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I think I've seen pretty much every way that you can end your life, from chemical suicides to jumpers and the one thing I have learned is that it's the people left behind that suffer. Two years ago, a close friend and colleague committed suicide, and we as a group still have difficulty coming to terms with it.
It's not a scientific study, but I've found that if someone is threatening it, in a stand off with the police, then they don't really want to end their life, they just need someone to listen to them, to help them get through their black time.
I have a lot of sympathy for people wrestling with the black dog, but I admit that at 4 am on a frozen December morning, standing by at one of our regular "threateners", waiting for him to sober up and decide he's cold and wants to climb back in off his balcony, the words of Derek and Clive do start to sound in your head.....

Plato_Says said:

Heart rending. I'm totally pro voluntary euthanasia. I promised my mum I'd help her and bugger the consequences. As it was, her hospice doctors did it instead.

Toms said:

Pulpstar said:

Toms said:

Power to the people

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Why is French demand at 60+ GW when we're at 35 GW - I find that a bit surprising.

Dunno.

Further to the discussion I find it really upsetting to see an animal or human in a helpless state.

Yes. I'm also thinking of things like dog fights, bull fights, man fights, torture (mental or physical) & general cruelty. And just mental anguish.

I can imagine that *regulars* get a bit Peter and the Wolf.

Suicide by cop seems quite well documented though, not so much here but it does happen.

My A&E acquaintance would sympathise with your experience.

TwistedFireStopper said:

I think I've seen pretty much every way that you can end your life, from chemical suicides to jumpers and the one thing I have learned is that it's the people left behind that suffer. Two years ago, a close friend and colleague committed suicide, and we as a group still have difficulty coming to terms with it.
It's not a scientific study, but I've found that if someone is threatening it, in a stand off with the police, then they don't really want to end their life, they just need someone to listen to them, to help them get through their black time.
I have a lot of sympathy for people wrestling with the black dog, but I admit that at 4 am on a frozen December morning, standing by at one of our regular "threateners", waiting for him to sober up and decide he's cold and wants to climb back in off his balcony, the words of Derek and Clive do start to sound in your head.....

Anyone seen serious snow yet? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337216/Stay-indoors-Britain-braced-19-INCHES-snow-amid-warnings-gale-force-winds-nearly-foot-rain-weekend.html

@richardDodd PS Looked at Twitter recently? Sent you something.

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

Plato_Says said:

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

They've been watching too much of Johnny English Reborn.

Pulpstar said:

Toms said:

Power to the people

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Why is French demand at 60+ GW when we're at 35 GW - I find that a bit surprising.

French demand will include Interconnect demand to pretty much every country on its border.

Plato_Says said:

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

Plato_Says said:

Anyone seen serious snow yet? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337216/Stay-indoors-Britain-braced-19-INCHES-snow-amid-warnings-gale-force-winds-nearly-foot-rain-weekend.html

All that Mail crap needs an antidote. How about

http://www.the1920snetwork.com/streams/index.html

I'm a huge Clarence Frogman fan. 60s but could be so much earlier - I've all his albums. This is such a fantastically stalkerish song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgFkiI1x4Jg

Toms said:

Plato_Says said:

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

Plato_Says said:

Anyone seen serious snow yet? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337216/Stay-indoors-Britain-braced-19-INCHES-snow-amid-warnings-gale-force-winds-nearly-foot-rain-weekend.html

All that Mail crap needs an antidote. How about

http://www.the1920snetwork.com/streams/index.html

Plato_Says said:

What have you and Heidi had for Thanksgiving?

Tim_B said:

Plato_Says said:

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

They must have read that ball games build team spirit

I had turkey with stuffing, gravy, sweet potato casserole topped with pecans, green bean casserole, peas, followed by apple pie and vanilla ice cream.

Heidi got some extra fuss and a couple of extra biscuits.

Plus as it's Thanksgiving almost 12 hours of football.

Charles said:

Dair said:

JohnLilburne said:

Dair said:

MikeK said:

Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080

So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?

Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.

Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.

[snip]

The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).

The BSI makes about £30 million a year off revenue of close to £300m. Well more than 50% of the revenues come from international markets* meaning that it is a significant export earner, and a part of the brand equity of the UK.

Why, exactly, is it moronic to maintain this?


