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Cheating Autralians who reported it, obviously scared they would get thrashed.Morris_Dancer said:Scotland lose a couple of players to temporary bans for foul play:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34510438
Hard to see them beating Australia, alas.0 -
Mr. G, obviously, although I'm surprised you didn't refer to the nationality of the chap who made the decision.0
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Which is what's holding up Jeb Bush's price.david_herdson said:
The GOP has always gone establishment since as far back as 1964, though it frequently flirts with doing otherwise before running home to the electorate's comfort zone.rottenborough said:
There aren't enough of them. Each time in recent elections the GOP have hit the same problem. Jeb and the establishment know they need to reach out to other sections of american society, but the party membership won't let them. Hang on a minute...this is beginning to sound similar to somewhere else I know.Innocent_Abroad said:
The answer is Trump, possibly the first PotUS to be elected entirely by voters who neither own nor feel the lack of passports.Casino_Royale said:DavidL said:Very limited clips and I will admit being a complete wimp in not watching but wow, is Saunders really that bad? Is his job simply to make Hilary look younger and coherent? Does he not own a comb?
It seems to me that any bet against Hilary is a bet that her health will fail (very unlikely) or she gets indicted (even more unlikely). Laying at 1/3 for the democratic nomination looks very brave.
Can the republicans find a credible candidate (ie not Trump) to oppose her? They seem to be struggling so far.
I think the answer is Rubio, but I'm not sure the Republicans agree.DavidL said:Very limited clips and I will admit being a complete wimp in not watching but wow, is Saunders really that bad? Is his job simply to make Hilary look younger and coherent? Does he not own a comb?
It seems to me that any bet against Hilary is a bet that her health will fail (very unlikely) or she gets indicted (even more unlikely). Laying at 1/3 for the democratic nomination looks very brave.
Can the republicans find a credible candidate (ie not Trump) to oppose her? They seem to be struggling so far.0 -
In a multi-candidate race, sure. And the various loons against Romney outpolled him at various times. But whenever it was one-on-one, the Republicans looked at the establishment candidate and looked at the insurgent loon, and reluctantly chose the establishment one.HYUFD said:
No Trump polls well ahead of Rubio with the baseJEO said:
But Rubio has completely u-turned on immigration. It's reminiscent of Romney's u-turn on healthcare. Their original support means the party base is not at all happy with them, and it would sink them against a good consistently conservative candidate, but as they've given way on the issue the base will grudgingly accept them over a loon that will lose.HYUFD said:
Being pro immigration is Rubio and Jeb's problem. Trump and Cruz are anti. Interestingly Speedy seemed to be watching a different debate from OGH and most punters in his comments on the last thread saying Hillary bombedCasino_Royale said:DavidL said:Very limited clips and I will admit being a complete wimp in not watching but wow, is Saunders really that bad? Is his job simply to make Hilary look younger and coherent? Does he not own a comb?
It seems to me that any bet against Hilary is a bet that her health will fail (very unlikely) or she gets indicted (even more unlikely). Laying at 1/3 for the democratic nomination looks very brave.
Can the republicans find a credible candidate (ie not Trump) to oppose her? They seem to be struggling so far.
I think the answer is Rubio, but I'm not sure the Republicans agree.DavidL said:Very limited clips and I will admit being a complete wimp in not watching but wow, is Saunders really that bad? Is his job simply to make Hilary look younger and coherent? Does he not own a comb?
It seems to me that any bet against Hilary is a bet that her health will fail (very unlikely) or she gets indicted (even more unlikely). Laying at 1/3 for the democratic nomination looks very brave.
Can the republicans find a credible candidate (ie not Trump) to oppose her? They seem to be struggling so far.0 -
Your support for Russia perhaps explains your rather 'interesting' comments about the concept of innocent until proven guilty re. Brittan the other day.Luckyguy1983 said:
I completely agree. It's just that the regime isn't Russia.antifrank said:
I agree that the appetite for action is sickeningly low. Our failure to confront an aggressive militarist imperialist regime will be a stain on our age.kle4 said:
Much can be done with sanctions but it doesn't feel like there's that much of an appetite to take them further, it seemed hard enough to get them as far as they were. Short of a photo of Putin firing a missle personally, it feels like only token action would ever be taken.antifrank said:
Much more could be done with sanctions.kle4 said:Ultimately it hardly matters who brought down the plane, sadly. The Russians cannot be punished with more than sanctions presumably, if it was them, and it's not as though either side and it's supporters will accept any conclusion that apportions blame to their side, so would the political situation even change at all?
You will note that Russia is making strenuous diplomatic efforts to get existing sanctions lifted (without actually in substance altering the behaviour complained of). We should do the reverse and ratchet them up a couple of notches. Wars don't have to be fought with soldiers. We have little green men of our own and they sit in the City and Canary Wharf.0 -
This is the real problem the Loyalist nuts face with their "cunning trap".malcolmg said:
Everybody in Scotland knows it is a unionist con , not a trap. We do not need clowns like Mcwhirter , thinking he is smart. Any change in tax means a reduction in Scottish budget to match and so it is not powers devolved , just powers retained. Hopefully the SNP will have the cojones to vote down their NON Powers bill when it comes up for approval.CarlottaVance said:fitalass said:Interesting article in the Herald Scotland - SNP being lured into most blatant fiscal trap in 300 years
There is actually little evidence that Scottish voters are more sympathetic to welfare claimants than English voters. Nor are they over keen on paying taxes.
The Scottish Parliament has had the power to increase the basic rate of income tax by 3p since 1999. No government has contemplated using the Scottish rate. It will be a brave government that ever does.
Quite.
A political trap only works effectively when it is subtle and opaque to voters. The way the Tories are using this as a handcuffed way of slashing Scotland's budget while continuing to drain £12bn a year from Scottish taxpayers to pay for English profligacy is not subtle or opaque in any way. It is stark, obvious and transparent.
