I don't know where this bizarre idea that there is more inequality now in a globalised world than before comes from. The inequality in the UK or the US in, say, 1900 was massively greater than anything we now see, with the super rich such as the Rockefellers or Andrew Carnegie, or the traditionally wealthy of England, contrasting with many ordinary people who were unable to afford basic food and clothing.
Of course, you know it comes from regularly published dubious statistics that have gained a megaphone with Piketty's book. I believe that if you look at the period from say 1975-2015, you can make a valid argument that there has been a concentration of wealth in relative terms, but on a historical scale, it's nothing like the concentration of wealth into the hands of a tiny elite in ancient civilizations or, as you point out, in Victorian times.
Backing steel in Redcar is predictable but is unsustainable with collapse of world steel prices an massive glut in China Shows same old labour cant make desperately difficult decisions
Let's see if he's daft enough to mention 'corporate welfare' in a minute, just after asking government to subsidise the steel plant.
Ugh, it's just awful. His refugee stuff now ain't gonna win people over. You can't complain about lack of housing etc then complain not enough being done.
I thought the "security" bit was quite good. Not in his mouth, of course, because the other side of that coin is how he would go about redressing it, but the bit about household debt, manufacturing, asset price inflation, was well made and absolutely right.
This feels a bit like a shopping list of different policies - no real coherence.
You Red Tory!
I have to admit I wasn't expecting to ever find myself in the right-wing half of the Labour membership, but per the leadership results apparently I now am.
This feels a bit like a shopping list of different policies - no real coherence.
You Red Tory!
I have to admit I wasn't expecting to ever find myself in the right-wing half of the Labour membership, but per the leadership results apparently I now am.
Following the union/trident stuff my Blairite friend put it to me
"You know we're f*cked when the unions are now the voice of centrist moderation in the Labour Party"
The central point that Corbyn makes - that the ultra rich have far too much relative to the rest of us - is pretty much incontestable.
I'd contest it strongly. The question is not how much the ultra rich have. The question is whether the rest of us have enough.
I'd contest it too. Who decides and how "far too much" is? If I work twice as hard as my colleague, it is only fair that I be paid more than them. Indeed it could be deemed unfair to take from those who work hard to give to those who don't.
The Left seeks to appropriate the "fairness" concept to itself, while forgetting that others can have very different ideas of what is or is not "fair" and that fairness does not relate only to outcomes. Hence their failure to understand why people on modest incomes earned through working find it unfair that people on benefits should get more, let alone unlimited amounts, for not working and paid for by those who work and earn less.
I'm at work so not watching it live, but judging by the Guardian live blog it seems oddly like a resignation speech, as though he's urging the party to do things after he's gone.
Jack Monroe has excelled herself with the worst tweet I've ever seen of hers (to be fair, I don't follow her, so she may have better in her back catalogue):
"Only people NOT standing for Corbyn was this press section. Rest gave a few mins standing ovation."
Have the press ever applauded a conference speech. I mean at a football match do you ever see a long lens press photographer cheering when Man U go 1-0 up rather than trying to get a photo of Andy Burnham Wayne Rooney kissing the badge ?
Jack Monroe has excelled herself with the worst tweet I've ever seen of hers (to be fair, I don't follow her, so she may have better in her back catalogue):
"Only people NOT standing for Corbyn was this press section. Rest gave a few mins standing ovation."
Have the press ever applauded a conference speech. I mean at a football match do you ever see a long lens press photographer cheering when Man U go 1-0 up rather than trying to get a photo of Andy Burnham Wayne Rooney kissing the badge ?
The only occasion I can think of was that apparently the press applauded when Thatcher appeared at the conference to give her speech only hours after the IRA had tried to asssassinate her and while they were still pulling victims from the wreckage. That was before the speech.
Her sheer courage deserved applause, IMO - and I was never a fan of hers.
Standing up to bullies who use violence is a core British value, shared by the majority, I would guess.
Corbyn, of course, was busy inviting those behind the atrocity to Parliament the following week.
I'm at work so not watching it live, but judging by the Guardian live blog it seems oddly like a resignation speech, as though he's urging the party to do things after he's gone.
I do hope not. Jezza needs to stay in place till at least Jan 2017 for my financial health !
@ShippersUnbound: Corbyn's 1st big campaign will be registering voters. As a frontbencher says: "the thing about non voters is that they don't f-ing vote..."
Hence their failure to understand why people on modest incomes earned through working find it unfair that people on benefits should get more, let alone unlimited amounts, for not working and paid for by those who work and earn less.
Regimes in which hard work is not rewarded are, nowadays, found in either books on 20th century political history or in North Korea. I wonder why that might be? Mrs Thatcher's dictum that "... the problem with socialism is that it runs out of other people's money .. " has been tested to the limit.
