politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » At 10.30 am we’ll find out if the 2nd by-election of the 20
Comments
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It was me yes.isam said:
As someone said yesterday, Francis Urqhart I think, rather ironic for people to howl for someone to be banned for entering our country for saying certain people should be banned from entering his countryIndigo said:
Do you feel proud to live in such a bastion of free speech...CarlottaVance said:Meanwhile the Trump petition is on 57,000 signatures - over +10,000 per hour.....
The same left think that demands we be racist to tackle racism
Embarrassing fools0 -
Last night's thread was a great example of absurd positions on racism to tackle racism.isam said:
As someone said yesterday, Francis Urqhart I think, rather ironic for people to howl for someone to be banned for entering our country for saying certain people should be banned from entering his countryIndigo said:
Do you feel proud to live in such a bastion of free speech...CarlottaVance said:Meanwhile the Trump petition is on 57,000 signatures - over +10,000 per hour.....
The same left think that demands we be racist to tackle racism
Embarrassing fools0 -
@ScottyNational: New Scottish saying : "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, unless we didn't fund the repairs, then we'll take a overcrowded train"0
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Dyson Swarm, given the intermittent signals. Dyson Spheres don't work with known materials, but swarms do.AlastairMeeks said:
Sounds like they're looking for a Dyson sphere:Pulpstar said:http://arxiv.org/abs/1512.02388
Alien hunt !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere0 -
Some big moves to deport 10 000 foreign prisoners early, and extended tagging for British ones [copying Indiana scheme for work/weekend jail] to reduce gaol population. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4636225.ece0
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Interesting fact: Orkney & Shetland was the only constituency where UKIP saved their deposit in 2010 and lost it in 2015.0
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A map showing where people are signing the Trump petition:
http://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=114003CarlottaVance said:Not that it means much, but #TrumpFacts is generating some mirth on Twitter -
-Britain is so radicalised that its most popular TV show is Koran Nation Street
-Britain is so radicalised that the Queen has to wear the Hijab (pic of HMQEII in headscarf....)
Meanwhile the Trump petition is on 57,000 signatures - over +10,000 per hour.....0 -
10,000?Plato_Says said:Some big moves to deport 10 000 foreign prisoners early, and extended tagging for British ones [copying Indiana scheme for work/weekend jail] to reduce gaol population. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4636225.ece
That must be about a tenth of the prison population.0 -
What I don't understand is that it was (as I noted a couple of days ago) the Forth Estuary Transport Authority that maintained the Bridge till earlier this year. And it was a consortium of local authorities (mostly Labour most of the time, IIRC). Not a Scottish Government agency. Is this filtering into the media coverage or am I missing something? (The National did note it yesterday).Theuniondivvie said:
Ball-less, quelle surprise.OchEye said:
I am listening to your transport minister Mackay waffling on Radio Scotland waffling and managing to contradict himself. Consider this, how many people moved to Fife to commute to Edinburgh by the removal of the Tolls, and how many of them voted SNP at the GE and how many of them will vote for them next year? If Fife goes, what about the voters in the Lothians who are covering for the workers, the shop workers, the bar staff etc. whose jobs are at risk due to lack of customers from over the Forth at the supposed busiest month of the year.
As for the SNPbadness, as I have said before here, you ain't seen nothing yet! The media are going with a new story every month to pick off the SNP MP's, MSP's and Councillors. Sturgeon is a prime target and Salmond, previously considered to be Teflon coated is beginning to find things sticking to his coat (funnily enough, thrown underhand by his colleagues in the party).
As for winning the election, I pretty much suspect that there will be a SNP majority based on Glasgow and the South West seats. So no bet. But as a week is a long time in politics, 5 months is even more
Only one SBPbad story a month? Are you sure you live in Scotland?
It must be dispiriting for Yoons after years of glorying in every negative story for the SNP, that the highest aspiration that their own piss poor parties can manage is to come a poor second* to the incompetent, corrupt, divisive, extremist, Zoomer party.
*LDs need not apply obvs.
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IIRC it's about 90k now - so a big slice. Devil in the detail as ever.chestnut said:
10,000?Plato_Says said:Some big moves to deport 10 000 foreign prisoners early, and extended tagging for British ones [copying Indiana scheme for work/weekend jail] to reduce gaol population. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4636225.ece
That must be about a tenth of the prison population.0 -
The current figure for England and Wales is 85,895 but there are also about 7,500 prisoners in Scotland and about 1,500 in Northern Ireland so the UK total is about 95,000.
http://www.howardleague.org/weekly-prison-watch/
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/scotlands-prison-population-seven-year-lowPlato_Says said:IIRC it's about 90k now - so a big slice. Devil in the detail as ever.
chestnut said:
10,000?Plato_Says said:Some big moves to deport 10 000 foreign prisoners early, and extended tagging for British ones [copying Indiana scheme for work/weekend jail] to reduce gaol population. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4636225.ece
That must be about a tenth of the prison population.0 -
A recent breakdown of the top 10 foreign nationalities for prison inmates;
Six of the ten are non-EU.0 -
@C_KAndrews: BREAKING: My understanding is Alistair Carmichael has been cleared by election court. Official announcement at 10.30.0
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That might be irrelevant. I believe the toll money went directly to FETA, not the government. It was supposed to be replaced by a direct grant., although from what I can tell a guarantee of this was not placed in the relevant bill. If not, that was a bit crazy.Carnyx said:
What I don't understand is that it was (as I noted a couple of days ago) the Forth Estuary Transport Authority that maintained the Bridge till earlier this year. And it was a consortium of local authorities (mostly Labour most of the time, IIRC). Not a Scottish Government agency. Is this filtering into the media coverage or am I missing something? (The National did note it yesterday).Theuniondivvie said:
Ball-less, quelle surprise.OchEye said:
I am listening to your transport minister Mackay waffling on Radio Scotland waffling and managing to contradict himself. Consider this, how many people moved to Fife to commute to Edinburgh by the removal of the Tolls, and how many of them voted SNP at the GE and how many of them will vote for them next year? If Fife goes, what about the voters in the Lothians who are covering for the workers, the shop workers, the bar staff etc. whose jobs are at risk due to lack of customers from over the Forth at the supposed busiest month of the year.