As such it won't impact the SNP. When they say that budgets are right it is because they are and they are tight because the Scottish budget continues to be hamstrung by the theft of huge sums of money by Westminster.0 -
@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT0
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Doddy
"Burnham made the usual tit of himself at the Immigration debate yesterday..Someone has told him that if he shouts very loud and s l o w s his speech d o w n then no none will spot the inane blather he comes out with".
Does your blithe partisanship under every circumstance and on all occasions ever embarrass you?0 -
Scott P..Oh woe...0
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Do you really think SNP will pass legislation that introduces wolves into the country with the sole intention of killing deer?Pulpstar said:
I think it is a possibility for the sparse lands of the Scottish Highlands, but sheep farm density in the southwest (South East is a non starter for pop density reasons) is too high - even if there are too many deer about.blackburn63 said:
Exactly my point, we are far too squeamish to accept that some animals kill others. Farmers and country folk will think it sensible but they're a minority.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 63, some have called for wolves to be reintroduced to southern England, also to decrease deer numbers,
Like you, I think it improbable. The first person attacked will see the blame laid squarely at the politician who gave the green light.
Not in a million years
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ONS @ONS 3m3 minutes ago
3.0% rise in wages in the yr to Jun-Aug 2015 including bonuses & 2.8% rise excluding bonuses http://ow.ly/Tnq1A0 -
Does yours?Roger said:Doddy
"Burnham made the usual tit of himself at the Immigration debate yesterday..Someone has told him that if he shouts very loud and s l o w s his speech d o w n then no none will spot the inane blather he comes out with".
Does your blithe partisanship under every circumstance and on all occasions ever embarrass you?0 -
Turnip yourself, Malc.MattW said:
You absolute turnip , it was not a Nationalist that wrote it.malcolmg said:
I'm afraid I'm reduced to the point that when I read this sort of thing from Nats:MattW said:
That's a sizeable difference from the £1000+ a year being bandied around by all and sundry in the UK wide press.chestnut said:fitalass said:Interesting article in the Herald Scotland - SNP being lured into most blatant fiscal trap in 300 years
As The Herald reported yesterday, the think tank IPPR calculates that the average family in Scotland will be £200 worse off
>This must be the most transparent fiscal trap since the Malt Tax in 1713.
I want to have it read in his Carry On voice by an exhumed Kenneth Williams.
I didn't say it was written by a Nationalist. There's that little phrase "this sort of thing".
Merely an accurate caricature.
It's an important issue.
The Scottish media is filled with Useful Idiots who tacked themselves on to the Independence cause but whose support was always half hearted and in many cases has now become actively hostile. MacWhirter is one but the worst is Kevin McKenna, a man of limited intellect at the best of times.
The problem is that these people are invited onto politcal shows as "balance" to Loyalists when their own position is now pretty much identical to the Loyalists they are supposed to be arguing against.0 -
How can anyone who wants to release ferocious, wild, possibly man eating animals into the wild..be taken seriously. Just hire a specialist for the day..0
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Oh the irony.....Roger said:Doddy
"Burnham made the usual tit of himself at the Immigration debate yesterday..Someone has told him that if he shouts very loud and s l o w s his speech d o w n then no none will spot the inane blather he comes out with".
Does your blithe partisanship under every circumstance and on all occasions ever embarrass you?0 -
felix..He is a funny lad..our Rog.0
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So with inflation at -0.1% is that a 3.1% real terms rise (2.9% excluding bonuses)? Won't someone deal with the cost of living crisis.Plato_Says said:ONS @ONS 3m3 minutes ago
3.0% rise in wages in the yr to Jun-Aug 2015 including bonuses & 2.8% rise excluding bonuses http://ow.ly/Tnq1A0 -
UKIP looks to be the only "not in a million years" policy, the rest of the parties are in the long grassblackburn63 said:
Do you really think SNP will pass legislation that introduces wolves into the country with the sole intention of killing deer?Pulpstar said:
I think it is a possibility for the sparse lands of the Scottish Highlands, but sheep farm density in the southwest (South East is a non starter for pop density reasons) is too high - even if there are too many deer about.blackburn63 said:
Exactly my point, we are far too squeamish to accept that some animals kill others. Farmers and country folk will think it sensible but they're a minority.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 63, some have called for wolves to be reintroduced to southern England, also to decrease deer numbers,
Like you, I think it improbable. The first person attacked will see the blame laid squarely at the politician who gave the green light.
Not in a million years
http://www.discoverwildlife.com/british-wildlife/election-2015-should-uk-introduce-extinct-native-species-such-wolves-or-lynx0 -
Having watched The Grey on Film 4 last night I am intrigued the idea of the deer in Bushy Park, or the occasional lone jogger, being culled by wolves.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 63, some have called for wolves to be reintroduced to southern England, also to decrease deer numbers,
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Roger Call it what you like.. Burnham spouted inane blather and shouted a lot..in fact he shouted his entire reply and made himself look like a tit..0
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Quite. More deer = more venison burgers. I don't see the downside.richardDodd said:How can anyone who wants to release ferocious, wild, possibly man eating animals into the wild..be taken seriously. Just hire a specialist for the day..
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Good morning all. Yet more evidence of Osborne's mismanagement of the economy. End austerity now!Plato_Says said:ONS @ONS 3m3 minutes ago
3.0% rise in wages in the yr to Jun-Aug 2015 including bonuses & 2.8% rise excluding bonuses http://ow.ly/Tnq1A0 -
Burnham is a tit. Even the Labour Party members twice couldn't stand him.0
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Here in Monmouthshire, we're very excited by the prospect of hunting foxes with wolves!glw said:
Having watched The Grey on Film 4 last night I am intrigued the idea of the deer in Bushy Park, or the occasional lone jogger, being culled by wolves.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 63, some have called for wolves to be reintroduced to southern England, also to decrease deer numbers,
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If we're going to release top predators in Scotland, can we at least make it interesting and populate the highlands with bears rather than wolves?0
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Thanks, the SNP make it clear no wolves. I'm not saying its a good or bad idea, I believe in letting country folk run the country but no political party would ever carry it out.Pulpstar said:
UKIP looks to be the only "not in a million years" policy, the rest of the parties are in the long grassblackburn63 said:
Do you really think SNP will pass legislation that introduces wolves into the country with the sole intention of killing deer?Pulpstar said:
I think it is a possibility for the sparse lands of the Scottish Highlands, but sheep farm density in the southwest (South East is a non starter for pop density reasons) is too high - even if there are too many deer about.blackburn63 said:
Exactly my point, we are far too squeamish to accept that some animals kill others. Farmers and country folk will think it sensible but they're a minority.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 63, some have called for wolves to be reintroduced to southern England, also to decrease deer numbers,
Like you, I think it improbable. The first person attacked will see the blame laid squarely at the politician who gave the green light.
