politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How a minor change to the electoral system could stop Farag
There’s an intriguing move developing that could lead to a change in the way the EU elections are carried out resulting in an electoral system that’s less UKIP friendly.
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Seems like it would be hard to model this stuff. Who knows what would happen in the real world?
But open lists FTW.0 -
"The Open-list systems is used in EU Parliament elections in 18 of the 28 member nations and it is being said that a change could be brought in for the 2014 elections if the coalition wanted."
Being said by who? That it looks like a simple way to mitigate the temporary kipper and NF bounce at the EU elections doesn't necessarily mean it is supported by Cammie.
You get some of Cammie's inner circle briefing the press about it, or a few friendly tory MPs, then it might be a runner. Until then it's an interesting hypothetical.0 -
From the header: "If it happened then my 10/1 bet that the Tories will win most votes would look like a possible winner"
Would a bet not become void if the electoral system changed after the bet was placed? Is there anything in the T&Cs about this - especially if a change is made which is going to influence the result?
Anyway, it's only the LSE flying a kite so I'm just posing a theoretical question here.
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Changing the rules now with less than a year to go would be an effing disgrace.0
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Sadly the open list method with information scenario seems rather confusing and spurious , false even, given that all the parties real policies were misrepresented.
I am sure if you hypothetically changed the policies of parties to reflect their opponents policies in many areas you could force a different outcome with Labour's main rival in the election being pushed back and the 3rd party improving.
I also note that although 4 scenarios were tested they only talk about 2. I wonder why?
Of course given that ERS is run by Katie Ghose (former Labour party researcher, recently failed Labour candidate and Chair of 'Yes To AV' a campaign which refused to work with UKIP despite their support of AV) and renouned for its left of centre views on democracy and a general disdain for anything Eurosceptic its impossible to take this article seriously.
As for the LSE team who did the 'study'?
I think this article by its leader tells you all you need to know......
http://placelux.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/victory-for-europe-disaster-for-britain/
This study would seem to be like using data provided by Tim Yeo as the basis for an objective analysis of wind farms. It's a rather predictable, given the authors, 'pigs might fly' study. File in bin......0 -
If they were to change the rules, I'd hope it would be for the election after next. Otherwise you are totally right.Andy_JS said:Changing the rules now with less than a year to go would be an effing disgrace.
Sorry to go hugely OT, but wanted to ease TSE's worries. Based on his assessments of each of the previous Kings George, and extrapolating the trend to George VII, I think we have nothing to worry aboutTheScreamingEagles said:The more I think about it, naming the Prince, George is a bad idea, not only because of Blackadder the Third, but historically Kings called George, have been bad for the country.
George I - German who couldn't speak English, and effectively handed over his powers to a Prime Minister
George II - Short tempered and had more mistresses than achievements.
George III - Madder than a a box of Frogs and lost us America
George IV - Just read what the Duke of Wellington said about him
George V - The first decent King called George
George VI - One of the finest Kings this country has ever produced, defeated his personal demons and led the country through the abdication crisis and world war II
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Interesting thesis - but doesn't seem likely to be in time for 2014. Perhaps something the LDs could ask for after the next election?0
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Another low Labour lead with YouGov, today it's 4. It does look like the Conservatives improving their vote rather than the other way round.0
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I don't see how the thread header fit's with the graph. To my (sleepy) eye, it doesn't seem to matter which system is used, Labour come top!
It therefore follows to bet the house on Labour first for the Euros!. Good luck to anyone who does :-)0 -
Nothing wrong with changing the electoral system, but it would look odd at this late stage for 20140
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Given how frivolously people voters EU elections, I'm highly sceptical both about polling on the topic and still more about the impact of different electoral systems.0
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Must say I"ve always wanted to vote for one of our (Lab) MEP's, who is probably one of the top three in visiblity, and must be one of the most active on behalf of consituency issues, but as a party for the LD's, who seem to be the only ones in UK who really want to see the Union succeed.0
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@TSE on kings called George
What you describe there is a trend from low to high, bottom left to top right!0 -
Given UKIP MEP attendance records, surely anything that makes them individually more accountable is to be welcomed?
"UKIP has been branded Europe’s laziest party after figures revealed its MEPs top the skivers’ league.
Leader Nigel Farage has the fifth worst attendance record out of all 752 MEPs.
His anti-European Union party sidekicks Godfrey Bloom and deputy leader Paul Nuttall, who each pocket more than £60,000 a year in Brussels salaries, are even lazier.
