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I’ve never been convinced by the above style approach to campaigning which is quite common – a mock leaflet that looks as though it has come from your opponent.
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First!0
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Are the policy positions inaccurate?
(1) I've never heard Corbyn argue for any restriction on immigration
(2) He wants (at best) to drastically reduce the armed forces - perhaps he might let us have a part-time militia
(3) He's on the record as wanting that - even the Queen knows that
(4) He would almost certainly start immediate negotiations with Argentina to that effect
It might be more accurate to say they are personal positions, rather than official UK Labour Party policy positions, but when the guy is up as the main alternative candidate for Prime Minister, that stuff still matters.0 -
I think there will be a new one out shortly along the lines of...
http://labourlist.org/2015/11/labour-mps-will-not-get-a-free-vote-on-syria-intervention/
under the headline "Danger to National Security, Good for Manhole Manufacturers"..0 -
On topic, I agree: there's not an insignificant amount of research on this phenomena to show that voters get confused as to who issued what leaflet. It can also backfire as it can inadvertently raises the profile of the party being attacked, and makes them look busy:
"Oh, you're the Labour Party candidate? I see you've been busy here but why did you put out a leaflet attacking your own leader?"0 -
The policy positions may not be accurate but they contain more than a grain of truth, which may be enough. Personally I think UKIP would have been better advised to stick more closely to Corbyn's actual words, which are damning enough.0
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Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/0 -
For the sake of political correctness, shouldn't it be "personhole"?FrancisUrquhart said:I think there will be a new one out shortly along the lines of...
http://labourlist.org/2015/11/labour-mps-will-not-get-a-free-vote-on-syria-intervention/
under the headline "Danger to National Security, Good for Manhole Manufacturers"..0 -
UKIP thinks Corbyn is a negative for LAB – but how much of a negative?
What an absurd notion... these kippers huh.0 -
Corbyn could be a huge negative. UKIP just need to poke and prod. If they do it well then he'll be looking like the printed flyleaf, and they'll look like the full-colour brochure.
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Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.0
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Noantifrank said:
For the sake of political correctness, shouldn't it be "personhole"?FrancisUrquhart said:I think there will be a new one out shortly along the lines of...
http://labourlist.org/2015/11/labour-mps-will-not-get-a-free-vote-on-syria-intervention/
under the headline "Danger to National Security, Good for Manhole Manufacturers"..0 -
I'm there tomorrow!!!! Let me know what time they come on please... enjoy! The setlist is epic.antifrank said:Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.
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You know how those diplomatic cables were leaked that stated US weren't too impressed by Cameron, that Osborne had had voice coaching etc, I would love to know what they are saying about Corbyn (especially after todays performance).0
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Not as if there's any big events to cover off in PMQs this week.
Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 26m26 minutes ago
Got a question for @David_Cameron? Help @UKLabour hold @Conservatives to account at #PMQs http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/question-for-david-cameron …0 -
We are especially keen to hear from you if you are previous member of the BNP...Scrapheap_as_was said:Not as if there's any big events to cover off in PMQs this week.
Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 26m26 minutes ago
Got a question for @David_Cameron? Help @UKLabour hold @Conservatives to account at #PMQs http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/question-for-david-cameron …
Given the events of the past few days, is he really going to raise Colin's wait on the NHS to have his ingrowing toenails removed?0 -
O/T:
Karen Armstrong — "Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main source of global terrorism
Although IS is certainly an Islamic movement, it is neither typical nor mired in the distant past, because its roots are in Wahhabism, a form of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia that developed only in the 18th century."
http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-isis-how-saudi-arabia-exported-main-source-global-terrorism0 -
Yes. 'Dur, what shall we ask this week?'FrancisUrquhart said:
We are especially keen to hear from you if you are previous member of the BNP...Scrapheap_as_was said:Not as if there's any big events to cover off in PMQs this week.
Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 26m26 minutes ago
Got a question for @David_Cameron? Help @UKLabour hold @Conservatives to account at #PMQs http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/question-for-david-cameron …
Given the events of the past few days, is he really going to raise Colin's wait on the NHS to have his ingrowing toenails removed?
The loto has the privilege of asking 6 questions because they are his own questions, not someone else's. It's assumed he has the ability and ambition to know himself what are the important issues of the day.0 -
How does it feel?antifrank said:Anyway, tonight I'm off to consider a very different State of the Nation, courtesy of New Order.
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Is the whole leaflet in the 'Labour' style? If this is just a 'section' then I'm not that bothered. If it's the whole thing it's pretty pathetic by UKIP.0
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Not reallymalcolmg said:Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/
http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up
From the guy that wrote the White Paper0 -
What? And risk others counter quoting err... wossisname, oh yes, Farage.Richard_Nabavi said:The policy positions may not be accurate but they contain more than a grain of truth, which may be enough. Personally I think UKIP would have been better advised to stick more closely to Corbyn's actual words, which are damning enough.
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FPT
This point has probably already been made by someone else, but I've always liked how in those polls people apparently trust government ministers to tell the truth more than politicians generally. I guess it's because the consequences of getting caught are higher, making it not worth the risk.0 -
LOL, did you mean used the toilet paper. Some site , all handful of articles have about 3 comments in total , wonder why. Tumbleweed site.Scott_P said:
Not reallymalcolmg said:Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/
http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up
From the guy that wrote the White Paper0 -
Ah, we're adopting a discredit-the-messenger policy today. I see Carnyx has also received the same orders.malcolmg said:
LOL, did you mean used the toilet paper. Some site , all handful of articles have about 3 comments in total , wonder why. Tumbleweed site.Scott_P said:
Not reallymalcolmg said:Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/
http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up
From the guy that wrote the White Paper0 -
Rather more to the point, ScottP appears to be quite wrong on the White Paper as far as one can tell. An advisor, yes, but that [edit: writing the WP] is an exaggeration. His rather unhelpful comment also doesn't address the issues raised by the article.malcolmg said:
LOL, did you mean used the toilet paper. Some site , all handful of articles have about 3 comments in total , wonder why. Tumbleweed site.Scott_P said:
Not reallymalcolmg said:Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/
http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up
From the guy that wrote the White Paper0 -
Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.0
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I think the pertinent point is Mike's note about the last Oldham by-election.0
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For some reason that's got me thinking of Vic Reeves on Shooting Stars singing in the 'club style'.Luckyguy1983 said:Is the whole leaflet in the 'Labour' style? If this is just a 'section' then I'm not that bothered. If it's the whole thing it's pretty pathetic by UKIP.
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He's done ONE thing right. And it's the opposite of what his UK oppo would have done. I'm not sure you can yet say he has become a 'very impressive leader'.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
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That's a pretty vulgar attempt to use the current tragedy to score political points that I'm sure the man himself would abjure. Bush looked quite the statesman in the aftermath of 9/11 and I'm guessing you don't consider him quite so impressive.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
A 20% approval rating last month is reflective of his performance.0 -
Complaining about ScottP perhaps, but because he is trying to deflect with irrelevant stuff. The Bella Caledonia piece is very interesting and raises some issues which need to be addressed.Anorak said:
Ah, we're adopting a discredit-the-messenger policy today. I see Carnyx has also received the same orders.malcolmg said:
LOL, did you mean used the toilet paper. Some site , all handful of articles have about 3 comments in total , wonder why. Tumbleweed site.Scott_P said:
Not reallymalcolmg said:Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/
http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up
From the guy that wrote the White Paper0 -
His last attempts would have been effective had they been asked by any other LotO.flightpath01 said:
Yes. 'Dur, what shall we ask this week?'FrancisUrquhart said:
We are especially keen to hear from you if you are previous member of the BNP...Scrapheap_as_was said:Not as if there's any big events to cover off in PMQs this week.
Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 26m26 minutes ago
Got a question for @David_Cameron? Help @UKLabour hold @Conservatives to account at #PMQs http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/question-for-david-cameron …
Given the events of the past few days, is he really going to raise Colin's wait on the NHS to have his ingrowing toenails removed?
The loto has the privilege of asking 6 questions because they are his own questions, not someone else's. It's assumed he has the ability and ambition to know himself what are the important issues of the day.
"Can the PM confirm that no one will lose out over tax credits?" Opposition hyperbole and elephant trap all in one - there was nowhere for Cam to go because of course he couldn't and wouldn't be able to confirm that _no one_ would lose out, even I imagine after GO's statement.
But in the hands of Jezza it evaporated like the morning dew on a midsummer day.
Lab really do need a proper leader for the sake of the country.0 -
Anorak
"He's done ONE thing right. And it's the opposite of what his UK oppo would have done. I'm not sure you can yet say he has become a 'very impressive leader'."
When he first appeared on the scene the same things that are being said about Corbyn here were being said about Hollande. They're not not seeing him like that any more
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UKIP should have used real quotes from Jihadi Jez and his friends.0
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Carnyx said:
An advisor, yes, but that [edit: writing the WP] is an exaggeration.
ALEX Salmond’s former head of policy has said the SNP case for independence is dead.
Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/case-for-independence-dead-former-snp-policy-chief-1-3949549#ixzz3rgQfWXrY
Alex Bell, who was tasked with creating a new social model for an independent Scotland between 2010 and 2013, said the economic case presented during the referendum was based on wishful thinking and it is deluded to continue to promote it.
Follow us: @TheScotsman on Twitter | TheScotsmanNewspaper on Facebook
So he was head of policy, tasked with creating a new social model, but none of his stuff made it into the White paper...
Right.0 -
@georgeeaton: Labour MP on PLP meeting: "Extraordinary. I've never seen the leader shouted over before."0
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Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/case-for-independence-dead-former-snp-policy-chief-1-3949549#ixzz3rgQfWXrYScott_P said:Carnyx said:An advisor, yes, but that [edit: writing the WP] is an exaggeration.
ALEX Salmond’s former head of policy has said the SNP case for independence is dead.
Alex Bell, who was tasked with creating a new social model for an independent Scotland between 2010 and 2013, said the economic case presented during the referendum was based on wishful thinking and it is deluded to continue to promote it.
Follow us: @TheScotsman on Twitter | TheScotsmanNewspaper on Facebook
So he was head of policy, tasked with creating a new social model, but none of his stuff made it into the White paper...
Right.
You do realise the stretch in your logic?
Either you don't or you do, and either way no point in arguing the matter with you. Goodnight.
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Fpt: Apologies, caught by the new thread:foxinsoxuk said:
On topic:
Junior doctor retention is down to 59% after 2 years. These are DoH figures from a parliamentary answer:
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/education/over-40-of-doctors-lost-after-foundation-year-training/20030428.article
According to UCAS medical school applications are down 13.5% from 2 years ago.
Some training schemes, such as General Practice in the East Midlands have half the training places unfilled. We have major problems with recruitment and retention brewing in UK medicine.
A senior psychiatrist wrote this recently:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/11994836/Our-junior-doctors-are-sick-of-their-uncertain-future.html
Jeremy Hunt will wage a vicious and misleading spin campaign, after all he does have form with the Murdochs. He may well win a strike, but it will be a pyrrhic victory. He will have few doctors left to command.
The issues are far more than money. The juniors would happily stay on current pay scales and conditions.