Not in a million years
http://www.discoverwildlife.com/british-wildlife/election-2015-should-uk-introduce-extinct-native-species-such-wolves-or-lynx
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I cannot see how my comments were anything other than objective fact.JosiasJessop said:
Your support for Russia perhaps explains your rather 'interesting' comments about the concept of innocent until proven guilty re. Brittan the other day.Luckyguy1983 said:
I completely agree. It's just that the regime isn't Russia.antifrank said:
I agree that the appetite for action is sickeningly low. Our failure to confront an aggressive militarist imperialist regime will be a stain on our age.kle4 said:
Much can be done with sanctions but it doesn't feel like there's that much of an appetite to take them further, it seemed hard enough to get them as far as they were. Short of a photo of Putin firing a missle personally, it feels like only token action would ever be taken.antifrank said:
Much more could be done with sanctions.kle4 said:Ultimately it hardly matters who brought down the plane, sadly. The Russians cannot be punished with more than sanctions presumably, if it was them, and it's not as though either side and it's supporters will accept any conclusion that apportions blame to their side, so would the political situation even change at all?
You will note that Russia is making strenuous diplomatic efforts to get existing sanctions lifted (without actually in substance altering the behaviour complained of). We should do the reverse and ratchet them up a couple of notches. Wars don't have to be fought with soldiers. We have little green men of our own and they sit in the City and Canary Wharf.
Have people here been applying the 'innocent until proven guilty' concept to Russia?0 -
I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.0
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You are suggesting that the report is withholding information to give themselves an easy ride?JosiasJessop said:
No, because that would have been irrelevant and just tied them up further with arguments.Luckyguy1983 said:
They did say where it was fired from, that's the point. A 320 square km area in Eastern Ukraine. Had there been a smaller and more specific potential launch area they could and would have said so.JosiasJessop said:
Why was it in their remit to say where the missile was fired from? That issue was irrelevant to the investigation as set out, at least as far as I see it. Where it was fired from, and who fired it, is irrelevant to what caused the plane to break up, or recommendations as to how such an incident could be avoided in the future.Luckyguy1983 said:Oh dear dear dear. It seems some people here are more than a little upset that the report does not state (as would have been quite within its remit without apportioning blame) that the missile was fired from rebel held territory. Keep flapping guys, I'm sure no-one will notice...
The type of missile and warhead was within the remit, as they were trying to explain what caused the plane to break up, not who fired it.
This is common with all sorts of accident reports: the main requirement is to find out what happened, and leave any prosecutions for who did it (whether by incompetence or malice) to the relevant authorities.
We'll see what happens when the Dutch criminal investigation report is released.
Still, at least the air-to-air missile 'theory' has been thoroughly debunked.0 -
Isn't the idea to have the wolves patrolling the border to keep the English out?
I am definitely in the rewilding camp. It would be more effective if humans decolonised parts of the country to create proper wildlife parks. Wolves, lynx, bears, beavers. Just a pity there aren't any mammoths or wooly rhinos to add to the mix.0 -
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.0 -
Incidentally, wolves have a relatively low kill success rate. African hunting dogs are much deadlier (over 90% success rate).
And if we're talking apex predators, there was talk of someone wanting me to create a feral type of enormo-haddock. The project was shelved on the basis it would lead to the extinction of mankind.0 -
You can see why big business is so keen to remain in the EU.Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
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Sandy Rentool..We could make the area into a reality TV show... shove a lot of economic migrants in there and if they survive more than two years they can have some benefits..0
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It doesn't stop people going camping in the US or Canada.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
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I think you've just given Lucky Guy his thought for the day :-)richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
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Chernobyl is a teeming with amazing wildlife .SandyRentool said:Isn't the idea to have the wolves patrolling the border to keep the English out?
I am definitely in the rewilding camp. It would be more effective if humans decolonised parts of the country to create proper wildlife parks. Wolves, lynx, bears, beavers. Just a pity there aren't any mammoths or wooly rhinos to add to the mix.0 -
Yes, and if only the odd 1.7 million unemployed would move to other parts of the EU to take their jobs, it would be an economic miracleAlanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.. 0 -
Isn't that the current policy of the Hungarian government?richardDodd said:Sandy Rentool..We could make the area into a reality TV show... shove a lot of economic migrants in there and if they survive more than two years they can have some benefits..
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No. Are you proposing that were we to leave the EU we would have zero non-UK nationals in the country? Are you suggesting that every American, Canadian or other national here is only here due to the EU?Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
Correlation does not equal causation.0 -
John_M said:
Yes, and if only the odd 1.7 million unemployed would move to other parts of the EU to take their jobs, it would be an economic miracleAlanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them..
I believe Germany's looking lots of people.0 -
But it has done nothing for Chernobyl's tourist trade, and therein lies the risk for the Scots.TGOHF said:
Chernobyl is a teeming with amazing wildlife .SandyRentool said:Isn't the idea to have the wolves patrolling the border to keep the English out?
I am definitely in the rewilding camp. It would be more effective if humans decolonised parts of the country to create proper wildlife parks. Wolves, lynx, bears, beavers. Just a pity there aren't any mammoths or wooly rhinos to add to the mix.0 -
F1: from 2016 customer engines must have the same spec a works teams.
Hmm. I wonder if that makes Red Bull likelier or less likely to remain.