Mr Bloom is second only to Ireland’s Brian Crowley in missed votes — attending less than a third. Mr Nuttall sits fourth last, voting just 46% of the time. The figures, unearthed by the Mirror, mean UKIP has three of the top five laziest MEPs.
Overall, the anti-EU party’s 11 MEPs miss a third of all votes — double the European average.
The pro-Europe Lib Dems are the hardest-working British party in Brussels — attending 87% of votes.
The Greens come in next on 84.8%, Labour third on 82.7%, and the Tories second from bottom with an 80.4% attendance record.
Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-branded-laziest-political-party-1936913#ixzz2a2CtHVAY0 -
This is, of course, Brilliant news for the SNP...
Alex Salmond has been left embarrassed after a government document branding fossil fuels “damaging and price-volatile” was leaked the day after he began a charm offensive aimed at North Sea oil firms.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/naturalresources/article3824672.ece
The paper shows that privately ministers are worried about the shifting price of oil, despite publicly making optimistic claims and accusing the UK Government of “fibbing” about projections.
The timing is particularly awkward for the SNP Government. On Tuesday, the First Minister launched an oil and gas strategy in which he lavished praise on the industry and said he had no plans to put their taxes up in an independent Scotland. “The sector in Scotland will continue to thrive for decades to come,” he said. “We will provide optimum conditions for the oil and gas industry to innovate and thrive in a globally-competitive environment.”
But the paper leaked yesterday states: “The transition to renewable energy reduces our dependence on damaging, price-volatile fossil fuels.” Opposition politicians said the paper showed the private concerns of ministers about relying on oil revenues. The First Minister accused them of “talking Scotland down”.
It is the second time a paper has leaked from the Scottish Government — and both have apparently come from the department of John Swinney, the Finance Secretary.
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@CarlottaVance
That’s good stuff which I'll file away.
If Farage does try for Westminster again then being dubbed Europe's "Fifth laziest MEP" is going to be chucked at him time and time again.
UKIP are able to operate like they do in Brussels because the electoral system means they aren't individually accountable.0 -
Good morning all. Its Q2 Growth day so what do PBers think? +0.5% ? better? worse? No doubt regardless of how good the numbers, Tim will take the opportunity to dismiss George Osborne as incompetent and all the other adjectives he regularly uses to insult people.0
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@Easterross
I reckon 0.7% growth - and Labour are already calling it the 'wrong sort of growth'.
On that basis - its impossible to ever win the argument.0 -
because of course what we needed was a big VAT cut and lots more civil servants.Plato said:@Easterross
I reckon 0.7% growth - and Labour are already calling it the 'wrong sort of growth'.
On that basis - its impossible to ever win the argument.0 -
With their supporters it may not play badly. Sinn Fein seemed to win seats despite never turning up at Westminster.
Colour me a bit sceptical about changes to the list system (though open lists would be an improvement) when even avid followers of politics struggle to name their MEP. The only ones I could name would be Dan Hannan, Nigel Farage and Paul Nuttal. The rest are just grey blobs in suits.MikeSmithson said:@CarlottaVance
That’s good stuff which I'll file away.
If Farage does try for Westminster again then being dubbed Europe's "Fifth laziest MEP" is going to be chucked at him time and time again.
UKIP are able to operate like they do in Brussels because the electoral system means they aren't individually accountable.0 -
"Unite chief Len McCluskey reignites war with Labour leader Ed Miliband
The Unite chief said the ongoing row over candidate selection had pushed the union’s relationship with Labour to breaking point"
Daily Mail
Daily Telegraph
Daily Express
The Sun
The Times
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/unite-chief-len-mccluskey-reignites-2087060#ixzz2a2JyrRLs
Non story, nothing to see...?0 -
Not sure the open list idea is more democratic. Most people understand the party brands even if they do not like them. Whereas, in general, MEP candidates are unknown to the point they may as well be on a witness protection programme.
Most people would lose the will to live on a ballot featuring 50+ names, that is if they turn out to vote at all. As such this idea totally misses the point.
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Good morning, everyone.
In important news, I saw a fox this morning when I was walking the dog.
Less importantly, I'm a bit sleepy and slightly puzzled by the way this would work. Vote for an individual rather than a party makes sense, but this is still PR, right? So, your vote might 'spill over' to another candidate of the same party?
PR remains a steaming pile of horseshit.
FPT: Thanks, Mr. Eagles.
