Skip to content

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Hillary looks set to struggle in New Hampshire but Sanders

SystemSystem Posts: 12,686
edited September 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Hillary looks set to struggle in New Hampshire but Sanders unlikely to be much of a threat elsewhere

Hillary Clinton continues to dominate the betting for the Democratic nomination for next year’s White House Race. She has slipped a bit but she is still a very tight odds on favourite.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Its good for Clinton that Sanders is seen as the main competitor. Biden and O'Malley have far more potential to put together a winning voter coalition.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,032
    fpt

    So what's wrong with the religious and racial hatred act? It doesn't seem so bad in principle but perhaps others know more about the law than I do.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    Sanders is the Corbyn candidate. He is the "I really shouldn't be winning ANYWHERE if the voters had any belief in the alternatives on offer..." candidate.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,985
    I think Biden will run.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,985
    On Biden:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/25/us-usa-election-biden-exclusive-idUSKCN0RP24Q20150925
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,032
    If Sanders really starts to threaten Hillary, won't some of the big money start looking to Biden? Perhaps he should just bide (sorry) his time.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    MyBurningEars said:

    Could someone explain to me why Biden is believed to be taking so long to make up his mind? He's going to face the political equivalent of a cricketer being "timed out" if he doesn't get a move on.

    Here's one theory: Basically that he isn't particularly planning on running, but he's keeping his options open in case Hillary blows up.

    https://trove.com/a/What-Is-Taking-Joe-Biden-So-Long.doajs?utm_campaign=hosted&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=sns&nocrawl=1
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Out of curiosity - we haven't had a single thread about the Kipper or LD conferences - yet had a fair few on a distant US race. I wonder why that is?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    FrankBooth said:

    fpt

    So what's wrong with the religious and racial hatred act? It doesn't seem so bad in principle but perhaps others know more about the law than I do.

    Because "hate" is a very nebulous concept. Almost any robust political or religious argument can be said to incite hate by those who are deeply offended by it (eg Aneurin Bevan's comments about " lower than vermin").

    Specifically, I do think it has a chilling effect on free speech. It would likely be unlawful to reproduce the Jylands Post cartoons in this country, for example. University Secular societies frequently have their activities restricted to avoid giving offence to those who are annoyed by them. Christian preachers have been prosecuted for saying harsh things about Islam.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,985
    Plato_Says said:

    Out of curiosity - we haven't had a single thread about the Kipper or LD conferences - yet had a fair few on a distant US race. I wonder why that is?

    Well I guess partly because there's some serious betting to be had with the US primary races.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,985
    MyBurningEars said:

    Could someone explain to me why Biden is believed to be taking so long to make up his mind? He's going to face the political equivalent of a cricketer being "timed out" if he doesn't get a move on.

    I think he's always said he'd make his mind up late summer. So its got to be soon, not least because there's a big Democratic debate coming up in October.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Plato_Says said:

    Out of curiosity - we haven't had a single thread about the Kipper or LD conferences - yet had a fair few on a distant US race. I wonder why that is?

    Wrong. We had a thread on Farron's speech on Wednesday.

    In any case the US election is by far the biggest political betting event that there is. That the UK media is not really interested at the moment is irrelevant.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Is one planned on UKIP's in that case? They're still out polling LDs regularly.
    MikeSmithson said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Out of curiosity - we haven't had a single thread about the Kipper or LD conferences - yet had a fair few on a distant US race. I wonder why that is?

    Wrong. We had a thread on Farron's speech on Wednesday.

    In any case the US election is by far the biggest political betting event that there is. That the UK media is not really interested at the moment is irrelevant.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    edited September 2015
    Any thoughts on Ted Cruz?

    Is this right/really a boost/can he win?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34355043
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited September 2015
    Kippers conference, few are listening, usual rant from Farage, donor slagging off Carswell etc etc.. They hate each other more than they hate immigrants.

    LD's Conference NO one was listening.

    Green Conference.. NO one was listening

    The Labour Conference is the one, lots of popcorn on order.

    The Tory conference will be one of self congratulation URrghh

    The main Tory dinner is bound to have wild boar pate on the menu.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Big Mosque fire in London...
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    FPT.
    Well you learn something new every day

    Quite so. :smile:


    I do believe that our JackW is taking the piss, @HYUFD:

    This 'Venice' of London began to garner more influence after the second world war, and it soon became known as 'Little' Venice. This apparently was a result of a council decision to save Beauchamp Lodge, and it recalled Byron's labelling of the area as 'Venice.' Not until the 1950's was the area was officially recognised as Little Venice and thus gained wide acceptance. This letter to the Telegraph (opens new window) by Lord Kinross published in 1966 makes it absolutely clear that Browning never called the locale Little Venice, and Kinross shows his annoyance at the constantly perpetuated myth. It is clearly time that BW and the tourist agencies stopped these gross distortions of history.

    http://www.londoncanals.co.uk/lvenice/lv00.html
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    MikeSmithson said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Out of curiosity - we haven't had a single thread about the Kipper or LD conferences - yet had a fair few on a distant US race. I wonder why that is?

    Wrong. We had a thread on Farron's speech on Wednesday.

    In any case the US election is by far the biggest political betting event that there is. That the UK media is not really interested at the moment is irrelevant.

    And the fact that you are a L/Dem'er is irrelevant too, Mike?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For those interested in diesel engines - BBC4 The Engine That Powers http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06csy8c/timeshift-series-15-3-the-engine-that-powers-the-world
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Stern reporting Merkel's popularity is just starting to wain - down 3pts last week http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4567938.ece
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    Twitter spat earlier between Louise Mensch and Iain Dale about "unsubstantiated claims" in Ashcroft's book. Some very ungentlemanly language from Mr Dale. Perhaps Mrs Balls needs to have word, given her campaign re abuse of women on social media.

    Is Mr Dale feeling the heat, I wonder?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,419
    LadyBucket said:

    Twitter spat earlier between Louise Mensch and Iain Dale about "unsubstantiated claims" in Ashcroft's book. Some very ungentlemanly language from Mr Dale. Perhaps Mrs Balls needs to have word, given her campaign re abuse of women on social media.

    Is Mr Dale feeling the heat, I wonder?

    Yes, Dale's reputation, such as it was, is now in tatters. It was foolish of him to lend his imprint to what was effectively a glorified and elongated smear sheet. But this is the guy who once demanded that the late, great Keith Waterhouse be sacked from his column at The Mail for having the temerity to criticize 'blogging', so I have no sympathy.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Zac Goldsmith
    Honoured to have the backing of 7/9 of London's leaders of Tory councils; http://t.co/MQ8QLIbsRn http://t.co/cyy3pX2f97
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    LadyBucket said:

    Twitter spat earlier between Louise Mensch and Iain Dale about "unsubstantiated claims" in Ashcroft's book. Some very ungentlemanly language from Mr Dale. Perhaps Mrs Balls needs to have word, given her campaign re abuse of women on social media.

    Is Mr Dale feeling the heat, I wonder?

    Abuse of women? Is that targeted against Mrs Mensch or Mrs Dale?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Is it really the case this time that a late entrant will be at a disadvantage? I can see that there would be organisational difficulties but in an election round when the public seem to be searching for a credible new face, might it not be best to offer yourself as a credible new face quite late in the process, capitalising on excitement for your candidacy and before the gilt can come off the gingerbread?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Rob Marchant
    Sign O' The Times: Top News on the #lab15 timeline is a piece from the Morning Star.

