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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB share drops 3 with Opinium and sees its lead down to 7

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    NextNext Posts: 826

    Well done to the probation service in helping this prisoner rehabilitate himself after a stint in prison.

    Chris Huhne has opened a new row over the “revolving door” between Whitehall and business after it emerged he landed a senior job with an energy company within three months of leaving prison.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/10235327/Row-as-disgrace-Chris-Huhne-lands-top-energy-job.html

    Forget wind farms. They should fit a generator to that "revolving door".
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,516
    antifrank said:

    @josiasJessop if there's one policy to gain the EU ecstatic support from the UKIP demographic, then giving caravan owners a hard time is it. My father would probably support capital punishment for caravan owners on the road in daylight hours.

    Indeed. But there's also a large number of (invariably middle-class) caravan owners on the road. Being upper-middle class, we had a static caravan permanently in a walled garden in South Devon for holidays. ;-)

    I'm just wondering what problem the proposed law is trying to solve.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,070
    Mr. Jessop, the EU is a stupid organisation. Would that we had a political Alexander to invade its mighty empire and slaughter its army of bureaucrats.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    GeoffM said:

    SeanT said:

    But it won't be birth certificates that causes Ye Great Rebellyon.

    Agreed, but rather like spousal murder all of the resentments add up slowly - and then it's a tiny thing which finally tips an individual over the edge into UKIPery. Don't underestimate the drip of small things whilst waiting for the big bang event.

    "Really? She killed him just for wiping it on the curtains?"

    Wasn't there a man who murdered his wife for putting his mustard in the wrong place?

    Anyway, yes, I concur, which is why I cited the UK's tea tax on the Yanks which caused the American Revolution. The Americans weren't really that fussed about tea, but it was the final insult, as they saw it, in a catalogue of imperial abuse, which made them go postal.

    Taxes are incendiary, however small. I can see some silly little EU direct tax being the spark that lights the eurosceptic fire, finally.
    From memory, I believe that tea was much more significant than you suggest. A lot of the resentment was about the requirement for goods to be carried on English ships and significant import duties.

    As always, with our American friends, it comes down to money at the end of the day
    Yes, but it wasn't tea as such: it was resentment at imperial taxes and imposts in general, within an insufficiently democratic polity. No taxation without representation.

    It's not hard to see exactly the same thing happening in the virtually anti-democratic EU.
    I don't disagree, but tea was a surprisingly important commodity those days, so don't neglect the specific. It also cut across all classes and interests and specifically riled a wealthy and important interest group (the Bostonian merchants).

    Difficult to think of something that would be a similar trigger - additionally, I think the average person in the street is much more disengaged
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    GeoffM said:

    SeanT said:

    But it won't be birth certificates that causes Ye Great Rebellyon.

    Agreed, but rather like spousal murder all of the resentments add up slowly - and then it's a tiny thing which finally tips an individual over the edge into UKIPery. Don't underestimate the drip of small things whilst waiting for the big bang event.

    "Really? She killed him just for wiping it on the curtains?"

    Wasn't there a man who murdered his wife for putting his mustard in the wrong place?

    Anyway, yes, I concur, which is why I cited the UK's tea tax on the Yanks which caused the American Revolution. The Americans weren't really that fussed about tea, but it was the final insult, as they saw it, in a catalogue of imperial abuse, which made them go postal.

    Taxes are incendiary, however small. I can see some silly little EU direct tax being the spark that lights the eurosceptic fire, finally.
    From memory, I believe that tea was much more significant than you suggest. A lot of the resentment was about the requirement for goods to be carried on English ships and significant import duties.

    As always, with our American friends, it comes down to money at the end of the day
    In Niall Ferguson's 'Empire' book, he argues the trigger was the _reduction_ of tea duty. (Key figures in the US revolution were involved in tea smuggling.)

