPs who are swayed by social media and lack a spine.
We still have a huge deficit to close.
If the Tory party isn't going to be dry on the money, and drive for a competitive low tax economy, then who is?
But he's crap at politics.0 -
Gerry Adams
All Sinn Féin team & visitors safe in Brussels.
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welcome on board Charles. ;-)Charles said:
Osborne's played it badly, but clearly there is a problem in the way the payments have been increasing, so it's right to reform them.Casino_Royale said:
Actuallly, on this budget, I have little sympathy with the rebels despite being a Brexiter.Charles said:
Nah, what happened in the 1990s was that the party was in turmoil - Major had a much larger group of rebels with running series of votes in Parliament.
Here there is a single referendum which will largely deal with the issue (Except for the anti-Cameroon individuals who would be anti-Cameron anyway and are largely ignored)
There is a bigger issue with the fact that there are a bunch of Tory MPs who are swayed by social media and lack a spine.
We still have a huge deficit to close.
If the Tory party isn't going to be dry on the money, and drive for a competitive low tax economy, then who is?
But he's crap at politics.0 -
Hurd is an odd one to highlight!ydoethur said:
As I understand it, the house in question had seven bedrooms and a large garden.SouthamObserver said:
My Mum owns a million pound house which she and my Dad bought for £7,000 in I970. She would be a millionaire if she sold it and then decided to live somewhere else completely. But she hasn't, so she isn't.ydoethur said:
His father owned a million pound house, like Miliband Sr. That suggests he had a few quid.Innocent_Abroad said:
Is JC the son of a millionaire? Has he covered up for paedos (more than any other politician?) Is there a correlation between political competence and academic success? You all know I am no fan of his, I've been too close to him for that - but let's stick to the facts.
Labour's problem isn't JC, it's the oppositionist thinking of his fan club. That includes Nick Palmer (and indeed my daughter) both of whom I had thought had far more sense.
He was told what was happening in Islington by the persistent Ms Davies in 1993. He believed she was motivated by homophobia and did nothing. True, there are politicians on all sides who have a nasty story on this, but he's about the last active one.
No - Baldwin springs to mind - but there is a correlation between stupidity and political failure.
I agree his fan club are also a problem, but Corbyn is certainly a major problem in and of himself. If Clive Lewis or even Emily Thornberry were the leader, I would be much less concerned, and their views are little different from Corbyn's.
I have absolutely no time for Corbyn, but calling everyone who has got lucky with property a millionaire is a bit silly.
OK, I'll take back the millionaire part. His family
Were still very wealthy. I'd have a whole lot more respect for politicians like Hurd, Corbyn and the Milibands if they didn't try to pretend they were from poor backgrounds and understood ordinary people.0 -
I grasped your point. "This time it's different" are the four most expensive words in the English language. I can see that they're going to cost the Conservatives very dearly in the coming years.Mortimer said:
I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse, or not grasping my point.AlastairMeeks said:
Idiocy is believing - in the face of a generation of polling and electoral evidence - that campaigning on hostility to the EU is a vote winner for the Conservatives.Mortimer said:
You say that, but promising a referendum - itself probably the most eurosceptic act since the 90s - was part of a manifesto that secure the first Tory majority since the 90s.AlastairMeeks said:
Based on what?Mortimer said:Fundamental misunderstanding of the natural party of government there Alastair.
Concern with the current leadership is that the 'remain at all costs' will scupper electoral chances.
There is no Eurosceptic timeline of electoral success in general elections: quite the reverse. Whenever the Conservatives have defined themselves or been defined by their hostility to the EU, they've been trounced at the polls.
Think of it this way - euroscepticism is a rising trend amongst the elderly, who are in then the most likely age group to vote Tory. AB1s are the least likely eurosceptic social group - but are unlikely to be voting for the Tory opposition based on all other factors (not least Corbyn's leadership and apparent vice like grip on the party).