    #howdiditevercometothis
  • isamisam Posts: 42,636
    Quite pleased that Peter Whittle will be the UKIP Mayoral candidate. Nothing at all against Suzanne Evans, but I think this is a good move

    For one, it means another Kipper gets some attention, Suzanne is already an established media performer, and also it seems more authentic to have a Londoner who stood in a London seat as the candidate

    Lets be fair we could have Mother Theresa as our candidate and we wouldn't win, so whoever would do best isn't really a factor
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    richardDodd said:

    Big Mosque fire in London...

    Hopefully the public is being kept well back in case there are explosives hidden inside.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    Quite pleased that Peter Whittle will be the UKIP Mayoral candidate. Nothing at all against Suzanne Evans, but I think this is a good move

    For one, it means another Kipper gets some attention, Suzanne is already an established media performer, and also it seems more authentic to have a Londoner who stood in a London seat as the candidate

    Lets be fair we could have Mother Theresa as our candidate and we wouldn't win, so whoever would do best isn't really a factor

    Since Mother Teresa was an Albanian immigrant, she doesn't sound like the most natural fit for UKIP.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Saw a few mins of his speech, came across as moderate and sensible.
    isam said:

    Quite pleased that Peter Whittle will be the UKIP Mayoral candidate. Nothing at all against Suzanne Evans, but I think this is a good move

    For one, it means another Kipper gets some attention, Suzanne is already an established media performer, and also it seems more authentic to have a Londoner who stood in a London seat as the candidate

    Lets be fair we could have Mother Theresa as our candidate and we wouldn't win, so whoever would do best isn't really a factor

  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    I'm going to have to put some money on the US presidential race some time soon to generate some level of interest.

    Otherwise I'll just have to root for Sanders v Trump as that prospect is about the only thing I can think of that would make Congressional Democrats and Republicans work together...
  • isamisam Posts: 42,636
    antifrank said:

    isam said:

    Quite pleased that Peter Whittle will be the UKIP Mayoral candidate. Nothing at all against Suzanne Evans, but I think this is a good move

    For one, it means another Kipper gets some attention, Suzanne is already an established media performer, and also it seems more authentic to have a Londoner who stood in a London seat as the candidate

    Lets be fair we could have Mother Theresa as our candidate and we wouldn't win, so whoever would do best isn't really a factor

    Since Mother Teresa was an Albanian immigrant, she doesn't sound like the most natural fit for UKIP.
    Well exactly!

    If only there had been betting on such a non descript unimportant heat!
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    GeoffM said:

    LadyBucket said:

    Twitter spat earlier between Louise Mensch and Iain Dale about "unsubstantiated claims" in Ashcroft's book. Some very ungentlemanly language from Mr Dale. Perhaps Mrs Balls needs to have word, given her campaign re abuse of women on social media.

    Is Mr Dale feeling the heat, I wonder?

    Abuse of women? Is that targeted against Mrs Mensch or Mrs Dale?
    Oh how we laughed.
    Mr Dale may well be feeling some deserved heat; his decent into mediahood has inevitably coincided with his rise onto pillockhood.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,636
    Plato_Says said:

    Saw a few mins of his speech, came across as moderate and sensible.

    isam said:

    Quite pleased that Peter Whittle will be the UKIP Mayoral candidate. Nothing at all against Suzanne Evans, but I think this is a good move

    For one, it means another Kipper gets some attention, Suzanne is already an established media performer, and also it seems more authentic to have a Londoner who stood in a London seat as the candidate

    Lets be fair we could have Mother Theresa as our candidate and we wouldn't win, so whoever would do best isn't really a factor

    He has written a few good articles in Standpoint, nice guy
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    flightpath01 said:

    GeoffM said:

    LadyBucket said:

    Twitter spat earlier between Louise Mensch and Iain Dale about "unsubstantiated claims" in Ashcroft's book. Some very ungentlemanly language from Mr Dale. Perhaps Mrs Balls needs to have word, given her campaign re abuse of women on social media.

    Is Mr Dale feeling the heat, I wonder?

    Abuse of women? Is that targeted against Mrs Mensch or Mrs Dale?
    Oh how we laughed.
    Mr Dale may well be feeling some deserved heat; his decent into mediahood has inevitably coincided with his rise onto pillockhood.
    I'm not sure it's been as much a 'rise' into pillockhood as a public unveiling of a long existing affliction.

    I met him a few years ago at a do in Fuengirola. The conversation began amiably enough but he became incredibly agitated and stalked off after we disagreed strongly about the relative merits of, bizarrely, Ann Widdicombe. It was surreal.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    There is surely space for an AN Other candidate in the Democratic field. If Sanders is the answer, then it's the wrong question. Biden not quite so much but really, is that the best they can do?

    There is an enormous opportunity for some young governor or senator to take this race by the scruff of its neck and run away with it. Hillary's establishment backing didn't matter in the end in 2008 and can be overcome this time too. Any strong showing in Iowa - not a particularly expensive state - will propel the candidate way up the field and up the fundraising ladder. The issue is more organisation: it takes time to prepare and have the activists and campaign in place. Any later than October is really pushing it.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    SquareRoot said:


    ...
    The Tory conference will be one of self congratulation URrghh
    ...

    Deservedly so. Probably why Lord 'sick as a pig' Ashcroft chose to publish when he did.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,831
    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    isam said:

    Quite pleased that Peter Whittle will be the UKIP Mayoral candidate. Nothing at all against Suzanne Evans, but I think this is a good move

    For one, it means another Kipper gets some attention, Suzanne is already an established media performer, and also it seems more authentic to have a Londoner who stood in a London seat as the candidate

    Lets be fair we could have Mother Theresa as our candidate and we wouldn't win, so whoever would do best isn't really a factor

    That sounds like quite desperate straw clutching.

    Another example of the dysfunctional, amateur and backstabbing nature of UKIP and it's leaving you "quite pleased".

    I guess you can at least hope he is better than David Coburn and doesn't leave UKIP as toxic in London as they now are in Scotland.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Plato_Says said:

    Stern reporting Merkel's popularity is just starting to wain - down 3pts last week http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4567938.ece

    There is only one way for Merkel from here, the acceleration will be wondrous.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SpecCoffeeHouse: Revealed: Arron Banks told campaigners ‘I have Nigel by the short and curlies financially’ http://t.co/lQUAKQqVIa by @sebastianepayne
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    GeoffM said:

    flightpath01 said:

    GeoffM said:

    LadyBucket said:

    Twitter spat earlier between Louise Mensch and Iain Dale about "unsubstantiated claims" in Ashcroft's book. Some very ungentlemanly language from Mr Dale. Perhaps Mrs Balls needs to have word, given her campaign re abuse of women on social media.

    Is Mr Dale feeling the heat, I wonder?

    Abuse of women? Is that targeted against Mrs Mensch or Mrs Dale?
    Oh how we laughed.
    Mr Dale may well be feeling some deserved heat; his decent into mediahood has inevitably coincided with his rise onto pillockhood.
    I'm not sure it's been as much a 'rise' into pillockhood as a public unveiling of a long existing affliction.

