politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The NHS at 65: What do we really think of it?

Miliband calls in police to investigate alleged Falkirk crimes.

He is showing the strength of Julius Caesar.

Weeny, Weedy, Weaky.

AveryLP
About time you returned to your desk at tory HQ and leave commenting to us grown ups

Ed follows where others lead

‏@GuidoFawkes
Tories say Henry Smith MP has already reffered matter to police, Labour heard from media sources and then to get on front foot did same.

Looks like Ed's fighting like Mike said he would and Cameron never does

or

Tories say Henry Smith MP has already reffered matter to police, Labour heard from media sources and then to get on front foot did same.

PB enjoys these scandals doesn't it....

tim said:

We, the British people think very differently of it than they, the PB Tories do.
The disconnect between the right on here and the public over the NHS, the BBC, Education and so on is stark.


And there's some dire numbers today for the Tories today on the NHS


41% of people surveyed thought the services provided by the NHS have got worse since David Cameron became Prime Minister, compared to just 11% who thought service have got better.

See more at: http://survation.com/2013/07/happy-65th-birthday-nhs-do-the-public-still-support-the-founding-principles/#sthash.ln3G1kub.dpuf




68.9% of 2010 Lib Dems think the NHS has got worse under Cameron.

6.9% of 2010 Lib Dems think it has got better under Cameron.

So patients can die unnecessarily due to negligent care, failures in management and a refusal of regulators to take proper action, provided qualitative and uninformed popular opinion continues to think the NHS 'can only get better' under Labour?

Let's all dance the Danny Boy dance and pretend everything is Olympic Gold in the NHS shall we?

I think the most interesting thing is the Survation poll on the NHS which seems to be damning to the coalitions handling of this glorious institute.
Also this organisation's polling makes surprising reading but if you are conservative inclined i wouldn't bother

Scott_P said:

@GuidoFawkes
Tories referred Falkirk frauds to police yesterday. Labour HQ playing catch up with CCHQ when it comes to union bashing.

Weak, weak, weak.

Has one of tim's lines ever unravelled quite so quickly???

"Looks like Ed's fighting like Mike said he would and Cameron never does"

Tony Blair, TGWU.

Day 3 or 4 on the Unite/Falkirk/Labour story.
Yet Tim assured us on the 2nd july that "The story, like Len, is overblown."

Can we no longer rely on farmer tim to be the purveyor of truth about Labour?

AveryLP said:

Miliband calls in police to investigate alleged Falkirk crimes.

He is showing the strength of Julius Caesar.

Weeny, Weedy, Weaky.

@Avery

LOL - a classic Mr Pole

From Unite's political report...candidates they supported (in some cases along with other Unions) in recent selections:


Lewisham Deptford: Vicky Foxcroft SELECTED
Hornsey & Wood Green: Catherine West SELECTED
Bermondsey & Old Southwark: Gavin Edwards (Unison/Unite) DEFEATED (4th place)
Enfield North: Annajoy David DEFEATED

Bury North: Jane Lewis DEFEATED
City of Chester: Chris Matheson SELECTED
Manchester Withington: Angela Rayner (Unison) DEFEATED
Warrington South: Sharon Connor DEFEATED
Weaver Vale: Rebecca Long Bailey DEFEATED (third place)
Wirral West: Christine Spriggs DEFEATED

Brighton Kemptwon: Nancy Platts (Unite/TSSA) SELECTED
Hove: Simon Burgess (GMB) DEFEATED

Bristol South: Amanda Ramsay DEFEATED
Plymouth Sutton and Devenport: Luke Pollard (GMB) SELECTED

Birmingham Yardley: Eleonor Smith (Unison) DEFEATED
Halesowen and co: Stephanie Peacock (GMB/Unite) SELECTED
North Warwickshire: Mike O'Brian SELECTED
Wolverhampton SW: Rob Marris SELECTED

Sheffield Hallam: Martin Mayer DEFEATED

For selection currently taking place, they are backing:

Ilford North: Mike Hedges
Finchley: Alan Or Bach
Brent Central: Kate Osamor
Lancaster: Cath Smith
Burnley: Julie Cooper
Pendle: Azhar Ali
Blackpool North: Chris Webb (CWU/Unite)
Kingswood: Rowenna Hayward (GMB)
Stourbridge: Pete Lowe (Unison/Unite)
Dudley South: Natasha Milward (Unison/Unite)
Sherwood: Lachlan Morrison (UCATT)
Amber Valley: Julia Long
Cleethorpes: Ian Grant
Pudsey: Jamie Hanley
Elmet and Rothwell: Veronica King
Dewsbury: Paula Sheriff (GMB)
Dumfriesshire: Archie Bryburgh
East Dunbartonshire: Alan Moir (ASLEF)
Falkirk: Karie Murphy
Cardiff Central: Jo Stevens (GMB)

I can add that they have nominated Sheila Boswell in Battarsea.

Another Survation pollcame out today - apologies if old news:

Headline Voting Intention Details (changes since June 2nd)

Conservative: 23% (-2%)
Labour: 36% (nc)
Liberal Democrats: 10% (nc)
UKIP: 22% (+2%)
Others: 10% (nc)

- See more at: http://survation.com/2013/07/latest-voting-intention-results-tories-fall-to-record-low-in-polling-results-as-support-for-ukip-remains-strong/#sthash.jGKpblUR.dpuf

So Falkirkgate isn't (yet) having an effect

Interesting Staggers piece on what laws UNITE might have broken

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/07/labour-hands-falkirk-report-police-what-laws-could-unite-have-broken

Ed's fight

Swiftly and decisively dithered for 3 days over Watson

Swiftly and decisively bounced into following the Tories in talking to the Police

Weak, weak, weak.

tim said:

Mike was right and Ed will fight.

Coffee House ‏@Spectator_CH
‘Len McCluskey should be facing up to his responsibilities’: Ed Miliband stands up to Unite http://specc.ie/12qtSV1

Ed Miliband’s supporters have been arguing that he needs to show muscle on the Unite row before his opponents successfully argue that he is a weak leader in thrall to the union puppet masters. While Conservative MPs joked abut Tom Watson’s ‘Buddha’ comments in the Chamber this morning, the Labour leader did speak out about Len McCluskey and the Falkirk row. To his credit, he has shown that muscle:

Compare and contrast to David Cameron being pushed around by his nutter wing and pandering to UKIP xenophobia

It strikes me Ed's getting pushed around just as much as Dave. To date he'sd hidden his problem better but now Len's just kicked sand in his face, how will Ed Atlas respond ?

Ed's decisive lead

@politicshome
@grantshapps says he is writing to Ed M on the Falkirk row "with a whole series of questions... about this whole sorry affair". @SkyNews

Oh, wait...

eckythumper said:

AveryLP
About time you returned to your desk at tory HQ and leave commenting to us grown ups

That's grown up?

Strange to have a poll on the NHS which asks the Welsh how much better or worse they think the NHS has got since Cameron was elected.

Interesting to note however that Wales had the highest percentage of people thinking the NHS had got 'somewhat worse' or 'much worse'.

http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/NHS-Full-Report.pdf

MikeSmithson said:

Interesting Staggers piece on what laws UNITE might have broken

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/07/labour-hands-falkirk-report-police-what-laws-could-unite-have-broken

a crime of 'uttering'

Could only exist under Scots law.

Jonathan said:

Odd tactics by the Tories. When a rival party gets into this sort of internal pain, surely the best plan is to rise above it, especially when you are in government. At most tut-tut disapprovingly from afar.

There must be the risk that all might not be perfect in their own back yard. Why open yourself up to scrutiny? What comes around goes around.

They must be bored or lost for something better to do in CCHQ.