    "…most people assume [the Boston Tea Party] was a protest against a hike in the tax on tea. In fact the price of tea in question was exceptionally low, since the British government had just given the East India Company a rebate of the much higher duty the tea had incurred on entering Britain. In effect, the tea left Britain duty free and had to pay only the much lower American duty on arriving in Boston. Tea had never been cheaper in New England. The ‘Party’ was organized not by irate consumers but by Boston’s wealthy smugglers, who stood to lose out."

    http://www.swifteconomics.com/2009/04/24/tea-parties-and-the-real-tea-party/
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    MikeK said:

    Anger over plot to put EU flag on all birth certificates

    BRUSSELS bureaucrats faced fresh fury last night after revealing proposals for European Union birth certificates.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/420986/Anger-over-plot-to-put-EU-flag-on-all-birth-certificates

    No worries, it's not compulsory, it's proposed, not mandated, that nations use it if they want to. Another unfounded scare story by sensation-seeking newspapers and kippers. Having said that, we don't want it.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,070
    Mr. Dave, that's a fascinating historical snippet.

    I recall Ferguson did an economic history series a year or two ago, which was also really interesting.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Mr. Dave, that's a fascinating historical snippet.

    I recall Ferguson did an economic history series a year or two ago, which was also really interesting.

    I saw a little gaggle of Morris Dancers wandering around Reading town centre this afternoon. Is there a season for Morris Dancing?

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,070
    Mr. Dave, although morris dancing is a splendid sight at any time of year it is predominantly in the summer that we wave our wiffle sticks and jingle our bells.

    Recent winters have not been conducive to dancing outside.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited August 2013
    Edit: video didn't work
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Evening all and another poll within the current trend. I look forward to seeing the reaction in the polls when the Conservatives announce a manifesto pledge to reduce the size of the House of Commons which the LibDems and Labour thwarted last year.
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    How about reducing the size of the Lords, the only Upper House in the world that's larger than its respective Lower House?
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I doubt if it will make a scrap of difference. Westminster village story.

    Evening all and another poll within the current trend. I look forward to seeing the reaction in the polls when the Conservatives announce a manifesto pledge to reduce the size of the House of Commons which the LibDems and Labour thwarted last year.

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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited August 2013
    Huhne seems to have landed himself a good little number

    http://goo.gl/wX7X4g
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,070
    Mr. T, no spoilers please: are you on season 3 or 4? I'm catching up with 3 now on 5* (Sunday 10pm for those interested).

    I can take or leave a zombie apocalypse, but The Walking Dead is very enjoyable.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    SeanT said:

    Evening all and another poll within the current trend. I look forward to seeing the reaction in the polls when the Conservatives announce a manifesto pledge to reduce the size of the House of Commons which the LibDems and Labour thwarted last year.

    Evenin' Easterross. I'm in Arisaig, after a week on Skye, and I've been asking people, since I arrived, what they intend to vote next year. Overwhelmingly they say they're gonna vote No.

    Is this a Hebridean thing? Do you have data for the geographical spread of No and Yes independence voters? I'm curious, because you've been hinting that a Yes is very possible, yet my feeble one-man straw poll implies No by a distance.

    However perhaps the Western Isles are historically different (I expected them to be some of the most pro-independence) thanks to the religious history, or the midges, or whatever.

    Where is the Yes vote concentrated? Glasgow? The prosperous east coast?

    Genuinely curious.
    Evening Sean and glad you are enjoying our wonderful west coast. Skye is not in the Western Isles politically and there are now probably more people born in England on the island than born on Skye. In the Western Isles itself, there is a strong vein of Yes support as there is around the country. The vote will come down to what happens in the closing weeks of the campaign. The SNP has an incredible habit of pulling rabbits out of a hat. It just needs London based journalists or politicians to make a series of cras comments to sway the swayable.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited August 2013

    How about reducing the size of the Lords, the only Upper House in the world that's larger than its respective Lower House?

    Size is secondary to function, as I frequently need to remind people. If we went back to the revising chamber/hereditaries only model, capping the size of the chamber so that new hereditary lines were only created when an existing line disappeared, then we'd be in a much better position.

    Edit: edited to avoid pedantry

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,070
    Not sure how many episodes (perhaps six) I'm into season 3, but it's been very good so far. I liked two a lot but this season's even better.