    I met him a few years ago at a do in Fuengirola. The conversation began amiably enough but he became incredibly agitated and stalked off after we disagreed strongly about the relative merits of, bizarrely, Ann Widdicombe. It was surreal.
    I have until recently always thought he was a not a bad observer of politics. His weakness has always been that he was too generous with his political opponents, far too sympathetic with people who would happily do him down for his politics.
    But I think the radio and media business, which he may be good at, is more important to him now and colours his actions. I think it demeans him to publish this blatant tittle tattle which incudes trying to smear peoples wives for the fun of it.
    Personally I do not have too bad an opinion of Widdicombe, allowing for the fact that everyone has flaws.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    GeoffM said:

    flightpath01 said:

    GeoffM said:

    LadyBucket said:

    Twitter spat earlier between Louise Mensch and Iain Dale about "unsubstantiated claims" in Ashcroft's book. Some very ungentlemanly language from Mr Dale. Perhaps Mrs Balls needs to have word, given her campaign re abuse of women on social media.

    Is Mr Dale feeling the heat, I wonder?

    Abuse of women? Is that targeted against Mrs Mensch or Mrs Dale?
    Oh how we laughed.
    Mr Dale may well be feeling some deserved heat; his decent into mediahood has inevitably coincided with his rise onto pillockhood.
    I'm not sure it's been as much a 'rise' into pillockhood as a public unveiling of a long existing affliction.

    I met him a few years ago at a do in Fuengirola. The conversation began amiably enough but he became incredibly agitated and stalked off after we disagreed strongly about the relative merits of, bizarrely, Ann Widdicombe. It was surreal.
    I trust it had nothing to do with sensuality but if it was, I hope you were on the right side!
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    The_Apocalypse said:

    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.

    You must feel distraught for Labourites: all of their candidates were dire
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,584
    Plato_Says said:

    Zac Goldsmith
    Honoured to have the backing of 7/9

    That is surprising. I didn't think the Borg took that much interest in London Mayoral elections.

    :-)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2015
    MyBurningEars said:

    *snip* jolly interesting stuff on Ahmadis *snip*

    Fascinating. I'd sort-of heard of the Ahmadis, but knew SFA about them. PB is great, sometimes.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    MyBurningEars said:

    richardDodd said:

    Big Mosque fire in London...

    Careful, it's the Ahmadiyya, roughly speaking Islam's equivalent to the Mormons. They add in an extra 19th-century prophet, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), so most Muslims do not regard Ahmadis as Muslim at all. In Pakistan, the constitution was actually amended to affirm this, and it's a criminal offence for an Ahmadi to claim to be Muslim. This despite Pakistan's best renowned scientist - a national hero for winning the Nobel Prize for Physics - being a devout Ahmadi. This kind of state discrimination, as well as ongoing violent persecution, is what has brought so many Ahmadis to London in the first place: they are massively disproportionate among British Muslims compared to their relative small numbers in Pakistan.

    Most British Muslims would deny that the affected building is a "mosque" at all.

    Perhaps they will get an apology from the knee jerk brigade.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    MyBurningEars said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.

    Who were the last few presidential candidates (don't mean party nominee necessarily, anyone running in the primaries) who you would have identified as "strong", regardless of whether you agreed with their policies?
    Joe Lieberman 2004, John McCain 2000, Bill Clinton 1992, Ronald Reagan 1980
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393
    MyBurningEars said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.

    Who were the last few presidential candidates (don't mean party nominee necessarily, anyone running in the primaries) who you would have identified as "strong", regardless of whether you agreed with their policies?
    Obama was a truly brilliant candidate, one of the best ever. As President more of a meh, but a great candidate.

    The last really able US President was Clinton, especially when he focussed on the job after being somewhat distracted by his jollies. He took governance seriously. Hilary does too but seems to completely lack her husband's easy charm.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    edited September 2015
    I agree OGH, Sanders will do well in the north east and the West Coast, but Hillary should sweep the South and MidWest in sufficient strength to be nominee. If it is Clinton v Trump, as the polls still suggest, she would then be in the better position for the general election as this new poll makes clear. Against any other nominee though she would struggle

    Elon University North Carolina general election

    Clinton 47% Trump 40%

    Bush 46% Clinton 43%

    Carson 52% Clinton 41%

    http://www.elon.edu/docs/e-web/elonpoll/092415_ElonPollExecSumm.pdf
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    ReggieCide said:

    GeoffM said:

    flightpath01 said:

    GeoffM said:

    LadyBucket said:

    Twitter spat earlier between Louise Mensch and Iain Dale about "unsubstantiated claims" in Ashcroft's book. Some very ungentlemanly language from Mr Dale. Perhaps Mrs Balls needs to have word, given her campaign re abuse of women on social media.

    Is Mr Dale feeling the heat, I wonder?

    Abuse of women? Is that targeted against Mrs Mensch or Mrs Dale?
    Oh how we laughed.
    Mr Dale may well be feeling some deserved heat; his decent into mediahood has inevitably coincided with his rise onto pillockhood.
    I'm not sure it's been as much a 'rise' into pillockhood as a public unveiling of a long existing affliction.

    I met him a few years ago at a do in Fuengirola. The conversation began amiably enough but he became incredibly agitated and stalked off after we disagreed strongly about the relative merits of, bizarrely, Ann Widdicombe. It was surreal.
    I trust it had nothing to do with sensuality but if it was, I hope you were on the right side!
    LOL! At that time Mrs Dale was on a stage tour with Widdicombe in some sort of stand-up double act so he was an undiluted fan. I actively disliked her politics and especially her stance on hunting.

    Iain asked me if I'd thought of coming to see them on tour when I was next in the UK. My answer was a very polite No but he took it incredibly personally.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393
    MyBurningEars said:

    GeoffM said:


    Hopefully the public is being kept well back in case there are explosives hidden inside.

    Fat chance of that, unless the mosque has been bombed by an extremist group (not unknown in Pakistan). The Ahmadis are probably the most liberal, tolerant and modern Muslim denomination in Britain, though their unusual theology places them outside the Islamic mainstream. The group is fiercely opposed to violence, has no record of supporting militancy even in the face of really quite brutal persecution, and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad argued that this far after the age of Mohammed, "jihad" must be interpreted as a form of non-violent struggle and could not be used to justify bloodshed. They are also relatively liberal on social issues, for instance female Ahmadi teens have to attend workshops where they are encouraged to pursue university education and an independent professional career.

    Ironically one of the reasons they attract so much vituperation from other Muslim groups in the UK is that their level of integration and westernisation has rendered them "sell-outs", and that they are working against Pakistani and other Muslim interests. Even in Britain they are often abused by other Muslims as "Qadianis" (literally, inhabitants of the Indian town where Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was born, but seen as a derogatory slur) or even "Kafir" (non-believer). In Tooting, Sunni Muslim religious groups have been campaigning for other British-Pakistanis to boycott Ahmadi-owned shops and services. Pakistani internet forums often contain gossip about political, business and military leaders who are "secretly Qadianis", and are acting in concert with the USA and Israel.
    Really interesting stuff (and a tad more credible than JackW's story about root canals). Many thanks.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    Japanese Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology has issued a non-binding order to all universities to end education in social sciences and economics, the humanities and law. Dozens of public universities are following although two have refused to comply
    http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-20/japan-dumbs-down-its-universities-at-the-wrong-time
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Corbyn arriving at Brighton says "Party United for a decent society"

    Oh wait a minute.......

