politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s English challenge
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If Corbyn steps down within 2/3 years Jon Trickett is a possible. Miliband had him in the shadow cabinet office.HurstLlama said:
As a service to some of us that don't follow the internal politics of the Labour Party that closely, would you care to name some names? Who are these more able people of the left? Who should we be looking out for in trying to judge form?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.0 -
Roger said:
Cyclefree
"I must say I do find it amusing - in a grim way - that Nick Palmer, having spent any number of threads, telling us - in the teeth of all the evidence - that Corbyn's "friends", "associations" whatever just showed his openness to speaking to all sorts of people, to try and find common ground, to lay the ground work for peace etc,"
By the same token should we consider the Prime Minister an irredeemable dilettante from his Bullingdon days? A time incidentally when Corbyn was demonstrating against the evils of apartheid.
I know whose past most would find more laudable.
The difference, Roger, is that Cameron left the Bullingdon club behind.
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Blairism is rightly dead. There was no content to it, other than the promotion of Blair. It was no more substantial in the end than the Cheshire Cat's grin.YBarddCwsc said:
It won’t be a Blairite. With under 5 per cent of the membership, Blairites are becoming extinct.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
They are the red squirrels of the Labour Party now.
On the subject of Blairism, I think Corbyn promised to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for Iraq. I think that will be a popular move.
Blair never really thought through what a social democratic party should be so once he left, there was nothing for his supporters to build on - as has been shown by Kendall's disappointing performance. Forget Blair.
If there are any serious thinkers left in the Labour party, they need to start thinking now, hard, about what a left of centre party should stand for and be. They could start with SO's posts if they really have a blankness in their head about this. Even I could come up with something.
That's what the Jarvis's and others should be doing. But even he - attractive as he appears to be - when recently interviewed, talked in cliches when asked about what his alternatives / proposals might be. There are lots of people who are well able to analyse why Labour lost and what its weaknesses are but seem scared or unwilling or unable to follow the evidence where it leads and what it means for what they ought now to be doing, possibly because it would involve the slaying of too many Labour sacred cows.
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TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
How would a candidate from the left ever get on the ballot again?0 -
It is also worth noting that whilst Corbyn was waving placards, Fatcha was quietly but effectively getting on with the job of ensuring Mandela's release and apartheid's dismantling....Cyclefree said:
Really? Cameron is like many I meet in the City and I have no particular love for them, frankly, to put it mildly.Roger said:Cyclefree
"I must say I do find it amusing - in a grim way - that Nick Palmer, having spent any number of threads, telling us - in the teeth of all the evidence - that Corbyn's "friends", "associations" whatever just showed his openness to speaking to all sorts of people, to try and find common ground, to lay the ground work for peace etc,"
By the same token should we consider the Prime Minister an irredeemable dilettante from his Bullingdon days? A time incidentally when Corbyn was demonstrating against the evils of apartheid.
I know whose past most would find more laudable.
ttps://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COssc7tWwAA-JAg.jpg&imgrefurl=https://twitter.com/junayed_/status/642656272303656960&h=418&w=600&tbnid=xigV6E2bkHIPKM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=172&usg=__PSvKI6nvbgx8ssEvBcCte5sSmv0=&docid=cCPvT1OKj-ZCAM&sa=X&ved=0CDIQ9QEwB2oVChMIvOiWq-7zxwIVh10UCh1AGQMN
But I think your moral compass needs a bit of tuning if you think that, say, trashing a restaurant as a student (appalling as that is) is as bad as an MP inviting to Parliament on two occasions terrorist leaders a few days after their organisations have killed people in London and the government.
One of Cameron's best moments as Prime Minister was the unreserved and gracious and much needed apology he made for Bloody Sunday. Corbyn can't even bring himself to condemn the IRA which is and was for many years an outfit which killed, tortured and disappeared people, some of them Catholics, ran criminal protection rackets and threatened anyone who tried to stand up to it and gloried in what it was doing.0 -
Indeed it is baffling. – the regular attacks on the PB ladies, may sum up neatly why Labour supporters this past week rejected every female candidate for the roles of Mayor of London, Deputy party leader and the Party Leadership itself.Alanbrooke said:
I don't get it either. The attacks on female bloggers* are more aggressive from people who claim they are all for feminism but still appear to think women should be seen but not heard.HurstLlama said:
What is it with you Labour supporting types? Why do you have such a problem with women? Oh, and being polite?surbiton said:
* though SeanT aint doing righties any favours with MrsB atm.0 -
justin124 So its a sort of overnight thing then..and because a new LOTO is frit of it we should abort0
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MPs like to back the winner, since they get the patronage and MPs know on which side their bread is buttered. If the winner is going to be on the left then they will get the nominations required.SunnyJim said:TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
How would a candidate from the left ever get on the ballot again?0 -
Thanks. Is that it though? Just one chap? From your post I was expecting more names.TCPoliticalBetting said:
If Corbyn steps down within 2/3 years Jon Trickett is a possible. Miliband had him in the shadow cabinet office.HurstLlama said:
As a service to some of us that don't follow the internal politics of the Labour Party that closely, would you care to name some names? Who are these more able people of the left? Who should we be looking out for in trying to judge form?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.0 -
The idea of nominations for the left candidates in the next Labour Leadership election is like a version of Prisoner's Dilemma for Game Theory.
If nobody nominates the left (don't confess in PD) then the better outcome may be reached. But if you nominate someone from the left then you get rewarded with patronage if they win. Game Theory shows that the left will get the nominations they require, especially when there is already a significant number of left wing MPs to start with so only need a few extra to cross the threshold.0 -
Good question.SunnyJim said:
How would a candidate from the left ever get on the ballot again?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
1. The Labour hard left is a bit larger than Compass. There were some shy newbies in the 2015 intake. Look at the union affiliated ones.
2. The reselections coming with boundary changes will sharpen minds.
3. Expect further waves of "democracy" in CLPs from Corbyn via the NEC turning MPs into delegates....0 -
At least he didn’t read PPE or similar at Oxbridge!0
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It's a fair question: why is the Labour Party so institutionally misogynistic?
Or is it just down to their activists?0 -
Is no one answering the phone or is Corbyn still sucking his teeth...bodes well0
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I wonder about this. It will be popular but probably mainly with the people who are already on his side. Will it reach out to many others? Also it rather depends on what he is apologising for. Apologising for lying about intelligence is one thing: that was - if true - dishonest and poisoned the well for any future PM when making such an important decision.YBarddCwsc said:
It won’t be a Blairite. With under 5 per cent of the membership, Blairites are becoming extinct.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
They are the red squirrels of the Labour Party now.
On the subject of Blairism, I think Corbyn promised to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for Iraq. I think that will be a popular move.
But is that Corbyn's objection. If his apology is because - as I understand - but I'm sure someone will enlighten me - he thinks the UK should not have gone to war in Iraq at all, regardless of intelligence or threat - then that may not help with people outside his existing supporters. I don't want a PM to take the country to war on a lie. But I also don't want a PM who is not willing to defend the country.
The real issue for now is whether he refuses to agree with any steps to protect Britain from any sort of terrorist threat, particularly the major one from IS and its confreres. His initial reaction to the drones strike is not encouraging.
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That's the crux of the matter. John Cruddas has done oodles of work here and very cogent analysis.
