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SystemSystem Posts: 12,597
edited September 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Antifrank on the choices of Jeremy Corbyn

Since being elected Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn has wandered into controversy after controversy.  Some of a these have been narrowly political but many have not.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,366
    edited September 2015
    First.

    At almost 7am?

    And the point about our “constitution” is that it isn’t written, and is therefore flexible.At one time, I suspect, it would have been de rigeur to wear a morning suit for, perchance, one’s first Privy Council attendance, and there was tut-tutting when someone .... Nye Bevan? .... didn’t. Similarly a requirement for attendance at a sporting occasion, even a very significant one, would have been surprising to our forebears; now non-attendance is a matter for comment.

    These things change and move on.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Far chance of Corbyn changing his ways.. Lots of rows coming up in the next few months.,.. Popcorn time.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    OldKingCole said:

    First.

    At almost 7am?

    And the point about our “constitution” is that it isn’t written, and is therefore flexible.At one time, I suspect, it would have been de rigeur to wear a morning suit for, perchance, one’s first Privy Council attendance, and there was tut-tutting when someone .... Nye Bevan? .... didn’t. Similarly a requirement for attendance at a sporting occasion, even a very significant one, would have been surprising to our forebears; now non-attendance is a matter for comment.

    These things change and move on.

    Things do indeed move on. Much of the tradition of parliament is obscurantist to the voters. I am sure that only a tiny percentage could describe the function of the Privy Council.

    Nonetheless it seems foolish to accumulate further enemies when they are already numerous. More significant is going to be his political behaviour rather than his social behaviour. The sleight of hand to avoid debating Trident will not have gone down well with his supporters.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    foxinsoxuk said:

    OldKingCole said:

    First.

    At almost 7am?

    And the point about our “constitution” is that it isn’t written, and is therefore flexible.At one time, I suspect, it would have been de rigeur to wear a morning suit for, perchance, one’s first Privy Council attendance, and there was tut-tutting when someone .... Nye Bevan? .... didn’t. Similarly a requirement for attendance at a sporting occasion, even a very significant one, would have been surprising to our forebears; now non-attendance is a matter for comment.

    These things change and move on.

    Things do indeed move on. Much of the tradition of parliament is obscurantist to the voters. I am sure that only a tiny percentage could describe the function of the Privy Council.

    Nonetheless it seems foolish to accumulate further enemies when they are already numerous. More significant is going to be his political behaviour rather than his social behaviour. The sleight of hand to avoid debating Trident will not have gone down well with his supporters.
    A man full of principles until he realises its a problem and then he is duplicitous as the next politician..

    He is nothing special, just a leader with bonkers policies.. end of story
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Thanks for another interesting article antifrank, which more or less parallels what is written here by Shaun Lawson:

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/shaun-lawson/corbyn-mostly-right-message-but-worst-possible-messenger

    I disagree with Lawson in some ways (I have had his choices that he comments that the commentariat are 'sneering' at Corbyn's supporters over, which is one reason why I'm so appalled that Corbyn rather than somebody passably sane is leading the only significant party of opposition) but it's interesting to note that he's also on about the messenger even though he's fully supportive of the message.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    We are waiting for the definitive from Jack W..
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2015
    What vital issue to the country will Labour refuse to discuss today..or are they waiting for Big Len to wake up and tell them....what a shambles..
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Antifrank, indeed. It's not especially fair or right, but we do judge by appearance.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Ho hum. JC and WB on one thread and it's only eight o'clock!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,230
    edited September 2015
    Our constitution is flexible, and if conventions and expected modes of behaviour no longer fit they will b replaced when they cause difficulty. I think some of the criticism of Corbyn's obstinacy is overdone. Nevertheless, find the general point of bagehot to be sound, and where something does no harm, like most of the more 'dignified' elements, there's nothing heroic in the stubbornness in not playing by the rules of the game.

    Doesn't mean you should not test which rules of that game are actually harmful, but just resisting for its own sake is unnecessary and distracts from what you ant to do. If the rules no longer serve any purpose they will,fall,on their own or when in power you can legislate them away by putting actual rules not conventions in play.

    As for media perceptions and public events, well, I think the furore was overdone, but better to,play it safe than risk the wrong impression making some point most people won't care about. Everyone does it, you don't talk, dress or act in the same way for all situations.

