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  • flightpath01
    flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I was worried I was going to be burned out/bored of politics after the election, but this Labour leadership has been so energising.

    I have found it a bit depressing to be honest and have probably been posting less as a result. A competent government needs.a competent opposition. We don't have one.

    The really depressing thing is that it has been shown that there is a significant chunk of Labour that actually think like Jeremy: brainless, thoughtless anti-American, anti capitalist morons. Most large political parties have their share of nutters. Even a post UKIP Tory party has some. But for these idiots to get where they have shows a once mighty institution to be terminally sick.
    It depressed me as it reminded me of our IDS phase.

    But if they elect him, I think it will force Labour to confront reality, we weren't stupid enough to put IDS to the country.
    The damage is done - they don't have to elect him
  • flightpath01
    flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Charles said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    AndyJS said:

    This is the best August ever for politics fans. Great entertainment value.

    A Tory majority, the Lib Dems obliterated, a wholesale SNP takeover of Scotland, UKIP becoming a laughing stock, and Labour self-destructing and on the verge of electing a Trot as leader.

    Who would have predicted any of this a year ago?
    But Cameron's just lucky, isn't he...
    Sometimes the dam just bursts. Lets face it it took 4 or 5 shocks from Barnes Wallis' bouncing bomb.
  • Cyclefree
    Cyclefree Posts: 25,709
    JWisemann said:

    TGOHF said:

    Make a list of the enemies of Britain and the British way of life - chances are Jeremy is a fan.

    Err... Hezbollah and Hamas have nothing to do with the UK, in fact both are enemies of ISIS who ARE actually enemies of the UK and who were armed by the Tories in Syria and Libya. If you consider israel and the UK's interests to align, maybe, 70% of the population disagree though.

    The Tories armed Islamic extremists in Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and many more, all of whom pose a grave threat to normal UK citizens. Jeremy chatted to some people who represent no threat to the UK at all.

    And as has already been pointed out to you - though you have chosen to ignore it, it not fitting into whatever the world view is on whatever planet you're on - as Chair of Stop the War Corbyn does not want action taken by the US or its allies against IS, who are taking action against Yazidis, and are a threat to Britain.
    SouthamObserver said:

    It's really very simple: Corbyn is an anti-American class warrior whose world view is based on being for anything the Britidh government and/or the Americans oppose. Every now and again that means he will be correct about something, but that won't be because he's thought it through, it's because even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Most of the time, though, JC's approach means he spends a lot if comradely time with total scum. It is beyond baffling people like Nick Pslmer are happy to brush this off. Corbyn may have good manners, but he is a thoroughly nasty piece of work.

    Very well said.

  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    The_Apocalypse said:

    FPT:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    I can't believe someone at uni doesn't know what a blog is. Especially given how much my generation knows about technology and the internet in general.

    What are you up to at Uni? Seem quite interested in current affairs.

    Is education wasted if you take a job that doesn't need it? Only if you consider that all investments need to be repaid in cold cash rather than personal development.
    Politics and History :)

    I think for many, going to uni is better than being unemployed for 3 years. Also, it feels like having a degree is mandatory to even compete in the job market.
    kle4 said:

    All about dem reddit's and tumblr's now, innit?

    LOL.

    Reddit's website layout is terrible. God I hate that site.

    As for tumblr, the whole point of it is setting up your own blog, and then posting things (whether it be written posts, gifs, pictures etc) or reblogging the stuff your followers post (or reblog) which you can see on your dash. So anyone on tumblr who doesn't know what a blog is....well I'm worried for them.
    HurstLlama said:

    Well, Miss, I would class a nonsense degree as one which will be regarded as such by any potential employer. You can do your own research to find good examples but they are commonly found under the heading of Joint Honours issued by low grade universities; Medieval Pottery and Flower Arranging, Dance and Computer Studies, that sort of thing.

    Please don't tell me about the academic rigour that is an essential part of all degrees, I have sat on the boards verifying some of rubbish that an ex-poly flogs to innocent, unsuspecting dupes, I mean students.

    There are some ex-ploys that are decent e.g. Keele and Brunel. All the others tend be 'meh' though.

    And I've never met anyone who has done those degrees.

    I've a soft spot for University of Westminster
  • Cyclefree
    Cyclefree Posts: 25,709
    I wonder what Dan Jarvis MP thinks of the possibility of being led by a man who lobbied to let into the country an extremist who praised the death of British soldiers.
  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    Keele was not, I believe, an ex-Poly
  • flightpath01
    flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Danny565 said:

    12/51 on the posh school test.

    Unfortunately I couldn't score points for former PMs being alumni (the great Harold Wilson was the first ever Head Boy at my school).

    My admiration for Wilson goes up leaps and bounds every day. Not for what he believed in but for his ability to lead Labour. What a shambles they are. We must be clear about this - even (especially) the Corbynites hate Labour.

    BTW - whoever invented it, they should copyright 'Jezbollah'. An entire career in leftyism summed up in one word. Superb insight.
    And goodnight.
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    alex. said:

    My one doubt about the presumed Corbyn victory is that there is just the possibility that the Internet based polls are obscuring the fact that his success is being driven by social media, and there is likely to be a heavy skew in internet savvy vs non-internet savvy voters, which might call into question whether YouGov are missing a whole swathe of the selectorate. However there are so many of the former registered that it is probably irrelevant.

    My contacts are nearly all either established members or non-members - I've not heard much from the £3ers, and wonder how keen they really are. The established members have mostly been hesitating, and some still are, but about half of those who've decided have voted Corbyn and the rest have mostly voted Cooper, with a scattering to Burnham and Kendall. But Broxtowe is a largely middle-class constituency where Labour people tend to be either left-wing or Cooper-style moderates - I'd think Burnham will do better in the North. There's a correlation between length of membership and reluctance to vote Corbyn - people who've been members for 20-30 years are by definition serial loyalists and wary to hostile towards serial rebels. But equally they aren't minded to support any instant coups - some will drift away, some will stay loyal and hope for the best.

    There are on the other hand lots of non-members who say they'll join if Corbyn wins - mostly people who were members 10-20 years ago but drifted away. The Green Party is likely to lose a large chunk of its support, because they've largely dropped green issues in recent years in favour of being the True Left. Outflanking Corbyn on the left will be an interesting challenge for them.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Cyclefree said:

    I wonder what Dan Jarvis MP thinks of the possibility of being led by a man who lobbied to let into the country an extremist who praised the death of British soldiers.

    I suspect, his reaction will be similar to that, were he alive, of one of his predecessors in Barnsley, Roy Mason.

    Roy Mason, a true Labour man, a true patriot, the man who nearly defeated the IRA.
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    Charles said:

    @surbiton FPT

    I spend the weekend with someone who worked very closely with Starmer while he was at the CPS - she ran one of his stakeholders. She was not complimentary (despite being a swing voter). There are a lot of skeletons if you know where to look.

    Tell me of someone who does not have a skeleton or two in the cupboard. But something like rendition ? No.
    There are skeletons and there are skeletons.

