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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Alastair Meeks: How the Eurosceptics are destroying the Co

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178


    Is JC the son of a millionaire? Has he covered up for paedos (more than any other politician?) Is there a correlation between political competence and academic success? You all know I am no fan of his, I've been too close to him for that - but let's stick to the facts.

    Labour's problem isn't JC, it's the oppositionist thinking of his fan club. That includes Nick Palmer (and indeed my daughter) both of whom I had thought had far more sense.

    His father owned a million pound house, like Miliband Sr. That suggests he had a few quid.

    He was told what was happening in Islington by the persistent Ms Davies in 1993. He believed she was motivated by homophobia and did nothing. True, there are politicians on all sides who have a nasty story on this, but he's about the last active one.

    No - Baldwin springs to mind - but there is a correlation between stupidity and political failure.

    I agree his fan club are also a problem, but Corbyn is certainly a major problem in and of himself. If Clive Lewis or even Emily Thornberry were the leader, I would be much less concerned, and their views are little different from Corbyn's.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    edited March 2016
    Good morning anyway

    Back after a few days Cheltenham detox.

    What on earth was John Redwod talking about on R4 this morning that we would get GBP12bn to spend as we want if we were not in the EU. Not in EEA we wouldn't where there are estimates of savings of around GBP1bn.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    t
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mr rcs1000, did not a major financial firm certify that the Greek economy was fi to enter the Euro. Much, IIRC, to the amazement of several reputable commentators!

    I believe something of that kind may have happened.
    IIRC the advisory fee was well north of $100m!

    I will give it to the folks at Peterborough Court: they know how to gouge their clients to the max.
    And that's why the objectivity of pronouncements by big banks and big businesses shouldn't be trusted.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Next Labour leader Emily Thornberry? :smiley::smiley::smiley:
    ydoethur said:


    Is JC the son of a millionaire? Has he covered up for paedos (more than any other politician?) Is there a correlation between political competence and academic success? You all know I am no fan of his, I've been too close to him for that - but let's stick to the facts.

    Labour's problem isn't JC, it's the oppositionist thinking of his fan club. That includes Nick Palmer (and indeed my daughter) both of whom I had thought had far more sense.

    His father owned a million pound house, like Miliband Sr. That suggests he had a few quid.

    He was told what was happening in Islington by the persistent Ms Davies in 1993. He believed she was motivated by homophobia and did nothing. True, there are politicians on all sides who have a nasty story on this, but he's about the last active one.

    No - Baldwin springs to mind - but there is a correlation between stupidity and political failure.

    I agree his fan club are also a problem, but Corbyn is certainly a major problem in and of himself. If Clive Lewis or even Emily Thornberry were the leader, I would be much less concerned, and their views are little different from Corbyn's.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    UPDATE: Several dead and wounded following explosion at Brussels Airport, Belgian Federal Police spokesman says: NBC News - @BreakingNews
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178
    RoyalBlue said:

    Speedy said:

    The main difference between the 90's and now is that the Tories had their credibility destroyed by Black Wednesday, they were on course for defeat before the rebellion over Maastricht.

    There is a parallel there too. They won in 2015 principally because they were seen as the party with a sound grip on economics - Labour was seen as nicer but the Tories would look after the economy. Whether that is still the case, and will continue to be the case, seems incresingly doubtful. And if they lose their reputation for sound management, they don't actually have much else in the eyes of the general public.
    Yes, because the public will leap at the chance to have a PM who looks like a homeless supply teacher.

    Dream on.
    Why is it everyone compares Corbyn to a teacher? I have to dress smartly (my predecessor was sacked because he refused to follow the dress code!) and supply teachers normally have to be even more careful or they're not asked back.

    He looks more like an elderly sixth former, whose ties and top buttons are always a disgrace in my experience.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Through gritted teeth. His speech extracts will require an Oscar winning performance :wink:

    Osborne to praise IDS and defend ‘compassionate’ budget http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4718670.ece

    I'm sure Osborne will be quite as sincere in his praise as was IDS when pretending his resignation was unconnected with with Brexit or personality.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Charles said:

    Off topic, what is it with this plague of feedback?

    I can't use any website, bank, bookie, store or online booking service now without being asked via email for "feedback".

    Invariably, it's tedious and geared towards given them some nice % KPIs to throw about in their marketing literature. So I ignore.

    On the rare occasion where I offer unsolicited feedback (e.g. to my bank, over the telephone, about being transferred/put on hold too much) it's made perfectly clear to me in the dismissive response by the operator that it's not their job, and not particularly welcome either.

    change your bank?
    Yup, done so - to First Direct, who answer the phone immediately and gave me £150 for the switch.

    I did try explaining why I did to Santander but they couldn't give a shit.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Weird pix, guy walking by as if nothing is wrong

    Brussels airport now.. #Zaventem #BrusselsAirport #brusselsattack #belgium https://t.co/J4Jk6rCpaU
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178

    Next Labour leader Emily Thornberry? :smiley::smiley::smiley:

    ydoethur said:


    Is JC the son of a millionaire? Has he covered up for paedos (more than any other politician?) Is there a correlation between political competence and academic success? You all know I am no fan of his, I've been too close to him for that - but let's stick to the facts.

    Labour's problem isn't JC, it's the oppositionist thinking of his fan club. That includes Nick Palmer (and indeed my daughter) both of whom I had thought had far more sense.

    His father owned a million pound house, like Miliband Sr. That suggests he had a few quid.

    He was told what was happening in Islington by the persistent Ms Davies in 1993. He believed she was motivated by homophobia and did nothing. True, there are politicians on all sides who have a nasty story on this, but he's about the last active one.

    No - Baldwin springs to mind - but there is a correlation between stupidity and political failure.

