politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Doing “Best PM” comparisons between Corbyn & Dave is like
Comments
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I think ( and hope ) you are a bit too quick off the mark Mr L.HurstLlama said:
Nah, 2017 or maybe 2018 is when the next downturn will likely hit, maybe 2019 at a pinch. They normally happen roughly every ten years or so, we dodged the one we should have had at about the turn of the century but that, probably, just made the next one early and worse.Razedabode said:
Don't forget a recession next year, too.watford30 said:
The same people are desperately hoping for a cold Winter and thousands of extra deaths in the NHS.taffys said:It suddenly strikes me that Cameron's opponents are betting very heavily politically on tax credit cuts returning the poor to the 1930s.
They had better be correct.
In normal circumstances your 10 year cycle would be spot on, but since the last downturn was late and quite severe I suspect we'll hit this one that bit later so say 2019 or 2020.
Just in time for an election.0 -
Would you care for a modest wager, Mr. Brooke? I will bet you a bottle of decent whisky that between now and 2020 Osborne, and HMG as a whole, will do nothing aimed at addressing the balance of trade in manufactured goods.Alanbrooke said:
You are making a point I have made several time re UK manufacturing. Our issue isn't so called LCCs we have large slabs of our manufactures deficit importing medium technology items from high cost coutries, Our deficit problems are structural ones rather than simply cost driven.rcs1000 said:@MaxPB
Re steel, we actually import very little steel from China - about 750,000 tonnes, out of total steel imports of perhaps 10x that. We also export about 8,000,000 tonnes of steel in a typical year.
It's very easy to say "oh, our steel industry is disadvantaged because of expensive energy". But if that's the sole factor, it's hard to reconcile with the fact that we import twice as much steel from Germany as from China, and Germany is a much, much more expensive energy market than the UK. We also import more steel from Spain, which is also a much more expensive energy market.
World steel demand, given the slowdown in China, is shrinking. This means that prices everywhere are down, and marginal plants are going to get shut. This means older plants, plants which pay a lot for energy, plants with expensive workforces, plants in high tax countries, plants which make only commodity rolled steel, and plants where it is cheap to shut down.
Solely blaming high energy prices, when we actually have energy prices that are lower than - for example - Germany, Spain, France, and Japan, is just lazy.
It remains to be seen what HMG will actually do to tackle the issue, so far GO has done very lttle.
Osborne is a political chancellor in the Brown mould, lots of clever ideas for trapping his enemies and moving money around but no interest in or clue about generating wealth.0 -
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion is relief from the grinding misery of day to day life and the promise of better to come: as long as you do what you are told and accept your fate in this life. Cover yourself in a veil and obey your husband, you'll go to heaven; accept you have nothing while the bloke in the castle has everything, including full control of your life, and you'll go to heaven. Don't kick up a fuss, take every knock you get, life is shit, but who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
I actually do get it to an extent at least. My wife is a practising catholic and there are times when I have been in church with her that I have felt a beautiful calm that I have never felt elsewhere: an old church, a timeless ritual, everyone focused on the same thing, it is certainly powerful. Those who truly do believe are very fortunate. But it's not something you can force on yourself or other people.
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I might as well send you the whiskey now :-)HurstLlama said:
Would you care for a modest wager, Mr. Brooke? I will bet you a bottle of decent whisky that between now and 2020 Osborne, and HMG as a whole, will do nothing aimed at addressing the balance of trade in manufactured goods.Alanbrooke said:
You are making a point I have made several time re UK manufacturing. Our issue isn't so called LCCs we have large slabs of our manufactures deficit importing medium technology items from high cost coutries, Our deficit problems are structural ones rather than simply cost driven.rcs1000 said:@MaxPB
Re steel, we actually import very little steel from China - about 750,000 tonnes, out of total steel imports of perhaps 10x that. We also export about 8,000,000 tonnes of steel in a typical year.
It's very easy to say "oh, our steel industry is disadvantaged because of expensive energy". But if that's the sole factor, it's hard to reconcile with the fact that we import twice as much steel from Germany as from China, and Germany is a much, much more expensive energy market than the UK. We also import more steel from Spain, which is also a much more expensive energy market.
World steel demand, given the slowdown in China, is shrinking. This means that prices everywhere are down, and marginal plants are going to get shut. This means older plants, plants which pay a lot for energy, plants with expensive workforces, plants in high tax countries, plants which make only commodity rolled steel, and plants where it is cheap to shut down.
Solely blaming high energy prices, when we actually have energy prices that are lower than - for example - Germany, Spain, France, and Japan, is just lazy.
It remains to be seen what HMG will actually do to tackle the issue, so far GO has done very lttle.
Osborne is a political chancellor in the Brown mould, lots of clever ideas for trapping his enemies and moving money around but no interest in or clue about generating wealth.0 -
Javid incompetent - ouch!Casino_Royale said:
I fear Javid is Osborne's understudy.rottenborough said:
Not Javid that's for sure. No idea why he is often touted as future leader.Casino_Royale said:
They both have their failings.rottenborough said:
Although I have a long-standing bet on May, I do wonder about her ability to be a political strategist. Osborne has this in spades. Indeed, arguably he has become too inthrall to the 'game'.Casino_Royale said:
Correct.Richard_Nabavi said:
May is more traditional and small-C conservative on social issues, and the daughter of a vicar, Osborne is a metropolitan liberal on social issues. In that sense May is probably more in tune with the classic 'Tory shire' party members, however they haven't forgiven her for giving Labour a free attack line with her 'nasty party' remarks.Danny565 said:
This is why I was mystified a few weeks ago, during the Tory conference, when people were saying Osborne would be the "centrist" choice while Theresa May would be the "core vote" choice.Richard_Nabavi said:Incidentally, on the Opinium poll, it's interesting to see the breakdown of best PM (vs Corbyn) by party. Amongst Conservative voters, Boris does better than Osborne, with May in third place.
May would surely have much more floating-voter appeal than Osborne.
On economic issues, I wouldn't have thought there was much difference between the two.
May is a poor communicator, as evidenced by the hole she dug herself into with her nasty party comments in the first place, arguably another one with her migration speech, and she waffles and sounds evasive in answering questions.
Osborne doesn't really do empathy. He sees politics as a clinical game of chess and, although he's smart with both money and tactics, looks far too pleased with himself whilst he's doing it too: he doesn't always understand the (non-political) implications of his moves.
Boris is charismatic, writes well but only really believes in himself and his ambition and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him - he's a real narcissist.
Tough choice. Who else is there?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-34579077
Edit: Click on key video to find clip.0 -
Ok, that will do. I'll send you a personal message with the address. Laphroaig please.Alanbrooke said:
I might as well send you the whiskey now :-)HurstLlama said:
Would you care for a modest wager, Mr. Brooke? I will bet you a bottle of decent whisky that between now and 2020 Osborne, and HMG as a whole, will do nothing aimed at addressing the balance of trade in manufactured goods.Alanbrooke said:
You are making a point I have made several time re UK manufacturing. Our issue isn't so called LCCs we have large slabs of our manufactures deficit importing medium technology items from high cost coutries, Our deficit problems are structural ones rather than simply cost driven.rcs1000 said:@MaxPB
Re steel, we actually import very little steel from China - about 750,000 tonnes, out of total steel imports of perhaps 10x that. We also export about 8,000,000 tonnes of steel in a typical year.
It's very easy to say "oh, our steel industry is disadvantaged because of expensive energy". But if that's the sole factor, it's hard to reconcile with the fact that we import twice as much steel from Germany as from China, and Germany is a much, much more expensive energy market than the UK. We also import more steel from Spain, which is also a much more expensive energy market.
World steel demand, given the slowdown in China, is shrinking. This means that prices everywhere are down, and marginal plants are going to get shut. This means older plants, plants which pay a lot for energy, plants with expensive workforces, plants in high tax countries, plants which make only commodity rolled steel, and plants where it is cheap to shut down.
Solely blaming high energy prices, when we actually have energy prices that are lower than - for example - Germany, Spain, France, and Japan, is just lazy.
It remains to be seen what HMG will actually do to tackle the issue, so far GO has done very lttle.