* 54% of revenues come from EMEA - they don't give a breakdown for the UK specifically although Germany, Spain and the Middle East are cited as important markets

And I can't imagine that agreeing an EU standard actually reduces the time any nation spends (in terms of officials' time at meetings, research etc...) in the process of stand setting over what it would spend in a purely national process. I've had the extremely tedious (and dubious) pleasure of sitting in far too many EU policy meetings. Rather than spreading the load over many nations, it, in my experience, merely duplicates it for many nations and actually makes the process longer in the pursuit of unanimity/consensus.

You're very disciplined. I used to have a wicker laundry basket and filled it with Bonios.

My greyhounds just took one when they fancied it.

Tim_B said:

Plato_Says said:

What have you and Heidi had for Thanksgiving?

Tim_B said:

Plato_Says said:

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

They must have read that ball games build team spirit

Plato_Says said:

What have you and Heidi had for Thanksgiving?

Tim_B said:

Plato_Says said:

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

They must have read that ball games build team spirit

I had turkey with stuffing, gravy, sweet potato casserole topped with pecans, green bean casserole, peas, followed by apple pie and vanilla ice cream.

Heidi got some extra fuss and a couple of extra biscuits.

Plus as it's Thanksgiving almost 12 hours of football.

@Toms Bugger - wrong link!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs4uR0T-fyA

MyBurningEars said:

viewcode said:

Plato_Says said:

Anyone who's seriously intending to kill themselves isn't deterred by shopping for paracetamol over a few days or visiting a few more chemists.

True. But every little helps.

From what I recall, the restrictions on the maximum number of paracetamol available from a chemist has reduced its use in suicides.

Which suggests something about "Anyone who's seriously intending to kill themselves isn't deterred by shopping for paracetamol over a few days or visiting a few more chemists" is not quite right and there's some truth in "every little helps" ... there are people who in the past were sufficiently serious about suicide to actually attempt it, who have been put off by the apparently trivial additional barrier of a few visits to the high street. Curious, but folk aren't logical at the best of times, so perhaps not a surprise they aren't logical at the worst.

I know it has been done with the best of intentions, but it is ludicrous that you cannot buy more than a 10 pack of Lemsip (or equivalent) from tesco.com (other online stores are available)

blackburn63 said:

Plato_Says said:

I intend to legacy my money to The Samaritans who are superb. No censure, no You're Wrong or trying to medicalise it away.

If any PBer needs a listening ear that has no agenda whatsoever - call them. Great for those dealing with the fall out too.

John_M said:

Good evening all. My Father committed suicide when I was 13. I can look back and see how that one act has ramified through our family for over forty years.

I feel sorry for people who are driven to such desperate measures, I wish there were some practical steps we could collectively take to reduce the numbers.

When I read of the £millions spent on Batman and Yentob then look at those selfless people at the Samaritans I despair.

Totally agree.

I used to do that but Heidi got about 15lbs overweight, so now the biscuits are in the pantry and Heidi has to ask for one. She's now about perfect fighting weight, and her annual bloodwork is perfect again.

Plato_Says said:

You're very disciplined. I used to have a wicker laundry basket and filled it with Bonios.

My greyhounds just took one when they fancied it.

Tim_B said:

Plato_Says said:

What have you and Heidi had for Thanksgiving?

Tim_B said:

Plato_Says said:

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

They must have read that ball games build team spirit

Plato_Says said:

What have you and Heidi had for Thanksgiving?

Tim_B said:

Plato_Says said:

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

They must have read that ball games build team spirit

I had turkey with stuffing, gravy, sweet potato casserole topped with pecans, green bean casserole, peas, followed by apple pie and vanilla ice cream.

Heidi got some extra fuss and a couple of extra biscuits.

Plus as it's Thanksgiving almost 12 hours of football.

Tomorrow's Sunday Times front page: Cameron to order killing of Isis leaders https://t.co/Xj09v8azN3

Plato_Says said:

Being seriously serious about ending it all requires more than a trivial restriction. I'm not surprised that Rescue Me unintended fatalities have declined by making binge paracetamol taking less likely.

That's all well and good. But serious planners aren't deterred.

MyBurningEars said:

viewcode said:

Plato_Says said:

Anyone who's seriously intending to kill themselves isn't deterred by shopping for paracetamol over a few days or visiting a few more chemists.

True. But every little helps.