    Ps a bit shorter than some previous offerings, I hope antifrank didn't take the criticism of a few malcontents to heart. :)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    Michael Deacon nailed Comrade Corbyn's slipperiness on Marr - I was AMAZED that so many supposedly sharp political commentators fell for his obfuscation, issue avoidance and ridiculous excuses just because he wasn't using a megaphone. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11894559/Labour-conference-2015-Jeremy-Corbyn-starts-spinning.html
    Six times Jeremy Corbyn seemed happier to dodge rather than answer the question:

    1. When asked 'Do you condemn John McDonnell for praising the IRA?'
    Corbyn stormed into his car and slammed the door
    2. When asked: 'Will you campaign to leave the EU?'
    It took Mr Corbyn three days to clarify, in an editorial, that Labour would fight to remain in the EU
    3. When asked 'Why no women in the top posts of your cabinet?'
    He simply walked on in silence, calling out to a staffer, "there is people bothering me"
    4. When asked 'Why didn't you sing the national anthem?'
    Corbyn refused to explain himself to reporters, simply dashing to his car
    5. When asked 'Will you ever sing the national anthem?
    Corbyn could only respond that he would "take part fully" in future events
    6. When asked ' Will you kneel before the Queen when you're sworn in?'
    He replied: "Haven't been invited yet. I haven't made up my mind..."

    SquareRoot said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    OldKingCole said:

    First.

    At almost 7am?

    And the point about our “constitution” is that it isn’t written, and is therefore flexible.At one time, I suspect, it would have been de rigeur to wear a morning suit for, perchance, one’s first Privy Council attendance, and there was tut-tutting when someone .... Nye Bevan? .... didn’t. Similarly a requirement for attendance at a sporting occasion, even a very significant one, would have been surprising to our forebears; now non-attendance is a matter for comment.

    These things change and move on.

    Things do indeed move on. Much of the tradition of parliament is obscurantist to the voters. I am sure that only a tiny percentage could describe the function of the Privy Council.

    Nonetheless it seems foolish to accumulate further enemies when they are already numerous. More significant is going to be his political behaviour rather than his social behaviour. The sleight of hand to avoid debating Trident will not have gone down well with his supporters.
    A man full of principles until he realises its a problem and then he is duplicitous as the next politician..

    He is nothing special, just a leader with bonkers policies.. end of story
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    Our constitution is flexible, and if conventions and expected modes of behaviour no longer fit they will b replaced when they cause difficulty. I think some of the criticism of Corbyn's obstinacy is overdone. Nevertheless, find the general point of bagehot to be sound, and where something does no harm, like most of the more 'dignified' elements, there's nothing heroic in the stubbornness in not playing by the rules of the game.

    Doesn't mean you should not test which rules of that game are actually harmful, but just resisting for its own sake is unnecessary and distracts from what you ant to do. If the rules no longer serve any purpose they will,fall,on their own or when in power you can legislate them away by putting actual rules not conventions in play.

    As for media perceptions and public events, well, I think the furore was overdone, but better to,play it safe than risk the wrong impression making some point most people won't care about. Everyone does it, you don't talk, dress or act in the same way for all situations.

    Ps a bit shorter than some previous offerings, I hope antifrank didn't take the criticism of a few malcontents to heart. :)

    One should always listen to constructive criticism.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    I think JC's got a hearing. Not from Tory Peebies, of course, who'd be perfectly happy if every Labour supporter fell under a number 11 bus, but from those who are not committed but nonetheless interested in politics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,230
    antifrank said:

    kle4 said:

    Our constitution is flexible, and if conventions and expected modes of behaviour no longer fit they will b replaced when they cause difficulty. I think some of the criticism of Corbyn's obstinacy is overdone. Nevertheless, find the general point of bagehot to be sound, and where something does no harm, like most of the more 'dignified' elements, there's nothing heroic in the stubbornness in not playing by the rules of the game.

    Doesn't mean you should not test which rules of that game are actually harmful, but just resisting for its own sake is unnecessary and distracts from what you ant to do. If the rules no longer serve any purpose they will,fall,on their own or when in power you can legislate them away by putting actual rules not conventions in play.

    As for media perceptions and public events, well, I think the furore was overdone, but better to,play it safe than risk the wrong impression making some point most people won't care about. Everyone does it, you don't talk, dress or act in the same way for all situations.

    Ps a bit shorter than some previous offerings, I hope antifrank didn't take the criticism of a few malcontents to heart. :)

    One should always listen to constructive criticism.
    That hardly seems in keeping with the age of corbynism; one should only listen to the like minded!

    I kid, corbynistas.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Oooh 'Corbyn needs a makeover' - what a facile article.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Meanwhile, Labour once again fails to recall that Robin Hood wanted less taxation, not more:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34375702

    A Robin Hood tax makes as much sense as a Casanova chastity belt.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm already sick of hearing "this is the new politics" - no it isn't. And McDonnell saying it 10x in 5 mins isn't going to convert me either.

    He's asking for access to the OBR and BoE models today. I wonder what GO will say. Yes seems an unlikely answer. He avoided answering about who's in charge of Labour.