He's talked and talked about it - all his policy work during EdM before it was all ignored - and no one is willing to accept that they need to man up and craft something new.
Corbynistas are the ultimate comfort-blanket huggers. TBH, it's the scale of his win that shocked me. 59%. Sure a chunk of that came from the newbies either full or £3er members/the idiocy of letting him on the ballot/the system used - but that speaks even more loudly to the paucity of what the ABCers had to offer.
It may have been a hostile takeover of Labour by the hard Left, but frankly the board were asleep at the wheel and were easy pickings.Cyclefree said:
Blairism is rightly dead. There was no content to it, other than the promotion of Blair. It was no more substantial in the end than the Cheshire Cat's grin.YBarddCwsc said:
It won’t be a Blairite. With under 5 per cent of the membership, Blairites are becoming extinct.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
They are the red squirrels of the Labour Party now.
On the subject of Blairism, I think Corbyn promised to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for Iraq. I think that will be a popular move.
Blair never really thought through what a social democratic party should be so once he left, there was nothing for his supporters to build on - as has been shown by Kendall's disappointing performance. Forget Blair.
If there are any serious thinkers left in the Labour party, they need to start thinking now, hard, about what a left of centre party should stand for and be. They could start with SO's posts if they really have a blankness in their head about this. Even I could come up with something.
That's what the Jarvis's and others should be doing. But even he - attractive as he appears to be - when recently interviewed, talked in cliches when asked about what his alternatives / proposals might be. There are lots of people who are well able to analyse why Labour lost and what its weaknesses are but seem scared or unwilling or unable to follow the evidence where it leads and what it means for what they ought now to be doing, possibly because it would involve the slaying of too many Labour sacred cows.0 -
The only plonker here is mr g.foxinsoxuk said:
I think he is not trying to appeal to the Corbynistas, but plenty on the Labour right would agree.malcolmg said:
It makes Cameron and his chums look like plonkers. People will only laugh and wonder how they can be so stupid.flightpath01 said:Camerons tweet is the standard party line as taken by Fallon.
Simple and to the point. It bears repetition. There is nothing wrong with it at all. I fail to see how a half baked policy of printing money is anything but a grave threat to every family's security.
The simple point being made is a quite incredibly true one.0 -
Actually I think Blairism towards the end with his academy reforms, introduction of some privatisation to the NHS etc showed that "third way" or "Blairism" might actually mean something.Cyclefree said:Blairism is rightly dead. There was no content to it, other than the promotion of Blair. It was no more substantial in the end than the Cheshire Cat's grin.
IE using market forces for social causes. Improving the social concerns the left have, with the tools that the right have. Using a practical means for a social end.
Unfortunately for Blair's legacy the left now cares more about the means than the end, so this is viewed as "being a Tory".0 -
Good old delusional mad Polly.TGOHF said:
Polly has started alreadyDavidL said:. I think after the next election there will be lots of discussions about the bias in the system in favour of the Tories. But that will just be the reward for being nearest the centre. We are a moderate lot really.
"The iron fist of our wicked electoral system means he must sway some who voted Tory in the 100 seats he must win"
Strangely the system was not "wicked" when Labour was racking up the victories.
Can't wait until she decides that Corbyn is her Viking warrior.0 -
And if someone does icepick Jezza, it will be once a more credible hard-Lefter has been identified and groomed for the job.
He was the Accidental Candidate on the ballot - the Left had put up others in the past and it was JC's turn. We could've had Trickett instead or anyone one of those who genuinely nominated him.Philip_Thompson said:
MPs like to back the winner, since they get the patronage and MPs know on which side their bread is buttered. If the winner is going to be on the left then they will get the nominations required.SunnyJim said:TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
How would a candidate from the left ever get on the ballot again?0 -
The Right tend to condescend to women, acting all surprised if a woman utters a fully formed sentence all by herself ("Aren't you clever!"). The Left tend to be in favour of feminism if it means they can get more sex without any of that commitment nonsense. But once they've had it, the women are there just to make the tea.MarqueeMark said:It's a fair question: why is the Labour Party so institutionally misogynistic?
Or is it just down to their activists?
Still, revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
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Maybe, but it's a creature of Parliament and not something that LotO can unilaterally decide is no longer part of his job description.justin124 said:
I don't think PMQ has a particularly long history. From memory it started in the late Macmillan era in the early 1960s.JackW said:Marr indicating via Tom Watson upcoming interview that the Corbyn PMQ vacancy option may still be a runner.
IMO Bercow and HoC procedure will say not.
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Apologising for Iraq will be about as popular as Clegg apologising for tuition fees.YBarddCwsc said:
It won’t be a Blairite. With under 5 per cent of the membership, Blairites are becoming extinct.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
They are the red squirrels of the Labour Party now.
On the subject of Blairism, I think Corbyn promised to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for Iraq. I think that will be a popular move.0 -
The Right tend to condescend to womenCyclefree said:
The Right tend to condescend to women, acting all surprised if a woman utters a fully formed sentence all by herself ("Aren't you clever!"). The Left tend to be in favour of feminism if it means they can get more sex without any of that commitment nonsense. But once they've had it, the women are there just to make the tea.MarqueeMark said:It's a fair question: why is the Labour Party so institutionally misogynistic?
Or is it just down to their activists?
Still, revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
Disagree.
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The difference is Clegg was the one responsible, whereas Corbyn was not - even though Labour was, as a new face an apology might work.Philip_Thompson said:
Apologising for Iraq will be about as popular as Clegg apologising for tuition fees.YBarddCwsc said:
It won’t be a Blairite. With under 5 per cent of the membership, Blairites are becoming extinct.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
They are the red squirrels of the Labour Party now.
On the subject of Blairism, I think Corbyn promised to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for Iraq. I think that will be a popular move.0 -
'Blairism' was just old fashioned Wilson-type pragmatic social democracy.Cyclefree said:
Blairism is rightly dead. There was no content to it, other than the promotion of Blair. It was no more substantial in the end than the Cheshire Cat's grin.YBarddCwsc said:
It won’t be a Blairite. With under 5 per cent of the membership, Blairites are becoming extinct.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
They are the red squirrels of the Labour Party now.
On the subject of Blairism, I think Corbyn promised to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for Iraq. I think that will be a popular move.
Blair never really thought through what a social democratic party should be so once he left, there was nothing for his supporters to build on - as has been shown by Kendall's disappointing performance. Forget Blair.
...
In rubbishing Blair you forget the disaster that was Brown who meddled all through the Blair years and was a disaster as Chancellor and as PM and a disaster for his party.
The crime of Blair was not sacking Brown.0 -
Cyclefree said:
Wasn't it IDS who said you have 100 days to establish yourself as leader? The Tories are seeking to define Corbyn before he does it for himself. The finer points of some meeting with the IRA or some squalid anti-Semite invited to tea don't matter to the public. They want the public to know or dimly remember one thing and one thing only about Corbyn: that he/Labour are a threat to people's security. So that everything he says or does will be viewed through that prism.surbiton said:
I am a bit surprised at the Tory tactics. If they think Corbyn is a massive liability, shouldn't they let him stew in his own juice ? Why this guns blazing attack ?eek said:I have to ask who on earth thought this was a sensible tweet...