From what I recall, the restrictions on the maximum number of paracetamol available from a chemist has reduced its use in suicides.

Which suggests something about "Anyone who's seriously intending to kill themselves isn't deterred by shopping for paracetamol over a few days or visiting a few more chemists" is not quite right and there's some truth in "every little helps" ... there are people who in the past were sufficiently serious about suicide to actually attempt it, who have been put off by the apparently trivial additional barrier of a few visits to the high street. Curious, but folk aren't logical at the best of times, so perhaps not a surprise they aren't logical at the worst.

A serial suicide-attempter once told me that she couldn't commit suicide with paracetamol because she was allergic to the antidote. So it had to be aspirin.

She was perfectly serious.

Moses_ said:

Plato_Says said:

I wouldn't. I have several friends who've considered it seriously and outside our little band, no one would guess for an instant. It's pride and stoicism and despair all rolled into one.

T

Plato_Says said:

I wouldn't. I have several friends who've considered it seriously and outside our little band, no one would guess for an instant. It's pride and stoicism and despair all rolled into one.

That's what makes it so sad.

Moses_ said:

Re suicide. I moved to a new house not
The next morning I received a call from another friend and x neighbour to say that he had committed suicide in the car in the garage the previous evening. It was really tragic as he had a lovely wife 4 beautiful young children and I still to this day have no idea why? I do though quite often reflect when the subject arises as now and have never got out of my mind that I must have missed something really obvious when I walked by and perhaps , maybe could have prevented it,

Thanks but all the same you think. .....it really was and is a tragic utter waste of a good person and life that will have implications long after for his family.




The one thing that has struck me here tonight is there is perhaps a dozen people posting at the moment and all of us in one form or another have either directly or indirectly experienced a suicide. That really is quite stunning and i wonder quite how prevalent this is in society as a whole and what we could do about it if anything?

EDITING PROBLEMS _ my reply starts below
I was thinking much the same thing.

I have 2 people within my own family who have had suicidal thoughts. Thank god both of them talked about how they were feeling and whilst the NHS were absolutely shite for those sort of issues private health insurance proved invaluable.

I have a friend who walked out of a house following a row with his wife and turned his phone off, when he got home the door was off its hinges as the plice had to break in to get to his wife who had made an attempt on her life / cry for help (I don't want to elaborate on that part). My friend was absolutely destroyed by the guilt of what might have been.

Finally, I had a guy living in the road behind mine. I didn't really know him but saw his 2 young kid splaying on the trampoline in garden and I was aware his wife had died of cancer previously, (but long enough ago that he had a new partner). He threw himself under a train, I actually was caught up in this and was hours late getting home and as I drove home I passed his house and saw 2 police cars outside and did wonder why. Next day all became clear. The kids lost both mum and dad, absolutely heartbreaking.

It must be awful to feel that you have to resort to such ends to get the attention you need.

She was clearly being perfectly rational about the consequences. And didn't really want to die - otherwise being allergic to the antidote would suit her ends entirely.

AnneJGP said:

Plato_Says said:

Being seriously serious about ending it all requires more than a trivial restriction. I'm not surprised that Rescue Me unintended fatalities have declined by making binge paracetamol taking less likely.

That's all well and good. But serious planners aren't deterred.

MyBurningEars said:

viewcode said:

Plato_Says said:

Anyone who's seriously intending to kill themselves isn't deterred by shopping for paracetamol over a few days or visiting a few more chemists.

True. But every little helps.

From what I recall, the restrictions on the maximum number of paracetamol available from a chemist has reduced its use in suicides.

Which suggests something about "Anyone who's seriously intending to kill themselves isn't deterred by shopping for paracetamol over a few days or visiting a few more chemists" is not quite right and there's some truth in "every little helps" ... there are people who in the past were sufficiently serious about suicide to actually attempt it, who have been put off by the apparently trivial additional barrier of a few visits to the high street. Curious, but folk aren't logical at the best of times, so perhaps not a surprise they aren't logical at the worst.

A serial suicide-attempter once told me that she couldn't commit suicide with paracetamol because she was allergic to the antidote. So it had to be aspirin.

She was perfectly serious.

