politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first local election night of the Corbyn era with two L
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first local election night of the Corbyn era with two LAB defences in London
Noel Park (Lab defence) and Woodside (Lab defence) on Haringey
Result of council at last election (2014): Labour 48, Liberal Democrats 9 (Labour majority of 39)
Result of ward at last election (2014) : Emboldened denotes elected
Comments
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First?0
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Second.0
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Terzo. The Ayr East and Bourn seats look quite interesting this week.0
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Number four ;(0
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FPT
That's because she never had the pleasure of going on a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Jeremy Corbyn.MikeK said:GoodnightVienna @CallingEngland 21m21 minutes ago
#Farage: 'Angela Merkel is the only person I've met who is even more miserable in private than she is in public.'
#UKIP0 -
Boring by-election night.0
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Check this article from Liverpool University. Calm analysis of the Corbyn factor!
http://news.liv.ac.uk/2015/09/14/the-liverpool-view-prime-minister-jeremy-corbyn/
Remarkably measured IMO!0 -
And nearly as bad as touring the diesel decks with Rimmer.Tim_B said:FPT
That's because she never had the pleasure of going on a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Jeremy Corbyn.MikeK said:GoodnightVienna @CallingEngland 21m21 minutes ago
#Farage: 'Angela Merkel is the only person I've met who is even more miserable in private than she is in public.' #UKIP0 -
And this one, which certainly highlights some of the challenges facing Jeremy Corbyn and passes over the ineptness which has characterised his first few days.
http://news.liv.ac.uk/2015/09/14/the-liverpool-view-jeremy-corbyn-the-communicator/0 -
Bobby Sol and Lamela - nearly £60m of Bale money.
Corbynomics.
Cor-byn-u-spurs0 -
Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder
The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.
The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.
If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?0 -
No she had to dodge out of their way whilst she crossed the road...Tim_B said:FPT
That's because she never had the pleasure of going on a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Jeremy Corbyn.MikeK said:GoodnightVienna @CallingEngland 21m21 minutes ago
#Farage: 'Angela Merkel is the only person I've met who is even more miserable in private than she is in public.' #UKIP0 -
Very true and with the Labour party suffering from its internal pressures south of the border, they are in an even worse place. I wish that the Union can be maintained. I truly think that we are better together, but do worry that there may be a tide running... Of course, the SNP canno just call a (binding) referendum whenever they like and also the electorate may not like being constantly asked...Alistair said:Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder
The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.
The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.
If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?
We shall see!0 -
@paulwaugh: Anneliese Midgley, former Unite head of pol strategy, is now Jeremy Corbyn's deputy chief of staff. More roles due http://t.co/wGJIwp8cXR0
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Thanks Harry.
Bourn's my ward. The independent situation back in 2014 can be overstated: one was a local campaigner against housing development, who the Conservatives selected (and who annoyingly won) in this year's locals. The other was a friend of a local character and good guy, who had once served on the council. Both had some significant friends or campaigns behind them back in 2014.
If anyone wants to know, I voted Lib Dem. I nearly did not, as there was a Lib Dem canvasser outside the station who was sporting the most hideous yellow socks.
We had two Conservative leaflets through the door (one fairly large format), one Lib Dem, and one UKIP. Nothing from Labour and the Greens. If they can't be bothered to leaflet us, I cannot be bothered to vote for them.
There was also some good contact with several of the candidates on the local messageboards.
I'd expect the Conservatives to win, with the Lib Dems a close second.0 -
you actually think the SNP has heavyweights ? ( salmond aside )Alistair said:Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder
The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.
The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.
If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?
Scotland is like Labour - full of shit MPs who couldnt carry a sprig of heather let alone an argument.0 -
Corey Lewandowski, Trump's campaign manager, said he doesn't speak for Trump. Only Trump speaks for Trump.
You know it.