  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    edited August 2015
    Compare and contrast

    “His appointment was greeted by outburst of violence and as he flew over Northern Ireland in a helicopter he remembers seeing Belfast burning, ” adds Brian. “It was one of the hardest jobs in government, but Mason remained firm but fair throughout. He came under a lot of criticism from the party whip when he hinted troops could be withdrawn, if Ulster didn’t do more themselves to combat terrorism, but he knew Northern Ireland was like a big gas oven ready to explode.

    “He was determined that the terrorists should be treated as criminals rather than political prisoners and during the three years he lived at Stormont he lived and breathed the Troubles. It was Martin McGuinness who famously said Mason ‘beat the s*** out of us’ which speaks volumes.

    http://bit.ly/1NFMj0r


    While Secretary of State for Defence Mason had been responsible for the introduction of SAS units into the 'bandit country' of South Armagh. At Stormont Mason was responsible for the tougher role taken by the security forces and authorised an increase in British Army covert tactics with the SAS allowed to operate throughout Northern Ireland. Mason's time in Northern Ireland was characterised by a reduction in violence;

    "in 1976 there were 297 deaths in Northern Ireland; in the next three years the figures were 111, 80, 120.[5] In 1977 he stood up to militant loyalists attempt to repeat their successful Ulster Workers Council strike tactic of 1974.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Mason#Northern_Ireland
  • alex.
    alex. Posts: 4,658
    Just out of interest, what is Corbyn's considered view on the merits of talking to Hitler in the 1930s?
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    Only 46 out of 51 :(

    No kilts, no blazers, no hats, cost me 3 points.
  • Cyclefree
    Cyclefree Posts: 25,709
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I wonder what Dan Jarvis MP thinks of the possibility of being led by a man who lobbied to let into the country an extremist who praised the death of British soldiers.

    I suspect, his reaction will be similar to that, were he alive, of one of his predecessors in Barnsley, Roy Mason.

    Roy Mason, a true Labour man, a true patriot, the man who nearly defeated the IRA.
    Yes - Roy Mason was a good Labour man, a good man. He really did have principles not the ersatz nonsense reminiscent of what a somewhat dim 17-year old wanting to epater the bourgeoise might cobble together that amounts to Corbyn's so-called principles.

  • Cyclefree
    Cyclefree Posts: 25,709
    alex. said:

    Just out of interest, what is Corbyn's considered view on the merits of talking to Hitler in the 1930s?

    He thinks it wrong that Poland was let into NATO. That will make for interesting discussions with Polish leaders should he become leader or, even, God forbid, PM.

  • The_Apocalypse
    The_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Keele was not, I believe, an ex-Poly

    Ah, I stand corrected.
  • SimonStClare
    SimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Fairly posh, 2 points deducted because my old school didn’t have borders or a resident swan.
  • MikeL
    MikeL Posts: 7,809
    The Times reporting Corbyn will hand pick Shadow Cabinet rather than bring back elections - so he can fill it with people who agree with him.
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    Cyclefree said:

    I wonder what Dan Jarvis MP thinks of the possibility of being led by a man who lobbied to let into the country an extremist who praised the death of British soldiers.

    The same as many in the party being led by a warmonger called Bliar. OK, not me. I resigned in March 2003.
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    MikeL said:

    The Times reporting Corbyn will hand pick Shadow Cabinet rather than bring back elections - so he can fill it with people who agree with him.

    You might be surprised !
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    MikeL said:

    The Times reporting Corbyn will hand pick Shadow Cabinet rather than bring back elections - so he can fill it with people who agree with him.

    A leader should be responsible for selecting their own core team. They can then be held responsible for the choices they have made.
  • MikeL
    MikeL Posts: 7,809
    Labour NEC Committee voted 4-4 re taking additional checks where canvass returns said applicants did not support Labour. So motion failed - against legal advice.

    May increase chances of legal challenge.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/19/leak-eveal-labour-ignored-legal-membership
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    oxfordsimon said:

    SeanT said:

    TwistedFireStopper said:

    I still think Labour need a Corbyn win. They're fecked at the minute- if you think the likes of Burnham and Cooper are the answer, then gawd knows what question you're asking and the whole drawn out leadership contest has been an embarrassment.
    Labour need something radical to shake them up, to make them realise just how out of touch they've become. Sure, he's unelectable, but Corbyn is that something to bring it all crashing down. It's gonna be a wild ride for the next few years, but Labour need to get on the horse!

    Just had drinks with two staunch but very thoughtful lefty friends (one of whom is almost UKIP on certain policies). Both of them definitely wanted Corbyn to win - their logic is that Labour needs a shake up, Corbyn is authentic, everyone hates Blair and the Blairites, the others are losers, he can energise the young, look at the grassroots surge.

    I agreed, but pointed out that Corbyn simply cannot win a GE in England.

    They in turn agreed with this (with caveats - *you never know* etc), but they thought Corbyn would ratchet the political discussion Left (even if he is unelectable) and that he would revive a dying party.

    It was persuasive. I now reckon Corbyn is going to win this.
    I have had similar conversations. One of my lefty friends won't vote for Corbyn but is hoping that it will lead to a split - and thus the creation of a new party of the centre left.

    He doesn't know whether he would be more at home in a Pure Labour or Realistic Labour party - but he wants that choice.
    In Europe, it would be fine. With FPTP, it will only give the Tories 1983/87 kind of majorities.
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    edited August 2015
    MikeL said:

    Labour NEC Committee voted 4-4 re taking additional checks where canvass returns said applicants did not support Labour. So motion failed - against legal advice.

    May increase chances of legal challenge.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/19/leak-eveal-labour-ignored-legal-membership

    Just because you said you wouldn't be voting Labour in April/May 2015, it doesn't mean that you aren't a Labour supporter. It just means that for that particular election, you weren't prepared to vote that that particular candidate.

    Canvas returns do not give you an insight into the heart and soul of the person who opens the door to you.

    I can imagine some people who might have been denied a vote due to a flawed checking process could lodge a legal complaint. It works both ways.
  • JEO
    JEO Posts: 3,656
    edited August 2015
    oxfordsimon said:

    MikeL said:

    Labour NEC Committee voted 4-4 re taking additional checks where canvass returns said applicants did not support Labour. So motion failed - against legal advice.

    May increase chances of legal challenge.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/19/leak-eveal-labour-ignored-legal-membership

    Just because you said you wouldn't be voting Labour in April/May 2015, it doesn't mean that you aren't a Labour supporter. It just means that for that particular election, you weren't prepared to vote that that particular candidate.

    Canvas returns do not give you an insight into the heart and soul of the person who opens the door to you.
    I would have thought people having their votes rejected on spurious grounds, after they had paid £3 for it would be the ones with a right to legal challenge. There was nothing in the original encouragement for these voters that they had to be historical Labour loyalists. In fact, the whole point of the three pound supporters was to reach out beyond Labour's core vote.
  • fitalass
    fitalass Posts: 4,444
    Just want to say thanks to @antifrank for his excellent article on the SNP on a previous PB thread, worth a read if you didn't catch it.