    Harriet Harman blasts Labour over the"clean sweep of men" at the top of the party and tells Jeremy Corbyn to "sort it out".

    Oh dear..... And the conference hasn't even started yet.

    Sky news
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    edited September 2015
    david_herdson said:

    There is surely space for an AN Other candidate in the Democratic field. If Sanders is the answer, then it's the wrong question. Biden not quite so much but really, is that the best they can do?

    There is an enormous opportunity for some young governor or senator to take this race by the scruff of its neck and run away with it. Hillary's establishment backing didn't matter in the end in 2008 and can be overcome this time too. Any strong showing in Iowa - not a particularly expensive state - will propel the candidate way up the field and up the fundraising ladder. The issue is more organisation: it takes time to prepare and have the activists and campaign in place. Any later than October is really pushing it.

    After 8 years in power in the US the incumbent party almost always picks the Vice President or an older, experienced Senator (or former Senator in Hillary's case). Young governors and senators are normally only picked by parties which have been out of the White House for 8 years
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    MyBurningEars said:

    richardDodd said:

    Big Mosque fire in London...

    Careful, it's the Ahmadiyya, roughly speaking Islam's equivalent to the Mormons. They add in an extra 19th-century prophet, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), so most Muslims do not regard Ahmadis as Muslim at all. In Pakistan, the constitution was actually amended to affirm this, and it's a criminal offence for an Ahmadi to claim to be Muslim. This despite Pakistan's best renowned scientist - a national hero for winning the Nobel Prize for Physics - being a devout Ahmadi. This kind of state discrimination, as well as ongoing violent persecution, is what has brought so many Ahmadis to London in the first place: they are massively disproportionate among British Muslims compared to their relative small numbers in Pakistan.

    Most British Muslims would deny that the affected building is a "mosque" at all.

    That's very interesting. Your outsider characterisation of them has not made it as far as the Telegraph, though, who use the word mosque a dozen times in their report or the London Fire Brigade twitter feed who similarly don't bother with such nuances.

    In fact the way you choose to define them hasn't made it to the website of their mosque itself, which describes itself as the "the largest mosque in western europe" http://www.baitulfutuh.org/
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    FrankBooth said:

    fpt

    So what's wrong with the religious and racial hatred act? It doesn't seem so bad in principle but perhaps others know more about the law than I do.

    I do find it curious, those who would have in the past railed against 'Blasphemy law', have essentially created an inversion of the original law. It only covered the established church. Now we have the incitement to religious hatred which in practice covers all and every religion except the established church.

    Who would have thought it was the left, in their desire to not only stuff the mouths of their muslim supporters with welfare payments, brought in this law as payback for their (multiple) vote?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    Samoa giving the Saffers a game....
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Anorak said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    *snip* jolly interesting stuff on Ahmadis *snip*

    Fascinating. I'd sort-of heard of the Ahmadis, but knew SFA about them. PB is great, sometimes.
    Absolutely
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    david_herdson said:

    There is surely space for an AN Other candidate in the Democratic field. If Sanders is the answer, then it's the wrong question. Biden not quite so much but really, is that the best they can do?

    There is an enormous opportunity for some young governor or senator to take this race by the scruff of its neck and run away with it. Hillary's establishment backing didn't matter in the end in 2008 and can be overcome this time too. Any strong showing in Iowa - not a particularly expensive state - will propel the candidate way up the field and up the fundraising ladder. The issue is more organisation: it takes time to prepare and have the activists and campaign in place. Any later than October is really pushing it.

    Michelle Obama.

    It's not completely inconceivable...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,389
    HYUFD said:

    david_herdson said:

    There is surely space for an AN Other candidate in the Democratic field. If Sanders is the answer, then it's the wrong question. Biden not quite so much but really, is that the best they can do?

    There is an enormous opportunity for some young governor or senator to take this race by the scruff of its neck and run away with it. Hillary's establishment backing didn't matter in the end in 2008 and can be overcome this time too. Any strong showing in Iowa - not a particularly expensive state - will propel the candidate way up the field and up the fundraising ladder. The issue is more organisation: it takes time to prepare and have the activists and campaign in place. Any later than October is really pushing it.

    After 8 years in power in the US the incumbent party almost always picks the Vice President or an older, experienced Senator (or former Senator in Hillary's case). Young governors and senators are normally only picked by parties which have been out of the White House for 8 years
    Except in The West Wing!
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Pong said:

    david_herdson said:

    There is surely space for an AN Other candidate in the Democratic field. If Sanders is the answer, then it's the wrong question. Biden not quite so much but really, is that the best they can do?

    There is an enormous opportunity for some young governor or senator to take this race by the scruff of its neck and run away with it. Hillary's establishment backing didn't matter in the end in 2008 and can be overcome this time too. Any strong showing in Iowa - not a particularly expensive state - will propel the candidate way up the field and up the fundraising ladder. The issue is more organisation: it takes time to prepare and have the activists and campaign in place. Any later than October is really pushing it.

    Michelle Obama.

    It's not completely inconceivable...
    If anyone is seriously offering odds on that then it's a lay.
    It's about as unlikely as things get.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    MyBurningEars said:

    DavidL said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    GeoffM said:


    Hopefully the public is being kept well back in case there are explosives hidden inside.

    Fat chance of that, unless the mosque has been bombed by an extremist group (not unknown in Pakistan). The Ahmadis are probably the most liberal, tolerant and modern Muslim denomination in Britain, though their unusual theology places them outside the Islamic mainstream. The group is fiercely opposed to violence, has no record of supporting militancy even in the face of really quite brutal persecution, and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad argued that this far after the age of Mohammed, "jihad" must be interpreted as a form of non-violent struggle and could not be used to justify bloodshed. They are also relatively liberal on social issues, for instance female Ahmadi teens have to attend workshops where they are encouraged to pursue university education and an independent professional career.

    Ironically one of the reasons they attract so much vituperation from other Muslim groups in the UK is that their level of integration and westernisation has rendered them "sell-outs", and that they are working against Pakistani and other Muslim interests. Even in Britain they are often abused by other Muslims as "Qadianis" (literally, inhabitants of the Indian town where Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was born, but seen as a derogatory slur) or even "Kafir" (non-believer). In Tooting, Sunni Muslim religious groups have been campaigning for other British-Pakistanis to boycott Ahmadi-owned shops and services. Pakistani internet forums often contain gossip about political, business and military leaders who are "secretly Qadianis", and are acting in concert with the USA and Israel.
    Really interesting stuff (and a tad more credible than JackW's story about root canals). Many thanks.
    And what I know barely scratches the surface of the complexity.
    That is what I continually found about south Asia - the more I learnt, I realised I understood less than I thought I did about the place.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,584
    GeoffM said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    richardDodd said:

    Big Mosque fire in London...

    Careful, it's the Ahmadiyya, roughly speaking Islam's equivalent to the Mormons. They add in an extra 19th-century prophet, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), so most Muslims do not regard Ahmadis as Muslim at all. In Pakistan, the constitution was actually amended to affirm this, and it's a criminal offence for an Ahmadi to claim to be Muslim. This despite Pakistan's best renowned scientist - a national hero for winning the Nobel Prize for Physics - being a devout Ahmadi. This kind of state discrimination, as well as ongoing violent persecution, is what has brought so many Ahmadis to London in the first place: they are massively disproportionate among British Muslims compared to their relative small numbers in Pakistan.