    I've no idea - it seems like Uncle Len over Defence.
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,230
    I see another German minister is being accused of academic plagiarism - is this just a thing in Germany? I know our scandals are generally small scale stuff from the old days, but such an unsexy type of scandal to,have. Besides, I'd heard Martin Luther King plagiarised his doctorate and it did him no harm,
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    I see another German minister is being accused of academic plagiarism - is this just a thing in Germany? I know our scandals are generally small scale stuff from the old days, but such an unsexy type of scandal to,have. Besides, I'd heard Martin Luther King plagiarised his doctorate and it did him no harm,

    Not just Germany:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17586128
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.
    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Meanwhile, it seems that Jeremy Corbyn has started well in Wales:

    @election_data: @YouGov poll for ITV Wales (change since June):
    Lab 42% (+5)
    Con 26% (-2)
    UKIP 16% (+1)
    PC 10% (-2)
    LD 5% (+1)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    edited September 2015
    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    But nothing really summed up the days polls like 'EICIPM'. I think it'll be seen in a few of our headstones *ahem*
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,230
    Plato_Says said:

    I'm already sick of hearing "this is the new politics" - no it isn't. And McDonnell saying it 10x in 5 mins isn't going to convert me either.

    He's asking for access to the OBR and BoE models today. I wonder what GO will say. Yes seems an unlikely answer. He avoided answering about who's in charge of Labour.

    I've no idea - it seems like Uncle Len over Defence.

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    I agree on the new politics. One of my pet peeves is when successful groups or parties overdo how transformative they supposedly are, as if they do everything in an entirely new way, which is very rarely the case.its generally a transparent attempt to present opponents as has Beene and tap into an anti political mood, no matter how ridiculous - Andy burnham and even Jen bush trying to present as outsiders, which is a way of claiming to be of a new politics, springs to mind.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Corbyn has a natural dignity which Cameron wholly lacks. Despite Eton and Oxford Dave lacks class.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,009
    edited September 2015
    Corbyn bounce in Wales

    Welsh Poll. Changes since June


    Labour 42% (+5)
    Conservative: 26% (-2)
    UKIP: 16% (+1)
    Plaid Cymru: 10% (-2)
    Liberal Democrats: 5% (+1)
    Greens: 2% (-1)


    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-09-28/welsh-labours-corbyn-bounce/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,230
    edited September 2015
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    Corbyn has a natural dignity which Cameron wholly lacks. Despite Eton and Oxford Dave lacks class.

    I don't see that either lacks dignity generally. Cameron can cut a cruel jibe on occasion, but then we have pmqs for moments of theatre like that and I presume he has natural dignity as one of the praises and criticisms of him is a natural 'looks and sounds like a pm' thing - criticism as some think that's all it is, with no substance behind it - and I'm sure a shouty or evasive Corbyn will appear less dignified than his soft spoken standard approach.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I see a top Unite Exec bod has been caught agitating for deselections - frontpage Times http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4569748.ece
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,009
    Assembly constituency part

    Labour: 39% (+4)
    Conservatives: 23% (no change)
    Plaid Cymru: 18% (-2)
    UKIP: 13% (-1)
    Liberal Democrats: 6% (+1)
    Greens: 2% (-1)

    List part

    Labour: 34% (+2)
    Conservatives: 24% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru: 18% (-2)
    UKIP: 14% (no change)
    Liberal Democrats: 5% (no change)
    Greens: 4% (no change)
    Others: 2% (-1)
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited September 2015
    kle4 said:

    MonikerDiCanio said:

    Corbyn has a natural dignity which Cameron wholly lacks. Despite Eton and Oxford Dave lacks class.

    I don't see that either lacks dignity generally. Cameron can cut a cruel jibe on occasion, but then we have pmqs for moments of theatre like that and I presume he has natural dignity as one of the praises and c
    kle4 said:

    MonikerDiCanio said:

    Corbyn has a natural dignity which Cameron wholly lacks. Despite Eton and Oxford Dave lacks class.

    I don't see that either lacks dignity generally. Cameron can cut a cruel jibe on occasion, but then we have pmqs for moments of theatre like that and I presume he has natural dignity as one of the praises and criticisms of him is a natural 'looks and sounds like a pm' thing - criticism as some think that's all it is, with no substance behind it - and I'm sure a shouty or evasive Corbyn will appear less dignified than his soft spoken standard approach.
    Corbyn is an old school Don Quixote type gent, Cameron reeks of City money and social insecurity.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,230
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    kle4 said:

    MonikerDiCanio said:

    Corbyn has a natural dignity which Cameron wholly lacks. Despite Eton and Oxford Dave lacks class.

