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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile in Oldham….

SystemSystem Posts: 12,292
edited 2015 16 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile in Oldham….

I’ve never been convinced by the above style approach to campaigning which is quite common – a mock leaflet that looks as though it has come from your opponent.

Read the full story here


«134567

Comments

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    First!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Are the policy positions inaccurate?

    (1) I've never heard Corbyn argue for any restriction on immigration
    (2) He wants (at best) to drastically reduce the armed forces - perhaps he might let us have a part-time militia
    (3) He's on the record as wanting that - even the Queen knows that
    (4) He would almost certainly start immediate negotiations with Argentina to that effect

    It might be more accurate to say they are personal positions, rather than official UK Labour Party policy positions, but when the guy is up as the main alternative candidate for Prime Minister, that stuff still matters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 16
    I think there will be a new one out shortly along the lines of...

    http://labourlist.org/2015/11/labour-mps-will-not-get-a-free-vote-on-syria-intervention/

    under the headline "Danger to National Security, Good for Manhole Manufacturers"..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    edited 2015 16
    On topic, I agree: there's not an insignificant amount of research on this phenomena to show that voters get confused as to who issued what leaflet. It can also backfire as it can inadvertently raises the profile of the party being attacked, and makes them look busy:

    "Oh, you're the Labour Party candidate? I see you've been busy here but why did you put out a leaflet attacking your own leader?"
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited 2015 16
    The policy positions may not be accurate but they contain more than a grain of truth, which may be enough. Personally I think UKIP would have been better advised to stick more closely to Corbyn's actual words, which are damning enough.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I think there will be a new one out shortly along the lines of...

    http://labourlist.org/2015/11/labour-mps-will-not-get-a-free-vote-on-syria-intervention/

    under the headline "Danger to National Security, Good for Manhole Manufacturers"..

    For the sake of political correctness, shouldn't it be "personhole"?
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    UKIP thinks Corbyn is a negative for LAB – but how much of a negative?


    What an absurd notion... these kippers huh.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,130
    Corbyn could be a huge negative. UKIP just need to poke and prod. If they do it well then he'll be looking like the printed flyleaf, and they'll look like the full-colour brochure.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    antifrank said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I think there will be a new one out shortly along the lines of...

    http://labourlist.org/2015/11/labour-mps-will-not-get-a-free-vote-on-syria-intervention/

    under the headline "Danger to National Security, Good for Manhole Manufacturers"..

    For the sake of political correctness, shouldn't it be "personhole"?
    No
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited 2015 16
    antifrank said:

    Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.

    I'm there tomorrow!!!! Let me know what time they come on please... enjoy! The setlist is epic.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    You know how those diplomatic cables were leaked that stated US weren't too impressed by Cameron, that Osborne had had voice coaching etc, I would love to know what they are saying about Corbyn (especially after todays performance).
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Not as if there's any big events to cover off in PMQs this week.

    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 26m26 minutes ago
    Got a question for @David_Cameron? Help @UKLabour hold @Conservatives to account at #PMQs http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/question-for-david-cameron …
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 16
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Not as if there's any big events to cover off in PMQs this week.

    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 26m26 minutes ago
    Got a question for @David_Cameron? Help @UKLabour hold @Conservatives to account at #PMQs http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/question-for-david-cameron …

    We are especially keen to hear from you if you are previous member of the BNP...

    Given the events of the past few days, is he really going to raise Colin's wait on the NHS to have his ingrowing toenails removed?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited 2015 16
    O/T:

    Karen Armstrong — "Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main source of global terrorism

    Although IS is certainly an Islamic movement, it is neither typical nor mired in the distant past, because its roots are in Wahhabism, a form of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia that developed only in the 18th century."

    http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-isis-how-saudi-arabia-exported-main-source-global-terrorism
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited 2015 16
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Not as if there's any big events to cover off in PMQs this week.