I sense the coverage of Trump is changing. Today it has been his criticism of Fiorina and Jeb's wife that is up front. Up until now it has been broadly positive. Today it isn't.0 -
Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.
However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).
Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.
Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.
"Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.
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I occasionally notice posts from the Jezlamists that the PBTories 'hate' Jez. I don't think I've read a hateful post from a Tory here about Jez; I don't think anyone hates him, like they may have Brown, they just don't agree with him at all. Personally I find him mirthful.0
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Fwiw certainly not Darling.Alistair said:Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder
The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.
The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.
If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?
'If it happens, someone else would be leading it – I’ve moved on from that. It’s something I strongly, strongly believe in and I would play my part, but I did that two-and-half-year campaign and the banking crisis. I think that’s more than enough for one political life.'
http://tinyurl.com/q26xwx7
It's nice that he's moved on.0 -
Well, David Cameron and the European Commission also played some role.Alistair said:Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder
The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.
The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.
If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?0 -
Don't hate him. Find some of his views deeply distasteful, but he strikes me more like a Norman Wisdom character, who by weird circumstance ends up in an operating theatre as the team around him look expectantly for him to commence the brain surgery. "Mister Grimsdale, there's been a bit of a mix-up..."JonnyJimmy said:I occasionally notice posts from the Jezlamists that the PBTories 'hate' Jez. I don't think I've read a hateful post from a Tory here about Jez; I don't think anyone hates him, like they may have Brown, they just don't agree with him at all. Personally I find him mirthful.
He is passed a scalpel.
He gulps....0 -
The union is dead is when not if it ends... English politicians need to wake up and ensure the split is on English terms.0
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Spot onJonnyJimmy said:I occasionally notice posts from the Jezlamists that the PBTories 'hate' Jez. I don't think I've read a hateful post from a Tory here about Jez; I don't think anyone hates him, like they may have Brown, they just don't agree with him at all. Personally I find him mirthful.
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FT has something on Corbyn means to stay in Europe to impose a Torbin Tax on The City. Can't read details.0
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If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.0 -
David Cameron, like the sensible politician he is, made sure he featured as little as physically possible in the IndyRef campaign.EPG said:
Well, David Cameron and the European Commission also played some role.Alistair said:Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder
The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.
The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.
If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?
0 -
Saw a good point on People's Quantitative Easing and EU membership in The Guardian comments section... think it has been discussed here before. Isn't it true that PQE is banned under the EU treaties? Doesn't that basically mean Corbyn has no economic policy..? Absolute utter shambles if true.0
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No particularly, but they do have Sturgeon - who remains the most popular politician in Scotland. Who will stand opposite her on the debate platform?Alanbrooke said:
you actually think the SNP has heavyweights ?Alistair said:Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder
The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.
The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.
If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?0 -
Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.AnneJGP said:Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.
However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).
Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.
Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.
"Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.
Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.
The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.0 -
Dr Hannah fry,watching her BBC 4 - beauty and brains ;-)0
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Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."0 -
So rapists deserve longer sentences for attacking brown children rather than white children? I find the increasing anti-white racism at the heart of the state very concerning.0
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''As for “people’s QE”, forcing the Bank to buy the bonds issued by a new national investment bank, which I touched on a couple of weeks ago, not only would this put an end to the most successful economic policy innovation of the past two decades – central bank independence – but it is entirely unnecessary.Pauly said:Saw a good point on People's Quantitative Easing and EU membership in The Guardian comments section... think it has been discussed here before. Isn't it true that PQE is banned under the EU treaties? Doesn't that basically mean Corbyn has no economic policy..? Absolute utter shambles if true.
If a future government wants to increase infrastructure spending it can do so. If it did so through a new investment bank, that would also increase spending and debt. But if the new bank was soundly-based, and its bonds guaranteed by the government, financial institutions would queue up to buy them. If, in a subsequent downturn, the monetary policy committee did more QE, it could buy some of these bonds if it chose to do so.
