politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile in Oldham….
Comments
-
Like!!RobD said:Just got off the phone with my broker. Telling me to sell my popcorn shares now, since the market can't get any better
0 -
As I've said a few times, given our system, he is entirely inappropriate to lead Labour. He would have a place leading a small wedge party to the extreme left.SeanT said:
According to reports Corbyn also speculated whether the French were right to bomb the ISIS capital of Raqqa (as they did) in response to the massacre. Which begs the obvious question: In what circumstances would he ever attack Islamist terrorists/terror states in retaliation for attacks on UK citizens?Toms said:
Thanks. Granted, that's pretty bloody bad.Pulpstar said:
Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.
The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".
He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.
"I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.
The implied answer is that Corbyn would NEVER defend Britain in this way.
He is beyond unelectable.0 -
IMHO Mr Corbyn hasn't "called it" at all. He's simply sticking to his principles in the teeth of the most difficult circumstances he's ever encountered.Casino_Royale said:
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
He's a pacifist. This is what pacifists believe.
Whether his principles have been adequately thought through is another matter. If they haven't, the impact of reality may be catastrophic for him personally.0 -
Oh I see. I think she's very likely to make the runoffs. But this is about Hollande also trying to make it too and, if he does, being sufficiently tough to hold onto tactical votes from the soft-right to stop her.Alanbrooke said:
The french mainstream is currently on catch up with Le Pen. A sudden swing in her direction wont stop her getting in to the presidential runoffs.Casino_Royale said:
What do you doubt?Alanbrooke said:
I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.0 -
@DanHannanMEP: In a crowded field, this is the single most fatuous response to the Paris abominations. https://t.co/enV4xCYK210
-
I'd agree with you, but I have some bets on him staying for a bit with his optimal departure time being 2020 (Any time after 2017 will do though xD)Casino_Royale said:
Actually, it's beyond funny now. As a pbTory, I don't care whether him remaining as Labour leader helps the Tories from a narrowly partisan perspective in GE2020 anymore.SeanT said:
According to reports Corbyn also speculated whether the French were right to bomb the ISIS capital of Raqqa (as they did) in response to the massacre. Which begs the obvious question: In what circumstances would he ever attack Islamist terrorists/terror states in retaliation for attacks on UK citizens?Toms said:
Thanks. Granted, that's pretty bloody bad.Pulpstar said:
Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.
The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".
He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.
"I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.
The implied answer is that Corbyn would NEVER defend Britain in this way.
He is beyond unelectable.
He's a danger to this country, and a traitor. He in no way deserves to be leader of HM Opposition and is constantly debasing the office and our reputation overseas.
I want him out.0 -
I should add that, IMHO, the issue in this country absolutely is defence spending.Alanbrooke said:
I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.
We should be increasing it.0 -
What signs over the weekend might those be?Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: In a crowded field, this is the single most fatuous response to the Paris abominations. https://t.co/enV4xCYK21
ISIS vows to attack Washington next in chilling new video and vows EVERY nation involved in Syrian airstrikes will 'suffer France's fate' as CIA director warns 'this is not a one-off'0 -
Having studiously avoided each other over the past 10 years, I consider any future meeting to be very unlikely.SeanT said:
If I ever meet NPXMP in person I will politely spit fine wine in his silly face.flightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
The Momentum tendency in Labour mainly want to transmogrify labour. Winning a general election would be an unheard of bonus. They first are interested in evicting the labour PLP moderates in order to complete their take over.SouthamObserver said:
It is not a matter of calling it, he is saying what he believes. What he believes, though, makes him unelectable. But this is what Labour wants.Casino_Royale said:
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
The PLP have already missed one chance to revolt. Time is already running out. If they do not walk out and create their new party soon it will be too late. They will be thrown out anyway and not survive to fight the 2020 election.0 -
Nick and his mates will run happily over the ledge. They have absolutely no idea just how poisonous they are making Labour and just how unelectable. And this was all so obvious. If you elect an apologist for terrorism what you get is an apologist for terrorism.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbyn is Labours own suicide bomber. He will take the whole party to hell with him.Scrapheap_as_was said:Labour had a lucky escape, nearly voted in a tory as leader!
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 10m10 minutes ago
Yvette Cooper was among those who criticised @jeremycorbyn for saying he opposed shoot-to-kill for terrorists.
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 15m15 minutes ago
Tonight's PLP was brutal for @jeremycorbyn. One MP: "I've never seen that level of discontent. I've never seen the PLP so angry."
0 -
Well I had a quiet chuckle this pm when watching some french lefty on the BBC condemning Le Pen for "exploiting" the crisis and then in the next sentence saying Hollande would gain support from it. She didn't seem to realise they were both doing the same thing.Casino_Royale said:
Oh I see. I think she's very likely to make the runoffs. But this is about Hollande also trying to make it too and, if he does, being sufficiently tough to hold onto tactical votes from the soft-right to stop her.Alanbrooke said:
The french mainstream is currently on catch up with Le Pen. A sudden swing in her direction wont stop her getting in to the presidential runoffs.Casino_Royale said:
What do you doubt?Alanbrooke said:
I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.0 -
@JeremyCliffe: Not just moderate Labour types who are disgusted at Corbyn; well-known in party that many who campaigned for him feel utterly let down.0
-
And he says it so politely. Onwards to victory, comrades.Scrapheap_as_was said:
sounds accurate but isn't it nice to be clear on what the leader's position is at least... what a breath of fresh air.Scott_P said:@PickardJE: Labour MP. "Corbyn has a counsel of doing nothing. He can't think of terrorism as anything other than a response to the West."
0 -
That's what they said after the last meeting of the PLP, (IIRC).Scrapheap_as_was said:Labour had a lucky escape, nearly voted in a tory as leader!
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 10m10 minutes ago
Yvette Cooper was among those who criticised @jeremycorbyn for saying he opposed shoot-to-kill for terrorists.
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 15m15 minutes ago
Tonight's PLP was brutal for @jeremycorbyn. One MP: "I've never seen that level of discontent. I've never seen the PLP so angry."0 -
There's a difference between principles and dogma: principles are guides to your ethics and values; dogma says those principles are always incontrovertibly true and are never open to any form of interpretation.AnneJGP said:
IMHO Mr Corbyn hasn't "called it" at all. He's simply sticking to his principles in the teeth of the most difficult circumstances he's ever encountered.Casino_Royale said:
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
He's a pacifist. This is what pacifists believe.