As for the SNPbadness, as I have said before here, you ain't seen nothing yet! The media are going with a new story every month to pick off the SNP MP's, MSP's and Councillors. Sturgeon is a prime target and Salmond, previously considered to be Teflon coated is beginning to find things sticking to his coat (funnily enough, thrown underhand by his colleagues in the party).
As for winning the election, I pretty much suspect that there will be a SNP majority based on Glasgow and the South West seats. So no bet. But as a week is a long time in politics, 5 months is even more
Only one SBPbad story a month? Are you sure you live in Scotland?
It must be dispiriting for Yoons after years of glorying in every negative story for the SNP, that the highest aspiration that their own piss poor parties can manage is to come a poor second* to the incompetent, corrupt, divisive, extremist, Zoomer party.
*LDs need not apply obvs.
Removing the tolls was a Scottish government decision. It was up to them to ensure FETA was funded to do the necessary work. If they did not, then they are to blame.0 -
As an Edinburgh resident the closure of the bridge is brilliant. About 50 percent less traffic on the streets and the ones that are left can do thungs like drive safely and use indicators which is a novelty.0
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@ProfChalmers: Is The National depicting Carmichael as a lone hero, fighting robots who are given a chip and told what to think? https://t.co/oAupkepCUg
And if the rumour is right, he's baaaacckkk!!!!!0 -
I know we've got a deal with Jamaican authorities to deport a load of their nationals - I think we're paying about £25m to get rid of them/build a new prison there.
I think it's a great idea - it rids us of the problem, and saves us money.chestnut said:A recent breakdown of the top 10 foreign nationalities for prison inmates;
Six of the ten are non-EU.0 -
It really was.Plato_Says said:Last night's thread was a great example of absurd positions on racism to tackle racism.
isam said:
As someone said yesterday, Francis Urqhart I think, rather ironic for people to howl for someone to be banned for entering our country for saying certain people should be banned from entering his countryIndigo said:
Do you feel proud to live in such a bastion of free speech...CarlottaVance said:Meanwhile the Trump petition is on 57,000 signatures - over +10,000 per hour.....
The same left think that demands we be racist to tackle racism
Embarrassing fools0 -
I read that we don't deport to Poland as they have to increase prison capacity, but that changes in December 2016.
10,000 prison places = £400m a year in costs.0 -
Do you sense any localised political knock-on effects for 2016?Alistair said:As an Edinburgh resident the closure of the bridge is brilliant. About 50 percent less traffic on the streets and the ones that are left can do thungs like drive safely and use indicators which is a novelty.
I was a little surprised Shadsy shortened the SNP in Edinburgh central just yesterday.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/edinburgh-central/winning-party0 -
Will the judiciary rue the day?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I will laugh so hard...Scott_P said:@C_KAndrews: BREAKING: My understanding is Alistair Carmichael has been cleared by election court. Official announcement at 10.30.
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If true, added to Bridgegate and Brent crude going below $40 dollars yesterday, 2015 isn't turning into the best of years for the SNP.Scott_P said:@C_KAndrews: BREAKING: My understanding is Alistair Carmichael has been cleared by election court. Official announcement at 10.30.
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Ah, thanks.JosiasJessop said:
That might be irrelevant. I believe the toll money went directly to FETA, not the government. It was supposed to be replaced by a direct grant., although from what I can tell a guarantee of this was not placed in the relevant bill. If not, that was a bit crazy.Carnyx said:
What I don't understand is that it was (as I noted a couple of days ago) the Forth Estuary Transport Authority that maintained the Bridge till earlier this year. And it was a consortium of local authorities (mostly Labour most of the time, IIRC). Not a Scottish Government agency. Is this filtering into the media coverage or am I missing something? (The National did note it yesterday).Theuniondivvie said:
Ball-less, quelle surprise.OchEye said:
I am listening to your transport minister Mackay waffling on Radio Scotland waffling and managing to contradict himself. Consider this, how many people moved to Fife to commute to Edinburgh by the removal of the Tolls, and how many of them voted SNP at the GE and how many of them will vote for them next year? If Fife goes, what about the voters in the Lothians who are covering for the workers, the shop workers, the bar staff etc. whose jobs are at risk due to lack of customers from over the Forth at the supposed busiest month of the year.
As for the SNPbadness, as I have said before here, you ain't seen nothing yet! The media are going with a new story every month to pick off the SNP MP's, MSP's and Councillors. Sturgeon is a prime target and Salmond, previously considered to be Teflon coated is beginning to find things sticking to his coat (funnily enough, thrown underhand by his colleagues in the party).
As for winning the election, I pretty much suspect that there will be a SNP majority based on Glasgow and the South West seats. So no bet. But as a week is a long time in politics, 5 months is even more
Only one SBPbad story a month? Are you sure you live in Scotland?
It must be dispiriting for Yoons after years of glorying in every negative story for the SNP, that the highest aspiration that their own piss poor parties can manage is to come a poor second* to the incompetent, corrupt, divisive, extremist, Zoomer party.
*LDs need not apply obvs.
Removing the tolls was a Scottish government decision. It was up to them to ensure FETA was funded to do the necessary work. If they did not, then they are to blame.
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I have a child under the age of 2, I sense nothing bu disrupted sleep patterns.Pong said:
Do you sense any localised political knock-on effects for 2016?Alistair said:As an Edinburgh resident the closure of the bridge is brilliant. About 50 percent less traffic on the streets and the ones that are left can do thungs like drive safely and use indicators which is a novelty.
I was a little surprised Shadsy shortened the SNP in Edinburgh central just yesterday.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/edinburgh-central/winning-party0 -
Yes.AlastairMeeks said:
Will the judiciary rue the day?TheScreamingEagles said:
So disappointing, I was really looking forward to the SNP losing the by election0 -
It's funny and the right decision. A double whammy.ThreeQuidder said:
I will laugh so hard...Scott_P said:@C_KAndrews: BREAKING: My understanding is Alistair Carmichael has been cleared by election court. Official announcement at 10.30.