FPT: Mr. Jessop, interesting thoughts on a potential 40C race. It's also worth noting that the track's not used much (presumably because it's rubbish) and that it'll improve dramatically over the course of the weekend. So, fastest in P1 may mean very little.0 -
The Sun is happy:
Loony Len
— Leftie union boss threatens Labour
— Rant at press for exposing 'vote fix'
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5032433/len-mccluskey-attack-labour.html#ixzz2a2MuuE4q0 -
GDP is a crap measure.
But this is not new - just the bandwagon jumping lefties who lapped it up when Brown borrowed like a fiend.0 -
I've experience of open lists from Denmark, where parties can (or when I lived there *could* - not sure now) choose. Generally the smaller parties went for it. What it produces is lots of competition within parties - vote for Jones, the most environmentally-friendly Liberal/vote for Smith, who has the experience to represent you forcefully in Brussels. It markedly weakens the power of the whips (which is why the big parties were less keen) and it's a wholly good thing in my opinion. A side-effect is that it makes the individual candidates much better known than in Britain.
But I'm sceptical that it would change the election. Prompting for "what would you do if..." (is that what was done here?) is like saying "would you vote Tory if they were led by Boris?" It encourages people to change their answer in a way that may not be realistic.
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I have just had a look at the MEP's in my region (East)
Haven't heard of any of them.Jonathan said:Not sure the open list idea is more democratic. Most people understand the party brands even if they do not like them. Whereas, in general, MEP candidates are unknown to the point they may as well be on a witness protection programme.
Most people would lose the will to live on a ballot featuring 50+ names, that is if they turn out to vote at all. As such this idea totally misses the point.0 -
I thought you'd approve of that, Labour did it for 13 years to the point of destruction.tim said:@BBCNormanS: Terry Scuoler of Engineering Employers Fed @BBCr4today warns expected rise in GDP based on consumption and debt
That's the policy
Bubble inflate devalue0 -
It seems that this change would be good for democracy. But it is also clear that it will be only introduced for party advantage. Sad or what?
Just like the lack of enthusiasm for going back to the old system of postal voting. Nothing to do with promting democracy---everything to do with narrow political advantage.
Whatever you look at, it is hard to be impressed with the current crop of politicians.0 -
F1: current forecasts suggest it'll be 35-37C for the race. I'll keep an eye on that as the time draws nearer. 34C is expected for qualifying.0
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Exactly! To be posting here you have to be particularly engaged in politics. If people like us do not recognise our MEPs, who will?Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I have just had a look at the MEP's in my region (East)
Haven't heard of any of them.Jonathan said:Not sure the open list idea is more democratic. Most people understand the party brands even if they do not like them. Whereas, in general, MEP candidates are unknown to the point they may as well be on a witness protection programme.
Most people would lose the will to live on a ballot featuring 50+ names, that is if they turn out to vote at all. As such this idea totally misses the point.
It's absurd.
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The parties would simply minimise choice by only putting ((number of MEPs they expect to get) plus 1) candidates on each list.0
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Indeed, Mr. Kendrick, but I'd add that the electorate and media also share much of the blame (the media more than either the voters or the politicians, I suspect).0
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You'll be cheer leading the pack, these are also Labour's policies - ask Osborne. Labour have no policies.tim said:
Watch the PB Tories cheer what they blame for the crashAlanbrooke said:
I thought you'd approve of that, Labour did it for 13 years to the point of destruction.tim said:@BBCNormanS: Terry Scuoler of Engineering Employers Fed @BBCr4today warns expected rise in GDP based on consumption and debt
That's the policy
Bubble inflate devalue
Spending more than Brown, consumer debt and a housing bubble.
Labour - the pointless party.0 -
0.6% of very welcome growth should be announced at 0930. Should feed into the deficit too. It'll be interesting to see the components of this growth to spot any rebalancing.
But not to get too churlish - we need this growth to help UK crack on and get working.
Noticed that Spanish unemployment has dropped by a whole %. Stronger PMIs from the eurozone too. Interesting stuff.0 -
Having now had a dekko at all the regions, the name recognition factor has rocketed to about 7.
I have often thought that if I was a politician, an MEP would be the best job.
Decent pay and perks, virtually no case work (IWHT) and the amount of scrutiny of my activities not far above the square root of sod all. What's not to like?Jonathan said:
Exactly! To be posting here you have to be particularly engaged in politics. If people like us do not recognise our MEPs, who will?Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I have just had a look at the MEP's in my region (East)
Haven't heard of any of them.Jonathan said:Not sure the open list idea is more democratic. Most people understand the party brands even if they do not like them. Whereas, in general, MEP candidates are unknown to the point they may as well be on a witness protection programme.