Whether his principles have been adequately thought through is another matter. If they haven't, the impact of reality may be catastrophic for him personally.
In other words, the former implies you think; the latter implies you do not. Thinking does not make you a sell-out.
Besides which, there are pacifists who recognise there are some circumstances in which there is no alternative but to use lethal force to prevent a far greater evil.
Corbyn cannot name a single one. That's dogma, bordering on fanaticism.0 -
The thing it doesn't seem to matter how crap the leader...Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, the PLP just never stand up and do the right thing.flightpath01 said:
That's what they said after the last meeting of the PLP, (IIRC).Scrapheap_as_was said:Labour had a lucky escape, nearly voted in a tory as leader!
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 10m10 minutes ago
Yvette Cooper was among those who criticised @jeremycorbyn for saying he opposed shoot-to-kill for terrorists.
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 15m15 minutes ago
Tonight's PLP was brutal for @jeremycorbyn. One MP: "I've never seen that level of discontent. I've never seen the PLP so angry."0 -
Perhaps we should heat Raqqa up to a nice toasty temperature, 10 million degrees or so...FrancisUrquhart said:
What signs over the weekend might those be?Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: In a crowded field, this is the single most fatuous response to the Paris abominations. https://t.co/enV4xCYK21
ISIS vows to attack Washington next in chilling new video and vows EVERY nation involved in Syrian airstrikes will 'suffer France's fate' as CIA director warns 'this is not a one-off'0 -
Please never changer your avatar. LOL!Scrapheap_as_was said:
Like!!RobD said:Just got off the phone with my broker. Telling me to sell my popcorn shares now, since the market can't get any better
0 -
What the f...?! I'm not about to sudden advocate sudden authoritarian or military shifts myself, and I have spoken to plenty of people in the last few days who are resolutely opposed to bombing Syria, but I don't even understand the thought process whereby someone arrives at the conclusions of that spokesman.Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: In a crowded field, this is the single most fatuous response to the Paris abominations. https://t.co/enV4xCYK21
0 -
@paulwaugh: Corbyn spksmn insisted PLP united on overall position on Syria, points out Cameron tday came round to Lab position that coherent plan needed0
-
Twitter currently lining up to kick the Green Party tonight.
Not what I was expecting...0 -
Spot on.Casino_Royale said:
Besides which, there are pacifists who recognise there are some circumstances in which there is no alternative but to use lethal force to prevent a far greater evil.
Corbyn cannot name a single one. That's dogma, bordering on fanaticism.0 -
Merkel to start back pedalling on immigration ?
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/kommentar-ueber-die-fluechtlingspolitik-ist-das-merkels-kehrtwende-13915963.html0 -
What is this united position that we were led to believe Labour had agreed on? Tickling suicide bombers with feather dusters?Scott_P said:@paulwaugh: Corbyn spksmn insisted PLP united on overall position on Syria, points out Cameron tday came round to Lab position that coherent plan needed
0 -
Good grief. That's meaningless, it's not as if the PM was arguing for an incoherent plan.Scott_P said:@paulwaugh: Corbyn spksmn insisted PLP united on overall position on Syria, points out Cameron tday came round to Lab position that coherent plan needed
0 -
If ISIS did manage to detonate a nuclear device in the UK, via terrorism, then I think this we could come the closest we ever might to Trident actually being used:Pulpstar said:
Perhaps we should heat Raqqa up to a nice toasty temperature, 10 million degrees or so...FrancisUrquhart said:
What signs over the weekend might those be?Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: In a crowded field, this is the single most fatuous response to the Paris abominations. https://t.co/enV4xCYK21
ISIS vows to attack Washington next in chilling new video and vows EVERY nation involved in Syrian airstrikes will 'suffer France's fate' as CIA director warns 'this is not a one-off'
"State-Sponsored Terrorism
3-11. We know that international terrorists are trying to acquire radiological weapons. In future, there are risks that they may tryto aquire nuclear weapons. While our nuclear deterrent is not designed to deter non-state actors, it should influence the decision-making of any state that might consider transferring nuclear weapons or nuclear technology to terrorists. We make no distinction between the means by which a state might choose to deliver a nuclear warhead, whether, for example, by missile or sponsored terrorists. Any state that we can hold responsible for assisting a nuclearattack on our vital interests can expect that this would lead to a proportionate response. "
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/27378/DefenceWhitePaper2006_Cm6994.pdf0 -
@PolhomeEditor: Despite testimony of several MPs, Jeremy's top spinner insisted his critics are a "voluble" minority and that the mainstream PLP back him.0
-
I think Cooper has a reasonable* chance of being Labour leader in 2020. Reasoning:
Corbyn cannot survive like this, he will have to go, even if not immediately.
Burnham has tied himself to Corbyn, so he cannot lead.
A female leader might provide a break from all of this - and she is standing up to the current leadership.
(* For some value of reasonable.)
0 -
As MikeK pointed out on the last thread: Corbyn is not a pacifist. He refused to condemn the IRA, Hamas or Hezbollah. His pacifism is restricted to his own people, he seems relaxed about violent acts by others. Ditto Milne.Casino_Royale said:
There's a difference between principles and dogma: principles are guides to your ethics and values; dogma says those principles are always incontrovertibly true and are never open to any form of interpretation.AnneJGP said:
IMHO Mr Corbyn hasn't "called it" at all. He's simply sticking to his principles in the teeth of the most difficult circumstances he's ever encountered.Casino_Royale said:
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
He's a pacifist. This is what pacifists believe.
Whether his principles have been adequately thought through is another matter. If they haven't, the impact of reality may be catastrophic for him personally.
In other words, the former implies you think; the latter implies you do not. Thinking does not make you a sell-out.
Besides which, there are pacifists who recognise there are some circumstances in which there is no alternative but to use lethal force to prevent a far greater evil.
Corbyn cannot name a single one. That's dogma, bordering on fanaticism.0 -
Yes, he's a traitor.foxinsoxuk said:
As MikeK pointed out on the last thread: Corbyn is not a pacifist. He refused to condemn the IRA, Hamas or Hezbollah. His pacifism is restricted to his own people, he seems relaxed about violent acts by others. Ditto Milne.Casino_Royale said:
There's a difference between principles and dogma: principles are guides to your ethics and values; dogma says those principles are always incontrovertibly true and are never open to any form of interpretation.AnneJGP said:
IMHO Mr Corbyn hasn't "called it" at all. He's simply sticking to his principles in the teeth of the most difficult circumstances he's ever encountered.Casino_Royale said:
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
He's a pacifist. This is what pacifists believe.