    Zombie apocalypse is really overdone as an idea, but there are instances of it being done extremely well. The Walking Dead and The Last Of Us are both fantastic.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Do we get a YouGov poll for tomorrow or are they on holiday for the silly season?
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Sajid Javid MP ✔ @sajidjavid

    Fresh forced marriage warning. Primitive, despicable, unacceptable. If @ risk call Forced Marriage Unit 020 7008 0151 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-236390

    This tory impresses me more and more,anyone else agree ?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,651
    Southcliffe is a pretty good British TV drama, in the grimmest possible way.
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    The Sunday Times editorial says

    Our YouGov poll today shows that Labour, despite having been well-nigh invisible recently, still enjoys an eight-point lead.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,516
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Evening all and another poll within the current trend. I look forward to seeing the reaction in the polls when the Conservatives announce a manifesto pledge to reduce the size of the House of Commons which the LibDems and Labour thwarted last year.



    Where is the Yes vote concentrated? Glasgow? The prosperous east coast?

    Genuinely curious.
    Evening Sean and glad you are enjoying our wonderful west coast. Skye is not in the Western Isles politically and there are now probably more people born in England on the island than born on Skye. In the Western Isles itself, there is a strong vein of Yes support as there is around the country. The vote will come down to what happens in the closing weeks of the campaign. The SNP has an incredible habit of pulling rabbits out of a hat. It just needs London based journalists or politicians to make a series of cras comments to sway the swayable.
    Talking of Skye and the English, I had the most Macdonaldy moment imaginable t'other day.

    I was sitting in Kinloch Lodge, in Sleat, when Lord Macdonald, the 34th clan chief of the Macdonalds, the Macdonald of Macdonald, Macdonald of the isles, walked into his ancestral lodge, hunting home of the Macdonald of Macdonald since the Macdonalds of Sleat built it in about 1600, on ancient land of the Macdonalds.

    I just wish I'd been eating a Big Mac at the time.

    I chatted with the clan chief and his agreeable wife and their accents were pure RP Etonian English. Intriguing.

    I demur with your POV on the referendum. I know you are much better informed than me, but my Tom Knox antennae tell me that No is going to win, by a very considerable canter. There just isn't a hunger for divorce. Scots can't be arsed with the stress, let alone anything else.
    Did he have a farm?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_mol6B9z00
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,081

    Huhne seems to have landed himself a good little number

    http://goo.gl/wX7X4g

    Mr Huhne is everything that is wrong with our political system.

    Meanwhile, is Mr Burnham on manouvres ?
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    4, 7, 8, 4, 8 would be a pretty good week for Labour, recently, nudging the 5-poll average just over 6. But still pretty close.


    YouGov had been remarkably stable at 6 a fortnight before this week.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Rest assured Sean, Godfrey and Claire Macdonald of Macdonald are very much resident locals. Their daughter Isabella runs the business now. Lady Claire is constantly busy with her media work.

    You are correct that many Scots simply are not yet that interested in the Referendum. The worry is that as in 1998, the Unionist side (this time led by Labour, last time by the Tories) will blow things by some London based twit pontificating about how "grateful" we Scots should be to our over generous English neighbours. That sort of line will drive otherwise lukewarm Scots into the Yes camp. I personally think a great many people who are lukewarm unionist could easily be swayed by negative campaigning by the No camp. I hope you are correct.
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    The Sunday Times editorial is quite damning about Dave
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,603
    SeanT Interesting encounter with the Chief of the Macdonald's. On Scottish nationalism, coincidentally Braveheart has just started on C4
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    The Sunday Times editorial is quite damning about Dave

    The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Dave, for lack of a better word, is good. Dave is right, Dave works. Dave clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Dave, in all of his forms; Dave for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Dave, you mark my words, will not only save the Tory Party, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.
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    The Sunday Times have analysed Tory membership figures for Cabinet Ministers.

    And it is pretty grim.

    The worst-affected cabinet member is Pickles, whose Brentwood and Ongar constituency posted a 49.3% fall in membership between 2009 and 2012.