    I agree his fan club are also a problem, but Corbyn is certainly a major problem in and of himself. If Clive Lewis or even Emily Thornberry were the leader, I would be much less concerned, and their views are little different from Corbyn's.
    Labour have sunk that low that the pseudo-colonel would be an improvement. Just keep her away from white vans!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    On topic although a Leaver I find it very hard to disagree with Alastair. Not banging on about Europe worked very well in the first half of Cameron's leadership and the more he has the more problems the Tory party faces.

    I am now genuinely torn. I think that the EU will integrate further. It has to to make the EZ work. As it does so EU policy and the machinery of governance will increasingly focus on the needs of the EZ to the detriment of non EZ members like ourselves. We face an increasingly unattractive trade off of accepting laws that are not designed for our needs, whilst paying more for the privilege in exchange for less and less influence. It makes much more sense to take a step away without running away altogether by becoming a member of the EEA and recognising our "special status" in this way. I think it is inevitable that this will happen at some point even if it does not happen in this referendum.

    OTOH, despite inevitable mistakes, inevitable incompetence and at times an excess of caution I think that Cameron's government has been one of the best of my adult life in very difficult circumstances. The combination of fiscal prudence and social liberality is exactly what I want, even if I do not agree with every choice they have made.

    When the UK eventually decides that the EU is not a club that it wants to be in no doubt the trouble makers will claim to be vindicated and to have been right all along. But they will still have been a shower of bastards.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    ydoethur said:


    Is JC the son of a millionaire? Has he covered up for paedos (more than any other politician?) Is there a correlation between political competence and academic success? You all know I am no fan of his, I've been too close to him for that - but let's stick to the facts.

    Labour's problem isn't JC, it's the oppositionist thinking of his fan club. That includes Nick Palmer (and indeed my daughter) both of whom I had thought had far more sense.

    His father owned a million pound house, like Miliband Sr. That suggests he had a few quid.

    He was told what was happening in Islington by the persistent Ms Davies in 1993. He believed she was motivated by homophobia and did nothing. True, there are politicians on all sides who have a nasty story on this, but he's about the last active one.

    No - Baldwin springs to mind - but there is a correlation between stupidity and political failure.

    I agree his fan club are also a problem, but Corbyn is certainly a major problem in and of himself. If Clive Lewis or even Emily Thornberry were the leader, I would be much less concerned, and their views are little different from Corbyn's.

    My Mum owns a million pound house which she and my Dad bought for £7,000 in I970. She would be a millionaire if she sold it and then decided to live somewhere else completely. But she hasn't, so she isn't.

    I have absolutely no time for Corbyn, but calling everyone who has got lucky with property a millionaire is a bit silly.

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    edited March 2016
    Deleted
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Anna Ahronheim
    Update: At least 11 dead, 20 injured at #Brussels airport explosion
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Weird pix, guy walking by as if nothing is wrong

    Brussels airport now.. #Zaventem #BrusselsAirport #brusselsattack #belgium https://t.co/J4Jk6rCpaU

    Possibly in shock. Strange things happen.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited March 2016
    What would be the correct form for Lady Nugee and her rank?

    Nugee residence, Colonel of the house speaking...
    ydoethur said:

    Next Labour leader Emily Thornberry? :smiley::smiley::smiley:

    ydoethur said:


    Is JC the son of a millionaire? Has he covered up for paedos (more than any other politician?) Is there a correlation between political competence and academic success? You all know I am no fan of his, I've been too close to him for that - but let's stick to the facts.

    Labour's problem isn't JC, it's the oppositionist thinking of his fan club. That includes Nick Palmer (and indeed my daughter) both of whom I had thought had far more sense.

    His father owned a million pound house, like Miliband Sr. That suggests he had a few quid.

    He was told what was happening in Islington by the persistent Ms Davies in 1993. He believed she was motivated by homophobia and did nothing. True, there are politicians on all sides who have a nasty story on this, but he's about the last active one.

    No - Baldwin springs to mind - but there is a correlation between stupidity and political failure.

    I agree his fan club are also a problem, but Corbyn is certainly a major problem in and of himself. If Clive Lewis or even Emily Thornberry were the leader, I would be much less concerned, and their views are little different from Corbyn's.
    Labour have sunk that low that the pseudo-colonel would be an improvement. Just keep her away from white vans!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Just yesterday @TSE was telling us that CCHQ had asked him to write threads to remind the Tory right what happened in the 1990s.

    Today, we have this piece (and Mr. Meeks, although well written as usual - if 50% too long (also as usual) - you don't really have much of a grasp of the inner workings of the Tory Party, do you.

    There are a bunch of irreconcilables. There always will be. They have more power right now because of a small majority and have latched on to the EU referendum as a means to attack Cameron.

    But the vast majority of the Tory party - in parliament and outside - is minded towards unity. They will disagree - vehemently - on this issue. I have no doubt that some individual relationships will be shattered. But overall the party wants to remain in power, and believes that Corbyn would be a disaster for the country. Many of the positive-Leavers on this board (e.g. @PhilipThompson @MarqueeMark) have said they would vote for Cameron if he was to stand for re-election after the referendum.

    It won't be BoJo. It probably won't be Gove. It won't be Javid (or Morgan). It won't be Osborne. May has a good chance as a safe-ish pair of hands if there is a choice in the next 6 months. Otherwise I think it will be a mid-ranking member of the Cabinet (a Truss, Rudd, Crabbe or somesuch).

    Your fourth paragraph ignores the point of your third paragraph. Sometimes a determined minority, even a small minority, can frustrate the will of the great majority. Such a minority did so in the 1990s. A similar minority is shaping up to do so again now. That, in essence, is the point of the thread header.

    As in the 1990s, the small minority will be allowed to wreck the government because of the connivance of a larger minority sympathetic to their cause. Once that happens, the identity of the next Conservative leader is more or less irrelevant: we will have non-government.
    Nah, what happened in the 1990s was that the party was in turmoil - Major had a much larger group of rebels with running series of votes in Parliament.