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/642984909980725248
The Tories message is that Labour cannot be trusted with your security. It's a deceptively simple and adaptable message. If there's an IS attack and he equivocates or it turns out that one of his friends approve of it it will resonate. If he proposes some economic policy, it risks not being judged on its merits but as part of an attack on people's hard work and savings etc. The Tories want the public to make their mind up about Corbyn before he's even had a chance and long before any election campaign.
Incidentally, I don't think that Labour will be tainted by Corbyn so much as demonstrate how weak the liberal progressive Labour brand really is. Rather Corbyn is a symptom of how Labour has tainted itself by its prolonged failure to stand up for the values it claims to believe in. It is Labour's weakness which has allowed that part of the Left which is eager to suck up to radical Islam and other illiberal groups to become so strong. Labour has had no antibodies with which to fight the illiberals. Hence Corbyn's victory.
A truly strong, truly liberal, truly progressive, truly tolerant, truly anti-racist, truly anti-fascist, truly anti-totalitarian/anti-authoritarian Labour party would have batted Corbyn and his ilk away without fuss. But we have not had such a party on the left now for some time. Just a shell consisting of empty careerists ripe for takeover.
To cut a long story short, Labour should be "Friends of Israel" - that's it !
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Apologising for something you were responsible for is credible, apologising for something you opposed is just stupid. He has no reason to apologise for Iraq, "I opposed that" is more credible and draws more of a line in the sand.kle4 said:
The difference is Clegg was the one responsible, whereas Corbyn was not - even though Labour was, as a new face an apology might work.Philip_Thompson said:
Apologising for Iraq will be about as popular as Clegg apologising for tuition fees.YBarddCwsc said:
It won’t be a Blairite. With under 5 per cent of the membership, Blairites are becoming extinct.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
They are the red squirrels of the Labour Party now.
On the subject of Blairism, I think Corbyn promised to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for Iraq. I think that will be a popular move.
Who will an Iraq apology from Corbyn appeal to? Stop the war types know that Corbyn was on their side already.0 -
A very fair question, Mr. Dodd. Corbyn could not appear on Marr because he had to put a shadow cabinet together, a task which one would have thought he had already given considerable thought. Yet here we are a lunchtime without a single appointment being announced. No doubt this is the new way of doing politics and not pandering to the filthy Murdoch press.richardDodd said:Is no one answering the phone or is Corbyn still sucking his teeth...bodes well
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Wasn't the view that Socialism had died there in the 90's with the rise of New Labour?MarqueeMark said:
As I have said before on here, that is Corbyn's real role: to finally kill Socialism as a political idea put to the voters in the mainstream. Once it has been consigned to the dustbin of history, the Labour Party can finally get on with proposing solutions for the real world, shorn of the necessity to pay homage to this long-expired political quackery.Gaius said:
I think we are witnessing nothing less than the destruction of socialism.Roger said:
The horrific inequalities currently being waved in everyone's face with the plight of the migrants is unsustainable. Whether or not Corbyn is a useless politician isn't important. His overwhelming mandate as leader of the opposition means he'll be heard.
His message that the level of inequality is unsustainable as is the subjugation of weak nations by powerful ones is unargueable.
This is how he managed to cut through a very unradical Labour electorate to win decisively and his message will resonate. If I was a TORY (which thank the Lord I'm not sir....) I'd be seriously worried. The sight of the Prime Minister and his Tory chums posing in their Bullindon finery is now so inappropriate it's almost shocking
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Surely the opposite is about to happen?SunnyJim said:
How would a candidate from the left ever get on the ballot again?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
Under Corbyn the £3 members will be those deciding policy at Conference, there will be takeovers of constituency parties by the trots and anyone calling themselves 'Blairite' can expect deselection.
All the nutcases that Kinnock spent years kicking out of the party, well they're not just back, they're back with a vengeance.
Even if JC doesn't contest the 2020 election, he'll be replaced as leader by a younger version of himself rather than a centrist.0 -
From DT live
Where is Jeremy Corbyn today?
Mr Corbyn is currently attending an event in his constituency of Islington North, which has been in the diary for a long time.
Sky News reports that a source close to Mr Corbyn said he did not want to miss the constituency event.
Later this afternoon he will head to Labour's HQ in Westminster to carry on pinning down his new shadow cabinet.HurstLlama said:
A very fair question, Mr. Dodd. Corbyn could not appear on Marr because he had to put a shadow cabinet together, a task which one would have thought he had already given considerable thought. Yet here we are a lunchtime without a single appointment being announced. No doubt this is the new way of doing politics and not pandering to the filthy Murdoch press.richardDodd said:Is no one answering the phone or is Corbyn still sucking his teeth...bodes well
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A dish best served cold.Cyclefree said:
The Right tend to condescend to women, acting all surprised if a woman utters a fully formed sentence all by herself ("Aren't you clever!"). The Left tend to be in favour of feminism if it means they can get more sex without any of that commitment nonsense. But once they've had it, the women are there just to make the tea.MarqueeMark said:It's a fair question: why is the Labour Party so institutionally misogynistic?
Or is it just down to their activists?
Still, revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
Though serving cold tea doesn't seem the most overwhelming revenge in the world.0 -
But questions did take place in a slightly different format from about the 1880's. If Corbyn does not want to ask questions then there is no reason why the Speaker should allow some other nominee by the LOTO to ask them. Its entirely up to him and if anything he should favour backbenchers of his own choosing.justin124 said:
I don't think PMQ has a particularly long history. From memory it started in the late Macmillan era in the early 1960s.JackW said:Marr indicating via Tom Watson upcoming interview that the Corbyn PMQ vacancy option may still be a runner.
IMO Bercow and HoC procedure will say not.0 -
Are we going to get any indications of a Shadow Cabinet being formed at any point? Or has he got to decide whether he's got enough people available for a "traditional" shadow structure first?0
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And it will beg the question 'What do you support/believe now in terms of the region?' which might not go too well.Philip_Thompson said:
Apologising for something you were responsible for is credible, apologising for something you opposed is just stupid. He has no reason to apologise for Iraq, "I opposed that" is more credible and draws more of a line in the sand.kle4 said:
The difference is Clegg was the one responsible, whereas Corbyn was not - even though Labour was, as a new face an apology might work.Philip_Thompson said:
Apologising for Iraq will be about as popular as Clegg apologising for tuition fees.YBarddCwsc said:
It won’t be a Blairite. With under 5 per cent of the membership, Blairites are becoming extinct.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
They are the red squirrels of the Labour Party now.
On the subject of Blairism, I think Corbyn promised to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for Iraq. I think that will be a popular move.
Who will an Iraq apology from Corbyn appeal to? Stop the war types know that Corbyn was on their side already.0 -
Note that the line begins "The Labour Party" not "Jeremy Corbyn". They need to optimize for the case where he is no longer leader in 2020, since if he's still leader they're probably going to have an enjoyable election in any case.surbiton said:
I am a bit surprised at the Tory tactics. If they think Corbyn is a massive liability, shouldn't they let him stew in his own juice ? Why this guns blazing attack ?eek said:I have to ask who on earth thought this was a sensible tweet...
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/6429849099807252480 -
So Corybn spends the morning at a NHS fun day instead of speaking to millions on the BBC... Bodes well.