Good news for Williams, Force India, and Manor (Mercedes customers next year). May also be handy for Sauber (Ferrari).0 -
Sandy Rentool Those camping in the USA or Canada .. which have always been home to lots of wild animals and cover areas that are bigger than the entire British lsles ..tend to carry licensed weapons to defend themselves.. such as a gun..
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If it bleeds, we can kill it.antifrank said:If we're going to release top predators in Scotland, can we at least make it interesting and populate the highlands with bears rather than wolves?
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http://www.i24news.tv/en/opinion/88649-151011-what-happens-when-palestinians-burn-a-church
Palestinians try to hide that fact of course.0 -
The statistics say there are 2 million EU citizens in the workforce and growing.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Are you proposing that were we to leave the EU we would have zero non-UK nationals in the country? Are you suggesting that every American, Canadian or other national here is only here due to the EU?Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
Correlation does not equal causation.
As for which claims Remain are making well that's anybody's guess. The 3 million number is sort of plucked from the ether.
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A Brooke.. Does LG83 actually have a thought for the day..0
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Bears are pretty timid and attacks on humans are rare. I saw a bunch this summer in the wilds of the US - they bolted as soon as they saw us every time.SandyRentool said:
It doesn't stop people going camping in the US or Canada.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
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Never knew you were in favour of relaxing gun control laws, Mr RentoolSandyRentool said:
It doesn't stop people going camping in the US or Canada.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
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Yes, the lazy fkrs can just import people, not bother to train their own, keep wages low and not bother about productivity.TGOHF said:
You can see why big business is so keen to remain in the EU.Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
And then pay themselves a big tax avoiding bonus for their hard efforts.0 -
Your comments were stupid and wrong, and you rightly got called out for them.Luckyguy1983 said:
I cannot see how my comments were anything other than objective fact.JosiasJessop said:
Your support for Russia perhaps explains your rather 'interesting' comments about the concept of innocent until proven guilty re. Brittan the other day.Luckyguy1983 said:
I completely agree. It's just that the regime isn't Russia.antifrank said:
I agree that the appetite for action is sickeningly low. Our failure to confront an aggressive militarist imperialist regime will be a stain on our age.kle4 said:
Much can be done with sanctions but it doesn't feel like there's that much of an appetite to take them further, it seemed hard enough to get them as far as they were. Short of a photo of Putin firing a missle personally, it feels like only token action would ever be taken.antifrank said:
Much more could be done with sanctions.kle4 said:Ultimately it hardly matters who brought down the plane, sadly. The Russians cannot be punished with more than sanctions presumably, if it was them, and it's not as though either side and it's supporters will accept any conclusion that apportions blame to their side, so would the political situation even change at all?
You will note that Russia is making strenuous diplomatic efforts to get existing sanctions lifted (without actually in substance altering the behaviour complained of). We should do the reverse and ratchet them up a couple of notches. Wars don't have to be fought with soldiers. We have little green men of our own and they sit in the City and Canary Wharf.
Have people here been applying the 'innocent until proven guilty' concept to Russia?0 -
In fairness, they're now saying that the 3 million jobs are merely dependent on trade with the EU. They're still implying that those jobs would evaporate (presumably due to the mile high wall that would shroud the continent as soon as the referendum count showed a majority for the leavers).Alanbrooke said:
The statistics say there are 2 million EU citizens in the workforce and growing.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Are you proposing that were we to leave the EU we would have zero non-UK nationals in the country? Are you suggesting that every American, Canadian or other national here is only here due to the EU?Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
Correlation does not equal causation.
As for which claims Remain are making well that's anybody's guess. The 3 million number is sort of plucked from the ether.0 -
Oh, the Nationalists aren't THAT bad...probably.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
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It's an important issue.Dair said:
Turnip yourself, Malc.MattW said:
You absolute turnip , it was not a Nationalist that wrote it.malcolmg said:
I'm afraid I'm reduced to the point that when I read this sort of thing from Nats:MattW said:
That's a sizeable difference from the £1000+ a year being bandied around by all and sundry in the UK wide press.chestnut said:fitalass said:Interesting article in the Herald Scotland - SNP being lured into most blatant fiscal trap in 300 years
As The Herald reported yesterday, the think tank IPPR calculates that the average family in Scotland will be £200 worse off
>This must be the most transparent fiscal trap since the Malt Tax in 1713.
I want to have it read in his Carry On voice by an exhumed Kenneth Williams.
I didn't say it was written by a Nationalist. There's that little phrase "this sort of thing".
Merely an accurate caricature.
The Scottish media is filled with Useful Idiots who tacked themselves on to the Independence cause but whose support was always half hearted and in many cases has now become actively hostile. MacWhirter is one but the worst is Kevin McKenna, a man of limited intellect at the best of times.
The problem is that these people are invited onto politcal shows as "balance" to Loyalists when their own position is now pretty much identical to the Loyalists they are supposed to be arguing against.
Quislings, splitters, collaborators and the unpure ? Burn them all.0 -
Presumably these people are unaware of the thousands of man-eating wolves that are to be reintroduced to the British countryside.Alanbrooke said:There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
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In fairness their figures will sort of float about for the next two years dependent on which way the wind is blowing.John_M said:
In fairness, they're now saying that 3 millions jobs are merely dependent on trade with the EU. They're still implying that those jobs would evaporate (presumably due to the mile high wall that would shroud the continent as soon as the referendum count showed a majority for the leavers).Alanbrooke said:
The statistics say there are 2 million EU citizens in the workforce and growing.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Are you proposing that were we to leave the EU we would have zero non-UK nationals in the country? Are you suggesting that every American, Canadian or other national here is only here due to the EU?Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
Correlation does not equal causation.
As for which claims Remain are making well that's anybody's guess. The 3 million number is sort of plucked from the ether.
As will Leave's.0 -
So 2 million is less than 3 million. Are you also proposing that were we to Leave then there would be zero French, German or other nationals from across our continent living in the UK? You can not just artificially add all Europeans up and say it's due to the EU unless you're proposing that if we leave we deport all non nationals and let no new ones in. Are you?Alanbrooke said:
The statistics say there are 2 million EU citizens in the workforce and growing.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Are you proposing that were we to leave the EU we would have zero non-UK nationals in the country? Are you suggesting that every American, Canadian or other national here is only here due to the EU?Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
Correlation does not equal causation.