Osborne is a political chancellor in the Brown mould, lots of clever ideas for trapping his enemies and moving money around but no interest in or clue about generating wealth.0 -
For a believer, atheism is as much a wilful delusion as religious belief is to an atheist. They would argue we're seperated from the divine every day by nothing more than a fine veil. We just choose to ignore.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion is relief from the grinding misery of day to day life and the promise of better to come: as long as you do what you are told and accept your fate in this life. Cover yourself in a veil and obey your husband, you'll go to heaven; accept you have nothing while the bloke in the castle has everything, including full control of your life, and you'll go to heaven. Don't kick up a fuss, take every knock you get, life is shit, but who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
I actually do get it to an extent at least. My wife is a practising catholic and there are times when I have been in church with her that I have felt a beautiful calm that I have never felt elsewhere: an old church, a timeless ritual, everyone focused on the same thing, it is certainly powerful. Those who truly do believe are very fortunate. But it's not something you can force on yourself or other people.
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It's a wonderful thing that your wife has faith. It gives her the strength to endure a horrendous reality.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion is relief from the grinding misery of day to day life and the promise of better to come: as long as you do what you are told and accept your fate in this life. Cover yourself in a veil and obey your husband, you'll go to heaven; accept you have nothing while the bloke in the castle has everything, including full control of your life, and you'll go to heaven. Don't kick up a fuss, take every knock you get, life is shit, but who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
I actually do get it to an extent at least. My wife is a practising catholic and there are times when I have been in church with her that I have felt a beautiful calm that I have never felt elsewhere: an old church, a timeless ritual, everyone focused on the same thing, it is certainly powerful. Those who truly do believe are very fortunate. But it's not something you can force on yourself or other people.0 -
Of course I understand that. Stepping back, though, I can't help noticing how effective all religions have been in entrenching and reinforcing powerful elites.SeanT said:
Well then you should understand why Muslims will not easily relinquish their faith, however brutal or austere, even if given the vote and plasma screen TVs.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion is relief from the grinding misery of day to day life and the promise of better to come: as long as you do what you are told and accept your fate in this life. Cover yourself in a veil and obey your husband, you'll go to heaven; accept you have nothing while the bloke in the castle has everything, including full control of your life, and you'll go to heaven. Don't kick up a fuss, take every knock you get, life is shit, but who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
I actually do get it to an extent at least. My wife is a practising catholic and there are times when I have been in church with her that I have felt a beautiful calm that I have never felt elsewhere: an old church, a timeless ritual, everyone focused on the same thing, it is certainly powerful. Those who truly do believe are very fortunate. But it's not something you can force on yourself or other people.
It's not because they're stupid, not because they've been fed some "opium", it's got nothing to do with power - derrr - it's because their religion is, to them, a beautiful thing which gives life rich significance. Which is why their faith isn't going anywhere. Which is why we need to be very careful importing millions of believers, who belong to a religion becoming more medieval by the day.
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Despite all the similarities, there is one very fundamental difference between the Koran and Christianity which is critical in this argument. And it is the "render unto God, render unto Caesar" doctrine, which Islam does not have. That makes it very very difficult for it to accept secularism or, indeed, to create any sort of Muslim state based on religious laws which does not ipso facto facto make non-Muslims second-class citizens and democracy problematic. How can I vote to change laws if those laws are said to be based on the word of God?Philip_Thompson said:
Our culture has Judaeo-Christian influences but is far more than just that. It has Graeco-Roman traditions that pre-date Christianity, it has modern post-reformation traditions that have come from liberal thinking. It has original English thinking that we have evolved uniquely and independently. It is a complete melting pot.SeanT said:
If you want to live in a partly Islamised Europe, that's fine and dandy. I don't. Nor do most Europeans.Philip_Thompson said:
.SeanT said:Meanwhile 40% of them think the Koran should be accepted as part of Danish law, 10% want Denmark's legislation to be entirely Islamic.
I have a suspicion that just as many Christians look at our law and see Christianity in traditions that actually pre-date Christianity and date back to Graeco-Roman traditions, so too many of the 40% may not actually want changes but see similar influences related to the Koran (which is essentially very, very similar to Judaeo-Christian laws anyway).
I no more want to live in an Islamic State like the 10% are proposing than I want to live in an absolute and fundamental Christian one - which we don't.
It took the Western world blood, sweat, tears and wars to get to a stage where laws are based on the will of the people expressed through election rather than on the basis of a cleric's interpretation of a holy book or one particular version of it. Having Muslims in the West who fundamentally want to overturn that basic assumption about our democracy and political settlement is a big problem. Either they change or we do. I don't want us to change this. So they will have to or live somewhere more congenial to their views.
Also much of Christian thought is a deliberate fusion of the Christian and Hellenistic traditions: both Christ and Aristotle, as Thomas Aquinas might have put it. It is very much part of Western thought in a way and to an extent which Islamic thought is not.
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Seek helpnotme said:
She has a turn in her right eye though (from that picture).SeanT said:
In related news, Marion Le Pen, the rising star of the FN (and Jean Marie's granddaughter) is seriously beautifultaffys said:''Absolutely ridiculous.''
And asbsolutely counterproductive.
http://imworld.aufeminin.com/story/20140501/marion-marechal-le-pen-223023_w1000.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/617799574267260928/ZsY--Riu_400x400.jpg0 -
Ha, ha - very good. I deserved that :-)MonikerDiCanio said:
It's a wonderful thing that your wife has faith. It gives her the strength to endure a horrendous reality.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion is relief from the grinding misery of day to day life and the promise of better to come: as long as you do what you are told and accept your fate in this life. Cover yourself in a veil and obey your husband, you'll go to heaven; accept you have nothing while the bloke in the castle has everything, including full control of your life, and you'll go to heaven. Don't kick up a fuss, take every knock you get, life is shit, but who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
I actually do get it to an extent at least. My wife is a practising catholic and there are times when I have been in church with her that I have felt a beautiful calm that I have never felt elsewhere: an old church, a timeless ritual, everyone focused on the same thing, it is certainly powerful. Those who truly do believe are very fortunate. But it's not something you can force on yourself or other people.
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That is factually true.SeanT said:
Looking back, the bitter truth is that the world would be a better place if Mubarak, Gadaffi, Assad and Saddam Hussein still held unquestioned power.MaxPB said:
I think we backed the uprising, but then withdrew support from Morsi and backed al-Sisi. Obama did not back al-Sisi initially claiming that Morsi was the elected leader, but after Morsi threatened trade with Israel I think the US shut up as well.Luckyguy1983 said:
It is. Again I'm not sure who you mean by 'we', but I'd be interested to hear how 'we' opposed Morsi or backed either Mubarak (when he was being deposed) or Sisi. To my recollection the opposite was true.JEO said:
Egypt had a secular government, but the opinions of its people are some of the most extremely religious in the whole world. And the idea we were supporting bombing them is nonsense: we propped up Mubarak for years, opposed Morsi, and now back Sisi again. I would have thought that is exactly what someone of your views supports, seeing that's what you call for in Syria.Luckyguy1983 said:
Slightly ironic then that we're in the process of supporting uprisings/bombing the moderate Muslim countries and turning them into extreme ones. This applies to Libya, Syria, would have applied to Egypt, and arguably even applies to Iraq.
It's unfortunate, but compared with medieval islam, military dictatorship is actually a few centuries ahead in social development in comparison, though still behind democratic societies.