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Good morning all. If this is true, au contraire, every politician will be heaving a sigh of relief. Imagine what would happen if we had legal recourse when politicians tell fibs?AlastairMeeks said:
Will the judiciary rue the day?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Given it was the Unionists who inflicted the trams on Edinburgh, I rather doubt it. Fife is (as any Fifer would chorus) a world apart.Pong said:
Do you sense any localised political knock-on effects for 2016?Alistair said:As an Edinburgh resident the closure of the bridge is brilliant. About 50 percent less traffic on the streets and the ones that are left can do thungs like drive safely and use indicators which is a novelty.
I was a little surprised Shadsy shortened the SNP in Edinburgh central just yesterday.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/edinburgh-central/winning-party0 -
lol.Alistair said:
I have a child under the age of 2, I sense nothing bu disrupted sleep patterns.Pong said:
Do you sense any localised political knock-on effects for 2016?Alistair said:As an Edinburgh resident the closure of the bridge is brilliant. About 50 percent less traffic on the streets and the ones that are left can do thungs like drive safely and use indicators which is a novelty.
I was a little surprised Shadsy shortened the SNP in Edinburgh central just yesterday.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/edinburgh-central/winning-party0 -
In elections where they weren't even standing - it's absurd that it got this far.John_M said:
Good morning all. If this is true, au contraire, every politician will be heaving a sigh of relief. Imagine what would happen if we had legal recourse when politicians tell fibs?AlastairMeeks said:
Will the judiciary rue the day?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
2015 rather good year for SNP in terms of 59 MPsMortimer said:
If true, added to Bridgegate and Brent crude going below $40 dollars yesterday, 2015 isn't turning into the best of years for the SNP.Scott_P said:@C_KAndrews: BREAKING: My understanding is Alistair Carmichael has been cleared by election court. Official announcement at 10.30.
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@heraldscotland: BREAKING: Alistair Carmichael 'cleared by judges after election legal challenge' https://t.co/2y8v3JlYUo https://t.co/csnY8cg2Pr0
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Good morning.
I think the real 'absurd' thing is not an opinion on police-community relations that PB happens to disagree with (one which that known 'Leftie' Theresa May agrees with), but calling Fury's opinions as merely 'not PC'. Quite frankly, if a Muslim had said any of these opinions PBers would be opining about how Islam is incompatible with the Western culture, how abhorrent their attitudes are etc. And why the Left is to blame for immigration xyz, and so on. Tyson Fury essentially is blatantly homophobic. I don't think he should be removed from BBCSPTY. On the contrary, I think it'll be interesting to see how many people are preoccupied with sticking it to the 'Political Correct Lot' or whatever, rather than actually voting for who they think is the Best Sports 'Personality' of the Year. This is essentially what this is about, basically - telling some randoms on the internet to go and do one.
And as for him losing his IBF Title - I had to laugh. Can't say I feel too sorry for him.0 -
Tottenham is absolute bandit country. On a non-matchday evening it is a genuinely scary place - even walking down the High Road. Highgate isn't. But I don't think it has much to do with religion. It's more about wealth.blackburn63 said:Mt chestnut,
Of course Highgate is nothing like Tottenham but the religious diversity in Highgate is vast. The point I made at the time is I have close family in Highgate and as a Spurs fan walking to the car after evening fixtures can be interesting. For making that observation I was called a racist.
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To borrow an oft-used phrase - has Darling got his snout in a better trough than Brown?
http://www.scotsman.com/business/companies/ex-chancellor-alistair-darling-joins-morgan-stanley-board-1-39705720 -
Confident prediction - the Forth Bridge farrago will make not a jot of difference to the SNP's vote. They will win by an absolute landslide next May. They own the Saltire right now. And in an age of identity politics that is what counts.0
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Someone do the necessary photoshopping please:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/95/Terminator-salvation-poster.jpg/220px-Terminator-salvation-poster.jpg0 -
http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/25/1532/Morrison-and-others-v-Alistair-Carmichael-MP-and-another
Place to look in a few minutes I expect ...0 -
If Carmichael is let off the Lib Dems will rue the day. The local backlash could finish off their prospects there for decades. They will have lost the respect of the local communities.0
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Re Prison early release if the lags agree to be deported. I can see the logic to somewhere like Jamaica, as in theory those individuals won't be able to just jump on a plane back through UK customs.
However, for Poland? AFAIK, to stop an EU citizen coming, there has to be extremely special circumstances to stop somebody who has served their time from visiting the UK. What stops any of these early releasers popping on a bus and heading back to the UK?0 -
Britain is so radicalized that Big Ben now calls the population to prayer 5 times a dayCarlottaVance said:Not that it means much, but #TrumpFacts is generating some mirth on Twitter -
-Britain is so radicalised that its most popular TV show is Koran Nation Street
-Britain is so radicalised that the Queen has to wear the Hijab (pic of HMQEII in headscarf....)
Meanwhile the Trump petition is on 57,000 signatures - over +10,000 per hour.....0 -
I'm not going to restart this debate - it was boring enough last night.The_Apocalypse said:Good morning.
I think the real 'absurd' thing is not an opinion on police-community relations that PB happens to disagree with (one which that known 'Leftie' Theresa May agrees with), but calling Fury's opinions as merely 'not PC'. Quite frankly, if a Muslim had said any of these opinions PBers would be opining about how Islam is incompatible with the Western culture, how abhorrent their attitudes are etc. And why the Left is to blame for immigration xyz, and so on. Tyson Fury essentially is blatantly homophobic. I don't think he should be removed from BBCSPTY. On the contrary, I think it'll be interesting to see how many people are preoccupied with sticking it to the 'Political Correct Lot' or whatever, rather than actually voting for who they think is the Best Sports 'Personality' of the Year. This is essentially what this is about, basically - telling some randoms on the internet to go and do one.
And as for him losing his IBF Title - I had to laugh. Can't say I feel too sorry for him.
As with Trump, Fury - silly things to say, but people are allowed to say (most) silly things at will. Anything else would be dangerous and just as narrow minded.0 -
SLAB is dying and their senior folk are filling up their pension funds. loyalty?CarlottaVance said:To borrow an oft-used phrase - has Darling got his snout in a better trough than Brown?
http://www.scotsman.com/business/companies/ex-chancellor-alistair-darling-joins-morgan-stanley-board-1-3970572
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You are probably right. The caveat would be how long the bridge stays shut. If it is not fully reopened to traffic by May...SouthamObserver said:Confident prediction - the Forth Bridge farrago will make not a jot of difference to the SNP's vote. They will win by an absolute landslide next May. They own the Saltire right now. And in an age of identity politics that is what counts.
