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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Roger said:

    @Avery

    "If illegal immigrants then the government have every justification in piloting unusual methods of communication."

    This made me laugh out loud! Was it supposed to be funny or are my 'teach yourself Japanese while you do the ironing' CD's colouring everything?



    ろじゃー

    @Roger @Avery

    ロジャーさん、エーベリさん、おはようございます。

    I'm perfectly legal, productive and profitable here, but if similar billboards were going round aimed at illegal 外国人 It wouldn't be giving me a good feeling about my long term future here.

    This is the point the tories have completely jumped the shark and lost any chance of ever gaining my vote in the future (the chance was already slim admittedly, but I did waver a little when cameron was new and shiny).

    Ironically enough this strikes as a particularly un-british activity and really makes me wonder how much the country has gone backwards since I left (you were missing me i know...)
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Why on earth would you have a problem with your future in another country as someone who had played by the rules and entered that country legally? And what is un-British about a perfectly polite poster campaign? I think its you that has jumped the shark here when it comes to this issue.

    Roger said:

    @Avery

    "If illegal immigrants then the government have every justification in piloting unusual methods of communication."

    This made me laugh out loud! Was it supposed to be funny or are my 'teach yourself Japanese while you do the ironing' CD's colouring everything?



    ろじゃー

    @Roger @Avery

    ロジャーさん、エーベリさん、おはようございます。

    I'm perfectly legal, productive and profitable here, but if similar billboards were going round aimed at illegal 外国人 It wouldn't be giving me a good feeling about my long term future here.

    This is the point the tories have completely jumped the shark and lost any chance of ever gaining my vote in the future (the chance was already slim admittedly, but I did waver a little when cameron was new and shiny).

    Ironically enough this strikes as a particularly un-british activity and really makes me wonder how much the country has gone backwards since I left (you were missing me i know...)
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    fitalass said:

    Why on earth would you have a problem with your future in another country as someone who had played by the rules and entered that country legally? And what is un-British about a perfectly polite poster campaign? I think its you that has jumped the shark here when it comes to this issue.

    I don't have a problem with clear and enforced rules on immigration. I do have a problem with campaigns such as this one which clearly have a different target altogether- "kind of bigoted" voters. And I'm not particularly keen for those type of voters to be encouraged in their views.


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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited July 2013

    AveryLP said:


    It rather depends who you believe was the target of the messaging.

    If the targets were illegal immigrants and kippers, we are left with the interesting question: what effect it will have on the voting intentions of those who are not the targets?

    Will ethnic minority voters, small-l liberals and even centrist Conservatives be repelled?

    Where are Lord Ashcroft's subsamples when you need them?

    Tories here and Republicans in the USA wail every 4/5 years why do the ethnic minorities [ hispanics ] not vote for them when they are the party of "family values" ?

    Well, because EM's and Hispanics remember these episodes. They do not easily forget who was "targeting" them in the intervening years. Whether it was by means of a van billboard, or an electrified fence or £3000 visa bonds. It is always targeted at someone's brother or sister or husband or wife or son or daughter.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited July 2013
    Ahh, we are back to that old chestnut whereby any attempt to deal with 'illegal' immigration automatically equates to support and encouragement of 'bigoted voters'. Immediately reaching for terms such as bigot or racist remains a cheap and nasty way to try to shut down genuine debate on this issue. Does this now mean that any Government poster campaign that tries to clamp down on any kind of other 'illegal' behaviour also has a different target other than the criminals breaking the law?

    fitalass said:

    Why on earth would you have a problem with your future in another country as someone who had played by the rules and entered that country legally? And what is un-British about a perfectly polite poster campaign? I think its you that has jumped the shark here when it comes to this issue.

    I don't have a problem with clear and enforced rules on immigration. I do have a problem with campaigns such as this one which clearly have a different target altogether- "kind of bigoted" voters. And I'm not particularly keen for those type of voters to be encouraged in their views.


