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My old nextdoor neighbour has a very large pond in his back field - courtesy of a bomb crater.Charles said:
FWIW, my parents bought a uncleared bomb site in Kensington in the late 70s to build a house. And only a few years before that the Foxes gave away one of the nicer gardens in the area.MTimT said:FPT @ malcolmg
I first visited London in the mid-1970s when it was incredibly depressing - all the building were black with smog dirt and the whole place felt filthy. When I worked there in 1980-2, Westminster Abbey was being cleaned. By the time I returned to the UK in 1985-7, London already felt a completely different and brighter city, just with the clean up.
I think one of the biggest changes came with the relaxation of the shopping hours laws, with Sunday becoming a useful day and making the streets lively, and the relaxation of the pub hours laws making the city more of a 24-hour place. Between Uber and a 24-hour Tube service, I think this process will only continue to strengthen. It will have some downsides, but I am convinced it is mainly positive for the city, and necessary to keep it at the forefront of international cities.
My next stint in London was 1990-91, by when the restaurant culture was changing and then 1997-99, by when it was in my view a better foodie place than either Paris or New York.
I have not lived in London since, but I can say that the Labour years have changed it beyond recognition for me. The population looks very different, and I no longer have any instinctual feel as to the way Londoners think - I am very much a foreigner in London when I visit now.
Bet I know who regrets the decision more
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Thank you (and to TSE).MTimT said:
Christian. Ironic, as I am an atheistCyclefree said:
What is a "nisraani" please?MTimT said:
Indeed, but enlightened Muslims are losing, not gaining, ground at the moment, and much of the middle class to which they almost uniformly belong are emigrating to the West. Even my Sunni friends in Beirut want out for their kids's sake.TGOHF said:
But it wasn't the Pope who set Christianity down the enlightenment route - quite the opposite.MTimT said:
The problem with Islam is that the Establishment is not reformed. Evidence Saudi Arabia. The Imam of the Grand Mosque in Mecca's views on all out war on Jews, Christians and Shi'a, not to mention his views on women, should not be acceptable to the West. Worse, they provide a religious and moral cover for the very worst of extremists.Philip_Thompson said:Final thought on religion from the previous thread. I don't think anyone rational will argue that unreformed and unenlightened fundamentalist Islam is the same or better than post reformation and enlightened secular Christianity.
I know many Muslims in the UK and overseas who are just as enlightened and reformed in their beliefs as anyone else. The problem is that there are also many who are fundamentalists.
Fundamentalism in almost anything is a bad thing. And we shouldn't be afraid of either saying that it's bad or noting the difference.
I have lived in and visited the region almost my entire life - what's happened to tolerance in the Middle East and Pakistan in my lifetime is entirely depressing. When I lived in Yemen in the early 1980s, whenever a young firebrand would give me a hard time for being a nisraani, the older guys would pipe up to hush him, telling the firebrand I was a person of the Book. Don't hear or see much of that these days.
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That's not the Tory's task: Labour is contaminating its own brand. The Conservatives' task is far more difficult - trying not to succumb to the dangers of having no effective opposition.Scott_P said:
The Tory task is to contaminate the Labour brand with Corbyn.watford30 said:The Tories will quietly concentrate on picking off those surrounding Corbyn.
His lunatic economic plans are Labour lunatic economic plans
His terrorist "friends" are Labour's terrorist friends
Labour might want to portray him as a maverick, but he was endorsed by the PLP (enough to get on the ballot) and overwhelmingly elected by members.
He represents the brand now, and the Tories will spread the tarnish as far and wide as possible in the brief time he remians in post0 -
@Pauly
" ... impose a new skills levy on businesses bringing migrant labour into the country so we can reduce our reliance on imported labour, and boost the skills of young people in the UK"
That could be a biggie. It is something I have been arguing for for more than 10 years. The levy needs to be high enough and ruthlessly imposed and the skills programme needs to be tied in with the needs of the companies that are paying the levy. If it is implemented correctly it will be a big win for young people, the businesses and the country.0 -
"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?0 -
Yeah: they should be told to take the migrants instead.Plato_Says said:I see the Saudis have offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. That's an offer to refuse.
taffys said:Out of 1700 British mosques, just 2 teach modernist versions of Islam:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/
Utterly depressing.
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There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
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They should take more refugees, not that they're going to. It is worth pointing out that lots of Syrians have moved to Saudi since the war, but as economic migrants (which Saudi Arabia encourages) and not under the aegis of humanitarian assistance. That means it's not so useful to for the weak and vulnerable, of course.Cyclefree said:
Yeah: they should be told to take the migrants instead.Plato_Says said:I see the Saudis have offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. That's an offer to refuse.
taffys said:Out of 1700 British mosques, just 2 teach modernist versions of Islam:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/
Utterly depressing.
The 200 mosques thing appears to be an urban legend. Anyone passing that around ought to take a good look at the evidence for the claim.0 -
You're arguing that politics currently is over catered to the interests of the white working class?The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
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Agree.Cyclefree said:
The Hungarian Ambassador was on the Today programme calmly explaining to a somewhat hysterical Sarah Montague that the migrants had reached safe countries long before they got to Hungary. This simply did not compute with her - she seemed determined to make Hungary a villain, rather unfairly. All these countries are bearing the consequences of Germany's idiotic "You can all come. No you can't" hokey cokey policy.Tykejohnno said:
On the radio this morning,they had a guy on from one of the refugees agencies,it seems people from Afghanistan are being seen as refugees.MaxPB said:
More than 70% of whom are not from Syria.Plato_Says said:I see Croatia is being overrun by migrants, riot police trying to hold the border. Sky.
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But what migrant human in their right mind would want to end up in the KSA?Cyclefree said:
Yeah: they should be told to take the migrants instead.Plato_Says said:I see the Saudis have offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. That's an offer to refuse.
taffys said:Out of 1700 British mosques, just 2 teach modernist versions of Islam:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/
Utterly depressing.0 -
Asian Van Man!The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
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There are a lot of sensible changes here, but almost all of it seems to be on stopping illegal immigration. That's a necessary step, but legal immigration here is still far too high.Pauly said:New Immigration Bill features revealed today...
It includes a range of new powers to:
- tackle illegal employment, including a new offence of illegal working
- stop providing support to migrants who do not return home once all claims to asylum have failed
- strengthen our border security
- ensure all public employees in customer-facing roles speak good English
- electronically tag those on immigration bail
- create a new role of Director of Labour Market Enforcement impose a new skills levy on businesses bringing migrant labour into the country so we can reduce our reliance on imported labour, and boost the skills of young people in the UK
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-will-make-it-tougher-than-ever-before-to-live-illegally-in-the-uk
"Whether it is working, renting a flat, having a bank account or driving a car, the new Immigration Bill will help us to take tougher action than ever before on those who flout the law."