Most people would lose the will to live on a ballot featuring 50+ names, that is if they turn out to vote at all. As such this idea totally misses the point.
It's absurd.0 -
Oh I don't know - I think they are adding greatly to the gaiety of the nation, convulsing themselves with an internal debate to be resolved within a year of the GE - and all over a non-story too!Alanbrooke said:
.Labour - the pointless party.tim said:
Watch the PB Tories cheer what they blame for the crashAlanbrooke said:
I thought you'd approve of that, Labour did it for 13 years to the point of destruction.tim said:@BBCNormanS: Terry Scuoler of Engineering Employers Fed @BBCr4today warns expected rise in GDP based on consumption and debt
That's the policy
Bubble inflate devalue
Spending more than Brown, consumer debt and a housing bubble.
On more sombre news the death toll in Spain is shocking -79 dead - a third of those on the train.
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@Alanbrooke
Labour MPs are still advocating a cut in VAT - and that's it as far as I can tell.
If the figures are encouraging on growth, Labour will need to sharpen up their act pronto. It's becoming a trend.
What I find interesting are several commentators noting that Labour's continued pessimism and carping is switching voters off - they want to believe in green shoots.
I remember when Blair was forever rubbishing the Tories during his early days as leader, it got really wearing and it turned me off him for quite a while until he changed the message.0 -
Mr. M, interesting comment on Spanish unemployment. I wonder how Greece and Italy are doing.0
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And France - that model so loved by EdM is hitting record highs in unemployment over 3.2m IIRCMorris_Dancer said:Mr. M, interesting comment on Spanish unemployment. I wonder how Greece and Italy are doing.
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It would be interesting to see stats from other countries on how many people write down a preference with open lists.
In Italy it's difficult as in Euro elections we have the chance to put down more than one preference.
But here's the stats for local elections in my municipalities (where there's just 1 preference available):
List 1: 74 out of 281 votes indicated the specific local council candidate..26.3%
List 2: 521/1411....36.9%
List 3: 155/501...30.9%
List 4: 504/1319...38.2%
Mind you, the overall turnout was 64.14%....in your Euro elections it would be 30% if it's a good day, so the reduced turnout could indicate more informed people brothering to vote and an higher chance they scrutinize single candidates0 -
One of them is on BBC News (East) at least once every couple of weeks. Seems a straightforward, hard-working chap.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I have just had a look at the MEP's in my region (East)
Haven't heard of any of them.Jonathan said:Not sure the open list idea is more democratic. Most people understand the party brands even if they do not like them. Whereas, in general, MEP candidates are unknown to the point they may as well be on a witness protection programme.
Most people would lose the will to live on a ballot featuring 50+ names, that is if they turn out to vote at all. As such this idea totally misses the point.
And no, I'm not a member of his party or his family!
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R4 Today is an exercise in attempting to rubbish any positive news in advance
- wrong sort of growth
- its only doing what it should have done already
- its not as high as it was
- its because people aren't saving as much
- its not really growth as people aren't earning as much
The creativity applied to this is remarkable.-1 -
Interesting discussion on the last thread on monarchs leading in battle and of course we have the example our own royalty in battle most recently with Prince Harry.
For the most recent ultimate British royal sacrifice we have to go to Prince George, Duke of Kent, who was killed on active service in 1942.0 -
Wrong sort of growth is as ludicrous as the wrong type of snow. Its will be laughed at.0
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Finger in the pie Flanders... part of the comrade shagocracy.Plato said:R4 Today is an exercise in attempting to rubbish any positive news in advance
- wrong sort of growth
- its only doing what it should have done already
- its not as high as it was
- its because people aren't saving as much
- its not really growth as people aren't earning as much
The creativity applied to this is remarkable.0 -
It underlines my earlier point - that carping and nitpicking in the face of good news looks petty and churlish. Rather like being rude about a newborn baby as some did about the Boy George.SquareRoot said:Wrong sort of growth is as ludicrous as the wrong type of snow. Its will be laughed at.
I gather Ed Balls is in the USA at some event - so let's see what he has to contribute in between seminars.0 -
Tim admitting he was wrong and pb Tories were right on GDP - a sinner has repenteth.0
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New Labour model isn't it?tim said:
Repeating housing bubbles funded by debt over and over again forever is theSquareRoot said:Wrong sort of growth is as ludicrous as the wrong type of snow. Its will be laughed at.