What else would you expect? Cameron preferred to talk Unite and Len at PMQ rather than address questions on Gove's primary schools places cock-ups and the fact that more and more people in one of the world's wealthiest countries are being forced into using food banks. It's all about priorities, isn't it?

richardDodd said:

SO..dunno..at what stage do you think it will happen

Once it becomes clear that the story has made no difference to anything, I imagine. So probably some time next week.

tim said:

AveryLP said:

tim said:

AveryLP said:

tim said:

We, the British people think very differently of it than they, the PB Tories do.
The disconnect between the right on here and the public over the NHS, the BBC, Education and so on is stark.


And there's some dire numbers today for the Tories today on the NHS


41% of people surveyed thought the services provided by the NHS have got worse since David Cameron became Prime Minister, compared to just 11% who thought service have got better.

See more at: http://survation.com/2013/07/happy-65th-birthday-nhs-do-the-public-still-support-the-founding-principles/#sthash.ln3G1kub.dpuf




68.9% of 2010 Lib Dems think the NHS has got worse under Cameron.

6.9% of 2010 Lib Dems think it has got better under Cameron.

So patients can die unnecessarily due to negligent care, failures in management and a refusal of regulators to take proper action, provided qualitative and uninformed popular opinion continues to think the NHS 'can only get better' under Labour?

Let's all dance the Danny Boy dance and pretend everything is Olympic Gold in the NHS shall we?

The political equation is very simple for David Cameron.

He used his family to make promises on the NHS, he broke those promises.

After the reform debacle only 20% think NHS is safe in Cameron's hands

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2011/06/after-the-reform-debacle-only-20-think-nhs-is-safe-in-camerons-hands.html

All self inflicted, exactly the same as Clegg and tuition fees.

No, tim, the problem is the "political equation".

What is needed is an informed public debate based on objective and independent analysis of fact.

Until that occurs the NHS will continue to decline and patients will continue to suffer under all governments.

Sadly Cameron screwed any chance he had on that by breaking his word on a reorganisation and keeping his idiot pledge to keep all District General Hospitals open, he got it the wrong way round.

So we are left with An informed debate where the homeopathy believer Jeremy Hunt seeks to blame foreigners for the A&E

QED

I hereby find you guilty of uttering.

SouthamObserver said:

Jonathan said:

Odd tactics by the Tories. When a rival party gets into this sort of internal pain, surely the best plan is to rise above it, especially when you are in government. At most tut-tut disapprovingly from afar.

There must be the risk that all might not be perfect in their own back yard. Why open yourself up to scrutiny? What comes around goes around.

They must be bored or lost for something better to do in CCHQ.

What else would you expect? Cameron preferred to talk Unite and Len at PMQ rather than address questions on Gove's primary schools places cock-ups and the fact that more and more people in one of the world's wealthiest countries are being forced into using food banks. It's all about priorities, isn't it?

And Labour's are ?

Maybe if there wasn't a policy blank sheet there'd be something more constructive to discuss.

Hmm, maybe this will lead to existing selections being re-opened. I'd initially thought that unlikely, but the police angle could change that.

What a pity Ed didn't heed the warnings about this months ago.

Labour refuses to rule out EU referendum

William Hague mocks Labour 'confusion' as shadow foreign secretary says decision will be based on national interest

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/05/labour-refuses-rule-out-eu-referendum?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

@tim,you will look silly if labour do a U-turn on this.

antifrank said:

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Boy-That-Escalated-Quickly-Anchorman.gif

What's most interesting about this is that the issue has been propelled to the status of major news story not by Ed Miliband (who might have had an interest in doing so) but by Len McCluskey with his very aggressive attack on Labour's leadership that the BBC is fairly headlining on its website: "Union boss at war with Labour Party".

Ed Miliband has to fight this one now. I disagreed with OGH a couple of days ago about the significance of this, but he was right and I was wrong. This has now become a major news story and if it doesn't result in a clear victory for Ed Miliband, he's in desperate trouble.