    Most British Muslims would deny that the affected building is a "mosque" at all.

    That's very interesting. Your outsider characterisation of them has not made it as far as the Telegraph, though, who use the word mosque a dozen times in their report or the London Fire Brigade twitter feed who similarly don't bother with such nuances.

    In fact the way you choose to define them hasn't made it to the website of their mosque itself, which describes itself as the "the largest mosque in western europe" http://www.baitulfutuh.org/
    Um. Its not the way MBE 'chooses' to define them. It is the way they are defined both by themselves and the rest of the muslim world. Are you that utterly anti-islamic that you cannot conceive that there might be factions who have genuine peaceful intent?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    MikeSmithson said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Out of curiosity - we haven't had a single thread about the Kipper or LD conferences - yet had a fair few on a distant US race. I wonder why that is?

    Wrong. We had a thread on Farron's speech on Wednesday.

    In any case the US election is by far the biggest political betting event that there is. That the UK media is not really interested at the moment is irrelevant.

    Indeed, UK politics is effectively now a one party state for 3 years anyway
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,389
    MyBurningEars said:

    DavidL said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    GeoffM said:


    Hopefully the public is being kept well back in case there are explosives hidden inside.

    Fat chance of that, unless the mosque has been bombed by an extremist group (not unknown in Pakistan). The Ahmadis are probably the most liberal, tolerant and modern Muslim denomination in Britain, though their unusual theology places them outside the Islamic mainstream. The group is fiercely opposed to violence, has no record of supporting militancy even in the face of really quite brutal persecution, and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad argued that this far after the age of Mohammed, "jihad" must be interpreted as a form of non-violent struggle and could not be used to justify bloodshed. They are also relatively liberal on social issues, for instance female Ahmadi teens have to attend workshops where they are encouraged to pursue university education and an independent professional career.

    Ironically one of the reasons they attract so much vituperation from other Muslim groups in the UK is that their level of integration and westernisation has rendered them "sell-outs", and that they are working against Pakistani and other Muslim interests. Even in Britain they are often abused by other Muslims as "Qadianis" (literally, inhabitants of the Indian town where Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was born, but seen as a derogatory slur) or even "Kafir" (non-believer). In Tooting, Sunni Muslim religious groups have been campaigning for other British-Pakistanis to boycott Ahmadi-owned shops and services. Pakistani internet forums often contain gossip about political, business and military leaders who are "secretly Qadianis", and are acting in concert with the USA and Israel.
    Really interesting stuff (and a tad more credible than JackW's story about root canals). Many thanks.
    Cheers. I have a tendency to screed a bit on here, and I'm never sure if I'm just talking (or typing) to myself!

    I've got quite strong personal/professional ties with the Pakistani (and to some extent, wider Muslim) community around London - and actually, it's not a monolithic "community" at all, and has strong divides along pretty much every metric you can think of. Ethnic, linguistic, cultural, denominational, geographic origin, economic background, and - very deeply, but in a way that cuts orthogonally across the other factors - inter-generational. And what I know barely scratches the surface of the complexity.
    The way the word Community is now used is ridiculous.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393
    MyBurningEars said:

    DavidL said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    GeoffM said:


    Hopefully the public is being kept well back in case there are explosives hidden inside.

    Fat chance of that, unless the mosque has been bombed by an extremist group (not unknown in Pakistan). The Ahmadis are probably the most liberal, tolerant and modern Muslim denomination in Britain, though their unusual theology places them outside the Islamic mainstream. The group is fiercely opposed to violence, has no record of supporting militancy even in the face of really quite brutal persecution, and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad argued that this far after the age of Mohammed, "jihad" must be interpreted as a form of non-violent struggle and could not be used to justify bloodshed. They are also relatively liberal on social issues, for instance female Ahmadi teens have to attend workshops where they are encouraged to pursue university education and an independent professional career.

    Ironically one of the reasons they attract so much vituperation from other Muslim groups in the UK is that their level of integration and westernisation has rendered them "sell-outs", and that they are working against Pakistani and other Muslim interests. Even in Britain they are often abused by other Muslims as "Qadianis" (literally, inhabitants of the Indian town where Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was born, but seen as a derogatory slur) or even "Kafir" (non-believer). In Tooting, Sunni Muslim religious groups have been campaigning for other British-Pakistanis to boycott Ahmadi-owned shops and services. Pakistani internet forums often contain gossip about political, business and military leaders who are "secretly Qadianis", and are acting in concert with the USA and Israel.
    Really interesting stuff (and a tad more credible than JackW's story about root canals). Many thanks.
    Cheers. I have a tendency to screed a bit on here, and I'm never sure if I'm just talking (or typing) to myself!

    I've got quite strong personal/professional ties with the Pakistani (and to some extent, wider Muslim) community around London - and actually, it's not a monolithic "community" at all, and has strong divides along pretty much every metric you can think of. Ethnic, linguistic, cultural, denominational, geographic origin, economic background, and - very deeply, but in a way that cuts orthogonally across the other factors - inter-generational. And what I know barely scratches the surface of the complexity.
    It is unfortunate that our media are not so well informed. A more nuanced approach to "acceptable" Islam and "unacceptable" Islam would be a lot more persuasive than our PM claiming it is a religion of peace.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    GeoffM said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    richardDodd said:

    Big Mosque fire in London...

    Careful, it's the Ahmadiyya, roughly speaking Islam's equivalent to the Mormons. They add in an extra 19th-century prophet, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), so most Muslims do not regard Ahmadis as Muslim at all. In Pakistan, the constitution was actually amended to affirm this, and it's a criminal offence for an Ahmadi to claim to be Muslim. This despite Pakistan's best renowned scientist - a national hero for winning the Nobel Prize for Physics - being a devout Ahmadi. This kind of state discrimination, as well as ongoing violent persecution, is what has brought so many Ahmadis to London in the first place: they are massively disproportionate among British Muslims compared to their relative small numbers in Pakistan.

    Most British Muslims would deny that the affected building is a "mosque" at all.

    That's very interesting. Your outsider characterisation of them has not made it as far as the Telegraph, though, who use the word mosque a dozen times in their report or the London Fire Brigade twitter feed who similarly don't bother with such nuances.

    In fact the way you choose to define them hasn't made it to the website of their mosque itself, which describes itself as the "the largest mosque in western europe" http://www.baitulfutuh.org/
    Um. Its not the way MBE 'chooses' to define them. It is the way they are defined both by themselves and the rest of the muslim world. Are you that utterly anti-islamic that you cannot conceive that there might be factions who have genuine peaceful intent?
    I'm going by their own website which defines their own building as "the largest mosque in western europe" against someone on the internet who says it isn't.

    Sure I accept that every grouping has factions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    Dair said:

    isam said:

    Quite pleased that Peter Whittle will be the UKIP Mayoral candidate. Nothing at all against Suzanne Evans, but I think this is a good move

    For one, it means another Kipper gets some attention, Suzanne is already an established media performer, and also it seems more authentic to have a Londoner who stood in a London seat as the candidate

    Lets be fair we could have Mother Theresa as our candidate and we wouldn't win, so whoever would do best isn't really a factor

    That sounds like quite desperate straw clutching.