Why hasnt he announced any of his shadow team yet?0 -
Yes maybe - but the fact that the Tories are taking those proposals forward means that Labour have been left denuded and made it easy to make the charge that Labour were no more than Tory-lite. Plus it made Labour very prone to corporatism e.g. its favouring of PFI to spend more on public services rather than make the case for spending on public services. That was a policy borne out of cowardice and a lack of self-belief.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually I think Blairism towards the end with his academy reforms, introduction of some privatisation to the NHS etc showed that "third way" or "Blairism" might actually mean something.Cyclefree said:Blairism is rightly dead. There was no content to it, other than the promotion of Blair. It was no more substantial in the end than the Cheshire Cat's grin.
IE using market forces for social causes. Improving the social concerns the left have, with the tools that the right have. Using a practical means for a social end.
Unfortunately for Blair's legacy the left now cares more about the means than the end, so this is viewed as "being a Tory".
Labour has tended to talk about public services as if they are all a good and all equally worthy of being in the public sector and having money spent on them. It should be starting by working out what the public needs, which of those should be in the public sector and why and how they should be funded so as to get the maximum possible output for the money spent. If they did this, though, they would have to accept that some services might not need to be in the public sector at all. It might also mean that the public would have to accept more in order to get the quality it wants. Instead Labour's policy is to defend the post-1945 settlement as if it can never ever be changed. It's absurd: Attlee's government was a good government for its times but it didn't hand down the 10 Commandments. Labour should stop acting as if it did.
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I don't mind Jezza doing a ritual apology on behalf of the Labour Party on Iraq. I was in favour of GW1 so don't have an axe to grind bar Blair's lying.
I doubt his motives, but it needs doing even just for the sake of it. Like Cameron offering a free vote on fox-hunting.Philip_Thompson said:
Apologising for something you were responsible for is credible, apologising for something you opposed is just stupid. He has no reason to apologise for Iraq, "I opposed that" is more credible and draws more of a line in the sand.kle4 said:
The difference is Clegg was the one responsible, whereas Corbyn was not - even though Labour was, as a new face an apology might work.Philip_Thompson said:
Apologising for Iraq will be about as popular as Clegg apologising for tuition fees.YBarddCwsc said:
It won’t be a Blairite. With under 5 per cent of the membership, Blairites are becoming extinct.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
They are the red squirrels of the Labour Party now.
On the subject of Blairism, I think Corbyn promised to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for Iraq. I think that will be a popular move.
Who will an Iraq apology from Corbyn appeal to? Stop the war types know that Corbyn was on their side already.0 -
Toynbee is something of a bad supporter for anyone to have. Every sensible word she has ever written seems likely to foreshadow a landmine of nonsense.Floater said:
Good old delusional mad Polly.TGOHF said:
Polly has started alreadyDavidL said:. I think after the next election there will be lots of discussions about the bias in the system in favour of the Tories. But that will just be the reward for being nearest the centre. We are a moderate lot really.
"The iron fist of our wicked electoral system means he must sway some who voted Tory in the 100 seats he must win"
Strangely the system was not "wicked" when Labour was racking up the victories.
Can't wait until she decides that Corbyn is her Viking warrior.
0 -
The crime of Blair was not sacking Brown.
Blair should have taken Brown on, beaten him and then nominated his own team. He would have been skulking on the back benches, true, but so what.0 -
Quite right. I was thinking of the Sicilian saying: "La vendica se magna fredda". Or we could use the Irish one: "Don't get mad. Get even."Theuniondivvie said:
A dish best served cold.Cyclefree said:
The Right tend to condescend to women, acting all surprised if a woman utters a fully formed sentence all by herself ("Aren't you clever!"). The Left tend to be in favour of feminism if it means they can get more sex without any of that commitment nonsense. But once they've had it, the women are there just to make the tea.MarqueeMark said:It's a fair question: why is the Labour Party so institutionally misogynistic?
Or is it just down to their activists?
Still, revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
Though serving cold tea doesn't seem the most overwhelming revenge in the world.
0 -
TBH, I think the rise of Corbynistas will put back Labour for a decade or more simply because of this fact.
Blair convinced us that Socialism wasn't Labour - it was this new confection of Third Wayery between right-left.
Now the stone has been lifted and all these hard-Lefties have scuttled out and taken over. It's perfectly reasonable for Tories and others to point to this and say Told You, They Never Changed.
Like Labour ruining the economy twice - once could be circumstances, twice is by design.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Wasn't the view that Socialism had died there in the 90's with the rise of New Labour?MarqueeMark said:
As I have said before on here, that is Corbyn's real role: to finally kill Socialism as a political idea put to the voters in the mainstream. Once it has been consigned to the dustbin of history, the Labour Party can finally get on with proposing solutions for the real world, shorn of the necessity to pay homage to this long-expired political quackery.Gaius said:
I think we are witnessing nothing less than the destruction of socialism.Roger said:
The horrific inequalities currently being waved in everyone's face with the plight of the migrants is unsustainable. Whether or not Corbyn is a useless politician isn't important. His overwhelming mandate as leader of the opposition means he'll be heard.
His message that the level of inequality is unsustainable as is the subjugation of weak nations by powerful ones is unargueable.
This is how he managed to cut through a very unradical Labour electorate to win decisively and his message will resonate. If I was a TORY (which thank the Lord I'm not sir....) I'd be seriously worried. The sight of the Prime Minister and his Tory chums posing in their Bullindon finery is now so inappropriate it's almost shocking0 -
Tea and revenge are quite different though!Theuniondivvie said:
A dish best served cold.Cyclefree said:
The Right tend to condescend to women, acting all surprised if a woman utters a fully formed sentence all by herself ("Aren't you clever!"). The Left tend to be in favour of feminism if it means they can get more sex without any of that commitment nonsense. But once they've had it, the women are there just to make the tea.MarqueeMark said:It's a fair question: why is the Labour Party so institutionally misogynistic?
Or is it just down to their activists?
Still, revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
Though serving cold tea doesn't seem the most overwhelming revenge in the world.
Certainly tea and revenge when served cold will be all the better for good service though.
0 -
If you say so. Not quite sure where you get that from in my reply. But interesting to see what's in your head, I suppose.surbiton said:Cyclefree said:
Wasn't it IDS who said you have 100 days to establish yourself as leader? The Tories are seeking to define Corbyn before he does it for himself. The finer points of some meeting with the IRA or some squalid anti-Semite invited to tea don't matter to the public. They want the public to know or dimly remember one thing and one thing only about Corbyn: that he/Labour are a threat to people's security. So that everything he says or does will be viewed through that prism.surbiton said:
I am a bit surprised at the Tory tactics. If they think Corbyn is a massive liability, shouldn't they let him stew in his own juice ? Why this guns blazing attack ?eek said:I have to ask who on earth thought this was a sensible tweet...
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/642984909980725248
The Tories message is that Labour cannot be trusted with your security. It's a deceptively simple and adaptable message. If there's an IS attack and he equivocates or it turns out that one of his friends approve of it it will resonate. If he proposes some economic policy, it risks not being judged on its merits but as part of an attack on people's hard work and savings etc. The Tories want the public to make their mind up about Corbyn before he's even had a chance and long before any election campaign.
Incidentally, I don't think that Labour will be tainted by Corbyn so much as demonstrate how weak the liberal progressive Labour brand really is. Rather Corbyn is a symptom of how Labour has tainted itself by its prolonged failure to stand up for the values it claims to believe in. It is Labour's weakness which has allowed that part of the Left which is eager to suck up to radical Islam and other illiberal groups to become so strong. Labour has had no antibodies with which to fight the illiberals. Hence Corbyn's victory.