I said my piece last week. I have never seen such action in my life, and my unit will make appropriate preparations, but take it from me : the juniors are not bluffing.0 -
Alex Bell, who until recently was in charge of writing the Scottish Government’s forthcoming White Paper on independence, said the First Minister was “wrong” for relying on “old songs and tired policies”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10316878/Alex-Salmond-on-course-for-defeat-in-independence-referendum.html0 -
No they weren't. No one ever said Hollande was a terrorist-sympathising, pacifist, unilateralist extremist who had been disloyal to his own party throughout his career. Corbyn is in a completely different league of unelectability, who makes Ed Miliband look really good in comparison.Roger said:Anorak
"He's done ONE thing right. And it's the opposite of what his UK oppo would have done. I'm not sure you can yet say he has become a 'very impressive leader'."
When he first appeared on the scene the same things that are being said about Corbyn here were being said about Hollande. They're not not seeing him like that any more0 -
Yes its all too true.Scott_P said:
Not reallymalcolmg said:Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/
http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up
From the guy that wrote the White Paper
But in a nutshell ... Brent crude = $45 / barrel. US crude is just holding above 40. Oil inventories are at a record high.
On a related topic.
Strange how ISIS's apologists on the left never claim that their actions are 'all about oil'.0 -
@MSmithsonPB: The front page of the LDs latest focus in Oldham W
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9BpRXXIAEvtPJ.jpg0 -
Not sure hes still the leader of plp still!Scott_P said:@georgeeaton: Labour MP on PLP meeting: "Extraordinary. I've never seen the leader shouted over before."
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@PickardJE: Labour MP describes atmosphere at PLP as "very angry" with Corbyn shouted down. Seumas Milne dismisses this as a "small minority."0
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On topic. The question I have is will UKIP expend the resources to print and deliver these messages to all homes at least 3 times before the postal votes?0
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Carnyx , He is not interested in discussing the topic , he has a blinkered viewpoint to say the least. Typical Tory though, any fabrication will do.Carnyx said:
Rather more to the point, ScottP appears to be quite wrong on the White Paper as far as one can tell. An advisor, yes, but that [edit: writing the WP] is an exaggeration. His rather unhelpful comment also doesn't address the issues raised by the article.malcolmg said:
LOL, did you mean used the toilet paper. Some site , all handful of articles have about 3 comments in total , wonder why. Tumbleweed site.Scott_P said:
Not reallymalcolmg said:Interesting article of the reality of the Smith Commission for those not au fait with Scottish matters. Still all to play for.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/
http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up
From the guy that wrote the White Paper0 -
Lib Dem lying bar chart again and Mike complains about UKIP lies.TheScreamingEagles said:@MSmithsonPB: The front page of the LDs latest focus in Oldham W
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9BpRXXIAEvtPJ.jpg0 -
If Mauricio Macri wins the Argentine presidency on Sunday he has promised to negotiate with the UK and take a less hostile tone than Kirchner's favoured candidate, Daniel ScioliCasino_Royale said:Are the policy positions inaccurate?
(1) I've never heard Corbyn argue for any restriction on immigration
(2) He wants (at best) to drastically reduce the armed forces - perhaps he might let us have a part-time militia
(3) He's on the record as wanting that - even the Queen knows that
(4) He would almost certainly start immediate negotiations with Argentina to that effect
It might be more accurate to say they are personal positions, rather than official UK Labour Party policy positions, but when the guy is up as the main alternative candidate for Prime Minister, that stuff still matters.0 -
Left or Right there's no absence of sense of country. Something that you care about - albeit wouldn't care to define. Should it ever come to me finding myself on the front line then I'd be happy to see such unlikely fellow defenders as Corbyn and Milliband.
Hollande isn't anyone's choice as a war leader, but he finds himself there. As a Frenchman defending France I'm sure he'll do well.0 -
Failing to mention the LDs won just 3.7% in Oldham West in May, behind both UKIP and the ToriesTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Yes, brilliant show!Casino_Royale said:
For some reason that's got me thinking of Vic Reeves on Shooting Stars singing in the 'club style'.Luckyguy1983 said:Is the whole leaflet in the 'Labour' style? If this is just a 'section' then I'm not that bothered. If it's the whole thing it's pretty pathetic by UKIP.