Again, you likely won't believe me because you've repeatedly demonstrated a failure to appreciate the notion of a sensible Leaver, but I wasn't that bothered by Europe until the recent 'remain because of this stunning deal' spouted by a leadership to whom I have always been loyal and for whom I have knocked on countless doors. The reaction amongst the party faithful to the idiocy of our leadership is indicative not of petty fears about Europe, but real fears that being pro Europe destroys our activist base and endangers a majority.
Nor is a party as europhilic as it appears, since the election, under the current leadership, likely to win a majority.0 -
After the second explosion it was unlikely to be electrical problems. After the third it was effectively impossible. It's too long ago for me to remember with confidence how it was reported but my memory is that the electrical fault line was reported relatively unquestioningly for some time after the third explosion.SouthamObserver said:
Really? So, for two hours people were saying to the BBC "it's moslem terrorists, it's moslem terrorists, just look at the evidence" and the BBC was saying "no it's not, it's electrical failure, moslems did not do it". That is extraordinary. I cannot believe that in all of the confusion and carnage it took less than two hours to figure out exactly what had happened and that I have forgotten that it did.MikeK said:
Yes insisted is the word. They (BBC and Government) didn't want to believe that a terrorist attack on multiple targets, could actually be happening in dear old London. Especially not from muslims.SouthamObserver said:
Insisted? Really?MikeK said:
Ah, but I remember our own London bombings when the BBC insisted for more than 2 hours that those explosions on the tube were simply electrical malfunctions.CarlottaVance said:
Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?MikeK said:The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.
Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....
After the bomb on the bus, nobody could pretend.0 -
You can think what you want. To you, Black is white and vice versa. I watched the BBC for 5 hours that morning and I know what I saw and heard.SouthamObserver said:
Really? So, for two hours people were saying to the BBC "it's moslem terrorists, it's moslem terrorists, just look at the evidence" and the BBC was saying "no it's not, it's electrical failure, moslems did not do it". That is extraordinary. I cannot believe that in all of the confusion and carnage it took less than two hours to figure out exactly what had happened and that I have forgotten that it did.MikeK said:
Yes insisted is the word. They (BBC and Government) didn't want to believe that a terrorist attack on multiple targets, could actually be happening in dear old London. Especially not from muslims.SouthamObserver said:
Insisted? Really?MikeK said:
Ah, but I remember our own London bombings when the BBC insisted for more than 2 hours that those explosions on the tube were simply electrical malfunctions.CarlottaVance said:
Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?MikeK said:The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.
Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....0 -
That does sound odd. As an example, we're currently at severe for international terrorism, and moderate for NI-terrorism on the mainland. We have one level higher: critical, for imminent attacks.Plato_Says said:What I'm totally perplexed by is that the Belgian PM has just announced the terror threat has now been raised to highest level. WTF?
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threat-levels0 -
Anyone going to say it...Plato_Says said:Gerry Adams
All Sinn Féin team & visitors safe in Brussels. 0 -
Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.0
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This is an outstanding midnight thread from Alastair. I am indeed betting accordingly.0
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I don't know if this has been updated this morning, but the government's information on terrorism in Belgium is interesting:
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/belgium/terrorismThere is a high threat from terrorism. Attacks could be indiscriminate, including on public transport and transport hubs and in other places visited by foreigners.
Brussels hosts a number of international institutions (EU and NATO) and government and foreign embassy buildings which are sensitive locations.0 -
https://www.flickr.com/photos/currybet/24318010/in/album-556380/SouthamObserver said:
Really? So, for two hours people were saying to the BBC "it's moslem terrorists, it's moslem terrorists, just look at the evidence" and the BBC was saying "no it's not, it's electrical failure, moslems did not do it". That is extraordinary. I cannot believe that in all of the confusion and carnage it took less than two hours to figure out exactly what had happened and that I have forgotten that it did.MikeK said:
Yes insisted is the word. They (BBC and Government) didn't want to believe that a terrorist attack on multiple targets, could actually be happening in dear old London. Especially not from muslims.SouthamObserver said:
Insisted? Really?MikeK said:
Ah, but I remember our own London bombings when the BBC insisted for more than 2 hours that those explosions on the tube were simply electrical malfunctions.CarlottaVance said:
Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?MikeK said:The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.
Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....