    Villiers, MP for Chipping Barnet, saw her membership numbers plummet 43.9% from 787 in 2009 to 441 in 2012. In the Chingford and Woodford Green constituency of Duncan Smith, numbers fell by 37% between 2009 and 2012.
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    I can see Jeremy Browne becoming very popular amongst conservatives

    Lib Dem minister blasts 'hideous' solar farms (via the Paywall)
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    Mr. Dave, that's a fascinating historical snippet.

    I recall Ferguson did an economic history series a year or two ago, which was also really interesting.

    I saw a little gaggle of Morris Dancers wandering around Reading town centre this afternoon. Is there a season for Morris Dancing?

    Yes, just before the season for shooting Morris Dancers.
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    Mr. Dave, that's a fascinating historical snippet.

    I recall Ferguson did an economic history series a year or two ago, which was also really interesting.

    I saw a little gaggle of Morris Dancers wandering around Reading town centre this afternoon. Is there a season for Morris Dancing?

    Yes, just before the season for shooting Morris Dancers.
    Remember Sir Thomas Beecham's wise words

    "in this life try everything once, except incest and morris dancing"
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    The Sunday Times have analysed Tory membership figures for Cabinet Ministers.

    And it is pretty grim.

    The worst-affected cabinet member is Pickles, whose Brentwood and Ongar constituency posted a 49.3% fall in membership between 2009 and 2012.

    Villiers, MP for Chipping Barnet, saw her membership numbers plummet 43.9% from 787 in 2009 to 441 in 2012. In the Chingford and Woodford Green constituency of Duncan Smith, numbers fell by 37% between 2009 and 2012.

    In Ferdinand Mount's "The New Few" I think he argued that the Cameroons don't care about membership numbers. They think they can win with direct mail and databases.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Members - surely its quality not quantity.

    Delivering leaflets from mobility scooters is inefficient.
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    Ed Miliband plans fourth reshuffle to shake up shadow cabinet

    Ministers to be moved before September party conference amid concern over a lack of dynamism on the Labour front bench

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/10/ed-miliband-fourth-reshuffle-shadow-cabinet?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,096
    edited August 2013
    Tonight's yougov

    Labour 41

    Con 33

    UKIP 10

    LD 9
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    The feelgood factor is filtering through to consumers, with just under a third believing there are signs of recovery, up from 14% in April, according to the latest YouGov poll for The Sunday Times.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,385
    Broken, sleazy Tories on the slide? Or, more simply, nothing much happened this month?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,096
    edited August 2013

    Broken, sleazy Tories on the slide? Or, more simply, nothing much happened this month?

    Well according to the Sunday Times, the narrative is changing.

    They are saying, given the relatively good economic news, why aren't the Tories doing better.

    Edit: The Sunday Times reason is that Dave is a bit crap
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,781
    About seven years ago we had a holiday in the Hebrides, in our campervan.

    I had also recently come across Claire Macdonald and had bought one of her cookery books. So I was determined that we would seek out Kinloch Lodge and if possible both dine and stay there.

    We tracked them down and were able to book a table for dinner but they were full up for accommodation. However they kindly agreed to let us sleep in our van, in their grounds.

    IIRC it was late August and I had backed a horse at decent odds to win a race at the York Ebor meeting, the same day. The horse won nicely, paying for the excellent dinner. With the accommodation being free, it was a very agreeable experience. I may well have reported the whole occasion on these pages at the time.

    Clare Macdonald's recipe for onion tart in walnut and parmesan pastry is a particular favourite of mine and one I have managed to reproduce, to local acclaim, over the intervening years.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,385

    Broken, sleazy Tories on the slide? Or, more simply, nothing much happened this month?

    Well according to the Sunday Times, the narrative is changing.

    They are saying, given the relatively good economic news, why aren't the Tories doing better.

    Edit: The Sunday Times reason is that Dave is a bit crap
    I've never been convinced that economic revival on any plausible scale will do much for the Tories. The indicators are in practice always mixed - this is up, that's down - and the fact that people are actually worse off makes them irritated by too many claims of wonderfulness. The election won't be won on the economy by either side, since people correctly see it as largely a global problem to which neither side has an obviously brilliant solution. The Labour 38ish vote (I think the 41 is an outlier, as was 36) is mainly comprised of people who seriously dislike other aspects of the Government.