Forcing the Bank to be the exclusive buyer of such bonds in all circumstances, suggests that they would be too dodgy for investors and leave the Bank saddled in way that would risk insolvency (requiring the government to step in and prop it up). Leaving the QE tap permanently turned on would mean higher inflation and interest rates. This is a policy whose time should never come.''
http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002119.html#more0 -
Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.John_M said:
Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.AnneJGP said:Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.
However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).
Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.
Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.
"Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.
Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.
The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.0 -
I agree to a point but i do think that as time passes the mirth will fade and feelings will start to harden.JonnyJimmy said:I occasionally notice posts from the Jezlamists that the PBTories 'hate' Jez. I don't think I've read a hateful post from a Tory here about Jez; I don't think anyone hates him, like they may have Brown, they just don't agree with him at all. Personally I find him mirthful.
Some of the people he seems to be promoting alongside his frequently mentioned less than pleasant cheer leaders will start to polarise opinions.
That said in some ways he is a breath of fresh air-an area i don't think people have considered enough is the impact he will have on the next Conservative leader. Osborne will look even more like the consummate politician from the Westminster bubble. An outsider will look even more appealing.0 -
Love the tweet with Abbott being put in her place by a new MP.
Have there been any further "Corbygaffes" since 6pm?0 -
To make matter worse, it sounds as though it is because of the misogyny in some parts of these cultures. This judgement therefore reinforces that misogyny.JEO said:So rapists deserve longer sentences for attacking brown children rather than white children? I find the increasing anti-white racism at the heart of the state very concerning.
People who think an abused child is somehow less valuable, or has somehow been 'shamed', are, frankly, asshats who should not have children.0 -
That's where "hate crimes" end up.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
As opposed to all those crimes motivated by altruism and love.0 -
Fair enough, an economic counter-argument but lefties have been ignoring them for years. If there is a clear EU treaty violation though, that is more likely to convince people like Nick Palmer. It does seem to be a violation and hence his main 'new' policy idea is not even feasible. It is an insult to the electorate if he tries to peddle this until May 2016.flightpath01 said:
''As for “people’s QE”, forcing the Bank to buy the bonds issued by a new national investment bank, which I touched on a couple of weeks ago, not only would this put an end to the most successful economic policy innovation of the past two decades – central bank independence – but it is entirely unnecessary.Pauly said:Saw a good point on People's Quantitative Easing and EU membership in The Guardian comments section... think it has been discussed here before. Isn't it true that PQE is banned under the EU treaties? Doesn't that basically mean Corbyn has no economic policy..? Absolute utter shambles if true.
If a future government wants to increase infrastructure spending it can do so. If it did so through a new investment bank, that would also increase spending and debt. But if the new bank was soundly-based, and its bonds guaranteed by the government, financial institutions would queue up to buy them. If, in a subsequent downturn, the monetary policy committee did more QE, it could buy some of these bonds if it chose to do so.
Forcing the Bank to be the exclusive buyer of such bonds in all circumstances, suggests that they would be too dodgy for investors and leave the Bank saddled in way that would risk insolvency (requiring the government to step in and prop it up). Leaving the QE tap permanently turned on would mean higher inflation and interest rates. This is a policy whose time should never come.''
http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002119.html#more0 -
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"0 -
What if the person is the abused child? It's a common impact on victims' lives, isn't it?JosiasJessop said:
To make matter worse, it sounds as though it is because of the misogyny in some parts of these cultures. This judgement therefore reinforces that misogyny.JEO said:So rapists deserve longer sentences for attacking brown children rather than white children? I find the increasing anti-white racism at the heart of the state very concerning.
