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1st runner up

May the Fourth be with you

"it wasn’t only negative, what happened in the riots. And I think that those people clearly are part of what, of the people that need to be organised and need to find a political expression and social organisation… But it’s also an opportunity. It’s a huge opportunity to channel that anger."

http://order-order.com/2015/11/09/seumas-milne-it-wasnt-only-negative-what-happened-in-the-riots/

Was that what he was taught to think brought up in a good Beeboid / Winchester School household? I somehow doubt he lives in the kind of areas he think were showing such positive things by burning / looting everything in sight.

Seumas seems to display the *anger* of a spoilt brat.

FrancisUrquhart said:

"it wasn’t only negative, what happened in the riots. And I think that those people clearly are part of what, of the people that need to be organised and need to find a political expression and social organisation… But it’s also an opportunity. It’s a huge opportunity to channel that anger."

http://order-order.com/2015/11/09/seumas-milne-it-wasnt-only-negative-what-happened-in-the-riots/

Was that what he was taught to think brought up in a good Beeboid / Winchester School household? I somehow doubt he lives in the kind of areas he think were showing such positive things by burning / looting everything in sight.

Election results and polls are more important than these milestones or anniversaries. Corbyn did fine on Sunday and I think his team are learning how to make him look bland in public.

And I know we are just getting into panto season but that photo is hilarious.

"He's behind you!!"

No, really, he is.

JEO said:

I wonder what Seumas has to say about the protesters that fired fireworks in horses' faces? Are they potential allies and a huge opportunity too?

If this is what he is willing to say in public on camera, you wonder what he says in private.

Bob__Sykes said:

Sorry if already brought up, but if a Tory MP representing a northern working class seat was expending his or her time complaining about a shoe shop failing to reserve him/her a pair of £200 novelty Star Wars-themed shoes, and then wrote a letter of complaint on Commons notepaper, would this be getting wide media coverage and social media faux outrage?

My Facebook feed, for example, is full every day of anti-Tory pro-Corbyn bile (I love my friends and family....!) and yet not a dickie bird about this - and she's just round the corner!

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/mps-star-wars-r2-d2-10409810

Good to see what her priorities are anyway. Oh, and she's a Corbyn supporter....

It would have definitely been front page of the Mirror that is for certain.

ThomasNashe said:

Whether - and how long for - Corbyn can survive is perhaps the biggest question of this parliament. However, I don't think these anniversaries and Corbyn's response to them are the issue. As you note, there have already been a few, and there will be more to come. In my view what it boils down to is how long it will take to demonstrate to Corbynistas that he's electoral poison: i.e. the point at which it is demonstrably shown that he repels floating voters and fails to attract non-voters.

According to the Times - Corbyn is expressing no interest in shadow ministers policy decisions, other than generally saying he does not agree with them. He has contracted our the use of his main office to anyone who wants to borrow it. In so far as people may be dissatisfied with his leadership their discontent is based on very thin gruel. He is not leading. He is even asking other people's questions at PMQs.
Corbyn does not care because he probably does not understand. And he is probably not interested. The real issue is the way the labour party is being eaten from within.

"Boris Johnson has signalled Britons should vote to leave the European Union after he labelled the superstate “anti-democratic” in a major public swipe at Brussels.
The Mayor of London warned "absolute torrents of drivel" would spew from those wishing for Britain to remain part of the 28-nation bloc ahead of the in/out vote, which will be held before the end of 2017."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/618106/Boris-Johnson-Brexit-EU-referendum-Leave-drivel

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sky saying Russia to be banned from all track and field sport worldwide. Amazing if true

If you ever saw the German documentary it comes as little surprise. They estimated that 90% of Russian athletics were doping, that the person in charge of anti-doping was also providing advice on what drugs to use and they had hidden camera footage of athletes being told to take banned substances.

Afternoon all.

The ‘Grid’ made perfect sense as Tony Blair was in power at the time. Jeremy Corbyn is not in power, he presides over a shadow cabinet which appears ill-disciplined and horrendously split from within and with the bulk of his backbench MPs. – I suspect he will continue to stumble from one faux-pas after another until he’s gone.

Here's a really helpful piece I've found on the much under discussed savings ratio. One reason I'm not an optimist on our long term economic prospects.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/848/economics/savings-ratio-uk/

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sky saying London Olympics was sabotaged !!!!