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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    fitalass said:

    Ahh, we are back to that old chestnut whereby any attempt to deal with 'illegal' immigration automatically equates to support and encouragement of 'bigoted voters'.

    it is transparently not an attempt to deal with illegal immigration. it's a political campaign tool.

    fitalass said:


    Immediately reaching for terms such as bigot or racist remains a cheap and nasty way to try to shut down genuine debate on this issue. Does this now mean that any Government poster campaign that tries to clamp down on any kind of other 'illegal' behaviour also has a different target other than the criminals breaking the law?

    I was quoting Gordon Brown's off mic comment, hence my inverted commas.

    I'm not trying to shut down debate. I'm trying to have a debate. I'm giving you my opinion, as a legal immigrant that if I found a similar campaign in my adopted country, i would find it hostile, and encouraging to hostile elements in society here. I don't think this would be particularly good news for the country's economy, as productive people may well be encouraged to settle elsewhere.

    These kind of made up on the back of a (plainy packaged?) fag packet half-baked ideas are more than likely counter-productive. It wasn't so long ago cameron and hague were on a charm offensive in india talking trade, and now its all about charging indians and others bond money to come into the country.

    I'd also guess a poster campaign is not particularly effective in clamping down on illegal behaviour unless it's part of a wider plan of action. No evidence of that here, as far as I know.


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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited July 2013
    The points I raised in my last post are quite clearly backed up in your response in this post. Your simple projecting your own prejudices onto others here in a rather sweeping and negative way.

    fitalass said:

    Ahh, we are back to that old chestnut whereby any attempt to deal with 'illegal' immigration automatically equates to support and encouragement of 'bigoted voters'.

    it is transparently not an attempt to deal with illegal immigration. it's a political campaign tool.

    fitalass said:


    Immediately reaching for terms such as bigot or racist remains a cheap and nasty way to try to shut down genuine debate on this issue. Does this now mean that any Government poster campaign that tries to clamp down on any kind of other 'illegal' behaviour also has a different target other than the criminals breaking the law?

    I was quoting Gordon Brown's off mic comment, hence my inverted commas.

    I'm not trying to shut down debate. I'm trying to have a debate. I'm giving you my opinion, as a legal immigrant that if I found a similar campaign in my adopted country, i would find it hostile, and encouraging to hostile elements in society here. I don't think this would be particularly good news for the country's economy, as productive people may well be encouraged to settle elsewhere.

    These kind of made up on the back of a (plainy packaged?) fag packet half-baked ideas are more than likely counter-productive. It wasn't so long ago cameron and hague were on a charm offensive in india talking trade, and now its all about charging indians and others bond money to come into the country.

    I'd also guess a poster campaign is not particularly effective in clamping down on illegal behaviour unless it's part of a wider plan of action. No evidence of that here, as far as I know.


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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    edited July 2013
    fitalass said:

    The points I raised in my last post are quite clearly backed up in your response in this post. Your simple projecting your own prejudices onto others here in a rather sweeping and negative way.

    which prejudices am I projecting and onto whom?

    Cameron? I don't think he's a bigot or a racist. I think he's weak and ill-advised.

    I'm sorry if I've offended you personally- that certainly wasn't my intention

    (edited to sort out the quoting)
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Latest YouGov / The Sun results 29th July - Con 33%, Lab 40%, LD 10%, UKIP 12%; APP -29
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    YouGov

    Here is a list of problems facing the country.
    Could you say for each of them which political
    party you think would handle the problem best?

    National Health Service
    Cons: 26(+2); Lab:36(+2)

    Asylum & immigration
    Cons:29(0); Lab: 17(-1)

    Law and Order
    Cons: 35(+5); Lab: 21(-2)

    Education & schools
    Cons:26(+1); Lab: 30(0)

    Taxation
    Cons: 29(+1); Lab: 26(0)

    Unemployment
    Cons: 26(+2); Lab: 32(+2)

    Economy
    Cons; 31(+1); Lab: 24(-1)

    Europe
    Cons: 24(+4); Lab: 19(0)
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited July 2013
    Obama's lesson for Cameron and Miliband by Peter Kellner

    The President likened America’s economy to a car that his predecessors had driven into a ditch. “I don’t want to give them the keys back,” he said. “They can’t drive”.

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/29/obamas-lesson-cameron-and-miliband/
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    The internals in the latest Yougov still seem to be moving the tories' way, albeit slowly and largely within the MoE.