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tim, these are the policies the two Eds have signed up to. They are your policies. Quit griping or produce something better. You are an Osbornite, George is your King.tim said:
Repeating housing bubbles funded by debt over and over again forever is the PB Tories settled view of success now is it.SquareRoot said:Wrong sort of growth is as ludicrous as the wrong type of snow. Its will be laughed at.
So we went from growth through austerity which failed, to growth through a bubble but missed out growth through investment along the way.0 -
Tim
Housing bubble is your new meme, There isn't one that is noticeable where I live , if anything prices are static..but then again just about every meme you have has no basis in fact . its a lot of hot air and wasted kdp's.0 -
The experiences in other countries is that the 50 names won't actually appear on the ballot. They will be on a separate table exposed in public places and at the polling station. Voters write the name of the chosen candidate on the ballot.Jonathan said:
Most people would lose the will to live on a ballot featuring 50+ names, that is if they turn out to vote at all. As such this idea totally misses the point.0 -
very amusing that tim is now attacking the entire new labour model...tim said:
Repeating housing bubbles funded by debt over and over again forever is the PB Tories settled view of success now is it.SquareRoot said:Wrong sort of growth is as ludicrous as the wrong type of snow. Its will be laughed at.
So we went from growth through austerity which failed, to growth through a bubble but missed out growth through investment along the way.0 -
Vicky Ford
Van Something
the UKIP to Con defector
Sturdy
Howitt
Duff
A Kipper
Who are the 7 you recognize overall? I am sure Hannan, Farage...I guess Andreasen....Cashman if you watched Eastenders 20 years ago....Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I have just had a look at the MEP's in my region (East)
Haven't heard of any of them.0 -
CarlottaVance said:
New Labour model isn't it?tim said:
Repeating housing bubbles funded by debt over and over again forever is theSquareRoot said:Wrong sort of growth is as ludicrous as the wrong type of snow. Its will be laughed at.
Whilst I agree it appears Ozzie is trying to stoke a housing boomlet pre-election in 2014/15 which is 'questionable' in my view, that is still to come.
Tim appears to be spinning this ludicrous line of a new housing boom (which has passed me by which is odd as an IFA/mortgage adviser) for today's GDP number, just how much of the growth we will hear is he seriously ascribing to that?
It's piffle.
The first stage of help to buy only kicked in April 2013, second part Jan 2014....
It's a feeble economic analysis.... .... for now....
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Voting for Euro Tory ranking closes tomorrow.
All candidates
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/parliament/2013/07/full-list-of-would-be-mep-candidates-in-all-regions-theres-still-time-to-use-your-vote.html
Some interesting races IMO:
- which incumbent will be ranked third in London. It's probably a losing position. With all council elections on the same day, turnout in Labour's inner boroughs won't be as low as it could have been in 2009.
- which will be the destiny of the 2 sitting MEPs who didn't get automatic reselection? UKIP defector David Campbell Bannerman in East and Richard Ashworth in SE. ConHome suggest Andreasen is not campaigning anymore. DCB and Ashworth would still have a chance if they top the open ballot.
- the best regions for new candidates are IMO East Midlands and Yorkshire where they can replace the defecting incumbents. Except if a newcomer defeats DCB and Ashworth, in other regions, I can't see the Tories winning more seats than incumbents restanding.
- the great majority of incumbents standing again are safe. I can't see Con not holding 2 seats in North West (now 3), South East (currently 4), South West (3), East (3) and West Midlands (3) or holding a single seat in East Midlands (now 2) and Yorkshire (2). The top 2 in London shouldn't have problems either.0 -
During Brown's boom, a key prop to the debt-fuelled growth was people remortgaging to release more equity from their rising property prices to fund greater consumption.
All tim needs to do is find the stats on how much equity releasing is taking place now, compare it to the years 2003-8 and that will tell us whether this new spin has any basis at all in fact.... I predict he won't find it.
Now 2014/15 - that could be different.0 -
The election we just had in Japan uses a single, non-transferable vote for a multi-member seat. Too many candidates and you split your own vote, so the party runs multiple candidates, but then withdraws their endorsement of one at the last minute if they're doing badly and leaves them to run as an independent. Former PM Naoto Kan went ahead and stumped for one of those unlucky candidates anyhow, which is about to get him thrown out of the party he founded.No_Offence_Alan said:The parties would simply minimise choice by only putting ((number of MEPs they expect to get) plus 1) candidates on each list.
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tim - this morning you remind me of Father Dougal as Ted explains the concept of perspective... these are small but those are far away.
GDP numbers = historic / past tense
Help to buy 'ramp' = to come / future tense
Hope that's helped you.0 -
Ok you lucky PBers I've cobbled together another quiz related to the last thread discussion on military royals.