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Corbyn will not be leader in 2020.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.0 -
An excellent and erudite article. Karen Armstrong is a brilliant and empathetic writer on theology, though ironically is not a believer herself. I have several of her books, and in particular her "a History of God" which looks at the theological developments in theology between the 3 abrahamic monotheisms.AndyJS said:O/T:
Karen Armstrong — "Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main source of global terrorism
Although IS is certainly an Islamic movement, it is neither typical nor mired in the distant past, because its roots are in Wahhabism, a form of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia that developed only in the 18th century."
http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-isis-how-saudi-arabia-exported-main-source-global-terrorism0 -
OT. Nigel Farage absolutely on the button. The most dangerous nation in the Arab world is Saudi Arabia and we should stop dealing with them immediately.
(He then went on to say we shouldn't take refugees come what may but at least he started well)0 -
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
@PickardJE: Labour MP. "Corbyn has a counsel of doing nothing. He can't think of terrorism as anything other than a response to the West."
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sounds accurate but isn't it nice to be clear on what the leader's position is at least... what a breath of fresh air.Scott_P said:@PickardJE: Labour MP. "Corbyn has a counsel of doing nothing. He can't think of terrorism as anything other than a response to the West."
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Meanwhile in Westminster.
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 1m1 minute ago
John Mann told Corbyn his neice, a Lab party member, was locked in Paris toilet for 3 hrs 'thinking she was going to be murdered'.
Nevermind Oldham, Corbyn ought to be on his way out.0 -
I'm make an acception and post this from DC..
Douglas Carswell MP @DouglasCarswell now4 seconds ago
I think the full implications of Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader are sinking in to the Labour Parliamentary party.0 -
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
It was 25/1 on betfair, anyway. I was hoping to arb yeSeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
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Why did the PLP allow themselves to nominate him?Scrapheap_as_was said:I'm make an acception and post this from DC..
Douglas Carswell MP @DouglasCarswell now4 seconds ago
I think the full implications of Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader are sinking in to the Labour Parliamentary party.
I think if the PLP can be so stupid, imagine what would they do to the country. It's not as if any alternative to labour would be very clever either. Corbyn's three rivals all looked pretty stupid. I0 -
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.0 -
To be honest I'm sorry I put temptation in harms way to offer you the chance to say that.SeanT said:
If I ever meet NPXMP in person I will politely spit fine wine in his silly face. Seamus Milne I would punch.flightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
Danny Cohn Bendit (looking like an old man) saying it is unwise to call it a war because it invites people to join the battle. I think he's right
(Then) http://www.freedompress.org.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/Freedom-daniel-cohn-bendit.jpg )
(Now) http://www.chronicle.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Daniel-Cohn-Bendit.jpg0 -
Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.
The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".
He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.
"I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.0 -
On topic, I don't think the colours are particularly relevant. What matters is whether people read it.0
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That ship has already sailed. The 1000's of foreign fighters that have traveled to Syria haven't done so thinking they were going on an 18-30 holiday.Roger said:Danny Cohn Bendit (looking like an old man) saying it is unwise to call it a war because it invites people to join the battle. I think he's right
(Then) http://www.freedompress.org.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/Freedom-daniel-cohn-bendit.jpg )
(Now) http://www.chronicle.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Daniel-Cohn-Bendit.jpg0 -
There is nothing* to negotiate unless the Falkland Islanders wish it so.HYUFD said:
If Mauricio Macri wins the Argentine presidency on Sunday he has promised to negotiate with the UK and take a less hostile tone than Kirchner's favoured candidate, Daniel ScioliCasino_Royale said:Are the policy positions inaccurate?