    Here there is a single referendum which will largely deal with the issue (Except for the anti-Cameroon individuals who would be anti-Cameron anyway and are largely ignored)

    There is a bigger issue with the fact that there are a bunch of Tory MPs who are swayed by social media and lack a spine.
    Actuallly, on this budget, I have little sympathy with the rebels despite being a Brexiter.

    We still have a huge deficit to close.

    If the Tory party isn't going to be dry on the money, and drive for a competitive low tax economy, then who is?
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    ydoethur said:


    Is JC the son of a millionaire? Has he covered up for paedos (more than any other politician?) Is there a correlation between political competence and academic success? You all know I am no fan of his, I've been too close to him for that - but let's stick to the facts.

    Labour's problem isn't JC, it's the oppositionist thinking of his fan club. That includes Nick Palmer (and indeed my daughter) both of whom I had thought had far more sense.

    His father owned a million pound house, like Miliband Sr. That suggests he had a few quid.

    He was told what was happening in Islington by the persistent Ms Davies in 1993. He believed she was motivated by homophobia and did nothing. True, there are politicians on all sides who have a nasty story on this, but he's about the last active one.

    No - Baldwin springs to mind - but there is a correlation between stupidity and political failure.

    I agree his fan club are also a problem, but Corbyn is certainly a major problem in and of himself. If Clive Lewis or even Emily Thornberry were the leader, I would be much less concerned, and their views are little different from Corbyn's.

    My Mum owns a million pound house which she and my Dad bought for £7,000 in I970. She would be a millionaire if she sold it and then decided to live somewhere else completely. But she hasn't, so she isn't.

    I have absolutely no time for Corbyn, but calling everyone who has got lucky with property a millionaire is a bit silly.

    Truthful, though. The million doesn't have to be liquid.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    The dreadful attack in Brussels may well have an impact on air travel here today, as aircraft inbound for Belgium are destacked and diverted to UK airports.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'In thread header after thread header Meeks calls Leavers insane, infantile and mad, there has to be a bigger picture.'

    Well it may tell you something about his own state of mind.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    All very puzzling, yesterday TSE told us that CCHQ was begging him for positive threads, the very next day Meeks pulls one of his many pro Remain threads from the drawer.

    I'm interested to hear what TSE and Meeks hope to gain from such toadying, obsequious behaviour. A job, an audience with Dave, recognition - what is the motive? In thread header after thread header Meeks calls Leavers insane, infantile and mad, there has to be a bigger picture.

    Interestingly the header says that Cameron is the politician the public respects, hogwash. Ask labour voters, ukip voters, SNP voters, a growing number of conservatives if they respect Cameron, of course they don't. This site is increasingly representative of this peculiar, self appointed bubble that seeks to frame but is actually massively out of touch with public opinion.

    If, and its still a reasonable sized if, Leave wins, this site will be like a day old battlefield after the referendum.

    If I wanted to curry favour with the Prime Minister, I can think of better ways of doing it than predicting the inevitable demise of his government into purposeless enervation.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    The Maastricht rebels were right - the European Union project has been a disaster. The Euro I'd a basket case that has impoverished half of southern Europe whilst leaving the northern countries paying the bill. Free movement of Labour - a disaster both for the eastern nations who had their hardest worming and most industrious people leave, and for the western nations whose native workforce have had pay and conditions squashed by the vast pool of Labour competing for too few jobs.

    They might have looked bonkers but what they rebelled against was bonkers. And it's not just here. If our referendum is out, or even a narrow in, the pressure on other states for the own referenda will become deafening. The people didn't sign onto a juggernaut of bankers and bureaucrats doing what is right for their narrow interests regardless of cost. The politicians claim a mandate but what mandate when your choices of government are all saying the same thing?

    It is far from clear that the EZ has been a disaster. Certainly recent years have been poor (though EZ growth in Dec 2015 was 1.6% compared to UK 1.9% so not a great difference) but for 15 years before that the performance was very good. This graph shows GDP per person of the UK and EZ over the decades. The two lines are closer now than at the formation of the EZ.


    source: tradingeconomics.com
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178

    ydoethur said:


    Is JC the son of a millionaire? Has he covered up for paedos (more than any other politician?) Is there a correlation between political competence and academic success? You all know I am no fan of his, I've been too close to him for that - but let's stick to the facts.

    Labour's problem isn't JC, it's the oppositionist thinking of his fan club. That includes Nick Palmer (and indeed my daughter) both of whom I had thought had far more sense.

    His father owned a million pound house, like Miliband Sr. That suggests he had a few quid.

    He was told what was happening in Islington by the persistent Ms Davies in 1993. He believed she was motivated by homophobia and did nothing. True, there are politicians on all sides who have a nasty story on this, but he's about the last active one.

    No - Baldwin springs to mind - but there is a correlation between stupidity and political failure.

    I agree his fan club are also a problem, but Corbyn is certainly a major problem in and of himself. If Clive Lewis or even Emily Thornberry were the leader, I would be much less concerned, and their views are little different from Corbyn's.

    My Mum owns a million pound house which she and my Dad bought for £7,000 in I970. She would be a millionaire if she sold it and then decided to live somewhere else completely. But she hasn't, so she isn't.

    I have absolutely no time for Corbyn, but calling everyone who has got lucky with property a millionaire is a bit silly.

    As I understand it, the house in question had seven bedrooms and a large garden.

    OK, I'll take back the millionaire part. His family
    Were still very wealthy. I'd have a whole lot more respect for politicians like Hurd, Corbyn and the Milibands if they didn't try to pretend they were from poor backgrounds and understood ordinary people.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Oh dear

    @allisonpearson: Brussels, de facto capital of the EU, is also the jihadist capital of Europe. And the Remainers dare to say we're safer in the EU! #Brexit
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2016
    runnymede said:

    'In thread header after thread header Meeks calls Leavers insane, infantile and mad, there has to be a bigger picture.'

    Well it may tell you something about his own state of mind.

