politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » And this afternoon Mr. Corbyn’s big speech..
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This feels a bit like a shopping list of different policies - no real coherence.0
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Of course, you know it comes from regularly published dubious statistics that have gained a megaphone with Piketty's book. I believe that if you look at the period from say 1975-2015, you can make a valid argument that there has been a concentration of wealth in relative terms, but on a historical scale, it's nothing like the concentration of wealth into the hands of a tiny elite in ancient civilizations or, as you point out, in Victorian times.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't know where this bizarre idea that there is more inequality now in a globalised world than before comes from. The inequality in the UK or the US in, say, 1900 was massively greater than anything we now see, with the super rich such as the Rockefellers or Andrew Carnegie, or the traditionally wealthy of England, contrasting with many ordinary people who were unable to afford basic food and clothing.
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Let's see if he's daft enough to mention 'corporate welfare' in a minute, just after asking government to subsidise the steel plant.Big_G_NorthWales said:Backing steel in Redcar is predictable but is unsustainable with collapse of world steel prices an massive glut in China Shows same old labour cant make desperately difficult decisions
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You Red Tory!Danny565 said:This feels a bit like a shopping list of different policies - no real coherence.
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TheScreamingEagles said:
Corbyn also needs to learn about cadence
Ugh, it's just awful. His refugee stuff now ain't gonna win people over. You can't complain about lack of housing etc then complain not enough being done.0 -
I thought the "security" bit was quite good. Not in his mouth, of course, because the other side of that coin is how he would go about redressing it, but the bit about household debt, manufacturing, asset price inflation, was well made and absolutely right.0
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I was thinking it was more a collection of various protest marches he's been on cobbled together.Danny565 said:
This feels a bit like a shopping list of different policies - no real coherence.
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I have to admit I wasn't expecting to ever find myself in the right-wing half of the Labour membership, but per the leadership results apparently I now am.TheScreamingEagles said:
You Red Tory!Danny565 said:This feels a bit like a shopping list of different policies - no real coherence.
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This is a random pick and mix - I'm getting sea sick trying to stick with it.0
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Surprisingly muted audience response to the Iraq criticism...0
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OK excellent - now moved on to malletting New Lab.0
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Following the union/trident stuff my Blairite friend put it to meDanny565 said:
I have to admit I wasn't expecting to ever find myself in the right-wing half of the Labour membership, but per the leadership results apparently I now am.TheScreamingEagles said:
You Red Tory!Danny565 said:This feels a bit like a shopping list of different policies - no real coherence.
"You know we're f*cked when the unions are now the voice of centrist moderation in the Labour Party"0 -
Everything in that Tory "Corbyn is a threat to..." Video can be backed up by this conference speech, in my opinion.Scrapheap_as_was said:This is a random pick and mix - I'm getting sea sick trying to stick with it.
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I'd contest it too. Who decides and how "far too much" is? If I work twice as hard as my colleague, it is only fair that I be paid more than them. Indeed it could be deemed unfair to take from those who work hard to give to those who don't.antifrank said:
I'd contest it strongly. The question is not how much the ultra rich have. The question is whether the rest of us have enough.taffys said:The central point that Corbyn makes - that the ultra rich have far too much relative to the rest of us - is pretty much incontestable.
The Left seeks to appropriate the "fairness" concept to itself, while forgetting that others can have very different ideas of what is or is not "fair" and that fairness does not relate only to outcomes. Hence their failure to understand why people on modest incomes earned through working find it unfair that people on benefits should get more, let alone unlimited amounts, for not working and paid for by those who work and earn less.
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He seems more pre-occupied with the middle East than middle England.0
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Is this the longest any Labour leader has spent talking about foreign affairs? All feels like easy bashing/feel good emoting to me.0
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Philip Cowley @philipjcowley 1 min1 minute ago
It's like the worst Father of the Bride speech ever.
We await Henry Manson's tweet from the hall - the make it stop during Ed's one was brilliant0 -
corbyn seems to be equating what happened within labour with the rest of the country agreeing as well.0
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Has Andy Burnham been lending him football analogies?0
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Blair spent a lot of his conferences from 2001 onwards talking about Foreign affairs.Plato_Says said:Is this the longest any Labour leader has spent talking about foreign affairs? All feels like easy bashing/feel good emoting to me.