Note the time stamp: 10.25. The bombings occurred just before 9.00
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But the inaccurate memes are the best!TheScreamingEagles said:
Before an innacurate meme begins it was an ex CCHQ employee who was worried about the party.Charles said:Just yesterday @TSE was telling us that CCHQ had asked him to write threads to remind the Tory right what happened in the 1990s.
Today, we have this piece (and Mr. Meeks, although well written as usual - if 50% too long (also as usual) - you don't really have much of a grasp of the inner workings of the Tory Party, do you.
There are a bunch of irreconcilables. There always will be. They have more power right now because of a small majority and have latched on to the EU referendum as a means to attack Cameron.
But the vast majority of the Tory party - in parliament and outside - is minded towards unity. They will disagree - vehemently - on this issue. I have no doubt that some individual relationships will be shattered. But overall the party wants to remain in power, and believes that Corbyn would be a disaster for the country. Many of the positive-Leavers on this board (e.g. @PhilipThompson @MarqueeMark) have said they would vote for Cameron if he was to stand for re-election after the referendum.
It won't be BoJo. It probably won't be Gove. It won't be Javid (or Morgan). It won't be Osborne. May has a good chance as a safe-ish pair of hands if there is a choice in the next 6 months. Otherwise I think it will be a mid-ranking member of the Cabinet (a Truss, Rudd, Crabbe or somesuch).
It wasn't Andrew Feldman ringing me and telling me. 0 -
It was and is an error to talk of seeking to reform the EU. If they had said the aim is to reform and formalise our relationship with the EU it would have been more accurate and less misleading.Alanbrooke said:"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. By that definition, the Eurosceptic right of the Conservative party is insane."
Of course but they're hardly alone, Europhiles saying they will reform Europe while it steams off in the opposite direction as it has done for 40 years are just as insane.
Maybe Europe just does your head in.
Because that is what Cam did in Brussels.
Speaking of which all a bit distracted right now.0 -
Evan Lamos
Just arrived at Schuman station after walking on the tracks. https://t.co/4xc0YCQmIv0 -
No but I thought it...GIN1138 said:
Anyone going to say it...Plato_Says said:Gerry Adams
All Sinn Féin team & visitors safe in Brussels.0 -
In the post I responded to you seem to criticise Cameron for his belief in the importance of European cooperation against terrorism. And there are plenty of idiots on here today who seem to think if we get out of the EU quick we won't have any more terrorist attacks here in the UK. Lunacy simply doesn't cut it with the likes of Mike K.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Felix, I'm confused by your post. I'm agreeing that Leave shouldn't try and make political capital out of this, and simply adding, as others have said, that nor should Remain.
Mr. Eagles, that's a very stupid thing for Soames to say. For most people, the idea of giving a dog a kicking is abhorrent.0 -
Andrew Neil @afneil 3 mins3 minutes ago
New reports, sourced to Brussels fire service, four metro stations under attack. Belgian capital under terrorist onslaught multiple fronts
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Andrew Neil
New reports, sourced to Brussels fire service, four metro stations under attack. Belgian capital under terrorist onslaught multiple fronts
Sky confirm airport suicide bomber0 -
I don't think it was a case of 'pretending'. There would have a little amount of I-can't-believe-this-is-happening, but what people knew in the news studios at a time when there would have been a great deal of conflicting information coming in cannot be easily judged in hindsight.ThreeQuidder said:After the second explosion it was unlikely to be electrical problems. After the third it was effectively impossible. It's too long ago for me to remember with confidence how it was reported but my memory is that the electrical fault line was reported relatively unquestioningly for some time after the third explosion.
After the bomb on the bus, nobody could pretend.
I had that day off work and was at my parents - for some reason I wasn't doing my planned walk. I watched the news, and remember the confusion between the locations, particularly the explosions either side of Kings Cross.