    He's terrified at being forced to queue at Budapest airport in the event of Leave? It will really mess up his weekends.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @allisonpearson: Brussels, de facto capital of the EU, is also the jihadist capital of Europe. And the Remainers dare to say we're safer in the EU! #Brexit

    And I though Londinistan was the capital of Jihadism.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Matt :smiley:

    Matt's latest is sure to spark controversy and debate. https://t.co/aSe93B6U0M
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    watford30 said:

    Weird pix, guy walking by as if nothing is wrong

    Brussels airport now.. #Zaventem #BrusselsAirport #brusselsattack #belgium https://t.co/J4Jk6rCpaU

    Possibly in shock. Strange things happen.
    That is disturbing. Almost like a still from a film.

    I really hope those casuality figures aren't true.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @allisonpearson: Brussels, de facto capital of the EU, is also the jihadist capital of Europe. And the Remainers dare to say we're safer in the EU! #Brexit

    That is nauseating.

  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Speedy said:

    The main difference between the 90's and now is that the Tories had their credibility destroyed by Black Wednesday, they were on course for defeat before the rebellion over Maastricht.

    There is a parallel there too. They won in 2015 principally because they were seen as the party with a sound grip on economics - Labour was seen as nicer but the Tories would look after the economy. Whether that is still the case, and will continue to be the case, seems incresingly doubtful. And if they lose their reputation for sound management, they don't actually have much else in the eyes of the general public.
    Yes, because the public will leap at the chance to have a PM who looks like a homeless supply teacher.

    Dream on.
    Why is it everyone compares Corbyn to a teacher? I have to dress smartly (my predecessor was sacked because he refused to follow the dress code!) and supply teachers normally have to be even more careful or they're not asked back.

    He looks more like an elderly sixth former, whose ties and top buttons are always a disgrace in my experience.
    Sorry ydoethur, I'm sure you're a model of style and panache :)

    People think teacher because of the poor attempt at being smart; they obviously wouldn't say that if he rocked up in jeans and T-shirt.

    I understand if you can't comment but I'd be interested to know your thoughts on teaching assistants. It's always seemed rather perverse to me to have people in the classroom with no academic qualifications, and I suspect like PCSOs it's a way of massaging unemployment by creating public sector jobs for the unskilled. Were they only rolled out en masse after 1997?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,367
    edited March 2016
    The tennis equality fuss is amusing.

    Here, equality trumps logic. The men are better, and they attract more support, but the women are given equal pay for ideological reasons. We all know that.

    For the same ideological reason, the veterans and juniors at Wimbledon should be given equal pay, surely? Or is ageism allowed?

    I'm not much a tennis fan, but if I watch a match, I 'd like the see the best players. As with other sports.

    The female footballers complain they are underpaid compared to the men. So is everyone else compared to the vastly over-paid premiership stars, but market forces rule.

    Except when they don't.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790

    The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...

    Yep, of course. Because if we left the EU it would mean that there would be no terrorist attacks here.

  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...

    Yep, of course. Because if we left the EU it would mean that there would be no terrorist attacks here.

    There were no attacks from Islamic terrorists before we joined the EU.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    watford30 said:

    Weird pix, guy walking by as if nothing is wrong

    Brussels airport now.. #Zaventem #BrusselsAirport #brusselsattack #belgium https://t.co/J4Jk6rCpaU

    Possibly in shock. Strange things happen.
    That is disturbing. Almost like a still from a film.

    I really hope those casuality figures aren't true.
    People do very odd things in such dreadful situations, continuing with routine tasks whilst all around is utter carnage. It's very common, a shock mechanism.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...

    little islander mentality and utter bollocks to boot.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @allisonpearson: Brussels, de facto capital of the EU, is also the jihadist capital of Europe. And the Remainers dare to say we're safer in the EU! #Brexit

    That is nauseating.

    It may be, but either way it's not great news for Remain.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    Brussels airport is a place I have been through often - the last time in December during the lockdown. Like all such places it is incredibly vulnerable to attack.

    All thoughts with the victims and their families.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @allisonpearson: Brussels, de facto capital of the EU, is also the jihadist capital of Europe. And the Remainers dare to say we're safer in the EU! #Brexit

    That is nauseating.

    Which bit, the truth about Brussels? I agree the timing is very distasteful, and wholly inappropriate.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999


    Actuallly, on this budget, I have little sympathy with the rebels despite being a Brexiter.

    We still have a huge deficit to close.

    If the Tory party isn't going to be dry on the money, and drive for a competitive low tax economy, then who is?

    I can' help but think that some of these arguments might be avoided if governments implemented a percentage-per-department scheme: as happens now with DFID and defence, each department's bufget is fixed as a percentage of the previous years GDP.

    Each department then has to cut its cloth accordingly. There will still be arguments about how each department cuts (or expands) its budgets, but there will be less inter-department chaos.

    The voters would also have something tangible to vote on in a GE: each party would say the percentages each department would get for the next parliament.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    SO... your reasoning is faulty.. Perception is all..
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    A question about these awful events in Brussels: would this be a busy time at the airport?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178
    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Speedy said:

    The main difference between the 90's and now is that the Tories had their credibility destroyed by Black Wednesday, they were on course for defeat before the rebellion over Maastricht.

    There is a parallel there too. They won in 2015 principally because they were seen as the party with a sound grip on economics - Labour was seen as nicer but the Tories would look after the economy. Whether that is still the case, and will continue to be the case, seems incresingly doubtful. And if they lose their reputation for sound management, they don't actually have much else in the eyes of the general public.
    Yes, because the public will leap at the chance to have a PM who looks like a homeless supply teacher.

    Dream on.
    Why is it everyone compares Corbyn to a teacher? I have to dress smartly (my predecessor was sacked because he refused to follow the dress code!) and supply teachers normally have to be even more careful or they're not asked back.

    He looks more like an elderly sixth former, whose ties and top buttons are always a disgrace in my experience.
    Sorry ydoethur, I'm sure you're a model of style and panache :)

    People think teacher because of the poor attempt at being smart; they obviously wouldn't say that if he rocked up in jeans and T-shirt.