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So what is his answer to Syria? How do you reach a diplomatic deal with ISIL?0
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Errrrr. labour as a football team?
it's like the general election never happened.0 -
Patrick Wintour @patrickwintour
He did not mention the club just got relegated in the Spring
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr
The problem with that football analogy is that it didn't involve winning any matches.0 -
I am fizzing!!0
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@georgeeaton: The number of supporters in the stands doesn't determine the result on the pitch. #lab150
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Please don't let your fizz explode in public.bigjohnowls said:I am fizzing!!
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cross or excitedbigjohnowls said:I am fizzing!!
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How many times has he bashed the media so far? I'm losing count.0
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So he's happy in his social media echo chamber...0
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And now he's handing over policy to members who are shown to be far more left wing than moderate s and the electorate. Bloody suicidal.0
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Labour are going to use social media to win elections?
Chortle.0 -
Slackbladder said:
Errrrr. labour as a football team?
it's like the general election never happened.
"labour as a football team?"
Didn't Corbyn score with Abbott?
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Good, isn't it?Razedabode said:And now he's handing over policy to members who are shown to be far more left wing than moderate s and the electorate. Bloody suicidal.
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It appears so - bring it on!Slackbladder said:
So he's happy in his social media echo chamber...
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Ah, the fabled Ground Game.TheScreamingEagles said:Labour are going to use social media to win elections?
Chortle.
Hold on, was Corbyn a regular poster here before May 2015?0 -
The problem with patrick wintours analogy is that they didn't get relegated, they stayed as the oppositionTissue_Price said:Patrick Wintour @patrickwintour
He did not mention the club just got relegated in the Spring
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr
The problem with that football analogy is that it didn't involve winning any matches.
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When did you last vote Labour?Razedabode said:And now he's handing over policy to members who are shown to be far more left wing than moderate s and the electorate. Bloody suicidal.
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I'm at work so not watching it live, but judging by the Guardian live blog it seems oddly like a resignation speech, as though he's urging the party to do things after he's gone.0
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So in summary:
The Labour party continues to talk to the Labour Party.
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No pig in the bingo then0
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What is he wibbling about re electoral register??0
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Declan Cashin @Tweet_Dec 26m26 minutes ago
“Bottom up, not top down,” says Corbyn, going for a specific part of the gay vote #Lab150 -
Have the press ever applauded a conference speech. I mean at a football match do you ever see a long lens press photographer cheering when Man U go 1-0 up rather than trying to get a photo of Andy Burnham Wayne Rooney kissing the badgeTissue_Price said:Jack Monroe has excelled herself with the worst tweet I've ever seen of hers (to be fair, I don't follow her, so she may have better in her back catalogue):
"Only people NOT standing for Corbyn was this press section. Rest gave a few mins standing ovation."
twitter.com/DrJackMonroe/status/648851738091503616
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If he starts talking about Labour outworking the Tories in Cornwall or Al Gore Rhythms (sic)watford30 said:
Ah, the fabled Ground Game.TheScreamingEagles said:Labour are going to use social media to win elections?
Chortle.
Hold on, was Corbyn a regular poster here before May 2015?0 -
Is it too late to bring back EdM ..0
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Perhaps he could pop over and chat with them - as he did with the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Salah and others.GarethoftheVale2 said:So what is his answer to Syria? How do you reach a diplomatic deal with ISIL?
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Did Labour oppose individual voter registration???0
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The reds are v quiet during this speech - we blues are always going to be negative but what's the red view please?0
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y what on earth is he talking about 4m people disappearing from the electoral register?Plato_Says said:What is he wibbling about re electoral register??
@bigjohnowls...@JWisemann...anyone?0 -
Whining about the ghost voters who were rumbled and removed from the roll. Oh dear, what a shame.TOPPING said:
y what on earth is he talking about 4m people disappearing from the electoral register?Plato_Says said:What is he wibbling about re electoral register??