    I don't see that either lacks dignity generally. Cameron can cut a cruel jibe on occasion, but then we have pmqs for moments of theatre like that and I presume he has natural dignity as one of the praises and c
    kle4 said:

    MonikerDiCanio said:

    Corbyn has a natural dignity which Cameron wholly lacks. Despite Eton and Oxford Dave lacks class.

    I don't see that either lacks dignity generally. Cameron can cut a cruel jibe on occasion, but then we have pmqs for moments of theatre like that and I presume he has natural dignity as one of the praises and criticisms of him is a natural 'looks and sounds like a pm' thing - criticism as some think that's all it is, with no substance behind it - and I'm sure a shouty or evasive Corbyn will appear less dignified than his soft spoken standard approach.
    Corbyn is an old school Don Quixote type gent, Cameron reeks of City money and social insecurity.
    Eye of the beholder - I get more of geography teacher vs estate agent type of vibe from them to be honest.

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited September 2015
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    kle4 said:

    MonikerDiCanio said:

    Corbyn has a natural dignity which Cameron wholly lacks. Despite Eton and Oxford Dave lacks class.

    I don't see that either lacks dignity generally. Cameron can cut a cruel jibe on occasion, but then we have pmqs for moments of theatre like that and I presume he has natural dignity as one of the praises and c
    kle4 said:

    MonikerDiCanio said:

    Corbyn has a natural dignity which Cameron wholly lacks. Despite Eton and Oxford Dave lacks class.

    I don't see that either lacks dignity generally. Cameron can cut a cruel jibe on occasion, but then we have pmqs for moments of theatre like that and I presume he has natural dignity as one of the praises and criticisms of him is a natural 'looks and sounds like a pm' thing - criticism as some think that's all it is, with no substance behind it - and I'm sure a shouty or evasive Corbyn will appear less dignified than his soft spoken standard approach.
    Corbyn is an old school Don Quixote type gent, Cameron reeks of City money and social insecurity.
    Have you ever made a positive comment on PB about anything?
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    We will be discussing Camerons bald spot next...such is trivia..speaking of which..what is being discussed at the conference today..or not..
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,009
    Labour really should have elected Tristram Hunt as leader. He's a lot like me, a top historian with a wonderful turn of phrase.

    Tristram Hunt: "We might feel like a pig's head at the Piers Gaveston club [but] we must get the taste of defeat out of our mouths"
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Is it sensible for McDonnell to be criticising the BoE for failing to meet the inflation target by undershooting it so much? Does he really want inflation to be higher than it is now so that people get poorer faster?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    DT live http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11895570/labour-conference-day-two-live.html

    This is going to be a top popcorn day.
    Labour will unveil plans for the “redistribution of wealth” in the UK with a series of tax raids on the middle classes and a renewed attack on British business.

    John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, will address Labour’s conference in Brighton and set out an economic plan that will include an income tax hike, scrapping the Conservative inheritance tax reforms and increasing corporation tax.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    I have awarded myself the title Thread Killer, on many occasions no sooner do I enter the fray than NEW THREAD appears.

    Perhaps I should take the hint
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,009
    On topic, both Antifrank and I have both given Corbyn fashion advice in thread headers.

    If only he'd listen.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,800
    Laura Kuenssberg ‏@bbclaurak 5 mins5 minutes ago

    McDonnell promising review of everything to 'test and test and test' policies before Labour makes decisions

    IE the throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks method..

    Usually ends up with a dogs dinner.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    I think McDonnell will be like Ed Balls without the veneer of credibility - pugnacious Marxist.

    He's got hard-man written all over him. Interestingly, Sky's paper reviewer [a psychologist] doesn't believe what he says despite looking all nice uncle.
    JonathanD said:

    Is it sensible for McDonnell to be criticising the BoE for failing to meet the inflation target by undershooting it so much? Does he really want inflation to be higher than it is now so that people get poorer faster?

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,965
    RobD said:

    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    But nothing really summed up the days polls like 'EICIPM'. I think it'll be seen in a few of our headstones *ahem*
    Them Woz Days.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    OldKingCole said:

    First.

    At almost 7am?

    And the point about our “constitution” is that it isn’t written, and is therefore flexible.At one time, I suspect, it would have been de rigeur to wear a morning suit for, perchance, one’s first Privy Council attendance, and there was tut-tutting when someone .... Nye Bevan? .... didn’t. Similarly a requirement for attendance at a sporting occasion, even a very significant one, would have been surprising to our forebears; now non-attendance is a matter for comment.

    These things change and move on.