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Who would you rather employ? Darling or Brown? It seems the private sector big whigs are quite clear on this...and Brown getting any job. I presume it is just pure coincidence that Eddy Spheriods brother is a big whig at Pimco?TCPoliticalBetting said:
SLAB is dying and their senior folk are filling up their pension funds. loyalty?CarlottaVance said:To borrow an oft-used phrase - has Darling got his snout in a better trough than Brown?
http://www.scotsman.com/business/companies/ex-chancellor-alistair-darling-joins-morgan-stanley-board-1-39705720 -
You may be right but it provides an opportunity for opposition parties to make their mark. Is Ruth up to that challenge? If she is then she could turn the Conservatives into the main rival of the SNP.SouthamObserver said:Confident prediction - the Forth Bridge farrago will make not a jot of difference to the SNP's vote. They will win by an absolute landslide next May. They own the Saltire right now. And in an age of identity politics that is what counts.
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@euanmccolm: the analysis begins. https://t.co/vK7w6W8eRQ0
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It was indirectly mentioned on this thread, that's why I brought it up.Mortimer said:
I'm not going to restart this debate - it was boring enough last night.The_Apocalypse said:Good morning.
I think the real 'absurd' thing is not an opinion on police-community relations that PB happens to disagree with (one which that known 'Leftie' Theresa May agrees with), but calling Fury's opinions as merely 'not PC'. Quite frankly, if a Muslim had said any of these opinions PBers would be opining about how Islam is incompatible with the Western culture, how abhorrent their attitudes are etc. And why the Left is to blame for immigration xyz, and so on. Tyson Fury essentially is blatantly homophobic. I don't think he should be removed from BBCSPTY. On the contrary, I think it'll be interesting to see how many people are preoccupied with sticking it to the 'Political Correct Lot' or whatever, rather than actually voting for who they think is the Best Sports 'Personality' of the Year. This is essentially what this is about, basically - telling some randoms on the internet to go and do one.
And as for him losing his IBF Title - I had to laugh. Can't say I feel too sorry for him.
As with Trump, Fury - silly things to say, but people are allowed to say (most) silly things at will. Anything else would be dangerous and just as narrow minded.
Fury can say what he likes, but his right to freedom speech doesn't mean others don't have a right to criticise him. Trump was also being blatantly racist yesterday, and displayed some incredibly worrying attitudes. These are more that just 'odd' opinions, but ones' which express bigotry.0 -
Employ? Answer neither, but if a forced choice then Darling.FrancisUrquhart said:
Who would you rather employ? Darling or Brown? It seems the private sector big whigs are quite clear on this...and Brown getting any job. I presume it is just pure coincidence that Eddy Spheriods brother is a big whig at Pimco?TCPoliticalBetting said:
SLAB is dying and their senior folk are filling up their pension funds. loyalty?CarlottaVance said:To borrow an oft-used phrase - has Darling got his snout in a better trough than Brown?
http://www.scotsman.com/business/companies/ex-chancellor-alistair-darling-joins-morgan-stanley-board-1-3970572
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That's interesting - very strong from someone with your perspective. My sense is more that the local establishment (which was heavily LD in the sense that Glasgow used to be heavily Labour) was losing control anyway (as the header shows) and that the Carmichael affair would be enough to shift the balance electorally, but that the LDs would remain strong for some time, much as Labour in Glasgow. It'll be the Scottish Parliament election which gives an indication, and especially (in 2017) the local authority one.TCPoliticalBetting said:If Carmichael is let off the Lib Dems will rue the day. The local backlash could finish off their prospects there for decades. They will have lost the respect of the local communities.
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@andrewpicken1: If #carmichael is cleared then petitioners have to pay all costs, hundreds of thousands of pounds all in.0
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This is fun!Scott_P said:@heraldscotland: BREAKING: Alistair Carmichael 'cleared by judges after election legal challenge' https://t.co/2y8v3JlYUo https://t.co/csnY8cg2Pr
The Zoomers on Twitter are going 'Bet the Judge was a Tory'
Er, no, one of the Judges used to be SNP....0 -
IIRC the legislation was supposed to ban preachers who deliberately incite messages of hate and call for action.isam said:
As someone said yesterday, Francis Urqhart I think, rather ironic for people to howl for someone to be banned for entering our country for saying certain people should be banned from entering his countryIndigo said:
Do you feel proud to live in such a bastion of free speech...CarlottaVance said:Meanwhile the Trump petition is on 57,000 signatures - over +10,000 per hour.....
The same left think that demands we be racist to tackle racism
Embarrassing fools
Interpretation of this now seems to have been broadened to anyone who has publicly uttered what those who shout the loudest consider to be an offensive opinion.0 -
Well, that’s just ruined all the fun.Scott_P said:@heraldscotland: BREAKING: Alistair Carmichael 'cleared by judges after election legal challenge' https://t.co/2y8v3JlYUo https://t.co/csnY8cg2Pr
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@MattSingh_: CONFIRMED: #carmichael cleared by election court https://t.co/j7kYNARMGG0
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That is sort of the point of freedom of speech. Criticism is fine providing it isn't 'you are not allowed to say those things'.The_Apocalypse said:
It was indirectly mentioned on this thread, that's why I brought it up.Mortimer said:
I'm not going to restart this debate - it was boring enough last night.The_Apocalypse said:Good morning.
I think the real 'absurd' thing is not an opinion on police-community relations that PB happens to disagree with (one which that known 'Leftie' Theresa May agrees with), but calling Fury's opinions as merely 'not PC'. Quite frankly, if a Muslim had said any of these opinions PBers would be opining about how Islam is incompatible with the Western culture, how abhorrent their attitudes are etc. And why the Left is to blame for immigration xyz, and so on. Tyson Fury essentially is blatantly homophobic. I don't think he should be removed from BBCSPTY. On the contrary, I think it'll be interesting to see how many people are preoccupied with sticking it to the 'Political Correct Lot' or whatever, rather than actually voting for who they think is the Best Sports 'Personality' of the Year. This is essentially what this is about, basically - telling some randoms on the internet to go and do one.