Latest Austrian opinion poll:

Freedom Party 32%
Social Democrats 22%
People's Party 20%
Greens 13%
NEOS 9%
Others 4%

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahl_zum_26._Nationalrat_in_Österreich

Tim_B said:

Regarding this 16 in a pack aspirin thing - if you are male and over 60 presumably your doctor has you on a low dose aspirin regimen (81mg). I get them in bottles of 365 - do they also come 16 to a pack in the UK?

It might be just around here but I haven't been able to buy tablet form half-strength Asprin for a couple of years. Now they are only available as big (choke a horse size) tablets that are to be dissolved in water.

Are you sure? Following your link gets a Stop the War republication of a Guardian article by Simon Jenkins examining a number of previous bombing campaigns and concluding bombing Syria won't work and it needs boots on the ground. The article was published on both sites in September.

http://stopwar.org.uk/news/bombing-is-immoral-stupid-and-never-wins-wars-syria-is-the-latest-victim
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/18/bombing-immoral-stupid-syria-victim-deaths-drones

Plato_Says said:

Stop the War (@STWuk) breaks it's silence on Russia's intervention in Syria. They support it.

http://t.co/AbcALJIxrN http://t.co/mPjUojRThz

TheScreamingEagles said:

Private polling klaxon

But Ukip sources disclosed that the party’s latest internal polling suggested the 34-point gap had narrowed to just seven points by this weekend, with Ukip on 35 per cent to Labour’s 42 per cent.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/12022787/Nigel-Farage-urges-Tory-voters-to-lend-him-their-vote-to-defeat-Labour-at-Oldham-by-election.html

Hmm. Trouble is that Tories would be mad to hasten the demise of Corbyn. Which is a shame as I have a few quid on UKIP in Oldham.

That's interesting. I can see the upside in that - the downside for the 99% who don't have another agenda is a biggy though

ReallyEvilMuffin said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

MyBurningEars said:

viewcode said:

Plato_Says said:

Anyone who's seriously intending to kill themselves isn't deterred by shopping for paracetamol over a few days or visiting a few more chemists.

True. But every little helps.

From what I recall, the restrictions on the maximum number of paracetamol available from a chemist has reduced its use in suicides.

Which suggests something about "Anyone who's seriously intending to kill themselves isn't deterred by shopping for paracetamol over a few days or visiting a few more chemists" is not quite right and there's some truth in "every little helps" ... there are people who in the past were sufficiently serious about suicide to actually attempt it, who have been put off by the apparently trivial additional barrier of a few visits to the high street. Curious, but folk aren't logical at the best of times, so perhaps not a surprise they aren't logical at the worst.

Restricting the number of tablets that can be bought may have reduced the use of paracetamol but surely a better question is whether it has reduced the rate of suicides overall -- and the evidence is not compelling.

A quick google finds that suicides had been declining for decades
http://www.crisis.org.cn/UploadFile/ReadParty/12-Time trends and geographic differences in suicide (E).pdf

but that the decline has now stopped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_Kingdom#Statistics

Doc here - the limits on paracetamol was never supposed to stop those who are determined. People who are determined do not go for overdoses. Very much more a shout for help behaviour of those who cannot cope. What it has done is stop those who are predisposed having a rough few days and trying to end it all. Makes it have to happen over a few days/shops which does make a difference for them. Or even if they do do it, they don't take enough to cause serious liver damage as often which is very hard to treat and can require a transplant.

There are long running debates about whether we should add the antidote to paracetamol. Essentially should those who use responsibly have another substance in them to help the few? Little data on how it works but sound rationale. Most of us who have treated someone regretting their mistake going yellow and slowly dying think it is a no brainer. Paracetamol would become a few pence more expensive a box though! (However government could provide all paracetamol free of charge with the money saved almost)

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MarqueeMark said:

Plato_Says said:

This has 10k shares so far. Mail readers aren't crying any tears here.

Dramatic footage has emerged online showing a suspected ISIS fighter crying after he was taken prisoner by Kurdish forces in Iraq.

The prisoner does not appear to have any noticeable injuries as he seats in the back of the armoured truck.

Much to the amusement of the Kurdish forces, the prisoner cries and moans loudly as he waits to be taken away.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337295/Not-tough-ISIS-fighter-cries-like-baby-captured-Kurdish-forces.html#ixzz3soUndaHk

I have heard stories of how some of the IRAs so-called hard men would piss and shit themselves when taken into custody.