    Ramsay Macdonald wore a morning suit and gold braid when kissing hands with King George V, which didn't do his left wing street cred any good. I agree that boundaries can be pushed (if Jeremy Corbyn briskly said that he was quite sure the Queen wouldn't mind if he didn't bend his knee, the problem would go away). But Jeremy Corbyn isn't just pushing boundaries, he's acting as if none of them exist. He's making his own job harder.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    This is beyond parody.
    Mr McDonnell was found to have been urging militants to publicly confront Tory MPs and journalists who criticise Labour;
    Mr Corbyn called for pupils to be taught about the right to strike and other aspects of the nation’s ‘incredible socialist tradition’;

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3251373/Tax-war-middle-class-Return-politics-envy-Labour-s-team-call-new-economics-suggest-party-unashamedly-anti-austerity.html#ixzz3n18HUPTq
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    McDonnells speech promises to be good fun..lotsa popcorn needed ..
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    GeoffM said:

    Today is the anniversary of William the Conqueror's invasion in 1066. Just sayin'

    Illegal immigrant !
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    I saw McDonnell on SKY this morning, it looked as if he could lose his temper at any moment when interviewed by Eamonn Holmes. Top buttons aside, he and Corbyn are ill prepared for the grilling they're about to receive, for decades they've enjoyed the comfort zone of preaching to the gullible and converted.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SquareRoot said:

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    We are waiting for the definitive from Jack W..
    A formal announcement of the JackW approved Corbyn acronym is clearly awaited with barely concealed hysteria among the PB cognoscenti.

    Informed speculation from sources close to the heart of the Jacobite conclave appear to indicate the wait is almost over ....

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    richardDodd said:

    We will be discussing Camerons bald spot next...such is trivia..speaking of which..what is being discussed at the conference today..or not..

    Has Rooney not given him any advice ?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    He gives off I Know Where You Live vibes to me.
    blackburn63 said:

    I saw McDonnell on SKY this morning, it looked as if he could lose his temper at any moment when interviewed by Eamonn Holmes. Top buttons aside, he and Corbyn are ill prepared for the grilling they're about to receive, for decades they've enjoyed the comfort zone of preaching to the gullible and converted.

  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Succinct Mr Plato, he has a very threatening air about him. I can picture Andrew Neil rubbing his hands together and grinning.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Plato_Says said:

    He gives off I Know Where You Live vibes to me.

    blackburn63 said:

    I saw McDonnell on SKY this morning, it looked as if he could lose his temper at any moment when interviewed by Eamonn Holmes. Top buttons aside, he and Corbyn are ill prepared for the grilling they're about to receive, for decades they've enjoyed the comfort zone of preaching to the gullible and converted.

    Rest assured Plato, while you are good, you're not that good !
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Miss Plato, are you suggesting McD's offering may seem tasty, but is in fact bad for you? :p
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Good morning all. I shall be very interested to see what Mr McDonnell has to say.

    Corbyn is, as others have said, giving the appearance of being a prisoner of Labour's varied special interests. McDonnell is yer proper class warrior.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Surbiton,,Rooney taught him how to kick balls...as for the bald patch..I don't think Cameron GAF
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Labour really should have elected Tristram Hunt as leader. He's a lot like me, a top historian with a wonderful turn of phrase.

    Tristram Hunt: "We might feel like a pig's head at the Piers Gaveston club [but] we must get the taste of defeat out of our mouths"

    Yeh, thats why he's always looked like a wanker! Bent mouth, bent arguments.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    I found Brown's BJ4BW mildly amusing for the double meanings.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,386
    Mr Antifrank,

    I agree. Jezza should at least make an effort and wear his posh interview vest.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    foxinsoxuk said:

    OldKingCole said:

    First.

    At almost 7am?

    And the point about our “constitution” is that it isn’t written, and is therefore flexible.At one time, I suspect, it would have been de rigeur to wear a morning suit for, perchance, one’s first Privy Council attendance, and there was tut-tutting when someone .... Nye Bevan? .... didn’t. Similarly a requirement for attendance at a sporting occasion, even a very significant one, would have been surprising to our forebears; now non-attendance is a matter for comment.

    These things change and move on.

    Things do indeed move on. Much of the tradition of parliament is obscurantist to the voters. I am sure that only a tiny percentage could describe the function of the Privy Council.

    Nonetheless it seems foolish to accumulate further enemies when they are already numerous. More significant is going to be his political behaviour rather than his social behaviour. The sleight of hand to avoid debating Trident will not have gone down well with his supporters.
    A tiny percentage could even tell you about the existence of the Privy Council. It can pardon a death row prisoner in Barbados !
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2015
    I wonder if Corbyn will wear his special string vest for his speech...just to add that extra touch of class..
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :smiley:
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    I found Brown's BJ4BW mildly amusing for the double meanings.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Plato, are you suggesting McD's offering may seem tasty, but is in fact bad for you? :p

    No, what Plato is saying, is that McDonnell would send round the SS/KGB if he had half the chance.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Yet again. WALES !! WALES !! WALES !!
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Have just listened to another set of Polly smears and attacks on the Conservatives and the Mail/Telegraph. It went uninterupted and unchallenged on R4Today programme. It should have been just a discussion about the Labour Conference. Why do the BBC think it acceptable for an employee of one company to slag off their commercial rivals? Of course we just get used to the BBC's idea of political impartiality but surely attacks using BBC airtime on a commercial rival should be challenged and have opposing views?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,009
    surbiton said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    OldKingCole said:

    First.