And we definitely need to have steps in place so that we can prevent the angry young men currently crossing the Balkans from getting EU passports and coming straight here.0 -
'Disingenuous' is the word that sprang to mind whilst watching that interview.Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy
After 30 years as an MP, one would hope that Corbyn knew full well what was expected of the Party Leader, and as a member of the Privy Council. Failing that he's either incredibly stupid, lazy or just an areshole.0 -
You've already been answered, but think "Nazarene".Cyclefree said:
What is a "nisraani" please?MTimT said:
Indeed, but enlightened Muslims are losing, not gaining, ground at the moment, and much of the middle class to which they almost uniformly belong are emigrating to the West. Even my Sunni friends in Beirut want out for their kids's sake.TGOHF said:
But it wasn't the Pope who set Christianity down the enlightenment route - quite the opposite.MTimT said:
The problem with Islam is that the Establishment is not reformed. Evidence Saudi Arabia. The Imam of the Grand Mosque in Mecca's views on all out war on Jews, Christians and Shi'a, not to mention his views on women, should not be acceptable to the West. Worse, they provide a religious and moral cover for the very worst of extremists.Philip_Thompson said:Final thought on religion from the previous thread. I don't think anyone rational will argue that unreformed and unenlightened fundamentalist Islam is the same or better than post reformation and enlightened secular Christianity.
I know many Muslims in the UK and overseas who are just as enlightened and reformed in their beliefs as anyone else. The problem is that there are also many who are fundamentalists.
Fundamentalism in almost anything is a bad thing. And we shouldn't be afraid of either saying that it's bad or noting the difference.
I have lived in and visited the region almost my entire life - what's happened to tolerance in the Middle East and Pakistan in my lifetime is entirely depressing. When I lived in Yemen in the early 1980s, whenever a young firebrand would give me a hard time for being a nisraani, the older guys would pipe up to hush him, telling the firebrand I was a person of the Book. Don't hear or see much of that these days.0 -
What I find most incredulous is Corbyn's claim not to have been aware. But no, we're told by supporters he's genuine!Plato_Says said:I still can't believe this has really happened, and it's endless - we're on Day 5.
Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy
Genuine asshat0 -
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?0 -
You should note that I referred to the many not just WVM. Just now labour is only talking to the few, actually in electoral terms the very few.The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
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Privy Council - a council for Outhouses?watford30 said:
'Disingenuous' is the word that sprang to mind whilst watching that interview.Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy
After 30 years as an MP, one would hope that Corbyn knew full well what was expected of the Party Leader, and as a member of the Privy Council. Failing that he's either incredibly stupid, or simply lazy.
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He just needs to bend the knee. What a dick.Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy0 -
Jezza is obviously over WVM, what with his apparent close links to La Thornberry.The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
(EDIT: NOT CLOSE LINKS IN THAT WAY. ARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH. EEEEEUUUUUUWW)0 -
The CD2E WVM isn't really white working class. He's really lower middle class, at most. But in any case, most polices and aims are centred to appealing to the WVM. They are seen as the main electoral group to appeal to.JEO said:
You're arguing that politics currently is over catered to the interests of the white working class?The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
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Nine million people at the last count.Anorak said:
But what migrant human in their right mind would want to end up in the KSA?Cyclefree said:
Yeah: they should be told to take the migrants instead.Plato_Says said:I see the Saudis have offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. That's an offer to refuse.
taffys said:Out of 1700 British mosques, just 2 teach modernist versions of Islam:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/
Utterly depressing.
There is a lot of contradictory information about how many Syrians. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrians_in_Saudi_Arabia0 -
Maybe the WVM is important because of the dynamics of societal change. They are not the innovators or the first adopters, but winning them over gives societal change that critical mass to turn it from 'change' to 'the new culture'? Just a guess.The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
To wit, see one of my favorite TED talks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXMnDG3QzxE0 -
@chrisshipitv: Just been chatting to Jack Straw. His advice to Jeremy Corbyn Privy Council position from Queen? 'Get on your knees' http://t.co/YyeHuykAzg0
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I wish there was a 'like' button.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Asian Van Man!The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
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What happens next is probably that someone tries to make the case that it's only really Liz who is popular, not the concept, and somehow manages to give the impression that they are looking forward to her death.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about Tories are reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?0 -
The Privy Council stuff is overdone IMO. I don't like Corbyn but it's well known he's a republican and it's fair enough for him to have some quibbles about what's involved. It's not the substance that matters. It's the fact that the stories about him are about trivial matters ("will he kneel?" "He can't do his buttons up.") rather than about him and his political vision.Plato_Says said:I still can't believe this has really happened, and it's endless - we're on Day 5.
Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy
I also think his appeal - "free money for all / attack the rich" - is more popular with some than we might suppose. Countering it will take a little more skill than simply assuming that people will see his policies to be obvious nonsense. See, for instance, this - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11871261/Why-should-I-pay-for-Jeremy-Corbyns-friend-Claire-to-have-so-many-children-tax-credits-PMQs.html
People will always squeal when money is taken away even if they should never have been given it in the first place. Remember all the wailing that went on here when child benefit was taken away from higher rate tax payers. You'd have thought - from reading some posts - that Herod was at large in the country.
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Are you excluding pensioners thenThe_Apocalypse said:
The CD2E WVM isn't really white working class. He's really lower middle class, at most. But in any case, most polices and aims are centred to appealing to the WVM. They are seen as the main electoral group to appeal to.JEO said:
You're arguing that politics currently is over catered to the interests of the white working class?The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
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The Establishment moves in Mysterious Ways.Scott_P said:@chrisshipitv: Just been chatting to Jack Straw. His advice to Jeremy Corbyn Privy Council position from Queen? 'Get on your knees' http://t.co/YyeHuykAzg
If you want to kiss the sky
Better learn how to kneel (on your knees boy!)0 -
How much was he charging for this advice?Scott_P said:@chrisshipitv: Just been chatting to Jack Straw. His advice to Jeremy Corbyn Privy Council position from Queen? 'Get on your knees' http://t.co/YyeHuykAzg
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Maybe when writing a speech. When developing policy, they are the last people considered.The_Apocalypse said:
The CD2E WVM isn't really white working class. He's really lower middle class, at most. But in any case, most polices and aims are centred to appealing to the WVM. They are seen as the main electoral group to appeal to.JEO said:
You're arguing that politics currently is over catered to the interests of the white working class?The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
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And of course the headlines will write themselves. It's already set up: either we will get 'Labour Shame as Corbo Snubs Her Majesty!' or 'Labour grandees force Corbyn to kneel to Her Maj'.Tissue_Price said:What happens next is probably that someone tries to make the case that it's only really Liz who is popular, not the concept, and somehow manages to give the impression that they are looking forward to her death.
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Quite. Whether you like it or not, pensioners have been one of the major beneficiaries of government policy - and not just over the last parliament - because they get out and vote and the politicians love it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you excluding pensioners thenThe_Apocalypse said:
The CD2E WVM isn't really white working class. He's really lower middle class, at most. But in any case, most polices and aims are centred to appealing to the WVM. They are seen as the main electoral group to appeal to.JEO said:
You're arguing that politics currently is over catered to the interests of the white working class?The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
As for whether plumbers and electricians are "lower middle class" - I imagine they mostly see themselves as "skilled working class". There is more to class identity than looking at what income decile you lie in. (Surveys consistently seem to find some high-earners refer to themselves as "working class", perhaps because of family background, or because they they do not view their source of income as a "profession". There are plenty of millionaires running small construction firms who would tick the "working class" box.)0 -
And we also have this table:MyBurningEars said:
Nine million people at the last count.Anorak said:
But what migrant human in their right mind would want to end up in the KSA?Cyclefree said:
Yeah: they should be told to take the migrants instead.Plato_Says said:I see the Saudis have offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. That's an offer to refuse.
taffys said:Out of 1700 British mosques, just 2 teach modernist versions of Islam:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/
Utterly depressing.