A truly strong, truly liberal, truly progressive, truly tolerant, truly anti-racist, truly anti-fascist, truly anti-totalitarian/anti-authoritarian Labour party would have batted Corbyn and his ilk away without fuss. But we have not had such a party on the left now for some time. Just a shell consisting of empty careerists ripe for takeover.
To cut a long story short, Labour should be "Friends of Israel" - that's it !
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Getting the Tories out ,though, - rather than Labour winning - requires a small swing! In a 650 HOC Tories will need 310 seats post 2020 to continue as a minority Government.HYUFD said:
Attlee got an 11% swing in 1945, Blair a 10% swing in 1997, so Attlee did it too, albeit over 50 years priorRodCrosby said:
The uncomfortable fact is that, after the boundary changes, whoever would lead Labour will need a 1997-style swing to achieve a bare majority in 2020 - a feat only achieved by Blair himself.ydoethur said:
This is the second one:SquareRoot said:I remember OGH writing threads about the Labour bias within the electoral system, and I further recall him writing another thread that it had either gone or was now a tory bias.. anyone recall where we are?
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/how-scotland-and-the-ld-collapse-almost-completely-reverses-the-bias-in-the-electoral-system/
No wonder even Prescott was saying the unthinkable yesterday, that Labour should consider all options, including pacts and coalitions.
PR might be back on the agenda too, I guess.0 -
"The Filthy Murdoch Press" that must include the BBC and the Mirror and Guardian..0
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I think we should install Polly on the 4th Plinth as an audio installation to deter Corbynite demonstrations.Omnium said:
Toynbee is something of a bad supporter for anyone to have. Every sensible word she has ever written seems likely to foreshadow a landmine of nonsense.Floater said:
Good old delusional mad Polly.TGOHF said:
Polly has started alreadyDavidL said:. I think after the next election there will be lots of discussions about the bias in the system in favour of the Tories. But that will just be the reward for being nearest the centre. We are a moderate lot really.
"The iron fist of our wicked electoral system means he must sway some who voted Tory in the 100 seats he must win"
Strangely the system was not "wicked" when Labour was racking up the victories.
Can't wait until she decides that Corbyn is her Viking warrior.0 -
Some on the right, then. In the two areas where I've worked, I've seen plenty of it. And not everyone on the left is like what I've described either. Still if we can't have a few enjoyable stereotypes on a Sunday lunchtime, when can we?!MarkHopkins said:
The Right tend to condescend to womenCyclefree said:
The Right tend to condescend to women, acting all surprised if a woman utters a fully formed sentence all by herself ("Aren't you clever!"). The Left tend to be in favour of feminism if it means they can get more sex without any of that commitment nonsense. But once they've had it, the women are there just to make the tea.MarqueeMark said:It's a fair question: why is the Labour Party so institutionally misogynistic?
Or is it just down to their activists?
Still, revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
Disagree.0 -
@alex
'Are we going to get any indications of a Shadow Cabinet being formed at any point? Or has he got to decide whether he's got enough people available for a "traditional" shadow structure first?'
Looks like there's a shortage of volunteers,only managed to find one person so far,whilst eight have thrown in the towel.
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i think it's called Displacement Activity.
He can't leave his old life behind and given his unwillingness to take charge of anything - he's scared of the change too.Slackbladder said:So Corybn spends the morning at a NHS fun day instead of speaking to millions on the BBC... Bodes well.
Why hasnt he announced any of his shadow team yet?0 -
Nopt aty *this* conference though, since the deadline for applications was in July or August.Sandpit said:
Surely the opposite is about to happen?SunnyJim said:
How would a candidate from the left ever get on the ballot again?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
Under Corbyn the £3 members will be those deciding policy at Conference, there will be takeovers of constituency parties by the trots and anyone calling themselves 'Blairite' can expect deselection.
All the nutcases that Kinnock spent years kicking out of the party, well they're not just back, they're back with a vengeance.
Even if JC doesn't contest the 2020 election, he'll be replaced as leader by a younger version of himself rather than a centrist.0 -
I can't resist posting this (although it's not as good as the driving one):Cyclefree said:
The Right tend to condescend to women, acting all surprised if a woman utters a fully formed sentence all by herself ("Aren't you clever!"). The Left tend to be in favour of feminism if it means they can get more sex without any of that commitment nonsense. But once they've had it, the women are there just to make the tea.MarqueeMark said:It's a fair question: why is the Labour Party so institutionally misogynistic?
Or is it just down to their activists?
Still, revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w0 -
ST Quite mild under the circs..0
-
Does he actually realise that he's LotO now? Will he notice when he sees double the usual salary at the end of the month?Slackbladder said:So Corybn spends the morning at a NHS fun day instead of speaking to millions on the BBC... Bodes well.
Why hasnt he announced any of his shadow team yet?0 -
Say what you like about Polly Toynbee, as I'm sure you will, but she has been pretty consistent about the UK's electoral system.Floater said:
Good old delusional mad Polly.TGOHF said:
Polly has started alreadyDavidL said:. I think after the next election there will be lots of discussions about the bias in the system in favour of the Tories. But that will just be the reward for being nearest the centre. We are a moderate lot really.
"The iron fist of our wicked electoral system means he must sway some who voted Tory in the 100 seats he must win"
Strangely the system was not "wicked" when Labour was racking up the victories.
Can't wait until she decides that Corbyn is her Viking warrior.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/15/britain-rotten-electoral-system-nose-peg-vote-swap-tories-out
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/23/dismal-eu-ballot-corrupt-electoral-system-safe-seats-rotten
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polly_Toynbee
and, no I don't agree with her about much, but I do like people to stick to the facts.
So, if you have a link showing Polly Toynbee praising FPTP during Labour's period in power could you post it?0 -
138 for England. Rubbish.0
-
Betfair have a really fascinating market developing as to when JC will cease to become Labour leader. The spreads are miles wide at the moment, but the framework is great.
Some of the prices (and they're all awful) are mine.
If Corbyn actually thinks through stuff (clearly for the first time) he'll be in an incredible position. Oddly he now has this freedom.
"Jeremy Corbyn when he goes home tonight, and sits musing really can influence the nation. " - I believe this to be a truism - astonishing though it is.0 -
England all out 138 in the deciding one day international against Australia.0
-
Tipping point alert.
'Analysis: What does Jeremy Corbyn mean for Scotland and the SNP?
...And in return they will get independence. Scotland is already on the tipping point and a generation of Tory governments delivered by an unelectable Labour Party will give voters the final shove they need. But by working constructively within the Union in its final years, the SNP will reap real rewards. The eventual separation would be less acrimonious, progressive English opinion less uniformly hostile. The next five years, or however long Jeremy Corbyn lasts in the job, allow the SNP to set out its stall for an independent Scotland that is a friend and ally to the remaining UK.
The party that was supposedly heading to Westminster to wreck the joint could be the best thing that’s happened to parliamentary politics in a long time. It would take hard work and a genuine political will but Labour’s self-injury paves the way for the SNP to become the unofficial opposition.'
http://tinyurl.com/on9tbxh0 -
Corbyn will obviously take some time to create his shadow cabinet team. I mean, it's a bit like cold calling...