And as for him losing his IBF Title - I had to laugh. Can't say I feel too sorry for him.
As with Trump, Fury - silly things to say, but people are allowed to say (most) silly things at will. Anything else would be dangerous and just as narrow minded.
Fury can say what he likes, but his right to freedom speech doesn't mean others don't have a right to criticise him. Trump was also being blatantly racist yesterday, and displayed some incredibly worrying attitudes. These are more that just 'odd' opinions, but ones' which express bigotry.
The way to counter bigotry is not through closing down the argument, it is through winning the argument on merit.0 -
It's pretty astonishing Labour are 16/1 in Glasgow Kelvin - a constituency which has very Corbyn-friendly demographics.SouthamObserver said:Confident prediction - the Forth Bridge farrago will make not a jot of difference to the SNP's vote. They will win by an absolute landslide next May. They own the Saltire right now. And in an age of identity politics that is what counts.
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56 (54?).bigjohnowls said:
2015 rather good year for SNP in terms of 59 MPsMortimer said:
If true, added to Bridgegate and Brent crude going below $40 dollars yesterday, 2015 isn't turning into the best of years for the SNP.Scott_P said:@C_KAndrews: BREAKING: My understanding is Alistair Carmichael has been cleared by election court. Official announcement at 10.30.
What good are they? Even if they were to ally with labour they would not be able to do anything and indeed their very presence makes further progress for labour difficult.
They have helped destroy the liberal democrats I suppose.0 -
Indeed - and isn't that the point The Economist is making? Back in the 30s the American public was more opposed to letting in a far more sympathetic and - it turned out - much more imperilled demographic.Charles said:
Not context: utterly false and tendentious.SouthamObserver said:Context from the The Economist:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVvp1liUsAEXUVq.jpg:large
Jews were fleeing specific, targetted persecution which - ultimately, albeit not know at the time - led to genocide. Many of the Syrian refugees are fleeing a war in which they are innocent bystanders. Some are economic migrants from Syria and elsewhere using the chaos to achieve their private objectives. A small number have a more malicious intention.
Children are not the same as the profile of refugees being taken from Syria - if we were taking only children I suspect people woud have more sympathy.
This kind of tweet may make the Economist journalists think they are being really really clever. But it doesn't help anyone - not the politicians trying to find a solution, not the refugees who are suffering and not people who are trying to make up their minds in a rational manner on the topic0 -
I wonder if the reason this madness has become de rigeur is the people who push for it are so relentlessly boring, it is more hassle than its worth for those in charge to argue... I know how they feelCasino_Royale said:
IIRC the legislation was supposed to ban preachers who deliberately incite messages of hate and call for action.isam said:
As someone said yesterday, Francis Urqhart I think, rather ironic for people to howl for someone to be banned for entering our country for saying certain people should be banned from entering his countryIndigo said:
Do you feel proud to live in such a bastion of free speech...CarlottaVance said:Meanwhile the Trump petition is on 57,000 signatures - over +10,000 per hour.....
The same left think that demands we be racist to tackle racism
Embarrassing fools
Interpretation of this now seems to have been broadened to anyone who has publicly uttered what those who shout the loudest consider to be an offensive opinion.0 -
@andrewpicken1: Best #carmichael conspiracy theory gets a free night's stay at #IndyCampLive Offer ends today.0
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@MSmithsonPB: So the LDs remain the 2nd largest party in Scotland - alongside LAB & CON0
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Action fails0
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bloody marxist bankers eh ?CarlottaVance said:To borrow an oft-used phrase - has Darling got his snout in a better trough than Brown?
http://www.scotsman.com/business/companies/ex-chancellor-alistair-darling-joins-morgan-stanley-board-1-39705720 -
A good day for democracy - voters should choose their MPs not courts.
0 -
RationaleCarnyx said:
That's interesting - very strong from someone with your perspective. My sense is more that the local establishment (which was heavily LD in the sense that Glasgow used to be heavily Labour) was losing control anyway (as the header shows) and that the Carmichael affair would be enough to shift the balance electorally, but that the LDs would remain strong for some time, much as Labour in Glasgow. It'll be the Scottish Parliament election which gives an indication, and especially (in 2017) the local authority one.TCPoliticalBetting said:If Carmichael is let off the Lib Dems will rue the day. The local backlash could finish off their prospects there for decades. They will have lost the respect of the local communities.
1. A large group of voters will feel aggrieved and want to kick out.
2. The damage is not just to the image of Carmichael but to the brand image of the LDs.
3. The LDs rely on two factors to get elected, the image of their main local person and the image as a "nice trustworthy party".
0 -
Nonsense Nats in Disgrace are Scotlands second largest partyTheScreamingEagles said:@MSmithsonPB: So the LDs remain the 2nd largest party in Scotland - alongside LAB & CON
0 -
Even this has got to endear George Osborne to you, hasn't it?Alanbrooke said:
bloody marxist bankers eh ?CarlottaVance said:To borrow an oft-used phrase - has Darling got his snout in a better trough than Brown?
http://www.scotsman.com/business/companies/ex-chancellor-alistair-darling-joins-morgan-stanley-board-1-3970572
OSBORNE TROLLS SNP BY RULING OUT REFERENDUM AND CALLING THEM ‘NOISY AND AGGRESSIVE BLOCK’
The Chancellor said there would not be a vote for "at least a generation"
http://bit.ly/1NEvTbb0 -
Some interesting research from Guido, getting closer to bring Tom Brake down.
http://order-order.com/2015/12/09/brakes-personal-ties-to-incinerator-firm-revealed/0 -
I know that's the point of freedom of speech. That's why I said it in my response to you.Mortimer said:
That is sort of the point of freedom of speech. Criticism is fine as long as it is 'you are not allowed to say those things'.The_Apocalypse said:
It was indirectly mentioned on this thread, that's why I brought it up.Mortimer said:
I'm not going to restart this debate - it was boring enough last night.The_Apocalypse said:Good morning.