There is a lot of contradictory information about how many Syrians. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrians_in_Saudi_Arabia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War0 -
''When developing policy, they are the last people considered. ''
The point about WVM is he is both very numerous and not tribal. His vote is up for grabs. Its worth trying to pitch to him.
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Indeed, I don't know the actual figures, but visiting KSA you'd get the impression that there are more migrants than natives in the country.MyBurningEars said:
Nine million people at the last count.Anorak said:
But what migrant human in their right mind would want to end up in the KSA?Cyclefree said:
Yeah: they should be told to take the migrants instead.Plato_Says said:I see the Saudis have offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. That's an offer to refuse.
taffys said:Out of 1700 British mosques, just 2 teach modernist versions of Islam:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/
Utterly depressing.
There is a lot of contradictory information about how many Syrians. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrians_in_Saudi_Arabia0 -
This is precisely the stupid stuff that stuck to EdM almost instantly.
Just off the top of my head:
- not on his child's birth certificate, then getting shamed into it
- not marrying the mother of his children, then getting pushed into it
- talking about being good at Rubik's Cubes
- wearing suits that looked like they belonged to his dad
- knifing his brother
Lot of those impressions stuck in his overall weird, unsuitable to be PM/boy doing a man's job, ruthless in a not very nice way.
Very hard to overcome once the impression is set, precisely because the prism now looks for more of the same.Richard_Nabavi said:
And of course the headlines will write themselves. It's already set up: either we will get 'Labour Shame as Corbo Snubs Her Majesty!' or 'Labour grandees force Corbyn to kneel to Her Maj'.Tissue_Price said:What happens next is probably that someone tries to make the case that it's only really Liz who is popular, not the concept, and somehow manages to give the impression that they are looking forward to her death.
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It could well be a method for dealing with sh**sSunil_Prasannan said:
Privy Council - a council for Outhouses?watford30 said:
'Disingenuous' is the word that sprang to mind whilst watching that interview.Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy
After 30 years as an MP, one would hope that Corbyn knew full well what was expected of the Party Leader, and as a member of the Privy Council. Failing that he's either incredibly stupid, or simply lazy.0 -
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Syrian_refugees_in_the_Middle_East_map_en.svgMTimT said:
Indeed, I don't know the actual figures, but visiting KSA you'd get the impression that there are more migrants than natives in the country.MyBurningEars said:
Nine million people at the last count.Anorak said:
But what migrant human in their right mind would want to end up in the KSA?Cyclefree said:
Yeah: they should be told to take the migrants instead.Plato_Says said:I see the Saudis have offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. That's an offer to refuse.
taffys said:Out of 1700 British mosques, just 2 teach modernist versions of Islam:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/
Utterly depressing.
There is a lot of contradictory information about how many Syrians. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrians_in_Saudi_Arabia0 -
If Corbyn decides that the leadership just isn't worth what he is experiencing, he could choose to martyr himself on the altar of the monarchy.Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy
That could see your 70% support slip a bit and start a debate the Establishment has tried very, very hard to avoid.0 -
No relevance to what I said though. The question was asked 'what human in their right mind would want to end up in KSA'? The answer is that many with very good other prospects choose voluntarily to seek a life in the Kingdom. Money is the draw.Sunil_Prasannan said:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Syrian_refugees_in_the_Middle_East_map_en.svgMTimT said:
Indeed, I don't know the actual figures, but visiting KSA you'd get the impression that there are more migrants than natives in the country.MyBurningEars said:
Nine million people at the last count.Anorak said:
But what migrant human in their right mind would want to end up in the KSA?Cyclefree said:
Yeah: they should be told to take the migrants instead.Plato_Says said:I see the Saudis have offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. That's an offer to refuse.
taffys said:Out of 1700 British mosques, just 2 teach modernist versions of Islam:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/
Utterly depressing.
There is a lot of contradictory information about how many Syrians. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrians_in_Saudi_Arabia0 -
Labour were on 40% when Miliband was made leader, whilst they are probably on around 30% now so that could explain some of the gap between the two, assuming people largely vote along partisan lines in these polls.0
-
If you missed Jezza with Laura K intv http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-342726360
-
Thanks for the replies re WVM.
@Sunil_Prasannan Apparently, the Asian Mondeo Man is set to be the next key demographic for political parties to win over!
@JEO Who do you think are the main group considered when it comes to polices?
@Big_G_NorthWales Well, alongside pensioners.
@MTimT Hmmm, good point. Thanks for the link (I do quite like TED talks as well!) Will give it a watch.0 -
Corbo wants to reform the privvy council but not welfare ?0
-
From the Guardian live feed:
"Interior minister Thomas de Maizière is planning huge cuts to Germany’s benefits for asylum seekers in a new fast-tracked bill, a copy of which was leaked to the news agency AFP on Thursday.
The draft bill, dated Monday, would see refugees who have travelled to Germany via other EU countries - and should therefore be under their jurisdiction, according to the Dublin rules - refused the automatic benefits allowed under Germany’s asylum seeker law. They will only be given a travel ticket and provisions, the agency said.
In addition, refugees who cannot be deported because they don’t have passports and refuse to give information on their country of origin will be refused the right to work and will lose social benefits.
Any asylum seekers on Germany’s list of “safe countries of origin” - chiefly Balkan countries - would also be barred from work and from any education or training schemes.
The asylum seekers’ campaign group Pro Asyl criticized the plan heavily. “The government’s draft law will make partition, deterrence, and homelessness all part of the programme,” the group said in a statement released on its website."
So much for refugees welcome!0 -
In Corbyn's case, even more than in Ed's, the impression is correct. He does hate the monarchy as an institution. He does believe he shouldn't kneel to Her Majesty, or sing the national anthem. He is chair of Stop the War, with all its barmy and in some cases offensive positions. He does sympathise with lots of groups who are anathema to most voters. His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott. He is more at home at a futile North London demonstration in favour of oppressed Nicaraguan sex-workers than at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain. He doesn't like wearing a suit or doing up his tie properly. He does espouse completely loony economic policies. He is anti-American and anti-Israeli. He has appointed as his Shadow Chancellor an extreme IRA-sympathiser who has expressed hateful views about murderers.Plato_Says said:Very hard to overcome once the impression is set, precisely because the prism now looks for more of the same.
That's what he is, and to be fair to him he's not trying to hide any of it. All the fuss over the past few days has entirely been the press making the public more aware of his views and character. Some people may like what they see, but you don't need a pollster to tell you that most won't.0 -
"His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott."Richard_Nabavi said:
In Corbyn's case, even more than in Ed's, the impression is correct. He does hate the monarchy as an institution. He does believe he shouldn't kneel to Her Majesty, or sing the national anthem. He is chair of Stop the War, with all its barmy and in some cases offensive positions. He does sympathise with lots of groups who are anathema to most voters. His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott. He is more at home at a futile North London demonstration in favour of oppressed Nicaraguan sex-workers than at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain. He doesn't like wearing a suit or doing up his tie properly. He does espouse completely loony economic policies. He is anti-American and anti-Israeli. He has appointed as his Shadow Chancellor an extreme IRA-sympathiser who has expressed hateful views about murderers.Plato_Says said:Very hard to overcome once the impression is set, precisely because the prism now looks for more of the same.