    At almost 7am?

    And the point about our “constitution” is that it isn’t written, and is therefore flexible.At one time, I suspect, it would have been de rigeur to wear a morning suit for, perchance, one’s first Privy Council attendance, and there was tut-tutting when someone .... Nye Bevan? .... didn’t. Similarly a requirement for attendance at a sporting occasion, even a very significant one, would have been surprising to our forebears; now non-attendance is a matter for comment.

    These things change and move on.

    Things do indeed move on. Much of the tradition of parliament is obscurantist to the voters. I am sure that only a tiny percentage could describe the function of the Privy Council.

    Nonetheless it seems foolish to accumulate further enemies when they are already numerous. More significant is going to be his political behaviour rather than his social behaviour. The sleight of hand to avoid debating Trident will not have gone down well with his supporters.
    A tiny percentage could even tell you about the existence of the Privy Council. It can pardon a death row prisoner in Barbados !
    Not any more I think.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For watchers - McDonnell speech scheduled for 12:15 today.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Mr. K, I know, I was making a rare foray into a pop culture reference :p
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    MikeK said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Plato, are you suggesting McD's offering may seem tasty, but is in fact bad for you? :p

    No, what Plato is saying, is that McDonnell would send round the SS/KGB if he had half the chance.
    Half a chance? More like any slim chance.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    richardDodd said:

    I wonder if Corbyn will wear his special string vest for his speech...just to add that extra touch of class..

    A Rab C Nesbit special might help SLAB.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Have just listened to another set of Polly smears and attacks on the Conservatives and the Mail/Telegraph. It went uninterupted and unchallenged on R4Today programme. It should have been just a discussion about the Labour Conference. Why do the BBC think it acceptable for an employee of one company to slag off their commercial rivals? Of course we just get used to the BBC's idea of political impartiality but surely attacks using BBC airtime on a commercial rival should be challenged and have opposing views?

    Why do you thing that there is now a movement saying, "THE BBC MUST GO"?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    I wish we could use the popcorn emoticon. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11895570/labour-conference-day-two-live.html
    Karl Marx has "come back in to fashion", according to shadow chancellor John McDonnell.

    The author of Das Kapital was one of the "definitive analysts" of how the capitalist system works, although "people might disagree with his conclusions", Mr McDonnell said.

    The shadow chancellor, a controversial appointment by Jeremy Corbyn following his victory in the Labour leadership race, has previously claimed "you can't understand the capitalist system without reading Das Kapital".
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,529
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    I found Brown's BJ4BW mildly amusing for the double meanings.
    ...but expensive on the mind bleach.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. K, I know, I was making a rare foray into a pop culture reference :p

    I realise that, but this morning my funny bone just ain't working.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,735
    OldKingCole said:

    First.

    At almost 7am?

    And the point about our “constitution” is that it isn’t written, and is therefore flexible.At one time, I suspect, it would have been de rigeur to wear a morning suit for, perchance, one’s first Privy Council attendance, and there was tut-tutting when someone .... Nye Bevan? .... didn’t. Similarly a requirement for attendance at a sporting occasion, even a very significant one, would have been surprising to our forebears; now non-attendance is a matter for comment.

    These things change and move on.

    Yes - it's worth balancing the Bagehot points with a note that quite a lot of people feel that the formalities which Bagehot found reassuring seem to reinforce the Westminster bubble idea - politicians are all people in posh suits pursuing obscure rituals that in no way relate to normal life. A significant part of Corbyn's appeal, especially to younger people, is that he's clearly not like that. And the kind of traditional Labour voter who will rule someone out for such things is a dying breed.

    That shouldn't stray into obstinacy - in his position I'd be careful to do up my top button in future rather than take a silly "no top button" stand on principle. But it's important that we don't reserve politics for people who model themselves on Bagehot.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,009
    @roger_scully: We should have some interesting Leader ratings from our new Welsh Political Barometer poll along later... And I do mean interesting.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    JackW said:

    SquareRoot said:

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    We are waiting for the definitive from Jack W..
    A formal announcement of the JackW approved Corbyn acronym is clearly awaited with barely concealed hysteria among the PB cognoscenti.

    Informed speculation from sources close to the heart of the Jacobite conclave appear to indicate the wait is almost over ....