    I understand if you can't comment but I'd be interested to know your thoughts on teaching assistants. It's always seemed rather perverse to me to have people in the classroom with no academic qualifications, and I suspect like PCSOs it's a way of massaging unemployment by creating public sector jobs for the unskilled. Were they only rolled out en masse after 1997?
    Haven't time to answer properly now. The key point is that funding wasn't available in the 90s until Labour came in.

    However, worth remembering they are not there to teach. They're there to help keep children especially SEND children on track and give them continuity between lessons, which helps calm them. That doesn't require academic qualifications, a calm manner and a ability to relate to children is more useful.

    A good one is worth their weight in gold in any lesson. Bad ones can be a nuisance but they're also pretty rare.

    Must dash.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @richardDodd


    'The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...'


    So much for the safer IN guff.



  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Shots fired and Arabic shouted before explosions according to Sky
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @allisonpearson: Brussels, de facto capital of the EU, is also the jihadist capital of Europe. And the Remainers dare to say we're safer in the EU! #Brexit

    That is nauseating.

    It may be, but either way it's not great news for Remain.

    My sense is that anyone who seeks to make political capital from this murderous attack will repel a majority of voters in this country. This is something that could happen anywhere in Europe at any time. And whether we are in and out of the EU makes no difference to that.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I see that Mr Meeks is going over the edge this morning.

    It's not unheard of for political parties to split and one section to form a new party, especially when that section sees that the core beliefs of the party being eroded and/or abandoned for the latest idea.

    Should this happen to the Tory party, a great deal of good may com out of it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253

    The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...

    I think that's wrong. Both Hitler and the IRA underestimated the British when it came to bombs....
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Speedy said:

    The main difference between the 90's and now is that the Tories had their credibility destroyed by Black Wednesday, they were on course for defeat before the rebellion over Maastricht.

    There is a parallel there too. They won in 2015 principally because they were seen as the party with a sound grip on economics - Labour was seen as nicer but the Tories would look after the economy. Whether that is still the case, and will continue to be the case, seems incresingly doubtful. And if they lose their reputation for sound management, they don't actually have much else in the eyes of the general public.
    Yes, because the public will leap at the chance to have a PM who looks like a homeless supply teacher.

    Dream on.
    Why is it everyone compares Corbyn to a teacher? I have to dress smartly (my predecessor was sacked because he refused to follow the dress code!) and supply teachers normally have to be even more careful or they're not asked back.

    He looks more like an elderly sixth former, whose ties and top buttons are always a disgrace in my experience.
    Sorry ydoethur, I'm sure you're a model of style and panache :)

    People think teacher because of the poor attempt at being smart; they obviously wouldn't say that if he rocked up in jeans and T-shirt.

    I understand if you can't comment but I'd be interested to know your thoughts on teaching assistants. It's always seemed rather perverse to me to have people in the classroom with no academic qualifications, and I suspect like PCSOs it's a way of massaging unemployment by creating public sector jobs for the unskilled. Were they only rolled out en masse after 1997?
    Haven't time to answer properly now. The key point is that funding wasn't available in the 90s until Labour came in.

    However, worth remembering they are not there to teach. They're there to help keep children especially SEND children on track and give them continuity between lessons, which helps calm them. That doesn't require academic qualifications, a calm manner and a ability to relate to children is more useful.

    A good one is worth their weight in gold in any lesson. Bad ones can be a nuisance but they're also pretty rare.

    Must dash.
    Thanks! Have a good day.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Fundamental misunderstanding of the natural party of government there Alastair.

    Concern with the current leadership is that the 'remain at all costs' will scupper electoral chances.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790

    SO... your reasoning is faulty.. Perception is all..

    The perception being that if we left the EU Moslem fundamentalists would no longer consider us a target for attack? That makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Can you explain?

  • All very puzzling, yesterday TSE told us that CCHQ was begging him for positive threads, the very next day Meeks pulls one of his many pro Remain threads from the drawer.

    I'm interested to hear what TSE and Meeks hope to gain from such toadying, obsequious behaviour. A job, an audience with Dave, recognition - what is the motive? In thread header after thread header Meeks calls Leavers insane, infantile and mad, there has to be a bigger picture.

    Interestingly the header says that Cameron is the politician the public respects, hogwash. Ask labour voters, ukip voters, SNP voters, a growing number of conservatives if they respect Cameron, of course they don't. This site is increasingly representative of this peculiar, self appointed bubble that seeks to frame but is actually massively out of touch with public opinion.

    If, and its still a reasonable sized if, Leave wins, this site will be like a day old battlefield after the referendum.

    Well I've already met Dave.

    And turned down a peerage*

    Alastair ruined George Osborne's budget with his pensions piece.

    *well they didn't offer me a peerage, but I could read between the lines.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790

    The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...

    I think that's wrong. Both Hitler and the IRA underestimated the British when it came to bombs....

    As have the jihadis.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Michael Horowitz
    More explosive devices were reportedly found in #Brussels Airport according to Belgian media
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    weejonnie said:

    The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...

    Yep, of course. Because if we left the EU it would mean that there would be no terrorist attacks here.

    There were no attacks from Islamic terrorists before we joined the EU.
    Plenty of Irish ones though.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Mortimer said:

    Fundamental misunderstanding of the natural party of government there Alastair.

    Concern with the current leadership is that the 'remain at all costs' will scupper electoral chances.

    Based on what?

    There is no Eurosceptic timeline of electoral success in general elections: quite the reverse. Whenever the Conservatives have defined themselves or been defined by their hostility to the EU, they've been trounced at the polls.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158


    Actuallly, on this budget, I have little sympathy with the rebels despite being a Brexiter.

    We still have a huge deficit to close.

    If the Tory party isn't going to be dry on the money, and drive for a competitive low tax economy, then who is?