As an example of the confusion:It was originally thought that there had been six, rather than three, explosions on the Underground network. The bus bombing brought the reported total to seven; this was clarified later in the day. The erroneous reporting can be attributed to the fact that the blasts occurred on trains that were between stations, causing wounded passengers to emerge from both stations, giving the impression that there was an incident at each. Police also revised the timings of the tube blasts: initial reports had indicated that they occurred during a period of almost half an hour. This was due to initial confusion at London Underground (LU), where the explosions were originally believed to have been caused by power surges. An early report, made in the minutes after the explosions, involved a person under a train, while another described a derailment (both of which did occur, but only as a result of the explosions). A code amber alert was declared by LU at 09:19, and LU began to cease the network's operations, ordering trains to continue only to the next station and suspending all services.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings0 -
headbangers having their moment in the sun, I hope cammo puts them back in their box before too much longer... if not - a new tory party not obsessed etc becomes ever more open for business.0
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Mr. Felix, no, I did not. I criticised Cameron for doing something you and I agree the Leave campaign also should not do (making political capital out of the terrorism/security argument).
International co-operation against terrorism is absolutely not contingent on being inside, or outside, the EU.0 -
Ross Hawkins
Extraordinary from @FrankRGardner -says Belgian cops have to get Belgian intelligence via British cops & MI5 because they don't share info
WTF WTF WTF0 -
Yes, but we haven't had the "this is nothing to do with islam" speeches from Obama and Cameron yet.john_zims said:@richardDodd
'The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...'
So much for the safer IN guff.0 -
This like London 2005, again. The same disbelief, the same panic when the news finally strikes home.Plato_Says said:Andrew Neil
New reports, sourced to Brussels fire service, four metro stations under attack. Belgian capital under terrorist onslaught multiple fronts
Sky confirm airport suicide bomber0 -
Belgian authorities have opened an #emergency number: +32 2 506 711
#brussels0 -
I see Brussels wasn't even at the highest terror threat level** earlier this morning.
** Makes absolutely no difference, of course.0 -
Ultimately this is a betting site. If you are betting on the next election you should take note that the Conservative Party is standing on a trapdoor with a noose round its neck. At moment an incompetent hangman called Jeremy Corbyn can't find the lever to pull. But other executioners are available.Luckyguy1983 said:Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.
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Exactly right.Morris_Dancer said:International co-operation against terrorism is absolutely not contingent on being inside, or outside, the EU.
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What panic? No one in London 'panicked'. Most people gritted their teeth and got on with it.MikeK said:
This like London 2005, again. The same disbelief, the same panic when the news finally strikes home.Plato_Says said:Andrew Neil
New reports, sourced to Brussels fire service, four metro stations under attack. Belgian capital under terrorist onslaught multiple fronts
Sky confirm airport suicide bomber0 -
Why do political parties have to be bleached of character and opinion until they become totally anodyne and featureless? I may disagree with the Tory right but I have a great deal of respect for them - they have clear views honestly held with a philosophy which is clear and distinctive. Same with Labour's left and the Kennedy wing of the party formerly known as the LibDems.Scrapheap_as_was said:headbangers having their moment in the sun, I hope cammo puts them back in their box before too much longer... if not - a new tory party not obsessed etc becomes ever more open for business.
Better to have parties of principle with policies you can distinguish fighting for our votes than what we ended up with in 2010 and 2015 - three parties all saying broadly the same thing, all touting the status quo with a few detail differences to placate the "ideologues". It no wonder so few people vote when what's on offer is as Gallow put it "three cheeks of the same arse"0 -
Piffle.Wanderer said:
Ultimately this is a betting site. If you are betting on the next election you should take note that the Conservative Party is standing on a trapdoor with a noose round its neck. At moment an incompetent hangman called Jeremy Corbyn can't find the lever to pull. But other executioners are available.Luckyguy1983 said:Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.
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Unofficial reports 13 dead. 35 severely injured.0
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I do wonder if this is connected to the recent arrest of Salah Abdeslam.
either/and:
1) Revenge for the arrest.
2) They knew Abdeslam knew their identities, so bought plans forward before they could be arrested.0 -
That's accurate, its get nothing to do with Islam.... It's however probably got a lot to do with mentally disturbed / brainwashed people with inaccurate ideas of what Islam means and preachesLewisDuckworth said:
Yes, but we haven't had the "this is nothing to do with islam" speeches from Obama and Cameron yet.john_zims said:@richardDodd
'The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...'