(1) I've never heard Corbyn argue for any restriction on immigration
(2) He wants (at best) to drastically reduce the armed forces - perhaps he might let us have a part-time militia
(3) He's on the record as wanting that - even the Queen knows that
(4) He would almost certainly start immediate negotiations with Argentina to that effect
It might be more accurate to say they are personal positions, rather than official UK Labour Party policy positions, but when the guy is up as the main alternative candidate for Prime Minister, that stuff still matters.
Unless it's about regional economic cooperation and improved trade, which is absolutely up for negotiation.0 -
One numpty quoting another. Please tell ISIS its not a war.Roger said:Danny Cohn Bendit (looking like an old man) saying it is unwise to call it a war because it invites people to join the battle. I think he's right
(Then) http://www.freedompress.org.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/Freedom-daniel-cohn-bendit.jpg )
(Now) http://www.chronicle.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Daniel-Cohn-Bendit.jpg0 -
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.0 -
He said that he wouldn't support British police shooting terrorists on the streets in the event of an attack.Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.0 -
Thanks. Granted, that's pretty bloody bad.Pulpstar said:
Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.
The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".
He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.
"I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.0 -
How does Benn defeat Corbyn in a vote of the Labour / Momentum / Stop the War membership?HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0 -
Corbyn hasn't exactly covered himself with glory again today has he?
Trust the country to this man and his bunch of hard left cronies and clowns, no thanks.0 -
He clearly believes that the police should engage in dialogue with the terrorists mid rampage.AndyJS said:He said that he wouldn't support British police shooting terrorists on the streets in the event of an attack.
Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.0 -
To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.0 -
https://twitter.com/GeneralBoles/status/666305819886120961MP_SE said:
He clearly believes that the police should engage in dialogue with the terrorists mid rampage.AndyJS said:He said that he wouldn't support British police shooting terrorists on the streets in the event of an attack.
Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.0 -
Labour had a lucky escape, nearly voted in a tory as leader!
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 10m10 minutes ago
Yvette Cooper was among those who criticised @jeremycorbyn for saying he opposed shoot-to-kill for terrorists.
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 15m15 minutes ago
Tonight's PLP was brutal for @jeremycorbyn. One MP: "I've never seen that level of discontent. I've never seen the PLP so angry."0 -
I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.
0 -
What do you doubt?Alanbrooke said:
I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.0 -
PMQs. Random Tory Backbencher. 1st question. "Does the PM agree with me that the greatest threat to our National Security is on the opposition front bench?
PM rips into Corbyn, who then stands up
"I have a question from Dorris about Tax Credits..."0 -
It is not a matter of calling it, he is saying what he believes. What he believes, though, makes him unelectable. But this is what Labour wants.Casino_Royale said:
Seeing even the solidly left-wing tyson respond with fortitude to these attacks over the weekend was quite a wake-up call for me. I note that even Roger has not tried to defend it.SeanT said:
No bet. I reckon Corbyn will finesse the remarks and do just enough to stay in position, while remaining, quite clearly, a quisling c*nt.Pong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?
Labour are entirely doomed in 2020 tho. I've got lefty friends (NOT the usual grumpy suspects) emailing and tweeting me their violent contempt of his opinions.
If the Tories replace Cameron with a noticeably priapic orang utan they would still beat Corbyn's :Lbour.
Corbyn has called this badly wrong.
0 -
And to think that if Labour had won the general election six months ago, Jeremy Corbyn would now be Prime Minister.0
-
The point is that a prompt and ruthless response to any attack like that in Paris (or the earlier one in Mumbai) is the only one if such attacks are to be contained and minimised. The harsh fact is that once underway its too late for much else and loss of life is going to be severe. Unfortunately the left do not want to give our intelligence services to the tools they need and a few Tory back bench numpties are just as bad.Toms said:
Thanks. Granted, that's pretty bloody bad.Pulpstar said:
Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.
The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".
He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.
"I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.