Whether his principles have been adequately thought through is another matter. If they haven't, the impact of reality may be catastrophic for him personally.
In other words, the former implies you think; the latter implies you do not. Thinking does not make you a sell-out.
Besides which, there are pacifists who recognise there are some circumstances in which there is no alternative but to use lethal force to prevent a far greater evil.
Corbyn cannot name a single one. That's dogma, bordering on fanaticism.0 -
That pretty much nails it.SeanT said:
Jeremy Corbyn (like his chosen Chancellor) is very definitely NOT a pacifist. He wholly supports armed struggle, just so long as this struggle is AGAINST us (e.g. the IRA), or America (Islamists, anarchists) or of couyse Israel (all of Islam). At a pinch Corbyn will support attacks on all westerners in general (Putin),AnneJGP said:
IMHO Mr Corbyn hasn't "called it" at all. He's simply sticking to his principles in the teeth of the most difficult circumstances he's ever encountered.Casino_Royale said:
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
He's a pacifist. This is what pacifists believe.
Whether his principles have been adequately thought through is another matter. If they haven't, the impact of reality may be catastrophic for him personally.
What he reviles is western liberal democracy defending itself. We must not do this, as we are evil capitalist exploiters who deserve to suffer.
This is genuinely his position. And he is Leader of the Opposition.
0 -
He doesn't need to, he would easily get the 20% of MPs required to launch a challenge, even if he does not authorise it, and Corbyn would not get enough MPs to nominate him so Benn would be elected unopposedflightpath01 said:
How does Benn defeat Corbyn in a vote of the Labour / Momentum / Stop the War membership?HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
I'm not sure I've really been that big a supporter - I only placed him 3rd on my ballot.SeanT said:
You've been a supporter of Corbyn, IIRC, until now. Do you resile, following his ludicrous and horrible opinions as expressed today?Danny565 said:
Corbyn will not be leader in 2020.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
I still support most of his economic stances, and I do think already the Tax Credits government u-turn is slight vindication of him (if the Labour leader had been someone who put up more equivocal opposition to the tax credit cuts, the govt would have felt less pressure). However, his foreign policy / defence stances always worried me, and unfortuantely I now see I should've been even more worried.0 -
Ouch - but if Labour are not careful the party ill be tainted for a generation at least.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbyn is Labours own suicide bomber. He will take the whole party to hell with him.Scrapheap_as_was said:Labour had a lucky escape, nearly voted in a tory as leader!
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 10m10 minutes ago
Yvette Cooper was among those who criticised @jeremycorbyn for saying he opposed shoot-to-kill for terrorists.
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 15m15 minutes ago
Tonight's PLP was brutal for @jeremycorbyn. One MP: "I've never seen that level of discontent. I've never seen the PLP so angry."0 -
That's a killer line which is going to get deployed at some critical point to a devastating effect.foxinsoxuk said:
As MikeK pointed out on the last thread: Corbyn is not a pacifist. He refused to condemn the IRA, Hamas or Hezbollah. His pacifism is restricted to his own people, he seems relaxed about violent acts by others. Ditto Milne.Casino_Royale said:
There's a difference between principles and dogma: principles are guides to your ethics and values; dogma says those principles are always incontrovertibly true and are never open to any form of interpretation.AnneJGP said:
IMHO Mr Corbyn hasn't "called it" at all. He's simply sticking to his principles in the teeth of the most difficult circumstances he's ever encountered.Casino_Royale said:
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
He's a pacifist. This is what pacifists believe.
Whether his principles have been adequately thought through is another matter. If they haven't, the impact of reality may be catastrophic for him personally.
In other words, the former implies you think; the latter implies you do not. Thinking does not make you a sell-out.
Besides which, there are pacifists who recognise there are some circumstances in which there is no alternative but to use lethal force to prevent a far greater evil.
Corbyn cannot name a single one. That's dogma, bordering on fanaticism.
It could be as damaging as Miliband's response to the accusation that the last labour government over spent.0 -
“We have to restore this relationship that has been frozen in recent years, as a result of this conflict,” said Fulvio Pompeo, Mr Macri’s most senior foreign policy adviser.Casino_Royale said:
There is nothing* to negotiate unless the Falkland Islanders wish it so.HYUFD said:
If Mauricio Macri wins the Argentine presidency on Sunday he has promised to negotiate with the UK and take a less hostile tone than Kirchner's favoured candidate, Daniel ScioliCasino_Royale said:Are the policy positions inaccurate?
(1) I've never heard Corbyn argue for any restriction on immigration
(2) He wants (at best) to drastically reduce the armed forces - perhaps he might let us have a part-time militia
(3) He's on the record as wanting that - even the Queen knows that
(4) He would almost certainly start immediate negotiations with Argentina to that effect
It might be more accurate to say they are personal positions, rather than official UK Labour Party policy positions, but when the guy is up as the main alternative candidate for Prime Minister, that stuff still matters.
Unless it's about regional economic cooperation and improved trade, which is absolutely up for negotiation.
“We will maintain forever our claim to the Falklands. But our relations with Britain should be broadened.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/11947020/mauricio-macri-argentina-britain-falklands.html0 -
The PLP manage don't like the cut of Corbyn's jib.
AND THEY'RE GOING TO DO PRECISELY NOTHING ABOUT IT.0 -
I agree. Even people who want to see Labour out of office for as long as possible must now surely support his swift removal as leader of the opposition.Casino_Royale said:
Actually, it's beyond funny now. As a pbTory, I don't care whether him remaining as Labour leader helps the Tories from a narrowly partisan perspective in GE2020 anymore.SeanT said:
According to reports Corbyn also speculated whether the French were right to bomb the ISIS capital of Raqqa (as they did) in response to the massacre. Which begs the obvious question: In what circumstances would he ever attack Islamist terrorists/terror states in retaliation for attacks on UK citizens?Toms said:
Thanks. Granted, that's pretty bloody bad.Pulpstar said:
Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.
The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".
He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.
"I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.
The implied answer is that Corbyn would NEVER defend Britain in this way.
He is beyond unelectable.
He's a danger to this country, and a traitor. He in no way deserves to be leader of HM Opposition and is constantly debasing the office and our reputation overseas.