    On the face of it, it seems somewhat odd to me that a party who are second best on immigration, law and order, taxation, Europe and above all the economy should be sitting at 40% but there we are.

    Labour will no doubt be delighted to get back to 40. The 2010 die hards plus the 2010 Lib Dem transfers coalition apparently remains in place.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Financier said:

    Obama's lesson for Cameron and Miliband by Peter Kellner

    The President likened America’s economy to a car that his predecessors had driven into a ditch. “I don’t want to give them the keys back,” he said. “They can’t drive”.

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/29/obamas-lesson-cameron-and-miliband/

    Giving control of the economy to Miliband and Balls would be like handing out AK 47s to a troop of chimps ;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    Some chewy numbers from YGov and the van poll is surprisingly positive - I thought it'd be less popular. For £10k it certainly got the headlines.

    If just a handful of illegal immigrants choose to leave of their own accord - its paid for itself.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Interesting survey re quality vs staffing rates

    " Researchers asked 2,917 nurses in 46 hospitals in England about activities they believed were essential but were neglected due to lack of time. Eighty-six per cent of nurses said that they had not done necessary tasks in their most recent working day, with an average of four things being missed. Comforting or talking to patients was the most commonly skipped, with 66 per cent of the nurses saying they had not had time to do it.

    Educating patients was next with 52 per cent, followed by planning future care and keeping a proper eye on patients. Seven per cent said that they had missed out pain relief and 11 per cent had not given necessary treatments...Nurses on wards rated safe by their own staff missed an average of 2.4 tasks per shift, rising to 7.8 on units which staff thought were unsafe, her team report in the journal BMJ Quality & Safety.

    Ms Ball said the findings explain why units with fewer staff had higher death rates, as patients were allowed to deteriorate unchecked. “If a nurse looks after eight patients or more, care is being compromised and a patient’s risk of mortality increased. If you get to six patients per nurse you see significant improvement.” http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/news/article3829110.ece

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    Lol - a survey of nurses suggests they have no time to give basic care. I'm stunned! Even funnier the way the media report such rubbish as if it represents the truth. Roll on the next Stafford a few years after pouring money, extra staff and a load of tick sheets at the NHS
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    scampi said:

    Lol - a survey of nurses suggests they have no time to give basic care. I'm stunned! Even funnier the way the media report such rubbish as if it represents the truth. Roll on the next Stafford a few years after pouring money, extra staff and a load of tick sheets at the NHS

    I'm not too bothered about the political grist this provides but I think there is an underlying item that is of interest. These responses seem to indicate that nursing staff regard non patient contact activities (administration?) as more important than basic care. Does this suggest that priorities have become skewed and we need to reset expectations and KPI's. Management tools need not be a waste of time if applied properly, perhaps by a matron :-)
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    The
    Plato said:

    Interesting survey re quality vs staffing rates

    " Researchers asked 2,917 nurses in 46 hospitals in England about activities they believed were essential but were neglected due to lack of time. Eighty-six per cent of nurses said that they had not done necessary tasks in their most recent working day, with an average of four things being missed. Comforting or talking to patients was the most commonly skipped, with 66 per cent of the nurses saying they had not had time to do it.

    Educating patients was next with 52 per cent, followed by planning future care and keeping a proper eye on patients. Seven per cent said that they had missed out pain relief and 11 per cent had not given necessary treatments...Nurses on wards rated safe by their own staff missed an average of 2.4 tasks per shift, rising to 7.8 on units which staff thought were unsafe, her team report in the journal BMJ Quality & Safety.

    Ms Ball said the findings explain why units with fewer staff had higher death rates, as patients were allowed to deteriorate unchecked. “If a nurse looks after eight patients or more, care is being compromised and a patient’s risk of mortality increased. If you get to six patients per nurse you see significant improvement.” http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/news/article3829110.ece


    Tomorrow a survey of police men to suggest reducing numbers will push up crime rates..

    oh wait!!!
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    NHS in Wales - yet another bad news story http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23495152

    Over £17m has been spent by the Welsh NHS in four years on staff payouts which include confidentiality clauses.