    Another example of the dysfunctional, amateur and backstabbing nature of UKIP and it's leaving you "quite pleased".

    I guess you can at least hope he is better than David Coburn and doesn't leave UKIP as toxic in London as they now are in Scotland.
    UKIP do now have an MEP in Scotland though
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    GeoffM said:

    ReggieCide said:

    GeoffM said:

    flightpath01 said:

    GeoffM said:

    LadyBucket said:

    Twitter spat earlier between Louise Mensch and Iain Dale about "unsubstantiated claims" in Ashcroft's book. Some very ungentlemanly language from Mr Dale. Perhaps Mrs Balls needs to have word, given her campaign re abuse of women on social media.

    Is Mr Dale feeling the heat, I wonder?

    Abuse of women? Is that targeted against Mrs Mensch or Mrs Dale?
    Oh how we laughed.
    Mr Dale may well be feeling some deserved heat; his decent into mediahood has inevitably coincided with his rise onto pillockhood.
    I'm not sure it's been as much a 'rise' into pillockhood as a public unveiling of a long existing affliction.

    I met him a few years ago at a do in Fuengirola. The conversation began amiably enough but he became incredibly agitated and stalked off after we disagreed strongly about the relative merits of, bizarrely, Ann Widdicombe. It was surreal.
    I trust it had nothing to do with sensuality but if it was, I hope you were on the right side!
    LOL! At that time Mrs Dale was on a stage tour with Widdicombe in some sort of stand-up double act so he was an undiluted fan. I actively disliked her politics and especially her stance on hunting.

    Iain asked me if I'd thought of coming to see them on tour when I was next in the UK. My answer was a very polite No but he took it incredibly personally.
    Did you simultaneously look aghast? He always comes across to me as so urbane. I haven't seen him lately.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    Michael Bloomberg now seriously considering an independent run apparently. If it is Trump v Sanders that is certain
    https://twitter.com/ianbremmer?lang=en-gb
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    That's terrible that Ahmadis are being persecuted in Britain of all places. There seems to be a strain of Sunni Islam that is highly regressive and yet is alive and well in this country. We need to take more of a stand against it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    SandyRentool said:

    HYUFD said:

    david_herdson said:

    There is surely space for an AN Other candidate in the Democratic field. If Sanders is the answer, then it's the wrong question. Biden not quite so much but really, is that the best they can do?

    There is an enormous opportunity for some young governor or senator to take this race by the scruff of its neck and run away with it. Hillary's establishment backing didn't matter in the end in 2008 and can be overcome this time too. Any strong showing in Iowa - not a particularly expensive state - will propel the candidate way up the field and up the fundraising ladder. The issue is more organisation: it takes time to prepare and have the activists and campaign in place. Any later than October is really pushing it.

    After 8 years in power in the US the incumbent party almost always picks the Vice President or an older, experienced Senator (or former Senator in Hillary's case). Young governors and senators are normally only picked by parties which have been out of the White House for 8 years
    Except in The West Wing!
    Yes, and even in the West Wing world he was the first Congressman to be a presidential nominee for about a century. Even then Vice President Bob Russell was the frontrunner and won the Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primary. However former VP John Hoynes won the South Carolina primary this splitting the VP/ex VP vote and allowing Congressman Santos to come through the middle and win California, Pennsylvania, Texas and Florida and the nomination

    http://westwing.wikia.com/wiki/Democratic_presidential_primary_election,_2006
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,896
    Good evening, everyone.

    I only scanned the Dale whining after the first few paragraphs, but I wasn't impressed.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    GeoffM said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    richardDodd said:

    Big Mosque fire in London...

    Careful, it's the Ahmadiyya, roughly speaking Islam's equivalent to the Mormons. They add in an extra 19th-century prophet, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), so most Muslims do not regard Ahmadis as Muslim at all. In Pakistan, the constitution was actually amended to affirm this, and it's a criminal offence for an Ahmadi to claim to be Muslim. This despite Pakistan's best renowned scientist - a national hero for winning the Nobel Prize for Physics - being a devout Ahmadi. This kind of state discrimination, as well as ongoing violent persecution, is what has brought so many Ahmadis to London in the first place: they are massively disproportionate among British Muslims compared to their relative small numbers in Pakistan.

    Most British Muslims would deny that the affected building is a "mosque" at all.

    That's very interesting. Your outsider characterisation of them has not made it as far as the Telegraph, though, who use the word mosque a dozen times in their report or the London Fire Brigade twitter feed who similarly don't bother with such nuances.

    In fact the way you choose to define them hasn't made it to the website of their mosque itself, which describes itself as the "the largest mosque in western europe" http://www.baitulfutuh.org/
    Both my mother in law and sister in law live near there - it is most definitely described as a Mosque and it is huge.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    MyBurningEars said:

    HYUFD said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.

    Who were the last few presidential candidates (don't mean party nominee necessarily, anyone running in the primaries) who you would have identified as "strong", regardless of whether you agreed with their policies?
    Joe Lieberman 2004, John McCain 2000, Bill Clinton 1992, Ronald Reagan 1980
    Whenever I've expressed a degree of admiration for McCain (in the company of Brits), I've got very peculiar looks.
    I would have happily voted for McCain over Gore in 2000, he would have been a far better president than Bush. The failure of Bobby Kennedy to become president in 1968 and John McCain to become President in 2000 produced the Nixon and George W Bush presidencies, two of the worst presidencies in recent times. I would also add had Reagan beaten Ford and then Carter in 1976 that would also have saved the US from the 3rd worst president of the postwar era, even if it had meant Ronnie becoming president 4 years early!
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    GeoffM said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    richardDodd said:

    Big Mosque fire in London...

    Careful, it's the Ahmadiyya, roughly speaking Islam's equivalent to the Mormons. They add in an extra 19th-century prophet, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), so most Muslims do not regard Ahmadis as Muslim at all. In Pakistan, the constitution was actually amended to affirm this, and it's a criminal offence for an Ahmadi to claim to be Muslim. This despite Pakistan's best renowned scientist - a national hero for winning the Nobel Prize for Physics - being a devout Ahmadi. This kind of state discrimination, as well as ongoing violent persecution, is what has brought so many Ahmadis to London in the first place: they are massively disproportionate among British Muslims compared to their relative small numbers in Pakistan.

    Most British Muslims would deny that the affected building is a "mosque" at all.

    That's very interesting. Your outsider characterisation of them has not made it as far as the Telegraph, though, who use the word mosque a dozen times in their report or the London Fire Brigade twitter feed who similarly don't bother with such nuances.

    In fact the way you choose to define them hasn't made it to the website of their mosque itself, which describes itself as the "the largest mosque in western europe" http://www.baitulfutuh.org/
    The subdivision of religions into sects seems to lead to violence between the sects as frequently as violence between the religions. This violence always involves collateral damage: a plague on all their houses.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393
    HYUFD said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    HYUFD said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.