As for which claims Remain are making well that's anybody's guess. The 3 million number is sort of plucked from the ether.0 -
If you're in an area with dangerous animals in North America, outside the designated area of a park ranger, they generally recommend you are armed.SandyRentool said:
It doesn't stop people going camping in the US or Canada.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
-1 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.0 -
I wonder how this works when the manufacturer comes up with an updated engine, and especially when the manufacturer 'splits' the two cars it runs, with one having a new-spec engine and another an older-spec. As we saw with Mercedes a few races ago, this can bring unreliability. Do the customers have to take the latest and greatest, or will the customers get to choose?Morris_Dancer said:F1: from 2016 customer engines must have the same spec a works teams.
Hmm. I wonder if that makes Red Bull likelier or less likely to remain.
Good news for Williams, Force India, and Manor (Mercedes customers next year). May also be handy for Sauber (Ferrari).
If the former, then the manufacturers could use customers to 'test' engines that they are not willing to risk themselves. If the latter, manufacturer costs may well increase as they have to support multiple engine types.0 -
I thought his comments were reasonable, and the other side of the debate was largely talking past him.JosiasJessop said:
Your comments were stupid and wrong, and you rightly got called out for them.Luckyguy1983 said:
I cannot see how my comments were anything other than objective fact.JosiasJessop said:
Your support for Russia perhaps explains your rather 'interesting' comments about the concept of innocent until proven guilty re. Brittan the other day.Luckyguy1983 said:
I completely agree. It's just that the regime isn't Russia.antifrank said:
I agree that the appetite for action is sickeningly low. Our failure to confront an aggressive militarist imperialist regime will be a stain on our age.kle4 said:
Much can be done with sanctions but it doesn't feel like there's that much of an appetite to take them further, it seemed hard enough to get them as far as they were. Short of a photo of Putin firing a missle personally, it feels like only token action would ever be taken.antifrank said:
Much more could be done with sanctions.kle4 said:Ultimately it hardly matters who brought down the plane, sadly. The Russians cannot be punished with more than sanctions presumably, if it was them, and it's not as though either side and it's supporters will accept any conclusion that apportions blame to their side, so would the political situation even change at all?
You will note that Russia is making strenuous diplomatic efforts to get existing sanctions lifted (without actually in substance altering the behaviour complained of). We should do the reverse and ratchet them up a couple of notches. Wars don't have to be fought with soldiers. We have little green men of our own and they sit in the City and Canary Wharf.
Have people here been applying the 'innocent until proven guilty' concept to Russia?0 -
And accuse our youngsters of not wanting to work.Alanbrooke said:
Yes, the lazy fkrs can just import people, not bother to train their own, keep wages low and not bother about productivity.TGOHF said:
You can see why big business is so keen to remain in the EU.Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
And then pay themselves a big tax avoiding bonus for their hard efforts.
0 -
George Osborne doesn't care which way they vote. If they follow his call, it maximises the Labour split. If they unite behind Jeremy Corbyn, he can tar the whole Labour party as anti-austerity deficit deniers. From his viewpoint it's now win-win.MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.0 -
The man has overseen a Conservative majority, and caused the other three large parties to be in complete disarray.MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.0 -
Not at all, there would be controlled migration same for the yanks and the ozzies. But the bulk of people are coming from E. Europe and if the rate of increase stays the same it will be 2.5 million by the time we have a vote.Philip_Thompson said:
So 2 million is less than 3 million. Are you also proposing that were we to Leave then there would be zero French, German or other nationals from across our continent living in the UK? You can not just artificially add all Europeans up and say it's due to the UK unless you're proposing that if we leave we deport all non nationals and let no new ones in. Are you?Alanbrooke said:
The statistics say there are 2 million EU citizens in the workforce and growing.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Are you proposing that were we to leave the EU we would have zero non-UK nationals in the country? Are you suggesting that every American, Canadian or other national here is only here due to the EU?Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
Correlation does not equal causation.
As for which claims Remain are making well that's anybody's guess. The 3 million number is sort of plucked from the ether.
So if the EU plays silly buggers and we lose the 3 millon jobs obviously we would have to send people back home and put our own nationals first.0 -
It's masterly. Now they're f*cked whatever they do.MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.
If they abstain, it's because they're doing GO's bidding or heeding his words (Red Tory Scum! Red Tory Scum!). If they toe the party line, they're financially irresponsible hypocrites.
Learn to think like George - you musn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.0 -
As a former Conservative, it must be a bitter pill for you to swallow to see the economy doing so well.MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.0 -
Really ?JEO said:
The man has overseen a Conservative majority, and caused the other three large parties to be in complete disarray.MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.
I thought that was Cameron.0 -
No. Giving the precise location is of no relevance to their particular investigation, and would just have tied them up in loads of argument, wasted time, and have trod on the toes of the criminal investigation. In fact, trying to might even have caused the report to be devalued as it was irrelevant to their objectives.Luckyguy1983 said:
You are suggesting that the report is withholding information to give themselves an easy ride?JosiasJessop said:
No, because that would have been irrelevant and just tied them up further with arguments.Luckyguy1983 said:
They did say where it was fired from, that's the point. A 320 square km area in Eastern Ukraine. Had there been a smaller and more specific potential launch area they could and would have said so.JosiasJessop said:
Why was it in their remit to say where the missile was fired from? That issue was irrelevant to the investigation as set out, at least as far as I see it. Where it was fired from, and who fired it, is irrelevant to what caused the plane to break up, or recommendations as to how such an incident could be avoided in the future.Luckyguy1983 said:Oh dear dear dear. It seems some people here are more than a little upset that the report does not state (as would have been quite within its remit without apportioning blame) that the missile was fired from rebel held territory. Keep flapping guys, I'm sure no-one will notice...
The type of missile and warhead was within the remit, as they were trying to explain what caused the plane to break up, not who fired it.
