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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories and Lib Dems need to give this money back immedi
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories and Lib Dems need to give this money back immediately
” The Tories and Lib Dems stood accused of ‘robbery’ yesterday after pocketing a £520,000 bequest to the nation left in an elderly spinster’s will.
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"The Attorney General’s Office [...] said: ‘The executors of Miss Edwards’s estate contacted the AGO about her bequest but the Attorney provided no advice.
‘The Treasury Solicitors replied on behalf of the Attorney General’s Office setting out further steps the executors may wish to take to identify the correct recipient of the bequest.
‘It did not, nor could have, advised to whom the bequest should go.’
A Tory party spokesman said: ‘The solicitors for the deceased, acting as the executors, informed the Conservative Party that it was a beneficiary of the will.’
A Lib Dem spokesman said: ‘The Liberal Democrats were notified that the party was a beneficiary of Miss Edwards’s will.’ "
(emphasis added)
The money was not destined for Tory coffers or their coalition partners, but should have been nominated for a hospice or similar.
She clearly trusted the government with her money, which most of us (hopefully) would not.
I always used to prefer my favourite gorgeous hunks to be clean-shaven, and I usually find them sexier when they are. But in the case of Daniel Radcliffe (who is currently the most gorgeous man in the world) I prefer him to be stubbly (as he usually is). I think it's because it's a sign of masculinity, and because he's so smooth and beautiful that he is capable of being stubbly without looking scruffy. It may also be partly because he was already very stubbly unusually early when I saw him in "Equus" when he was only 17½. I sometimes think that I have an Orwellian case of "doublethink" in that I prefer some people to be stubbly when they are stubbly, and prefer them to be clean-shaven when they're clean-shaven.
I went without shaving for 19 days in 2006 just to see what it was like. My memory is that it was awkward and itchy for the first few days, but then better.
"Airey Neave wrote "Cecil Parkinson told me that the Whips had heard via J. Selwyn Gummer that Shirley Williams had said the Labour Party had a 'dossier' on Edward Du Cann and his City connections."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23691209
I'm struggling to see how a political party could get it hands on money intended for the State as a donation to spend - surely it is the responsibility of the Executors to pass it HMRC.
A most peculiar story. I remain sceptical - if the Executors have made an error, then the Parties should just hand it back.
I hate to see squabbling over wills at the best of times.
However someone decided to give it to the parties.
I assume that the money was deposited in a crown bank account and then distributed from there ?
Politically awful, and someone made the decision to do so.
"In 2010-11, members of the public gave more than £1 million to the Government, almost all of it left in wills.
Executors of the estates write a cheque made out to “HM Treasury” and it goes into the nation’s coffers. Bequests to individual political parties usually involve a specific clause in a will. "
On an unrelated topic, during 1969-70 I lived in Swiss Cottage and Kilburn, working on Marylebone Road. I used to frequent Classic Cinemas, in particular the ones in Baker Street, Hampstead, and Praed Street Paddington. The Praed Street cinema was an almost untouched theatre from the 1920s. The Hampstead one was a small and comfortable cinema at the bottom of hill, and the Baker Street one was a nice comparatively new though small theatre.
The Beatles Apple boutique on Baker Street was still there.
On googling them this evening, I was somewhat disappointed to find that not a single one is still standing.
YouGov internals - issues affecting Nation:
Economy: 67 (+1)
Immigration: 54 (+4)
Health: 32 (-9)
The immigration shift is mainly among Labour and LibDem voters (+9)
http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/united-kingdom
British Library's wi-fi service blocks 'violent' Hamlet
The final sentence states:
The British Library defended its position, saying that it wanted to protect children visiting the building from content "such as pornography and gambling websites".
* the executors contacted the Attorney General's office
* the office refused to provide any meaningful guidance, then
* the executors spontaneously donated the cash to the parties?
If that is indeed what happened, then it appears to be the executors who are at fault, since they failed to follow the instructions in the will. Seems unlikely though.
The Church of England’s rival to payday loan companies will not be ready to do business for more than ten years, the Archbishop of Canterbury admitted yesterday.
Justin Welby said setting up credit unions to compete with controversial lenders such as Wonga will take ‘major skills and much time’.
His admission amounts to a second climbdown since he promised to ‘compete Wonga out of existence’. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2392433/Wait-Justin-Welbys-Wonga-Archbishop-admits-churchs-rival-loan-company-ready-decade.html
"Tory and Lib Dem sources claimed the executors of Miss Edwards’ will, two West Country solicitors, initially contacted the Government’s Treasury Solicitors department to ask where to send the cash, and that both the Treasury Solicitors and the office of Attorney General Dominic Grieve – a Conservative MP – then ruled it was a ‘party political donation’.