Some societies though are still too primitive to become democratic, in the middle east it's only in the past 40-50 years that they are living in a modern environment.0 -
I really don't think the belief that everything will be alright in Heaven is a primary motivator in religious faith. It's more the transcendent experience of the divine and the love of God. But I completely understand that's a meaningless thing to someone who hasn't felt they've experience it. It would be like explaining colour to a person who only sees in black and white.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion is relief from the grinding misery of day to day life and the promise of better to come: as long as you do what you are told and accept your fate in this life. Cover yourself in a veil and obey your husband, you'll go to heaven; accept you have nothing while the bloke in the castle has everything, including full control of your life, and you'll go to heaven. Don't kick up a fuss, take every knock you get, life is shit, but who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
I actually do get it to an extent at least. My wife is a practising catholic and there are times when I have been in church with her that I have felt a beautiful calm that I have never felt elsewhere: an old church, a timeless ritual, everyone focused on the same thing, it is certainly powerful. Those who truly do believe are very fortunate. But it's not something you can force on yourself or other people.0 -
You might want to reflect on that last sentence, Mr Observer. Are you sure that you are not putting the cart before the horse? Perhap some elites have used the religion of the people to entrench their own position. Secondly, all religions, you can't think of exceptions? Thirdly, powerful elites have always existed, as long as humans have lived in societies there have been those at the top with the power; religion, I suggest, has nothing to do with it.SouthamObserver said:
Of course I understand that. Stepping back, though, I can't help noticing how effective all religions have been in entrenching and reinforcing powerful elites.0 -
You're letting Spain influence you too much. Desmond Tutu, John Paul 2 in E Europe even the Ayatollah Khomeni did anything but reinforce the local elite and stop discontent.SouthamObserver said:
Of course I understand that. Stepping back, though, I can't help noticing how effective all religions have been in entrenching and reinforcing powerful elites.SeanT said:
Well then you should understand why Muslims will not easily relinquish their faith, however brutal or austere, even if given the vote and plasma screen TVs.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion ut who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
It's not because they're stupid, not because they've been fed some "opium", it's got nothing to do with power - derrr - it's because their religion is, to them, a beautiful thing which gives life rich significance. Which is why their faith isn't going anywhere. Which is why we need to be very careful importing millions of believers, who belong to a religion becoming more medieval by the day.0 -
Things were better when morality was the preserve of philosophy, and religion was reserved for ritual and ceremony. The 1st or 2nd century Roman Empire had a more enlightened approach to religion than much of the modern world.
Which reminds me, I must sacrifice a goat to Apollo.0 -
The important difference is that Scotland is not pretending it is an important player at the top table when kowtowing for some trade businesses. The UK tries to maintain that pretence till events like today show just how delusional that attitude is.malcolmg said:
Your usual pompous self I see. Where did I say Alex Salmond was perfect. I merely stated an obvious fact , ie the establishment in London are kissing butt big style, they will do and say anything to try and get the Chinese to be their chums, as ever all principles out of the window aka Saudia Arabia.antifrank said:
Indeed, using google to search for "Alex Salmond" and Chinese, the top result is this:Luckyguy1983 said:
As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.Dair said:I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.
Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-on-china-mission-to-kick-start-recovery-1-3170823#axzz3p6yG2KOy
The word "kowtowing" features in the first sentence.
It seems that the Scottish nationalists are so obsessed in their hatred of the UK that they're prepared to make themselves look idiotic in their inconsistency.0 -
Is it called Lord Adonis ?Morris_Dancer said:Things were better when morality was the preserve of philosophy, and religion was reserved for ritual and ceremony. The 1st or 2nd century Roman Empire had a more enlightened approach to religion than much of the modern world.
Which reminds me, I must sacrifice a goat to Apollo.0 -
Islam is a wonderful tool like all religions to create a civilization out of nothing (that is the inspiration behind the play "The Book of Mormon").SeanT said:
Well then you should understand why Muslims will not easily relinquish their faith, however brutal or austere, even if given the vote and plasma screen TVs.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
I actually do get it to an extent at least. My wife is a practising catholic and there are times when I have been in church with her that I have felt a beautiful calm that I have never felt elsewhere: an old church, a timeless ritual, everyone focused on the same thing, it is certainly powerful. Those who truly do believe are very fortunate. But it's not something you can force on yourself or other people.
It's not because they're stupid, not because they've been fed some "opium", it's got nothing to do with power - derrr - it's because their religion is, to them, a beautiful thing which gives life rich significance. Which is why their faith isn't going anywhere. Which is why we need to be very careful importing millions of believers, who belong to a religion becoming more medieval by the day.
It's designed to be a very successful one, it gives absolute power to young men because it needs soldiers to expand, it has a whole set of laws and regulations needed to build an administration and a functioning bureaucracy, but it stops at the medieval level since it has been unreformed since then.
Islam is fine if you want to create a 7th century society but not a 21st one.0 -
JP2 challenged one elite but promoted another - the priesthood; ditto the Ayatollah and the Imams. Not sure about Des.Alanbrooke said:
You're letting Spain influence you too much. Desmond Tutu, John Paul 2 in E Europe even the Ayatollah Khomeni did anything but reinforce the local elite and stop discontent.SouthamObserver said:
Of course I understand that. Stepping back, though, I can't help noticing how effective all religions have been in entrenching and reinforcing powerful elites.SeanT said:
Well then you should understand why Muslims will not easily relinquish their faith, however brutal or austere, even if given the vote and plasma screen TVs.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion ut who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
It's not because they're stupid, not because they've been fed some "opium", it's got nothing to do with power - derrr - it's because their religion is, to them, a beautiful thing which gives life rich significance. Which is why their faith isn't going anywhere. Which is why we need to be very careful importing millions of believers, who belong to a religion becoming more medieval by the day.
0 -
Quite. For several centuries Christianity was the bane of the powerful in the Roman Empire, spreading mainly among the poor. The fact it was later co-opted by the powerful elite is an indictment of the elite, not of the faith.HurstLlama said:
You might want to reflect on that last sentence, Mr Observer. Are you sure that you are not putting the cart before the horse? Perhap some elites have used the religion of the people to entrench their own position. Secondly, all religions, you can't think of exceptions? Thirdly, powerful elites have always existed, as long as humans have lived in societies there have been those at the top with the power; religion, I suggest, has nothing to do with it.SouthamObserver said:
Of course I understand that. Stepping back, though, I can't help noticing how effective all religions have been in entrenching and reinforcing powerful elites.0 -
That's only because you don't get to meet any major nations.Dair said:
The important difference is that Scotland is not pretending it is an important player at the top table when kowtowing for some trade businesses. The UK tries to maintain that pretence till events like today show just how delusional that attitude is.malcolmg said:
Your usual pompous self I see. Where did I say Alex Salmond was perfect. I merely stated an obvious fact , ie the establishment in London are kissing butt big style, they will do and say anything to try and get the Chinese to be their chums, as ever all principles out of the window aka Saudia Arabia.antifrank said:
Indeed, using google to search for "Alex Salmond" and Chinese, the top result is this:Luckyguy1983 said:
As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.Dair said:I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.
Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-on-china-mission-to-kick-start-recovery-1-3170823#axzz3p6yG2KOy
The word "kowtowing" features in the first sentence.
It seems that the Scottish nationalists are so obsessed in their hatred of the UK that they're prepared to make themselves look idiotic in their inconsistency.
Salmond spent his time kowtowing to Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch.0 -
I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
But that's OK right? it feelz right. And its about poor people, innit. There won;t be any political implications, right?0 -
I have no doubt that religion has been hijacked to serve many purposes. I genuinely cannot think of a religion that does not, to some extent at least, involve a hierarchy of some kind. But I freely admit I am not an expert. And I also feely admit that religion has done tremendous good.HurstLlama said:
You might want to reflect on that last sentence, Mr Observer. Are you sure that you are not putting the cart before the horse? Perhap some elites have used the religion of the people to entrench their own position. Secondly, all religions, you can't think of exceptions? Thirdly, powerful elites have always existed, as long as humans have lived in societies there have been those at the top with the power; religion, I suggest, has nothing to do with it.SouthamObserver said:
Of course I understand that. Stepping back, though, I can't help noticing how effective all religions have been in entrenching and reinforcing powerful elites.