    Just posting an old tweet from Jeremy Corbyn without further comment...
    Twitter
    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 5 Mar 2010
    @BevaniteEllie @msgracefh: I believe homeo-meds works 4some ppl &that compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...
  • notme
    notme Posts: 3,293
    oxfordsimon said:

    MikeL said:

    The Times reporting Corbyn will hand pick Shadow Cabinet rather than bring back elections - so he can fill it with people who agree with him.

    A leader should be responsible for selecting their own core team. They can then be held responsible for the choices they have made.
    Labour tend not to operate like that, in local government its referred to as 'weak leader' model. The leader of the group is selected by the group, and his cabinet/executive of senior councillors are voted in by the group, but the group leader is free to choose which roles to give them.
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    notme said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    MikeL said:

    The Times reporting Corbyn will hand pick Shadow Cabinet rather than bring back elections - so he can fill it with people who agree with him.

    A leader should be responsible for selecting their own core team. They can then be held responsible for the choices they have made.
    Labour tend not to operate like that, in local government its referred to as 'weak leader' model. The leader of the group is selected by the group, and his cabinet/executive of senior councillors are voted in by the group, but the group leader is free to choose which roles to give them.
    They might not have operated like that in the past, but the move by Miliband to get rid of Shadow Cabinet elections was the right one. A leader has to have the right to build their own team.
  • dugarbandier
    dugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    fitalass said:

    Just want to say thanks to @antifrank for his excellent article on the SNP on a previous PB thread, worth a read if you didn't catch it.

    Just posting an old tweet from Jeremy Corbyn without further comment...
    Twitter
    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 5 Mar 2010
    @BevaniteEllie @msgracefh: I believe homeo-meds works 4some ppl &that compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

    well, they do work - as placebos. Of course the organic matter thing is bobbins.

    Wonder if he knows Prince Charles...
  • fitalass
    fitalass Posts: 4,444
    edited August 2015
    If you had told me even just a few months ago that Jeremy Corbyn could be next Leader of the Labour party, and with a hand picked Shadow Cabinet made up of every recent Labour Leaders awkward squad bingo card. I would then have had to ask what you were smoking! :) Right now, I hope someone is off buying David Cameron and George Osborne a Corbyn for Labour Leader key ring as a #LuckyCharm.
    MikeL said:

    The Times reporting Corbyn will hand pick Shadow Cabinet rather than bring back elections - so he can fill it with people who agree with him.

  • JEO
    JEO Posts: 3,656
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-33993460

    What's that? 12 arrested now? Only 188 to go.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,076
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Compare and contrast

    “His appointment was greeted by outburst of violence and as he flew over Northern Ireland in a helicopter he remembers seeing Belfast burning, ” adds Brian. “It was one of the hardest jobs in government, but Mason remained firm but fair throughout. He came under a lot of criticism from the party whip when he hinted troops could be withdrawn, if Ulster didn’t do more themselves to combat terrorism, but he knew Northern Ireland was like a big gas oven ready to explode.

    “He was determined that the terrorists should be treated as criminals rather than political prisoners and during the three years he lived at Stormont he lived and breathed the Troubles. It was Martin McGuinness who famously said Mason ‘beat the s*** out of us’ which speaks volumes.

    http://bit.ly/1NFMj0r


    While Secretary of State for Defence Mason had been responsible for the introduction of SAS units into the 'bandit country' of South Armagh. At Stormont Mason was responsible for the tougher role taken by the security forces and authorised an increase in British Army covert tactics with the SAS allowed to operate throughout Northern Ireland. Mason's time in Northern Ireland was characterised by a reduction in violence;

    "in 1976 there were 297 deaths in Northern Ireland; in the next three years the figures were 111, 80, 120.[5] In 1977 he stood up to militant loyalists attempt to repeat their successful Ulster Workers Council strike tactic of 1974.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Mason#Northern_Ireland

    Didn't the Army and RUC collude with Loyalist terrorists?
  • RodCrosby
    RodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited August 2015
    Kendall to join the Maquis...
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3204113/I-ll-join-Resistance-Corbyn-wins-vows-Kendall-Candidate-says-follow-party-modernisers-member-group.html
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yza5_cHCxOw
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    edited August 2015
    fitalass said:

    Just want to say thanks to @antifrank for his excellent article on the SNP on a previous PB thread, worth a read if you didn't catch it.

    Just posting an old tweet from Jeremy Corbyn without further comment...
    Twitter
    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 5 Mar 2010
    @BevaniteEllie @msgracefh: I believe homeo-meds works 4some ppl &that compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

    Wonder if he'll reappoint David Treddinick to chair the Health Select committee in the (very) unlikely event he becomes PM... LOL !

    Edit: Just remembered it doesn't work that way.

    Guess he can join Prince Charles and Treddy tho...
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Very sneaky if true:

    "Schools using community languages such as Urdu and Polish to boost their rankings in league tables, says leading academic"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-using-community-languages-such-as-urdu-and-polish-to-boost-their-rankings-in-league-tables-says-leading-academic-10462840.html
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    AndyJS said:

    Very sneaky if true:

    "Schools using community languages such as Urdu and Polish to boost their rankings in league tables, says leading academic"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-using-community-languages-such-as-urdu-and-polish-to-boost-their-rankings-in-league-tables-says-leading-academic-10462840.html

    Why is it sneaky?

    Testing the native language of students has been going on in schools for a very long time. It is important that those without English as their first language a proper grounding so that they can play a full part in the wider community as they enter adulthood.

    But as long as the Urdu and Polish courses are as demanding as those for French, German or Welsh, what is the problem?
  • Pong
    Pong Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015
    MikeL said:

    The Times reporting Corbyn will hand pick Shadow Cabinet rather than bring back elections - so he can fill it with people who agree with him.

    As opposed to the current tory cabinet?

    It's a very brave line of argument, that.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    oxfordsimon said:

    AndyJS said:

    Very sneaky if true:

    "Schools using community languages such as Urdu and Polish to boost their rankings in league tables, says leading academic"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-using-community-languages-such-as-urdu-and-polish-to-boost-their-rankings-in-league-tables-says-leading-academic-10462840.html

    Why is it sneaky?

    Testing the native language of students has been going on in schools for a very long time. It is important that those without English as their first language a proper grounding so that they can play a full part in the wider community as they enter adulthood.

    But as long as the Urdu and Polish courses are as demanding as those for French, German or Welsh, what is the problem?
    A Polish language GCSE course is designed for people whose first language is English not for people who already speak Polish very well because their family is originally from Poland.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    JEO said:

    This sounds like one out of SeanT's book. Slovakia will now only accept Christian migrants from Syria:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33986738

    Seems like a common sense position to me. If you want to move to Pakistan they very much prefer you to be a Muslim, for example.
  • JohnLoony
    JohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    AndyJS said:

    Are all the votes being counted in one place? 600,000 is a lot to handle at one facility. Even the old European constituencies didn't have that many voters.

    The Labour Party leadership election is being run by Electoral Reform Ballot Services, which has long and wide experience of running elections for Trade Unions and other organisations which involve millions of votes.