EdM has probably now got two problems.

The headline heart and soul of the party one and the behind the scenes where's the money going to come from.

If Ed has a bad bust up with his biggest funder ( not forgetting constituency footsoldiers) and the Bank of Coop is constrained on lending Labour's coffers could be in a sorry state for GE 2015.

TheWatcher said:

Jonathan said:

Odd tactics by the Tories. When a rival party gets into this sort of internal pain, surely the best plan is to rise above it, especially when you are in government. At most tut-tut disapprovingly from afar.

There must be the risk that all might not be perfect in their own back yard. Why open yourself up to scrutiny? What comes around goes around.

They must be bored or lost for something better to do in CCHQ.

If you or anyone else knows of potential lawbreaking then go to the police.

Or do you think it should remain unreported under some shady agreement between parties?

I wonder if Labour would have bothered if they hadn't been bounced into going to Plod by a Tory's actions? Somehow I doubt it..

If you were motivated to report a suspected crime out of a pure sense of civic duty, I would have thought you probably wouldn't write press release on the subject. Especially when you have debate to promote. Maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age.

The US economy added a net 195,000 new jobs in June, official figures show.

The figure was well above market expectations for just 165,000. Revisions to data for April and May added a further 70,000 jobs to previous estimates.

The unemployment rate held steady at 7.6% of the workforce, according to the data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The dollar jumped on the news, the euro falling two-thirds of a cent to $1.283.

The news was received positively on Wall Street, where the Dow, S&P 500, and Nasdaq all trended slightly higher.

Economists had been paying close attention to the number this month due to concerns that the US Federal Reserve might begin to end its policy of propping up the US economy by keeping interest rates extraordinarily low.

Comments by chairmen Ben Bernanke in June that indicated that positive economic data in the coming months might lead to "tapering" of the Fed's bond buying had roiled markets.

The yield on 10-year Treasury bonds - the US government's cost of borrowing, and an indication of market expectations about the Fed's future interest rate moves - jumped as the jobs report was published.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23199688

tim said:

Tykejohnno said:

Labour refuses to rule out EU referendum

William Hague mocks Labour 'confusion' as shadow foreign secretary says decision will be based on national interest

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/05/labour-refuses-rule-out-eu-referendum?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

@tim,you will look silly if labour do a U-turn on this.

Hardly, I fully expect it.
Your assumption that Lib Sem or Labours are bothered is where you are going wrong.
It's only the Tory Salafists who are obsessed

It will be fun if it happens,labour banging on about Europe,where tories go,labour follow = lol

Peter Luff and Geoffrey Clifton-Brown will be tellers for the noes in the division on the second reading of the Bill in order to ensure that there is a division.

Sod the NHS - get rid and give us a modern health system responsive to the patients not the bureacrats, messianic saps and poor old Ken (I'm looking backwards to Attlee)Loach. Re Ed Milliband's current woes - if he steps up and uses some finesse, he could possibly turn the situation round. McClusky looks what he is and could be seen off but this would require not just courage but subtlety. Let's see what Ed' made of, beyond the usual yah boos from all sides of the playground. I can remember saying that no one should underrate him when he got the job and Henry Manson and co were rending their garments and gnashing their teeth. He fits the bill both ways - surprise winner or fall guy. But the sun shines and the day beckons...

Jonathan said:

If you were motivated to report a suspected crime out of a pure sense of civic duty, I would have thought you probably wouldn't write press release on the subject. Especially when you have debate to promote.

Unless you have a book to promote, of course. See Watson, Tom.

richardDodd said:

SO..You and newsense think it will just fade away..heheh

Obviously, I would not expect you to understand the point I am making. But, no, I do not think the story will fade away. I think the story is a different one: Ed v Len. As Antifrank says, it is a battle that Ed cannot afford to lose. Which tells me that he probably won't. However, if he does, as Antifrank also says, he is finished as Labour leader. And that, for me, would be a handy consolation prize.