@bigjohnowls...@JWisemann...anyone?0 -
2010, actually. Then rapidly lost faith thereafter.bigjohnowls said:
When did you last vote Labour?Razedabode said:And now he's handing over policy to members who are shown to be far more left wing than moderate s and the electorate. Bloody suicidal.
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He's primarily talking about students who are not registered in their university towns. It's a Lab/LD/Green issue in the main.0
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Well, he's certainly unspun. Did I actually hear him mutter, 'I've not finished yet' at one point when they clapped too much?0
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Who decides and how "far too much" is?
Perhaps a study of the French and Russian revolutions might be instructive.
Personally I see the relative gap between wealthiest and poorest as a bit like an elastic band. And it is getting stretched.0 -
The only occasion I can think of was that apparently the press applauded when Thatcher appeared at the conference to give her speech only hours after the IRA had tried to asssassinate her and while they were still pulling victims from the wreckage. That was before the speech.Pulpstar said:
Have the press ever applauded a conference speech. I mean at a football match do you ever see a long lens press photographer cheering when Man U go 1-0 up rather than trying to get a photo of Andy Burnham Wayne Rooney kissing the badgeTissue_Price said:Jack Monroe has excelled herself with the worst tweet I've ever seen of hers (to be fair, I don't follow her, so she may have better in her back catalogue):
"Only people NOT standing for Corbyn was this press section. Rest gave a few mins standing ovation."
twitter.com/DrJackMonroe/status/648851738091503616 ?
Her sheer courage deserved applause, IMO - and I was never a fan of hers.
Standing up to bullies who use violence is a core British value, shared by the majority, I would guess.
Corbyn, of course, was busy inviting those behind the atrocity to Parliament the following week.
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OK I am genuinely not sure if he has actually said anything in the past 25 minutes.0
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LOL, I thought that.rottenborough said:Well, he's certainly unspun. Did I actually hear him mutter, 'I've not finished yet' at one point when they clapped too much?
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I do hope not. Jezza needs to stay in place till at least Jan 2017 for my financial health !Richard_Nabavi said:I'm at work so not watching it live, but judging by the Guardian live blog it seems oddly like a resignation speech, as though he's urging the party to do things after he's gone.
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Surely a student can register in their uni town if they want to - they just won't be auto enrolled - and often they're on their parents address too.chestnut said:
He's primarily talking about students who are not registered in their university towns. It's a Lab/LD/Green issue in the main.
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@ShippersUnbound: Corbyn's 1st big campaign will be registering voters. As a frontbencher says: "the thing about non voters is that they don't f-ing vote..."0
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Indeed, and never forget the other weasel-words "All we are asking is that people pay a little bit more..."Cyclefree said:The Left seeks to appropriate the "fairness" concept to itself,
Regimes in which hard work is not rewarded are, nowadays, found in either books on 20th century political history or in North Korea. I wonder why that might be? Mrs Thatcher's dictum that "... the problem with socialism is that it runs out of other people's money .. " has been tested to the limit.Cyclefree said:Hence their failure to understand why people on modest incomes earned through working find it unfair that people on benefits should get more, let alone unlimited amounts, for not working and paid for by those who work and earn less.
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Good afternoon, everyone.
Decided against watching the speech. With Miliband and Clegg, it seemed more interesting/worthwhile.0 -
Yes me too... Funny!Danny565 said:
LOL, I thought that.rottenborough said:Well, he's certainly unspun. Did I actually hear him mutter, 'I've not finished yet' at one point when they clapped too much?
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Yes, but lots of them fail to do it. It's another dead end, because these places are already overwhelmingly left-leaning.Plato_Says said:Surely a student can register in their uni town if they want to - they just won't be auto enrolled - and often they're on their parents address too.
He/Labour needs to win over the centrist and soft-right vote.
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People who will be removed from the register unless they apply to register under the new systemTOPPING said:
y what on earth is he talking about 4m people disappearing from the electoral register?Plato_Says said:What is he wibbling about re electoral register??
@bigjohnowls...@JWisemann...anyone?
If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register.