People who think an abused child is somehow less valuable, or has somehow been 'shamed', are, frankly, asshats who should not have children.0 -
Rcs1000's point about a shortage of Muslim brides in Europe isn't thought through. These male migrants will just bring in brides from abroad who will be suitably religious and submissive. Thats what many Muslims in the UK already do. And our immigration system is stupid enough to accommodate such a practice while we cut skilled worker visas.0
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That's a fair point, but I'm invoking the POWER OF ANECDOTE to argue that many right thinking right-of-centre people (e.g. yours truly) are fiscally dry but socially sopping wet. I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).EPG said:
Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.John_M said:
Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.AnneJGP said:Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.
However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).
Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.
Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.
"Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.
Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.
The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.
I would imagine that would be palatable across the a wide range of the political spectrum.0 -
Maybe I'm an exception but I feel the motive is irrelevant, rather the unlawful action and it's consequences.TheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"0 -
That's why I said I'm not a fan of such things.Pauly said:
Maybe I'm an exception but I feel the motive is irrelevant, rather the unlawful action and it's consequences.TheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"0 -
BT broadband and BT sport. A match made in hell.
Missed the whole of the second half trying to get the fdecking site working.0 -
I'm sure the new shadow minister for preventing it abuse will sort it out. Its not like she was involved deeply in Labour Rotherham politics when the abuse was going on and never said anything.JosiasJessop said:
To make matter worse, it sounds as though it is because of the misogyny in some parts of these cultures. This judgement therefore reinforces that misogyny.JEO said:So rapists deserve longer sentences for attacking brown children rather than white children? I find the increasing anti-white racism at the heart of the state very concerning.
People who think an abused child is somehow less valuable, or has somehow been 'shamed', are, frankly, asshats who should not have children.0 -
@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://t.co/cUBxZbB6qb0 -
@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories …0 -
Yes. I was referring to people who have children who have been abused, not the victims themselves.EPG said:
What if the person is the abused child? It's a common impact on victims' lives, isn't it?JosiasJessop said:
To make matter worse, it sounds as though it is because of the misogyny in some parts of these cultures. This judgement therefore reinforces that misogyny.JEO said:So rapists deserve longer sentences for attacking brown children rather than white children? I find the increasing anti-white racism at the heart of the state very concerning.
People who think an abused child is somehow less valuable, or has somehow been 'shamed', are, frankly, asshats who should not have children.
Also note: "There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Children as chattels.0 -
I hope they resign and fight a by-election. That is the noble thing to do these days.Scott_P said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://t.co/cUBxZbB6qb0 -
@nickeardley: #bbcqt a must watch. 2 apologies from @johnmcdonnellMP, more on Labour's policy on Nato membership & more on the national anthem0
-
Obviously, I don't want anyone assaulted for their racial origin, and those who do should be heavily punished, but I disagree.TheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
What about the boy who's autistic, or who suffers from tourettes, or who's dressed by his parents in poor and crap clothes, or has ginger hair, or has an out-of-town accent, or is just a bit of a loner, or who is cross-eyed and a bit shy?
These are all crimes motivated by 'hate' on nothing more than the visual appearance of the victim or circumstances beyond his control.
It is not confined to race and the sorts of people who launch such assaults are very similar to those who launch assaults on any of the above.0 -
In principle, I'm not sure why the assailant should get a longer sentence for the one assault, rather than the other.TheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"0 -
It is like equality laws.SeanT said:
Hate crimes are a stupid concept. But here the stupidity has been taken to a celestial new level, a truly WTF moment: which makes a mockery of English law, in toto.TheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
When I go for a job I want to be hired because I'm the most qualified and suitable person for the job not because of the colour of my skin.