    Is it JCWAW?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    More sure fire vote winning policies this morning I see...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11894989/Labour-to-redistribute-wealth-with-middle-class-tax-raids.html
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,529
    McDonnell is currently like a dog with a biscuit balanced on its nose. It is not a pose he can hold for long....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    JackW said:

    SquareRoot said:

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    We are waiting for the definitive from Jack W..
    A formal announcement of the JackW approved Corbyn acronym is clearly awaited with barely concealed hysteria among the PB cognoscenti.

    Informed speculation from sources close to the heart of the Jacobite conclave appear to indicate the wait is almost over ....

    When will we see white smoke billowing from the Auchentennach Castle? :D
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    bigjohnowls said:

    RobD said:

    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    But nothing really summed up the days polls like 'EICIPM'. I think it'll be seen in a few of our headstones *ahem*
    Them Woz Days.
    Partly because we had tons o' polls. Which was great :D
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,009
    RobD said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    RobD said:

    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    But nothing really summed up the days polls like 'EICIPM'. I think it'll be seen in a few of our headstones *ahem*
    Them Woz Days.
    Partly because we had tons o' polls. Which was great :D
    We don't need no stinkin' polls.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RobD said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    RobD said:

    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    But nothing really summed up the days polls like 'EICIPM'. I think it'll be seen in a few of our headstones *ahem*
    Them Woz Days.
    Partly because we had tons o' polls. Which was great :D
    We don't need no stinkin' polls.
    Quite right. Polls that show the Tories on 50%+ are more than welcome, however!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,009
    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RobD said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    RobD said:

    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    But nothing really summed up the days polls like 'EICIPM'. I think it'll be seen in a few of our headstones *ahem*
    Them Woz Days.
    Partly because we had tons o' polls. Which was great :D
    We don't need no stinkin' polls.
    Quite right. Polls that show the Tories on 50%+ are more than welcome, however!
    No we don't need that either, as that might lead to Jezbollah being toppled.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    Corbyn has a natural dignity which Cameron wholly lacks. Despite Eton and Oxford Dave lacks class.

    You're mistaking slyness for dignity.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11895590/University-student-union-bans-free-Tex-Mex-sombreros-for-being-racist.html
    University student union bans free Tex-Mex sombreros for being 'racist'
    University of East Anglia student union officials orders Tex-Mex restaurant to stop handing out free sombreros to students
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,366
    Moses_ said:

    More sure fire vote winning policies this morning I see...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11894989/Labour-to-redistribute-wealth-with-middle-class-tax-raids.html

    Telegraph attacks (and probably misinterprets) Labour policies.

    Shock, Horror. Whodathunkit!
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    This is what McDonnell said in 2003

    It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA." He later said that the "deaths of innocent civilians in IRA attacks is a real tragedy, but it was as a result of British occupation in Ireland. Because of the bravery of the IRA and people like Bobby Sands we now have a peace process.

    In a little while we'll all be able to recite that verbatim we'll have heard it that often.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited September 2015
    However the welsh seem to be lapping Jezza up, but then they would.

    Politico Daily ‏@Politico_Daily 4m4 minutes ago
    YouGov/ITV (Wales Constituency) poll:

    Conservative 23
    Labour 39 +4
    Lib Dem 6 +1
    Plaid Cymru 18 -2
    UKIP 13 -1
    Green 2 -1
    1:24 AM - 28 Sep 2015 · Details
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    edited September 2015
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RobD said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    RobD said:

    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    But nothing really summed up the days polls like 'EICIPM'. I think it'll be seen in a few of our headstones *ahem*
    Them Woz Days.
    Partly because we had tons o' polls. Which was great :D
    We don't need no stinkin' polls.
    Quite right. Polls that show the Tories on 50%+ are more than welcome, however!
    No we don't need that either, as that might lead to Jezbollah being toppled.
    Damn, you're right. Harumph!
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Cannot believe I am saying this..Labour desperately needs Balls..
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    JackW said:

    SquareRoot said:

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    We are waiting for the definitive from Jack W..
    A formal announcement of the JackW approved Corbyn acronym is clearly awaited with barely concealed hysteria among the PB cognoscenti.

    Informed speculation from sources close to the heart of the Jacobite conclave appear to indicate the wait is almost over ....

    Is it JCWAW?
    No.

    I feel JCWAW - "Jezza Corbyn What A Wally" fails to convey the appropriate dignity, gravitas and status that the JackW acronym now deservedly merits.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited September 2015
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    SquareRoot said:

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    We are waiting for the definitive from Jack W..
    A formal announcement of the JackW approved Corbyn acronym is clearly awaited with barely concealed hysteria among the PB cognoscenti.