If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.0 -
It's madness, but only if they use it in the way they used it in 2010 or 2015, when social media was awash with Labourites talking to themselves in one massive worldwide echo chamber.TheScreamingEagles said:Labour are going to use social media to win elections?
Chortle.
Social media is best used when it is strictly targeted. Labotu have three options in 2020:
1) To use social media as they did in 2010 and 2015.
2) To use it as the Conservatives did in 2015.
3) To use it in a way suitable for 2020, when the social media world will be fairly different.
The only effective way is 3). And that will cost a great deal of money.0 -
Clobbering the self employed with tax cuts!!!0
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Patrick Wintour @patrickwintour · 59s59 seconds ago
Bring back Gareth.0 -
I'm giving up on this.0
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Indeed, and never forget the other weasel-words "All we are asking is that people pay a little bit more..."
I don't think anybody is arguing that CEOs deserve to be much better paid than, say, nurses or social workers. After all its shareholder money not tax payer money. Indeed the taxpayer is the winner.
Corbyn's point is the multiple is vast. and getting vaster. It would be naive to think people aren't noticing.0 -
From looking over the postings below... "did he say this? Did mean that? Did he really say the other???" it seems obvious that whatever else Corbyn's speech is, a model of clarity it is not.
Ah well, plenty of wiggle room for later.0 -
Going to renationalise railways after the most successful period in the last century.
DeludoJeremy.0 -
oh dear he really is dreadful. On self-employed benefits "so all new born children get the same care"...what??!!
This is as funny and awful as we dared to hope it might be. I think he really does like the sound of his own voice.
No vision, nothing to get behind (apart from motherhood, niceness and apple pie), I would be 2x distraught if I was still a Lab supporter.
I bet @NickPalmer thinks it is a masterpiece of political acuity.0 -
Stephen Bush @stephenkb 6m6 minutes ago
I think that tax credits cuts will be like the 10p tax cut or the poll tax once implemented. But the Tories survived the poll tax... #lab15
(What he didn't add: the Tories only survived the poll tax because they changed to a leader who wasn't associated with it.)0 -
So they register then - it's not hard. I got a new registration envelop just last week. Everyone has to register if they want to vote - no one is preventing them in some disenfranchising conspiracy.
Corbyn was talking bollox.bigjohnowls said:
People who will be removed from the register unless they apply to register under the new systemTOPPING said:
y what on earth is he talking about 4m people disappearing from the electoral register?Plato_Says said:What is he wibbling about re electoral register??
@bigjohnowls...@JWisemann...anyone?
If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register.
If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.0 -
Spurs? Don't blame you.Scrapheap_as_was said:I'm giving up on this.
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Only 70% (tops) of registered voters will ever vote. I never heard a peep from anyone on SM or otherwise complaining that they weren't registered and couldn't vote. Lots of other complaints but not that specific one. Getting the unregistered to register and actually vote sounds like a very tall order. And even if you do (Which is more or less Mission Impossible), then they stack up in Labour constituencies creating a pro Tory electoral bias away from the current theoretical 10 million each which is broadly neutral (I think).TheScreamingEagles said:@ShippersUnbound: Corbyn's 1st big campaign will be registering voters. As a frontbencher says: "the thing about non voters is that they don't f-ing vote..."
It's bonkers !0 -
His last conference speech as leader...0
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That is true enough, I am not arguing that point, but simply yanking money off people and talking about 60% (or higher) taxes will not solve it either.taffys said:
Corbyn's point is the multiple is vast. and getting vaster. It would be naive to think people aren't noticing.0 -
universal credit and tax credit changes are quite canny. When they were first setup it became clear fairly quickly that it didnt take much intelligence to reduce your income and get thwacking amounts in tax credits.
Now what will happen is that you have to show you are earning the equivalent of minimum wage and show that you are in fact running a business to make a profit.
It was a gigantic scam.0 -
I do think that there is an issue with social cohesion when you have rich people with no obligation to the society in which they live. But the far left answer has led to far worse consequences - usually involving the death of many and a society far more unbearable to all than the one they were trying to improve.taffys said:Who decides and how "far too much" is?
Perhaps a study of the French and Russian revolutions might be instructive.