Before the Hunger Strikes they even smeared shit on their prison cell walls.

"Mr. Sands' studio is decorated in a pastel shade of brown. " I find it very soothing and relaxing, he tells me.""

DecrepitJohnL said:

Are you sure? Following your link gets a Stop the War republication of a Guardian article by Simon Jenkins examining a number of previous bombing campaigns and concluding bombing Syria won't work and it needs boots on the ground. The article was published on both sites in September.

http://stopwar.org.uk/news/bombing-is-immoral-stupid-and-never-wins-wars-syria-is-the-latest-victim
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/18/bombing-immoral-stupid-syria-victim-deaths-drones

Plato_Says said:

Stop the War (@STWuk) breaks it's silence on Russia's intervention in Syria. They support it.

http://t.co/AbcALJIxrN http://t.co/mPjUojRThz

The trouble with these predictions, such as "bombing Syria won't work", is that nobody knows. "No battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy,”

MarkHopkins said:

Did you hear the one about Labour electing a terrorist-loving, Mao-supporting, England-hating leader?

No joke.

Don't be stupid they wouldn't be that mad........


Oh

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/670723859633541120

nigel4england said:

Tim_B said:

I used to do that but Heidi got about 15lbs overweight, so now the biscuits are in the pantry and Heidi has to ask for one. She's now about perfect fighting weight, and her annual bloodwork is perfect again.

Plato_Says said:

You're very disciplined. I used to have a wicker laundry basket and filled it with Bonios.

My greyhounds just took one when they fancied it.

Tim_B said:

Plato_Says said:

What have you and Heidi had for Thanksgiving?

Tim_B said:

Plato_Says said:

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

They must have read that ball games build team spirit

Plato_Says said:

What have you and Heidi had for Thanksgiving?

Tim_B said:

Plato_Says said:

0_o

ISIS video shows fighters kicking each other in the crotch to prepare for battle
https://t.co/6wh10qQUMb https://t.co/7PonCwMEcP

They must have read that ball games build team spirit

I had turkey with stuffing, gravy, sweet potato casserole topped with pecans, green bean casserole, peas, followed by apple pie and vanilla ice cream.

Heidi got some extra fuss and a couple of extra biscuits.

Plus as it's Thanksgiving almost 12 hours of football.

My dog weighs 60kg and doesn't really all that much

For a female US bred (not the more substantial and stocky European bred) German Shepherd of Heidi's size, the optimum weight is about 75lbs.

Moses_ said:

Plato_Says said:

I wouldn't. I have several friends who've considered it seriously and outside our little band, no one would guess for an instant. It's pride and stoicism and despair all rolled into one.

That's what makes it so sad.

Moses_ said:

Re suicide. I moved to a new house not far from my old one. Very good friends with my then neighbour. I went out in the evening with another friend and was walking back home from the pub. As it happened I walked past my old house and my friends next door.

The next morning I received a call from another friend and x neighbour to say that he had committed suicide in the car in the garage the previous evening. It was really tragic as he had a lovely wife 4 beautiful young children and I still to this day have no idea why? I do though quite often reflect when the subject arises as now and have never got out of my mind that I must have missed something really obvious when I walked by and perhaps , maybe could have prevented it,

Plato_Says said:

I wouldn't. I have several friends who've considered it seriously and outside our little band, no one would guess for an instant. It's pride and stoicism and despair all rolled into one.

That's what makes it so sad.

Moses_ said:

Re suicide. I moved to a new house not far from my old one. Very good friends with my then neighbour. I went out in the evening with another friend and was walking back home from the pub. As it happened I walked past my old house and my friends next door.

The next morning I received a call from another friend and x neighbour to say that he had committed suicide in the car in the garage the previous evening. It was really tragic as he had a lovely wife 4 beautiful young children and I still to this day have no idea why? I do though quite often reflect when the subject arises as now and have never got out of my mind that I must have missed something really obvious when I walked by and perhaps , maybe could have prevented it,

Thanks but all the same you think. .....it really was and is a tragic utter waste of a good person and life that will have implications long after for his family.

The one thing that has struck me here tonight is there is perhaps a dozen people posting at the moment and all of us in one form or another have either directly or indirectly experienced a suicide. That really is quite stunning and i wonder quite how prevalent this is in society as a whole and what we could do about it if anything?