This is common with all sorts of accident reports: the main requirement is to find out what happened, and leave any prosecutions for who did it (whether by incompetence or malice) to the relevant authorities.
We'll see what happens when the Dutch criminal investigation report is released.
Still, at least the air-to-air missile 'theory' has been thoroughly debunked.
The criminal investigation is another matter.0 -
Those midges feast on tourists already. I would swap them for wolves anyday.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
-1 -
Strategy and tactics - MikeK v Ozzy - Is that a trick question?MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.0 -
...and this will happen in even greater numbers if we don't leave the EU embrace. GB will eventually be subsumed into the EUSR and England will be just a legend from the mythical past.blackburn63 said:
And accuse our youngsters of not wanting to work.Alanbrooke said:
Yes, the lazy fkrs can just import people, not bother to train their own, keep wages low and not bother about productivity.TGOHF said:
You can see why big business is so keen to remain in the EU.Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
And then pay themselves a big tax avoiding bonus for their hard efforts.0 -
Meh if I was an independent I'd vote against it. I'd have certainly voted in favour of the most recent Conservative budget though.antifrank said:
George Osborne doesn't care which way they vote. If they follow his call, it maximises the Labour split. If they unite behind Jeremy Corbyn, he can tar the whole Labour party as anti-austerity deficit deniers. From his viewpoint it's now win-win.MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.0 -
JEO said:
If you're in an area with dangerous animals in North America, outside the designated area of a park ranger, they generally recommend you are armed.SandyRentool said:
It doesn't stop people going camping in the US or Canada.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
To defend yourself against redneck hunters?0 -
Keep on babbling @Square, and you may say something useful.SquareRoot said:
As a former Conservative, it must be a bitter pill for you to swallow to see the economy doing so well.MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.0 -
Scottish unemployement rises 18,000 to 170,000
Why are the SNP failing the country so badly ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-34469567
"It's getting harder to sustain the argument that the Scottish economy has at least kept pace with the rest of the UK."0 -
What is it with fiscal pacts? Brown's stability pact was vague and ultimately meaningless, in terms of you were never going to know in advance when a cycle started and ended, whilst Osborne's is massively over simplistic and yet still carries the fudge factor of 'normal times'.
I think it was Cooper policy to put a top limit on any deficit or indeed to be forced to run a surplus based on a number of economic inputs (the level of debt, growth rate and current deficit being foremost) and a proper formula. Though this was a rather dry bit of policy, and obviously the actual formula you came up with was key to it all, it was far better road to go down than the Noddy proposal GO is making. Leaving aside the mess in getting to this point, Corbyn and McDonnell could do worse than to appropriate something of this ilk.
As an aside, I accepted some of Kendall's tough messages, but her wholesale swallowing of this one was one of the main things that ultimately swung me away from voting for her as first choice in the leadership election.
I don't know how big the rebellion will be, but were I an MP, I would not be a part of starting the civil war today.0 -
Highland Cows probably pose more risk to campers and walkers than wolves.foxinsoxuk said:
Those midges feast on tourists already. I would swap them for wolves anyday.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
Having said that, I'm not in favour of the reintroduction of wolves into the Highlands.0 -
Its both, there is such a concept as teamwork.Alanbrooke said:
Really ?JEO said:
The man has overseen a Conservative majority, and caused the other three large parties to be in complete disarray.MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.
I thought that was Cameron.0 -
Semi O/T - has anyone else been watching Homeland? I've seen it on DVDs for series 1-4 and caught up with More4's launch of series 5 on Sunday. I like it a lot - the characterisation is quite deep, the heroes flawed, the picture of Germany and Pakistan convincing. But the underlying assumptions are interesting: the CIA are basically good guys, if they go a bit far at times; Muslims are by definition rather suspicious; the Germans are wet for being squeamish about encouraging the CIA to help their spooks circumvent German law; assassination of extremist enemies (with a bit of gloating on top) is fine. All of these are positions that many here would endorse, but in the British context they are quite hardline and somewhere in the Tory-UKIP range. In the US they are evidently mainstream, assuming that the series isn't setting out to provoke.0
-
It would sound bigger if you converted it into square yards.Luckyguy1983 said:
They did say where it was fired from, that's the point. A 320 square km area in Eastern Ukraine. Had there been a smaller and more specific potential launch area they could and would have said so.JosiasJessop said:
Why was it in their remit to say where the missile was fired from? That issue was irrelevant to the investigation as set out, at least as far as I see it. Where it was fired from, and who fired it, is irrelevant to what caused the plane to break up, or recommendations as to how such an incident could be avoided in the future.Luckyguy1983 said:Oh dear dear dear. It seems some people here are more than a little upset that the report does not state (as would have been quite within its remit without apportioning blame) that the missile was fired from rebel held territory. Keep flapping guys, I'm sure no-one will notice...
The type of missile and warhead was within the remit, as they were trying to explain what caused the plane to break up, not who fired it.
This is common with all sorts of accident reports: the main requirement is to find out what happened, and leave any prosecutions for who did it (whether by incompetence or malice) to the relevant authorities.
We'll see what happens when the Dutch criminal investigation report is released.
Alternatively you could say a 12 x 12 mile area and most people would realise that it is small and specific in the context of the size of Eastern Ukraine.
Most likely this act was perpetrated by Russian backed and Russian supplied rebels (whether they were actually Russians we will probably never know).
All your shilling for Putin won't change the fact that he is an avaricious, power-hungry thug0 -
Of course, but that wasn't the claim made.Philip_Thompson said:
Its both, there is such a concept as teamwork.Alanbrooke said:
Really ?JEO said:
The man has overseen a Conservative majority, and caused the other three large parties to be in complete disarray.MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.