That's only going to stoke up resentment.0 -
The most discriminated against group by the authorities are poor white British children, IMHO.SeanT said:
I might convert to Islam, now. And try and pretend I'm Asian. At least then my daughters might get the full protection of law, and maximum deterrence against child rapists, rather than the second class "whitey" law that has now been brought in, for the specific and lesser crime of raping white children.Casino_Royale said:
That's where "hate crimes" end up.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
As opposed to all those crimes motivated by altruism and love.0 -
That does seem to an unfortunate implication.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.0 -
You might be able to add 'male' to that.Casino_Royale said:
The most discriminated against group by the authorities are poor white British children, IMHO.SeanT said:
I might convert to Islam, now. And try and pretend I'm Asian. At least then my daughters might get the full protection of law, and maximum deterrence against child rapists, rather than the second class "whitey" law that has now been brought in, for the specific and lesser crime of raping white children.Casino_Royale said:
That's where "hate crimes" end up.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
As opposed to all those crimes motivated by altruism and love.0 -
The paedophiles name was Jamal Muhammed Raheem Ul NasirTheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"0 -
I ask from a position of ignorance, @TSE, but would that still be the case if the person assaulting you & insulting you was also Pakistani?TheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"0 -
McDonnell has his someone's fucked the bride moment.
Dinnae worry he's apologised on QT for those IRA remarks.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/644618607012540416?lang=en0 -
I wouldn't have thought so, it would depend on the precise circumstances.AnneJGP said:
I ask from a position of ignorance, @TSE, but would that still be the case if the person assaulting you & insulting you was also Pakistani?TheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"0 -
Not only is PQE contrary to EU regulations but so is re-nationalisation as far as I understand0
-
I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.TheScreamingEagles said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories …
I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.
When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.0 -
I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).John_M said:
That's a fair point, but I'm invoking the POWER OF ANECDOTE to argue that many right thinking right-of-centre people (e.g. yours truly) are fiscally dry but socially sopping wet. I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).EPG said:
Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.John_M said:
Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.AnneJGP said:Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.
However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).
Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.
Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.
"Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.
Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.
The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.
I would imagine that would be palatable across the a wide range of the political spectrum.
Quite a close approximation to my own position.0 -
I've said it too, I think the Tories should stick on the centre/one-nation ground that they currently occupy.Casino_Royale said:
I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.TheScreamingEagles said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories …
I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.
When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
It is so successful that they can win a majority with UKIP polling 13%0 -
Yes, but it's in the country's interest to make UKIP the opposition party - and pull the country to right. Keep damaging left-wing economics out of office for a decade or two.Casino_Royale said:
I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.TheScreamingEagles said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories …
I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.
When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
0 -
"Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population.
For these dangerous and divisive elements the legislation proposed in the Race Relations Bill is the very pabulum they need to flourish. Here is the means of showing that the immigrant communities can organise to consolidate their members, to agitate and campaign against their fellow citizens, and to overawe and dominate the rest with the legal weapons which the ignorant and the ill-informed have provided. As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood."0 -
The fact that someone gets a longer sentence for assaulting a particular type of person is the most fuckwitted, fucked-up, ridiculous piece of law in the history of the universe, and it needs to be reversed as soon as possible by people with some brain cells.TheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
If everyone is equal before the law, that needs to be reflected in sentencing.0 -
Worse, hasn't McDonnell said in the past he favours renationalisation without compensation?Big_G_NorthWales said:Not only is PQE contrary to EU regulations but so is re-nationalisation as far as I understand
0 -
Isn’t there a help-line for these poor "depressed Labour MPs"? – something should be done..TheScreamingEagles said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories …0 -
"The fact that someone gets a longer sentence for assaulting a particular type of person is the most fuckwitted, fucked-up, ridiculous piece of law in the history of the universe, and it needs to be reversed as soon as possible by people with some brain cells.
If everyone is equal before the law, that needs to be reflected in sentencing."
We should set up our own Tory party but not obsessed with europe and homosexuals and with sensible judiciary policy.