    More than 600 so-called compromise agreements have been signed since 2009, figures obtained by BBC Wales show.

    Ten years ago NHS Wales said the agreements - which can ban ex-employees from talking about their jobs - should only be used rarely.
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Oh gawd. Soubry on Sky talking more patient questionnaires. It's like the worst of New Labour redux.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    Ministers will publish the first results of the Friends and Family test set up by David Cameron, which asks people whether they would recommend the treatment they received.

    Ratings for each hospital ward for in-patients and accident and emergency departments will be published, which should allow patients to shun facilities that are not highly recommended. The scheme, based on the TripAdvisor website for hotels and restaurants, will be extended to maternity wards and other NHS services, including GP surgeries, before the next election.

    It is understood that many NHS wards received “negative” scores, with less than 50 per cent of patients recommending treatment....

    The findings of the tests are based on the views of hundreds of thousands of NHS patients questioned during April, May and June. They will allow people to compare hospitals and individual wards and give a national figure for NHS satisfaction. Patients were asked to respond to one question: “How likely are you to recommend our ward/A&E department to your friends and family if they needed similar care or treatment?”

    Hospitals have been urged to put the results on the doors of wards and the results will be updated monthly...The NHS has previously asked staff whether they would recommend treatment to their friends and families at their place of work. Earlier this year, it emerged that two thirds of doctors and nurses at some hospitals would not make such a recommendation. Nationally, almost 40 per cent of NHS staff would not recommend the treatment available at their hospitals to their friends and family. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10210072/The-wards-to-avoid...-as-decided-by-patients.html
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,993
    Plato said:

    Interesting survey re quality vs staffing rates

    " Researchers asked 2,917 nurses in 46 hospitals in England about activities they believed were essential but were neglected due to lack of time. Eighty-six per cent of nurses said that they had not done necessary tasks in their most recent working day, with an average of four things being missed. Comforting or talking to patients was the most commonly skipped, with 66 per cent of the nurses saying they had not had time to do it.

    Educating patients was next with 52 per cent, followed by planning future care and keeping a proper eye on patients. Seven per cent said that they had missed out pain relief and 11 per cent had not given necessary treatments...Nurses on wards rated safe by their own staff missed an average of 2.4 tasks per shift, rising to 7.8 on units which staff thought were unsafe, her team report in the journal BMJ Quality & Safety.

    Ms Ball said the findings explain why units with fewer staff had higher death rates, as patients were allowed to deteriorate unchecked. “If a nurse looks after eight patients or more, care is being compromised and a patient’s risk of mortality increased. If you get to six patients per nurse you see significant improvement.” http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/news/article3829110.ece

    I wonder how many missed a tea break or lunch
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Carola said:

    Oh gawd. Soubry on Sky talking more patient questionnaires. It's like the worst of New Labour redux.

    She's mostly dreadful. It's depressing, but of all the currently selected and likely candidates for Broxtowe there isn't a single one of them I'd want as my MP. It's a real NOTA constituency.

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    O/T From Twitter. A response to the 'illegals go home' mobile billboard van. NSFW for language.
    https://twitter.com/monkees1/status/361942164546129921/photo/1
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Carola said:

    Oh gawd. Soubry on Sky talking more patient questionnaires. It's like the worst of New Labour redux.

    Why?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,993
    Blue_rog said:

    scampi said:

    Lol - a survey of nurses suggests they have no time to give basic care. I'm stunned! Even funnier the way the media report such rubbish as if it represents the truth. Roll on the next Stafford a few years after pouring money, extra staff and a load of tick sheets at the NHS

    I'm not too bothered about the political grist this provides but I think there is an underlying item that is of interest. These responses seem to indicate that nursing staff regard non patient contact activities (administration?) as more important than basic care. Does this suggest that priorities have become skewed and we need to reset expectations and KPI's. Management tools need not be a waste of time if applied properly, perhaps by a matron :-)
    Just means the wrong type of people are becoming nurses , just because they pass exams does not mean they will make good nurses.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    malcolmg said:

    I wonder how many missed a tea break or lunch

    Or a cigarette "break". Indeed.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    GeoffM said:

    Carola said:

    Oh gawd. Soubry on Sky talking more patient questionnaires. It's like the worst of New Labour redux.