I thought that was Cameron.0 -
No, no, a thousand times no. Repatriation is a daft concept. Phillip is (as he says) utterly pro immigration, and this argument plays right into the remainer's hands. We can't treat immigrants as some lumpen, monolithic mass.Alanbrooke said:
Not at all, there would be controlled migration same for the yanks and the ozzies. But the bulk of people are coming from E. Europe and if the rate of increase stays the same it will be 2.5 million by the time we have a vote.Philip_Thompson said:
So 2 million is less than 3 million. Are you also proposing that were we to Leave then there would be zero French, German or other nationals from across our continent living in the UK? You can not just artificially add all Europeans up and say it's due to the UK unless you're proposing that if we leave we deport all non nationals and let no new ones in. Are you?Alanbrooke said:
The statistics say there are 2 million EU citizens in the workforce and growing.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Are you proposing that were we to leave the EU we would have zero non-UK nationals in the country? Are you suggesting that every American, Canadian or other national here is only here due to the EU?Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
Correlation does not equal causation.
As for which claims Remain are making well that's anybody's guess. The 3 million number is sort of plucked from the ether.
So if the EU plays silly buggers and we lose the 3 millon jobs obviously we would have to send people back home and put our own nationals first.
We need people to do the work that natives don't (whether that's won't or can't). However, we should also be asking ourselves why that situation arises, and doing some decent root cause analysis. We should also be looking at the employment rates of our immigrant population and fixing some of the obvious issues (e.g. Somali unemployment rates).
While I'm waving my magic wand, I'd also like a pony and more puppies.0 -
And of course the crash was eighteen years almost to the day since we crashed out of the ERM. Possibly the most prosperous eighteen years, with sustained economic growth sustained low inflation. All sides seemed to believe the hype that boom and bust had been abolished.Scott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
To reach a point that took over 70 quarters of positive economic growth, in only a few years, and through a much more bumpy economic environment is mightily impressive.0 -
This is going to be 'SindyRef Revisited'......Alanbrooke said:
In fairness their figures will sort of float about for the next two years dependent on which way the wind is blowing.John_M said:
In fairness, they're now saying that 3 millions jobs are merely dependent on trade with the EU. They're still implying that those jobs would evaporate (presumably due to the mile high wall that would shroud the continent as soon as the referendum count showed a majority for the leavers).Alanbrooke said:
The statistics say there are 2 million EU citizens in the workforce and growing.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Are you proposing that were we to leave the EU we would have zero non-UK nationals in the country? Are you suggesting that every American, Canadian or other national here is only here due to the EU?Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
Correlation does not equal causation.
As for which claims Remain are making well that's anybody's guess. The 3 million number is sort of plucked from the ether.
As will Leave's.
With(in/out) the EU 3 million will (lose/gain) jobs!
Liar!
Fibber!
My tax exile slebs are better than your tax exile slebs....
Then there's going to be Nicola trying to double guess the Scottish electorate to 'Vote for something different from the English (what ever that might be) so we can get SindyRef2'.....
Can we have an AV thread please?0 -
Hillary is an obnoxious perennial on the US scene, Trump would slaughter her in a Presidential race.0
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I feel like the PB tutor today. The cause of this issue is the dead hand of Westminster holding back Scotland. It can only be remedied by more Scotland. Indyref 2, coming to a cinema near you soon.TGOHF said:Scottish unemployement rises 18,000 to 170,000
Why are the SNP failing the country so badly ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-34469567
"It's getting harder to sustain the argument that the Scottish economy has at least kept pace with the rest of the UK."0 -
The reason is quite simple there is too much easily available labour for employers and too many easy ways to opt out of the work force for those who want to.John_M said:
No, no, a thousand times no. Repatriation is a daft concept. Phillip is (as he says) utterly pro immigration, and this argument plays right into the remainer's hands. We can't treat immigrants as some lumpen, monolithic mass.Alanbrooke said:
Not atsame it will be 2.5 million by the time we have a vote.Philip_Thompson said:
So 2 in. Are you?Alanbrooke said:
The statistics say there are 2 million EU citizens in the workforce and growing.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Are you proposing that were we to leave the EU we would have zero non-UK nationals in the country? Are you suggesting that every American, Canadian or other national here is only here due to the EU?Alanbrooke said:
From that reportScott_P said:@faisalislam: Unemployment rate now down to 5.4%, lowest since before Lehman crash, employment at new record: http://t.co/AYeU5VTbfT
UK nationals employment increases by 84k in the last year non-UK by 257k.
There are now 3.18 million non-UK nationals in the workforce.
So if the EU has 3 million jobs dependent on it, it looks like we've imported the people to do them.
Correlation does not equal causation.
As for which claims Remain are making well that's anybody's guess. The 3 million number is sort of plucked from the ether.
So if the EU plays silly buggers and we lose the 3 millon jobs obviously we would have to send people back home and put our own nationals first.
We need people to do the work that natives don't (whether that's won't or can't). However, we should also be asking ourselves why that situation arises, and doing some decent root cause analysis. We should also be looking at the employment rates of our immigrant population and fixing some of the obvious issues (e.g. Somali unemployment rates).
While I'm waving my magic wand, I'd also like a pony and more puppies.
As for repatriation I seriosuly doubt it would come to that, but it's a nice negotiating card to stop the EU bureacracy getting daft. With Germany it's do you want to sell cars, France do you want to sell wine and with Poland where are you going to put 1 million people.0 -
That is disgusting. Firstly the jobs lost would not be fulfilled by the people who have migrated and have filled other jobs that are not related. So you would do what, kick a foreign national who is legally here out of the country against their will and then compel by force a British national with no skills or experience in the job the foreign national was doing into that role? Seriously?Alanbrooke said:
Not at all, there would be controlled migration same for the yanks and the ozzies. But the bulk of people are coming from E. Europe and if the rate of increase stays the same it will be 2.5 million by the time we have a vote.Philip_Thompson said:So 2 million is less than 3 million. Are you also proposing that were we to Leave then there would be zero French, German or other nationals from across our continent living in the UK? You can not just artificially add all Europeans up and say it's due to the UK unless you're proposing that if we leave we deport all non nationals and let no new ones in. Are you?
So if the EU plays silly buggers and we lose the 3 millon jobs obviously we would have to send people back home and put our own nationals first.