Sabotaged in what way?

rcs1000 said:

AndyJS said:

"Boris Johnson has signalled Britons should vote to leave the European Union after he labelled the superstate “anti-democratic” in a major public swipe at Brussels.
The Mayor of London warned "absolute torrents of drivel" would spew from those wishing for Britain to remain part of the 28-nation bloc ahead of the in/out vote, which will be held before the end of 2017."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/618106/Boris-Johnson-Brexit-EU-referendum-Leave-drivel

Boris needs to be a little careful. He's been very pro-EU with City audiences in the recent past.

Indeed, though I'm not sure In is as set as it was for the City. A couple of years ago, it wouldn't be in question but so many ECJ judgements have gone against the UK recently and the spectre of the FTT (for which they haven't ruled out a tax on derivatives trading) has hampered the case for In significantly.

watford30 said:

JEO said:

I wonder what Seumas has to say about the protesters that fired fireworks in horses' faces? Are they potential allies and a huge opportunity too?

I wonder what the protestors would think about millionaire Milne's inherited fortune?

Well the Tarquin smashing up the plod car while wearing a £500 coat was probably a classmate.

FrancisUrquhart said:

http://order-order.com/2015/11/09/return-of-the-andy-burnham-flip-flop/

He really is useless.

Whatever/whoever comes after Corbyn, at least we can say it's not going to be him ...

MaxPB said:

Election results and polls are more important than these milestones or anniversaries. Corbyn did fine on Sunday and I think his team are learning how to make him look bland in public.

Agreed. He looks like a mild mannered pensioner. So long as he keeps his mouth shut he doesn't look dangerous, though his views are.

If there is a terrorist incident on British soil or affecting Britons - or something like another Charlie Hebdo or attack on a Jewish location, his reaction will be interesting. We know that his reaction to 7/7 was to blame us. Apparently austerity was one of the reasons for the Tunisian beach massacre of Britons.

How he - and those around him - react to such an incident (and please God we don't have one) will probably do more than his reaction to the Easter Uprising Anniversary events which will, no doubt, be drowned in Irish whimsy.

Cyclefree said:

MaxPB said:

Election results and polls are more important than these milestones or anniversaries. Corbyn did fine on Sunday and I think his team are learning how to make him look bland in public.

Agreed. He looks like a mild mannered pensioner. So long as he keeps his mouth shut he doesn't look dangerous, though his views are.

If there is a terrorist incident on British soil or affecting Britons - or something like another Charlie Hebdo or attack on a Jewish location, his reaction will be interesting. We know that his reaction to 7/7 was to blame us. Apparently austerity was one of the reasons for the Tunisian beach massacre of Britons.

How he - and those around him - react to such an incident (and please God we don't have one) will probably do more than his reaction to the Easter Uprising Anniversary events which will, no doubt, be drowned in Irish whimsy.

Despite a long history of these comments, include recent ones e.g. austerity is to blame for terrorism in Tunisia, there is a substantial number of people that either agree or don't want to listen (it is all just the Mail, Sun, Telegraph, BBC being nasty about the demi-god Corbyn). So I don't think it would make any difference.

Hmm, this piece mentions Tony Blair in the first sentence without immediately condemning him - under current political rules on the internet, doesn't that mean the rest must be ignored?

I don't know. The British conduct in Ireland was pretty outrageous and shameful.

A vile foreign power lording it over the sovereign will of the people.

The British Empire = The EU?

Discuss.

It may well be Corbyn is on the right side of history, just like he was over Iraq and meeting Gerry Adams long before the British government did.

FPT
IN will say, hold on to nurse for fear of worse. But

Cyclefree said:

The choice between the status quo - however tweaked - and Leave is a false one for me, because the status quo simply is not an option.

Quite so. And in my opinion the nub of the argument is this:

Cyclefree said:

... a particular view of the relationship between the state and the citizen, freedom under the rule of law and the state not behaving oppressively i.e. with an important part of Britain's identity.

This is a fundamental difference between the EU and the UK. The issue of sovereignty is that here it lies with the people. But less so in continental Europe. E.g. consider France, a country run by énarques whose president - De Gaulle - said "l'état c'est moi". This is reflected in the administrative structures and procedures of the EU.
In Margaret Thatcher's egregiously misquoted interview with Woman's Own ("no such thing as society") she also said "the whole essence of democracy is that you submit yourself to the people and it is from the people that your only authority comes." That is not how the big fish in Europe think. Look at their response to elections/referenda in various countries in recent years when the result was not to their liking. So when IN say "we carry on" (© J-C Junker) they mean the goal of ever closer union will continue to ride roughshod over the lesser goal of democratic decision making in member states. That is the status quo for IN.

Casino_Royale said:

On topic, will he be able to help himself?