This was flatly contradicted by the Attorney General’s Office, which said: ‘The executors of Miss Edwards’s estate contacted the AGO about her bequest but the Attorney provided no advice.
‘The Treasury Solicitors replied on behalf of the Attorney General’s Office setting out further steps the executors may wish to take to identify the correct recipient of the bequest.
‘It did not, nor could have, advised to whom the bequest should go.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2392343/Grasping-politicians-pocket-spinsters-500-000-legacy-bequeathed-government-spend-think-fit.html#ixzz2bv96dt9U
"Grasping politicians steal spinster's bequest" was always going to be a better story than "Two West Country Solicitors Screw Up".... What ever the facts.....
Within MOE - margin of Edless.
Now they're asking Sir Alistair Graham who knows nothing about it for his inexpert opinion, good grief.
Oh and they haven't asked anyone from the solicitors - in fact they don't know who they are. Well how very impressive.
Tim clearly does; why else would he waste his life posting here so often?
I suspect todays threads will prove that point, I'm expecting at least 100 'Grant Spivs'.
I suspect the decision by the solicitors depends on whether the legacy was:
to "the Government" or to "whoever is in Government" - i.e. are they leaving it to the government or to the bodies that form the government.
That said, this is one of those stories where the facts really don't matter. It just sounds horrible.
It's an interesting headline by the Mail though. Hugely negative in tone - but doesn't actually *accuse* the government of anything inappropriate. I wonder if they are nervous about libel (can you libel a party?)
The Times were the *paper of record* in the past - so not quite sure what's going on or if the study was flawed.
How many of us (the non-lawyers aside) can honestly say we've updated our wills in the last five years, or since a big event in our lives (marriage, birth of a new child etc)?
Off - topic Bimbo Marching Powder
For some reason the two rather stupid young women arrested in Peru for trying to smuggle cocaine is leading the BBC this morning so I thought I'd pass on what I've heard.
Firstly the young women are guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo. They knew what they were doing. The "we were forced to", "they had guns pointed at our head" is the line that their handlers told to say if anything went wrong. So they are guilty and can look forward to seven years (the twenty-five years reported is nonsense) in the Santa Mónica female prison. An unpleasant place to be yet their own responsibility.
So far so clear. Thats what happens when two bimbos carry $1.5 million of cocaine through Peruvian customs.
From what i'm told, the wider context is more complex - and please note this doesnt in anyway excuse the criminality of the two. They are, rather dim, which begs the question why an international drugs cartel would entrust such a large amount of cocaine with two rather intellectually challenged people? The answer appears to be that they were the fall guys. Rather a lot of cocaine goes through the route they were taking, in order to "turn a blind eye" at the airport Peruvian customs are routinely bribed. Here is the bribe. $1.5 million of cocaine, the head of customs gets to strut his stuff (and no doubt pick up a bonus) and the Peruvian government can point to a very public example of its efforts in the "war on drugs" and so convince the Yanquis to continue to give them millions of dollars to order to fight cocaine production, a fight no Peruvian government has any intention of ever joining, but every intention of milking the gullible gringoes for.
So rather like betting - never play for stakes you cant afford and never play with people who have more power and greater knowledge than you.
Interestingly, Tim Finchem, PGA Tour Commissioner, issued a statement that was something of a non-denial denial. There have been rumors for some time of a takeover - sorry merger. The PGA Tour is surging ahead, whereas the European Tour simply has no business vision.
There's one in the Times yesterday about the Tesco Polish workers story - but the chappy is actually a Tesco Beijing employee and he's erm Chinese.
Carry on whining about this - its huuuuuuuuuuuuuge.
"Labour has "played into Tory hands" by failing to defend Gordon Brown's economic record, former Downing Street spin doctor Alastair Campbell has said. Campbell, who was Tony Blair's right-hand man in Number 10, said his party has now "lost the weapon" of a good record on the economy because of Labour's desire to break with the past.
...Writing on his blog, Campbell said Labour must be "more robust in defending the record, including the [Brown]/Darling handling of the global financial crisis". He added: "Labour have played into Tory hands on this, and there needs to be an admission of that, so that even at this late stage, a proper debate and a proper reckoning of the record can be had. The rightwing press and its broadcasting echo chamber will not be easy to turn around on this, and the coalition will scream 'mess we inherited' even louder. But it can and must be done. Britain had 10 good years of growth and prosperity under Labour which is one of the many reasons we won three elections and stopped David Cameron winning a majority..." http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/13/ed-miliband-labour-veterans-alistair-darling-alan-johnson
Whoever would have thought the Mail might spin a story? We must remember this when discussing other pieces from that paper which PB posters may have provided links to.