    I can' help but think that some of these arguments might be avoided if governments implemented a percentage-per-department scheme: as happens now with DFID and defence, each department's bufget is fixed as a percentage of the previous years GDP.

    Each department then has to cut its cloth accordingly. There will still be arguments about how each department cuts (or expands) its budgets, but there will be less inter-department chaos.

    The voters would also have something tangible to vote on in a GE: each party would say the percentages each department would get for the next parliament.
    Nice idea JJ, but too technocratic and leaving too little wiggle room.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    A letter from a teacher of Osborne's in the Evening Standard yesterday said that while he was good in the classroom he avoided team sports which perhaps explains a few things
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    More a function of being part of the mainland, perhaps a less acute attitude towards potential threats, and not having had a PIRA apprenticeship these past few decades and therefore having a less mature counter-terrorism operation.

    Not that I suppose the likes of Alison Pearson, or I suppose other less thoughtful Brexiters will stop to consider.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    MikeK said:

    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.

    Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?

    Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    SO... your reasoning is faulty.. Perception is all..

    The perception being that if we left the EU Moslem fundamentalists would no longer consider us a target for attack? That makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Can you explain?

    Mrs Thatcher said something to the effect that Europe is the source of Britain's problems while America is the source of solutions to those problems.

    That's what he's getting at.
  • Charles said:

    Just yesterday @TSE was telling us that CCHQ had asked him to write threads to remind the Tory right what happened in the 1990s.

    Today, we have this piece (and Mr. Meeks, although well written as usual - if 50% too long (also as usual) - you don't really have much of a grasp of the inner workings of the Tory Party, do you.

    There are a bunch of irreconcilables. There always will be. They have more power right now because of a small majority and have latched on to the EU referendum as a means to attack Cameron.

    But the vast majority of the Tory party - in parliament and outside - is minded towards unity. They will disagree - vehemently - on this issue. I have no doubt that some individual relationships will be shattered. But overall the party wants to remain in power, and believes that Corbyn would be a disaster for the country. Many of the positive-Leavers on this board (e.g. @PhilipThompson @MarqueeMark) have said they would vote for Cameron if he was to stand for re-election after the referendum.

    It won't be BoJo. It probably won't be Gove. It won't be Javid (or Morgan). It won't be Osborne. May has a good chance as a safe-ish pair of hands if there is a choice in the next 6 months. Otherwise I think it will be a mid-ranking member of the Cabinet (a Truss, Rudd, Crabbe or somesuch).

    Before an innacurate meme begins it was an ex CCHQ employee who was worried about the party.

    It wasn't Andrew Feldman ringing me and telling me.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    MikeK said:

    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.

    The bombs went off around an hour ago. They may have more pressing concerns right now, and/or they may be following leads, and/or there may be due process issues. Not everything is a plot designed to protect Moslems.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    CNN

    GOP nomination
    Trump 47
    Cruz 31
    Kasich 17

    Dems
    Clinton 51
    Sanders 44


    General election

    Clinton 53
    Trump 41

    Clinton 48
    Cruz 48

    Clinton 45
    Kasich 51


    Sanders 58
    Trump 38

    Sanders 55
    Cruz 42

    Sanders 51
    Kasich 45
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.

    Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?

    Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....
    Ah, but I remember our own London bombings when the BBC insisted for more than 2 hours that those explosions on the tube were simply electrical malfunctions.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253

    A question about these awful events in Brussels: would this be a busy time at the airport?

    It would have been at the American Airlines check in desks:

    https://www.american-airlines.nl/i18n/travelInformation/destinationInformation/bru-airport.jsp?locale=en_BE
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    Mortimer said:


    Actuallly, on this budget, I have little sympathy with the rebels despite being a Brexiter.

    We still have a huge deficit to close.

    If the Tory party isn't going to be dry on the money, and drive for a competitive low tax economy, then who is?

    I can' help but think that some of these arguments might be avoided if governments implemented a percentage-per-department scheme: as happens now with DFID and defence, each department's bufget is fixed as a percentage of the previous years GDP.

    Each department then has to cut its cloth accordingly. There will still be arguments about how each department cuts (or expands) its budgets, but there will be less inter-department chaos.

    The voters would also have something tangible to vote on in a GE: each party would say the percentages each department would get for the next parliament.
    Nice idea JJ, but too technocratic and leaving too little wiggle room.

    My plan is for there to be (say) 5 or 10% of discretional spending held by central government. This can be used to plug holes, react to events or (gasp) pay off the debt. That'd be the wriggle room.

    With DFID and defence being ringfenced at 0.7% and 2% respectively, we are heading in this direction already. I can imagine one of the parties saying the same for NHS or education at the next GE.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    RoyalBlue said:

    SO... your reasoning is faulty.. Perception is all..

    The perception being that if we left the EU Moslem fundamentalists would no longer consider us a target for attack? That makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Can you explain?

    Mrs Thatcher said something to the effect that Europe is the source of Britain's problems while America is the source of solutions to those problems.

    That's what he's getting at.

    I don't blame the EU for the fact that religious fanatics attack and kill people in Europe.

  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    MikeK said:

    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.

    The bombs went off around an hour ago. They may have more pressing concerns right now, and/or they may be following leads, and/or there may be due process issues. Not everything is a plot designed to protect Moslems.

    Except when it is. Religion of Peace strikes another peaceful pose.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    SO... your reasoning is faulty.. Perception is all..

    The perception being that if we left the EU Moslem fundamentalists would no longer consider us a target for attack? That makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Can you explain?

    The Paris attacks did not prompt a wave of Europhobia. Indeed they brought a sense of fellow feeling with our continental cousins.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Incidentally, I do write pieces to order, but only with substantially more legal content, under cover of legal privilege and at my usual hourly rate. Otherwise, I please myself.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited March 2016

    MikeK said:

    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.