I want him out.0 -
LOL - could have been written by Corbyn.Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: In a crowded field, this is the single most fatuous response to the Paris abominations. https://t.co/enV4xCYK21
0 -
Isn't there some sort of rule of politics that the more a statement is so bland no person could conceivably disagree with it, the more it conceals something very bitter? Honestly, that is a pretty weaksauce rebuttal, Corbyn spokesman, you must be able to do better than that. Labour has an incredibly robust base of support, the Tories will have been cutting for 10 years in 2020, it should be an open goal for you.Jonathan said:
Good grief. That's meaningless, it's not as if the PM was arguing for an incoherent plan.Scott_P said:@paulwaugh: Corbyn spksmn insisted PLP united on overall position on Syria, points out Cameron tday came round to Lab position that coherent plan needed
Doesn't seem likely. The public won't accept tax rises to pay for it or cuts of the size elsewhere to make up the difference, given the largest available budgets are health and welfare, and as popular as many welfare cuts might be, we seem to have reached the bottom of what has been deemed politically acceptable.Casino_Royale said:
I should add that, IMHO, the issue in this country absolutely is defence spending.Alanbrooke said:
I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.
We should be increasing it.0 -
He won't be PM of course or win the election, his job will be to make modest progress as Michael Howard did for the Tories and then hand over to Chuka Umunna, Stella Creasey or Dan Jarvis after an election defeatpeter_from_putney said:
Please God this happens .... if Benn were then to succeed Cameron as the next Prime Minister, my 949/1 bet then delivers!HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
Absolutely agreeCasino_Royale said:
I should add that, IMHO, the issue in this country absolutely is defence spending.Alanbrooke said:
I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.
We should be increasing it.0 -
I would say you are right. Mr Corbyn's tragedy is that he adopted the dogma he absorbed when young as the guiding principles of his life.Casino_Royale said:
There's a difference between principles and dogma: principles are guides to your ethics and values; dogma says those principles are always incontrovertibly true and are never open to any form of interpretation.AnneJGP said:
IMHO Mr Corbyn hasn't "called it" at all. He's simply sticking to his principles in the teeth of the most difficult circumstances he's ever encountered.Casino_Royale said:
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
He's a pacifist. This is what pacifists believe.
Whether his principles have been adequately thought through is another matter. If they haven't, the impact of reality may be catastrophic for him personally.
In other words, the former implies you think; the latter implies you do not. Thinking does not make you a sell-out.
Besides which, there are pacifists who recognise there are some circumstances in which there is no alternative but to use lethal force to prevent a far greater evil.
Corbyn cannot name a single one. That's dogma, bordering on fanaticism.
He's stuck to that dogma unswervingly all his life. He hasn't had any practice in deciding which is a least-bad choice among several because his 'principles' have always given him the one right answer pat.
He is now being faced with real moral dilemmas that require actual answers, and dilemmas that have no perfect decisions.
It's likely to be a personal tragedy for him.0 -
Seriously, we're going over this again?HYUFD said:
He doesn't need to, he would easily get the 20% of MPs required to launch a challenge, even if he does not authorise it, and Corbyn would not get enough MPs to nominate him so Benn would be elected unopposedflightpath01 said:
How does Benn defeat Corbyn in a vote of the Labour / Momentum / Stop the War membership?HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
It could happen. Benn has a certain statesmanlike aura about him which most politicians these days sorely lack. I can see him being Labour's equivalent of Michael Howard replacing IDS in 2003.peter_from_putney said:
Please God this happens .... if Benn were then to succeed Cameron as the next Prime Minister, my 949/1 bet then delivers!HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
Yes, I think that's right. He's let it define him as a person.AnneJGP said:
I would say you are right. Mr Corbyn's tragedy is that he adopted the dogma he absorbed when young as the guiding principles of his life.Casino_Royale said:
There's a difference between principles and dogma: principles are guides to your ethics and values; dogma says those principles are always incontrovertibly true and are never open to any form of interpretation.AnneJGP said:
IMHO Mr Corbyn hasn't "called it" at all. He's simply sticking to his principles in the teeth of the most difficult circumstances he's ever encountered.Casino_Royale said:
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
He's a pacifist. This is what pacifists believe.
Whether his principles have been adequately thought through is another matter. If they haven't, the impact of reality may be catastrophic for him personally.
In other words, the former implies you think; the latter implies you do not. Thinking does not make you a sell-out.
Besides which, there are pacifists who recognise there are some circumstances in which there is no alternative but to use lethal force to prevent a far greater evil.
Corbyn cannot name a single one. That's dogma, bordering on fanaticism.
He's stuck to that dogma unswervingly all his life. He hasn't had any practice in deciding which is a least-bad choice among several because his 'principles' have always given him the one right answer pat.
He is now being faced with real moral dilemmas that require actual answers, and dilemmas that have no perfect decisions.
It's likely to be a personal tragedy for him.
He's now totally unable to separate the man himself from his politics and, if he did, he might lose his sense of identity as a person.
So he must go.0 -
I'm surprised his people would advocate such a stance with an upcoming election, even if they do indeed mean it and they naturally are not questioning the Argentinian claim in any way - it just seems unnecessary to bring it up.HYUFD said:
“We have to restore this relationship that has been frozen in recent years, as a result of this conflict,” said Fulvio Pompeo, Mr Macri’s most senior foreign policy adviser.Casino_Royale said:
There is nothing* to negotiate unless the Falkland Islanders wish it so.HYUFD said:
If Mauricio Macri wins the Argentine presidency on Sunday he has promised to negotiate with the UK and take a less hostile tone than Kirchner's favoured candidate, Daniel ScioliCasino_Royale said:Are the policy positions inaccurate?
(1) I've never heard Corbyn argue for any restriction on immigration
(2) He wants (at best) to drastically reduce the armed forces - perhaps he might let us have a part-time militia
(3) He's on the record as wanting that - even the Queen knows that
(4) He would almost certainly start immediate negotiations with Argentina to that effect
It might be more accurate to say they are personal positions, rather than official UK Labour Party policy positions, but when the guy is up as the main alternative candidate for Prime Minister, that stuff still matters.
Unless it's about regional economic cooperation and improved trade, which is absolutely up for negotiation.