I think the real 'absurd' thing is not an opinion on police-community relations that PB happens to disagree with (one which that known 'Leftie' Theresa May agrees with), but calling Fury's opinions as merely 'not PC'. Quite frankly, if a Muslim had said any of these opinions PBers would be opining about how Islam is incompatible with the Western culture, how abhorrent their attitudes are etc. And why the Left is to blame for immigration xyz, and so on. Tyson Fury essentially is blatantly homophobic. I don't think he should be removed from BBCSPTY. On the contrary, I think it'll be interesting to see how many people are preoccupied with sticking it to the 'Political Correct Lot' or whatever, rather than actually voting for who they think is the Best Sports 'Personality' of the Year. This is essentially what this is about, basically - telling some randoms on the internet to go and do one.
And as for him losing his IBF Title - I had to laugh. Can't say I feel too sorry for him.
As with Trump, Fury - silly things to say, but people are allowed to say (most) silly things at will. Anything else would be dangerous and just as narrow minded.
Fury can say what he likes, but his right to freedom speech doesn't mean others don't have a right to criticise him. Trump was also being blatantly racist yesterday, and displayed some incredibly worrying attitudes. These are more that just 'odd' opinions, but ones' which express bigotry.
The way to counter bigotry is not through closing down the argument, it is through winning the argument on merit.
Criticising Fury is not 'closing down the argument', although I'm not sure what argument there is left to be had. I would have thought we'd reached a point as a society, collectively that Homophobia was wrong, and that most of us had been 'persuaded on this', and over twenty years or so, this is an argument which has been won on merit. That's why many have been critical of Fury's comments.0 -
PCism-by-boredomisam said:
I wonder if the reason this madness has become de rigeur is the people who push for it are so relentlessly boring, it is more hassle than its worth for those in charge to argue... I know how they feelCasino_Royale said:
IIRC the legislation was supposed to ban preachers who deliberately incite messages of hate and call for action.isam said:
As someone said yesterday, Francis Urqhart I think, rather ironic for people to howl for someone to be banned for entering our country for saying certain people should be banned from entering his countryIndigo said:
Do you feel proud to live in such a bastion of free speech...CarlottaVance said:Meanwhile the Trump petition is on 57,000 signatures - over +10,000 per hour.....
The same left think that demands we be racist to tackle racism
Embarrassing fools
Interpretation of this now seems to have been broadened to anyone who has publicly uttered what those who shout the loudest consider to be an offensive opinion.
An interesting argument...
0 -
@MichaelLCrick: Carmichael survives. Lib Dems avoid being octimated (reduced in number by an eighth)0
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Mr. Isam, it's the Might of Eeyore. If you moan incessantly, most people eventually give in.0
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smileyAlanbrooke said:
Nonsense Nats in Disgrace are Scotlands second largest partyTheScreamingEagles said:@MSmithsonPB: So the LDs remain the 2nd largest party in Scotland - alongside LAB & CON
0 -
Its classic, classic - cut back on the replacement, repair or upgrade of infrastructure because it's about to go out of service - of all the attitudes you meet, this is the single one that has caused me the most pain in my professional (IT) career and I never tire of saying so to the continuous stream of managers who propose 'just leave that for the moment'.Sandpit said:
Whoops! Why did they cancel the work? Were they hoping to get the new bridge open before it was needed, or was it that with the removal of the tolls there wasn't the money?TGOHF said:BREAKING: Derek MacKay admits on GMS that the work cancelled in 2010 *would* have replaced the section of #Forthroadbridge that failed.
In this case, the new bridge has been built at fair speed for the UK, precisely because they already knew the old bridge would become untenable within another 10 years, so not maintaining was just asking for trouble.
Let's hope the new bridge opens on time and doesn't have any teething issues - the other issue is often that the old infrastructure that was not being maintained to full standard is still around some time after you expected it gone.
On this one the SNP deserve whatever kicking are coming their way.0 -
The right decision.Scott_P said:@MattSingh_: CONFIRMED: #carmichael cleared by election court https://t.co/j7kYNARMGG
0 -
Very disappointed with the ruling.
Hopefully somewhere else will provide another by-election soon.0 -
NopeTheScreamingEagles said:
Even this has got to endear you to George Osborne, hasn't it?Alanbrooke said:
bloody marxist bankers eh ?CarlottaVance said:To borrow an oft-used phrase - has Darling got his snout in a better trough than Brown?
http://www.scotsman.com/business/companies/ex-chancellor-alistair-darling-joins-morgan-stanley-board-1-3970572
OSBORNE TROLLS SNP BY RULING OUT REFERENDUM AND CALLING THEM ‘NOISY AND AGGRESSIVE BLOCK’
The Chancellor said there would not be a vote for "at least a generation"
http://bit.ly/1NEvTbb
manufacturing having a torrid last quarter ( told you this in October ) and the EEF are on the verge of proclaiming the man a useless twat.
Bad press for him here in the Midlands.
He should be our ambassador to Raqqa bearing gifts of York ham, beer and a copy of the Satanic Verses.0 -
I know that criticising Fury isn't closing down the argument. We were almost in agreement for a second.The_Apocalypse said:
I know that's the point of freedom of speech. That's why I said it in my response to you.Mortimer said:
That is sort of the point of freedom of speech. Criticism is fine as long as it is 'you are not allowed to say those things'.The_Apocalypse said:
It was indirectly mentioned on this thread, that's why I brought it up.Mortimer said:
I'm not going to restart this debate - it was boring enough last night.The_Apocalypse said:Good morning.
I think the real 'absurd' thing is not an opinion on police-community relations that PB happens to disagree with (one which that known 'Leftie' Theresa May agrees with), but calling Fury's opinions as merely 'not PC'. Quite frankly, if a Muslim had said any of these opinions PBers would be opining about how Islam is incompatible with the Western culture, how abhorrent their attitudes are etc. And why the Left is to blame for immigration xyz, and so on. Tyson Fury essentially is blatantly homophobic. I don't think he should be removed from BBCSPTY. On the contrary, I think it'll be interesting to see how many people are preoccupied with sticking it to the 'Political Correct Lot' or whatever, rather than actually voting for who they think is the Best Sports 'Personality' of the Year. This is essentially what this is about, basically - telling some randoms on the internet to go and do one.
And as for him losing his IBF Title - I had to laugh. Can't say I feel too sorry for him.
As with Trump, Fury - silly things to say, but people are allowed to say (most) silly things at will. Anything else would be dangerous and just as narrow minded.