I've had four clients who've committed suicide. None of them were in their right mind. I once suffered several months of intense depression. I didn't attempt suicide, but it enabled me to see why some people would do.

Plato_Says said:

Tomorrow's Sunday Times front page: Cameron to order killing of Isis leaders https://t.co/Xj09v8azN3

Fair enough.

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/670723859633541120

There's going to be some considerable disappointment in the Scotslass crannog tonight then....

Moses_ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/670723859633541120

There's going to be some considerable disappointment in the Scotslass crannog tonight then....

Has he been spotted delivering prezzies again?

HurstLlama said:

ReallyEvilMuffin said:

HurstLlama said:

Tim_B said:

Regarding this 16 in a pack aspirin thing - if you are male and over 60 presumably your doctor has you on a low dose aspirin regimen (81mg). I get them in bottles of 365 - do they also come 16 to a pack in the UK?

It might be just around here but I haven't been able to buy tablet form half-strength Asprin for a couple of years. Now they are only available as big (choke a horse size) tablets that are to be dissolved in water.

75mgs are available but notoriously more expensive than the 300mg's. Could dissolve them in water and throw 3/4 away. However aspirin has been falling out of favour recently and is secondary prevention only in the UK. I believe it is still primary prevention in the US.

Thanks, not that I know the difference between secondary and primary prevention. I got told years ago after a DVT to take one half-strength asprin a day and nobody has told me to stop so I still do.

Anyway, as you seem have confessed to being a physician, I am not really sure what to make of your nom-de-plume. Should doctors go under the "ReallyEvil" logo?

Gaming tag that I rather like to use while being anonymous. Secondary prevention is to prevent further episodes. Primary is to prevent any happening in the first place.

Interesting you do that I assume non prescribed - does your GP know you still are to advise whether you should or not? Medicine changes rapidly, and turns over so fast it is unreal. Myocardial Infarctions are case and point - about 5 years before I started there was little you could do other than pain relief. Whilst training everyone was getting thrombolysed. Before I finished PCI was the gold standard and now everywhere has a 24/7 PCI rota... The updates and changes are incredible!

rottenborough said:

A leadership election for Labour looks imminent to me. Maybe even within days.

Following defeat in Oldham?

Dair said:

Pulpstar said:

Serious betting question - Is there any chance on God's green earth Wayne Rooney will win SPOTY.

Pretty much certain it will be 1. Murray 2. Hamilton 3. Froome.

TBH, Froome might be a bit of a wild card, the cycling lobby is very well organised but obviously it lacks the casual appeal of Tennis and F1. The Davis Cup might not be Wimbledon but it will be very recently in mind and likely the narrative will be how Murray put aside his chances of more Slams to make sure GB could win it with him and his brother.

Rooney will be nowhere. And I'm fairly sure Ennis won't get top three now.

I'd say Murray is about as certain as Wiggins was in 2012 or Murray was in 2013 or Hamilton was in 2014. Assuming he wins tomorrow, naturally.

You must have made a fortune backing all of these SPOTY certainties. I think Hamilton was available at 7/1 on the night last year.

AndyJS said:

rottenborough said:

A leadership election for Labour looks imminent to me. Maybe even within days.

Following defeat in Oldham?

What a great name for a beauty contest candidate - Miss Oldham. The only one better would be Miss Huddersfield, dropping the H.

Tim_B said:

HurstLlama said:

ReallyEvilMuffin said:

HurstLlama said:

Tim_B said:

Regarding this 16 in a pack aspirin thing - if you are male and over 60 presumably your doctor has you on a low dose aspirin regimen (81mg). I get them in bottles of 365 - do they also come 16 to a pack in the UK?

It might be just around here but I haven't been able to buy tablet form half-strength Asprin for a couple of years. Now they are only available as big (choke a horse size) tablets that are to be dissolved in water.

75mgs are available but notoriously more expensive than the 300mg's. Could dissolve them in water and throw 3/4 away. However aspirin has been falling out of favour recently and is secondary prevention only in the UK. I believe it is still primary prevention in the US.

Thanks, not that I know the difference between secondary and primary prevention. I got told years ago after a DVT to take one half-strength asprin a day and nobody has told me to stop so I still do.

Anyway, as you seem have confessed to being a physician, I am not really sure what to make of your nom-de-plume. Should doctors go under the "ReallyEvil" logo?