  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    AndyJS said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    AndyJS said:

    Very sneaky if true:

    "Schools using community languages such as Urdu and Polish to boost their rankings in league tables, says leading academic"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-using-community-languages-such-as-urdu-and-polish-to-boost-their-rankings-in-league-tables-says-leading-academic-10462840.html

    Why is it sneaky?

    Testing the native language of students has been going on in schools for a very long time. It is important that those without English as their first language a proper grounding so that they can play a full part in the wider community as they enter adulthood.

    But as long as the Urdu and Polish courses are as demanding as those for French, German or Welsh, what is the problem?
    A Polish language GCSE course is designed for people whose first language is English not for people who already speak Polish very well because their family is originally from Poland.
    But it is not really any different from someone with French heritage taking French GCSE.

    As long as the courses offered have proper academic rigour, I really don't see it is a problem.

    I am far more concerned that those without English as a first language are given adequate tuition to allow them to function fully in a modern society than worrying about a few GCSEs in native languages.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2015
    More problems:

    "Leaked notes reveal Labour ignored legal advice over new membership

    Party vulnerable to legal action after documents reveal senior members disregarded advice of lawyers to add extra verification stage for new members"

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/19/leak-eveal-labour-ignored-legal-membership
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    AndyJS said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    AndyJS said:

    Very sneaky if true:

    "Schools using community languages such as Urdu and Polish to boost their rankings in league tables, says leading academic"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-using-community-languages-such-as-urdu-and-polish-to-boost-their-rankings-in-league-tables-says-leading-academic-10462840.html

    Why is it sneaky?

    Testing the native language of students has been going on in schools for a very long time. It is important that those without English as their first language a proper grounding so that they can play a full part in the wider community as they enter adulthood.

    But as long as the Urdu and Polish courses are as demanding as those for French, German or Welsh, what is the problem?
    A Polish language GCSE course is designed for people whose first language is English not for people who already speak Polish very well because their family is originally from Poland.
    They will also be taking a GCSE English in their second language where as for native English speakers it will be their first language, so swings and roundabouts I think.
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Indigo said:

    AndyJS said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    AndyJS said:

    Very sneaky if true:

    "Schools using community languages such as Urdu and Polish to boost their rankings in league tables, says leading academic"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-using-community-languages-such-as-urdu-and-polish-to-boost-their-rankings-in-league-tables-says-leading-academic-10462840.html

    Why is it sneaky?

    Testing the native language of students has been going on in schools for a very long time. It is important that those without English as their first language a proper grounding so that they can play a full part in the wider community as they enter adulthood.

    But as long as the Urdu and Polish courses are as demanding as those for French, German or Welsh, what is the problem?
    A Polish language GCSE course is designed for people whose first language is English not for people who already speak Polish very well because their family is originally from Poland.
    They will also be taking a GCSE English in their second language where as for native English speakers it will be their first language, so swings and roundabouts I think.
    The focus on Urdu and Polish does make me somewhat uneasy as to the motives of the headline writer (and very possibly the academic)

    The figures do show they are the most popular languages - but the tone of the headline and the article does make me uncomfortable.

    Looking now in detail - the numbers are relatively small and so aren't really having a significant impact on league tables. The top 10 'community languages' represent just over 17000 exam entries out of a total of over 5 million GCSE entries. I really don't see how 0.34% of results can make that much of a difference to a league table position.

    There is no denying that the A* results for these community languages appear to be out of line with reasonable grade expectations. But is this really a serious issue? Or it is a bit of profile-raising from an academic with an agenda to push? And a bit of clickbait from the Independent?

  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    oxfordsimon said:

    MikeL said:

    Labour NEC Committee voted 4-4 re taking additional checks where canvass returns said applicants did not support Labour. So motion failed - against legal advice.

    May increase chances of legal challenge.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/19/leak-eveal-labour-ignored-legal-membership

    Just because you said you wouldn't be voting Labour in April/May 2015, it doesn't mean that you aren't a Labour supporter. It just means that for that particular election, you weren't prepared to vote that that particular candidate.

    Canvas returns do not give you an insight into the heart and soul of the person who opens the door to you.

    I can imagine some people who might have been denied a vote due to a flawed checking process could lodge a legal complaint. It works both ways.
    But what are the aims and value of Labour, anyway?

    - Redistribution of wealth through a progressive income tax?
    - A strong welfare system to ensure that no one gets left behind
    - Excellent education for all
    - A national healthcare system that is free at the point of demand]
    - A Britain that punches above its weight in the world

    I also believe in motherhood and apple pie
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    fitalass said:

    Just want to say thanks to @antifrank for his excellent article on the SNP on a previous PB thread, worth a read if you didn't catch it.

    Just posting an old tweet from Jeremy Corbyn without further comment...
    Twitter
    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 5 Mar 2010
    @BevaniteEllie @msgracefh: I believe homeo-meds works 4some ppl &that compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

    He's right: homeopathy does work for some people.

    Placebo does as well.
  • JackW
    JackW Posts: 14,787
    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    Just want to say thanks to @antifrank for his excellent article on the SNP on a previous PB thread, worth a read if you didn't catch it.

    Just posting an old tweet from Jeremy Corbyn without further comment...
    Twitter
    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 5 Mar 2010
    @BevaniteEllie @msgracefh: I believe homeo-meds works 4some ppl &that compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

    He's right: homeopathy does work for some people.

    Placebo does as well.
    Placebo Domingo - Opera on the NHS - interesting ....
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    Just want to say thanks to @antifrank for his excellent article on the SNP on a previous PB thread, worth a read if you didn't catch it.

    Just posting an old tweet from Jeremy Corbyn without further comment...
    Twitter
    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 5 Mar 2010
    @BevaniteEllie @msgracefh: I believe homeo-meds works 4some ppl &that compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

    He's right: homeopathy does work for some people.

    Placebo does as well.
    Placebo Domingo - Opera on the NHS - interesting ....
    Trials in surgery (cardiac, I think) have demonstrated it can improve clinical outcomes.
  • JackW
    JackW Posts: 14,787
    Charles said:

    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    Just want to say thanks to @antifrank for his excellent article on the SNP on a previous PB thread, worth a read if you didn't catch it.

    Just posting an old tweet from Jeremy Corbyn without further comment...
    Twitter
    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 5 Mar 2010
    @BevaniteEllie @msgracefh: I believe homeo-meds works 4some ppl &that compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

    He's right: homeopathy does work for some people.

    Placebo does as well.
    Placebo Domingo - Opera on the NHS - interesting ....
    Trials in surgery (cardiac, I think) have demonstrated it can improve clinical outcomes.
    For cardiac patients more topically surely Cilla was appropriate - "Anyone Who Had A Heart"

  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    watford30 said:

    Omnium said:

    If true surely Lord Hall must stand down. And then be taken to the Tower.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/bbc/11813249/Lord-Hall-threatened-to-overshadow-Budget-after-TV-licence-row.html

    30 years ago when there were only 3 channels, it would be a serious loss. But now, with hundred of alternatives on offer, the departure of BBC2 would be tolerable. Perhaps the corporation would focus on quality rather than quantity.