So much for the safer IN guff.0 -
Brussels Airport
Questions about family or friends > Call 02/753.73.00
BREAKING: Belgian broadcaster VRT says 13 dead, 35 severely injured after #Brussels explosions - Reuters0 -
The article makes fair points about the barmy end of Eurosceptic tory mps but it lacks imagination about whether a successor to Cameron would do better than him.The referendum is happening because whatever his strengths Cameron is a basically a weak leader.Again and again Cameron has done panicky U-turn after U-turn or simply waved a white flag at whatever the `experts` or`fashion` state is the right thing to do.
Until somebody is new in a job it is difficult to say how they will do but the UK needs a leader that is prepared to take on difficult long term challenges like simplifying the tax & benefits system ,caring for an ageing population and take on nepotism and lobby groups in govt spending.Most of all the UK needs a leader who believes in establishment figures having to pay for inexcusable mistakes instead of what we have have had over Basra & Helmand,leveraged banking, sex abuse scandals, South Staffordshire deaths etc where patently most figures in authority have gotten away with extreme negligence.Cameron has long ago been exposed as a leader who does not have the moral fibre or will to take on establishment nepotism .That is why anti-establishment figures like Corbyn or Trump are resonating - lots of people are fed up with establishment cover-ups0 -
Soames is the europhiles' version of Tony Marlow.TheScreamingEagles said:Nicholas Soames compares Brexiteers to an Alsatian that must be kicked “really hard in the balls”
http://www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2016/03/interview-nicholas-soames-compares-brexiteers-to-an-alsatian-that-must-be-kicked-really-hard-in-the-balls.html0 -
Yep - Red, Yellow AND Blue. The only consolation for the Tories is that this budget happened in 2016 not 2020, so they have a chance to repair the damage. This also suggests that there will be a backlash in the council elections in May (Tories still divided), so betting on substantial Tory gains should probably be avoided.Wanderer said:
Ultimately this is a betting site. If you are betting on the next election you should take note that the Conservative Party is standing on a trapdoor with a noose round its neck. At moment an incompetent hangman called Jeremy Corbyn can't find the lever to pull. But other executioners are available.Luckyguy1983 said:Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.
Presumably UKIP will do moderately well as Europe is in the forefront, as their vote tends to increase the more the topic is publicised (trends in Opinion polling seem to confirm that).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election0 -
Mr. Wanderer, the Conservatives aren't in a good place. The question is whether it's better or worse than being led by a unilateralist and Mao, and how things will develop over the next few years.
A lot of that depends on the referendum result (and, if Remain wins, the margin of victory). Either a Leave vote or a strong Remain is good for the blues. A narrow Remain will increase tensions.0 -
We must agree to differ. I think working together against terrorism is a sound argument. Equally I consider using the current unfolding situation in Belgium as an argument for Brexit which several Leave supporters have done this morning, is beneath contemptMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Felix, no, I did not. I criticised Cameron for doing something you and I agree the Leave campaign also should not do (making political capital out of the terrorism/security argument).
International co-operation against terrorism is absolutely not contingent on being inside, or outside, the EU.0 -
People were saying 'piffle' in the early/mid 1990s as the Conservative party stamped on the trapdoor.Plato_Says said:Piffle.
Wanderer said:
Ultimately this is a betting site. If you are betting on the next election you should take note that the Conservative Party is standing on a trapdoor with a noose round its neck. At moment an incompetent hangman called Jeremy Corbyn can't find the lever to pull. But other executioners are available.Luckyguy1983 said:Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.
At the moment they are lucky in the fact their main enemy is poor. But a new general might come to the fore, or the present one might learn (yeah, I know).0 -
Mr. Jessop, just a guess, but I suspect it might be bringing plans forward. Perhaps not just because he might talk, but documents might have been captured indicating plans.
If it were revenge, one would've thought law enforcement would've been targeted.0 -
Mr. Felix, working together does not require membership of the EU. The UK and US intelligence services work together very closely.0
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Indeed - there are none so blind....JosiasJessop said:
People were saying 'piffle' in the early/mid 1990s as the Conservative party stamped on the trapdoor.Plato_Says said:Piffle.