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    Tonight's yougov

    Labour 41

    Con 33

    UKIP 10

    LD 9

    YouGov/The Sunil on Sunday:

    Coalition 42
    Labour 41

    OR if you prefer:

    Tory/UKIP 43
    Labour 41
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    tim said:

    Tonight's yougov

    Labour 41

    Con 33

    UKIP 10

    LD 9

    YouGov/The Sunil on Sunday:

    Coalition 42
    Labour 41

    OR if you prefer:

    Tory/UKIP 43
    Labour 41
    Of if you prefer, a Lab Maj of around 90 seats

    tim = King of Wishful Thinking!
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,385
    An interesting, yet tantalisingly rubbish piece by John Simpson, predicting radical change in China, perhaps even competitive elections within 5 years. He bases this on a chap daring to wear a different tie, on a middle-ranking bureaucrat being willing to talk to him (yes, it's a preview of a broadcast of the interview) and saying vaguely pleasant things, on the fact that he got bored during the leader's speech at the same time as he once got bored by a Gorbachev speech (you think I'm kidding? Only marginally - read it and you'll see what I mean), and by a visit to an arty section of Beijing where people don't much care about politics (I was there 3 years ago and it was just the same then). It's one of the most flagrant pieces of broadcasting puffery I've seen. Doesn't mean it's not also right.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/10/china-xi-jinping-opens-door-reform
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    tim said:

    And anyone who believes UKiP will poll 17% in a GE is insane.
    If they poll 10% then David Cameron is the most disastrous politician for the side he supposedly represents since Tony Benn.
    He'll have blown the unloseable election, split the right and driven Tory membership down below 100,000.
    He's second rate but no one is that second rate

    As I said earlier, even as a UKIP member I agree with you. But the Lib Dems below 10% seems far more realistic. I suspect under the right circumstances it may well turn into a close fight between UKIp and the Lib Dems for 3rd place but with both of them below 10%.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    (OT) Today I found out something interesting while reading Charles Moore's Authorized Biography of Margaret Thatcher.

    At Oxford University, Margaret Roberts had an unrequited crush on Neil Findlay, who was the father of Max Findlay, who owns Fenton, who chased the deer across Richmond Park in 2011.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    YouGov

    Well/badly:
    DC: -15 (-17)
    EdM: -36(-41)
    Economy:-44(-48)

    Thinking about the current state of the
    economy, which of the following best reflects
    your view?
    The economy is still getting worse: 25 (43) (August/April)
    The economy has stopped getting worse, but there
    are no signs of any recovery yet: 34 (36)
    The economy is in a bad way, but is starting to
    show signs of recovery: 30 (13)
    The economy is improving and on the way to full
    recovery: 5(1)
    DK: 5 (4)

    Thinking about the government's policies on
    the economy, do you think...
    They have made the economy worse, and made the
    recession last longer than it would have done: 36
    They have helped the economy, and made the
    changes necessary for a recovery to begin: 32
    They haven't really made much difference to the
    economy one way or the other: 23
    DK: 8

    Looking forward to the next election in 2015,
    who would you trust more to run the British
    economy after 2015?
    David Cameron and the Conservatives: 34 (LD; 31; UKIP:45)
    Ed Miliband and Labour: 30 (LD;20; UKIP:7)
    Not sure: 36 (LD: 49; UKIP:48)

    From what you know, do you think exams like A-
    Levels have got harder or easier over the last
    ten years, or have they stayed the same?
    [Only asked to respondents in England and Wales
    n=1692]
    Have got harder: 9
    Easier: 41
    Same: 23
    DK: 27

    Following tougher marking rules introduced
    last year, the number of pupils achieving A
    grades at A-level dropped for the first time in 21
    years.
    Thinking about this, which of these statements
    comes closer to your view?
    [Only asked to respondents in England and Wales
    n=1692]
    It was right to introduce tougher marking rules;
    exams had become too easy meaning the best
    students couldn't stand out: 53
    It was wrong to introduce tougher marking rules; it
    puts current pupils at a disadvantage to previous
    students: 21
    Neither: 10
    DK: 15
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Totally Off Topic.