    Interesting that the threat was to reduce the availability of what the license fee payer is handing their hard earned cash over for, rather than slashing management numbers. It says a lot about the mind-set over at Broadcasting House.
    I very rarely watch the BBC at all now. I flicked through freeview last night. Watched a bit of Channel 5 and ITV2, my wife watched some E4.. BBC1, and BBC2, was utter dross. Even their documentaries are anodyne and poor now. And this is with us actively *wanting* to seek out those channels, because adverts hack us off so much.

    How much longer can the Beeb keep this up?
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    8/51 not posh.

    Jezza as PM would sort our the posh schools.
  • dugarbandier
    dugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    Just want to say thanks to @antifrank for his excellent article on the SNP on a previous PB thread, worth a read if you didn't catch it.

    Just posting an old tweet from Jeremy Corbyn without further comment...
    Twitter
    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 5 Mar 2010
    @BevaniteEllie @msgracefh: I believe homeo-meds works 4some ppl &that compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

    He's right: homeopathy does work for some people.

    Placebo does as well.
    Placebo Domingo - Opera on the NHS - interesting ....
    Trials in surgery (cardiac, I think) have demonstrated it can improve clinical outcomes.
    For cardiac patients more topically surely Cilla was appropriate - "Anyone Who Had A Heart"

    Cilla may well be as effective as homeopathy, as long as the patients believe it. The ethical dilemma is that doctors have to prescribe something they don't believe will do any good and tell the patients it will help them.

    Cilla is probably cheaper than sugar pills tho
  • dugarbandier
    dugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    8/51 not posh.

    Jezza as PM would sort our the posh schools.
    there might be other priorities... though I suppose he might start by ending the charitable status. On the other hand the posh schools are a pretty good source of socialists, so it might be counter-productive in the long term :)
  • logical_song
    logical_song Posts: 10,082
    Pulpstar said:

    fitalass said:

    Just want to say thanks to @antifrank for his excellent article on the SNP on a previous PB thread, worth a read if you didn't catch it.

    Just posting an old tweet from Jeremy Corbyn without further comment...
    Twitter
    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 5 Mar 2010
    @BevaniteEllie @msgracefh: I believe homeo-meds works 4some ppl &that compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

    Wonder if he'll reappoint David Treddinick to chair the Health Select committee in the (very) unlikely event he becomes PM... LOL !

    Edit: Just remembered it doesn't work that way.

    Guess he can join Prince Charles and Treddy tho...
    Homeopathy meds are based on just water based. I guess that if you tell someone that it will make them better it would work as a placebo. I just hope that the NHS is spending too much on these water derived 'meds'.
    I guess 'convential' is just a typo but the use of 'compliments' is just wrong.
    At least so far Corbyn has had no power to put his loony beliefs into practise, unlike Tredinnick. Why the Tories let him get anywhere near the Science and Technology committee beats me.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Tredinnick_(politician)
    "Tredinnick's appointment to the Science and Technology Committee also drew criticism. Andy McSmith in The Independent cited Tredinnick's view that homeopathy could cure HIV, tuberculosis, malaria, urinary infections, diarrhoea, skin eruptions, diabetes, epilepsy, eye infections, intestinal parasites, cancer, and gangrene among other conditions, and quoted Imran Khan, former head of the Campaign for Science and Engineering, as saying that "someone with such incredibly odd views is not helpful."[7] Tom Whipple in The Times said his appointment caused despair,[8] whilst Elizabeth Gibney in the Times Higher Education quoted the Skeptical Voter website as saying that Tredinnick is "perhaps the worst example of scientific illiteracy in government."[9] Lord Winston described his beliefs in homeopathy and astrology as "lunatic".[21]"
    " He was once a Parliamentary Private Secretary, but was forced to resign in July 1994 after it emerged that he had abused parliamentary privilege by agreeing to accept payment of £1,000 from an undercover reporter to ask questions in Parliament about a non-existent drug."
  • SquareRoot
    SquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    This could be trouble for Mr Corbyn. Indeed it should be. It depends how many vote immediately and how many wait for events to unfold.

  • Kevin_McCandless
    Kevin_McCandless Posts: 392
    JohnLoony said:

    AndyJS said:

    Are all the votes being counted in one place? 600,000 is a lot to handle at one facility. Even the old European constituencies didn't have that many voters.

    The Labour Party leadership election is being run by Electoral Reform Ballot Services, which has long and wide experience of running elections for Trade Unions and other organisations which involve millions of votes.

    Since the ballots are being sent out in waves, I suppose they're also being counted in waves too?

  • ThreeQuidder
    ThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    oxfordsimon said:

    MikeL said:

    Labour NEC Committee voted 4-4 re taking additional checks where canvass returns said applicants did not support Labour. So motion failed - against legal advice.

    May increase chances of legal challenge.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/19/leak-eveal-labour-ignored-legal-membership

    Just because you said you wouldn't be voting Labour in April/May 2015, it doesn't mean that you aren't a Labour supporter. It just means that for that particular election, you weren't prepared to vote that that particular candidate.

    Canvas returns do not give you an insight into the heart and soul of the person who opens the door to you.

    I can imagine some people who might have been denied a vote due to a flawed checking process could lodge a legal complaint. It works both ways.
    Absolutely. It's only a minority of people who unthinkingly vote for their tribe every time.
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,250
    I see from the Independent that a bunch of bumbling incompetents are saying that an establishment conspiracy means that they are being perceived as bumbling incompetents.

    A note to the great and good of the Chilcott Inquiry: if you do not want to be seen as a bunch of bumbling incompetents, communicate with people, set a timetable for publication and, most of all, publish your blooming report, you bunch of bumbling incompetents.

    If people are delaying the publication, say who is delaying the publication (not why), so the public can trust you are doing your job (which you are being paid very amply for).

    These overpaid bumbling incompetents need to learn that the longer the report takes to come out, the more the report will appear discredited to the public as a whole, and the delays will be used by whoever is finally criticised as a sign that deals have been done behind closed doors.

    These bumbling incompetents may not be so bumbling or incompetent if they were to publish and be praised, rather then delay and be damned.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-inquiry-leading-figures-in-british-political-establishment-accused-of-plotting-to-discredit-investigation-into-iraq-war-10462894.html
  • Freggles
    Freggles Posts: 3,487
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    8/51 not posh.

    Jezza as PM would sort our the posh schools.
    7/51
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JosiasJessop said:

    I see from the Independent that a bunch of bumbling incompetents are saying that an establishment conspiracy means that they are being perceived as bumbling incompetents.

    A note to the great and good of the Chilcott Inquiry: if you do not want to be seen as a bunch of bumbling incompetents, communicate with people, set a timetable for publication and, most of all, publish your blooming report, you bunch of bumbling incompetents.

    If people are delaying the publication, say who is delaying the publication (not why), so the public can trust you are doing your job (which you are being paid very amply for).

    These overpaid bumbling incompetents need to learn that the longer the report takes to come out, the more the report will appear discredited to the public as a whole, and the delays will be used by whoever is finally criticised as a sign that deals have been done behind closed doors.