    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 26m26 minutes ago
    Got a question for @David_Cameron? Help @UKLabour hold @Conservatives to account at #PMQs http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/question-for-david-cameron …

    We are especially keen to hear from you if you are previous member of the BNP...

    Given the events of the past few days, is he really going to raise Colin's wait on the NHS to have his ingrowing toenails removed?
    Yes. 'Dur, what shall we ask this week?'
    The loto has the privilege of asking 6 questions because they are his own questions, not someone else's. It's assumed he has the ability and ambition to know himself what are the important issues of the day.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    antifrank said:

    Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.

    How does it feel?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,481
    Is the whole leaflet in the 'Labour' style? If this is just a 'section' then I'm not that bothered. If it's the whole thing it's pretty pathetic by UKIP.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/

    Not really

    http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up

    From the guy that wrote the White Paper
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The policy positions may not be accurate but they contain more than a grain of truth, which may be enough. Personally I think UKIP would have been better advised to stick more closely to Corbyn's actual words, which are damning enough.

    What? And risk others counter quoting err... wossisname, oh yes, Farage.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,047
    FPT
    This point has probably already been made by someone else, but I've always liked how in those polls people apparently trust government ministers to tell the truth more than politicians generally. I guess it's because the consequences of getting caught are higher, making it not worth the risk.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/

    Not really

    http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up

    From the guy that wrote the White Paper
    LOL, did you mean used the toilet paper. Some site , all handful of articles have about 3 comments in total , wonder why. Tumbleweed site.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited 2015 16
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/

    Not really

    http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up

    From the guy that wrote the White Paper
    LOL, did you mean used the toilet paper. Some site , all handful of articles have about 3 comments in total , wonder why. Tumbleweed site.
    Ah, we're adopting a discredit-the-messenger policy today. I see Carnyx has also received the same orders.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,120
    edited 2015 16
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/

    Not really

    http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up

    From the guy that wrote the White Paper
    LOL, did you mean used the toilet paper. Some site , all handful of articles have about 3 comments in total , wonder why. Tumbleweed site.
    Rather more to the point, ScottP appears to be quite wrong on the White Paper as far as one can tell. An advisor, yes, but that [edit: writing the WP] is an exaggeration. His rather unhelpful comment also doesn't address the issues raised by the article.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,693
    I think the pertinent point is Mike's note about the last Oldham by-election.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Is the whole leaflet in the 'Labour' style? If this is just a 'section' then I'm not that bothered. If it's the whole thing it's pretty pathetic by UKIP.

    For some reason that's got me thinking of Vic Reeves on Shooting Stars singing in the 'club style'.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    He's done ONE thing right. And it's the opposite of what his UK oppo would have done. I'm not sure you can yet say he has become a 'very impressive leader'.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    That's a pretty vulgar attempt to use the current tragedy to score political points that I'm sure the man himself would abjure. Bush looked quite the statesman in the aftermath of 9/11 and I'm guessing you don't consider him quite so impressive.

    A 20% approval rating last month is reflective of his performance.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,120
    Anorak said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/

    Not really

    http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up

    From the guy that wrote the White Paper
    LOL, did you mean used the toilet paper. Some site , all handful of articles have about 3 comments in total , wonder why. Tumbleweed site.
    Ah, we're adopting a discredit-the-messenger policy today. I see Carnyx has also received the same orders.
    Complaining about ScottP perhaps, but because he is trying to deflect with irrelevant stuff. The Bella Caledonia piece is very interesting and raises some issues which need to be addressed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,238
    flightpath01 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Not as if there's any big events to cover off in PMQs this week.

    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 26m26 minutes ago
    Got a question for @David_Cameron? Help @UKLabour hold @Conservatives to account at #PMQs http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/question-for-david-cameron …

    We are especially keen to hear from you if you are previous member of the BNP...