    I bought a Kindle a few months ago and a Nook e-reader a few weeks ago. Book shops are dead except for second hand ones that sell books which are not available on electronic format.

    If you live in or were brought up in a town that is miles away from a bookshop, it must be liberating that you can get a book almost simultaneously without having to travel or leave your home.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Thanks for your summary.
    Financier said:

    YouGov

    Well/badly:
    DC: -15 (-17)
    EdM: -36(-41)
    Economy:-44(-48)

    Thinking about the current state of the
    economy, which of the following best reflects
    your view?
    The economy is still getting worse: 25 (43) (August/April)
    The economy has stopped getting worse, but there
    are no signs of any recovery yet: 34 (36)
    The economy is in a bad way, but is starting to
    show signs of recovery: 30 (13)
    The economy is improving and on the way to full
    recovery: 5(1)
    DK: 5 (4)

    Thinking about the government's policies on
    the economy, do you think...
    They have made the economy worse, and made the
    recession last longer than it would have done: 36
    They have helped the economy, and made the
    changes necessary for a recovery to begin: 32
    They haven't really made much difference to the
    economy one way or the other: 23
    DK: 8

    Looking forward to the next election in 2015,
    who would you trust more to run the British
    economy after 2015?
    David Cameron and the Conservatives: 34 (LD; 31; UKIP:45)
    Ed Miliband and Labour: 30 (LD;20; UKIP:7)
    Not sure: 36 (LD: 49; UKIP:48)

    From what you know, do you think exams like A-
    Levels have got harder or easier over the last
    ten years, or have they stayed the same?
    [Only asked to respondents in England and Wales
    n=1692]
    Have got harder: 9
    Easier: 41
    Same: 23
    DK: 27

    Following tougher marking rules introduced
    last year, the number of pupils achieving A
    grades at A-level dropped for the first time in 21
    years.
    Thinking about this, which of these statements
    comes closer to your view?
    [Only asked to respondents in England and Wales
    n=1692]
    It was right to introduce tougher marking rules;
    exams had become too easy meaning the best
    students couldn't stand out: 53
    It was wrong to introduce tougher marking rules; it
    puts current pupils at a disadvantage to previous
    students: 21
    Neither: 10
    DK: 15

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    YouGov

    Generally speaking, do you think standards in
    the NHS have got better or worse over the last
    TEN years?
    Better: 20
    Same: 19
    Worse: 54

    Looking forward, do you think we will still have
    an NHS that is free at the point of use in the
    future, or will it be impossible to afford?
    It may become more expensive as people live for
    longer, but it will be possible to keep having an NHS
    that is free at the point of use in the future : 51
    As people live for longer and need more care there
    will probably come a time when we can no longer
    afford a free NHS and need to charge people : 38

    In principle, would you support or oppose
    means testing NHS treatment, so that treatment
    remained free at the point of use for those on
    low incomes, but people with high incomes
    would have to pay for treatment?
    Support: 29
    Oppose: 58

    And in principle, would you support or oppose
    cutting back on the services the NHS offered for
    free, so that some services like IVF treatment
    for infertile couples was no longer available for
    free?
    Support: 47
    Oppose: 37



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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,070
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Labour, you probably know this already but if you like classical history quite a few of them are available for free on e-books, as are books that have otherwise had their copyright expired.

    Price is a matter of great variance, as some books cost the same or even more in e-book form (which both perplexes and annoys me). Mind you, some are very inexpensive. I got my Kindle a couple of years ago now, and though I prefer a physical book to an e-book, expense, convenience and space are all great aspects of the e-reader.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Financier said:


    In principle, would you support or oppose
    means testing NHS treatment, so that treatment
    remained free at the point of use for those on
    low incomes, but people with high incomes
    would have to pay for treatment?
    Support: 29
    Oppose: 58

    I have no idea how I could answer that question meaningfully. I neither support nor oppose means testing because I think everyone should have insurance (or not) and the subject wouldn't arise.