Personally I see the relative gap between wealthiest and poorest as a bit like an elastic band. And it is getting stretched.
How to achieve a society where hard work is rewarded, where people don't get something for nothing and where people take responsibility, especially when they are rewarded well are the questions. I don't believe that Corbyn or those who think like him have the answers.
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thanks.bigjohnowls said:
People who will be removed from the register unless they apply to register under the new systemTOPPING said:
y what on earth is he talking about 4m people disappearing from the electoral register?Plato_Says said:What is he wibbling about re electoral register??
@bigjohnowls...@JWisemann...anyone?
If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register.
If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.
And that is indicative of the oppression of the masses by the military-industrial complex why?0 -
He's very good. ignore those who are commenting on this thread every other minute. They're more interested in their own voice than his.0
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Feel a bit like I'm being criticised for being able to own a property here....0
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Not to mention that 35m people are being transferred automatically.Plato_Says said:So they register then - it's not hard. I got a new registration envelop just last week. Everyone has to register if they want to vote - no one is preventing them in some disenfranchising conspiracy.
Corbyn was talking bollox.bigjohnowls said:
People who will be removed from the register unless they apply to register under the new systemTOPPING said:
y what on earth is he talking about 4m people disappearing from the electoral register?Plato_Says said:What is he wibbling about re electoral register??
@bigjohnowls...@JWisemann...anyone?
If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register.
If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.0 -
People who bought their council house were, for the first time in their family for multiple generations to have ever owned anything, and passed it down.0
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I hope so if they're all this boring.
*stifles another yawn*TGOHF said:His last conference speech as leader...
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''That is true enough, I am not arguing that point, but simply yanking money off people and talking about 60% (or higher) taxes will not solve it either. ''
Oh I agree with you it would solve nothing. It would clobber the middle, not the top. Indeed, I've never seen a good solution to tempting the rich to part with a bit more, either through spending or taxation or charity.0 -
He's boringRoger said:He's very good. ignore those who are commenting on this thread every other minute. They're more interested in their own voice than his.
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I suspect the word 'rambling' will appear rather a lot in journalists' comments about this speech. Did the Autocue jumble up the sections?0
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'' I don't believe that Corbyn or those who think like him have the answers.''
100% agree. Trouble is, I don;t think anyone has the answers. And I think that's a worry.0 -
The multiple is vast and the ever increasing CEO packages are often a bit of a scam. The real problem is that they are so often completely unconnected with performance and when something goes wrong it is the devil's own job to get the CEO to take responsibility and, often as not, he gets paid a whole load more to go away. The same happens in the public sector.taffys said:Indeed, and never forget the other weasel-words "All we are asking is that people pay a little bit more..."
I don't think anybody is arguing that CEOs deserve to be much better paid than, say, nurses or social workers. After all its shareholder money not tax payer money. Indeed the taxpayer is the winner.
Corbyn's point is the multiple is vast. and getting vaster. It would be naive to think people aren't noticing.
Reward for real achievement and reintroducing the concept of taking responsibility would be fine things. Do we really expect these from Labour?
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Before the election, everyone on the roll was matched to tax and benefits data. Those who matched were kept on the roll. Those who didn't match were sent a letter and asked to send proof they were entitled to vote. Anyone who hasn't replied to the letter will be removed from the register in December. A lot of these are likely to be people who have died or moved and some may be fraudulent.Plato_Says said:So they register then - it's not hard. I got a new registration envelop just last week. Everyone has to register if they want to vote - no one is preventing them in some disenfranchising conspiracy.
Corbyn was talking bollox.bigjohnowls said:
People who will be removed from the register unless they apply to register under the new systemTOPPING said:
y what on earth is he talking about 4m people disappearing from the electoral register?Plato_Says said:What is he wibbling about re electoral register??
@bigjohnowls...@JWisemann...anyone?
If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register.
If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.0 -
Deficit?0
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Finishing with a quote from a Scottish separatist.
Pretty notable that he only spent two sentences in that entire speech on Scotland And they were merely glib praise for Kezia).0 -
the black spotRoger said:He's very good. ignore those who are commenting on this thread every other minute. They're more interested in their own voice than his.
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