That's what he is, and to be fair to him he's not trying to hide any of it. All the fuss over the past few days has entirely been the press making the public more aware of his views and character. Some people may like what they see, but you don't need a pollster to tell you that most won't.
Brilliant!0 -
The main group considered is usually the professional middle class because that's where most MPs come from and who they associate with. The second group is women, who are specifically assessed as what effect policy has on them. The third group is ethnic minorities because it allows professional middle class politicians to show they are 'enlightened'.The_Apocalypse said:Thanks for the replies re WVM.
@Sunil_Prasannan Apparently, the Asian Mondeo Man is set to be the next key demographic for political parties to win over!
@JEO Who do you think are the main group considered when it comes to polices?
@Big_G_NorthWales Well, alongside pensioners.
@MTimT Hmmm, good point. Thanks for the link (I do quite like TED talks as well!) Will give it a watch.0 -
The three are not mutually exclusive. One could make a good case for the idea that Corbyn is all three.watford30 said:
"... he's either incredibly stupid, lazy or just an areshole.Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy0 -
Dair said:
If Corbyn decides that the leadership just isn't worth what he is experiencing, he could choose to martyr himself on the altar of the monarchy.Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy
That could see your 70% support slip a bit and start a debate the Establishment has tried very, very hard to avoid.
And most voters would laugh and say "the man's an idiot"
0 -
This is the best post I've seen on this website for weeks. An excellent analysis.Richard_Nabavi said:
In Corbyn's case, even more than in Ed's, the impression is correct. He does hate the monarchy as an institution. He does believe he shouldn't kneel to Her Majesty, or sing the national anthem. He is chair of Stop the War, with all its barmy and in some cases offensive positions. He does sympathise with lots of groups who are anathema to most voters. His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott. He is more at home at a futile North London demonstration in favour of oppressed Nicaraguan sex-workers than at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain. He doesn't like wearing a suit or doing up his tie properly. He does espouse completely loony economic policies. He is anti-American and anti-Israeli. He has appointed as his Shadow Chancellor an extreme IRA-sympathiser who has expressed hateful views about murderers.Plato_Says said:Very hard to overcome once the impression is set, precisely because the prism now looks for more of the same.
That's what he is, and to be fair to him he's not trying to hide any of it. All the fuss over the past few days has entirely been the press making the public more aware of his views and character. Some people may like what they see, but you don't need a pollster to tell you that most won't.0 -
There are. And even more so in UAE.MTimT said:
Indeed, I don't know the actual figures, but visiting KSA you'd get the impression that there are more migrants than natives in the country.MyBurningEars said:
Nine million people at the last count.Anorak said:
But what migrant human in their right mind would want to end up in the KSA?Cyclefree said:
Yeah: they should be told to take the migrants instead.Plato_Says said:I see the Saudis have offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. That's an offer to refuse.
taffys said:Out of 1700 British mosques, just 2 teach modernist versions of Islam:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/
Utterly depressing.
There is a lot of contradictory information about how many Syrians. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrians_in_Saudi_Arabia0 -
One of the risks of endlessly going on about essentially trivial Corbyn stories (lots of men are badly dressed, most in fact - I know I'm going to regret this) is that it will look like bullying. And then there could be sympathy for the one being bullied. There are plenty of substantive things to criticise him for without going OTT over a mismatched suit.0
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Most pensioners think of themselves as "OAPs"... We're both classless and classy...MyBurningEars said:
Quite. Whether you like it or not, pensioners have been one of the major beneficiaries of government policy - and not just over the last parliament - because they get out and vote and the politicians love it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you excluding pensioners thenThe_Apocalypse said:
The CD2E WVM isn't really white working class. He's really lower middle class, at most. But in any case, most polices and aims are centred to appealing to the WVM. They are seen as the main electoral group to appeal to.JEO said:
You're arguing that politics currently is over catered to the interests of the white working class?The_Apocalypse said:
There is a political obsession with the WVM. Politics is supposed to be a agent which can improve the lives of everyone, and have something to say for all, not just the WVM.Big_G_NorthWales said:There is such an inevitability about all this. He simply can only appeal to the far left and has nothing to say to the white van man (other than more migrants), the millions of ordinary people striving for their families, the aspiration of most, and the fears of everyone about their families security and safety. He is quite simply a disaster for labour and the conservatives just need to concentrate on being a competent government, which they are, and let the whole shooting match implode over the next few months as I doubt this will continue for years
As for whether plumbers and electricians are "lower middle class" - I imagine they mostly see themselves as "skilled working class". There is more to class identity than looking at what income decile you lie in. (Surveys consistently seem to find some high-earners refer to themselves as "working class", perhaps because of family background, or because they they do not view their source of income as a "profession". There are plenty of millionaires running small construction firms who would tick the "working class" box.)0 -
Hell, I should know. My dad worked on the design of the (then) new Riyadh Airport between 1982-1984. He was over there in six-month stints, only coming home during Christmas and during the Summer.MTimT said:
No relevance to what I said though. The question was asked 'what human in their right mind would want to end up in KSA'? The answer is that many with very good other prospects choose voluntarily to seek a life in the Kingdom. Money is the draw.Sunil_Prasannan said:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Syrian_refugees_in_the_Middle_East_map_en.svgMTimT said:
Indeed, I don't know the actual figures, but visiting KSA you'd get the impression that there are more migrants than natives in the country.MyBurningEars said:
Nine million people at the last count.Anorak said:
But what migrant human in their right mind would want to end up in the KSA?Cyclefree said:
Yeah: they should be told to take the migrants instead.Plato_Says said:I see the Saudis have offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. That's an offer to refuse.
taffys said:Out of 1700 British mosques, just 2 teach modernist versions of Islam:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/
Utterly depressing.
There is a lot of contradictory information about how many Syrians. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrians_in_Saudi_Arabia
0 -
We really do need the like button back. Damn good post, Msr Le Marquis. Labour are about as relevant to serious political discourse at the moment as the mewings of my cat.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?0 -
Bearing in mind Ms Abbot was 40 years younger at the time that actually does sound like fun!isam said:
"His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott."Richard_Nabavi said:
In Corbyn's case, even more than in Ed's, the impression is correct. He does hate the monarchy as an institution. He does believe he shouldn't kneel to Her Majesty, or sing the national anthem. He is chair of Stop the War, with all its barmy and in some cases offensive positions. He does sympathise with lots of groups who are anathema to most voters. His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott. He is more at home at a futile North London demonstration in favour of oppressed Nicaraguan sex-workers than at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain. He doesn't like wearing a suit or doing up his tie properly. He does espouse completely loony economic policies. He is anti-American and anti-Israeli. He has appointed as his Shadow Chancellor an extreme IRA-sympathiser who has expressed hateful views about murderers.Plato_Says said:Very hard to overcome once the impression is set, precisely because the prism now looks for more of the same.
That's what he is, and to be fair to him he's not trying to hide any of it. All the fuss over the past few days has entirely been the press making the public more aware of his views and character. Some people may like what they see, but you don't need a pollster to tell you that most won't.