"Hello, I wonder if you would be interest... ", "No thank you."
"Good morning, can I ...", "Not interested, bye."
"Hi, I'm not selling anything...", "F*** off"
See. It will take a while.
0 -
I wonder whether Blair regrets that - he certainly felt that the relationship was dysfunctional and that it was stopping him achieving his Legacy. But his calculation seemed to be that he didn't have enough strength in the party to sack Brown.flightpath01 said:
'Blairism' was just old fashioned Wilson-type pragmatic social democracy.Cyclefree said:
Blairism is rightly dead. There was no content to it, other than the promotion of Blair. It was no more substantial in the end than the Cheshire Cat's grin.YBarddCwsc said:
It won’t be a Blairite. With under 5 per cent of the membership, Blairites are becoming extinct.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
They are the red squirrels of the Labour Party now.
On the subject of Blairism, I think Corbyn promised to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for Iraq. I think that will be a popular move.
Blair never really thought through what a social democratic party should be so once he left, there was nothing for his supporters to build on - as has been shown by Kendall's disappointing performance. Forget Blair.
...
In rubbishing Blair you forget the disaster that was Brown who meddled all through the Blair years and was a disaster as Chancellor and as PM and a disaster for his party.
The crime of Blair was not sacking Brown.0 -
Corbo Isnt in power here - just a limp bewildered puppet.
0 -
From memory, Toynbee was one of those lefties who thought that a "fairer" electoral system would lead to some kind of perpetual rainbow coalition. I'm sure you can dig up stuff she wrote back in the 90s that would say pretty much the same thing.logical_song said:
Say what you like about Polly Toynbee, as I'm sure you will, but she has been pretty consistent about the UK's electoral system.Floater said:
Good old delusional mad Polly.TGOHF said:
Polly has started alreadyDavidL said:. I think after the next election there will be lots of discussions about the bias in the system in favour of the Tories. But that will just be the reward for being nearest the centre. We are a moderate lot really.
"The iron fist of our wicked electoral system means he must sway some who voted Tory in the 100 seats he must win"
Strangely the system was not "wicked" when Labour was racking up the victories.
Can't wait until she decides that Corbyn is her Viking warrior.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/15/britain-rotten-electoral-system-nose-peg-vote-swap-tories-out
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/23/dismal-eu-ballot-corrupt-electoral-system-safe-seats-rotten
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polly_Toynbee
and, no I don't agree with her about much, but I do like people to stick to the facts.
So, if you have a link showing Polly Toynbee praising FPTP during Labour's period in power could you post it?0 -
Interesting. Surely the new leader can add his own votes at the conference though?MattW said:
Nopt aty *this* conference though, since the deadline for applications was in July or August.Sandpit said:
Surely the opposite is about to happen?SunnyJim said:
How would a candidate from the left ever get on the ballot again?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
Under Corbyn the £3 members will be those deciding policy at Conference, there will be takeovers of constituency parties by the trots and anyone calling themselves 'Blairite' can expect deselection.
All the nutcases that Kinnock spent years kicking out of the party, well they're not just back, they're back with a vengeance.
Even if JC doesn't contest the 2020 election, he'll be replaced as leader by a younger version of himself rather than a centrist.0 -
Mr Flashman,
"Corbo Isnt in power here - just a limp bewildered puppet."
Interesting leadership already. Instead of getting a shadow cabinet together, he's attending a demo on Saturday afternoon and attending an event in Islington on Sunday.
Come PMQs, he'll be looking for another demo to attend. Jezza is still seventeen so you've got to excuse him.0 -
The others are (for now) people touted by the hard left, Nandy, Lewis etc. i want to see more of them in action before elevating into ones to watch. But, this clear out in the shadow cabinet will create room for some to gain internal credibility. Personally they look more like clean skins without Corbyn's baggage.HurstLlama said:
Thanks. Is that it though? Just one chap? From your post I was expecting more names.TCPoliticalBetting said:
If Corbyn steps down within 2/3 years Jon Trickett is a possible. Miliband had him in the shadow cabinet office.HurstLlama said:
As a service to some of us that don't follow the internal politics of the Labour Party that closely, would you care to name some names? Who are these more able people of the left? Who should we be looking out for in trying to judge form?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
0 -
Tud..The party that headed for Westminster made themselves look like prats..0
-
utopian to say the least.Theuniondivvie said:Tipping point alert.
'Analysis: What does Jeremy Corbyn mean for Scotland and the SNP?
...And in return they will get independence. Scotland is already on the tipping point and a generation of Tory governments delivered by an unelectable Labour Party will give voters the final shove they need. But by working constructively within the Union in its final years, the SNP will reap real rewards. The eventual separation would be less acrimonious, progressive English opinion less uniformly hostile. The next five years, or however long Jeremy Corbyn lasts in the job, allow the SNP to set out its stall for an independent Scotland that
The party that was supposedly heading to Westminster to wreck the joint could be the best thing that’s happened to parliamentary politics in a long time. It would take hard work and a genuine political will but Labour’s self-injury paves the way for the SNP to become the unofficial opposition.'
http://tinyurl.com/on9tbxh
voters still not up for an Indyref
economic questions still not answered
and nobody seriously imagines the SNP "is a friend and ally to the remaining UK." at least not the english part of it.0 -
I saw the real leader of the Labour Party on Sky News..His name is Len and he runs a Union called Unite0
-
Isn't it convention that the LotO and the PM extend good wishes on each major religious day? It's Jewish New Year - has Jezzbollah done one yet?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rosh-hashanah-2015-david-camerons-message0 -
There isn't going to be a shadow cabinet. Corbyn will just let whoever fancies responding to a debate get up and do their stuff.CD13 said:Mr Flashman,
"Corbo Isnt in power here - just a limp bewildered puppet."
Interesting leadership already. Instead of getting a shadow cabinet together, he's attending a demo on Saturday afternoon and attending an event in Islington on Sunday.
Come PMQs, he'll be looking for another demo to attend. Jezza is still seventeen so you've got to excuse him.
Actually, given his lack of support amongst MPs it might not be a bad strategy!0 -
The SNP's angle on Corbyn is interesting. You would have thought as true progressives, they'd be championing Corbyn to potentially bring real anti austerity to the whole of the UK and be delighted that Labour had listened to their criticisms from four months ago and finally returned to its old Labour roots to break free from the Westminster establishment.
It's almost as if everything the SNP apparently stood for is a load of hot air...0 -
And they are right to so. Corbyn is a manifestation of the extreme, but his tendencies exist throughout the Labour Party: a distaste for the West; a comfort with racism against white people; a failure to condemn Islamic intolerance; a dislike for English patriotism.edmundintokyo said:
Note that the line begins "The Labour Party" not "Jeremy Corbyn". They need to optimize for the case where he is no longer leader in 2020, since if he's still leader they're probably going to have an enjoyable election in any case.surbiton said:
I am a bit surprised at the Tory tactics. If they think Corbyn is a massive liability, shouldn't they let him stew in his own juice ? Why this guns blazing attack ?eek said:I have to ask who on earth thought this was a sensible tweet...