    The bombs went off around an hour ago. They may have more pressing concerns right now, and/or they may be following leads, and/or there may be due process issues. Not everything is a plot designed to protect Moslems.

    No, but a lot is.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    The Radical Feminist ‏@thirdwavefem 3m3 minutes ago

    Assuming Islam has anything to do with the #Brussels bombing is extremely Islamophobic. Perhaps it was a secular group. We just don't know.


    Times of India Verified account ‏@timesofindia 3m3 minutes ago

    Update | #Brussels airport blasts: Shots were fired & there were shouts in Arabic shortly before the explosions, says Belgian news agency

    Oh


  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.

    Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?

    Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....
    Ah, but I remember our own London bombings when the BBC insisted for more than 2 hours that those explosions on the tube were simply electrical malfunctions.

    Insisted? Really?

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    MikeK said:

    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.

    You do talk bollocks. Whilst counter terrorist police are likely on the scene, the authorities are no doubt more concerned with saving lives and preventing other attacks currently, than releasing news of who may have done it to you.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Observer, Schengen's an integral part of both what first attracted the migrants and why the EU has flailed about hopelessly since.

    Dr. Foxinsox, I felt huge sympathy for the French over their attacks last year. I don't think this sort of thing is relevant to the EU debate either way. We'll co-operate (us and the other EU nations) in anti-terrorism whether the UK's in or out.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,728

    SO... your reasoning is faulty.. Perception is all..

    The perception being that if we left the EU Moslem fundamentalists would no longer consider us a target for attack? That makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Can you explain?

    The Paris attacks did not prompt a wave of Europhobia. Indeed they brought a sense of fellow feeling with our continental cousins.
    Indeed. In or Out makes no difference either to our safety from terrorism nor how we view our friends and neighbours who are unfortunate enough to be caught up on it.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    edited March 2016

    Mortimer said:

    Fundamental misunderstanding of the natural party of government there Alastair.

    Concern with the current leadership is that the 'remain at all costs' will scupper electoral chances.

    Based on what?

    There is no Eurosceptic timeline of electoral success in general elections: quite the reverse. Whenever the Conservatives have defined themselves or been defined by their hostility to the EU, they've been trounced at the polls.
    You say that, but promising a referendum - itself probably the most eurosceptic act since the 90s - was part of a manifesto that secured the first Tory majority since the 90s.

    Think of it this way - euroscepticism is a rising trend amongst the elderly, who are the most likely age group to vote Tory. AB1s are the least likely eurosceptic social group - but are unlikely to be voting for the Tory opposition based on all other factors (not least Corbyn's leadership and apparent vice like grip on the party).

    Again, you likely won't believe me because you've repeatedly demonstrated a failure to appreciate the notion of a sensible Leaver, but I wasn't that bothered by Europe until the recent 'remain because of this stunning deal' spouted by a leadership to whom I have always been loyal and for whom I have knocked on countless doors. The reaction amongst the party faithful to the idiocy of our leadership is indicative not of petty fears about Europe, but real fears that being pro Europe destroys our activist base and endangers a majority.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    HYUFD said:

    CNN

    GOP nomination
    Trump 47
    Cruz 31
    Kasich 17

    Dems
    Clinton 51
    Sanders 44


    General election

    Clinton 53
    Trump 41

    Clinton 48
    Cruz 48

    Clinton 45
    Kasich 51


    Sanders 58
    Trump 38

    Sanders 55
    Cruz 42

    Sanders 51
    Kasich 45

    So the two unpopular bods within the general populace are a mile out in front.

    Funny old world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865

    All very puzzling, yesterday TSE told us that CCHQ was begging him for positive threads, the very next day Meeks pulls one of his many pro Remain threads from the drawer.

    I'm interested to hear what TSE and Meeks hope to gain from such toadying, obsequious behaviour. A job, an audience with Dave, recognition - what is the motive? .

    Maybe they believe what they say and are saying it?

    No side is immune to fear mongering and condescension, but given I think leave has the best arguments it frustrates me they still seem the idea which pulls out conspiracy theories the most, and suggests the other side act out of ulterior motive - see how often a Tory remainers is assumed not to really think that but are concerned about their career only(it happens, I'm sure, mist of them? That's complacent thinking).

    And the idea this site was ever in tune with public opinion is a bit misplaced.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    CBS

    GOP nomination
    Trump 46
    Cruz 26
    Kasich 20


    Dems
    Clinton 50
    Sanders 45


    General election
    Clinton 50
    Trump 40

    Clinton 47
    Cruz 44

    Clinton 43
    Kasich 47


    Sanders 53
    Trump 38
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.

    Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?

    Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....
    Ah, but I remember our own London bombings when the BBC insisted for more than 2 hours that those explosions on the tube were simply electrical malfunctions.
    Was it as long as two hours? The first indications of the problems were electrical malfunctions, as they were detected immediately before survivors could get out.

    This news was broadcast, and it took time in the confusion for the real sad story to get out amidst the chaos.

    It should be noted that you can also get rather dramatic electrical explosions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    john_zims said:

    @richardDodd


    'The Brussels Bombing has just handed another few hundred thousand votes to Leave...'


    So much for the safer IN guff.



    Cross-border terrorism measures are just as important and this is not an event to be pointscoring over
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fundamental misunderstanding of the natural party of government there Alastair.

    Concern with the current leadership is that the 'remain at all costs' will scupper electoral chances.

    Based on what?

    There is no Eurosceptic timeline of electoral success in general elections: quite the reverse. Whenever the Conservatives have defined themselves or been defined by their hostility to the EU, they've been trounced at the polls.
    You say that, but promising a referendum - itself probably the most eurosceptic act since the 90s - was part of a manifesto that secure the first Tory majority since the 90s.

    Think of it this way - euroscepticism is a rising trend amongst the elderly, who are in then the most likely age group to vote Tory. AB1s are the least likely eurosceptic social group - but are unlikely to be voting for the Tory opposition based on all other factors (not least Corbyn's leadership and apparent vice like grip on the party).