What a nice and trusting woman the deceased must have been.
The same with the Guardian. And the Independent. And the i. And the Times. And the Telegraph.
All newspapers spin stories to a disgraceful degree.
It does raise an interesting question: if donations are to be capped, will that include bequests in wills?
Greedy politicians in London stitch up a defenceless old lady from the West Country to pocket money that was meant for schools'n'hospitals
There are so many assumptions in that story which can't be verified.
But it will wind up ordinary people. And probably make a few more people in the street buy the Mail.
Accuracy be damned! It's sales that matter!
Tiger yet again failed to feature in a major. Yet he won convincingly the week before.
There are several aspects to this. First his age. He is coming up on 38. On the face of it he is not that old. He has had 4 surgeries on his left knee. It is not, and never will be, 100% again. Snapping that left knee is the key component of his swing on the tee. He has also had Lasik eye surgery at least twice.So his knee and his eyes are older than 38.
There have been whispers for a while that there are some shots Tiger cannot execute dependably any more. First among these is a draw off the tee with his driver. He hit enough hooks last week to show that. Secondly he has a problem (for mainly the same reason) with greens with the flag on the left.
Possibly the biggest factor of all - he has always defined himself by the yardstick of beating Nicklaus' 18 majors. He is basically trying too hard, and also reengineering his swing on the fly all the time. He is putting himself under incredible pressure.
Finally his health. He has had knee, ankle, elbow, back problems. As he ages, these will get worse.
Is he still a good golfer? Absolutely. Does he have it in him to win more majors? Absolutely. But he is no longer the dominant player he was, due to the inconsistency of his game and not least because of the rise of new stars who aren't afraid of him.
For the first time. voices are openly wondering whether he has what it takes to beat Nicklaus' 18 majors. Time will tell.
The scenarios you describe are quite common in countries where one sector of the population wishes to use others for its own purposes.
Press photographs do not depict the two girls are being the most intelligent (probably very hedonistic) and these types of people are chosen are they are often the most credulous, gullible, naive and easily led - in fact they love being led.
Also they would not have "known the ropes" regarding the culture and potential pitfalls of a "foreign" country. They would be easily intimidated by threats of violence/rape to them or their families as such international drugs gangs have associates in many countries. If they had declined the "offer", they could have been trafficked or just sold on as sex slaves.
The "fixing" of the Authorities, at a high level, is common practice in a good proportion of the world and nearer to home that you may wish to believe and is what makes law- enforcement so difficult and conviction at times nigh impossible.
Now might be a good time to revisit this given new BoE Governor Mark Carney's involvement as Bank of Canada Governor from 2008 might mean a more honest debate and appraisal of measures taken under Gordon Brown.
I did them at university and concur. Very vivid.
If you have not done so already you should also try to get your hands on Penguin's old edition of translated Anglo/Saxon poetry. It is well worth reading.
Where my friend is stranded
Frost crusts the cracked cliff face
Grey waves grind the shingle
The mind cannot bear, in such a bleak place
Too much grief.
In politics, perceptions matter, sometimes more than the facts.
And this story gives an almost evil perception to the Tories and the Lib Dems.
The support of the fans has persuaded him to do so.
Liverpool to win the league now
Scottish nationalists must dump their "sterile" case for independence and attack the English “southern cancer” if they want to win next year’s referendum, a former SNP leader has said
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10240802/Former-SNP-leader-tells-Alex-Salmond-Attack-the-English-southern-cancer-to-win-referendum.html
The similarity of the final quotes from both parties suggests a degree of panicked collusion overnight,
Firstly, the job of interpreting the will is the job and responsibility of the executors. In a case of real difficulty they will seek advice from third parties. It appears that they have done this. If this was unsuccessful then it would be normal for the executors to seek the opinion of a specialist barrister both to get an independent view and to protect their own backs. Given the size of the bequest I would be amazed if they did not do this.
Secondly, it is possible for a provision in a will to be so devoid of certainty that it becomes unenforceable. This clause may well fall into that category but this would depend on the advice obtained from the barrister and the assistance provided by precedent, if any. Ultimately this is a decision for the executors. If the condition is meaningless the bequest falls into the residue.
Thirdly, there has been an increasingly aggressive tactic adopted by various charities in seeking money in recent times. They check the probates of wills and if a will contains a provision leaving a bequest to cancer research, for example, these charities will pursue that bequest with the executors and claim it belongs to them. This is a difficult area because there are of course lots of cancer research charities and it can be unclear which one was intended.