    Given the events of the past few days, is he really going to raise Colin's wait on the NHS to have his ingrowing toenails removed?
    Yes. 'Dur, what shall we ask this week?'
    The loto has the privilege of asking 6 questions because they are his own questions, not someone else's. It's assumed he has the ability and ambition to know himself what are the important issues of the day.
    His last attempts would have been effective had they been asked by any other LotO.

    "Can the PM confirm that no one will lose out over tax credits?" Opposition hyperbole and elephant trap all in one - there was nowhere for Cam to go because of course he couldn't and wouldn't be able to confirm that _no one_ would lose out, even I imagine after GO's statement.

    But in the hands of Jezza it evaporated like the morning dew on a midsummer day.

    Lab really do need a proper leader for the sake of the country.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Anorak

    "He's done ONE thing right. And it's the opposite of what his UK oppo would have done. I'm not sure you can yet say he has become a 'very impressive leader'."

    When he first appeared on the scene the same things that are being said about Corbyn here were being said about Hollande. They're not not seeing him like that any more
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    UKIP should have used real quotes from Jihadi Jez and his friends.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carnyx said:

    An advisor, yes, but that [edit: writing the WP] is an exaggeration.

    ALEX Salmond’s former head of policy has said the SNP case for independence is dead.

    Alex Bell, who was tasked with creating a new social model for an independent Scotland between 2010 and 2013, said the economic case presented during the referendum was based on wishful thinking and it is deluded to continue to promote it.
    Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/case-for-independence-dead-former-snp-policy-chief-1-3949549#ixzz3rgQfWXrY
    Follow us: @TheScotsman on Twitter | TheScotsmanNewspaper on Facebook

    So he was head of policy, tasked with creating a new social model, but none of his stuff made it into the White paper...

    Right.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,238
    edited 2015 16
    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    His economic and fiscal policy are still all to cock though.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carnyx said:


    he is trying to deflect with irrelevant stuff. The Bella Caledonia piece is very interesting and raises some issues which need to be addressed.

    Umm no.

    If you read the other piece, you will see that the Bella Caledonia piece is irrelevant
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449
    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    So impressive that he didn't refuse Germany's mad refugee policy and kept an open border for terrorists to cross at will?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @georgeeaton: Labour MP on PLP meeting: "Extraordinary. I've never seen the leader shouted over before."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,120
    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:

    An advisor, yes, but that [edit: writing the WP] is an exaggeration.

    ALEX Salmond’s former head of policy has said the SNP case for independence is dead.

    Alex Bell, who was tasked with creating a new social model for an independent Scotland between 2010 and 2013, said the economic case presented during the referendum was based on wishful thinking and it is deluded to continue to promote it.
    Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/case-for-independence-dead-former-snp-policy-chief-1-3949549#ixzz3rgQfWXrY
    Follow us: @TheScotsman on Twitter | TheScotsmanNewspaper on Facebook

    So he was head of policy, tasked with creating a new social model, but none of his stuff made it into the White paper...

    Right.

    You do realise the stretch in your logic?

    Either you don't or you do, and either way no point in arguing the matter with you. Goodnight.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited 2015 16
    Fpt: Apologies, caught by the new thread:
    foxinsoxuk said:

    On topic:

    Junior doctor retention is down to 59% after 2 years. These are DoH figures from a parliamentary answer:

    http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/education/over-40-of-doctors-lost-after-foundation-year-training/20030428.article

    According to UCAS medical school applications are down 13.5% from 2 years ago.

    Some training schemes, such as General Practice in the East Midlands have half the training places unfilled. We have major problems with recruitment and retention brewing in UK medicine.

    A senior psychiatrist wrote this recently:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/11994836/Our-junior-doctors-are-sick-of-their-uncertain-future.html

    Jeremy Hunt will wage a vicious and misleading spin campaign, after all he does have form with the Murdochs. He may well win a strike, but it will be a pyrrhic victory. He will have few doctors left to command.

    The issues are far more than money. The juniors would happily stay on current pay scales and conditions.