0 -
The problem, as I see it, is that these sort of strongman dictators are like dams holding back rivers behind them. Eventually they burst, whether or not we assist in taking them down.SeanT said:
Looking back, the bitter truth is that the world would be a better place if Mubarak, Gadaffi, Assad and Saddam Hussein still held unquestioned power.MaxPB said:
I think we backed the uprising, but then withdrew support from Morsi and backed al-Sisi. Obama did not back al-Sisi initially claiming that Morsi was the elected leader, but after Morsi threatened trade with Israel I think the US shut up as well.Luckyguy1983 said:
It is. Again I'm not sure who you mean by 'we', but I'd be interested to hear how 'we' opposed Morsi or backed either Mubarak (when he was being deposed) or Sisi. To my recollection the opposite was true.JEO said:
Egypt had a secular government, but the opinions of its people are some of the most extremely religious in the whole world. And the idea we were supporting bombing them is nonsense: we propped up Mubarak for years, opposed Morsi, and now back Sisi again. I would have thought that is exactly what someone of your views supports, seeing that's what you call for in Syria.Luckyguy1983 said:
Slightly ironic then that we're in the process of supporting uprisings/bombing the moderate Muslim countries and turning them into extreme ones. This applies to Libya, Syria, would have applied to Egypt, and arguably even applies to Iraq.0 -
It's not meaningless to me. It just feels unobtainable. I have sat in churches hoping for it. But it has never come.JEO said:
I really don't think the belief that everything will be alright in Heaven is a primary motivator in religious faith. It's more the transcendent experience of the divine and the love of God. But I completely understand that's a meaningless thing to someone who hasn't felt they've experience it. It would be like explaining colour to a person who only sees in black and white.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion is relief from the grinding misery of day to day life and the promise of better to come: as long as you do what you are told and accept your fate in this life. Cover yourself in a veil and obey your husband, you'll go to heaven; accept you have nothing while the bloke in the castle has everything, including full control of your life, and you'll go to heaven. Don't kick up a fuss, take every knock you get, life is shit, but who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
I actually do get it to an extent at least. My wife is a practising catholic and there are times when I have been in church with her that I have felt a beautiful calm that I have never felt elsewhere: an old church, a timeless ritual, everyone focused on the same thing, it is certainly powerful. Those who truly do believe are very fortunate. But it's not something you can force on yourself or other people.
0 -
Mr. Brooke, I tend not to talk to the sacrifices. Goats aren't great conversationalists, anyway.0
-
Congregationalist Christianity does not have a hierarchy, by definition.SouthamObserver said:
I have no doubt that religion has been hijacked to serve many purposes. I genuinely cannot think of a religion that does not, to some extent at least, involve a hierarchy of some kind. But I freely admit I am not an expert. And I also feely admit that religion has done tremendous good.HurstLlama said:
You might want to reflect on that last sentence, Mr Observer. Are you sure that you are not putting the cart before the horse? Perhap some elites have used the religion of the people to entrench their own position. Secondly, all religions, you can't think of exceptions? Thirdly, powerful elites have always existed, as long as humans have lived in societies there have been those at the top with the power; religion, I suggest, has nothing to do with it.SouthamObserver said:
Of course I understand that. Stepping back, though, I can't help noticing how effective all religions have been in entrenching and reinforcing powerful elites.0 -
0
-
No but they have other talents. (Winks)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Brooke, I tend not to talk to the sacrifices. Goats aren't great conversationalists, anyway.
0 -
Turning a little bit on topic, about the Trump Corbyn comparison it starts to look relatable not only with the discontent by the party base over years or decades of being frustrated by the party leaderships, but also now in internal party polling. Today it's the first poll that has Trump hitting 40% in the GOP primaries:
http://morningconsult.com/2015/10/poll-clintons-image-improves-after-debate/
Almost all the polls now have Trump on the rise once more.0 -
Mr. Taffys, it's Farron, being a muppet. One might as well complain of a skunk's odour.
He's probably trying to deliberate damage the Lords to encourage reform. Of course, if Clegg hadn't offered a reform that was the work of a delinquent then the Lords might have been reformed already.0 -
Mr. 1000, now I'm wondering if Prince Ludwig the Indestructible will join pb.com.0
-
Muslims here are not badly treated. If complain that *as Muslims* they are badly treated in Western democracies, it is highly relevant to point out their lives are so much better here than in majority-Muslim countries. And it is very relevant to focus on the religious freedoms which they enjoy here, rather than in such countries.bondegezou said:
I really don't see how that rebuttal makes much sense. I think that in general there are few places where it is better to be *anything* than in a Western country. That doesn't stop the vast majority of the population complaining about things, because we don't all live our lives thinking about how much better off we are than had we been born in Somalia/Sudan/Syria. Maybe we should, but we don't. It is surely better to be a Conservative here than in China or Ethiopia or Canada, but Conservatives still moan about this and that and want things to be more Conservative.Sean_F said:
I think that in general, there are few places where it is better to be a Muslim than in a Western country. There is a high standard of living, you don't get persecuted for following the wrong brand of Islam, and you enjoy a large measure of religious freedom. Nor do you run the risk of barbaric punishments for violating religious laws.bondegezou said:If Muslims are becoming less keen on assimilating (and I'm not putting any faith in anything published on RT.com!), might that be because they've had over a decade of the rest of us continuously criticising them? Integration seemed to be more successful before Islamophobia became so rampant. Aggressively tell people not to wear headscarves and, guess what, people start wanting to wear headscarves. Put any group under external pressure and they will turn to each other and fall back on their traditions.
.
So, I don't really accept the argument that it's down to us.
Muslims here are going to respond to how they are treated, just as Eurosceptics here or Scottish nationalists or naturists or train-spotters respond to how they are treated. Treat a group in a particular way, and they will respond.
It's not about treating any of these groups better than they would be treated in some distant country. It's about how members of these groups here are treated compared to how other people here are treated.
If everyone makes a big fuss about headscarves, then people assume headscarf wearing is a really important thing.
Your view seems to be that criticising any aspect of the behaviour of some Muslims, however abhorrent, somehow makes us the bad guys.
I think you're just playing devil's advocate.0 -
''I think you're just playing devil's advocate. ''
Maybe. Next year, one of the two main Mayoral candidates (a muslim) will propose that we allow positive discrimination for, amongst others, muslims.
How can anyone argue that muslims aren;t well treated in a society like that, by absolutely any standards??0 -
Sayeeda Warsi and Tim Montgomerie both now want a tax credit rethink, so the government must be correct.0
-
Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch are far more likely to deliver jobs than these camera puff pieces and announcement of utterly meaningless made up numbers that get reported whenever one leader meets another.Alanbrooke said:
That's only because you don't get to meet any major nations.Dair said:
The important difference is that Scotland is not pretending it is an important player at the top table when kowtowing for some trade businesses. The UK tries to maintain that pretence till events like today show just how delusional that attitude is.malcolmg said:
Your usual pompous self I see. Where did I say Alex Salmond was perfect. I merely stated an obvious fact , ie the establishment in London are kissing butt big style, they will do and say anything to try and get the Chinese to be their chums, as ever all principles out of the window aka Saudia Arabia.antifrank said:
Indeed, using google to search for "Alex Salmond" and Chinese, the top result is this:Luckyguy1983 said:
As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.Dair said:I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.
Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-on-china-mission-to-kick-start-recovery-1-3170823#axzz3p6yG2KOy
The word "kowtowing" features in the first sentence.
It seems that the Scottish nationalists are so obsessed in their hatred of the UK that they're prepared to make themselves look idiotic in their inconsistency.
Salmond spent his time kowtowing to Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch.0 -
I'm sure Goodwin caused a net loss of jobs over his career!Dair said:
Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch are far more likely to deliver jobs than these camera puff pieces and announcement of utterly meaningless made up numbers that get reported whenever one leader meets another.Alanbrooke said:
That's only because you don't get to meet any major nations.Dair said:
The important difference is that Scotland is not pretending it is an important player at the top table when kowtowing for some trade businesses. The UK tries to maintain that pretence till events like today show just how delusional that attitude is.malcolmg said:
Your usual pompous self I see. Where did I say Alex Salmond was perfect. I merely stated an obvious fact , ie the establishment in London are kissing butt big style, they will do and say anything to try and get the Chinese to be their chums, as ever all principles out of the window aka Saudia Arabia.antifrank said:
Indeed, using google to search for "Alex Salmond" and Chinese, the top result is this:Luckyguy1983 said:
As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.Dair said:I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.
Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-on-china-mission-to-kick-start-recovery-1-3170823#axzz3p6yG2KOy
The word "kowtowing" features in the first sentence.
It seems that the Scottish nationalists are so obsessed in their hatred of the UK that they're prepared to make themselves look idiotic in their inconsistency.
Salmond spent his time kowtowing to Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch.0 -
Would be an interesting calculation.RobD said:
I'm sure Goodwin caused a net loss of jobs over his career!Dair said:Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch are far more likely to deliver jobs than these camera puff pieces and announcement of utterly meaningless made up numbers that get reported whenever one leader meets another.