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Tonight's yougov

    Labour 41

    Con 33

    UKIP 10

    LD 9

    YouGov/The Sunil on Sunday:

    Coalition 42
    Labour 41

    OR if you prefer:

    Tory/UKIP 43
    Labour 41
    Isn't this the best Labour figure for some time. Frankly, I don't believe it !
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Financier said:


    And in principle, would you support or oppose
    cutting back on the services the NHS offered for
    free, so that some services like IVF treatment
    for infertile couples was no longer available for
    free?
    Support: 47
    Oppose: 37

    Why ask a (fairly) sensible question and then give an example which will skew the results for those who have a vested interest or sympathy in that particular thing? Why not pick tattoo removal? Why, in fact, skew the result with *any* example?

    The questions in this survey seem odd. I wonder who commissioned it?

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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    @old_labour

    Have you had a look at www.gutenberg.org ?

    42,000 free classic and historic ebook on there if that's your sort of thing. It is mine; I am an avid reader from that site.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    The Sunday Times have analysed Tory membership figures for Cabinet Ministers.

    And it is pretty grim.

    The worst-affected cabinet member is Pickles, whose Brentwood and Ongar constituency posted a 49.3% fall in membership between 2009 and 2012.

    Villiers, MP for Chipping Barnet, saw her membership numbers plummet 43.9% from 787 in 2009 to 441 in 2012. In the Chingford and Woodford Green constituency of Duncan Smith, numbers fell by 37% between 2009 and 2012.

    Broken, barren, sleazy Tories on the slide. Why are the members deserting the party ?
    Are they leaving to join UKIP ? Are they leaving in protest ? Or, are they just dying ?

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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    surbiton said:

    Why are the members deserting the party ?
    Are they leaving to join UKIP ? Are they leaving in protest ? Or, are they just dying ?

    Why should it be anything so complicated? The era of mass membership political parties has just passed into history; like the Roman Empire, like the glorious age of steam, and like all of the music TSE listens to.

    People have got better things to do with their time and money and enthusiasm.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,777
    Just had 2 days at the test. Broad was magnificent yesterday, probably the best bowling I have seen in person. He was incredibly unlucky to only have 4 wickets. Jimmy seriously needs a break and I think Swann has a problem too, he was lightly bowled yesterday and ineffective.

    I think this test was lost on the first day thanks to some remarkably cavalier batting. Durham is a lovely ground but should tests really be given to grounds without lights? Poor light might be England's only hope.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,777
    On topic these polls once again show us that what we political obsessives on here argue about has almost no resonance with the general public at all. Guessing what will influence the Great British Public is frankly a mug's game and Ed's self imposed purdah for a month really is not troubling the majority at all.

    Maybe one thing we could learn from the French?
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    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650
    @Surbiton

    `The worst-affected cabinet member is Pickles, whose Brentwood and Ongar constituency posted a 49.3% fall in membership between 2009 and 2012.`

    I think he ate them
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    surbiton said:

    The Sunday Times have analysed Tory membership figures for Cabinet Ministers.

    And it is pretty grim.

    The worst-affected cabinet member is Pickles, whose Brentwood and Ongar constituency posted a 49.3% fall in membership between 2009 and 2012.

    Villiers, MP for Chipping Barnet, saw her membership numbers plummet 43.9% from 787 in 2009 to 441 in 2012. In the Chingford and Woodford Green constituency of Duncan Smith, numbers fell by 37% between 2009 and 2012.

    Broken, barren, sleazy Tories on the slide. Why are the members deserting the party ?
    Are they leaving to join UKIP ? Are they leaving in protest ? Or, are they just dying ?

    The Conservatives are + 1 in this poll, I thought we had to look at the share not the lead ?

    Camerons summer offensive against UKIP, seems to have reversed the loonies fruitcakes and closet racists into normal discourse.





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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,603
    First, and so far only confirmed, leadership debate in Australia between Abbott and Rudd coming up in less than an hour (6.30pm Aussie time, 9.30am UK time).

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    New thread
This discussion has been closed.