The 81mg daily aspirin dose is a stroke prevention thing. At about $6 for a bottle of 365 tablets it's a cheap option.

Obviously if your doctor thinks you are a prime candidate they will prescribe something more.

This is where you need to be careful with recent updates - aspirin used to be more widely used. Now we know it has limited use in stroke prevention if you also have AF. If you have a stroke then after the initial treatment then clopidogril is now known the one that is best. If you can't take clopidogril (rare) then aspirin is normally used mixed with dipyridamole. Aspirin is still the first line post MI. Starts getting more tricky if you have had both though...

rottenborough said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Are you sure? Following your link gets a Stop the War republication of a Guardian article by Simon Jenkins examining a number of previous bombing campaigns and concluding bombing Syria won't work and it needs boots on the ground. The article was published on both sites in September.

http://stopwar.org.uk/news/bombing-is-immoral-stupid-and-never-wins-wars-syria-is-the-latest-victim
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/18/bombing-immoral-stupid-syria-victim-deaths-drones

Plato_Says said:

Stop the War (@STWuk) breaks it's silence on Russia's intervention in Syria. They support it.

http://t.co/AbcALJIxrN http://t.co/mPjUojRThz

The trouble with these predictions, such as "bombing Syria won't work", is that nobody knows. "No battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy,”

We can get a pointer from what the bombing in Iraq has, or has not, achieved. Iraqi and Iranian forces retook Tikrit from iSIS back in April; although there was purposefully little allied bombing directly in support, it is claimed the bombing pinned down ISIS fighters elsewhere, helping the government forces (who were reportedly reluctant for US help)

Ramadi, which ISIS captured in May after a six-month battle, is now encircled by government troops, and is believed to have been cut off from outside support. Again, there has been limited air support, but reports of some potentially useful targeted attacks.

So it looks as if, in battles itself, some of the groups fighting are reluctant to ask for US help (the Iraqi government itself is less so). That does not mean that strikes to destroy and interrupt ISIS supply lines away from the front are useless.

So, potentially a mixed picture that everyone can find something in to back up their position ...

Incidentally, for anyone wanting to read what happens after a city like Tikrit is recaptured from IS, then the Wiki entry for the second battle of Tikrit is sombre reading for all sorts of reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Tikrit#Clearing_the_city

Tim_B said:

AndyJS said:

rottenborough said:

A leadership election for Labour looks imminent to me. Maybe even within days.

Following defeat in Oldham?

What a great name for a beauty contest candidate - Miss Oldham. The only one better would be Miss Huddersfield, dropping the H.

In some parts of the US they'd probably re-name Oldham as Youngham because it sounds better.

This should boost Labour in the polls

@JamesTapsfield: So looks like two pronged counter-offensive on TV tomorrow with Corbyn on Marr & McDonnell on Murnaghan

AndyJS said:

Tim_B said:

AndyJS said:

rottenborough said:

A leadership election for Labour looks imminent to me. Maybe even within days.

Following defeat in Oldham?

What a great name for a beauty contest candidate - Miss Oldham. The only one better would be Miss Huddersfield, dropping the H.

In some parts of the US they'd probably re-name Oldham as Youngham because it sounds better.

Or Melontown......

HurstLlama said:

rottenborough said:

justin124 said:

rottenborough said:

A leadership election for Labour looks imminent to me. Maybe even within days.

If Corbyn refuses to walk such an election would not take place until September 2016.

Not even Jezz could survive almost an entire shadow cabinet walk out.

What makes you say that? Can he not just appoint another bunch and carry on?

Corbyn lacks intelligence, self-awareness and political cunning. He is shameless and he is determined. He sees the PLP in general and the shadow cabinet specifically as enemies. He will only go when NickP and the rest of the Labour membership tire of the perennial and humiliating defeat that being led by apologists for terrorism and murder inevitably delivers.

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/670723859633541120

I rather think Labour have provided enough political entertainment in recent months, so as fun as that would be, I hope not. Time for them to get serious, and given the membership adores JC, apparently, that means getting behind him, or at least not scuppering him, until such time as he crashes and burns.

Is causing me stress, so far this week, Mike, Alastair and I have written five threads, that have been culled because the Corbyn clusterfuck just keeps on getting worse & worse and superseded our threads.

I want a few months of boring politics thank you very much.