0 -
Goodwin wrecked more jobs than Salmond can ever create.Dair said:
Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch are far more likely to deliver jobs than these camera puff pieces and announcement of utterly meaningless made up numbers that get reported whenever one leader meets another.Alanbrooke said:
That's only because you don't get to meet any major nations.Dair said:
The important difference is that Scotland is not pretending it is an important player at the top table when kowtowing for some trade businesses. The UK tries to maintain that pretence till events like today show just how delusional that attitude is.malcolmg said:
Your usual pompous self I see. Where did I say Alex Salmond was perfect. I merely stated an obvious fact , ie the establishment in London are kissing butt big style, they will do and say anything to try and get the Chinese to be their chums, as ever all principles out of the window aka Saudia Arabia.antifrank said:
Indeed, using google to search for "Alex Salmond" and Chinese, the top result is this:Luckyguy1983 said:
As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.Dair said:I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.
Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-on-china-mission-to-kick-start-recovery-1-3170823#axzz3p6yG2KOy
The word "kowtowing" features in the first sentence.
It seems that the Scottish nationalists are so obsessed in their hatred of the UK that they're prepared to make themselves look idiotic in their inconsistency.
Salmond spent his time kowtowing to Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch.
As for Trump and Murdoch well they seek pliable politicians with low tax expectations.
Sums up the SNP.0 -
-
Corbyn seems friendly enough, one wonders what they chatted about.Danny565 said:0 -
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.Alanbrooke said:
Goodwin wrecked more jobs than Salmond can ever create.Dair said:
Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch are far more likely to deliver jobs than these camera puff pieces and announcement of utterly meaningless made up numbers that get reported whenever one leader meets another.Alanbrooke said:
That's only because you don't get to meet any major nations.Dair said:
The important difference is that Scotland is not pretending it is an important player at the top table when kowtowing for some trade businesses. The UK tries to maintain that pretence till events like today show just how delusional that attitude is.malcolmg said:
Your usual pompous self I see. Where did I say Alex Salmond was perfect. I merely stated an obvious fact , ie the establishment in London are kissing butt big style, they will do and say anything to try and get the Chinese to be their chums, as ever all principles out of the window aka Saudia Arabia.antifrank said:
Indeed, using google to search for "Alex Salmond" and Chinese, the top result is this:Luckyguy1983 said:
As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.Dair said:I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.
Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-on-china-mission-to-kick-start-recovery-1-3170823#axzz3p6yG2KOy
The word "kowtowing" features in the first sentence.
It seems that the Scottish nationalists are so obsessed in their hatred of the UK that they're prepared to make themselves look idiotic in their inconsistency.
Salmond spent his time kowtowing to Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch.
As for Trump and Murdoch well they seek pliable politicians with low tax expectations.
Sums up the SNP.0 -
LOL why should we worry, if you ever got Indy the germans wouldn't let you do itDair said:
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.Alanbrooke said:
Goodwin wrecked more jobs than Salmond can ever create.Dair said:
Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch are far more likely to deliver jobs than these camera puff pieces and announcement of utterly meaningless made up numbers that get reported whenever one leader meets another.Alanbrooke said:
That's only because you don't get to meet any major nations.Dair said:
The important difference is that Scotland is not pretending it is an important player at the top table when kowtowing for some trade businesses. The UK tries to maintain that pretence till events like today show just how delusional that attitude is.malcolmg said:
Your usual pompous self I see. Where did I say Alex Salmond was perfect. I merely stated an obvious fact , ie the establishment in London are kissing butt big style, they will do and say anything to try and get the Chinese to be their chums, as ever all principles out of the window aka Saudia Arabia.antifrank said:
Indeed, using google to search for "Alex Salmond" and Chinese, the top result is this:Luckyguy1983 said:
As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.Dair said:I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.
Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-on-china-mission-to-kick-start-recovery-1-3170823#axzz3p6yG2KOy
The word "kowtowing" features in the first sentence.
It seems that the Scottish nationalists are so obsessed in their hatred of the UK that they're prepared to make themselves look idiotic in their inconsistency.
Salmond spent his time kowtowing to Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch.
As for Trump and Murdoch well they seek pliable politicians with low tax expectations.
Sums up the SNP.
#huendinnen0 -
Just watching ITV as the steel jobs go in Scotland.
SNP ordered the steel for the Forth Bridge from China.0 -
We PB Tories are infallible, and can hold two positions at once without contradictionDair said:
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.Alanbrooke said:
Goodwin wrecked more jobs than Salmond can ever create.Dair said:
Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch are far more likely to deliver jobs than these camera puff pieces and announcement of utterly meaningless made up numbers that get reported whenever one leader meets another.Alanbrooke said:
That's only because you don't get to meet any major nations.Dair said:
The important difference is that Scotland is not pretending it is an important player at the top table when kowtowing for some trade businesses. The UK tries to maintain that pretence till events like today show just how delusional that attitude is.malcolmg said:
Your usual pompous self I see. Where did I say Alex Salmond was perfect. I merely stated an obvious fact , ie the establishment in London are kissing butt big style, they will do and say anything to try and get the Chinese to be their chums, as ever all principles out of the window aka Saudia Arabia.antifrank said:
Indeed, using google to search for "Alex Salmond" and Chinese, the top result is this:Luckyguy1983 said:
As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.Dair said:I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.
Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-on-china-mission-to-kick-start-recovery-1-3170823#axzz3p6yG2KOy
The word "kowtowing" features in the first sentence.
It seems that the Scottish nationalists are so obsessed in their hatred of the UK that they're prepared to make themselves look idiotic in their inconsistency.
Salmond spent his time kowtowing to Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch.
As for Trump and Murdoch well they seek pliable politicians with low tax expectations.
Sums up the SNP.
0 -
Goodwin, the man who crashed a bank? A job creator?!!! Ha Ha Ha.Dair said:
Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch are far more likely to deliver jobs than these camera puff pieces and announcement of utterly meaningless made up numbers that get reported whenever one leader meets another.Alanbrooke said:
That's only because you don't get to meet any major nations.Dair said:
The important difference is that Scotland is not pretending it is an important player at the top table when kowtowing for some trade businesses. The UK tries to maintain that pretence till events like today show just how delusional that attitude is.malcolmg said:
Your usual pompous self I see. Where did I say Alex Salmond was perfect. I merely stated an obvious fact , ie the establishment in London are kissing butt big style, they will do and say anything to try and get the Chinese to be their chums, as ever all principles out of the window aka Saudia Arabia.antifrank said:
Indeed, using google to search for "Alex Salmond" and Chinese, the top result is this:Luckyguy1983 said:
As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.Dair said:I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.
Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-on-china-mission-to-kick-start-recovery-1-3170823#axzz3p6yG2KOy
The word "kowtowing" features in the first sentence.
It seems that the Scottish nationalists are so obsessed in their hatred of the UK that they're prepared to make themselves look idiotic in their inconsistency.
Salmond spent his time kowtowing to Goodwin, Trump and Murdoch.0 -
The way the Germans and the British did when they got Ireland to raise its corporation tax rate?Alanbrooke said:
LOL why should we worry, if you ever got Indy the germans wouldn't let you do itDair said:
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.
#huendinnen
Oh wait. They didn't use their leverage at all. And that was with a failed economy in Ireland desperate for tens of billions of Euros (predominantly from the UK whose corporation tax they were untercutting). The most likely economic failure post Dissolution would be the rUK.0 -
Different kind of steel.Alanbrooke said:Just watching ITV as the steel jobs go in Scotland.
SNP ordered the steel for the Forth Bridge from China.0 -
Looks like Marine Le Pen is off the hook on charges of racism
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2015/10/20/01016-20151020ARTFIG00295-prieres-de-rue-relaxe-requise-pour-marine-le-pen.php0 -
Incompetent purchasing.Dair said:
Different kind of steel.Alanbrooke said:Just watching ITV as the steel jobs go in Scotland.
SNP ordered the steel for the Forth Bridge from China.0 -
Really you should keep up.Dair said:
The way the Germans and the British did when they got Ireland to raise its corporation tax rate?Alanbrooke said:
LOL why should we worry, if you ever got Indy the germans wouldn't let you do itDair said:
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.
#huendinnen
Oh wait. They didn't use their leverage at all. And that was with a failed economy in Ireland desperate for tens of billions of Euros (predominantly from the UK whose corporation tax they were untercutting). The most likely economic failure post Dissolution would be the rUK.
Going in is different than being in and the debate on Ireland's tax isn't over just resting.0 -
@Barnesian - I don't think he's incompetent; I just think he offers nothing new.