“We will maintain forever our claim to the Falklands. But our relations with Britain should be broadened.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/11947020/mauricio-macri-argentina-britain-falklands.html
The cynic in me suggests it could be helpful for them to unfreeze the issue a bit, that way they can freeze it again as a distraction later on - keep it up all the time, they have nowhere to go to escalate things short of actual war, which is not on the agenda.0 -
"Lib Dems his by-election campaign trail with classic dodgy bar chart
The Lib Dems have hit the campaign trail in the Oldham West by-election with a classic example of their most fabled vote-winning technique: the leaflet bar chart. The party has a long history of dodgy bar charts – and the latest is one of their best ever."
http://labourlist.org/2015/11/lib-dems-his-by-election-campaign-trail-with-classic-dodgy-bar-chart/0 -
PLEASE stop trying to make Chuka happen! He's not going to happen.HYUFD said:
He won't be PM of course or win the election, his job will be to make modest progress as Michael Howard did for the Tories and then hand over to Chuka Umunna, Stella Creasey or Dan Jarvis after an election defeatpeter_from_putney said:
Please God this happens .... if Benn were then to succeed Cameron as the next Prime Minister, my 949/1 bet then delivers!HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
0 -
@PickardJE: Apparently Diane Abbott was doing a stack of Christmas cards during PLP meeting on Syria/Paris. Surely that can't be true @HackneyAbbott?0
-
Actually, Corbynista's are leading the nation... in their prism of the world.Scott_P said:
Eat Their Own Feet...Pulpstar said:The PLP manage don't like the cut of Corbyn's jib.
AND THEY'RE GOING TO DO PRECISELY NOTHING ABOUT IT.
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 14m14 minutes ago
Corbyn spksmn insisted PLP united on overall position on Syria, points out Cameron tday came round to Lab position that coherent plan needed0 -
SeanT said:
Thought: if immigration, security, defence, crime, and "social cohesion" dominate the 2020 election, and if that election is conducted with Corbyn as Labour leader, Labour could poll around 20%.
I guess we're going to find out what Labour's core vote really is.
0 -
A friend has placed on his FB timeline comparing ISIS's actions in France to Israel.Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: In a crowded field, this is the single most fatuous response to the Paris abominations. https://t.co/enV4xCYK21
His favoured course of action? Dialogue with ISIS.
He just doesn't get it.
0 -
With the difference being that, unlike Howard, a Benn-led Labour would be facing the Tories' Gordon Brown rather than the Tories' Tony Blair.AndyJS said:
It could happen. Benn has a certain statesmanlike aura about him which most politicians these days sorely lack. I can see him being Labour's equivalent of Michael Howard replacing IDS in 2003.peter_from_putney said:
Please God this happens .... if Benn were then to succeed Cameron as the next Prime Minister, my 949/1 bet then delivers!HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
In the current climate, I think the public might well accept cuts elsewhere for defence spending.kle4 said:
Isn't there some sort of rule of politics that the more a statement is so bland no person could conceivably disagree with it, the more it conceals something very bitter? Honestly, that is a pretty weaksauce rebuttal, Corbyn spokesman, you must be able to do better than that. Labour has an incredibly robust base of support, the Tories will have been cutting for 10 years in 2020, it should be an open goal for you.Jonathan said:
Good grief. That's meaningless, it's not as if the PM was arguing for an incoherent plan.Scott_P said:@paulwaugh: Corbyn spksmn insisted PLP united on overall position on Syria, points out Cameron tday came round to Lab position that coherent plan needed
Doesn't seem likely. The public won't accept tax rises to pay for it or cuts of the size elsewhere to make up the difference, given the largest available budgets are health and welfare, and as popular as many welfare cuts might be, we seem to have reached the bottom of what has been deemed politically acceptable.Casino_Royale said:
I should add that, IMHO, the issue in this country absolutely is defence spending.Alanbrooke said:
I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.
We should be increasing it.
It's a good job I'm not CoE. I would freeze education, health, international aid and abolish the triple-lock.
I would ameliorate some of the cuts in justice, the home office and policing, and fund a rise in defence spending with it whilst maintaining the present trajectory for a balanced budget by GE2020.0 -
@elashton: On legality of Emwazi air strike, Corbyn's spokesman says: "There clearly is a question mark over it. That's not in doubt."Scrapheap_as_was said:Actually, Corbynista's are leading the nation... in their prism of the world.
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 14m14 minutes ago
Corbyn spksmn insisted PLP united on overall position on Syria, points out Cameron tday came round to Lab position that coherent plan needed
@Samfr: These tweets make more sense when you remember the spokesman is Seumas Milne. https://t.co/m8SuD2kQtb0 -
As if it was January, 1963 ...Casino_Royale said:
How does it feel?antifrank said:Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.
0 -
And in which constituency he/she lives.MarkHopkins said:SeanT said:Thought: if immigration, security, defence, crime, and "social cohesion" dominate the 2020 election, and if that election is conducted with Corbyn as Labour leader, Labour could poll around 20%.
I guess we're going to find out what Labour's core vote really is.0 -
I have this idea that arch-Corbynites rank other Labour members based on where they placed Corbyn on the ballot. A tier 3 Labourite in your case, to be watched closely no doubt, like an EU supporting Tory would be watched in their ranks, but not necessarily a threat. A tier 4 is a traitor, and an unTiered is an actual, no joke, demon in disguise. Tier 2s are welcome to break bread with the purity of the Tier1s, they can be the face to the public, but no more.Danny565 said:
I'm not sure I've really been that big a supporter - I only placed him 3rd on my ballot.SeanT said:
You've been a supporter of Corbyn, IIRC, until now. Do you resile, following his ludicrous and horrible opinions as expressed today?Danny565 said:
Corbyn will not be leader in 2020.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
It's a shame this is flaring up over some serious stuff, as party civil wars seem pretty funny otherwise, I can only hope the Tory one will be hilarious.
0 -
Then that is progress.HYUFD said:
“We have to restore this relationship that has been frozen in recent years, as a result of this conflict,” said Fulvio Pompeo, Mr Macri’s most senior foreign policy adviser.Casino_Royale said:
There is nothing* to negotiate unless the Falkland Islanders wish it so.HYUFD said:
If Mauricio Macri wins the Argentine presidency on Sunday he has promised to negotiate with the UK and take a less hostile tone than Kirchner's favoured candidate, Daniel ScioliCasino_Royale said:Are the policy positions inaccurate?