    I said my piece last week. I have never seen such action in my life, and my unit will make appropriate preparations, but take it from me : the juniors are not bluffing.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Alex Bell, who until recently was in charge of writing the Scottish Government’s forthcoming White Paper on independence, said the First Minister was “wrong” for relying on “old songs and tired policies”.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10316878/Alex-Salmond-on-course-for-defeat-in-independence-referendum.html
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Roger said:

    Anorak

    "He's done ONE thing right. And it's the opposite of what his UK oppo would have done. I'm not sure you can yet say he has become a 'very impressive leader'."

    When he first appeared on the scene the same things that are being said about Corbyn here were being said about Hollande. They're not not seeing him like that any more

    No they weren't. No one ever said Hollande was a terrorist-sympathising, pacifist, unilateralist extremist who had been disloyal to his own party throughout his career. Corbyn is in a completely different league of unelectability, who makes Ed Miliband look really good in comparison.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/666322386623537153
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/

    Not really

    http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up

    From the guy that wrote the White Paper
    Yes its all too true.
    But in a nutshell ... Brent crude = $45 / barrel. US crude is just holding above 40. Oil inventories are at a record high.

    On a related topic.
    Strange how ISIS's apologists on the left never claim that their actions are 'all about oil'.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carnyx said:

    no point in arguing the matter with you.

    Zoomer sticks head in sand to avoid hearing unwelcome truth.

    Nothing changes...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    @MSmithsonPB: The front page of the LDs latest focus in Oldham W


    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9BpRXXIAEvtPJ.jpg
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,788
    Scott_P said:

    @georgeeaton: Labour MP on PLP meeting: "Extraordinary. I've never seen the leader shouted over before."

    Not sure hes still the leader of plp still!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: Labour MP describes atmosphere at PLP as "very angry" with Corbyn shouted down. Seumas Milne dismisses this as a "small minority."
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    On topic. The question I have is will UKIP expend the resources to print and deliver these messages to all homes at least 3 times before the postal votes?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/

    Not really

    http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up

    From the guy that wrote the White Paper
    LOL, did you mean used the toilet paper. Some site , all handful of articles have about 3 comments in total , wonder why. Tumbleweed site.
    Rather more to the point, ScottP appears to be quite wrong on the White Paper as far as one can tell. An advisor, yes, but that [edit: writing the WP] is an exaggeration. His rather unhelpful comment also doesn't address the issues raised by the article.
    Carnyx , He is not interested in discussing the topic , he has a blinkered viewpoint to say the least. Typical Tory though, any fabrication will do.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @MSmithsonPB: The front page of the LDs latest focus in Oldham W


    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9BpRXXIAEvtPJ.jpg

    Lib Dem lying bar chart again and Mike complains about UKIP lies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    Casino_Royale said:

    Are the policy positions inaccurate?

    (1) I've never heard Corbyn argue for any restriction on immigration
    (2) He wants (at best) to drastically reduce the armed forces - perhaps he might let us have a part-time militia
    (3) He's on the record as wanting that - even the Queen knows that
    (4) He would almost certainly start immediate negotiations with Argentina to that effect

    It might be more accurate to say they are personal positions, rather than official UK Labour Party policy positions, but when the guy is up as the main alternative candidate for Prime Minister, that stuff still matters.

    If Mauricio Macri wins the Argentine presidency on Sunday he has promised to negotiate with the UK and take a less hostile tone than Kirchner's favoured candidate, Daniel Scioli
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:

    no point in arguing the matter with you.

    Zoomer sticks head in sand to avoid hearing unwelcome truth.

    Nothing changes...
    Loser has nothing to say so resorts to juvenile insults
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,130
    Left or Right there's no absence of sense of country. Something that you care about - albeit wouldn't care to define. Should it ever come to me finding myself on the front line then I'd be happy to see such unlikely fellow defenders as Corbyn and Milliband.