People who will be removed from the register unless they apply to register under the new system If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register. If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.
Labour are going to use social media to win elections?
Chortle.
It's madness, but only if they use it in the way they used it in 2010 or 2015, when social media was awash with Labourites talking to themselves in one massive worldwide echo chamber.
Social media is best used when it is strictly targeted. Labotu have three options in 2020:
1) To use social media as they did in 2010 and 2015. 2) To use it as the Conservatives did in 2015. 3) To use it in a way suitable for 2020, when the social media world will be fairly different.
The only effective way is 3). And that will cost a great deal of money.
Indeed, and never forget the other weasel-words "All we are asking is that people pay a little bit more..."
I don't think anybody is arguing that CEOs deserve to be much better paid than, say, nurses or social workers. After all its shareholder money not tax payer money. Indeed the taxpayer is the winner.
Corbyn's point is the multiple is vast. and getting vaster. It would be naive to think people aren't noticing.
From looking over the postings below... "did he say this? Did mean that? Did he really say the other???" it seems obvious that whatever else Corbyn's speech is, a model of clarity it is not.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb 6m6 minutes ago I think that tax credits cuts will be like the 10p tax cut or the poll tax once implemented. But the Tories survived the poll tax... #lab15
(What he didn't add: the Tories only survived the poll tax because they changed to a leader who wasn't associated with it.)
So they register then - it's not hard. I got a new registration envelop just last week. Everyone has to register if they want to vote - no one is preventing them in some disenfranchising conspiracy.
People who will be removed from the register unless they apply to register under the new system If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register. If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.
@ShippersUnbound: Corbyn's 1st big campaign will be registering voters. As a frontbencher says: "the thing about non voters is that they don't f-ing vote..."
Only 70% (tops) of registered voters will ever vote. I never heard a peep from anyone on SM or otherwise complaining that they weren't registered and couldn't vote. Lots of other complaints but not that specific one. Getting the unregistered to register and actually vote sounds like a very tall order. And even if you do (Which is more or less Mission Impossible), then they stack up in Labour constituencies creating a pro Tory electoral bias away from the current theoretical 10 million each which is broadly neutral (I think).
Corbyn's point is the multiple is vast. and getting vaster. It would be naive to think people aren't noticing.
That is true enough, I am not arguing that point, but simply yanking money off people and talking about 60% (or higher) taxes will not solve it either.
universal credit and tax credit changes are quite canny. When they were first setup it became clear fairly quickly that it didnt take much intelligence to reduce your income and get thwacking amounts in tax credits.
Now what will happen is that you have to show you are earning the equivalent of minimum wage and show that you are in fact running a business to make a profit.
Perhaps a study of the French and Russian revolutions might be instructive.
Personally I see the relative gap between wealthiest and poorest as a bit like an elastic band. And it is getting stretched.
I do think that there is an issue with social cohesion when you have rich people with no obligation to the society in which they live. But the far left answer has led to far worse consequences - usually involving the death of many and a society far more unbearable to all than the one they were trying to improve.
How to achieve a society where hard work is rewarded, where people don't get something for nothing and where people take responsibility, especially when they are rewarded well are the questions. I don't believe that Corbyn or those who think like him have the answers.
People who will be removed from the register unless they apply to register under the new system If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register. If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.
thanks.
And that is indicative of the oppression of the masses by the military-industrial complex why?
So they register then - it's not hard. I got a new registration envelop just last week. Everyone has to register if they want to vote - no one is preventing them in some disenfranchising conspiracy.
People who will be removed from the register unless they apply to register under the new system If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register. If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.
Not to mention that 35m people are being transferred automatically.
People who bought their council house were, for the first time in their family for multiple generations to have ever owned anything, and passed it down.
''That is true enough, I am not arguing that point, but simply yanking money off people and talking about 60% (or higher) taxes will not solve it either. ''
Oh I agree with you it would solve nothing. It would clobber the middle, not the top. Indeed, I've never seen a good solution to tempting the rich to part with a bit more, either through spending or taxation or charity.
Indeed, and never forget the other weasel-words "All we are asking is that people pay a little bit more..."
I don't think anybody is arguing that CEOs deserve to be much better paid than, say, nurses or social workers. After all its shareholder money not tax payer money. Indeed the taxpayer is the winner.
Corbyn's point is the multiple is vast. and getting vaster. It would be naive to think people aren't noticing.
The multiple is vast and the ever increasing CEO packages are often a bit of a scam. The real problem is that they are so often completely unconnected with performance and when something goes wrong it is the devil's own job to get the CEO to take responsibility and, often as not, he gets paid a whole load more to go away. The same happens in the public sector.
Reward for real achievement and reintroducing the concept of taking responsibility would be fine things. Do we really expect these from Labour?