That is the $64,000 question. We all have a fair idea what John McDonnell and he would like to say. How far will they rein themselves in?

Good afternoon, everyone.

Miss Plato, is the CO situation resolved?

Mr. 1000, a bigger problem, as far I'm concerned, is that the blonde oaf is on the record stating we should vote Out, then remain in after getting some concessions.

Mr. Antifrank, I do wonder if Corbyn fits FU's description of Hal Collingridge's leadership, something like - "He was in the trap and screaming from the first moment. We just put the poor bastard out of his misery."

watford30 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I don't know. The British conduct in Ireland was pretty outrageous and shameful.

A vile foreign power lording it over the sovereign will of the people.

F Off it was.

Want to defend the potato famine or the Croke Park massacre as great advert for UK rule in Ireland?

antifrank said:

It's just as well that Russia isn't due to host any major sporting contests in the near future. Just think how awkward that would be for that sport's governing body, especially if there was any kind of a hint that Russia may have been awarded the contest on a stitch-up.

I for one am glad we don't live in that kind of world.

On topic, I cannot say I'd considered the matter of such an anniversary, Irish issues with Britain in general are just so frustrating and depressing to think about at times, but no-one on his own side seems to have cared much about his views on the subject to date, so it will be interesting to see if his core support gets rattled by how he handles it, for there will no doubt be politics made of his positions at such times. Unless his core gets rattled, it doesn't matter what he believes or says. He could quote a former BNP figure, to pick an example at random, something that would condemn a Tory, and there'd be barely a peep.

Indigo said:

FPT:

flightpath01 said:

A trade deal with the EU involves free movement of labour ... It involves the single market and its rules. Defacto EEA.
Far from throwing out the EEA, I see it as the only realistic chance of persuading the public to leave the EU.

Yes, now that you mention it I recall that free movement of Labour with South Korea (FTA signed in 2010) and Mexico (FTA signed in 1997)... No.. wait!

No wait.. South Korea is in Europe, now I remember.

antifrank said:

Anyway, I showed huge self-restraint not including any references to tanks, bombs, bombs and guns anywhere in this thread header.

On a Zombie related theme. I've managed to draft a thread which talks about the Zombie Apocalypse in the opening sentence.

I hope Seb Coe didn't have the idea that being President was going to be fun.

Afternoon all

Corbyn seems to be settling into the role quite well (it took Cameron a bit of time as well). The problem does seem to be his immediate associates and what they've said or not said. It seems not to have grasped some on the Labour side that as soon as an appointment is made their opponents will start scouring Twitter and Facebook accounts for anything "useful".

As for other matters, Cameron's argument for staying in the EU on the basis of "national security" is astonishingly feeble - if he were advocating membership or otherwise of NATO that would be different.

The only advantage REMAIN has is LEAVE is also inept at conveying any kind of coherent and positive message.

I argued a couple of weeks ago a post-EU Britain could take the lead in a rejuvenated EFTA offering a free market and much looser association as a counterweight to the increasingly integrationist EU. That might in turn prove an attractive option for other sceptical EU members on the periphery such as Poland, Finland and Denmark.

REMAIN's message is awful if that's all Cameron has to offer - no one believes the scenario of hundreds of thousands of job losses on EU exit. LEAVE has to get its act together - pathetic stunts like this morning are counter-productive. The message needs to be optimistic and re-assuring - "the world won't end if we leave the EU and will in fact be better".

I hope Seb Coe didn't have the idea that being President was going to be fun.

Coe's actions as president so far were getting crucified on TalkSport this morning

taffys said:

I hope Seb Coe didn't have the idea that being President was going to be fun.

Coe's actions as president so far were getting crucified on TalkSport this morning

Shortest term as president of the IAAF to date is 5 years according to wikipedia, with the next shortest being 16 years. If he plays things wrong, he could create an unwelcome record there.

A very thoughtful piece by Antifrank, but you have to believe that Corbyn gives a monkeys what anyone else thinks for him to use such a thing as a grid. He doesn't care and its a question of when he makes the next mistake.. Today, tomorrow,its just a question of time.

rcs1000 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. 1000, a bigger problem, as far I'm concerned, is that the blonde oaf is on the record stating we should vote Out, then remain in after getting some concessions.

I completely agree. It is a disgraceful position.

Out means out. Out doesn't mean "let's think about it some more". If the vote is for out, then we should invoke article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty as soon as practicable, and begin the negotiation process for Out.

(There is a case for discussions with EFTA - if that was the goal - to begin prior to invocation of Article 50, as it would make most sense to go EU -> EFTA without a period where our status is unclear.)