    Informed speculation from sources close to the heart of the Jacobite conclave appear to indicate the wait is almost over ....

    When will we see white smoke billowing from the Auchentennach Castle? :D
    When the dungeons are emptied.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,009
    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RobD said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    RobD said:

    Plato_Says said:

    X is crap is Y is the worst shorthand we've ever had on here. It isn't even grammatically correct.

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    But nothing really summed up the days polls like 'EICIPM'. I think it'll be seen in a few of our headstones *ahem*
    Them Woz Days.
    Partly because we had tons o' polls. Which was great :D
    We don't need no stinkin' polls.
    Quite right. Polls that show the Tories on 50%+ are more than welcome, however!
    No we don't need that either, as that might lead to Jezbollah being toppled.
    Damn, you're right. Harumph!
    I'll be doing a string of pro Jez threads and threads on the lines of Labour would be mad to dump Jez.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited September 2015
    Duplicate post.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,009
    JackW said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    JackW said:

    SquareRoot said:

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    We are waiting for the definitive from Jack W..
    A formal announcement of the JackW approved Corbyn acronym is clearly awaited with barely concealed hysteria among the PB cognoscenti.

    Informed speculation from sources close to the heart of the Jacobite conclave appear to indicate the wait is almost over ....

    Is it JCWAW?
    No.

    I feel JCWAW - "Jezza Corbyn What A Wally" fails to convey the appropriate dignity, gravitas and status that the JackW acronym now deservedly merits.

    Corbyn will be as successful as the Jacobite uprisings you mean?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Plato_Says said:

    He gives off I Know Where You Live vibes to me.

    blackburn63 said:

    I saw McDonnell on SKY this morning, it looked as if he could lose his temper at any moment when interviewed by Eamonn Holmes. Top buttons aside, he and Corbyn are ill prepared for the grilling they're about to receive, for decades they've enjoyed the comfort zone of preaching to the gullible and converted.

    Both of them have the capability to go nuclear. The Sword of truth will get them in the end.. Noone will believe them when they continually try to cover up or misrepresent what they previously said and did.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    JackW said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    JackW said:

    SquareRoot said:

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    We are waiting for the definitive from Jack W..
    A formal announcement of the JackW approved Corbyn acronym is clearly awaited with barely concealed hysteria among the PB cognoscenti.

    Informed speculation from sources close to the heart of the Jacobite conclave appear to indicate the wait is almost over ....

    Is it JCWAW?
    No.

    I feel JCWAW - "Jezza Corbyn What A Wally" fails to convey the appropriate dignity, gravitas and status that the JackW acronym now deservedly merits.

    Corbyn will be as successful as the Jacobite uprisings you mean?
    You're forgetting, the primary purpose of the Jacobite uprisings, so crushingly defeated, was to prepare JackW's mind for what it would be like to say EMWNBPM in spite of all the polling evidence to the contrary. They are used to playing the long game, those Jacobites.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    JackW said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    JackW said:

    SquareRoot said:

    RobD said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Is this the new politics way of saying JCIC?

    JCICIPC? (Jezza is crap is Privy Counsellor?)
    We are waiting for the definitive from Jack W..
    A formal announcement of the JackW approved Corbyn acronym is clearly awaited with barely concealed hysteria among the PB cognoscenti.

    Informed speculation from sources close to the heart of the Jacobite conclave appear to indicate the wait is almost over ....

    Is it JCWAW?
    No.

    I feel JCWAW - "Jezza Corbyn What A Wally" fails to convey the appropriate dignity, gravitas and status that the JackW acronym now deservedly merits.

    Corbyn will be as successful as the Jacobite uprisings you mean?
    Further like minded references will result in you receiving a GDR related Dianne Abbott visit. :smile:

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    How about teaching them about the evils of Communism and Marxism?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11895043/Children-should-be-taught-about-suffering-under-the-British-Empire-Jeremy-Corbyn-says.html
    Every child should be taught about the negative impact and suffering caused by the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn has suggested.

    Mr Corbyn told young Labour supporters that the national curriculum should be re-written to teach children about how the Empire expanded "at the expense of people".

    He also suggested that the curriculum should be changed so that every child should be taught about the importance of the trade unions, his biggest backers.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,800
    Plato_Says said:

    How about teaching them about the evils of Communism and Marxism?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11895043/Children-should-be-taught-about-suffering-under-the-British-Empire-Jeremy-Corbyn-says.html

    Every child should be taught about the negative impact and suffering caused by the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn has suggested.

    Mr Corbyn told young Labour supporters that the national curriculum should be re-written to teach children about how the Empire expanded "at the expense of people".

    He also suggested that the curriculum should be changed so that every child should be taught about the importance of the trade unions, his biggest backers.
    Get the brainwashing in young...
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