    Hollande isn't anyone's choice as a war leader, but he finds himself there. As a Frenchman defending France I'm sure he'll do well.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/666322386623537153

    Failing to mention the LDs won just 3.7% in Oldham West in May, behind both UKIP and the Tories
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited 2015 16
    SeanT said:

    I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.

    Fancy a bet, Sean?

    What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,481
    Casino_Royale said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Is the whole leaflet in the 'Labour' style? If this is just a 'section' then I'm not that bothered. If it's the whole thing it's pretty pathetic by UKIP.

    For some reason that's got me thinking of Vic Reeves on Shooting Stars singing in the 'club style'.
    Yes, brilliant show!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    SeanT said:

    Pong said:

    SeanT said:

    I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.

    Fancy a bet, Sean?

    What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
    No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.

    Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.

    If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
    Corbyn will not be leader in 2020.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Karen Armstrong — "Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main source of global terrorism

    Although IS is certainly an Islamic movement, it is neither typical nor mired in the distant past, because its roots are in Wahhabism, a form of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia that developed only in the 18th century."

    http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-isis-how-saudi-arabia-exported-main-source-global-terrorism

    An excellent and erudite article. Karen Armstrong is a brilliant and empathetic writer on theology, though ironically is not a believer herself. I have several of her books, and in particular her "a History of God" which looks at the theological developments in theology between the 3 abrahamic monotheisms.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    OT. Nigel Farage absolutely on the button. The most dangerous nation in the Arab world is Saudi Arabia and we should stop dealing with them immediately.

    (He then went on to say we shouldn't take refugees come what may but at least he started well)
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Pong said:

    SeanT said:

    I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.

    Fancy a bet, Sean?

    What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
    I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports him
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: Labour MP. "Corbyn has a counsel of doing nothing. He can't think of terrorism as anything other than a response to the West."

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Labour MP. "Corbyn has a counsel of doing nothing. He can't think of terrorism as anything other than a response to the West."

    sounds accurate but isn't it nice to be clear on what the leader's position is at least... what a breath of fresh air.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    Meanwhile in Westminster.

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 1m1 minute ago
    John Mann told Corbyn his neice, a Lab party member, was locked in Paris toilet for 3 hrs 'thinking she was going to be murdered'.

    Nevermind Oldham, Corbyn ought to be on his way out.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    I'm make an acception and post this from DC..

    Douglas Carswell MP ‏@DouglasCarswell now4 seconds ago
    I think the full implications of Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader are sinking in to the Labour Parliamentary party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    flightpath01 said:

    Pong said:

    SeanT said:

    I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.

    Fancy a bet, Sean?

    What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
    I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports him
    I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seat
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    SeanT said:

    Pong said:

    SeanT said:

    I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.

    Fancy a bet, Sean?

    What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
    No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.

    Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.

    If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
    It was 25/1 on betfair, anyway. I was hoping to arb ye ;)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,817
    @SeanT Not been online today. What has Corbyn said that has pushed you over the edge?

    I heard about the manhole thing, but assume that's not it.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I'm make an acception and post this from DC..

    Douglas Carswell MP ‏@DouglasCarswell now4 seconds ago
    I think the full implications of Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader are sinking in to the Labour Parliamentary party.

    Why did the PLP allow themselves to nominate him?
    I think if the PLP can be so stupid, imagine what would they do to the country. It's not as if any alternative to labour would be very clever either. Corbyn's three rivals all looked pretty stupid. I
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited 2015 16
    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.
    Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?

    If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.

    Just theorising.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    SeanT said:

    flightpath01 said:

    Pong said:

    SeanT said:

    I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.

    Fancy a bet, Sean?

    What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
    I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports him
    If I ever meet NPXMP in person I will politely spit fine wine in his silly face. Seamus Milne I would punch.
    To be honest I'm sorry I put temptation in harms way to offer you the chance to say that.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Danny Cohn Bendit (looking like an old man) saying it is unwise to call it a war because it invites people to join the battle. I think he's right

    (Then) http://www.freedompress.org.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/Freedom-daniel-cohn-bendit.jpg )

    (Now) http://www.chronicle.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Daniel-Cohn-Bendit.jpg
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    Toms said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.
    Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?