Fury can say what he likes, but his right to freedom speech doesn't mean others don't have a right to criticise him. Trump was also being blatantly racist yesterday, and displayed some incredibly worrying attitudes. These are more that just 'odd' opinions, but ones' which express bigotry.
The way to counter bigotry is not through closing down the argument, it is through winning the argument on merit.
Criticising Fury is not 'closing down the argument', although I'm not sure what argument there is left to be had. I would have thought we'd reached a point as a society, collectively that Homophobia was wrong, and that most of us had been 'persuaded on this', and over twenty years or so, this is an argument which has been won on merit. That's why many have been critical of Fury's comments.
However, I now object to your idea that society arrives on an issue and people should be criticised purely because they're outside of the norms. That smacks a little bit of the idea of thought crime.....0 -
That can be said of anyone of any political persuasion though. I know on PB it's seen as permanently a realm of the Left be but equally the Right are guilty of playing the same record over, and over again. It's just that they agree with the record being played.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Isam, it's the Might of Eeyore. If you moan incessantly, most people eventually give in.
0 -
Is he then 'not guilty' or 'not proven'...?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
@Birdyword: Carmichael was clearly never going to go - he knows too much about the secret oil fields.0
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Free speech means that people should put up with Fury's comments IMO, and we should instead concentrate on trying to stop gay people from being thrown off buildings in Syria and Iraq.The_Apocalypse said:
I know that's the point of freedom of speech. That's why I said it in my response to you.Mortimer said:
That is sort of the point of freedom of speech. Criticism is fine as long as it is 'you are not allowed to say those things'.The_Apocalypse said:
It was indirectly mentioned on this thread, that's why I brought it up.Mortimer said:
I'm not going to restart this debate - it was boring enough last night.The_Apocalypse said:Good morning.
I think the real 'absurd' thing is not an opinion on police-community relations that PB happens to disagree with (one which that known 'Leftie' Theresa May agrees with), but calling Fury's opinions as merely 'not PC'. Quite frankly, if a Muslim had said any of these opinions PBers would be opining about how Islam is incompatible with the Western culture, how abhorrent their attitudes are etc. And why the Left is to blame for immigration xyz, and so on. Tyson Fury essentially is blatantly homophobic. I don't think he should be removed from BBCSPTY. On the contrary, I think it'll be interesting to see how many people are preoccupied with sticking it to the 'Political Correct Lot' or whatever, rather than actually voting for who they think is the Best Sports 'Personality' of the Year. This is essentially what this is about, basically - telling some randoms on the internet to go and do one.
And as for him losing his IBF Title - I had to laugh. Can't say I feel too sorry for him.
As with Trump, Fury - silly things to say, but people are allowed to say (most) silly things at will. Anything else would be dangerous and just as narrow minded.
Fury can say what he likes, but his right to freedom speech doesn't mean others don't have a right to criticise him. Trump was also being blatantly racist yesterday, and displayed some incredibly worrying attitudes. These are more that just 'odd' opinions, but ones' which express bigotry.
The way to counter bigotry is not through closing down the argument, it is through winning the argument on merit.
Criticising Fury is not 'closing down the argument', although I'm not sure what argument there is left to be had. I would have thought we'd reached a point as a society, collectively that Homophobia was wrong, and that most of us had been 'persuaded on this', and over twenty years or so, this is an argument which has been won on merit. That's why many have been critical of Fury's comments.0 -
Let's hope it's Tatton.Pulpstar said:Very disappointed with the ruling.
Hopefully somewhere else will provide another by-election soon.0 -
I'm very disappointed in Alastair, although relieved the action has failed. He wouldn't be on the front bench if it was up to me. He's got to rebuild his reputation in Orkney and Shetland.TCPoliticalBetting said:
RationaleCarnyx said:
That's interesting - very strong from someone with your perspective. My sense is more that the local establishment (which was heavily LD in the sense that Glasgow used to be heavily Labour) was losing control anyway (as the header shows) and that the Carmichael affair would be enough to shift the balance electorally, but that the LDs would remain strong for some time, much as Labour in Glasgow. It'll be the Scottish Parliament election which gives an indication, and especially (in 2017) the local authority one.TCPoliticalBetting said:If Carmichael is let off the Lib Dems will rue the day. The local backlash could finish off their prospects there for decades. They will have lost the respect of the local communities.
1. A large group of voters will feel aggrieved and want to kick out.
2. The damage is not just to the image of Carmichael but to the brand image of the LDs.
3. The LDs rely on two factors to get elected, the image of their main local person and the image as a "nice trustworthy party".
But you're absolutely right - for the Lib Dems to be successful, they have to be the honest outsiders standing up to the big two - and actions such as these totally undermine that. I'm just glad the story hasn't really gained traction nationally.0 -
Doesn't free speech mean that people have a perfect right to criticise his comments?AndyJS said:Free speech means that people should put up with Fury's comments IMO, and we should instead concentrate on trying to stop gay people from being thrown off buildings in Syria and Iraq.
The_Apocalypse said:
I know that's the point of freedom of speech. That's why I said it in my response to you.Mortimer said:
That is sort of the point of freedom of speech. Criticism is fine as long as it is 'you are not allowed to say those things'.The_Apocalypse said:
It was indirectly mentioned on this thread, that's why I brought it up.Mortimer said:
I'm not going to restart this debate - it was boring enough last night.The_Apocalypse said:Good morning.
I think the real 'absurd' thing is not an opinion on police-community relations that PB happens to disagree with (one which that known 'Leftie' Theresa May agrees with), but calling Fury's opinions as merely 'not PC'. Quite frankly, if a Muslim had said any of these opinions PBers would be opining about how Islam is incompatible with the Western culture, how abhorrent their attitudes are etc. And why the Left is to blame for immigration xyz, and so on. Tyson Fury essentially is blatantly homophobic. I don't think he should be removed from BBCSPTY. On the contrary, I think it'll be interesting to see how many people are preoccupied with sticking it to the 'Political Correct Lot' or whatever, rather than actually voting for who they think is the Best Sports 'Personality' of the Year. This is essentially what this is about, basically - telling some randoms on the internet to go and do one.
And as for him losing his IBF Title - I had to laugh. Can't say I feel too sorry for him.