    Who were the last few presidential candidates (don't mean party nominee necessarily, anyone running in the primaries) who you would have identified as "strong", regardless of whether you agreed with their policies?
    Joe Lieberman 2004, John McCain 2000, Bill Clinton 1992, Ronald Reagan 1980
    Whenever I've expressed a degree of admiration for McCain (in the company of Brits), I've got very peculiar looks.
    I would have happily voted for McCain over Gore in 2000, he would have been a far better president than Bush. The failure of Bobby Kennedy to become president in 1968 and John McCain to become President in 2000 produced the Nixon and George W Bush presidencies, two of the worst presidencies in recent times. I would also add had Reagan beaten Ford and then Carter in 1976 that would also have saved the US from the 3rd worst president of the postwar era, even if it had meant Ronnie becoming president 4 years early!
    Robert Kennedy was a terrible loss. Schlesinger's "Life and Times of Robert Kennedy" is probably my second favourite US history book (after "Battle Cry of Freedom"). It is a brilliant read, even if he wears his heart on his sleeve.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    “The Conservatives will drag England’s schools into the past by reviving grammar schools, demoralising teachers and cutting resources, according to the new shadow education secretary. Lucy Powell, who took over the education role last week following Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership victory, said Labour would fiercely contest any move by the government to allow the revival of selective schools. A decision on the proposed expansion of a Kent grammar school is expected soon.”
    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/25/labour-lucy-powell-tories-selective-schools-education
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    “George Osborne was given an embarrassing endorsement by China’s state media today after playing down the country’s dire human rights record during a tour this week. The Chancellor, who spent five days in China promoting trade links this week, was praised for his ‘pragmatism’ and ‘modest manner’ after focusing on business, rather than human rights.”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249351/No-wonder-like-George-China-hails-Osborne-NOT-mentioning-human-rights-week-long-tour.html
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,949
    I assume with the Labour conference starting this weekend we can expect a few opinion polls later, to heap the misery upon the lefties? ;)
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    HYUFD said:

    “The Conservatives will drag England’s schools into the past by reviving grammar schools, demoralising teachers and cutting resources, according to the new shadow education secretary. Lucy Powell, who took over the education role last week following Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership victory, said Labour would fiercely contest any move by the government to allow the revival of selective schools. A decision on the proposed expansion of a Kent grammar school is expected soon.”
    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/25/labour-lucy-powell-tories-selective-schools-education


    Is this the same Lucy Powell who was responsible for Ed M 's successfu l shambolic election program?

    If so, she has little credibility - on anything.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    GeoffM said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    GeoffM said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    richardDodd said:

    Big Mosque fire in London...

    Careful, it's the Ahmadiyya, roughly speaking Islam's equivalent to the Mormons. They add in an extra 19th-century prophet, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), so most Muslims do not regard Ahmadis as Muslim at all. In Pakistan, the constitution was actually amended to affirm this, and it's a criminal offence for an Ahmadi to claim to be Muslim. This despite Pakistan's best renowned scientist - a national hero for winning the Nobel Prize for Physics - being a devout Ahmadi. This kind of state discrimination, as well as ongoing violent persecution, is what has brought so many Ahmadis to London in the first place: they are massively disproportionate among British Muslims compared to their relative small numbers in Pakistan.

    Most British Muslims would deny that the affected building is a "mosque" at all.

    That's very interesting. Your outsider characterisation of them has not made it as far as the Telegraph, though, who use the word mosque a dozen times in their report or the London Fire Brigade twitter feed who similarly don't bother with such nuances.

    In fact the way you choose to define them hasn't made it to the website of their mosque itself, which describes itself as the "the largest mosque in western europe" http://www.baitulfutuh.org/
    Um. Its not the way MBE 'chooses' to define them. It is the way they are defined both by themselves and the rest of the muslim world. Are you that utterly anti-islamic that you cannot conceive that there might be factions who have genuine peaceful intent?
    I'm going by their own website which defines their own building as "the largest mosque in western europe" against someone on the internet who says it isn't.

    Sure I accept that every grouping has factions.
    He said that most other Muslims would not describe it as a mosque, not that the owners did. I was happy to follow the point he was making, not twist it into something stupid.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    HYUFD said:

    Michael Bloomberg now seriously considering an independent run apparently. If it is Trump v Sanders that is certain
    https://twitter.com/ianbremmer?lang=en-gb

    I think if its Trump v Sanders, then Bloomberg would have a very good chance.

    However if ether party picks somebody else then I'm less convinced it would work.
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    HYUFD said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Out of curiosity - we haven't had a single thread about the Kipper or LD conferences - yet had a fair few on a distant US race. I wonder why that is?

    Wrong. We had a thread on Farron's speech on Wednesday.

    In any case the US election is by far the biggest political betting event that there is. That the UK media is not really interested at the moment is irrelevant.

    Indeed, UK politics is effectively now a one party state for 3 years anyway
    Only because one party has boarded a time machine into the 1970s .And thinks protest is better than power.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    HYUFD said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.

    Who were the last few presidential candidates (don't mean party nominee necessarily, anyone running in the primaries) who you would have identified as "strong", regardless of whether you agreed with their policies?
    Joe Lieberman 2004, John McCain 2000, Bill Clinton 1992, Ronald Reagan 1980
    Whenever I've expressed a degree of admiration for McCain (in the company of Brits), I've got very peculiar looks.
    I would have happily voted for McCain over Gore in 2000, he would have been a far better president than Bush. The failure of Bobby Kennedy to become president in 1968 and John McCain to become President in 2000 produced the Nixon and George W Bush presidencies, two of the worst presidencies in recent times. I would also add had Reagan beaten Ford and then Carter in 1976 that would also have saved the US from the 3rd worst president of the postwar era, even if it had meant Ronnie becoming president 4 years early!
    Robert Kennedy was a terrible loss. Schlesinger's "Life and Times of Robert Kennedy" is probably my second favourite US history book (after "Battle Cry of Freedom"). It is a brilliant read, even if he wears his heart on his sleeve.
    Indeed, in some ways he was even more charismatic and inspiring than his brother. His assassination was a dreadful tragedy for the US and the world
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    HYUFD said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Out of curiosity - we haven't had a single thread about the Kipper or LD conferences - yet had a fair few on a distant US race. I wonder why that is?

    Wrong. We had a thread on Farron's speech on Wednesday.

    In any case the US election is by far the biggest political betting event that there is. That the UK media is not really interested at the moment is irrelevant.

    Indeed, UK politics is effectively now a one party state for 3 years anyway
    Well we have the referendum to bet on, or rather some do. I would have thought that anyone wanting Out would be happy to see UKIP kept out of any publicity.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    edited September 2015
    madasafish said:

    HYUFD said:

    “The Conservatives will drag England’s schools into the past by reviving grammar schools, demoralising teachers and cutting resources, according to the new shadow education secretary. Lucy Powell, who took over the education role last week following Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership victory, said Labour would fiercely contest any move by the government to allow the revival of selective schools. A decision on the proposed expansion of a Kent grammar school is expected soon.”
    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/25/labour-lucy-powell-tories-selective-schools-education


    Is this the same Lucy Powell who was responsible for Ed M 's successfu l shambolic election program?

    If so, she has little credibility - on anything.
    Good, hopefully she does as bad a job at Shadow Education as she did in the election
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    flightpath01 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Out of curiosity - we haven't had a single thread about the Kipper or LD conferences - yet had a fair few on a distant US race. I wonder why that is?

    Wrong. We had a thread on Farron's speech on Wednesday.

    In any case the US election is by far the biggest political betting event that there is. That the UK media is not really interested at the moment is irrelevant.