Since AD1000 who of our monarchs have been killed in battle ?0 -
tim - or the person posting as tim - at the time of rising deficit under Brown used to rail against "whining" Pb Tories who wouldn't accept that rising GDP under Brown was the most marvellous measure of a nations virility even though it includes borrowing.Scrapheap_as_was said:During Brown's boom, a key prop to the debt-fuelled growth was people remortgaging to release more equity from their rising property prices to fund greater consumption.
All tim needs to do is find the stats on how much equity releasing is taking place now, compare it to the years 2003-8 and that will tell us whether this new spin has any basis at all in fact.... I predict he won't find it.
Now 2014/15 - that could be different.
Now - he's seen the light - GDP isn't the be all and end all.
He's either seen the light or a whining hypocrite.
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I'm intrigued by the CoE's ambition re credit unions it's the first sensible thing I've heard ArchWelby say. Not keen on his rhetoric when attacking Wonga 'put them out of business' - it's a business providing a service to those who can't go elsewhere.
If the CoE can use churches and its school premises as branch outlets for small loans at better rates - great.0 -
tim said:
The extension of the new build scheme to remortgaging applies next year as you say.Scrapheap_as_was said:During Brown's boom, a key prop to the debt-fuelled growth was people remortgaging to release more equity from their rising property prices to fund greater consumption.
All tim needs to do is find the stats on how much equity releasing is taking place now, compare it to the years 2003-8 and that will tell us whether this new spin has any basis at all in fact.... I predict he won't find it.
Now 2014/15 - that could be different.
Thats when the full insanity of the state subsidising the remortgage of million dollar flats kicks in.
Thank you for catching up on this whole 'tense' thing. I actually may agree with you to some extent - but not yet. You can't tar this morning's GDP numbers with it.
This potential bubble also depends what happens to the supply side (and there are some encouraging signs too there if you look at the listed house builders) but this will only show in 2014/15 so your meme this morning is (for now) = Boxxxcks.
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The figures are only really accurate to the nearest half a percent, so I expect anywhere in the range 0.5-1.0%.Easterross said:Good morning all. Its Q2 Growth day so what do PBers think? +0.5% ? better? worse? No doubt regardless of how good the numbers, Tim will take the opportunity to dismiss George Osborne as incompetent and all the other adjectives he regularly uses to insult people.
I've always said that the GDP figures are a lot less important then those on borrowing, real wage growth, unemployment and the balance of trade. Hopefully Osborne agrees, though his attempt to puff up another house price bubble is not particularly reassuring.0 -
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Dead kings in battle, eh...
Harold and Richard III are the most obvious ones.0 -
Next tim will be whining that the GDP figures are only tweeted early in the day when they are good and later in the day when bad - or something.
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I actually applaud his robust language, somewhat like - get the moneylenders out of temple.Plato said:I'm intrigued by the CoE's ambition re credit unions it's the first sensible thing I've heard ArchWelby say. Not keen on his rhetoric when attacking Wonga 'put them out of business' - it's a business providing a service to those who can't go elsewhere.
If the CoE can use churches and its school premises as branch outlets for small loans at better rates - great.
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Howitt for certain.AndreaParma_82 said:Vicky Ford
Van Something
the UKIP to Con defector
Sturdy
Howitt
Duff
A Kipper
Who are the 7 you recognize overall? I am sure Hannan, Farage...I guess Andreasen....Cashman if you watched Eastenders 20 years ago....Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I have just had a look at the MEP's in my region (East)
Haven't heard of any of them.
Duff I recognise, but I'm not as sure.0 -
Yup. Easy ones first :Morris_Dancer said:Dead kings in battle, eh...
Harold and Richard III are the most obvious ones.
Harold Godwinson - 1066 Battle of Hastings
Richard III - 1485 Battle of Bosworth
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Crikey - this is What Planet stuff.I thought he'd behaved honourably in falling on his sword - clearly having it wrapped in £1/2m helped a lot. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/medianews/article3824658.ece
The BBC secretly gave an executive a payoff of about half a million pounds even though he resigned after being criticised over a documentary trailer which misrepresented the Queen.
Peter Fincham, former Controller of BBC1, wrongly told the press that the trailer showed the Queen walking out of a photo session in 2007 “in a huff”.
Mr Fincham, now ITV’s director of television, was told a few hours later that the trailer gave a misleading impression but a correcting statement was not put out until the next day. The delay meant that false claims of the Queen “storming out” were reported by the BBC and many other media organisations.