Order for the Second Reading of the European Union (Referendum) Bill agreed to by 304-0.

Len McCluskey and Tom Watson started their working lives by sharing a flat.

Are there any markets available for betting that they will end their working lives sharing a cell?

richardDodd said:

SO..Ed must be comforted to know he has staunch supporters like you behind him.

I have never been a fan of his.

@tim
I'd say that there is now a 50% chance of this Bill being enacted. As for pointless legislation, the last Labour government specialised in it, the Fiscal Responsibility Act 2010 and the Child Poverty Act 2010 being just some of the more ludicrous examples.

Jonathan said:

Alanbrooke said:

Jonathan said:

TheWatcher said:

Jonathan said:

Odd tactics by the Tories. When a rival party gets into this sort of internal pain, surely the best plan is to rise above it, especially when you are in government. At most tut-tut disapprovingly from afar.

There must be the risk that all might not be perfect in their own back yard. Why open yourself up to scrutiny? What comes around goes around.

They must be bored or lost for something better to do in CCHQ.

If you or anyone else knows of potential lawbreaking then go to the police.

Or do you think it should remain unreported under some shady agreement between parties?

I wonder if Labour would have bothered if they hadn't been bounced into going to Plod by a Tory's actions? Somehow I doubt it..

If you were motivated to report a suspected crime out of a pure sense of civic duty, I would have thought you probably wouldn't write press release on the subject. Especially when you have debate to promote. Maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age.

What debate ? Labour have said nothing, there isn't a debate, just a vacuum. Vacuums don't last, it's getting filled with Ed is weak, since for want of something better there's only Labour's personalities to discuss.

Referring to the debate in Parliament. But never mind, keep trotting out the spoon-fed "weak" line. It's so utterly engaging. I have no doubt you will convince everyone here, perhaps even yourself.

hmmm not your usual sharp self Jonathan. You can move away from the personality yadda yadda at any time by putting some Labour policies on the table. The focus on Ed comes about since he's not giving the UK anything else to judge him on bar personality politics. At the moment the gaps are being filled in for him and on battles not of his choosing. Sometimes sitting in the trenches just means you've become a static target.

Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorriesMP

Today was a great day to be an MP

Tories united ;-)

Labour's supporters could not care less if Labour has been infiltrated by Unite.

Are schoolteachers, human rights lawyers, BBC journalists, postal voters called Khan living on the sixth floor of a Sparkhill bungalow, Dundee slum tenants, and public sector employees all abruptly going to stop voting Labour because of this, this, this scandalous betrayal of their ideals and principles?

I am prepared to find out I am wrong about this, but the whole matter strikes me as electorally completely, utterly, achingly insignificant. While it will entertain Tories, it will not cost Labour a single vote. Not one.

This may make Miliband look and feel a bit silly in the Commons for a week or two, but he can deal with that. Blair looked silly in the Commons lying all the time, and it never harmed him electorally.

Bond_James_Bond said:

Labour's supporters could not care less if Labour has been infiltrated by Unite.

Are schoolteachers, human rights lawyers, BBC journalists, postal voters called Khan living on the sixth floor of a Sparkhill bungalow, Dundee slum tenants, and public sector employees all abruptly going to stop voting Labour because of this, this, this scandalous betrayal of their ideals and principles?

I am prepared to find out I am wrong about this, but the whole matter strikes me as electorally completely, utterly, achingly insignificant. While it will entertain Tories, it will not cost Labour a single vote. Not one.

This may make Miliband look and feel a bit silly in the Commons for a week or two, but he can deal with that. Blair looked silly in the Commons lying all the time, and it never harmed him electorally.

The *weak* thing didn't do john major much harm.

richardDodd said:

SO..Obviously I did not expect you to get my point, which is..Ed must be comforted to know he has staunch supporters like you behind him..poor sap.

Let me assure you that all your points are very easy to understand. Their lack of depth makes them immediately accessible.