    She's mostly dreadful. It's depressing, but of all the currently selected and likely candidates for Broxtowe there isn't a single one of them I'd want as my MP. It's a real NOTA constituency.

    I'm in two minds about Ms Soubry - she's a very effective communicator [given her TV background that's not surprising] but I don't agree with her nannying views at all. Perhaps if she was in another dept she'd be better - as it is, she's making finger-wagging her personal mantra.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Pleased to see this - been a oligopoly for far too long.

    "Britain’s biggest IT companies are being warned to expect to lose billions of pounds worth of Whitehall contracts as part of an aggressive renegotiation. Officials have identified more than 100 deals that they want to scrap, with the work reassigned to in-house teams or cheaper businesses. More than half of all IT contracts are, in any case, up for renewal over the next two years.

    Stephen Kelly, the Government’s chief operating officer, has put on notice the small group [7 have 80% of the contracts] of existing providers which, until now, has dominated government IT business. “Our message to the oligopolies is: ‘Change and you can have a long-term future, but if you can’t, then tough’,” he said.

    Officials cite a recent case in which a department was quoted £30,000 to change a logo by an outside contractor. The redesign was then done by a single member of the Government Digital Service in about 15 minutes. The Office of Fair Trading is looking at whether IT companies deliberately limit the compatibility of their computer systems to drive up costs and keep out smaller competitors..." http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3829069.ece
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,871
    A survey of bears proves no link to the amount of excrement in the area with trres
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Plato said:

    I'm in two minds about Ms Soubry - she's a very effective communicator [given her TV background that's not surprising] but I don't agree with her nannying views at all. Perhaps if she was in another dept she'd be better - as it is, she's making finger-wagging her personal mantra.

    You've summed up my view of her perfectly. Although I fear her interfering streak would extend to any brief.

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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    @Dugarbandier

    "Ironically enough this strikes as a particularly un-british activity and really makes me wonder how much the country has gone backwards since I left"

    Sending vans round with giant signs saying immigrants go home un British?

    The right wing in this country have a very distinguished history of making immigrants feel welcome .......

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02219/blackshirts_2219047b.jpg
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    Isn't an interfering streak the raison d'etre for entering politics in the first place?
    GeoffM said:

    Plato said:

    I'm in two minds about Ms Soubry - she's a very effective communicator [given her TV background that's not surprising] but I don't agree with her nannying views at all. Perhaps if she was in another dept she'd be better - as it is, she's making finger-wagging her personal mantra.

    You've summed up my view of her perfectly. Although I fear her interfering streak would extend to any brief.

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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    Oh gawd. Soubry on Sky talking more patient questionnaires. It's like the worst of New Labour redux.

    Why?
    As in education - it will be an expensive, pointless exercise telling you what should be bleeding obvious; and the response will probably be more of what created the problem in the first place. More managers (more unbelievably crap managers), greater obsession with data and targets (and fiddling both to avoid the consequences), front line staff further diverted from what the point of their jobs used to be, more front line staff who question the status quo forced out (if there are any left - most have gone in my school...) etc etc etc. We shouldn't have to ask patients or parents (and there's an increasing focus on 'student voice' ffs) if they've had a positive experience or what they think the 'answers' should be. If you can't guarantee the former and don't know the latter then you're in the wrong job.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    @Plato

    "I'm in two minds about Ms Soubry"

    Does that mean you've stopped reporting back to her on NickP's posts?

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I do love a self-righteous Lefty who wants to ban people for being offensive on Twitter. Such as erm Caitlin Moran who is leading the charge against Twitter trolls...

    "Caitlin Moran, for instance, the award-winning feminist journalist, might well fall foul of a new, improved "report abuse" button. She's been quite vociferous in her condemnation of the attacks on Caroline Criado-Perez, even proposing a 24-hour boycott of Twitter to protest about the site's failure to deal with the abuse problem. She appears to have forgotten that, three years ago, she was pretty abusive towards me. Here are a couple of things she tweeted while I was debating Germaine Greer on BBC2's Late Review:

    "God, the reliability of Toby Young to be a total C*** could be used to power the atomic clock."