Brilliant!0 -
HurstLlama said:
We really do need the like button back. Damn good post, Msr Le Marquis. Labour are about as relevant to serious political discourse at the moment as the mewings of my cat.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?
And what does your cat think of the Labour party?
0 -
Except he maaged to look msarter for his first day at the despatch box than he did for a memorial service.Cyclefree said:One of the risks of endlessly going on about essentially trivial Corbyn stories (lots of men are badly dressed, most in fact - I know I'm going to regret this) is that it will look like bullying. And then there could be sympathy for the one being bullied. There are plenty of substantive things to criticise him for without going OTT over a mismatched suit.
So he is not always totally scruffy, only when honouring the war dead...
That is not a good look, in either sense0 -
Wonderful.
'Chief Economic Adviser' Professor of Political Economy Richard Murphy interviewed on the Daily Politics.
Not to be missed. Segment on Corbynomics at 10:00. Interview at 12:15.
For some reason accusing Andrew Neil of peddling fictions does not seem to be a good tactic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06chkm8/daily-politics-17092015
0 -
At the risk of getting into a petty argument.. I am not having that!Scott_P said:
Except he maaged to look msarter for his first day at the despatch box than he did for a memorial service.Cyclefree said:One of the risks of endlessly going on about essentially trivial Corbyn stories (lots of men are badly dressed, most in fact - I know I'm going to regret this) is that it will look like bullying. And then there could be sympathy for the one being bullied. There are plenty of substantive things to criticise him for without going OTT over a mismatched suit.
So he is not always totally scruffy, only when honouring the war dead...
That is not a good look, in either sense
He looked far smarter at St Pauls than at PMQ's in my opinion... although I understand fashion taste is subjective
I say this as the best dressed man at a PB meet once (low bar)0 -
He is fine and smart enough to achieve his objective(s) which I suspect do not include PM.Scott_P said:
Except he maaged to look msarter for his first day at the despatch box than he did for a memorial service.Cyclefree said:One of the risks of endlessly going on about essentially trivial Corbyn stories (lots of men are badly dressed, most in fact - I know I'm going to regret this) is that it will look like bullying. And then there could be sympathy for the one being bullied. There are plenty of substantive things to criticise him for without going OTT over a mismatched suit.
So he is not always totally scruffy, only when honouring the war dead...
That is not a good look, in either sense0 -
I am not too sure, Mr. Hopkins, he is welsh, you see, and so sometimes difficult to understand. However, based on his attitude to property rights, which can be summed by "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too", I think he might quite approve of some of the Labour ideas.MarkHopkins said:HurstLlama said:
We really do need the like button back. Damn good post, Msr Le Marquis. Labour are about as relevant to serious political discourse at the moment as the mewings of my cat.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?
And what does your cat think of the Labour party?0 -
Forget the idiot Corbyn. He is a sideshow, a smokescreen blocking off the view of one of the most extraordinary and sweeping political about-turns any of us have ever seen. Literally millions have had their lives turned upside down.GarethoftheVale2 said:From the Guardian live feed:
"Interior minister Thomas de Maizière is planning huge cuts to Germany’s benefits for asylum seekers in a new fast-tracked bill, a copy of which was leaked to the news agency AFP on Thursday.
The draft bill, dated Monday, would see refugees who have travelled to Germany via other EU countries - and should therefore be under their jurisdiction, according to the Dublin rules - refused the automatic benefits allowed under Germany’s asylum seeker law. They will only be given a travel ticket and provisions, the agency said.
In addition, refugees who cannot be deported because they don’t have passports and refuse to give information on their country of origin will be refused the right to work and will lose social benefits.
Any asylum seekers on Germany’s list of “safe countries of origin” - chiefly Balkan countries - would also be barred from work and from any education or training schemes.
The asylum seekers’ campaign group Pro Asyl criticized the plan heavily. “The government’s draft law will make partition, deterrence, and homelessness all part of the programme,” the group said in a statement released on its website."
So much for refugees welcome!
"Welcome to Germany. Now fuck off."0 -
Thinks Claws 4 should be reinstated!MarkHopkins said:HurstLlama said:
We really do need the like button back. Damn good post, Msr Le Marquis. Labour are about as relevant to serious political discourse at the moment as the mewings of my cat.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?
And what does your cat think of the Labour party?0 -
@MrNabavi - That's what he is, and to be fair to him he's not trying to hide any of it.
Exactly, and this should come as no surprise to anyone. – Of course over the coming months he’ll give a little here and a bit there as needs be, but the fundamentals will never change.
Now all that is left is for the electorate to decide whether this is the kind of man they want representing them and the country as their Prime Minister.0 -
Imagine a carefree motor cycle tour of the DDR, with Diane Abbott, if it had taken place someone will now be looking for Staasi reports on their trip.0
-
Since when is he a Professor of Political Economy? He's a retired accountant. (Or so I thought.)MattW said:Wonderful.
'Chief Economic Adviser' Professor of Political Economy Richard Murphy interviewed on the Daily Politics.
Not to be missed. Segment on Corbynomics at 10:00. Interview at 12:15.
For some reason accusing Andrew Neil of peddling fictions does not seem to be a good tactic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06chkm8/daily-politics-170920150 -
MarqueeMark,
Seriously what the hell were the Germans thinking? They literally sent out a big message that we needed to be welcoming to migrants, we would solve the problem by sharing them out among the EU, and that was what being European was all about.
Then the numbers coming surge (surprise, surprise) and they realise they can't take them all. What were they expecting to happen? Did they put no forethought into it at all?0 -
Really?foxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind Ms Abbot was 40 years younger at the time that actually does sound like fun!isam said:
"His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott."Richard_Nabavi said:
In Corbyn's case, even more than in Ed's, the impression is correct. He does hate the monarchy as an institution. He does believe he shouldn't kneel to Her Majesty, or sing the national anthem. He is chair of Stop the War, with all its barmy and in some cases offensive positions. He does sympathise with lots of groups who are anathema to most voters. His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott. He is more at home at a futile North London demonstration in favour of oppressed Nicaraguan sex-workers than at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain. He doesn't like wearing a suit or doing up his tie properly. He does espouse completely loony economic policies. He is anti-American and anti-Israeli. He has appointed as his Shadow Chancellor an extreme IRA-sympathiser who has expressed hateful views about murderers.Plato_Says said:Very hard to overcome once the impression is set, precisely because the prism now looks for more of the same.
That's what he is, and to be fair to him he's not trying to hide any of it. All the fuss over the past few days has entirely been the press making the public more aware of his views and character. Some people may like what they see, but you don't need a pollster to tell you that most won't.
Brilliant!
http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-03/enhanced/webdr04/21/8/grid-cell-14382-1395406040-11.jpg0 -
Idiot Merkel ?MarqueeMark said:
Forget the idiot Corbyn. He is a sideshow, a smokescreen blocking off the view of one of the most extraordinary and sweeping political about-turns any of us have ever seen. Literally millions have had their lives turned upside down.GarethoftheVale2 said:From the Guardian live feed:
"Interior minister Thomas de Maizière is planning huge cuts to Germany’s benefits for asylum seekers in a new fast-tracked bill, a copy of which was leaked to the news agency AFP on Thursday.