Who am I finding most interesting right now? Michael Gove and Johnny Mercer.
Gove is too funny-looking and sounding to be PM (unfair but true) and far too single-minded to listen. However, Mercer I could actually see becoming a future PM, but I don't know how strong his people leadership and administrative skills are. Also, his philosophy.
Right now I'd say the Tories have a string of effective first lieutenants but no obvious PM-in-waiting.0 -
Hahahahahaha.Alanbrooke said:
Really you should keep up.Dair said:
The way the Germans and the British did when they got Ireland to raise its corporation tax rate?Alanbrooke said:
LOL why should we worry, if you ever got Indy the germans wouldn't let you do itDair said:
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.
#huendinnen
Oh wait. They didn't use their leverage at all. And that was with a failed economy in Ireland desperate for tens of billions of Euros (predominantly from the UK whose corporation tax they were untercutting). The most likely economic failure post Dissolution would be the rUK.
Going in is different than being in and the debate on Ireland's tax isn't over just resting.
Resting. The UK were offering Ireland a loan of £80bn which Ireland desperately needed and failed to leverage an increase in Irish Corporation Tax. If they didn't get them to change it then, they never will.0 -
It seems my lovely local MP's been upsetting the horses.
0 -
Still they gave the contract for steel fabrication to Polish, Spanish and Chinese companies and bought German concrete from Hochtief rather than that made by Lafarge in Dunbar. So much for 'Buying Scottish'.Dair said:
Different kind of steel.Alanbrooke said:Just watching ITV as the steel jobs go in Scotland.
SNP ordered the steel for the Forth Bridge from China.
They'll be awarding water supply contracts to foreign companies next. Oh wait, they already have.0 -
The issue is moving along with international efforts to harmonise tax to stop havens like Luxembourg creaming off revenues for sweet deals. It will happen by which time no doubt there'll be another massive hole in SNP calculations.Dair said:
Hahahahahaha.Alanbrooke said:
Really you should keep up.Dair said:
The way the Germans and the British did when they got Ireland to raise its corporation tax rate?Alanbrooke said:
LOL why should we worry, if you ever got Indy the germans wouldn't let you do itDair said:
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.
#huendinnen
Oh wait. They didn't use their leverage at all. And that was with a failed economy in Ireland desperate for tens of billions of Euros (predominantly from the UK whose corporation tax they were untercutting). The most likely economic failure post Dissolution would be the rUK.
Going in is different than being in and the debate on Ireland's tax isn't over just resting.
Resting. The UK were offering Ireland a loan of £80bn which Ireland desperately needed and failed to leverage an increase in Irish Corporation Tax. If they didn't get them to change it then, they never will.
too stupid -it's the killer every time.0 -
ST makes "drugs" and "religion" sound interchangeable. I haven't thought of them like that before but it's kinda true isn't it.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion is relief from the grinding misery of day to day life and the promise of better to come: as long as you do what you are told and accept your fate in this life. Cover yourself in a veil and obey your husband, you'll go to heaven; accept you have nothing while the bloke in the castle has everything, including full control of your life, and you'll go to heaven. Don't kick up a fuss, take every knock you get, life is shit, but who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
I actually do get it to an extent at least. My wife is a practising catholic and there are times when I have been in church with her that I have felt a beautiful calm that I have never felt elsewhere: an old church, a timeless ritual, everyone focused on the same thing, it is certainly powerful. Those who truly do believe are very fortunate. But it's not something you can force on yourself or other people.0 -
Ooo-err.SouthamObserver said:
Ice cold. She'd look great in a well cut, charcoal grey uniform. But I would want to make sure my papers were in order before questioning.SeanT said:
The perfect flaw. Like a beauty spot.notme said:
She has a turn in her right eye though (from that picture).SeanT said:
In related news, Marion Le Pen, the rising star of the FN (and Jean Marie's granddaughter) is seriously beautifultaffys said:''Absolutely ridiculous.''
And asbsolutely counterproductive.
http://imworld.aufeminin.com/story/20140501/marion-marechal-le-pen-223023_w1000.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/617799574267260928/ZsY--Riu_400x400.jpg
She really is hot.
http://marionlepen.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/0-2.jpg
Love this one of her twirling her hair in the regional parliament (or somewhere). Ooof.
http://lahorde.samizdat.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Marion-Marechal-Le-Pen.jpg0 -
Look away from the current front benchers. The next Conservative leader will not be Boris, Osborne (*) or May.Casino_Royale said:@Barnesian - I don't think he's incompetent; I just think he offers nothing new.
Who am I finding most interesting right now? Michael Gove and Johnny Mercer.
Gove is too funny-looking and sounding to be PM (unfair but true) and far too single-minded to listen. However, Mercer I could actually see becoming a future PM, but I don't know how strong his people leadership and administrative skills are. Also, his philosophy.
Right now I'd say the Tories have a string of effective first lieutenants but no obvious PM-in-waiting.
(*) I'm not even sure he actually wants the top job. Unlike Boris, who does.0 -
I pointed this out at the time, I still think it was amazing that we gave Ireland the loan whilst their corporation tax undercuts us.Dair said:
Hahahahahaha.Alanbrooke said:
Really you should keep up.Dair said:
The way the Germans and the British did when they got Ireland to raise its corporation tax rate?Alanbrooke said:
LOL why should we worry, if you ever got Indy the germans wouldn't let you do itDair said:
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.
#huendinnen
Oh wait. They didn't use their leverage at all. And that was with a failed economy in Ireland desperate for tens of billions of Euros (predominantly from the UK whose corporation tax they were untercutting). The most likely economic failure post Dissolution would be the rUK.
Going in is different than being in and the debate on Ireland's tax isn't over just resting.
Resting. The UK were offering Ireland a loan of £80bn which Ireland desperately needed and failed to leverage an increase in Irish Corporation Tax. If they didn't get them to change it then, they never will.0 -
So you are advocating a Cartel to artificially inflate World Tax Rates against the forces of the Free Market.Alanbrooke said:
The issue is moving along with international efforts to harmonise tax to stop havens like Luxembourg creaming off revenues for sweet deals. It will happen by which time no doubt there'll be another massive hole in SNP calculations.Dair said:
Hahahahahaha.Alanbrooke said:
Really you should keep up.Dair said:
The way the Germans and the British did when they got Ireland to raise its corporation tax rate?Alanbrooke said:
LOL why should we worry, if you ever got Indy the germans wouldn't let you do itDair said:
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.
#huendinnen
Oh wait. They didn't use their leverage at all. And that was with a failed economy in Ireland desperate for tens of billions of Euros (predominantly from the UK whose corporation tax they were untercutting). The most likely economic failure post Dissolution would be the rUK.
Going in is different than being in and the debate on Ireland's tax isn't over just resting.
Resting. The UK were offering Ireland a loan of £80bn which Ireland desperately needed and failed to leverage an increase in Irish Corporation Tax. If they didn't get them to change it then, they never will.
too stupid -it's the killer every time.
Damn these PB Tories really aren't distinguishable from the worst of the Socialist International.0 -
OMG - it gets funnier !!
@georgeeaton: Seumas Milne set to be announced as Jeremy Corbyn's director of communications, Labour sources confirm to me.0 -
Separation or otherwise, you must see that the success of Scotland and the success of England are inextricably tied. If England failed economically, an independent Scotland would be pretty quick to follow. But you nourish a fantasy that Scotland can succeed and England fail, so you can satisfy your pathological resentment. I feel really sorry for you, because you'll find your neurosis is a faithless friend. It will not be satiated by independence or any other change in external circumstances, any more than an anorexic can be cured by losing weight.Dair said:
The way the Germans and the British did when they got Ireland to raise its corporation tax rate?Alanbrooke said:
LOL why should we worry, if you ever got Indy the germans wouldn't let you do itDair said:
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.