Wanderer said:
Ultimately this is a betting site. If you are betting on the next election you should take note that the Conservative Party is standing on a trapdoor with a noose round its neck. At moment an incompetent hangman called Jeremy Corbyn can't find the lever to pull. But other executioners are available.Luckyguy1983 said:Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.
At the moment they are lucky in the fact their main enemy is poor. But a new general might come to the fore, or the present one might learn (yeah, I know).0 -
You think the Tories would be in good shape against a competent Labour leader? Seriously? They can't even pass a budget.Plato_Says said:Piffle.
Wanderer said:
Ultimately this is a betting site. If you are betting on the next election you should take note that the Conservative Party is standing on a trapdoor with a noose round its neck. At moment an incompetent hangman called Jeremy Corbyn can't find the lever to pull. But other executioners are available.Luckyguy1983 said:Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.
And there are still three months to go until the referendum.0 -
Reports of ten dead in Metro station and another possible station bomb blast.
Eurostar suspended0 -
And four years to the next GE. And this isn't 1990 either.Wanderer said:
You think the Tories would be in good shape against a competent Labour leader? Seriously? They can't even pass a budget.Plato_Says said:Piffle.
Wanderer said:
Ultimately this is a betting site. If you are betting on the next election you should take note that the Conservative Party is standing on a trapdoor with a noose round its neck. At moment an incompetent hangman called Jeremy Corbyn can't find the lever to pull. But other executioners are available.Luckyguy1983 said:Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.
And there are still three months to go until the referendum.0 -
One wonders where a number of our current good relationships will go if we vote for isolationism. Just because we opt for a bucketful of nonsense does not mean the rest of the world will put up with it.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Felix, working together does not require membership of the EU. The UK and US intelligence services work together very closely.
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13 dead. So say the BBC. Miserable day to watch the count grow,
However , I now have work to do, so laters.0 -
Mr. Wanderer, point of order: the Budget vote hasn't happened yet.
However, with all that's gone on, one imagines the opposition parties will be out in force, minimising the number of blue abstentions/rebels needed for the Budget to fail.0 -
Absolutely - the working majority is considerably smaller - much easier for IDS/DD/JB et al to bring the whole thing crashing down well before 2020.Plato_Says said:And four years to the next GE. And this isn't 1990 either.
Wanderer said:
You think the Tories would be in good shape against a competent Labour leader? Seriously? They can't even pass a budget.Plato_Says said:Piffle.
Wanderer said:
Ultimately this is a betting site. If you are betting on the next election you should take note that the Conservative Party is standing on a trapdoor with a noose round its neck. At moment an incompetent hangman called Jeremy Corbyn can't find the lever to pull. But other executioners are available.Luckyguy1983 said:Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.
And there are still three months to go until the referendum.0 -
Plato, do you have a source for Eurostar suspension? Eurostar currently saying the opposite. I'm due to travel in that direction tomorrow so trying to find out how bad the disruption is looking.Plato_Says said:Reports of ten dead in Metro station and another possible station bomb blast.
Eurostar suspended0 -
Like it or not, UKIP and Conservative eurosceptics are about 30% of the electorate, between them. That's a very large number of people to say "We don't want your votes" to.RochdalePioneers said:
Why do political parties have to be bleached of character and opinion until they become totally anodyne and featureless? I may disagree with the Tory right but I have a great deal of respect for them - they have clear views honestly held with a philosophy which is clear and distinctive. Same with Labour's left and the Kennedy wing of the party formerly known as the LibDems.Scrapheap_as_was said:headbangers having their moment in the sun, I hope cammo puts them back in their box before too much longer... if not - a new tory party not obsessed etc becomes ever more open for business.