Mr Fincham resigned three months later after being criticised in a report into the affair. At the time the BBC refused to say whether or not he had received a payoff.0 -
Payday lenders are evil. They should be outlawed. They are not providing a service that we should allow to continue - those who currently rely upon them should be helped to manage their finances better. It cannot be in their interests to pay APRs of 4000+%.0
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The poor need protected from themselves ?antifrank said:Payday lenders are evil. They should be outlawed. They are not providing a service that we should allow to continue - those who currently rely upon them should be helped to manage their finances better. It cannot be in their interests to pay APRs of 4000+%.
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The desperate need protecting from people who will exploit their need.TGOHF said:
The poor need protected from themselves ?antifrank said:Payday lenders are evil. They should be outlawed. They are not providing a service that we should allow to continue - those who currently rely upon them should be helped to manage their finances better. It cannot be in their interests to pay APRs of 4000+%.
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Will it be PB royalty politically dead shortly ?
Prince Nicholas Palmer - August 2013 Battle of Broxtowe0 -
Ed Miliband and Labour ?Quincel said:
The desperate need protecting from people who will exploit their need.TGOHF said:
The poor need protected from themselves ?antifrank said:Payday lenders are evil. They should be outlawed. They are not providing a service that we should allow to continue - those who currently rely upon them should be helped to manage their finances better. It cannot be in their interests to pay APRs of 4000+%.
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"Since AD1000 who of our monarchs have been killed in battle ?"
If by ‘our’ you mean Scottish & English, rather than just British,then:
Kennith II (Scotland) 1005
Duncan I (Scotland) 1040
Macbeth Scotland) 1057
Harold (England) 1066
William I (England) 1078
Malcolm III (Scotland) 1093
Richard the Lion Heart (England) 1199
James II (Scotland) 1460
Richard II (England) 1485
James II (Scotland) 1488
James IV (Scotland) 1513.
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The Conqueror died as a result of battle although he wasn't killed in action.JackW said:Ok you lucky PBers I've cobbled together another quiz related to the last thread discussion on military royals.
Since AD1000 who of our monarchs have been killed in battle ?
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@TGOHF Sometimes, yes.0
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Christianity in the West has been damagingly obsessed with issues of personal morality for a long time. There are tentative signs that both the new Archbishop and new Pope are minded to change this. It would be an interesting change.Plato said:An interesting point.
RT @Chrisitv: Etonian, palace dwelling Archbishop says "we are putting our money where our mouth is" Will church give to credit unions?
The CoE have assets of what? Several billion?0 -
Does the Lionheart count?
He was shot and killed by an archer whilst laying siege to a castle in France, I think.
That's definitely military action, but not a battle.0 -
On topic Jonathan and Mr Pubgoer make the point that very few know who their MEPs are.
The other factor that the polling doesn't take into account is that The Euros are a risk free way for the voters to express their displeasure at the government of the day.0 -
@libdemvoice has a poll - 18% of LD members want a deal with Cons after 2015, 55% with Labour.
18% seems high.0 -
On JackW's quiz, much depends on what is meant by "killed in battle". Several kings died while on military campaigns who were not chopped down (Henry I, John and Edward I, for example). But any military historian will tell you that disease is one of the big risks of military campaigns.0
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That is in part because the current system makes them anonymous. I went to my local count for the European election when the Closed List system came in and there were a noticable number of X's placed next to Barry Seal's name. Seal had been the local MEP prior to the election but was only ranked (IIRC) fifth on Labour's list. If the system were changed to an open list, I suspect the only difference it would make would be to entrench incumbancy through name recognition. Even so, in the big picture, those votes were in a very distinct minority. Would it be different if people were enabled to vote for an individual candidate? Maybe but not by much.Jonathan said:Not sure the open list idea is more democratic. Most people understand the party brands even if they do not like them. Whereas, in general, MEP candidates are unknown to the point they may as well be on a witness protection programme.
Most people would lose the will to live on a ballot featuring 50+ names, that is if they turn out to vote at all. As such this idea totally misses the point.
On a similar note, I have my doubts about the whole exercise (even leaving aside the political agenda of those commissioning the research). Would people really spend as much time considering the options as they did in the research? Most people don't vote at Euroelections and I would be extremely surprised if many of those who do, do so based on anything other than (1) expressing a general vote for or against a particular party, (2) registering support for the headline policy of a particular party.