#huendinnen
Oh wait. They didn't use their leverage at all. And that was with a failed economy in Ireland desperate for tens of billions of Euros (predominantly from the UK whose corporation tax they were untercutting). The most likely economic failure post Dissolution would be the rUK.0 -
Dair on corporation tax might be the first time I've seen him be correct on Scottish economics post-independence.0
-
Advocating ? I think you'll find I'm simply pointing out the bleeding obvious, something which appears to pass you by repeatedly.Dair said:
So you are advocating a Cartel to artificially inflate World Tax Rates against the forces of the Free Market.Alanbrooke said:
The issue is moving along with international efforts to harmonise tax to stop havens like Luxembourg creaming off revenues for sweet deals. It will happen by which time no doubt there'll be another massive hole in SNP calculations.Dair said:
Hahahahahaha.Alanbrooke said:
Really you should keep up.Dair said:
The way the Germans and the British did when they got Ireland to raise its corporation tax rate?Alanbrooke said:
LOL why should we worry, if you ever got Indy the germans wouldn't let you do itDair said:
Little gets as funny as PB Tories ending up in such a discursive fankle that they start criticising the SNP for wanting to offer a competitive tax framework.
#huendinnen
Oh wait. They didn't use their leverage at all. And that was with a failed economy in Ireland desperate for tens of billions of Euros (predominantly from the UK whose corporation tax they were untercutting). The most likely economic failure post Dissolution would be the rUK.
Going in is different than being in and the debate on Ireland's tax isn't over just resting.
Resting. The UK were offering Ireland a loan of £80bn which Ireland desperately needed and failed to leverage an increase in Irish Corporation Tax. If they didn't get them to change it then, they never will.
too stupid -it's the killer every time.
Damn these PB Tories really aren't distinguishable from the worst of the Socialist International.
However now you've set the marker I shall watch with interest how the SNP will turn the tide of world opinion.
Or not.0 -
The journalist who praised "armed resistance" against our soldiers in #Iraq & #Afghanistan?TGOHF said:OMG - it gets funnier !!
@georgeeaton: Seumas Milne set to be announced as Jeremy Corbyn's director of communications, Labour sources confirm to me.
He's also a defender of the Kremlin's actions.
Genius.
0 -
Corbyn is planning to keep Labour out forever.watford30 said:
The journalist who praised "armed resistance" against our soldiers in #Iraq & #Afghanistan?TGOHF said:OMG - it gets funnier !!
@georgeeaton: Seumas Milne set to be announced as Jeremy Corbyn's director of communications, Labour sources confirm to me.
Genius.0 -
I saw your post this morning and sort of agree. I stopped reading J Wiseman because he was so rude, I was not aware he was behaving so to speak so I was just passing by large volumes of type for the same reason , hence my post this am. If Logical song is around, I'd like to claim my prize/JEO said:Dair on corporation tax might be the first time I've seen him be correct on Scottish economics post-independence.
0 -
Someone like Gove could be PM if he somehow caught the public's imagination. I have no idea how he might do that, and I don't think it's likely, but if somehow there was a general warming towards him he'd certainly be in with a shout. Perhaps to a lesser extent Osborne needs to clear that sort of a hurdle too.Casino_Royale said:@Barnesian - I don't think he's incompetent; I just think he offers nothing new.
Who am I finding most interesting right now? Michael Gove and Johnny Mercer.
Gove is too funny-looking and sounding to be PM (unfair but true) and far too single-minded to listen. However, Mercer I could actually see becoming a future PM, but I don't know how strong his people leadership and administrative skills are. Also, his philosophy.
Right now I'd say the Tories have a string of effective first lieutenants but no obvious PM-in-waiting.
I have to admit that similar logic (cough!) caused me to back Rees-Mogg one evening too
(I'm quite surprised that he's not been given a ministerial role)
0 -
Digital divide, help needed to keep over 60s in touch. Hat tip to Old Holborn.
https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/6564185716025466880 -
Everyone loves the Mogg. Even Mhairi Black, which is astonishing.Omnium said:
Someone like Gove could be PM if he somehow caught the public's imagination. I have no idea how he might do that, and I don't think it's likely, but if somehow there was a general warming towards him he'd certainly be in with a shout. Perhaps to a lesser extent Osborne needs to clear that sort of a hurdle too.Casino_Royale said:@Barnesian - I don't think he's incompetent; I just think he offers nothing new.
Who am I finding most interesting right now? Michael Gove and Johnny Mercer.
Gove is too funny-looking and sounding to be PM (unfair but true) and far too single-minded to listen. However, Mercer I could actually see becoming a future PM, but I don't know how strong his people leadership and administrative skills are. Also, his philosophy.
Right now I'd say the Tories have a string of effective first lieutenants but no obvious PM-in-waiting.
I have to admit that similar logic (cough!) caused me to back Rees-Mogg one evening too
(I'm quite surprised that he's not been given a ministerial role)
Perhaps you're right, maybe Gove could surprise?0 -
I would suggest that atheism is evidentially based when set against the meanderings of the religious Corbynistas of their day and their chosen tribalisms. As Dawkins (I think) has suggested, as the strength of religious conviction increases so the corresponding IQ levels decrease. I'm sure he will have expressed that more eloquently.Luckyguy1983 said:
For a believer, atheism is as much a wilful delusion as religious belief is to an atheist. They would argue we're seperated from the divine every day by nothing more than a fine veil. We just choose to ignore.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, as I said it gives immense solace. Your life is shit, but one day everything will be better.SeanT said:
What a lot of bollocks. You're just as ignorant as the rest of the secular Western liberals. You literally have no concept of the solace religion brings, its emotional power, especially in its more fundamental forms.SouthamObserver said:
He had a few decent ones. Religion is relief from the grinding misery of day to day life and the promise of better to come: as long as you do what you are told and accept your fate in this life. Cover yourself in a veil and obey your husband, you'll go to heaven; accept you have nothing while the bloke in the castle has everything, including full control of your life, and you'll go to heaven. Don't kick up a fuss, take every knock you get, life is shit, but who cares, it only lasts a few years and then you get eternal paradise.Roger said:SO
'What's the best way of preventing dirt poor peasants from rising up against their masters? Give them religion."
You're not stealing Marx's ideas are you??
(Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people).
Religion gives life a shape, a meaning and a purpose - a mighty narrative, with a redemptive coda. Compared to religion, western liberalism can look a trivial and a vacuous thing: which is why many many Muslims sincerely reject it, and cling fiercely to the faith that brings them joy.
Until well meaning fools like you grasp this central and basic point, we are in trouble.
I actually do get it to an extent at least. My wife is a practising catholic and there are times when I have been in church with her that I have felt a beautiful calm that I have never felt elsewhere: an old church, a timeless ritual, everyone focused on the same thing, it is certainly powerful. Those who truly do believe are very fortunate. But it's not something you can force on yourself or other people.0 -
When you say, Mr Taffys, "a new democratically elected government", are you referring to Mr Cameron´s governemnt, which could not even get 25% of the electorate to vote for them?taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
0 -
A party that polled 24% of those elegible to vote who didn't include a manifesto commitment to cut tax credits and who's minister lied about plans to cut tax credits before the election and who opposed reform of the Lords...serves the buggers righttaffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
But that's OK right? it feelz right. And its about poor people, innit. There won;t be any political implications, right?0 -
Yeah but Milne is no Andy CoulsonTGOHF said:
Corbyn is planning to keep Labour out forever.watford30 said:
The journalist who praised "armed resistance" against our soldiers in #Iraq & #Afghanistan?TGOHF said:OMG - it gets funnier !!
@georgeeaton: Seumas Milne set to be announced as Jeremy Corbyn's director of communications, Labour sources confirm to me.
Genius.
Remember Dave's choice of Director of Communications made Cameron resign as PM 0 -
The Glorious Labour Party only polled 20% of those eligible!TheKrakenAwakes said:
A party that polled 24% of those elegible to vote who didn't include a manifesto commitment to cut tax credits and who's minister lied about plans to cut tax credits before the election and who opposed reform of the Lords...serves the buggers righttaffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
But that's OK right? it feelz right. And its about poor people, innit. There won;t be any political implications, right?0 -
Just shows what a crap, undemocratic system we have!TheKrakenAwakes said:
A party that polled 24% of those elegible to vote who didn't include a manifesto commitment to cut tax credits and who's minister lied about plans to cut tax credits before the election and who opposed reform of the Lords...serves the buggers righttaffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
But that's OK right? it feelz right. And its about poor people, innit. There won;t be any political implications, right?0 -
I wasn't calling him incompetent. It was the Speaker - in strong terms.Casino_Royale said:@Barnesian - I don't think he's incompetent; I just think he offers nothing new.
Who am I finding most interesting right now? Michael Gove and Johnny Mercer.