Better to have parties of principle with policies you can distinguish fighting for our votes than what we ended up with in 2010 and 2015 - three parties all saying broadly the same thing, all touting the status quo with a few detail differences to placate the "ideologues". It no wonder so few people vote when what's on offer is as Gallow put it "three cheeks of the same arse"0 -
It's politics - the EU praised the rescuing of an injured French sailor by the RNLI as a good example of co-operation amongst EU members.felix said:
We must agree to differ. I think working together against terrorism is a sound argument. Equally I consider using the current unfolding situation in Belgium as an argument for Brexit which several Leave supporters have done this morning, is beneath contemptMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Felix, no, I did not. I criticised Cameron for doing something you and I agree the Leave campaign also should not do (making political capital out of the terrorism/security argument).
International co-operation against terrorism is absolutely not contingent on being inside, or outside, the EU.
Personally - I think you're right - some events transcend political infighting - like being a good day to 'bury bad news' was rightly castigated.
Nevertheless - these attacks DID occur. The EU has to now (and quickly) work out the reasons why the attacks were able to be successful and take measures to prevent future occurrences. Regrettably IMHO 'politics' will probably sway the actions taken at the highest level.0 -
Just saw the news. Hope everyone in PB land is safe!0
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4 minutes ago
Jeremy Corbyn sends "solidarity" to emergency services and victims in Brussels http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-says-brussels-explosions-
Our friend of terrorists sends condolences.0 -
One difference between 1992 and 2016 - I expect less Tory MPs to die. Major's majority was higher than Cameron's yet was gone inside three years thanks to deaths, lost by-elections and the whipless wonders. With the average age of MPs rather lower than it was I expect the attrition rate of MPs to throwing a seven.0
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Suicide bomber on metro train reported exploded in carriage
Ten dead0 -
Major resigned in June 1995 for the leadership election, almost two years before the 1997 GE. The Conservatives went downhill from there and did not recover.Plato_Says said:And four years to the next GE. And this isn't 1990 either.
Wanderer said:
You think the Tories would be in good shape against a competent Labour leader? Seriously? They can't even pass a budget.Plato_Says said:Piffle.
Wanderer said:
Ultimately this is a betting site. If you are betting on the next election you should take note that the Conservative Party is standing on a trapdoor with a noose round its neck. At moment an incompetent hangman called Jeremy Corbyn can't find the lever to pull. But other executioners are available.Luckyguy1983 said:Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.
And there are still three months to go until the referendum.
Labour are lacking three things atm that htey had in the mid-1990s:
*) Competent leadership
*) Policies that are easily saleable to the public.
*) Good media management (i.e. Mandelson / Campbell)
If they fix the first and third of these, the second will be much less important, especially if the Conservatives are in chaos.0 -
'I consider using the current unfolding situation in Belgium as an argument for Brexit which several Leave supporters have done this morning, is beneath contempt'
Oh please - the Remain side have already used the terrorist threat as an argument for staying in. Spare us the pompous posturing.0 -
Andrew Neil IIRCPolruan said:
Plato, do you have a source for Eurostar suspension? Eurostar currently saying the opposite. I'm due to travel in that direction tomorrow so trying to find out how bad the disruption is looking.Plato_Says said:Reports of ten dead in Metro station and another possible station bomb blast.
Eurostar suspended0 -
Nothing pompous about a brexit.runnymede said:'I consider using the current unfolding situation in Belgium as an argument for Brexit which several Leave supporters have done this morning, is beneath contempt'
Oh please - the Remain side have already used the terrorist threat as an argument for staying in. Spare us the pompous posturing.0 -
I wonder if the Eurostar mixed messages are reconcilable. If they've suspended things for a time to do searches and security checks and will then resume, that could make sense.0
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You are going to spend those four years recriminating about the EU and failing to pass any significant legislation because you have a vestigial and very unreliable majority in the Commons. A highly disciplined party might be able to make it work but the Conservatives will be at each other's throats. You will stumble from one humiliation to another as you did in the 90s. The great - huge - difference is the state of the opposition but they can fix themselves.Plato_Says said:And four years to the next GE. And this isn't 1990 either.
Wanderer said:
You think the Tories would be in good shape against a competent Labour leader? Seriously? They can't even pass a budget.Plato_Says said:Piffle.