    These bumbling incompetents may not be so bumbling or incompetent if they were to publish and be praised, rather then delay and be damned.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-inquiry-leading-figures-in-british-political-establishment-accused-of-plotting-to-discredit-investigation-into-iraq-war-10462894.html

    I think we need a judge led enquiry into the delays in judge led enquiries!

    It's time someone leaked it.
  • Financier
    Financier Posts: 3,916
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    8/51 not posh.

    Jezza as PM would sort our the posh schools.

    This is a ridiculous quiz. My grammar school education gave 21/51 and fairly posh with the conclusion that a lot of my friends would have double-barreled names.

    I had no friends with such names and recall only 1 boy out of 750 having such a name.
  • ydoethur
    ydoethur Posts: 74,259
    edited August 2015
    @The_Apocalypse - very much a pedant's point, but Keele isn't a former polytechnic. It was founded from scratch in the 1960s. There was a Stoke Polytechnic (I think that was what it was called) which merged with some colleges in Stafford and Lichfield to form the University of Staffordshire in 1992.

    The best former polytechnic is probably Hertfordshire - next best would be Oxford Brookes (I would actually say, in history at least, that it's a better university than its more famous rival now, although that will doubtless astonish some people on here). Otherwise, they tend to be very good at specialised subjects, but a bit rubbish beyond that - for example, if you want to do a teacher training course or a higher degree in teaching, Gloucestershire and Cumbria are fine, but don't do a liberal arts course there. Coventry is great for the sciences, not the humanities.

    But it depends really on what you want and where you are at in your stage of intellectual development. For some students whom I think might be late bloomers, I recommend going to an ex-poly to do a BA, because the support systems and the quality of the teaching tend to be rather better (no PhD students to teach modules for £15 an hour!) and that will help them. Then, if they do blossom, they can go and do an MA at a Russell Group university, and put that as their main degree on a job application. It works.
  • SouthamObserver
    SouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    SquareRoot said:

    This could be trouble for Mr Corbyn. Indeed it should be. It depends how many vote immediately and how many wait for events to unfold.

    No, Nick Palmer and the Useful Idiots will see JC home. They have convinced themselves that a hard left class warrior devoid of any affection for or belief in the UK, whose outlook is formed entirely on the back of anti-Americanism, is merely a misunderstood peacemaker willing to get his hands dirty to make the world a better place. Eventually, as the evidence of what JC has said, the causes he has endorsed and the people he has hung out with accumulates, Nick and co will snap out of their reverie to realise just how foolish they have been. At that stage JC will depart, but not before having done huge damage to Labour's organisation, reputation and standing.

  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Financier said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    8/51 not posh.

    Jezza as PM would sort our the posh schools.

    This is a ridiculous quiz. My grammar school education gave 21/51 and fairly posh with the conclusion that a lot of my friends would have double-barreled names.

    I had no friends with such names and recall only 1 boy out of 750 having such a name.
    Double barrelled names are increasingly downmarket.

  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Good morning, everyone.

    Do we know what proportion have cast their votes [or, how quickly people voted last time]?
  • Financier
    Financier Posts: 3,916
    JosiasJessop said:

    I see from the Independent that a bunch of bumbling incompetents are saying that an establishment conspiracy means that they are being perceived as bumbling incompetents.

    A note to the great and good of the Chilcott Inquiry: if you do not want to be seen as a bunch of bumbling incompetents, communicate with people, set a timetable for publication and, most of all, publish your blooming report, you bunch of bumbling incompetents.

    If people are delaying the publication, say who is delaying the publication (not why), so the public can trust you are doing your job (which you are being paid very amply for).

    These overpaid bumbling incompetents need to learn that the longer the report takes to come out, the more the report will appear discredited to the public as a whole, and the delays will be used by whoever is finally criticised as a sign that deals have been done behind closed doors.

    These bumbling incompetents may not be so bumbling or incompetent if they were to publish and be praised, rather then delay and be damned.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-inquiry-leading-figures-in-british-political-establishment-accused-of-plotting-to-discredit-investigation-into-iraq-war-10462894.html

    This sounds like a cover up to protect the cover-uppers. Time limits should have been put on the Maxwellisation to make sure lawyers do not dawdle as usual.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Financier, Chilcott should have his pay reduced to 0, then make him pay for every week the report's unpublished.

    Pay me £300,000 to be late publishing something and the damned thing would never be published (though I hope I'd make an honourable exception for something as important as the Iraq War).
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Kevin_McCandless said:

    JohnLoony said:

    AndyJS said:

    Are all the votes being counted in one place? 600,000 is a lot to handle at one facility. Even the old European constituencies didn't have that many voters.

    The Labour Party leadership election is being run by Electoral Reform Ballot Services, which has long and wide experience of running elections for Trade Unions and other organisations which involve millions of votes.
    Since the ballots are being sent out in waves, I suppose they're also being counted in waves too?
    As the election is under AV, all they can do is count first preferences until all ballots are received.

    One assumes that ERS (who do a lot of these sort of elections) have a big hall that will resemble the usual election night count, but not sure if they print out the online votes as they arrive, or keep them in the computer to add to the physical counts at the end.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    edited August 2015
    foxinsoxuk said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    I see from the Independent that a bunch of bumbling incompetents are saying that an establishment conspiracy means that they are being perceived as bumbling incompetents.

    A note to the great and good of the Chilcott Inquiry: if you do not want to be seen as a bunch of bumbling incompetents, communicate with people, set a timetable for publication and, most of all, publish your blooming report, you bunch of bumbling incompetents.

    If people are delaying the publication, say who is delaying the publication (not why), so the public can trust you are doing your job (which you are being paid very amply for).

    These overpaid bumbling incompetents need to learn that the longer the report takes to come out, the more the report will appear discredited to the public as a whole, and the delays will be used by whoever is finally criticised as a sign that deals have been done behind closed doors.

    These bumbling incompetents may not be so bumbling or incompetent if they were to publish and be praised, rather then delay and be damned.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-inquiry-leading-figures-in-british-political-establishment-accused-of-plotting-to-discredit-investigation-into-iraq-war-10462894.html

    I think we need a judge led enquiry into the delays in judge led enquiries!

    It's time someone leaked it.
    There must be someone involved with nothing to lose, and a few papers that would fall over themselves to publish anything from it not explicitly 'classified'.

    It's quite ridiculous we've not seen it yet, a useful exercise early in the new Parliament might be to call Chilcot to a Select Committee or ever to the Bar of the House and have him explain under Privilege what (or, more likely, whom) is keeping the report from publication.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Claire_Phipps: Clincher #WotWonIt https://t.co/ovNyyNeKSy
  • Slackbladder
    Slackbladder Posts: 9,800
    edited August 2015
    SouthamObserver said:

    SquareRoot said:

    This could be trouble for Mr Corbyn. Indeed it should be. It depends how many vote immediately and how many wait for events to unfold.

    No, Nick Palmer and the Useful Idiots will see JC home. They have convinced themselves that a hard left class warrior devoid of any affection for or belief in the UK, whose outlook is formed entirely on the back of anti-Americanism, is merely a misunderstood peacemaker willing to get his hands dirty to make the world a better place. Eventually, as the evidence of what JC has said, the causes he has endorsed and the people he has hung out with accumulates, Nick and co will snap out of their reverie to realise just how foolish they have been. At that stage JC will depart, but not before having done huge damage to Labour's organisation, reputation and standing.