Gove is too funny-looking and sounding to be PM (unfair but true) and far too single-minded to listen. However, Mercer I could actually see becoming a future PM, but I don't know how strong his people leadership and administrative skills are. Also, his philosophy.
Right now I'd say the Tories have a string of effective first lieutenants but no obvious PM-in-waiting.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34580984
It's worth watching. There may be consequences.
0 -
@MrHarryCole: "Seumas joins the Labour Leader’s office on leave from the Guardian where he is a columnist and associate editor. " <- on leave???0
-
Well then you should understand why Muslims will not easily relinquish their faith, however brutal or austere, even if given the vote and plasma screen TVs.
It's not because they're stupid, not because they've been fed some "opium", it's got nothing to do with power - derrr - it's because their religion is, to them, a beautiful thing which gives life rich significance. Which is why their faith isn't going anywhere. Which is why we need to be very careful importing millions of believers, who belong to a religion becoming more medieval by the day.
Of course I understand that. Stepping back, though, I can't help noticing how effective all religions have been in entrenching and reinforcing powerful elites.
That is their purpose. History is as much about wealth and power creation though conflicts involving religion vs monarchy or religion vs religion, as it is about nation vs nation0 -
But it's not the Labour party who have created this problem...is itSunil_Prasannan said:
The Glorious Labour Party only polled 20% of those eligible!TheKrakenAwakes said:
A party that polled 24% of those elegible to vote who didn't include a manifesto commitment to cut tax credits and who's minister lied about plans to cut tax credits before the election and who opposed reform of the Lords...serves the buggers righttaffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
But that's OK right? it feelz right. And its about poor people, innit. There won;t be any political implications, right?0 -
Are you really saying it is not a democratically elected governmentPClipp said:
When you say, Mr Taffys, "a new democratically elected government", are you referring to Mr Cameron´s governemnt, which could not even get 25% of the electorate to vote for them?taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
0 -
What he's saying is that they have no mandateBig_G_NorthWales said:
Are you really saying it is not a democratically elected governmentPClipp said:
When you say, Mr Taffys, "a new democratically elected government", are you referring to Mr Cameron´s governemnt, which could not even get 25% of the electorate to vote for them?taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
0 -
0
-
RubbishTheKrakenAwakes said:
What he's saying is that they have no mandateBig_G_NorthWales said:
Are you really saying it is not a democratically elected governmentPClipp said:
When you say, Mr Taffys, "a new democratically elected government", are you referring to Mr Cameron´s governemnt, which could not even get 25% of the electorate to vote for them?taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
0 -
Here come the whining losers - who are miles behind in the polls with the most hated leader since Caligula.PClipp said:
When you say, Mr Taffys, "a new democratically elected government", are you referring to Mr Cameron´s governemnt, which could not even get 25% of the electorate to vote for them?taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
0 -
24% and elected on the back of a bunch of liesBig_G_NorthWales said:
RubbishTheKrakenAwakes said:
What he's saying is that they have no mandateBig_G_NorthWales said:
Are you really saying it is not a democratically elected governmentPClipp said:
When you say, Mr Taffys, "a new democratically elected government", are you referring to Mr Cameron´s governemnt, which could not even get 25% of the electorate to vote for them?taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
0 -
You really do take the biscuitTheKrakenAwakes said:
24% and elected on the back of a bunch of liesBig_G_NorthWales said:
RubbishTheKrakenAwakes said:
What he's saying is that they have no mandateBig_G_NorthWales said:
Are you really saying it is not a democratically elected governmentPClipp said:
When you say, Mr Taffys, "a new democratically elected government", are you referring to Mr Cameron´s governemnt, which could not even get 25% of the electorate to vote for them?taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
0 -
'I can't see it or measure it so it definitely doesn't exist' is hardly what I would call evidence. On the contrary, it smacks of extraordinarily unenquiring flat-earthism.ReggieCide said:
I would suggest that atheism is evidentially based when set against the meanderings of the religious Corbynistas of their day and their chosen tribalisms. As Dawkins (I think) has suggested, as the strength of religious conviction increases so the corresponding IQ levels decrease. I'm sure he will have expressed that more eloquently.
Dawkins is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. He doesn't disbelieve in God, he is angry with God - on a mission against God. That's what militant atheists are - people locked in their own internal struggle with spirituality.0 -
Religion has also done, and continues to do, terrible evil.SouthamObserver said:
I have no doubt that religion has been hijacked to serve many purposes. I genuinely cannot think of a religion that does not, to some extent at least, involve a hierarchy of some kind. But I freely admit I am not an expert. And I also feely admit that religion has done tremendous good.HurstLlama said:
You might want to reflect on that last sentence, Mr Observer. Are you sure that you are not putting the cart before the horse? Perhap some elites have used the religion of the people to entrench their own position. Secondly, all religions, you can't think of exceptions? Thirdly, powerful elites have always existed, as long as humans have lived in societies there have been those at the top with the power; religion, I suggest, has nothing to do with it.SouthamObserver said:
Of course I understand that. Stepping back, though, I can't help noticing how effective all religions have been in entrenching and reinforcing powerful elites.
0 -
The government's opponents will try and block its programme wherever they think they can get away with it.taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
But that's OK right? it feelz right. And its about poor people, innit. There won;t be any political implications, right?0 -
Labour motion defeated.
317 to 295 Maj 22
How many Tory abstentions?
0 -
Mr Kraken, it's nothing to do with the lies. Whether there were lies of not.TheKrakenAwakes said:
24% and elected on the back of a bunch of liesBig_G_NorthWales said:
RubbishTheKrakenAwakes said:
What he's saying is that they have no mandateBig_G_NorthWales said:
Are you really saying it is not a democratically elected governmentPClipp said:
When you say, Mr Taffys, "a new democratically elected government", are you referring to Mr Cameron´s governemnt, which could not even get 25% of the electorate to vote for them?taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
It's the "only" 24% that denies them the right.0 -
Tell me...why do you think the tax credits weren't in the Tory manifesto...why do you think that Cameron and Gove lied about plans to cut tax credits. Was it accidental or was it a deliberate attempt to misguide the electorate? If they'd been honest they wouldn't have won aBig_G_NorthWales said:
You really do take the biscuitTheKrakenAwakes said:
24% and elected on the back of a bunch of liesBig_G_NorthWales said:
RubbishTheKrakenAwakes said:
What he's saying is that they have no mandateBig_G_NorthWales said:
Are you really saying it is not a democratically elected governmentPClipp said:
When you say, Mr Taffys, "a new democratically elected government", are you referring to Mr Cameron´s governemnt, which could not even get 25% of the electorate to vote for them?taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
majority.0 -
This is quite, quite extraordinary.TGOHF said:OMG - it gets funnier !!
@georgeeaton: Seumas Milne set to be announced as Jeremy Corbyn's director of communications, Labour sources confirm to me.
I'm actually astonished that Seumas Milne is willing to get involved with Labour at all. His personal positions are far to the left of Corbyn. (Realistically Corbyn is "hard left" in the Labourite socialist mold, but Milne is authentically "far left" and has more in common with the various communist/Trotskyist minor parties.)0 -
They stated clearly they would reduce welfare by billions - and labour never had nor never will have any trust from the electorate on welfare or the economyTheKrakenAwakes said:
Tell me...why do you think the tax credits weren't in the Tory manifesto...why do you think that Cameron and Gove lied about plans to cut tax credits. Was it accidental or was it a deliberate attempt to misguide the electorate? If they'd been honest they wouldn't have won aBig_G_NorthWales said:
You really do take the biscuitTheKrakenAwakes said:
24% and elected on the back of a bunch of liesBig_G_NorthWales said:
RubbishTheKrakenAwakes said:
What he's saying is that they have no mandateBig_G_NorthWales said:
Are you really saying it is not a democratically elected governmentPClipp said:
When you say, Mr Taffys, "a new democratically elected government", are you referring to Mr Cameron´s governemnt, which could not even get 25% of the electorate to vote for them?taffys said:I see the opposition are planning to block the measures of a new democratically elected government with a fresh mandate by using the lords against tax credit cuts.
majority.0 -
Government narrowly wins the vote for tax credit cuts with 317 votes to 295 http://www.itv.com/news/story/2015-10-20/tory-mp-warns-party-over-planned-tax-credit-cuts/ …0