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/642984909980725248
To take an example, is there a single prominent Labour politician who has condemned Diane Abbott, who has said several outright racist remarks?0 -
Labour Party wake up..there are a number of small bags containing 30 pieces of silver to be picked up.. just give Corbyn a call..he will be ever so grateful..0
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Ooh, a duck for Joe Burns. Aus 2 runs for 1 wkt.0
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Angela Eagle is being tipped for Shadow Chancellor. Labour are truly stuffed if that's the best they can manage. Even Chris Leslie would have done a better job than she will.
EDIT - and to think I was (and am!) worried about Osborne hubris. Read this almost incredible piece on Labour's shadow cabinet:Len McCluskey, boss of the UK's biggest union Unite and key Corbyn backer, says he is not concerned about the resignations.
http://news.sky.com/story/1551572/corbyns-frontbench-team-will-be-top-class
He told Sky News the new team will be "top class" and "maybe the best we've had in a long time".
"There's no need for any of us to lose sleep over this," he said.
"The talent within the Labour Party is that good that we'll have an enormous, talented team, united and going forward to challenge this Tory government and their horrible, oppressive austerity programme."
Those whom the gods wish to destroy...0 -
Lewis has said he doesn't want a Shadow Cabinet post. When you can't even rely on your supporters...TCPoliticalBetting said:
The others are (for now) people touted by the hard left, Nandy, Lewis etc. i want to see more of them in action before elevating into ones to watch. But, this clear out in the shadow cabinet will create room for some to gain internal credibility. Personally they look more like clean skins without Corbyn's baggage.HurstLlama said:
Thanks. Is that it though? Just one chap? From your post I was expecting more names.TCPoliticalBetting said:
If Corbyn steps down within 2/3 years Jon Trickett is a possible. Miliband had him in the shadow cabinet office.HurstLlama said:
As a service to some of us that don't follow the internal politics of the Labour Party that closely, would you care to name some names? Who are these more able people of the left? Who should we be looking out for in trying to judge form?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.0 -
Ms Plato, one fears that a lot of conventions are about to disappear! Who the hell is going to be Corbyn's Chief of Staff, in charge of all this necessary protocol that his boss couldn't give an Aylsbury Duck about..?Plato_Says said:Isn't it convention that the LotO and the PM extend good wishes on each major religious day? It's Jewish New Year - has Jezzbollah done one yet?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rosh-hashanah-2015-david-camerons-message0 -
Replacements as PM tend to be either friendly or hostile - establishment or reactionary.alex. said:
Lewis has said he doesn't want a Shadow Cabinet post. When you can't even rely on your supporters...TCPoliticalBetting said:
The others are (for now) people touted by the hard left, Nandy, Lewis etc. i want to see more of them in action before elevating into ones to watch. But, this clear out in the shadow cabinet will create room for some to gain internal credibility. Personally they look more like clean skins without Corbyn's baggage.HurstLlama said:
Thanks. Is that it though? Just one chap? From your post I was expecting more names.TCPoliticalBetting said:
If Corbyn steps down within 2/3 years Jon Trickett is a possible. Miliband had him in the shadow cabinet office.HurstLlama said:
As a service to some of us that don't follow the internal politics of the Labour Party that closely, would you care to name some names? Who are these more able people of the left? Who should we be looking out for in trying to judge form?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
Unless Corbyn wins a major victory (probably would require he becomes PM) in 2020 the replacement will be hostile, whether it comes in 2018 or August 2020.0 -
The Shadow Cabinet "flouncers" are bad losers, plain and simple!
Sore-Loserman
0 -
I'm a feminist in that I believe in equal treatment. Plato is as much of a blinkered prat as the most idiotic of the men on here (no mean feat), and I'm not afraid to point that out.
She has the double whammy, in terms of crimes against the Internet, of not only being thick and arrogant (not a good combo), but also posting tons of clickbait, which is even more inexcusable. It'd be sexist for me to have double standards when being compelled by common decency to point this out, just because she is a delicate, defenceless female, or whatever.0 -
http://news.sky.com/story/1551572/corbyns-frontbench-team-will-be-top-classydoethur said:Angela Eagle is being tipped for Shadow Chancellor. Labour are truly stuffed if that's the best they can manage. Even Chris Leslie would have done a better job than she will.
EDIT - and to think I was (and am!) worried about Osborne hubris. Read this almost incredible piece on Labour's shadow cabinet:Len McCluskey, boss of the UK's biggest union Unite and key Corbyn backer, says he is not concerned about the resignations.
He told Sky News the new team will be "top class" and "maybe the best we've had in a long time".
"There's no need for any of us to lose sleep over this," he said.
"The talent within the Labour Party is that good that we'll have an enormous, talented team, united and going forward to challenge this Tory government and their horrible, oppressive austerity programme."
Those whom the gods wish to destroy...
I can't help noticing that the photo caption says 'Mr Corbyn leaves his home for a long-planned mental health event'.0 -
England = Burnham/Cooper/Kendall?David_Evershed said:England all out 138 in the deciding one day international against Australia.
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I can't help noticing that the photo caption says 'Mr Corbyn leaves his home for a long-planned mental health event'.TudorRose said:
http://news.sky.com/story/1551572/corbyns-frontbench-team-will-be-top-classydoethur said:Angela Eagle is being tipped for Shadow Chancellor. Labour are truly stuffed if that's the best they can manage. Even Chris Leslie would have done a better job than she will.
EDIT - and to think I was (and am!) worried about Osborne hubris. Read this almost incredible piece on Labour's shadow cabinet:Len McCluskey, boss of the UK's biggest union Unite and key Corbyn backer, says he is not concerned about the resignations.
He told Sky News the new team will be "top class" and "maybe the best we've had in a long time".
"There's no need for any of us to lose sleep over this," he said.
"The talent within the Labour Party is that good that we'll have an enormous, talented team, united and going forward to challenge this Tory government and their horrible, oppressive austerity programme."
Those whom the gods wish to destroy...
Genuine LOL at that. 0 -
Turnip Taliban?Cyclefree said:
Some on the right, then. In the two areas where I've worked, I've seen plenty of it. And not everyone on the left is like what I've described either. Still if we can't have a few enjoyable stereotypes on a Sunday lunchtime, when can we?!MarkHopkins said:
The Right tend to condescend to womenCyclefree said:
The Right tend to condescend to women, acting all surprised if a woman utters a fully formed sentence all by herself ("Aren't you clever!"). The Left tend to be in favour of feminism if it means they can get more sex without any of that commitment nonsense. But once they've had it, the women are there just to make the tea.MarqueeMark said:It's a fair question: why is the Labour Party so institutionally misogynistic?
Or is it just down to their activists?
Still, revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
Disagree.0 -
I wouldn't say Labour is mysogynistic, but I have noticed a tendency for women who oppose "progressive" causes to be on the receiving end of unpleasant sexualised abuse.Cyclefree said:
The Right tend to condescend to women, acting all surprised if a woman utters a fully formed sentence all by herself ("Aren't you clever!"). The Left tend to be in favour of feminism if it means they can get more sex without any of that commitment nonsense. But once they've had it, the women are there just to make the tea.MarqueeMark said:It's a fair question: why is the Labour Party so institutionally misogynistic?
Or is it just down to their activists?