    If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.

    Just theorising.
    Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.

    The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".

    He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.

    "I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,013
    On topic, I don't think the colours are particularly relevant. What matters is whether people read it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 16
    Roger said:

    Danny Cohn Bendit (looking like an old man) saying it is unwise to call it a war because it invites people to join the battle. I think he's right

    (Then) http://www.freedompress.org.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/Freedom-daniel-cohn-bendit.jpg )

    (Now) http://www.chronicle.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Daniel-Cohn-Bendit.jpg

    That ship has already sailed. The 1000's of foreign fighters that have traveled to Syria haven't done so thinking they were going on an 18-30 holiday.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    HYUFD said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Are the policy positions inaccurate?

    (1) I've never heard Corbyn argue for any restriction on immigration
    (2) He wants (at best) to drastically reduce the armed forces - perhaps he might let us have a part-time militia
    (3) He's on the record as wanting that - even the Queen knows that
    (4) He would almost certainly start immediate negotiations with Argentina to that effect

    It might be more accurate to say they are personal positions, rather than official UK Labour Party policy positions, but when the guy is up as the main alternative candidate for Prime Minister, that stuff still matters.

    If Mauricio Macri wins the Argentine presidency on Sunday he has promised to negotiate with the UK and take a less hostile tone than Kirchner's favoured candidate, Daniel Scioli
    There is nothing* to negotiate unless the Falkland Islanders wish it so.

    Unless it's about regional economic cooperation and improved trade, which is absolutely up for negotiation.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Roger said:

    Danny Cohn Bendit (looking like an old man) saying it is unwise to call it a war because it invites people to join the battle. I think he's right

    (Then) http://www.freedompress.org.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/Freedom-daniel-cohn-bendit.jpg )

    (Now) http://www.chronicle.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Daniel-Cohn-Bendit.jpg

    One numpty quoting another. Please tell ISIS its not a war.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    SeanT said:

    Pong said:

    SeanT said:

    I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.

    Fancy a bet, Sean?

    What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
    No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.

    Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.

    If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
    Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.

    Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited 2015 16
    He said that he wouldn't support British police shooting terrorists on the streets in the event of an attack.
    Toms said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.
    Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?

    If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.

    Just theorising.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Pulpstar said:

    Toms said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.
    Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?

    If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.

    Just theorising.
    Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.

    The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".

    He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.

    "I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.
    Thanks. Granted, that's pretty bloody bad.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    HYUFD said:

    flightpath01 said:

    Pong said:

    SeanT said:

    I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.

    Fancy a bet, Sean?

    What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
    I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports him
    I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seat
    How does Benn defeat Corbyn in a vote of the Labour / Momentum / Stop the War membership?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Corbyn hasn't exactly covered himself with glory again today has he?

    Trust the country to this man and his bunch of hard left cronies and clowns, no thanks.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    AndyJS said:

    He said that he wouldn't support British police shooting terrorists on the streets in the event of an attack.

    Toms said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.
    Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?

    If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.

    Just theorising.
    He clearly believes that the police should engage in dialogue with the terrorists mid rampage.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439

    If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    MP_SE said:

    AndyJS said:

    He said that he wouldn't support British police shooting terrorists on the streets in the event of an attack.

    Toms said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.
    Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?

    If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.

    Just theorising.
    He clearly believes that the police should engage in dialogue with the terrorists mid rampage.
    https://twitter.com/GeneralBoles/status/666305819886120961
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    https://twitter.com/BBCEleanorG/status/666338928379764736

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/666340297576718337
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited 2015 16
    Labour had a lucky escape, nearly voted in a tory as leader!

    Kevin Schofield ‏@PolhomeEditor 10m10 minutes ago
    Yvette Cooper was among those who criticised @jeremycorbyn for saying he opposed shoot-to-kill for terrorists.