This brings me to my final point. I don't know if the political parties seek to do anything similar or in this case it was picked up when the AGO and Treasury was contacted. If they do and sought to bring pressure on the executors to apply the money to them then they may have a problem. If they have simply been passive recipients of the cheques then I really don't see this story having legs. It is, in the latter scenario, simply not their fault or responsibility.
Bloody hilarious though.
Good news for the UK , bad news for Labour.
‘The Treasury Solicitors replied on behalf of the Attorney General’s Office setting out further steps the executors may wish to take to identify the correct recipient of the bequest.
‘It did not, nor could have, advised to whom the bequest should go."
It's quite clear that there must be a paper trail of this exchange. There is two different stories, the documentation will back up one or the other.
IANAL but to me the text of the will granting to it "which ever government is in office" is badly drafted. However I think that it's clear that "government" is the state and not a political party who's members happen to occupy office at the time.
Legally ministers act on behalf of the crown, the ministerial warrant is from the crown. It is Her Majesty's Government, not the conservative or LD parties government.
There is a disparity (as ever) between the Mail's headline and actuality
Person of responsibility/probity - let's call him Bill Executor - approaches you and says "Would you like some dosh, it's all kosher squire" I think you take it. It's not coming from Dodgy Ron's Used Cars or Fat Gareth's Christmas savings Club is it?
http://www.libdemvoice.org/daily-mail-accuses-grasping-politicians-of-pocketing-spinsters-500000-legacy-lets-have-some-facts-first-please-35731.html
The Mail claim "the Daily Mail tracked down a copy of the will".. So why did they not publish a copy of the relevant part of the will?
Also it has been my experience that the Executors write and sign the cheques - if that was done then the responsibility rests with the executors. Often the responsibility of executorship is thrust upon people who do not understand the process and what it entails. Getting probate of what looks to have been a simple will is easy and does not require the use of a lawyer. So it is probable that the executors sought advice and on finding none did what they thought was best.
Unlike some on here, I'm not a party hack so pride does not come into it.
Labour did not cause the global economic meltdown, and did lead the world in responding to it. My point now is that Conservative spin -- or at least, official Conservative spin, if not what we read on pb -- will now be constrained to the actualite by the involvement of HMG's shiny new Governor of the Bank of England. I dare say even now, HMG and Opposition spin doctors are scouring the records for what the then Bank of Canada chief said that was either nice or nasty about Gordon Brown or British involvement in the financial crisis.
Right in that the BBC will undoubtedly run with this during the day, probably with a phone in hosted by Nicky Campbell doing his best impression of an independent concerned citizen.
Wrong that the political parties involved have done anything wrong or immoral.
On balance, I suspect the deceased meant this to go to the government rather than a political party and, given the lack of clarity, the two parties should either return it or donate it to a range of good causes.
Plebgate was a story full of lies and innuendo and Mitchell will be entirely vindicated ultimately, that has not stopped it damaging the tories though and, even though they have done nothing wrong, this has the same potential.
Only an idiot would not welcome these figures as being good for the UK. It makes the current improvement much more secure than it would be if what is still our largest single customer remained in the doldrums. I expect the share of our exports going to the EU to continue to shrink but it is silly not to recognise that they are very significant.
Under Labour the UK helped pull Europe and the World into recession.
The Coalitition is in the vanguard of pulling Europe out of the mess.
As Lib Dem voice observes:
" everyone believes the Daily Mail when it suits them."
well on that we can agree, Mr Brown's claim to manage finances within the cycle wasn't so much a golden rule as an elastic guideline. He never took the tough decision to save for a rainy day as he feared it might damage his chances of being PM.
As for the rest of it's not Laboour's fault well we can ping pong back and forth all day, but suffice to say when the bust did hit Labour had left the nation in no state to face it and the actions you claimed saved us were really actions we should never have needed to take in the first place if the Govt of the day had managed its responsibilties correctly.
Dave: You take money from the Unions
Ed: At least I don't nick money from Old Ladies' wills
Nothing on BBC front page; it's the first story on the Politics page. Surely the least looked at page on bbc.co.uk.
That said, whatever the nitty-gritty, give it back.
In fact and you heard it here first, just watch how Dave finds a way to handle it that completely reclaims the initiative and makes him look like an all-round "good bloke". Nick too, maybe,.
Does anyone believe that the intention of this little old lady was to give money direct to the parties, rather than for the public good?
Which is why its the Tony Blair of newspapers - it rides many horses at the same time.
Lefties always know whats best for people - and that the govt can spend your own money better than you alive or dead.
LibDems said yesterday gift was to “whoever was the party of government of the day”. "Party" not mentioned in will @NickCohen4 @stephentall
@MShapland
Both Parties spoke to Treasury to check if Joan Edwards bequith should go to the Treasury before accepting. important executors clarify