We would have 2 years at least as members of the EU before we would have to finalise alternative relations.. by which I mean actually sign on the dotted line.

So whilst I agree it would be good to begin such negotiations with EFTA as early as possible, it is unlikely we would have a situation where we were caught between two stools.

Richard_Tyndall said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

watford30 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I don't know. The British conduct in Ireland was pretty outrageous and shameful.

A vile foreign power lording it over the sovereign will of the people.

F Off it was.

Want to defend the potato famine or the Croke Park massacre as great advert for UK rule in Ireland?

Or the British deceit over partition. Or the Black and Tans sacking Cork and burning down Irish towns.

Show me a country that doesn't have skeletons in its closet.

Britain's rule in Ireland certainly had its dark moments but they should be judged in the context of their time, and the context of the credibly available alternatives.

bigjohnowls said:

Cough up or else George!!

http://m.hsj.co.uk/5091783.article#.VkC0nrfhAok

Today I see that it's fine for public sector employees to get involved in matters of party political disagreement. Why wasn't it fine yesterday?

Mr. Antifrank, same reason it was fine for the Lords to ignore convention but horrendous for the general to do it? :P

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

antifrank said:

Anyway, I showed huge self-restraint not including any references to tanks, bombs, bombs and guns anywhere in this thread header.

On a Zombie related theme. I've managed to draft a thread which talks about the Zombie Apocalypse in the opening sentence.

On a thread-related theme, I wrote and uploaded that piece you suggested I write on Saturday. Any chance it might get published?

It'll get published. I'll remind Mike in a bit.

The Easter Rising would have been a relatively minor incident had not the British Government reacted in the way they did. IIRC (from reading) the majority of Dubliners were either opposed or neutral.
To be fair of course we were at war, and Intelligence were aware of Casement’s concurrent (and earlier) activities, although of course he wasn’t involved with the Rising.

antifrank said:

bigjohnowls said:

Cough up or else George!!

http://m.hsj.co.uk/5091783.article#.VkC0nrfhAok

Today I see that it's fine for public sector employees to get involved in matters of party political disagreement. Why wasn't it fine yesterday?

Different rules for the military.

Have you ever heard of a coup being carried about by Doctors?

The Doctors' plot doesn't count.

[Sunil puts on his best Ulster accent]

The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!

[but then he clutches his head, screaming, as his hitherto malfunctioning Tebbit Chip finally kicks in...]

Aaaarrrrrrgh!!!

[...before a more servile expression crosses his face...]

Must be loyal to England... must be loyal...

watford30 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

watford30 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I don't know. The British conduct in Ireland was pretty outrageous and shameful.

A vile foreign power lording it over the sovereign will of the people.

F Off it was.

Want to defend the potato famine or the Croke Park massacre as great advert for UK rule in Ireland?

Or the British deceit over partition. Or the Black and Tans sacking Cork and burning down Irish towns.

No. That's why I deleted the comment when it clicked that TSE wasn't referring to the more recent Troubles.

Understood Watford.

antifrank said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

antifrank said:

bigjohnowls said:

Cough up or else George!!

http://m.hsj.co.uk/5091783.article#.VkC0nrfhAok

Today I see that it's fine for public sector employees to get involved in matters of party political disagreement. Why wasn't it fine yesterday?

Different rules for the military.

Have you ever heard of a coup being carried about by Doctors?

The Doctors' plot doesn't count.

He didn't threaten a coup. He said that he was worried about a proposed policy.

The question might well have been asked by a select committee with complete propriety and answered in identical terms. I can't see what the general did wrong at all.

It just felt wrong.

As (possibly) one of the only posters on here whose great great grandfather was an actual Fenian (and I have the Fenian penny with his name and membership number to prove it) I can cheerfully say that:-

1. British rule in Ireland was not, by any stretch of the imagination, one of Britain's finest hours;
2. The Tory party's approach to the Irish question in the early part of this century was pretty disgraceful;
3. The Left have no real understanding of Irish history, preferring - ignorantly and arrogantly - to shoehorn it into their reductive Marxist view of everything; and
4. Anything Corbyn or McDonnell said or did on Ireland was totally irrelevant to the relatively peaceful outcome we have today. They are not - and will not be - even footnotes on footnotes in Irish history.

rottenborough said:

In US, Carson not too happy with the level of media scrutiny he's getting. Welcome to being the front runner, it ain't brain surgery.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/chris-christie-ben-carson-215637

For somebody who has held such a higher regarded position and was a brain surgeon, he speaks very very poorly.