0 -
I believe soJosiasJessop said:
Worse, hasn't McDonnell said in the past he favours renationalisation without compensation?Big_G_NorthWales said:Not only is PQE contrary to EU regulations but so is re-nationalisation as far as I understand
0 -
"Threat of defections for Corbyn as Labour MPs approach Lib Dems
Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron says he has been approched by Labour MPs who are unhappy about Jeremy Corbyn's election victory"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11870776/Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-party-live.html0 -
If I had the energy I'd write the morning thread "You know Labour have hit rock bottom when their MPs are contemplating defecting to the Lib Dems"SimonStClare said:
Isn’t there a help-line for these poor "depressed Labour MPs"? – something should be done..TheScreamingEagles said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories …0 -
Bloody hell - just look at this. It's clear that a very large number of these men (and they are mainly men) feel a sense of entitlement to walk into Germany unhindered, and are angry these border countries are putting obstacles in their way.
Serbia, Croatia and Hungary should hold Merkel responsible for this - and send her the bill:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34278213/migrant-crisis-in-pictures-whats-happening-on-the-hungarian-border
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-342831520 -
Race relations laws were designed to prevent obviously spiteful behaviour. But, have evolved into preferring some groups over others.isam said:"Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population.
For these dangerous and divisive elements the legislation proposed in the Race Relations Bill is the very pabulum they need to flourish. Here is the means of showing that the immigrant communities can organise to consolidate their members, to agitate and campaign against their fellow citizens, and to overawe and dominate the rest with the legal weapons which the ignorant and the ill-informed have provided. As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood."0 -
I just found this: Cooper criticised Corbyn for the policy:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I believe soJosiasJessop said:
Worse, hasn't McDonnell said in the past he favours renationalisation without compensation?Big_G_NorthWales said:Not only is PQE contrary to EU regulations but so is re-nationalisation as far as I understand
The shadow home secretary criticised the Labour leadership favourite’s proposal not to compensate investors in privatised industries returned to state control by a Corbyn-led government, which she said would affect pension funds and market confidence
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/23/yvette-cooper-criticises-jeremy-corbyn-renationalisation-plan0 -
Croatia have banned traffic in the roads because of the incredible number of migrantsCasino_Royale said:Bloody hell - just look at this. It's clear that a very large number of these men (and they are mainly men) feel a sense of entitlement to walk into Germany unhindered, and are angry these border countries are putting obstacles in their way.
Serbia, Croatia and Hungary should hold Merkel responsible for this - and send her the bill:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34278213/migrant-crisis-in-pictures-whats-happening-on-the-hungarian-border
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34283152
Has anyone ever over estimated the amount of immigration?0 -
Indeed, that was the entire reason for Powell's Birmingham speech. How right he wasSean_F said:
Race relations laws were designed to prevent obviously spiteful behaviour. But, have evolved into preferring some groups over others.isam said:"Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population.
For these dangerous and divisive elements the legislation proposed in the Race Relations Bill is the very pabulum they need to flourish. Here is the means of showing that the immigrant communities can organise to consolidate their members, to agitate and campaign against their fellow citizens, and to overawe and dominate the rest with the legal weapons which the ignorant and the ill-informed have provided. As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood."0 -
There is a lot of money around it seems, with Assem Allam publicly offering Labour MP's bribes to defect, I'm sure MP's will take the money as I'm sure they will politically flop because of the public nature of the bribe.0
-
Osborne must be very clever: he has both you and me convinced.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said it too, I think the Tories should stick on the centre/one-nation ground that they currently occupy.Casino_Royale said:
I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.TheScreamingEagles said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories …
I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.
When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
It is so successful that they can win a majority with UKIP polling 13%
I read a manifesto promising big tax income and inheritance tax cuts, protection of defence spending, immigration controls, EU renegotiation, a reform of human rights law, a repeal of the fox hunting ban, a neo-thatcherite extension of the right to buy, and English votes for English laws.
It got my vote.0 -
Well said.AndyJS said:
The fact that someone gets a longer sentence for assaulting a particular type of person is the most fuckwitted, fucked-up, ridiculous piece of law in the history of the universe, and it needs to be reversed as soon as possible by people with some brain cells.TheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
If everyone is equal before the law, that needs to be reflected in sentencing.