Corbyn's prevarication on these issues are self evidently a symptom of his unsuitability for office.0 -
It's an accurate representation of Jeremy Corbyn's own views.0
-
Corbyn is Labours own suicide bomber. He will take the whole party to hell with him.Scrapheap_as_was said:Labour had a lucky escape, nearly voted in a tory as leader!
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 10m10 minutes ago
Yvette Cooper was among those who criticised @jeremycorbyn for saying he opposed shoot-to-kill for terrorists.
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 15m15 minutes ago
Tonight's PLP was brutal for @jeremycorbyn. One MP: "I've never seen that level of discontent. I've never seen the PLP so angry."0 -
Just got off the phone with my broker. Telling me to sell my popcorn shares now, since the market can't get any better
0 -
The french mainstream is currently on catch up with Le Pen. A sudden swing in her direction wont stop her getting in to the presidential runoffs.Casino_Royale said:
What do you doubt?Alanbrooke said:
I somehow doubt it. The issue isn't defence spending..Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I think Hollande is being even harder than Cameron would be - "France will destroy IS". I also note "no new cuts in the defence budget", whereas I think parts of the armed forces will be proposed to be cut next week in the UK to fund others:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34836439
If all of the mainstream French politicians swing to the Right on security, defence and immigration, that should lock Le Pen out fairly comfortably.0 -
Actually, it's beyond funny now. As a pbTory, I don't care whether him remaining as Labour leader helps the Tories from a narrowly partisan perspective in GE2020 anymore.SeanT said:
According to reports Corbyn also speculated whether the French were right to bomb the ISIS capital of Raqqa (as they did) in response to the massacre. Which begs the obvious question: In what circumstances would he ever attack Islamist terrorists/terror states in retaliation for attacks on UK citizens?Toms said:
Thanks. Granted, that's pretty bloody bad.Pulpstar said:
Jeremy Corbyn says he is "not happy" with UK police or security services operating a "shoot-to-kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.Toms said:
Sorry to be living in a vacuum, but could someone please point me to the particular comment(s) by Corbyn?SeanT said:
It's because the Left in France is patriotic in a way the Left in Britain no longer is. Cf Corbyn's repulsive remarks today, refusing to properly defend British citizens even when under fire IN BRITAIN.Roger said:Hollande has become a very impressive leader as many thought he would be. 'Left-wing' is not the dirty word in France that it is on here.
If our politics were less polarised towards either/or---In my experience, for instance, many folk say they hate the LDs because "you don't know where they stand"---I could imagine a place for a minority Corbynite faction with no real power and with the rest of us spread in a balanced spectrum to their right. But here we like to have a simple test, with a winner standing over a bloodied loser. Here, we expend our energies, and create employment, on interpreting laws and customs within an evolved unwritten constitution.
Just theorising.
The Labour leader told the BBC such an approach could "often be counter-productive".
He also declined to answer what he called the "hypothetical question" of whether he would ever back military intervention against extremists.
"I'm not saying I would or I wouldn't," he said.
The implied answer is that Corbyn would NEVER defend Britain in this way.
He is beyond unelectable.
He's a danger to this country, and a traitor. He in no way deserves to be leader of HM Opposition and is constantly debasing the office and our reputation overseas.
I want him out.0 -
Please God this happens .... if Benn were then to succeed Cameron as the next Prime Minister, my 949/1 bet then delivers!HYUFD said:
I remain of the view Hilary Benn will replace Corbyn in two years time in a Howard like manoeuvre with almost unanimous backing from the PLP, probably following Labour falling behind UKIP in a by-election in a formerly Labour held seatflightpath01 said:
I do not see any way they can. He will still get the votes of the Momentum bunch and we see every day that NP supports himPong said:
Fancy a bet, Sean?SeanT said:I think Corbyn will have to row back from his disgusting comments today. Or he will be ousted.
What odds will you give me Corbyn is still in place on Jan 1st 2016?0