So they register then - it's not hard. I got a new registration envelop just last week. Everyone has to register if they want to vote - no one is preventing them in some disenfranchising conspiracy.
People who will be removed from the register unless they apply to register under the new system If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register. If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.
Before the election, everyone on the roll was matched to tax and benefits data. Those who matched were kept on the roll. Those who didn't match were sent a letter and asked to send proof they were entitled to vote. Anyone who hasn't replied to the letter will be removed from the register in December. A lot of these are likely to be people who have died or moved and some may be fraudulent.
Comments
Ugh, it's just awful. His refugee stuff now ain't gonna win people over. You can't complain about lack of housing etc then complain not enough being done.
"You know we're f*cked when the unions are now the voice of centrist moderation in the Labour Party"
The Left seeks to appropriate the "fairness" concept to itself, while forgetting that others can have very different ideas of what is or is not "fair" and that fairness does not relate only to outcomes. Hence their failure to understand why people on modest incomes earned through working find it unfair that people on benefits should get more, let alone unlimited amounts, for not working and paid for by those who work and earn less.
It's like the worst Father of the Bride speech ever.
We await Henry Manson's tweet from the hall - the make it stop during Ed's one was brilliant
it's like the general election never happened.
He did not mention the club just got relegated in the Spring
Rafael Behr @rafaelbehr
The problem with that football analogy is that it didn't involve winning any matches.
Chortle.
"labour as a football team?"
Didn't Corbyn score with Abbott?
Hold on, was Corbyn a regular poster here before May 2015?
The Labour party continues to talk to the Labour Party.
“Bottom up, not top down,” says Corbyn, going for a specific part of the gay vote #Lab15
@bigjohnowls...@JWisemann...anyone?
Perhaps a study of the French and Russian revolutions might be instructive.
Personally I see the relative gap between wealthiest and poorest as a bit like an elastic band. And it is getting stretched.
Her sheer courage deserved applause, IMO - and I was never a fan of hers.
Standing up to bullies who use violence is a core British value, shared by the majority, I would guess.
Corbyn, of course, was busy inviting those behind the atrocity to Parliament the following week.
Regimes in which hard work is not rewarded are, nowadays, found in either books on 20th century political history or in North Korea. I wonder why that might be? Mrs Thatcher's dictum that "... the problem with socialism is that it runs out of other people's money .. " has been tested to the limit.
Decided against watching the speech. With Miliband and Clegg, it seemed more interesting/worthwhile.
He/Labour needs to win over the centrist and soft-right vote.
If you haven’t already applied individually to be on the electoral register, you’ll receive a letter asking you to register.
If you don't register under the new system your name will be removed on the 1 December.
Social media is best used when it is strictly targeted. Labotu have three options in 2020:
1) To use social media as they did in 2010 and 2015.
2) To use it as the Conservatives did in 2015.
3) To use it in a way suitable for 2020, when the social media world will be fairly different.
The only effective way is 3). And that will cost a great deal of money.
Bring back Gareth.
I don't think anybody is arguing that CEOs deserve to be much better paid than, say, nurses or social workers. After all its shareholder money not tax payer money. Indeed the taxpayer is the winner.
Corbyn's point is the multiple is vast. and getting vaster. It would be naive to think people aren't noticing.
Ah well, plenty of wiggle room for later.
DeludoJeremy.
This is as funny and awful as we dared to hope it might be. I think he really does like the sound of his own voice.
No vision, nothing to get behind (apart from motherhood, niceness and apple pie), I would be 2x distraught if I was still a Lab supporter.
I bet @NickPalmer thinks it is a masterpiece of political acuity.
I think that tax credits cuts will be like the 10p tax cut or the poll tax once implemented. But the Tories survived the poll tax... #lab15
(What he didn't add: the Tories only survived the poll tax because they changed to a leader who wasn't associated with it.)
Corbyn was talking bollox.
It's bonkers !
Now what will happen is that you have to show you are earning the equivalent of minimum wage and show that you are in fact running a business to make a profit.
It was a gigantic scam.
How to achieve a society where hard work is rewarded, where people don't get something for nothing and where people take responsibility, especially when they are rewarded well are the questions. I don't believe that Corbyn or those who think like him have the answers.
And that is indicative of the oppression of the masses by the military-industrial complex why?
*stifles another yawn*
Oh I agree with you it would solve nothing. It would clobber the middle, not the top. Indeed, I've never seen a good solution to tempting the rich to part with a bit more, either through spending or taxation or charity.
100% agree. Trouble is, I don;t think anyone has the answers. And I think that's a worry.
Reward for real achievement and reintroducing the concept of taking responsibility would be fine things. Do we really expect these from Labour?
Pretty notable that he only spent two sentences in that entire speech on Scotland And they were merely glib praise for Kezia).