    The 'Ed Milliband's dad hates the UK' was dirty, but probably effective attack.

    Corbyn is Ed Miliband's dad on steriods, and it's entirely legitimate.
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    ydoethur said:

    @The_Apocalypse - very much a pedant's point, but Keele isn't a former polytechnic. It was founded from scratch in the 1960s. There was a Stoke Polytechnic (I think that was what it was called) which merged with some colleges in Stafford and Lichfield to form the University of Staffordshire in 1992.

    The best former polytechnic is probably Hertfordshire - next best would be Oxford Brookes (I would actually say, in history at least, that it's a better university than its more famous rival now, although that will doubtless astonish some people on here). Otherwise, they tend to be very good at specialised subjects, but a bit rubbish beyond that - for example, if you want to do a teacher training course or a higher degree in teaching, Gloucestershire and Cumbria are fine, but don't do a liberal arts course there. Coventry is great for the sciences, not the humanities.

    But it depends really on what you want and where you are at in your stage of intellectual development. For some students whom I think might be late bloomers, I recommend going to an ex-poly to do a BA, because the support systems and the quality of the teaching tend to be rather better (no PhD students to teach modules for £15 an hour!) and that will help them. Then, if they do blossom, they can go and do an MA at a Russell Group university, and put that as their main degree on a job application. It works.

    It was North Staffs Poly that became Staffordshire Uni. I had friends who were junior academics there. Both now have chairs at a Russell group Uni. Brunel was not a Poly either.

    Rather like the school quiz though, it is not where you come from that matters, it is where you are going. Some who go to former Polys use it as a step to higher things, for other students it is a few years of dossing about watching Countdown.


  • ydoethur
    ydoethur Posts: 74,259
    SouthamObserver said:

    SquareRoot said:

    This could be trouble for Mr Corbyn. Indeed it should be. It depends how many vote immediately and how many wait for events to unfold.

    No, Nick Palmer and the Useful Idiots will see JC home. They have convinced themselves that a hard left class warrior devoid of any affection for or belief in the UK, whose outlook is formed entirely on the back of anti-Americanism, is merely a misunderstood peacemaker willing to get his hands dirty to make the world a better place. Eventually, as the evidence of what JC has said, the causes he has endorsed and the people he has hung out with accumulates, Nick and co will snap out of their reverie to realise just how foolish they have been. At that stage JC will depart, but not before having done huge damage to Labour's organisation, reputation and standing.

    SO - win or lose, the mere fact that he has been making all the running in this election has already done appalling damage to Labour's organisation, reputation and standing. If he wins, it gets worse, because he's got no experience of executive office so the Labour organisation will implode and the press will massacre him which will wreck what little is left of the party's credibility. If he loses narrowly, it's hardly better as Labour will embark on an extremely nasty civil war. If he comes third (A) we will be astonished and (B) Labour might just be rescued. But that's clearly not going to happen.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Doethur, don't forget if Mascara Man becomes leader, he's said he'll have Corbyn on-board.

    Which means he either does, and things are mad [and Corbyn may become leader later], or he only pays lip service and the far left kick up a fuss and there's civil war anyway.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    Oh dear

    @politicshome: “You can turn up at events and people can be on the platform you didn't know were going to be on the platform,” argues @HackneyAbbott.
  • ydoethur
    ydoethur Posts: 74,259
    foxinsoxuk said:

    ydoethur said:

    @The_Apocalypse - very much a pedant's point, but Keele isn't a former polytechnic. It was founded from scratch in the 1960s. There was a Stoke Polytechnic (I think that was what it was called) which merged with some colleges in Stafford and Lichfield to form the University of Staffordshire in 1992.

    The best former polytechnic is probably Hertfordshire - next best would be Oxford Brookes (I would actually say, in history at least, that it's a better university than its more famous rival now, although that will doubtless astonish some people on here). Otherwise, they tend to be very good at specialised subjects, but a bit rubbish beyond that - for example, if you want to do a teacher training course or a higher degree in teaching, Gloucestershire and Cumbria are fine, but don't do a liberal arts course there. Coventry is great for the sciences, not the humanities.

    But it depends really on what you want and where you are at in your stage of intellectual development. For some students whom I think might be late bloomers, I recommend going to an ex-poly to do a BA, because the support systems and the quality of the teaching tend to be rather better (no PhD students to teach modules for £15 an hour!) and that will help them. Then, if they do blossom, they can go and do an MA at a Russell Group university, and put that as their main degree on a job application. It works.

    It was North Staffs Poly that became Staffordshire Uni. I had friends who were junior academics there. Both now have chairs at a Russell group Uni. Brunel was not a Poly either.

    Rather like the school quiz though, it is not where you come from that matters, it is where you are going. Some who go to former Polys use it as a step to higher things, for other students it is a few years of dossing about watching Countdown.


    Thanks for the correction. I agree on your second point. In fact, as I said, for those not at the top end a bachelor's degree at a poly, with better teaching practices (those young, hungry academics and no PhD students teaching the courses) better support systems (the pastoral care system at one redbrick of my acquaintance seemed not to have been modified since 1914) and a bunch of people who are either about your level or maybe a bit below intellectually can be just the ticket. And then an Master's at a RGU is a serious possibility.
  • Slackbladder
    Slackbladder Posts: 9,800
    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @politicshome: “You can turn up at events and people can be on the platform you didn't know were going to be on the platform,” argues @HackneyAbbott.

    Weak excuse... Abbott/Corbyn etc would never share a platform with the BNP for example.
  • ydoethur
    ydoethur Posts: 74,259
    Mr Dancer, true. But if Corbyn doesn't win, I think it will be Cooper that stops him. Burnham appears to have completely lost it.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Doethur, I hope not.

    Don't fancy 5 years of identity politics.
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    Freggles said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    8/51 not posh.

    Jezza as PM would sort our the posh schools.
    7/51
    I got 46/51

    Your school was really, really posh. You probably went to a very expensive private school, possibly with members of the royal family.

    But I think it is flawed: are there any schools where you have kilts, blazers and hats? You'd need all of them to get full marks...

    p.s. should I get bonus points as both the 'famous alumni' pictured were at my school? And the 'founder's day' photo, which is actually a photo of our celebrations for George III's birthday rather than the Founder's Day as such...
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Charles, you elitist decadent pigdog, you ;)
  • ydoethur
    ydoethur Posts: 74,259
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Doethur, I hope not.

    Don't fancy 5 years of identity politics.

    Nor do I Mr Dancer. But if the alternatives are five years of Trotskyism or five years of totally mindless clichés, suddenly it looks like the least bad option.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    JosiasJessop said:

    I see from the Independent that a bunch of bumbling incompetents are saying that an establishment conspiracy means that they are being perceived as bumbling incompetents.