    Indeed, UK politics is effectively now a one party state for 3 years anyway
    Well we have the referendum to bet on, or rather some do. I would have thought that anyone wanting Out would be happy to see UKIP kept out of any publicity.
    Indeed, EUref at least offers some betting interest before the end of 2017
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    madasafish said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Out of curiosity - we haven't had a single thread about the Kipper or LD conferences - yet had a fair few on a distant US race. I wonder why that is?

    Wrong. We had a thread on Farron's speech on Wednesday.

    In any case the US election is by far the biggest political betting event that there is. That the UK media is not really interested at the moment is irrelevant.

    Indeed, UK politics is effectively now a one party state for 3 years anyway
    Only because one party has boarded a time machine into the 1970s .And thinks protest is better than power.
    Indeed, but basically this is 2001-2003 in reverse, except Cameron, not Blair, now reigns supreme. Indeed, if they get their act to together UKIP could become the main opposition by default as the LDs were in those years, EUref, like Iraq, providing the catalyst
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,985
    BigRich said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Bloomberg now seriously considering an independent run apparently. If it is Trump v Sanders that is certain
    https://twitter.com/ianbremmer?lang=en-gb

    I think if its Trump v Sanders, then Bloomberg would have a very good chance.

    However if ether party picks somebody else then I'm less convinced it would work.
    If it's Trump vs Sanders I'm going to start building a nuclear shelter in the garden.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    HYUFD said:

    “The Conservatives will drag England’s schools into the past by reviving grammar schools, demoralising teachers and cutting resources, according to the new shadow education secretary. Lucy Powell, who took over the education role last week following Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership victory, said Labour would fiercely contest any move by the government to allow the revival of selective schools. A decision on the proposed expansion of a Kent grammar school is expected soon.”
    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/25/labour-lucy-powell-tories-selective-schools-education

    I've never understood, the Lefts passion on this issue, especially as they made no effort to abolish them when in power.

    Given that schooling is provided by Locale Government for locale people, why the expansion, retention, or abolition of Grammar schools could not be left entirely to Local Government is also beyond me.

    The example from NI where until recently grammar schools where widespread, does indicate that when there are enough of them, they do as their advocates say and enables a larger proportion of children form lower socio-economic backgrounds to get to university.

    However given the now large and growing importance of free schools/academies, I would think the arguments over grammar schools to die down.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    BigRich said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Bloomberg now seriously considering an independent run apparently. If it is Trump v Sanders that is certain
    https://twitter.com/ianbremmer?lang=en-gb

    I think if its Trump v Sanders, then Bloomberg would have a very good chance.

    However if ether party picks somebody else then I'm less convinced it would work.
    If Hillary is the Democratic nominee, yes, it is unlikely to work, same if Jeb Bush or Rubio end up the GOP nominee. However Trump v Sanders would be ideal for Bloomberg, he could win over minorities by being more pro immigration than Trump, and moderate suburbanites by being more fiscally conservative than Sanders
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,831
    ReggieCide said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.

    You must feel distraught for Labourites: all of their candidates were dire
    They were; I don't really see that as being news tbh.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,831
    MyBurningEars said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.

    Who were the last few presidential candidates (don't mean party nominee necessarily, anyone running in the primaries) who you would have identified as "strong", regardless of whether you agreed with their policies?
    Are you referring to 2016 or previous primaries in 2012 and 2008? I personally would agree with Hilary most out of all the candidates, but given the sheer lack of trust many Americans have on her I don't think she's a strong candidate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    BigRich said:

    HYUFD said:

    “The Conservatives will drag England’s schools into the past by reviving grammar schools, demoralising teachers and cutting resources, according to the new shadow education secretary. Lucy Powell, who took over the education role last week following Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership victory, said Labour would fiercely contest any move by the government to allow the revival of selective schools. A decision on the proposed expansion of a Kent grammar school is expected soon.”
    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/25/labour-lucy-powell-tories-selective-schools-education

    I've never understood, the Lefts passion on this issue, especially as they made no effort to abolish them when in power.

    Given that schooling is provided by Locale Government for locale people, why the expansion, retention, or abolition of Grammar schools could not be left entirely to Local Government is also beyond me.

    The example from NI where until recently grammar schools where widespread, does indicate that when there are enough of them, they do as their advocates say and enables a larger proportion of children form lower socio-economic backgrounds to get to university.

    However given the now large and growing importance of free schools/academies, I would think the arguments over grammar schools to die down.
    Indeed, no reason why you cannot have ballots to open new grammar schools as well as close them
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    rottenborough said:

    BigRich said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Bloomberg now seriously considering an independent run apparently. If it is Trump v Sanders that is certain
    https://twitter.com/ianbremmer?lang=en-gb

    I think if its Trump v Sanders, then Bloomberg would have a very good chance.

    However if ether party picks somebody else then I'm less convinced it would work.
    If it's Trump vs Sanders I'm going to start building a nuclear shelter in the garden.
    Ha Ha. Shows exactly why such a race would be ideal for a sane independent like Bloomberg
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    Moses_ said:

    Corbyn arriving at Brighton says "Party United for a decent society"

    Oh wait a minute.......

    I thought it amusing he apparently said 'more united Labour than divided it' like that is some grand achievement. I'm certainly not one who thinks parties should be ideologically monolithic entities or expel their awkward squads automatically, but I would have thought it a bare minimum that more unites a party than divides it for it to functionally exist, it doesn't exactly refute serious divisions which could well cripple a party. Perhaps it will not be crippled, we shall see, but stating more unites than divides them is pretty weaksauce stuff.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    edited September 2015
    MyBurningEars said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.

    Who were the last few presidential candidates (don't mean party nominee necessarily, anyone running in the primaries) who you would have identified as "strong", regardless of whether you agreed with their policies?
    Are you referring to 2016 or previous primaries in 2012 and 2008? I personally would agree with Hilary most out of all the candidates, but given the sheer lack of trust many Americans have on her I don't think she's a strong candidate.
    Well since you said nobody in 2016, I was asking for the last few before that - but that might be some way back! (HYUFD's answer was very interesting and he left decade-long gaps between some "strong" candidates...)
    Yes, but strong candidates do not come along that regularly, in UK or US politics
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,831
    MyBurningEars said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Virtually all the candidates in both the Democratic and Republican races for 2016 are mediocre to pretty dire. I feel sorry for the Americans.

    Who were the last few presidential candidates (don't mean party nominee necessarily, anyone running in the primaries) who you would have identified as "strong", regardless of whether you agreed with their policies?
    Are you referring to 2016 or previous primaries in 2012 and 2008? I personally would agree with Hilary most out of all the candidates, but given the sheer lack of trust many Americans have on her I don't think she's a strong candidate.
    Well since you said nobody in 2016, I was asking for the last few before that - but that might be some way back! (HYUFD's answer was very interesting and he left decade-long gaps between some "strong" candidates...)
    I had to say I wouldn't have considered any of the Republican candidates in 2012 that I can recall - Santorum, McCain, Huckabee, Perry, Romney, etc strong. In 2008 I can only recall Clinton, Obama, and John McCain - and while I'm not a fan of his presidency, he did strike me as a strong candidate at the time, though I was pretty young then (14).
This discussion has been closed.

© Vanilla Keystone Theme 2025