The danger of research like this for the Tories is that it encourages activists to believe that if only the party adopted (even) more Eurosceptic policies, voters would come flocking back. Perhaps at the 2014 election some would. For 2015, I suspect it would be the other way.0 -
If our business is anything to go by things are indeed on the up. The trick now will be to ensure that the recovery benefits everyone. As I have said a few times here before, numbers (good or bad) in and of themselves mean very little - it's people's experiences that count.0
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ONS @statisticsONS
#GDP grew by 0.6% in Q2 2013, with all main sectors of the economy experiencing growth bit.ly/1b7CVDr
Toby Young @toadmeister
.@edballsmp You're not singing, you're not singing, you're not singing any more. You're not singing any more #GE2015 #winning0 -
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Good UK growth as expected
Nice one George.0 -
I’m fairly sure Richard thought of it as a battle – I guess the definition of a ‘battle’, ie, defending the Country at home - as opposed to a jolly somewhere abroad, or military action per se, is open to question.Morris_Dancer said:Does the Lionheart count?
He was shot and killed by an archer whilst laying siege to a castle in France, I think.
That's definitely military action, but not a battle.0 -
On payday loans I heartily support the Archbishop.
Every week I spend six hours of my life working for a support group that helps the families of those in prison.
Some of these families have taken up payday loans.
Payday loans are wicked and the APRs are higher the 4,000% oft quoted.
Payday lenders allow their customers to roll over their loans each month. So they only pay the interest, so on a 400 pound loan, they pay around 100 quid a month.
Some lenders allow upto 12 deferrals, so a 400 quid loan becomes 1600 repayment.
Wicked, wicked practices on the very vulnerable in society.
Usury is a crime, kudos to Stella Creasey for taking them on.0 -
Key points
- Users are reminded that figures in this release are estimates and are on a seasonally adjusted basis.
- Gross domestic product (GDP) increased by 0.6% in Q2 2013 compared with Q1 2013.
- All four main industrial groupings within the economy (agriculture, production, construction and services) increased in Q2 2013 compared with Q1 2013.
- The largest contribution to Q2 2013 GDP growth came from services; these industries increased by 0.6% contributing 0.48 percentage points to the 0.6% increase in GDP.
- There was also an upward contribution (0.08 percentage points) from production; these industries rose by 0.6%, with manufacturing increasing by 0.4% following negative growth of 0.2% in Q1 2013.
- In Q2 2013, output in the construction industry was estimated to have increased by 0.9% compared with Q1 2013. In Q1 2013 construction output was at its lowest level since Q1 2001.
- Before the sharp fall in output in 2008 and 2009 the economy peaked in Q1 2008. From peak to trough the economy shrank by 7.2%. In Q2 2013, GDP was estimated to be 3.3% below the peak in Q1 2008.
- GDP was 1.4% higher in Q2 2013 compared with the same quarter a year ago. Q2 2012 contained an extra bank holiday for the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee. Users should therefore show caution when interpreting the quarter on same quarter a year ago growth in Q2 2013.
- The preliminary estimate of GDP is produced using the output approach to measuring GDP and is published less than four weeks after the end of the quarter to which it relates. At this stage the data content of this estimate is around 44% of the total required for the final output based estimate. This includes good information for the first two months of the quarter, with an estimate for the third month which takes account of early returns to the monthly business survey of 44,000 businesses (which typically has a response rate of between 30-50% at this point in time). The estimate is therefore subject to revisions as more data become available, but between the preliminary and third estimates of GDP, revisions are typically small (around 0.1 to 0.2 percentage points), with the frequency of upward and downward revisions broadly equal.
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@Tim
' Terry Scuoler of Engineering Employers Fed @BBCr4today warns expected rise in GDP based on consumption and debt'
So exactly the same as under New Labour, at least for 8 out of 13 years.
What happened to the triple dip you were banging on about?0 -
Faisal Islam @faisalislam
first time since q3 2010 that all 4 sectors grown in same quarter0 -
It'll probably be adjusted upwards .AveryLP said:Te Deum Laudamus.
0.6% GDP Growth in Q2 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnQj8zBnY7g
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That makes no sense, a bubble's a bubble even if it has stabilised, until it bursts or gets slowly deflated by inflation of the prices of other things. We have a socking great Brown bubble which until Osborne's latest idiocy was slowly deflating in real terms outside London.SquareRoot said:Tim
Housing bubble is your new meme, There isn't one that is noticeable where I live , if anything prices are static..but then again just about every meme you have has no basis in fact . its a lot of hot air and wasted kdp's.
I now despise Osborne as much as Brown. And he is impliedly betting that interest rates won't move up between now and GE 2015, which is brave.
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