Wanderer said:
Ultimately this is a betting site. If you are betting on the next election you should take note that the Conservative Party is standing on a trapdoor with a noose round its neck. At moment an incompetent hangman called Jeremy Corbyn can't find the lever to pull. But other executioners are available.Luckyguy1983 said:Very generous of Alistair Meeks (and by extension his very tolerant employers) to offer such extensive and entirely unsolicited advice to a party he doesn't even support.
And there are still three months to go until the referendum.0 -
Thanks. Not much looking forward to travelling in the next few weeks.Plato_Says said:Andrew Neil IIRC
Polruan said:
Plato, do you have a source for Eurostar suspension? Eurostar currently saying the opposite. I'm due to travel in that direction tomorrow so trying to find out how bad the disruption is looking.Plato_Says said:Reports of ten dead in Metro station and another possible station bomb blast.
Eurostar suspended0 -
Paris have suspended too for nowPolruan said:
Thanks. Not much looking forward to travelling in the next few weeks.Plato_Says said:Andrew Neil IIRC
Polruan said:
Plato, do you have a source for Eurostar suspension? Eurostar currently saying the opposite. I'm due to travel in that direction tomorrow so trying to find out how bad the disruption is looking.Plato_Says said:Reports of ten dead in Metro station and another possible station bomb blast.
Eurostar suspended0 -
That's true. It is, however, fairly remarkable that there is genuine uncertainty over it.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Wanderer, point of order: the Budget vote hasn't happened yet.
However, with all that's gone on, one imagines the opposition parties will be out in force, minimising the number of blue abstentions/rebels needed for the Budget to fail.0 -
Might be mishearing, but BBC are saying gunshots were fired in the terminal. I wonder if the shots were from security services?
If so, I wonder what Corbyn would say about the security services firing in such circumstances?
(It could equally be the terrorists firing, although that did not happen in the London or Glasgow attacks).0 -
I said a few weeks ago that the Remain campaign needs to pray that there are no more terrorist attacks. By arguing that were safer in the EU they have left themselves hostages to fortune. Yes, any linking of this incident to the EU debate will look crass and may even be counter-productive, but it will be entirely fair game.felix said:
We must agree to differ. I think working together against terrorism is a sound argument. Equally I consider using the current unfolding situation in Belgium as an argument for Brexit which several Leave supporters have done this morning, is beneath contemptMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Felix, no, I did not. I criticised Cameron for doing something you and I agree the Leave campaign also should not do (making political capital out of the terrorism/security argument).
International co-operation against terrorism is absolutely not contingent on being inside, or outside, the EU.0 -
Eurostar have just updated their website with the followingMorris_Dancer said:I wonder if the Eurostar mixed messages are reconcilable. If they've suspended things for a time to do searches and security checks and will then resume, that could make sense.
"Following the incident in Brussels Airport today we would like to confirm that Eurostar services are running normally. We advise customers to allow extra time for check-in as security checks may take longer. Please be aware that public transport in Brussels may be disrupted."
I guess the next train out of Brussels will still depart because the passengers are already going to be through security. I'd be a bit nervous if I was on the one that left shortly before this all kicked off though. I guess we may see later trains from London terminating at Lille if Brussels stays locked down (and it's hard to see how it won't for the rest of today).0 -
And note use of the word "blamed". No insistence there, just reporting what was being said.weejonnie said:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/currybet/24318010/in/album-556380/SouthamObserver said:
Really? So, for two hours people were saying to the BBC "it's moslem terrorists, it's moslem terrorists, just look at the evidence" and the BBC was saying "no it's not, it's electrical failure, moslems did not do it". That is extraordinary. I cannot believe that in all of the confusion and carnage it took less than two hours to figure out exactly what had happened and that I have forgotten that it did.MikeK said:
Yes insisted is the word. They (BBC and Government) didn't want to believe that a terrorist attack on multiple targets, could actually be happening in dear old London. Especially not from muslims.SouthamObserver said:
Insisted? Really?MikeK said:
Ah, but I remember our own London bombings when the BBC insisted for more than 2 hours that those explosions on the tube were simply electrical malfunctions.CarlottaVance said:
Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?MikeK said:The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.
Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....
Note the time stamp: 10.25. The bombings occurred just before 9.00
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