(1) I've never heard Corbyn argue for any restriction on immigration
(2) He wants (at best) to drastically reduce the armed forces - perhaps he might let us have a part-time militia
(3) He's on the record as wanting that - even the Queen knows that
(4) He would almost certainly start immediate negotiations with Argentina to that effect
It might be more accurate to say they are personal positions, rather than official UK Labour Party policy positions, but when the guy is up as the main alternative candidate for Prime Minister, that stuff still matters.
Unless it's about regional economic cooperation and improved trade, which is absolutely up for negotiation.
“We will maintain forever our claim to the Falklands. But our relations with Britain should be broadened.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/11947020/mauricio-macri-argentina-britain-falklands.html0 -
.weejonnie said:
And in which constituency he/she lives.MarkHopkins said:SeanT said:Thought: if immigration, security, defence, crime, and "social cohesion" dominate the 2020 election, and if that election is conducted with Corbyn as Labour leader, Labour could poll around 20%.
I guess we're going to find out what Labour's core vote really is.
0 -
Id like to say Corbyn has destroyed his chances of clinging on as Labour leader. But considering the PLP appear to be a bunch of frightened sheep, I'd suggest he's got a good couple of years in him yet.
When it gets to midterm, minds might be more focussed. But this just continues to be proof that Labour MPs have a pathological fear of defesestrating leaders.0 -
I might quit Facebook. It turns normal sensible people into wankers.JosiasJessop said:
A friend has placed on his FB timeline comparing ISIS's actions in France to Israel.Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: In a crowded field, this is the single most fatuous response to the Paris abominations. https://t.co/enV4xCYK21
His favoured course of action? Dialogue with ISIS.
He just doesn't get it.
I probably include myself in that.0 -
I thought the one of George O so money supermarket from the sun was my keeper but this one is so deeply delicious....RobD said:
Please never changer your avatar. LOL!Scrapheap_as_was said:
Like!!RobD said:Just got off the phone with my broker. Telling me to sell my popcorn shares now, since the market can't get any better
0 -
No - I think they thought it would be a 9 - 13 one.FrancisUrquhart said:
That ship has already sailed. The 1000's of foreign fighters that have traveled to Syria haven't done so thinking they were going on an 18-30 holiday.Roger said:Danny Cohn Bendit (looking like an old man) saying it is unwise to call it a war because it invites people to join the battle. I think he's right
(Then) http://www.freedompress.org.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/Freedom-daniel-cohn-bendit.jpg )
(Now) http://www.chronicle.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Daniel-Cohn-Bendit.jpg0 -
They are hilarious, particularly now they will be forced to work even harder to make the prospect of being the best placed to beat [insert party x] argument seem even remotely plausible. Have they ever gone so dodgy they've gotten in legal trouble over them?AndyJS said:"Lib Dems his by-election campaign trail with classic dodgy bar chart
The Lib Dems have hit the campaign trail in the Oldham West by-election with a classic example of their most fabled vote-winning technique: the leaflet bar chart. The party has a long history of dodgy bar charts – and the latest is one of their best ever."
http://labourlist.org/2015/11/lib-dems-his-by-election-campaign-trail-with-classic-dodgy-bar-chart/0 -
NEW ORDER.
tomorrow...
I could squeam and squeam.0 -
I suspect the deciding factor will be the London mayoral election.numbertwelve said:Id like to say Corbyn has destroyed his chances of clinging on as Labour leader. But considering the PLP appear to be a bunch of frightened sheep, I'd suggest he's got a good couple of years in him yet.
When it gets to midterm, minds might be more focussed. But this just continues to be proof that Labour MPs have a pathological fear of defesestrating leaders.0 -
I'm always going to be amused that I've found myself in the right-wing half of the Labour Party. In particular, I never would've thought I'd be to the right of Nick Palmer, when less than a year ago I would sometimes be debating with him about pro-austerity Miliband & Balls were!kle4 said:
I have this idea that arch-Corbynites rank other Labour members based on where they placed Corbyn on the ballot. A tier 3 Labourite in your case, to be watched closely no doubt, like an EU supporting Tory would be watched in their ranks, but not necessarily a threat. A tier 4 is a traitor, and an unTiered is an actual, no joke, demon in disguise. Tier 2s are welcome to break bread with the purity of the Tier1s, they can be the face to the public, but no more.Danny565 said:
I'm not sure I've really been that big a supporter - I only placed him 3rd on my ballot.SeanT said:
You've been a supporter of Corbyn, IIRC, until now. Do you resile, following his ludicrous and horrible opinions as expressed today?Danny565 said:
Corbyn will not be leader in 2020.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
It's a shame this is flaring up over some serious stuff, as party civil wars seem pretty funny otherwise, I can only hope the Tory one will be hilarious.0 -
Green Party statement: "World leaders must defeat ISIS using the weapon that these terrorists fear most of all: peace talks."
Which is the Corbyn position.
Further clear evidence of the three-quid-reverse-takeover by the watermelons.
0 -
A Labour Party historian on the Sunday Politics a few weeks ago said there was nothing in the rules that suggested this could not happen, once a challenge is launched and a challenger achieves sufficient nominations then Labour rules could well be interpreted to require reopening of nominations for a new ballotsaddened said:
Seriously, we're going over this again?HYUFD said:
He doesn't need to, he would easily get the 20% of MPs required to launch a challenge, even if he does not authorise it, and Corbyn would not get enough MPs to nominate him so Benn would be elected unopposedflightpath01 said:
How does Benn defeat Corbyn in a vote of the Labour / Momentum / Stop the War membership?HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
Ron Paul offers his solution to Paris:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-16/ron-paul-what-should-be-done-about-paris
'Here is the alternative: Focus on trade and friendly relations, stop shipping weapons, abandon “regime change” and other manipulations, respect national sovereignty, and maintain a strong defense at home including protecting the borders from those who may seek to do us harm.
We should abandon the failed policies of the past, before it’s too late.'
-Like I said the other day, for its own good and the good of the world, America needs to recognise it is a power amongst powers; it cannot and should not rule over the entire world. Americanism in one country is what we need. Then the world can move forward.
0 -
This is new:
"Labour MP Keith Vaz would have “no problem” with reintroduction of UK blasphemy laws"
http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2015/11/labour-mp-keith-vaz-would-have-no-problem-with-reintroduction-uk-blasphemy-laws0 -
And a man who has interesting views on the London rioters.Scott_P said:
@elashton: On legality of Emwazi air strike, Corbyn's spokesman says: "There clearly is a question mark over it. That's not in doubt."Scrapheap_as_was said:Actually, Corbynista's are leading the nation... in their prism of the world.