The draft bill, dated Monday, would see refugees who have travelled to Germany via other EU countries - and should therefore be under their jurisdiction, according to the Dublin rules - refused the automatic benefits allowed under Germany’s asylum seeker law. They will only be given a travel ticket and provisions, the agency said.
In addition, refugees who cannot be deported because they don’t have passports and refuse to give information on their country of origin will be refused the right to work and will lose social benefits.
Any asylum seekers on Germany’s list of “safe countries of origin” - chiefly Balkan countries - would also be barred from work and from any education or training schemes.
The asylum seekers’ campaign group Pro Asyl criticized the plan heavily. “The government’s draft law will make partition, deterrence, and homelessness all part of the programme,” the group said in a statement released on its website."
So much for refugees welcome!
"Welcome to Germany. Now fuck off."0 -
Well, she was a lot slimmerJEO said:
Really?foxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind Ms Abbot was 40 years younger at the time that actually does sound like fun!isam said:
"His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott."Richard_Nabavi said:
In Corbyn's case, even more than in Ed's, the impression is correct. He does hate the monarchy as an institution. He does believe he shouldn't kneel to Her Majesty, or sing the national anthem. He is chair of Stop the War, with all its barmy and in some cases offensive positions. He does sympathise with lots of groups who are anathema to most voters. His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott. He is more at home at a futile North London demonstration in favour of oppressed Nicaraguan sex-workers than at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain. He doesn't like wearing a suit or doing up his tie properly. He does espouse completely loony economic policies. He is anti-American and anti-Israeli. He has appointed as his Shadow Chancellor an extreme IRA-sympathiser who has expressed hateful views about murderers.Plato_Says said:Very hard to overcome once the impression is set, precisely because the prism now looks for more of the same.
That's what he is, and to be fair to him he's not trying to hide any of it. All the fuss over the past few days has entirely been the press making the public more aware of his views and character. Some people may like what they see, but you don't need a pollster to tell you that most won't.
Brilliant!
http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-03/enhanced/webdr04/21/8/grid-cell-14382-1395406040-11.jpg 0 -
HurstLlama said:
I am not too sure, Mr. Hopkins, he is welsh, you see, and so sometimes difficult to understand. However, based on his attitude to property rights, which can be summed by "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too", I think he might quite approve of some of the Labour ideas.MarkHopkins said:HurstLlama said:
We really do need the like button back. Damn good post, Msr Le Marquis. Labour are about as relevant to serious political discourse at the moment as the mewings of my cat.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?
And what does your cat think of the Labour party?
It sounds like you should have got him a vote in the Labour Leader election.0 -
Current Shadow Cabinet singing about Corbyn circa 1978.. Di on lead vocalsJEO said:
Really?foxinsoxuk said:
Bearing in mind Ms Abbot was 40 years younger at the time that actually does sound like fun!isam said:
"His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott."Richard_Nabavi said:
In Corbyn's case, even more than in Ed's, the impression is correct. He does hate the monarchy as an institution. He does believe he shouldn't kneel to Her Majesty, or sing the national anthem. He is chair of Stop the War, with all its barmy and in some cases offensive positions. He does sympathise with lots of groups who are anathema to most voters. His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott. He is more at home at a futile North London demonstration in favour of oppressed Nicaraguan sex-workers than at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain. He doesn't like wearing a suit or doing up his tie properly. He does espouse completely loony economic policies. He is anti-American and anti-Israeli. He has appointed as his Shadow Chancellor an extreme IRA-sympathiser who has expressed hateful views about murderers.Plato_Says said:Very hard to overcome once the impression is set, precisely because the prism now looks for more of the same.
That's what he is, and to be fair to him he's not trying to hide any of it. All the fuss over the past few days has entirely been the press making the public more aware of his views and character. Some people may like what they see, but you don't need a pollster to tell you that most won't.
Brilliant!
http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-03/enhanced/webdr04/21/8/grid-cell-14382-1395406040-11.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8vxGmPfuHQ0 -
It is truly one of the most baffling episodes in European history, certainly since the fall of the Wall. It was so utterly predictable. It could only have one outcome - the headlong rush, as Africa and Asia hurtled towards Germany.JEO said:MarqueeMark,
Seriously what the hell were the Germans thinking? They literally sent out a big message that we needed to be welcoming to migrants, we would solve the problem by sharing them out among the EU, and that was what being European was all about.
Then the numbers coming surge (surprise, surprise) and they realise they can't take them all. What were they expecting to happen? Did they put no forethought into it at all?
And then the "Oh Mein Fucking Gott!!" realisation that Africa and Asia were hurtling towards Germany.
With just time for a slap-stick interlude whilst the Germans got all high and mighty with the Hungarian PM. For Stating the Bleeding Obvious.
Tragi-comedy. It must be what passes for humour in Germany.0 -
50 years or so after an empire finishes it seems politicians like to self flagellate by ruining their country for people who weren't even born at the timeJEO said:MarqueeMark,
Seriously what the hell were the Germans thinking? They literally sent out a big message that we needed to be welcoming to migrants, we would solve the problem by sharing them out among the EU, and that was what being European was all about.
Then the numbers coming surge (surprise, surprise) and they realise they can't take them all. What were they expecting to happen? Did they put no forethought into it at all?0 -
plus he's just as charmless and chippy as his boss.Cyclefree said:
Since when is he a Professor of Political Economy? He's a retired accountant. (Or so I thought.)MattW said:Wonderful.
'Chief Economic Adviser' Professor of Political Economy Richard Murphy interviewed on the Daily Politics.
Not to be missed. Segment on Corbynomics at 10:00. Interview at 12:15.
For some reason accusing Andrew Neil of peddling fictions does not seem to be a good tactic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06chkm8/daily-politics-170920150 -
In the absence of the button, have a virtual LIKE.HurstLlama said:
I am not too sure, Mr. Hopkins, he is welsh, you see, and so sometimes difficult to understand. However, based on his attitude to property rights, which can be summed by "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too", I think he might quite approve of some of the Labour ideas.MarkHopkins said:HurstLlama said:
We really do need the like button back. Damn good post, Msr Le Marquis. Labour are about as relevant to serious political discourse at the moment as the mewings of my cat.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?
And what does your cat think of the Labour party?0 -
Mr Llama, you have made an unconscionable mistake, and one most unlike you.HurstLlama said:
I am not too sure, Mr. Hopkins, he is welsh, you see, and so sometimes difficult to understand. However, based on his attitude to property rights, which can be summed by "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too", I think he might quite approve of some of the Labour ideas.MarkHopkins said:HurstLlama said:
We really do need the like button back. Damn good post, Msr Le Marquis. Labour are about as relevant to serious political discourse at the moment as the mewings of my cat.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?
And what does your cat think of the Labour party?
Approving of "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too" means he is a Lib Dem.
Labour would be : "My chicken is mine, your chicken is mine, and when we run out of chicken we'll print more chicken".0 -
@Jack_Blanchard_: Official - Labour will campaign for Britain to stay in Europe. Jeremy Corbyn just sent this email to every Labour MP: http://t.co/m7oVbjt1Du0
-
He did only get 2 Es. He's not the sharpest knife in the draw.brokenwheel said:
What I find most incredulous is Corbyn's claim not to have been aware. But no, we're told by supporters he's genuine!Plato_Says said:I still can't believe this has really happened, and it's endless - we're on Day 5.
Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy
Genuine asshat0 -
I might be wrong, but didn't Corbyn say during an interview the other day that Labour would wait for the results of Cameron renegotiation before making any decision?Scott_P said:@Jack_Blanchard_: Official - Labour will campaign for Britain to stay in Europe. Jeremy Corbyn just sent this email to every Labour MP: http://t.co/m7oVbjt1Du
0 -
I feel like Corbyn has just backstabbed all of the eurosceptic Labour vote he swept up and just compromised one of his core principles worse than Blair pretending to be left-wing.Scott_P said:@Jack_Blanchard_: Official - Labour will campaign for Britain to stay in Europe. Jeremy Corbyn just sent this email to every Labour MP: http://t.co/m7oVbjt1Du
EDIT: Also Chuka Umunna out of the cabinet for no reason now apparently...0 -
I watched his LauraK intv earlier and he comes across as rather superior, irritable and that it's almost below him to talk to anyone who isn't a like-mind.
The bit about joining the PC was just painful, as was being evasive over GSTQ. I came away actively disliking him.
I didn't have a personal view of him before - just really didn't think much of his politics/friends. But he did himself no favours on charisma front.Richard_Nabavi said:
In Corbyn's case, even more than in Ed's, the impression is correct. He does hate the monarchy as an institution. He does believe he shouldn't kneel to Her Majesty, or sing the national anthem. He is chair of Stop the War, with all its barmy and in some cases offensive positions. He does sympathise with lots of groups who are anathema to most voters. His idea of a fun holiday was a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Diane Abbott. He is more at home at a futile North London demonstration in favour of oppressed Nicaraguan sex-workers than at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain. He doesn't like wearing a suit or doing up his tie properly. He does espouse completely loony economic policies. He is anti-American and anti-Israeli. He has appointed as his Shadow Chancellor an extreme IRA-sympathiser who has expressed hateful views about murderers.Plato_Says said:Very hard to overcome once the impression is set, precisely because the prism now looks for more of the same.
That's what he is, and to be fair to him he's not trying to hide any of it. All the fuss over the past few days has entirely been the press making the public more aware of his views and character. Some people may like what they see, but you don't need a pollster to tell you that most won't.0 -
Since September 8th Murph is 0.2 of a Professor of Practice in International Political Economy in the Department of International Politics at City University.Cyclefree said:
Since when is he a Professor of Political Economy? He's a retired accountant. (Or so I thought.)MattW said:Wonderful.
'Chief Economic Adviser' Professor of Political Economy Richard Murphy interviewed on the Daily Politics.
Not to be missed. Segment on Corbynomics at 10:00. Interview at 12:15.
For some reason accusing Andrew Neil of peddling fictions does not seem to be a good tactic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06chkm8/daily-politics-17092015
http://www.city.ac.uk/arts-social-sciences/modules/economics-of-the-real-world
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/09/08/prof-murphy/
(velvet gloves off)
He's also a pompous, mirthless, mathless asshat, so it will be interesting to watch. Allegedly.
(velvet gloves on)
The Guido version of the interview is snippets. Watch the whole thing - priceless.0 -
We must underestimate the guilt Germany still feels for you know what.
The refugee thing really is a sort of national attempt at self immolation.0 -
That article is spot on.Cyclefree said:
The Privy Council stuff is overdone IMO. I don't like Corbyn but it's well known he's a republican and it's fair enough for him to have some quibbles about what's involved. It's not the substance that matters. It's the fact that the stories about him are about trivial matters ("will he kneel?" "He can't do his buttons up.") rather than about him and his political vision.Plato_Says said:I still can't believe this has really happened, and it's endless - we're on Day 5.
Richard_Nabavi said:More fish being put into a barrel for the press to shoot at:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-may-push-for-privy-council-changes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/privy-council-jeremy-corbyn-monarchy-democracy
I also think his appeal - "free money for all / attack the rich" - is more popular with some than we might suppose. Countering it will take a little more skill than simply assuming that people will see his policies to be obvious nonsense. See, for instance, this - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11871261/Why-should-I-pay-for-Jeremy-Corbyns-friend-Claire-to-have-so-many-children-tax-credits-PMQs.html
People will always squeal when money is taken away even if they should never have been given it in the first place. Remember all the wailing that went on here when child benefit was taken away from higher rate tax payers. You'd have thought - from reading some posts - that Herod was at large in the country.
It needs to be emphasised again and again and again - tax credits are not primarily about supporting people with low pay - they are about supporting people with children.
The basics:
- Single person earning £15k - gets zero tax credits (today, before the cuts). Zero.
- Single person with two children earning £32k - gets tax credits.
Stop then and think. If both parents (with two children) are present and both earning - even if they both earn just £16,500 (for total family earnings of £33k) - they'll get zero tax credits as well!
(The cut-off for a family with two children is just under £33k).
So without children you get nothing (unless on very low earnings - about £14k downwards).
Couples together with only up to two children also get nothing if both are earning and combined get £33k - still a low salary - only £16,500 each.
And huge tax credits are paid to single earners with children, even on average salaries - and people earning much more with large numbers of children (income cut-off point rises with every extra child).0 -
@iainmartin1: One of the few things Corbyn got right was not to give Cameron a blank cheque on EU. He's just done so.
@JohnRentoul: He might as well just go and join the Tories @iainmartin10 -
Mea culpa, Mr Jessop. However, I am not too sure about living with a Lib Dem cat. I'll have to try and talk to him.JosiasJessop said:
Mr Llama, you have made an unconscionable mistake, and one most unlike you.HurstLlama said:
I am not too sure, Mr. Hopkins, he is welsh, you see, and so sometimes difficult to understand. However, based on his attitude to property rights, which can be summed by "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too", I think he might quite approve of some of the Labour ideas.MarkHopkins said:HurstLlama said:
We really do need the like button back. Damn good post, Msr Le Marquis. Labour are about as relevant to serious political discourse at the moment as the mewings of my cat.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?
And what does your cat think of the Labour party?
Approving of "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too" means he is a Lib Dem.
Labour would be : "My chicken is mine, your chicken is mine, and when we run out of chicken we'll print more chicken".
I am fairly sure, though, that his version of printing more chicken means I should just provide it (i.e. it's someone else's job to actually earn the cash to pay for his benefits) - doesn't that make him more Labour than Lib Dem?0 -
I've yet to hear anyone bar a Corbynista knock Hungary - 99% of Times posters think he's got it spot on.MarqueeMark said:
It is truly one of the most baffling episodes in European history, certainly since the fall of the Wall. It was so utterly predictable. It could only have one outcome - the headlong rush, as Africa and Asia hurtled towards Germany.JEO said:MarqueeMark,
Seriously what the hell were the Germans thinking? They literally sent out a big message that we needed to be welcoming to migrants, we would solve the problem by sharing them out among the EU, and that was what being European was all about.
Then the numbers coming surge (surprise, surprise) and they realise they can't take them all. What were they expecting to happen? Did they put no forethought into it at all?