As with Trump, Fury - silly things to say, but people are allowed to say (most) silly things at will. Anything else would be dangerous and just as narrow minded.
Fury can say what he likes, but his right to freedom speech doesn't mean others don't have a right to criticise him. Trump was also being blatantly racist yesterday, and displayed some incredibly worrying attitudes. These are more that just 'odd' opinions, but ones' which express bigotry.
The way to counter bigotry is not through closing down the argument, it is through winning the argument on merit.
Criticising Fury is not 'closing down the argument', although I'm not sure what argument there is left to be had. I would have thought we'd reached a point as a society, collectively that Homophobia was wrong, and that most of us had been 'persuaded on this', and over twenty years or so, this is an argument which has been won on merit. That's why many have been critical of Fury's comments.
0 -
Edit: surely not relevant [unless you are being ironic] in an election petition?flightpath01 said:
Is he then 'not guilty' or 'not proven'...?TheScreamingEagles said:
Actually, the initial statement is more complex than perhaps might be expected. I'm waiting till noon for the full determination.
http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/9/1534/Timothy-Morrison-and-others-v-Alistair-Carmichael-MP-and-Alistair-Buchan0 -
I don't believe people should be criticised purely because their outside norms, but because bigotry is a harmful discourse to many people within society. Criticising people because you believe their attitudes are 'wrong' and harmful is not a thought-crime - plenty of it goes on, on this very site after all.Mortimer said:
I know that criticising Fury isn't closing down the argument. We were almost in agreement for a second.
However, I now object to your idea that society arrives on an issue and people should be criticised purely because they're outside of the norms. That smacks a little bit of the idea of thought crime.....0 -
Well hopefully John McDonnell can hold him to account.Alanbrooke said:
NopeTheScreamingEagles said:
Even this has got to endear you to George Osborne, hasn't it?Alanbrooke said:
bloody marxist bankers eh ?CarlottaVance said:To borrow an oft-used phrase - has Darling got his snout in a better trough than Brown?
http://www.scotsman.com/business/companies/ex-chancellor-alistair-darling-joins-morgan-stanley-board-1-3970572
OSBORNE TROLLS SNP BY RULING OUT REFERENDUM AND CALLING THEM ‘NOISY AND AGGRESSIVE BLOCK’
The Chancellor said there would not be a vote for "at least a generation"
http://bit.ly/1NEvTbb
manufacturing having a torrid last quarter ( told you this in October ) and the EEF are on the verge of proclaiming the man a useless twat.
Bad press for him here in the Midlands.
He should be our ambassador to Raqqa bearing gifts of York ham, beer and a copy of the Satanic Verses.0 -
Ms. Apocalypse, I'd argue there's (usually) a substantive difference, though. The left, generally, has superior command of language both in a positive way (presenting their case) and a negative way (spin). This extends to trying to dictate vocabulary and determine the rules of the debate to their advantage (such as the Blair era playing the race card over questions relating to migration).
I agree Fury's a dickhead. I don't think that means he should be taken off a list for SPOTY. I agree people have the right to criticise him for his views.
I'm perplexed, (well, not really, but saddened) he's had more shit heaped on him than Lord Ahmed got for threatening to summon a horde of 10,000 angry Muslims if Geert Wilders was allowed to show his Fitna[sp] film in Parliament.0 -
Head of British Chambers of Commerce was on R4 Today this morning chucking a bucket of smelly stuff over Osborne.Alanbrooke said:
NopeTheScreamingEagles said:
Even this has got to endear you to George Osborne, hasn't it?Alanbrooke said:
bloody marxist bankers eh ?CarlottaVance said:To borrow an oft-used phrase - has Darling got his snout in a better trough than Brown?
http://www.scotsman.com/business/companies/ex-chancellor-alistair-darling-joins-morgan-stanley-board-1-3970572
OSBORNE TROLLS SNP BY RULING OUT REFERENDUM AND CALLING THEM ‘NOISY AND AGGRESSIVE BLOCK’
The Chancellor said there would not be a vote for "at least a generation"
http://bit.ly/1NEvTbb
manufacturing having a torrid last quarter ( told you this in October ) and the EEF are on the verge of proclaiming the man a useless twat.
Bad press for him here in the Midlands.
He should be our ambassador to Raqqa bearing gifts of York ham, beer and a copy of the Satanic Verses.
Osborne did not need to claim he was re-balancing and having a march of the makers etc etc... Unless if he knew that is what was going to happen.0 -
I can put up with Tyson Fury's comments. He's a fairly dimwitted heavyweight boxer who if past examples are anything to go by will have blown his money and what remain of his braincells in a very few years, so deserves pity rather than hostility.AndyJS said:Free speech means that people should put up with Fury's comments IMO, and we should instead concentrate on trying to stop gay people from being thrown off buildings in Syria and Iraq.
That doesn't mean that I want to see him voted sports personality of the year. We shouldn't be celebrating Neanderthal stupidity.0 -
@JamieRoss7: The people of Shetland prepare to welcome Alistair Carmichael back to the island. https://t.co/qGUGUxI9s10
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0
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It's much easier to shout it down, and win plaudits amongst their peers for doing so, rather than have to think and engage in debate on complex issues.isam said:
I wonder if the reason this madness has become de rigeur is the people who push for it are so relentlessly boring, it is more hassle than its worth for those in charge to argue... I know how they feelCasino_Royale said:
IIRC the legislation was supposed to ban preachers who deliberately incite messages of hate and call for action.isam said:
As someone said yesterday, Francis Urqhart I think, rather ironic for people to howl for someone to be banned for entering our country for saying certain people should be banned from entering his countryIndigo said:
Do you feel proud to live in such a bastion of free speech...CarlottaVance said:Meanwhile the Trump petition is on 57,000 signatures - over +10,000 per hour.....
The same left think that demands we be racist to tackle racism
Embarrassing fools
Interpretation of this now seems to have been broadened to anyone who has publicly uttered what those who shout the loudest consider to be an offensive opinion.
These petitions are usually narcissistic and about the petitioner/s concerned, and not a serious attempt to solve the underlying issue.0 -
@euanmccolm: 1.4million in costs. https://t.co/2mq6PRDfvV
@Planet_Pedro: . @euanmccolm Paging Mr and Mrs Weir, paging Mr and Mrs Weir ...0