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 14m14 minutes ago
Corbyn spksmn insisted PLP united on overall position on Syria, points out Cameron tday came round to Lab position that coherent plan needed
@Samfr: These tweets make more sense when you remember the spokesman is Seumas Milne. https://t.co/m8SuD2kQtb0 -
Sadly I didn't get there. My other half has got a lurgy.JosiasJessop said:
As if it was January, 1963 ...Casino_Royale said:
How does it feel?antifrank said:Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.
0 -
I would cut health. I cannot believe, even with increasing pressures, that there is no scope for even the most minimal of cutting within it, and yet it is always portrayed as on the verge of collapse no matter what is proposed and more money is always the answer. I doubt I would get elected with such a stance.Casino_Royale said:
In the current climate, I think the public might well accept cuts elsewhere for defence spending.kle4 said:
Isn't there some sort of rule of politics that the more a statement is so bland no person could conceivably disagree with it, the more it conceals something very bitter? Honestly, that is a pretty weaksauce rebuttal, Corbyn spokesman, you must be able to do better than that. Labour has an incredibly robust base of support, the Tories will have been cutting for 10 years in 2020, it should be an open goal for you.Jonathan said:
Good grief. That's meaningless, it's not as if the PM was arguing for an incoherent plan.Scott_P said:@paulwaugh: Corbyn spksmn insisted PLP united on overall position on Syria, points out Cameron tday came round to Lab position that coherent plan needed
Doesn't seem likely. The public won't accept tax rises to pay for it or cuts of the size elsewhere to make up the difference, given the largest available budgets are health and welfare, and as popular as many welfare cuts might be, we seem to have reached the bottom of what has been deemed politically acceptable.Casino_Royale said:
I should add that, IMHO, the issue in this country absolutely is defence spending.Alanbrooke said:
I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.
We should be increasing it.
It's a good job I'm not CoE. I would freeze education, health, international aid and abolish the triple-lock.
On more depressing matters, in my neck of the woods we have definitely moved onto another stage of the 'terror attack response' cycle, with people unprompted seeming angry that some others were reacting to France but not other acts of violence in other parts of the world, ie that even displays of sympathy can be an overreaction, let alone any suggested action. We are well on the way to acting normally again in a week or so.0 -
His purpose is not to be elected PM, it is to take over the labour party, to eat it away from within. When you see how labour have disappeared in Scotland and how useless they are in Wales, the he has a good chance I'd say.SeanT said:
According to reports Corbyn also speculated whether the French were right to bomb the ISIS capital of Raqqa (as they did) in response to the massacre. Which begs the obvious question: In what circumstances would he ever attack Islamist terrorists/terror states in retaliation for attacks on UK citizens?Toms said:
Thanks. Granted, that's pretty bloody bad.Pulpstar said:
Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.
The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".
He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.
"I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.
The implied answer is that Corbyn would NEVER defend Britain in this way.
He is beyond unelectable.0 -
Vaz went on to give contradictory answers about his views, saying that there should not be blasphemy laws in the UK, before adding, "If somebody brings it forward in parliament I'll vote for it… Obviously it depends what's in the bill. But I have no objection to it being brought before parliament and having a debate about it."AndyJS said:This is new:
"Labour MP Keith Vaz would have “no problem” with reintroduction of UK blasphemy laws"
http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2015/11/labour-mp-keith-vaz-would-have-no-problem-with-reintroduction-uk-blasphemy-laws
That's our Keith summed up right there....
Just like he is against the Christmas Coke van due to evil sugar, but then quite happy to open a sweet shop and say nice things about it.0 -
Cooper is politically dead at the moment, she is not even in the Shadow Cabinet for starters and came a poor third in the leadership election. Benn is the only viable alternative, he is Shadow Foreign Secretary and still leftwing enough for the membership not to kick up too much of a fuss if he takes over, as showed yesterday by his reservations on Syrian airstrikes before a political solution and helped by his surname. In the same way the fact Michael Howard was clearly of the right helped Tory members avoid getting too annoyed he replaced IDSMarkHopkins said:
I think Cooper has a reasonable* chance of being Labour leader in 2020. Reasoning:
Corbyn cannot survive like this, he will have to go, even if not immediately.
Burnham has tied himself to Corbyn, so he cannot lead.
A female leader might provide a break from all of this - and she is standing up to the current leadership.
(* For some value of reasonable.)0 -
Blue Monday for the pair of you?antifrank said:
Sadly I didn't get there. My other half has got a lurgy.JosiasJessop said:
As if it was January, 1963 ...Casino_Royale said:
How does it feel?antifrank said:Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.
0 -
I don't think it's a sell out tomorrow.... unlike tonights...antifrank said:
Sadly I didn't get there. My other half has got a lurgy.JosiasJessop said:
As if it was January, 1963 ...Casino_Royale said:
How does it feel?antifrank said:Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.
0 -
"Theresa May: the Paris attacks ‘have nothing to do with Islam’"
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/theresa-may-the-paris-attacks-have-nothing-to-do-with-islam/0 -
I can and shall obey.TheScreamingEagles said:
Blue Monday for the pair of you?antifrank said:
Sadly I didn't get there. My other half has got a lurgy.JosiasJessop said:
As if it was January, 1963 ...Casino_Royale said:
How does it feel?antifrank said:Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.
0 -
Not going over this again.HYUFD said:
A Labour Party historian on the Sunday Politics a few weeks ago said there was nothing in the rules that suggested this could not happen, once a challenge is launched and a challenger achieves sufficient nominations then Labour rules could well be interpreted to require reopening of nominations for a new ballotsaddened said:
Seriously, we're going over this again?HYUFD said:
He doesn't need to, he would easily get the 20% of MPs required to launch a challenge, even if he does not authorise it, and Corbyn would not get enough MPs to nominate him so Benn would be elected unopposedflightpath01 said:
How does Benn defeat Corbyn in a vote of the Labour / Momentum / Stop the War membership?HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
BravoTheScreamingEagles said:
Blue Monday for the pair of you?antifrank said:
Sadly I didn't get there. My other half has got a lurgy.JosiasJessop said:
As if it was January, 1963 ...Casino_Royale said:
How does it feel?antifrank said:Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.