    Kevin Schofield ‏@PolhomeEditor 15m15 minutes ago
    Tonight's PLP was brutal for @jeremycorbyn. One MP: "I've never seen that level of discontent. I've never seen the PLP so angry."
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,738
    Casino_Royale said:

    To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439

    If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.

    I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Alanbrooke said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439

    If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.

    I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..
    What do you doubt?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    PMQs. Random Tory Backbencher. 1st question. "Does the PM agree with me that the greatest threat to our National Security is on the opposition front bench?

    PM rips into Corbyn, who then stands up

    "I have a question from Dorris about Tax Credits..."
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842
    Casino_Royale said:

    SeanT said:

    Pong said:

    SeanT said:

    I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.

    Fancy a bet, Sean?

    What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
    No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.

    Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.

    If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
    Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.

    Corbyn has called this badly wrong.

    It is not a matter of calling it, he is saying what he believes. What he believes, though, makes him unelectable. But this is what Labour wants.

  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    And to think that if Labour had won the general election six months ago, Jeremy Corbyn would now be Prime Minister.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Toms said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Toms said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.
    Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?

    If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.

    Just theorising.
    Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.

    The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".

    He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.

    "I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.
    Thanks. Granted, that's pretty bloody bad.
    The point is that a prompt and ruthless response to any attack like that in Paris (or the earlier one in Mumbai) is the only one if such attacks are to be contained and minimised. The harsh fact is that once underway its too late for much else and loss of life is going to be severe. Unfortunately the left do not want to give our intelligence services to the tools they need and a few Tory back bench numpties are just as bad.
    Corbyn's prevarication on these issues are self evidently a symptom of his unsuitability for office.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,876
    It's an accurate representation of Jeremy Corbyn's own views.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Labour had a lucky escape, nearly voted in a tory as leader!

    Kevin Schofield ‏@PolhomeEditor 10m10 minutes ago
    Yvette Cooper was among those who criticised @jeremycorbyn for saying he opposed shoot-to-kill for terrorists.

    Kevin Schofield ‏@PolhomeEditor 15m15 minutes ago
    Tonight's PLP was brutal for @jeremycorbyn. One MP: "I've never seen that level of discontent. I've never seen the PLP so angry."

    Corbyn is Labours own suicide bomber. He will take the whole party to hell with him.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,233
    Just got off the phone with my broker. Telling me to sell my popcorn shares now, since the market can't get any better :D
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,738
    edited 2015 16
    Casino_Royale said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439

    If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.

    I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..
    What do you doubt?
    The french mainstream is currently on catch up with Le Pen. A sudden swing in her direction wont stop her getting in to the presidential runoffs.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    SeanT said:

    Toms said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Toms said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.

    It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.
    Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?

    If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.

    Just theorising.
    Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.

    The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".

    He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.

    "I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.
    Thanks. Granted, that's pretty bloody bad.
    According to reports Corbyn also speculated whether the French were right to bomb the ISIS capital of Raqqa (as they did) in response to the massacre. Which begs the obvious question: In what circumstances would he ever attack Islamist terrorists/terror states in retaliation for attacks on UK citizens?

    The implied answer is that Corbyn would NEVER defend Britain in this way.

    He is beyond unelectable.
    Actually, it's beyond funny now. As a pbTory, I don't care whether him remaining as Labour leader helps the Tories from a narrowly partisan perspective in GE2020 anymore.

    He's a danger to this country, and a traitor. He in no way deserves to be leader of HM Opposition and is constantly debasing the office and our reputation overseas.

    I want him out.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    HYUFD said:

    flightpath01 said:

    Pong said:

    SeanT said:

    I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.

    Fancy a bet, Sean?

    What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
    I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports him
    I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seat
    Please God this happens .... if Benn were then to succeed Cameron as the next Prime Minister, my 949/1 bet then delivers!
This discussion has been closed.