Quite.0 -
I linked an article from the Swedish media where migrants refused to get off the bus in a small town because they insisted on living in a big city with lots of amenities. The entitlement is strong. And when they're not let in they start shouting "Allah akhbar" at the police forces of the Christian countries they demand to be able to access.Casino_Royale said:Bloody hell - just look at this. It's clear that a very large number of these men (and they are mainly men) feel a sense of entitlement to walk into Germany unhindered, and are angry these border countries are putting obstacles in their way.
Serbia, Croatia and Hungary should hold Merkel responsible for this - and send her the bill:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34278213/migrant-crisis-in-pictures-whats-happening-on-the-hungarian-border
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-342831520 -
SecondedPulpstar said:
Well said.AndyJS said:
The fact that someone gets a longer sentence for assaulting a particular type of person is the most fuckwitted, fucked-up, ridiculous piece of law in the history of the universe, and it needs to be reversed as soon as possible by people with some brain cells.TheScreamingEagles said:
Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.SeanT said:
The report is quite explicit.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.SeanT said:
"a bit crazy".JosiasJessop said:
If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.SeanT said:Is there some reason you're not talking about this?
"Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules
I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.
But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
"The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.
She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."
Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
If everyone is equal before the law, that needs to be reflected in sentencing.
Quite.0 -
I reckon that's why it has to be Osborne to replace Dave.Casino_Royale said:
Osborne must be very clever: he has both you and me convinced.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said it too, I think the Tories should stick on the centre/one-nation ground that they currently occupy.Casino_Royale said:
I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.TheScreamingEagles said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories …
I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.
When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
It is so successful that they can win a majority with UKIP polling 13%
I read a manifesto promising big tax income and inheritance tax cuts, protection of defence spending, immigration controls, EU renegotiation, a reform of human rights law, a repeal of the fox hunting ban, a neo-thatcherite extension of the right to buy, and English votes for English laws.
It got my vote.0 -
@bbclaurak: McDonnell also says it is not Labour policy to leave NATO and upper rate income tax should be 50% #bbcqt at 22350
-
What public opinion there is that is sympathetic to such mass immigration on humanitarian grounds will rapidly shift if and when (unfortunately, probably when) a major terrorist attack occurs in the EU that can be traced to the admission of one or more of such men.JEO said:
I linked an article from the Swedish media where migrants refused to get off the bus in a small town because they insisted on living in a big city with lots of amenities. The entitlement is strong. And when they're not let in they start shouting "Allah akhbar" at the police forces of the Christian countries they demand to be able to access.Casino_Royale said:Bloody hell - just look at this. It's clear that a very large number of these men (and they are mainly men) feel a sense of entitlement to walk into Germany unhindered, and are angry these border countries are putting obstacles in their way.
Serbia, Croatia and Hungary should hold Merkel responsible for this - and send her the bill:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34278213/migrant-crisis-in-pictures-whats-happening-on-the-hungarian-border
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-342831520 -
The 'centre ground' is not a fixed place but a movable destination depending on where thenpolitical parties are currently and have been in recent history. You get to move it by winning elections with a position away from the centre. The more right wing the Tory party is when it wins in 2020 the further right the centre ground will shift.0
-
Yes.TheScreamingEagles said:
I reckon that's why it has to be Osborne to replace Dave.Casino_Royale said:
Osborne must be very clever: he has both you and me convinced.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said it too, I think the Tories should stick on the centre/one-nation ground that they currently occupy.Casino_Royale said:
I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.TheScreamingEagles said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories …
I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.
When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
It is so successful that they can win a majority with UKIP polling 13%
I read a manifesto promising big tax income and inheritance tax cuts, protection of defence spending, immigration controls, EU renegotiation, a reform of human rights law, a repeal of the fox hunting ban, a neo-thatcherite extension of the right to buy, and English votes for English laws.