And then the "Oh Mein Fucking Gott!!" realisation that Africa and Asia were hurtling towards Germany.
With just time for a slap-stick interlude whilst the Germans got all high and mighty with the Hungarian PM. For Stating the Bleeding Obvious.
Tragi-comedy. It must be what passes for humour in Germany.0 -
-
Yes, it's a bit harsh on Chuka isn't it? Oh well, I'm sure he'll find ways to keep busy on the back-benches. And yes it's a sell-out and an early one too. I can say that a Corbyn-voter (selector?) and someone who voted for the Communist/Socialist (and apparently the old Liberal Party was in there too!) No2EU front at the Euros because of my euroskepticism.Pauly said:
I feel like Corbyn has just backstabbed all of the eurosceptic Labour vote he swept up and just compromised one of his core principles worse than Blair pretending to be left-wing.Scott_P said:@Jack_Blanchard_: Official - Labour will campaign for Britain to stay in Europe. Jeremy Corbyn just sent this email to every Labour MP: http://t.co/m7oVbjt1Du
EDIT: Also Chuka Umunna out of the cabinet for no reason now apparently...
Now what price Trident?0 -
*Claps*HurstLlama said:
I am fairly sure, though, that his version of printing more chicken means I should just provide it (i.e. it's someone else's job to actually earn the cash to pay for his benefits) - doesn't that make him more Labour than Lib Dem?JosiasJessop said:
Mr Llama, you have made an unconscionable mistake, and one most unlike you.HurstLlama said:
I am not too sure, Mr. Hopkins, he is welsh, you see, and so sometimes difficult to understand. However, based on his attitude to property rights, which can be summed by "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too", I think he might quite approve of some of the Labour ideas.MarkHopkins said:HurstLlama said:
We really do need the like button back. Damn good post, Msr Le Marquis. Labour are about as relevant to serious political discourse at the moment as the mewings of my cat.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?
And what does your cat think of the Labour party?
Approving of "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too" means he is a Lib Dem.
Labour would be : "My chicken is mine, your chicken is mine, and when we run out of chicken we'll print more chicken".0 -
Even Cameron doesn't have such high hopes for his renegotiation that he will commit to "Remain"Scott_P said:@iainmartin1: One of the few things Corbyn got right was not to give Cameron a blank cheque on EU. He's just done so.
@JohnRentoul: He might as well just go and join the Tories @iainmartin10 -
I got the feeling Cameron's response, very much couched in terms of "there'll be more jobs for all and they'll be higher paid", was largely a way of avoiding say "to be honest, I do think it's fair their benefits will be cut, and if they do want more money then she should get out and work more".MikeL said:
That article is spot on.
It needs to be emphasised again and again and again - tax credits are not primarily about supporting people with low pay - they are about supporting people with children.
The basics:
- Single person earning £15k - gets zero tax credits (today, before the cuts). Zero.
- Single person with two children earning £32k - gets tax credits.
Stop then and think. If both parents (with two children) are present and both earning - even if they both earn just £16,500 (for total family earnings of £33k) - they'll get zero tax credits as well!
(The cut-off for a family with two children is just under £33k).
So without children you get nothing (unless on very low earnings - about £14k downwards).
Couples together with only up to two children also get nothing if both are earning and combined get £33k - still a low salary - only £16,500 each.
And huge tax credits are paid to single earners with children, even on average salaries - and people earning much more with large numbers of children (income cut-off point rises with every extra child).0 -
I think ours wouldn't eat chicken.Plato_Says said:*Claps*
HurstLlama said:
I am fairly sure, though, that his version of printing more chicken means I should just provide it (i.e. it's someone else's job to actually earn the cash to pay for his benefits) - doesn't that make him more Labour than Lib Dem?JosiasJessop said:
Mr Llama, you have made an unconscionable mistake, and one most unlike you.HurstLlama said:
I am not too sure, Mr. Hopkins, he is welsh, you see, and so sometimes difficult to understand. However, based on his attitude to property rights, which can be summed by "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too", I think he might quite approve of some of the Labour ideas.MarkHopkins said:HurstLlama said:
We really do need the like button back. Damn good post, Msr Le Marquis. Labour are about as relevant to serious political discourse at the moment as the mewings of my cat.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, utterly barmy. The UK political news recently has been about the Tories reforming welfare, promoting the Northern powerhouse, introducing a new immigration bill, discussing the legal framework of the security services, and changing trade union law, and Labour are agonising about whether their leader should take part in an entirely harmless and ceremonial tradition involving Her Majesty, who in any case is hugely popular amongst exactly the kinds of voter the party needs to reach. As political self-harm goes, Labour are surpassing all previous records.MTimT said:"This secretive, archaic institution is a loophole in our constitutional safety net"
What a hilarious and idiotic thing to say. Since the change in the Canadian constitution, when has the Privy Council done anything of the slightest significance, and in that its role was essentially ceremonial?
And what does your cat think of the Labour party?
Approving of "my chicken is mine and you should give me yours too" means he is a Lib Dem.
Labour would be : "My chicken is mine, your chicken is mine, and when we run out of chicken we'll print more chicken".
It gets Aldi tuna half anf half with Aldi dried catfood. It eats the tuna and goes away for 2 hours until it is clear no more tuna is arriving. Then it eats the catfood. Then it comes back with the same offended look it had before it got the first lot.
When Aldi ran out of catfood it ate nothing and caught mice for 2 days rather than go Tesco.0 -
I have said that from the first day she made her ill judged, arrogant and undemocratic (in Europe terms) decision to allow up to one million into Germany. The latest German bill is beyond belief and by making people homeless with no benefits and not able to work she is going to starve them. I hope at the leaders meeting next Wednesday real anger is directed at her and that all refugees and migrants will be sent to accommodation centres in southern Europe and the Middle East and genuine refugees distributed world wide. There is no other solution to this horrible mess of incompetence and real concern around security throughout Europe.Tykejohnno said:
Idiot Merkel ?MarqueeMark said:
Forget the idiot Corbyn. He is a sideshow, a smokescreen blocking off the view of one of the most extraordinary and sweeping political about-turns any of us have ever seen. Literally millions have had their lives turned upside down.GarethoftheVale2 said:From the Guardian live feed:
"Interior minister Thomas de Maizière is planning huge cuts to Germany’s benefits for asylum seekers in a new fast-tracked bill, a copy of which was leaked to the news agency AFP on Thursday.
The draft bill, dated Monday, would see refugees who have travelled to Germany via other EU countries - and should therefore be under their jurisdiction, according to the Dublin rules - refused the automatic benefits allowed under Germany’s asylum seeker law. They will only be given a travel ticket and provisions, the agency said.
In addition, refugees who cannot be deported because they don’t have passports and refuse to give information on their country of origin will be refused the right to work and will lose social benefits.
Any asylum seekers on Germany’s list of “safe countries of origin” - chiefly Balkan countries - would also be barred from work and from any education or training schemes.
The asylum seekers’ campaign group Pro Asyl criticized the plan heavily. “The government’s draft law will make partition, deterrence, and homelessness all part of the programme,” the group said in a statement released on its website."
So much for refugees welcome!
"Welcome to Germany. Now fuck off."
0 -
SeanT
Did you find evidence of the BBC cutting out the "Allah Akhbar" chants?0