    "Oh, Germaine Greer. You’re still F***ING MAGNIFICENT. Please end this brilliant monologue by running a sword through Toby Young’s face."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100228634/most-twitter-trolls-are-harmless-attention-seekers-just-block-them-and-move-on/
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Oh gawd. Soubry on Sky talking more patient questionnaires. It's like the worst of New Labour redux.

    Why?
    As in education - it will be an expensive, pointless exercise telling you what should be bleeding obvious; and the response will probably be more of what created the problem in the first place. More managers (more unbelievably crap managers), greater obsession with data and targets (and fiddling both to avoid the consequences), front line staff further diverted from what the point of their jobs used to be, more front line staff who question the status quo forced out (if there are any left - most have gone in my school...) etc etc etc. We shouldn't have to ask patients or parents (and there's an increasing focus on 'student voice' ffs) if they've had a positive experience or what they think the 'answers' should be. If you can't guarantee the former and don't know the latter then you're in the wrong job.
    I'm not sure that's the case. The official stats can only do so much, as has been seen recently, are by necessity delayed, and I think do not cover patient perception.

    The FFT should give much more information, at a granular level, and should also be much more timely. It may be that problems and issues are discovered much more quickly.

    There will be a great deal of noise in the figures, but it may be a useful adjunct to the official figures.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,342
    Trying not to be unfair, but Soubry is a Marmite MP as well as Minister. Conservatives mostly really like her, and so do some from all parties who admire her perceived gutsiness. But a lot of non-aligned people think her too hectoring - generally, she's liked most by the most political people. Whether she has a net positive personal vote we shall see.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    the immigration van is going nationwide....
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I think the FFT is a perfect simple way to capture the patient's experience. It sums up the totality of the care on a subjective level.

    And then its aggregated into a % based on a large sample.

    Given that most NHS staff wouldn't recommend where they worked to their own FFT - this is simply expanding it to include the actual consumer of the service.

    Hardly revolutionary, and long overdue. What is there to be scared of or hostile to?

    Most of us using services like Trip Advisor will look at hotels rated as 1/2/3 stars as being pretty poor and will give credence to those who actually went there rather than remote stats or PR puffery. I can think of several hotels I've stayed at that had an official star rating from say the AA that bore no relationship to it on the day.

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Oh gawd. Soubry on Sky talking more patient questionnaires. It's like the worst of New Labour redux.

    Why?
    As in education - it will be an expensive, pointless exercise telling you what should be bleeding obvious; and the response will probably be more of what created the problem in the first place. More managers (more unbelievably crap managers), greater obsession with data and targets (and fiddling both to avoid the consequences), front line staff further diverted from what the point of their jobs used to be, more front line staff who question the status quo forced out (if there are any left - most have gone in my school...) etc etc etc. We shouldn't have to ask patients or parents (and there's an increasing focus on 'student voice' ffs) if they've had a positive experience or what they think the 'answers' should be. If you can't guarantee the former and don't know the latter then you're in the wrong job.
    I'm not sure that's the case. The official stats can only do so much, as has been seen recently, are by necessity delayed, and I think do not cover patient perception.

    The FFT should give much more information, at a granular level, and should also be much more timely. It may be that problems and issues are discovered much more quickly.

    There will be a great deal of noise in the figures, but it may be a useful adjunct to the official figures.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    TGOHF said:

    the immigration van is going nationwide....

    After the 47% Approval from YGov - HOffice have the thumbs up. I underestimated the approval for it and wouldn't have signed it off myself. I wonder what Mr Farage will be saying about it now?
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Oh gawd. Soubry on Sky talking more patient questionnaires. It's like the worst of New Labour redux.

    Why?
    As in education - it will be an expensive, pointless exercise telling you what should be bleeding obvious; and the response will probably be more of what created the problem in the first place. More managers (more unbelievably crap managers), greater obsession with data and targets (and fiddling both to avoid the consequences), front line staff further diverted from what the point of their jobs used to be, more front line staff who question the status quo forced out (if there are any left - most have gone in my school...) etc etc etc. We shouldn't have to ask patients or parents (and there's an increasing focus on 'student voice' ffs) if they've had a positive experience or what they think the 'answers' should be. If you can't guarantee the former and don't know the latter then you're in the wrong job.
    I'm not sure that's the case. The official stats can only do so much, as has been seen recently, are by necessity delayed, and I think do not cover patient perception.