0 -
Beaten by a marxist and a jellyfish.HYUFD said:
Cooper is politically dead at the moment, she is not even in the Shadow Cabinet for starters and came a poor third in the leadership election. Benn is the only viable alternative, he is Shadow Foreign Secretary and still leftwing enough for the membership not to kick up too much of a fuss if he takes over, as showed yesterday by his reservations on Syrian airstrikes before a political solution and helped by his surname. In the same way the fact Michael Howard was clearly of the right helped Tory members avoid getting too annoyed he replaced IDSMarkHopkins said:
I think Cooper has a reasonable* chance of being Labour leader in 2020. Reasoning:
Corbyn cannot survive like this, he will have to go, even if not immediately.
Burnham has tied himself to Corbyn, so he cannot lead.
A female leader might provide a break from all of this - and she is standing up to the current leadership.
(* For some value of reasonable.)
Is it more embarassing than fellating Ed Balls ?0 -
AgreedAndyJS said:
It could happen. Benn has a certain statesmanlike aura about him which most politicians these days sorely lack. I can see him being Labour's equivalent of Michael Howard replacing IDS in 2003.peter_from_putney said:
Please God this happens .... if Benn were then to succeed Cameron as the next Prime Minister, my 949/1 bet then delivers!HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
I generally don't post much on it - and I use it to keep in touch with friends which is good - but I just couldn't resist posting those quotes from Corbyn.Casino_Royale said:
I might quit Facebook. It turns normal sensible people into wankers.JosiasJessop said:
A friend has placed on his FB timeline comparing ISIS's actions in France to Israel.Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: In a crowded field, this is the single most fatuous response to the Paris abominations. https://t.co/enV4xCYK21
His favoured course of action? Dialogue with ISIS.
He just doesn't get it.
I probably include myself in that.0 -
It could be all over in 24hours....0
-
FFS....this is like the "lessons will be learned" response to any scandal.AndyJS said:"Theresa May: the Paris attacks ‘have nothing to do with Islam’"
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/theresa-may-the-paris-attacks-have-nothing-to-do-with-islam/
It has everything to do with Islam*. They are the f##king self proclaimed Islamic State for f##ks sake.
* As posted on previous thread, that doesn't mean all Muslims / strands of Islam.0 -
Requesting Mindbleach....Pulpstar said:
Beaten by a marxist and a jellyfish.HYUFD said:
Cooper is politically dead at the moment, she is not even in the Shadow Cabinet for starters and came a poor third in the leadership election. Benn is the only viable alternative, he is Shadow Foreign Secretary and still leftwing enough for the membership not to kick up too much of a fuss if he takes over, as showed yesterday by his reservations on Syrian airstrikes before a political solution and helped by his surname. In the same way the fact Michael Howard was clearly of the right helped Tory members avoid getting too annoyed he replaced IDSMarkHopkins said:
I think Cooper has a reasonable* chance of being Labour leader in 2020. Reasoning:
Corbyn cannot survive like this, he will have to go, even if not immediately.
Burnham has tied himself to Corbyn, so he cannot lead.
A female leader might provide a break from all of this - and she is standing up to the current leadership.
(* For some value of reasonable.)
Is it more embarassing than fellating Ed Balls ?0 -
Re my avatar
The picture you see is no portrait of me.0 -
Unlike on here, I don't reply. These are people I know, and in some ways respect. Yet they are utter wa*kers over such things.Casino_Royale said:
I might quit Facebook. It turns normal sensible people into wankers.JosiasJessop said:
A friend has placed on his FB timeline comparing ISIS's actions in France to Israel.Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: In a crowded field, this is the single most fatuous response to the Paris abominations. https://t.co/enV4xCYK21
His favoured course of action? Dialogue with ISIS.
He just doesn't get it.
I probably include myself in that.
I mostly just link to stories about trains, coastal walkers, and piccies of my son. Those tend to be rather uncontroversial ...
My friends tend to be rather widespread geographically. If it wasn't for the fact Facebook makes keeping up with them easy, I'd probably quit.0 -
We must have the thickest politicians anywhere.FrancisUrquhart said:
FFS....this is like the "lessons will be learned" response to any scandal.AndyJS said:"Theresa May: the Paris attacks ‘have nothing to do with Islam’"
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/theresa-may-the-paris-attacks-have-nothing-to-do-with-islam/
They all need to "learn leassons" in the bleeding obvious0 -
Macri is a successful former businessman and Mayor of Buenos Aires, unlike Kirchner hopefully he would not screw up the Argentine economy and thus have to rely on the cry to take back the Malvinas!kle4 said:
I'm surprised his people would advocate such a stance with an upcoming election, even if they do indeed mean it and they naturally are not questioning the Argentinian claim in any way - it just seems unnecessary to bring it up.HYUFD said:
“We have to restore this relationship that has been frozen in recent years, as a result of this conflict,” said Fulvio Pompeo, Mr Macri’s most senior foreign policy adviser.Casino_Royale said:
There is nothing* to negotiate unless the Falkland Islanders wish it so.HYUFD said:
If Mauricio Macri wins the Argentine presidency on Sunday he has promised to negotiate with the UK and take a less hostile tone than Kirchner's favoured candidate, Daniel ScioliCasino_Royale said:Are the policy positions inaccurate?
(1) I've never heard Corbyn argue for any restriction on immigration
(2) He wants (at best) to drastically reduce the armed forces - perhaps he might let us have a part-time militia
(3) He's on the record as wanting that - even the Queen knows that
(4) He would almost certainly start immediate negotiations with Argentina to that effect
It might be more accurate to say they are personal positions, rather than official UK Labour Party policy positions, but when the guy is up as the main alternative candidate for Prime Minister, that stuff still matters.
Unless it's about regional economic cooperation and improved trade, which is absolutely up for negotiation.
“We will maintain forever our claim to the Falklands. But our relations with Britain should be broadened.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/11947020/mauricio-macri-argentina-britain-falklands.html
The cynic in me suggests it could be helpful for them to unfreeze the issue a bit, that way they can freeze it again as a distraction later on - keep it up all the time, they have nowhere to go to escalate things short of actual war, which is not on the agenda.0 -
AndyJS said:
"Theresa May: the Paris attacks ‘have nothing to do with Islam’"
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/theresa-may-the-paris-attacks-have-nothing-to-do-with-islam/
And presumably the IRA's bombing campaign had nothing to do with Ireland?
0 -
@rustinpeace00: Abbott at her best. What a wretched state Labour is in... RT @jeremeycorbyn: Lol https://t.co/XZpn3yzeTS0