It got my vote.
I should also add that Ed gave me the heebie jeebies.0 -
Come to the dark side Anne, you know you want toAnneJGP said:
I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).John_M said:
That's a fair point, but I'm invoking the POWER OF ANECDOTE to argue that many right thinking right-of-centre people (e.g. yours truly) are fiscally dry but socially sopping wet. I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).EPG said:
Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.John_M said:
Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.
Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.
The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.
I would imagine that would be palatable across the a wide range of the political spectrum.
Quite a close approximation to my own position..
On that note, goodnight all. Hopefully Europe won't have been consumed by sturm und drang when I wake.0 -
I think you are absolutely right John. The trouble is that in the eyes of many on the left that sort of thinking smacks too much of means testing which appears to be one of the new bete noir's amongst socialists - except of course when it allows them to obviously wealthy.John_M said:
That's a fair point, but I'm invoking the POWER OF ANECDOTE to argue that many right thinking right-of-centre people (e.g. yours truly) are fiscally dry but socially sopping wet. I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).EPG said:
Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.John_M said:
Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.AnneJGP said:Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.
However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).
Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.
Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.
"Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.
Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.
The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.
I would imagine that would be palatable across the a wide range of the political spectrum.0 -
In relation with the syrian situation:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/16/obama-s-general-just-set-his-isis-war-plan-on-fire.html
The USA has spent $500 million to train just 4-5 syrians to fight for them according to the commander of the U.S. Central Command, Army Gen. Lloyd Austin.
That's about 65 million pounds per soldier.0 -
So you're more amenable to Ed's replacement?Casino_Royale said:
Yes.TheScreamingEagles said:
I reckon that's why it has to be Osborne to replace Dave.Casino_Royale said:
Osborne must be very clever: he has both you and me convinced.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said it too, I think the Tories should stick on the centre/one-nation ground that they currently occupy.Casino_Royale said:
I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.TheScreamingEagles said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories …
I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.
When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
It is so successful that they can win a majority with UKIP polling 13%
I read a manifesto promising big tax income and inheritance tax cuts, protection of defence spending, immigration controls, EU renegotiation, a reform of human rights law, a repeal of the fox hunting ban, a neo-thatcherite extension of the right to buy, and English votes for English laws.
It got my vote.
I should also add that Ed gave me the heebie jeebies.
0 -
Isn't QT on in 5 minutes ?
Just seeing loads of spoilers for it atm - I bet journos are fucking awful friends to have if a new movie or book comes out !0 -
May I introduce you to the Fiscally Dry Social Liberal Not Obsessed by the Gays or EU New Conservative Party that Scrapheap, RobD and I have formed?John_M said:
That's a fair point, but I'm invoking the POWER OF ANECDOTE to argue that many right thinking right-of-centre people (e.g. yours truly) are fiscally dry but socially sopping wet. I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).EPG said:
Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.John_M said:
Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.AnneJGP said:Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.
However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).
Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.
Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.
"Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.
Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.
The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.
I would imagine that would be palatable across the a wide range of the political spectrum.0 -
Unless it's dozens of them, probably not likely to lead to much I'd have thought - there are probably many many Tory MPs who at least flirted with the idea of defecting to UKIP, but only a few brave souls took the plunge.AndyJS said:"Threat of defections for Corbyn as Labour MPs approach Lib Dems
Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron says he has been approched by Labour MPs who are unhappy about Jeremy Corbyn's election victory"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11870776/Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-party-live.html0 -
So what's left of Corbyn's manifesto?Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: McDonnell also says it is not Labour policy to leave NATO and upper rate income tax should be 50% #bbcqt at 2235
0 -
A Hungarian friend of mine has cancelled his subscription to German cable because the German media portrayal of the refugee crisis paints Germany as the great humanitarian nation and everyone else as some kind of Nazi-alikes with the refugees in the same situation as Jews in 1936.0