    The FFT should give much more information, at a granular level, and should also be much more timely. It may be that problems and issues are discovered much more quickly.

    There will be a great deal of noise in the figures, but it may be a useful adjunct to the official figures.
    I've done a patient feedback thing of some description the three times I've been in hospital back to - 200I think it was.

    Really JJ... the time that this sort of thing takes up is insane. There are other issues with it as well - which I'd discuss but I'm off 'up town' to see the Pompeii thing (mixed reviews from friends who've been thus far). Bit dodgy so soon after having my bionic collarbone fitted but I got the tickets weeks ago and it's a sellout-ish.

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    PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 661
    new thread
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Oh gawd. Soubry on Sky talking more patient questionnaires. It's like the worst of New Labour redux.

    Why?
    As in education - it will be an expensive, pointless exercise telling you what should be bleeding obvious; and the response will probably be more of what created the problem in the first place. More managers (more unbelievably crap managers), greater obsession with data and targets (and fiddling both to avoid the consequences), front line staff further diverted from what the point of their jobs used to be, more front line staff who question the status quo forced out (if there are any left - most have gone in my school...) etc etc etc. We shouldn't have to ask patients or parents (and there's an increasing focus on 'student voice' ffs) if they've had a positive experience or what they think the 'answers' should be. If you can't guarantee the former and don't know the latter then you're in the wrong job.
    I'm not sure that's the case. The official stats can only do so much, as has been seen recently, are by necessity delayed, and I think do not cover patient perception.

    The FFT should give much more information, at a granular level, and should also be much more timely. It may be that problems and issues are discovered much more quickly.

    There will be a great deal of noise in the figures, but it may be a useful adjunct to the official figures.
    I've done a patient feedback thing of some description the three times I've been in hospital back to - 200I think it was.

    Really JJ... the time that this sort of thing takes up is insane. There are other issues with it as well - which I'd discuss but I'm off 'up town' to see the Pompeii thing (mixed reviews from friends who've been thus far). Bit dodgy so soon after having my bionic collarbone fitted but I got the tickets weeks ago and it's a sellout-ish.

    Fair enough Carola. It'd be good to hear your views later.

    Oh, and I hope your shoulder's getting better.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited July 2013
    I read an article in a BA inflight magazine where the gist was that even though people might support the death penalty themselves that doesn't translate into voting for someone in favour because people preferred their leaders to be more compassionate than they are.

    Which got me thinking about the Tories new wheeze of sending vans round to tell immigrants to go home. It's not just immigrants illegal immigrants those with dark skins and those with a foreign accent who'll be affronted but really anyone who looks or sounds different to your average Tory Cabinet Minister.

    It's slowly dawning that this version of the Tory Party is no different from the party of the past. The huskies hoodies and windmills was a marketing tool to make them seem 'nice' and it just about swung enough votes to make them electable.

    No one's going to be fooled twice.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,317
    Roger said:

    I read an article in a BA inflight magazine where the gist was that even though people might support the death penalty themselves that doesn't translate into voting for someone in favour because people preferred their leaders to be more compassionate than they are.

    Which got me thinking about the Tories new wheeze of sending vans round to tell immigrants to go home. It's not just immigrants illegal immigrants those with dark skins and those with a foreign accent who'll be affronted but really anyone who looks or sounds different to your average Tory Cabinet Minister.

    It's slowly dawning that this version of the Tory Party is no different from the party of the past. The huskies hoodies and windmills was a marketing tool to make them seem 'nice' and it just about swung enough votes to make them electable.

    No one's going to be fooled twice.

    Actually, Roger, the vans tell Illegal immigrants to go home.
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    mnativesmnatives Posts: 3
    Hi would have whatever effect this campaign might be intended to have on people who are in the country redefine reaching target audiences
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