    Again, you likely won't believe me because you've repeatedly demonstrated a failure to appreciate the notion of a sensible Leaver, but I wasn't that bothered by Europe until the recent 'remain because of this stunning deal' spouted by a leadership to whom I have always been loyal and for whom I have knocked on countless doors. The reaction amongst the party faithful to the idiocy of our leadership is indicative not of petty fears about Europe, but real fears that being pro Europe destroys our activist base and endangers a majority.
    Idiocy is believing - in the face of a generation of polling and electoral evidence - that campaigning on hostility to the EU is a vote winner for the Conservatives.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @allisonpearson: Brussels, de facto capital of the EU, is also the jihadist capital of Europe. And the Remainers dare to say we're safer in the EU! #Brexit

    That is nauseating.

    It may be, but either way it's not great news for Remain.

    My sense is that anyone who seeks to make political capital from this murderous attack will repel a majority of voters in this country. This is something that could happen anywhere in Europe at any time. And whether we are in and out of the EU makes no difference to that.

    Absolutely right. If anyone in the Leave camp is insane enough to seek to make capital out of the slaughter of innocents they'd rightly be punished by voters.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790

    SO... your reasoning is faulty.. Perception is all..

    The perception being that if we left the EU Moslem fundamentalists would no longer consider us a target for attack? That makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Can you explain?

    The Paris attacks did not prompt a wave of Europhobia. Indeed they brought a sense of fellow feeling with our continental cousins.
    Indeed. In or Out makes no difference either to our safety from terrorism nor how we view our friends and neighbours who are unfortunate enough to be caught up on it.

    Spot on. Thank-you Richard.

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2016
    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.

    Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?

    Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....
    Ah, but I remember our own London bombings when the BBC insisted for more than 2 hours that those explosions on the tube were simply electrical malfunctions.
    They weren't 'insisting', they were passing on what LU were telling them.

    When the bombs went off and destroyed the trains, the traction current surged, and control room staff thought that they had major power problems.

    Nothing to do with a cover up.

    I seem to remember that for weeks you were reporting that UKIP would get 102 MPs. How did that work out again?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Speedy said:

    The main difference between the 90's and now is that the Tories had their credibility destroyed by Black Wednesday, they were on course for defeat before the rebellion over Maastricht.

    There is a parallel there too. They won in 2015 principally because they were seen as the party with a sound grip on economics - Labour was seen as nicer but the Tories would look after the economy. Whether that is still the case, and will continue to be the case, seems incresingly doubtful. And if they lose their reputation for sound management, they don't actually have much else in the eyes of the general public.
    Yes, because the public will leap at the chance to have a PM who looks like a homeless supply teacher.

    Dream on.
    Why is it everyone compares Corbyn to a teacher? I have to dress smartly (my predecessor was sacked because he refused to follow the dress code!) and supply teachers normally have to be even more careful or they're not asked back.

    He looks more like an elderly sixth former, whose ties and top buttons are always a disgrace in my experience.
    Sorry ydoethur, I'm sure you're a model of style and panache :)

    People think teacher because of the poor attempt at being smart; they obviously wouldn't say that if he rocked up in jeans and T-shirt.

    I understand if you can't comment but I'd be interested to know your thoughts on teaching assistants. It's always seemed rather perverse to me to have people in the classroom with no academic qualifications, and I suspect like PCSOs it's a way of massaging unemployment by creating public sector jobs for the unskilled. Were they only rolled out en masse after 1997?
    The government are now creating nursing associates too
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Felix, it's a double-edged sword. Cameron's banged on about our security depending on being in, after all.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Observer, Schengen's an integral part of both what first attracted the migrants and why the EU has flailed about hopelessly since.

    Dr. Foxinsox, I felt huge sympathy for the French over their attacks last year. I don't think this sort of thing is relevant to the EU debate either way. We'll co-operate (us and the other EU nations) in anti-terrorism whether the UK's in or out.

    We are not in Schengen and actually a lot of the terrorism we see in Europe is committed by people who were born and raised here a long time before Schengen came into being. It had absolutely no influence on the attacks that happened in either London or Paris, for example.

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    HYUFD said:

    A letter from a teacher of Osborne's in the Evening Standard yesterday said that while he was good in the classroom he avoided team sports which perhaps explains a few things

    Lol - you know it really doesn't.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    Another explosion reported at the Brussels Metro station.

    Starting to look a little like London 2005. :(
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    The news about the Brussels Bombing is being kept deliberately vague. The authorities are never keen to admit that these explosions are the work of fanatical terrorists. Until, that is, they can no longer keep the news under wraps.

    Or is it possible people simply dont yet know, and are busy attending to casualties, and searching for other devices?

    Too often (Madrid, Norway) have we seen confident early pronouncements upended by facts....
    Ah, but I remember our own London bombings when the BBC insisted for more than 2 hours that those explosions on the tube were simply electrical malfunctions.

    Insisted? Really?

    Yes insisted is the word. They (BBC and Government) didn't want to believe that a terrorist attack on multiple targets, could actually be happening in dear old London. Especially not from muslims.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sky, explosion at Metro station close to EU buildings
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    Sky, explosion at Metro station close to EU buildings

    Another ?
  • Sky, explosion at Metro station close to EU buildings

    Shit
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    SO... your reasoning is faulty.. Perception is all..

    The perception being that if we left the EU Moslem fundamentalists would no longer consider us a target for attack? That makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Can you explain?

    Mrs Thatcher said something to the effect that Europe is the source of Britain's problems while America is the source of solutions to those problems.

    That's what he's getting at.

    I don't blame the EU for the fact that religious fanatics attack and kill people in Europe.

    You might not, but perceptions do matter, and Islamist bombings in the capital of the EU are not going to make people think positively of our membership.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Explosión metro maalbeek https://t.co/9KIEhLMOin
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    If we're being really hard headed and cynical, this could add a few points to Trump...
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