    A note to the great and good of the Chilcott Inquiry: if you do not want to be seen as a bunch of bumbling incompetents, communicate with people, set a timetable for publication and, most of all, publish your blooming report, you bunch of bumbling incompetents.

    If people are delaying the publication, say who is delaying the publication (not why), so the public can trust you are doing your job (which you are being paid very amply for).

    These overpaid bumbling incompetents need to learn that the longer the report takes to come out, the more the report will appear discredited to the public as a whole, and the delays will be used by whoever is finally criticised as a sign that deals have been done behind closed doors.

    These bumbling incompetents may not be so bumbling or incompetent if they were to publish and be praised, rather then delay and be damned.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-inquiry-leading-figures-in-british-political-establishment-accused-of-plotting-to-discredit-investigation-into-iraq-war-10462894.html

    Very much seconded.
    ThreeQuidder said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    MikeL said:

    Labour NEC Committee voted 4-4 re taking additional checks where canvass returns said applicants did not support Labour. So motion failed - against legal advice.

    May increase chances of legal challenge.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/19/leak-eveal-labour-ignored-legal-membership

    Just because you said you wouldn't be voting Labour in April/May 2015, it doesn't mean that you aren't a Labour supporter. It just means that for that particular election, you weren't prepared to vote that that particular candidate.

    Canvas returns do not give you an insight into the heart and soul of the person who opens the door to you.

    I can imagine some people who might have been denied a vote due to a flawed checking process could lodge a legal complaint. It works both ways.
    Absolutely. It's only a minority of people who unthinkingly vote for their tribe every time.
    If only.
  • richardDodd
    richardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited August 2015
    Scott P... Only an idiot would turn up for one of those shows without knowing who the rest of the panel were... if only to research them..Abbott plays a convincing fool tho...
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Doethur, I think I'd prefer Burnham. Identity politics is poisonous. Clichés less so.
  • Pong
    Pong Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015
    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    Just want to say thanks to @antifrank for his excellent article on the SNP on a previous PB thread, worth a read if you didn't catch it.

    Just posting an old tweet from Jeremy Corbyn without further comment...
    Twitter
    Jeremy Corbyn MP ‏@jeremycorbyn 5 Mar 2010
    @BevaniteEllie @msgracefh: I believe homeo-meds works 4some ppl &that compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

    He's right: homeopathy does work for some people.

    Placebo does as well.
    The placebo effects of prayer are well documented.
  • Financier
    Financier Posts: 3,916
    The Chilcott report was successfully held up so that it was not published before the 2015GE, and now looks as if the same is happening for the Labour leadership elections. What is the next impediment for the interested parties involved?
  • Financier
    Financier Posts: 3,916
    The troubled Co-operative Bank has reported bigger losses, in part due to higher legal costs.

    Pre-tax losses for the first six months of the year were £204.2m, compared with losses of £77m a year earlier. The figure was slightly better than expected.

    It included losses of £38.2m on sales of assets needed to reduce the bank's overall levels of debt.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33999141

    So probably little extra money for Labour there.
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,250
    Charles said:

    Freggles said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    8/51 not posh.

    Jezza as PM would sort our the posh schools.
    7/51
    I got 46/51

    Your school was really, really posh. You probably went to a very expensive private school, possibly with members of the royal family.

    But I think it is flawed: are there any schools where you have kilts, blazers and hats? You'd need all of them to get full marks...

    p.s. should I get bonus points as both the 'famous alumni' pictured were at my school? And the 'founder's day' photo, which is actually a photo of our celebrations for George III's birthday rather than the Founder's Day as such...
    You should get twenty extra points just for knowing that.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    Financier said:

    The troubled Co-operative Bank has reported bigger losses, in part due to higher legal costs.

    Pre-tax losses for the first six months of the year were £204.2m, compared with losses of £77m a year earlier. The figure was slightly better than expected.

    It included losses of £38.2m on sales of assets needed to reduce the bank's overall levels of debt.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33999141

    So probably little extra money for Labour there.

    The 17 Coop Mps could of course go their own way as the last vestiges of sane Labour.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Charles said:

    Freggles said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    8/51 not posh.

    Jezza as PM would sort our the posh schools.
    7/51
    I got 46/51

    Your school was really, really posh. You probably went to a very expensive private school, possibly with members of the royal family.

    But I think it is flawed: are there any schools where you have kilts, blazers and hats? You'd need all of them to get full marks...

    p.s. should I get bonus points as both the 'famous alumni' pictured were at my school? And the 'founder's day' photo, which is actually a photo of our celebrations for George III's birthday rather than the Founder's Day as such...
    Which of the five were you missing? French lessons? Titter... (or should I say 'ricaner')
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    ydoethur said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Doethur, I hope not.

    Don't fancy 5 years of identity politics.

    Nor do I Mr Dancer. But if the alternatives are five years of Trotskyism or five years of totally mindless clichés, suddenly it looks like the least bad option.
    Vote Kendall! Neither cliches, nor Trotskyism. She did her serious face a bit too much early on, she is better when she is more herself like in guidos caption contest photo (some great comments too)

    http://order-order.com/2015/08/14/friday-caption-contest-kendall-bounceback-edition/#:SZEWytolTOAnuA
  • Freggles
    Freggles Posts: 3,487
    Charles said:

    Freggles said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    8/51 not posh.

    Jezza as PM would sort our the posh schools.
    7/51
    I got 46/51

    Your school was really, really posh. You probably went to a very expensive private school, possibly with members of the royal family.

    But I think it is flawed: are there any schools where you have kilts, blazers and hats? You'd need all of them to get full marks...

    p.s. should I get bonus points as both the 'famous alumni' pictured were at my school? And the 'founder's day' photo, which is actually a photo of our celebrations for George III's birthday rather than the Founder's Day as such...
    You are posh.
    I feel sorry for the kids who get your kind of background who still manage to perform poorly... On the other hand they usually still get high paying jobs
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Foxinsox, if I were a Labour voter, I'd just be backing Kendall in this contest.
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    I only got 28. I'd forgotten we had a Founder's Day.
    Charles said:

    Freggles said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD

    You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!

    Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.

    8/51 not posh.

    Jezza as PM would sort our the posh schools.
    7/51
    I got 46/51

    Your school was really, really posh. You probably went to a very expensive private school, possibly with members of the royal family.

    But I think it is flawed: are there any schools where you have kilts, blazers and hats? You'd need all of them to get full marks...

    p.s. should I get bonus points as both the 'famous alumni' pictured were at my school? And the 'founder's day' photo, which is actually a photo of our celebrations for George III's birthday rather than the Founder's Day as such...
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    I got 16 - but I can't remember if my school had an orchestra - it probably did but I wouldn't have noticed as I'm not posh or musical.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    F1: just from the gossip column: it seems like the sport will shift to a ground effect approach from 2017.

    That could be a sea change in relative performance. It could provide a golden opportunity for McLaren to bounce back, especially as they hired Prodromou[sp], formerly the top aero chap working under Adrian Newey at Red Bull.
  • The_Apocalypse
    The_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    @ydoethur and @foxinsoxuk
    Interesting posts - my apologies on getting Keele and Brunel wrong as ex-polys.

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