There will always be migration into any country and emigration too. We have hundreds of thousands of people emigrating this year, I am assuming you are not proposing we put up an Iron Curtain to prevent people from emigrating? Which means that unless we have an Iron Curtain put up to prevent emigration we must have hundreds of thousands of immigrants per annum to keep net migration at zero let alone the tens of thousands we aspire to.
So your counterfactual outside of the EU meaning zero non-UK nationals is either complete twaddle, or you are proposing an Iron Curtain to prevent emigration too, or you want to preside over a catastrophic population decline with net emigration in the hundreds of thousands.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just talking twaddle.0 -
IIRC, reintroduction of wolves was actively considered for Rum [edit:both an island and a National Nature Reserve] in the 1970s-1980s but it was decided that the island was too small to support a reasonably sized population without the normal stochastic variation of population leading to local extinction too soon.JosiasJessop said:
Highland Cows probably pose more risk to campers and walkers than wolves.foxinsoxuk said:
Those midges feast on tourists already. I would swap them for wolves anyday.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
Having said that, I'm not in favour of the reintroduction of wolves into the Highlands.
Lynx is much more doable in any case [edit] for Scotland as a whole. Smaller, higher population density, eat smaller prey.
But overpopulation of Red Deer continues to be a worry.
0 -
No, no, no, no.TGOHF said:Scottish unemployement rises 18,000 to 170,000
"It's getting harder to sustain the argument that the Scottish economy has at least kept pace with the rest of the UK."
Scottish employment rises - enlightened policy of Holyrood
Scottish employment falls - benighted policy of Westminster.
Do keep up!0 -
It's an important issue.Dair said:
Turnip yourself, Malc.MattW said:
You absolute turnip , it was not a Nationalist that wrote it.malcolmg said:
I'm afraid I'm reduced to the point that when I read this sort of thing from Nats:MattW said:
That's a sizeable difference from the £1000+ a year being bandied around by all and sundry in the UK wide press.chestnut said:fitalass said:Interesting article in the Herald Scotland - SNP being lured into most blatant fiscal trap in 300 years
As The Herald reported yesterday, the think tank IPPR calculates that the average family in Scotland will be £200 worse off
>This must be the most transparent fiscal trap since the Malt Tax in 1713.
I want to have it read in his Carry On voice by an exhumed Kenneth Williams.
I didn't say it was written by a Nationalist. There's that little phrase "this sort of thing".
Merely an accurate caricature.
The Scottish media is filled with Useful Idiots who tacked themselves on to the Independence cause but whose support was always half hearted and in many cases has now become actively hostile. MacWhirter is one but the worst is Kevin McKenna, a man of limited intellect at the best of times.
The problem is that these people are invited onto politcal shows as "balance" to Loyalists when their own position is now pretty much identical to the Loyalists they are supposed to be arguing against.
Matt was unable to work that out from my post stating McWhirter was not a "nationalist", like most frothers on here he has ZERO clue about Scotland and the politics. As you say it was merely trolling by a loyalist supporter.0 -
I'd vote against it too as a stupid stunt. Unfortunately for Labour, it's now rather awkward for them to take that line, having teed themselves up to vote in favour of it two weeks ago.Pulpstar said:
Meh if I was an independent I'd vote against it. I'd have certainly voted in favour of the most recent Conservative budget though.antifrank said:
George Osborne doesn't care which way they vote. If they follow his call, it maximises the Labour split. If they unite behind Jeremy Corbyn, he can tar the whole Labour party as anti-austerity deficit deniers. From his viewpoint it's now win-win.MikeK said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Chancellor George Osborne is urging "moderate" Labour MPs to rebel against their leadership and support his plan to balance the economy in a vote later.
And they call Osborne a master tactician? The big tit should keep his mouth shut to get better results.0 -
Mr. Palmer, I saw episode 1 of season 5 on Sunday [shan't be spoiling it, of course].
I think it's a natural stance to take. It'd be brave indeed to have the protagonists within the CIA, and make the CIA an instrument of evil.
As for 'Muslims being evil', the premise is about fighting terrorism. It could down the weak-kneed route of referring to unofficial splinter groups denounced by XYZ, or it can tackle something more realistic. Unfortunately, Boko Haram, Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Al-Nusra and the Taliban are unified by something more significant than a predilection for beards.
Also worth noting that a number of significant characters on the 'good' side were Muslim.
On the CIA front: at least one recurring character is dodgy as hell.0 -
As an aside, I recently read a book about Archie Cameron, who lived on Rum as a child in the early 1900s. 'Bare feet and tackety boots'Carnyx said:
IIRC, reintroduction of wolves was actively considered for Rum in the 1970s-1980s but it was decided that the island was too small to support a reasonably sized population without the normal stochastic variation of population leading to local extinction too soon.JosiasJessop said:
Highland Cows probably pose more risk to campers and walkers than wolves.foxinsoxuk said:
Those midges feast on tourists already. I would swap them for wolves anyday.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
Having said that, I'm not in favour of the reintroduction of wolves into the Highlands.
Lynx is much more doable in any case. Smaller, higher population density, eat smaller prey.
But overpopulation of Red Deer continues to be a worry.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bare-Feet-Tackety-Boots-Boyhood/dp/0946487170
A quite fascinating portrayal of poverty amongst riches.0 -
I'd bolt as soon as I saw you as wellTGOHF said:
Bears are pretty timid and attacks on humans are rare. I saw a bunch this summer in the wilds of the US - they bolted as soon as they saw us every time.SandyRentool said:
It doesn't stop people going camping in the US or Canada.richardDodd said:I have camped in some of those remote areas of Scotland...I would hate to be woken up by a very hungry wolf looking for breakfast...with me as the main course.
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Given Michelle Thompson was their idea of a successful businesswomen, it's no surprise the SNP can't get a decent rate of growth going.TGOHF said:Scottish unemployement rises 18,000 to 170,000
Why are the SNP failing the country so badly ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-34469567
"It's getting harder to sustain the argument that the Scottish economy has at least kept pace with the rest of the UK."0 -
Mr. Antifrank, it's also a golden opportunity for Labour MPs to kick Corbyn. If they have the stomach for the fight.0