Still, revenge is a dish best eaten cold.0 -
I think it's going to be quite amusing watching how Corbyn goes about determining the party line on HOC votes. Whatever outsiders think about whipping, the fact is that the one thing it does do is save MPs a lot of time working out how to vote - especially in areas where they really have little interest. Take away some that and they won't know what to do which could result in some amusing outcomes.0
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It's reminding me of the first days of Obama when his team did all manner of incredibly crass and stupid things to signal how different and edgy they were.
Such as the WH gift shop toys for the PM and iPod for HMQ - and the desk...Sandpit said:
Ms Plato, one fears that a lot of conventions are about to disappear! Who the hell is going to be Corbyn's Chief of Staff, in charge of all this necessary protocol that his boss couldn't give an Aylsbury Duck about..?Plato_Says said:Isn't it convention that the LotO and the PM extend good wishes on each major religious day? It's Jewish New Year - has Jezzbollah done one yet?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rosh-hashanah-2015-david-camerons-message0 -
He Who Must Not be Named had a particularly charming way with female posters, when he posted here.SimonStClare said:
Indeed it is baffling. – the regular attacks on the PB ladies, may sum up neatly why Labour supporters this past week rejected every female candidate for the roles of Mayor of London, Deputy party leader and the Party Leadership itself.Alanbrooke said:
I don't get it either. The attacks on female bloggers* are more aggressive from people who claim they are all for feminism but still appear to think women should be seen but not heard.HurstLlama said:
What is it with you Labour supporting types? Why do you have such a problem with women? Oh, and being polite?surbiton said:
* though SeanT aint doing righties any favours with MrsB atm.0 -
I can't help noticing that the photo caption says 'Mr Corbyn leaves his home for a long-planned mental health event'.TudorRose said:
http://news.sky.com/story/1551572/corbyns-frontbench-team-will-be-top-classydoethur said:Angela Eagle is being tipped for Shadow Chancellor. Labour are truly stuffed if that's the best they can manage. Even Chris Leslie would have done a better job than she will.
EDIT - and to think I was (and am!) worried about Osborne hubris. Read this almost incredible piece on Labour's shadow cabinet:Len McCluskey, boss of the UK's biggest union Unite and key Corbyn backer, says he is not concerned about the resignations.
He told Sky News the new team will be "top class" and "maybe the best we've had in a long time".
"There's no need for any of us to lose sleep over this," he said.
"The talent within the Labour Party is that good that we'll have an enormous, talented team, united and going forward to challenge this Tory government and their horrible, oppressive austerity programme."
Those whom the gods wish to destroy...
Poor Michael Foot was once photographed next to a sign saying something like 'Psychiatric Ward', if John O'Farrell is to be believed.0 -
To quote Wayne Rooney:alex. said:
Lewis has said he doesn't want a Shadow Cabinet post. When you can't even rely on your supporters...TCPoliticalBetting said:
The others are (for now) people touted by the hard left, Nandy, Lewis etc. i want to see more of them in action before elevating into ones to watch. But, this clear out in the shadow cabinet will create room for some to gain internal credibility. Personally they look more like clean skins without Corbyn's baggage.HurstLlama said:
Thanks. Is that it though? Just one chap? From your post I was expecting more names.TCPoliticalBetting said:
If Corbyn steps down within 2/3 years Jon Trickett is a possible. Miliband had him in the shadow cabinet office.HurstLlama said:
As a service to some of us that don't follow the internal politics of the Labour Party that closely, would you care to name some names? Who are these more able people of the left? Who should we be looking out for in trying to judge form?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Highly likely that next Leader comes from same wing. There are some people more able than Corbyn from that wing and they now will have an opportunity to become known.Icarus said:Has the Labour Party changed for the foreseeable future? Will the next leader come from the Corbyn wing of the party or be back to New Labour.
The book on the next leader must be a very open one.
"Nice to see your home fans boo ya! That's what loyal support is!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IweagwHnNbo
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The nastiness of the Corbyn supporter mentality has been revealed clearly since he got elected. First we had one calling Kendall a "witch" and now we have one saying that anyone having an issue with coddling up to Islamist anti-semites has to be an Israeli lackey. And then we have several supporters defending Hamas and Hezbollah, two vicious militant groups.surbiton said:
To cut a long story short, Labour should be "Friends of Israel" - that's it !
It is clear just how rotten the Labour Party is in its heart. The Blairite domination among the parliamentary party was merely a facade covering the intolerance and extremism beneath. Now it has been removed the full ugliness of what lies beneath is revealed.0 -
TSE - suggestion for a future thread. Unite and their role in backing the last 3 Labour Leaders. 2 of whom lost their GEs.0
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Interesting piece from Marr:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/we-pundits-were-wrong-about-jeremy-corbyn-so-why-are-we-so-sure-that-hell-flop/
It would be interesting to know how the Labour leader result would have played out as the others dropped out. I think the pundits need to reflect upon the convincing nature of Corbyn's victory, which came in the face of relentless ABC messaging from the MSM, party grandees etc. I think the unexpectedly early Corbyn attacks from Cameron & co are evidence that they can sense danger.0 -
I can't help noticing that the photo caption says 'Mr Corbyn leaves his home for a long-planned mental health event'.TudorRose said:
http://news.sky.com/story/1551572/corbyns-frontbench-team-will-be-top-classydoethur said:Angela Eagle is being tipped for Shadow Chancellor. Labour are truly stuffed if that's the best they can manage. Even Chris Leslie would have done a better job than she will.
EDIT - and to think I was (and am!) worried about Osborne hubris. Read this almost incredible piece on Labour's shadow cabinet:Len McCluskey, boss of the UK's biggest union Unite and key Corbyn backer, says he is not concerned about the resignations.
He told Sky News the new team will be "top class" and "maybe the best we've had in a long time".
"There's no need for any of us to lose sleep over this," he said.
"The talent within the Labour Party is that good that we'll have an enormous, talented team, united and going forward to challenge this Tory government and their horrible, oppressive austerity programme."
Those whom the gods wish to destroy...
0 -
Mr Wisemann, really?JWisemann said:I'm a feminist in that I believe in equal treatment. Plato is as much of a blinkered prat as the most idiotic of the men on here (no mean feat), and I'm not afraid to point that out.
She has the double whammy, in terms of crimes against the Internet, of not only being thick and arrogant (not a good combo), but also posting tons of clickbait, which is even more inexcusable. It'd be sexist for me to have double standards when being compelled by common decency to point this out, just because she is a delicate, defenceless female, or whatever.
Isn't it amazing that the Conservative party, the CONSERVATIVE party, only managed to elect a woman as leader 40 years ago, talks about individuals on merit rather than which 'group' they are from, and has managed to eliminate the casual misogyny of the left that you so epitomise?0 -
You are taking your conversion to Corbynism a bit too seriously, Sunil, old chap.Sunil_Prasannan said:The Shadow Cabinet "flouncers" are bad losers, plain and simple!
Sore-Loserman
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Labour Party..wake up..there are a number of small bags containing 30 pieces of silver just waiting to be picked up..just give Corbyn a call..he will be ever so grateful..but you will be expected to support and sympathise with the Brit killing IRA ..The Argentine claims on the Falklands..Spains claims on Gibralter..support some fiendish groups in the ME..pay homage to Putin..condemn as a crime the killing of some Islamic nutjobs who were planning a massacre on Whitehall..you will have to hate the armed forces and NATO..make friends with a whole bunch of murdering bastards who hate us..still 30pieces of silver aint ba bad price for your conscience is it0
