politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Richard Tyndall on “Laying the groundwork for an ‘Out’ vote

Tim_B said:

ESPN had wall to wall coverage of the FIFA leadership election, which was incredible. Except for the events of last Wednesday the event would have gotten a line on the crawler at best.

SquareRoot said:

What are the odds on IN v OUT at the moment svp?

nigel4england said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Plato said:

I'm looking forward to a pretty sensible if passionate debate about the pros and cons - and not the ridiculous SIndy discussions on here with cybernats claiming everything was up to them and everything they wanted, they'd get.

@Richard_Tyndall article was a fine example of posing the issues without treating it like a cult.

Anorak said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

rcs1000 said:

Quiet tonight, isn't it?

There you go see. My first article and I have broken PB :-(

We're just awestruck, Richard

Also struck by the dawning realisation that EU referendum coverage will make the Indyref look like a story of page 12 of the Barnsley Gazette.

I think that you are likely to be disappointed! CyberNats are small fry compared to cyberKippers.

Oi!

SquareRoot said:

THE BBC needs its entire library or pretty much anything worth watching on I player. For years they stiffed us with 7 days so we missed stuff, now the world has moved on and the BBC is offering 12 months.

There needs to be a dual service, one for LCD and one with the good stuff.

Plato said:

I subscribe to Netflix and Amazon Prime...

BBC’s online television service has enjoyed years of successful growth
But viewing figures plummeted by 72million a month from high last year
Many stopped using service as much after BBC axed Jeremy Clarkson
Experts said that iPlayer’s popularity is waning thanks to stiff competition from Netflix, Amazon Prime Instant Video and other streaming services


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3102787/Has-Netflix-burst-iPlayer-s-bubble-Viewing-figures-fall-month-row-subscription-streaming-service-booms.html#ixzz3bYffvPAj
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

foxinsoxuk said:

williamglenn said:

Plato said:

I subscribe to Netflix and Amazon Prime...

BBC’s online television service has enjoyed years of successful growth
But viewing figures plummeted by 72million a month from high last year
Many stopped using service as much after BBC axed Jeremy Clarkson
Experts said that iPlayer’s popularity is waning thanks to stiff competition from Netflix, Amazon Prime Instant Video and other streaming services


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3102787/Has-Netflix-burst-iPlayer-s-bubble-Viewing-figures-fall-month-row-subscription-streaming-service-booms.html#ixzz3bYffvPAj
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

This is the real risk for the BBC. Unless they commercialise quickly and make a success of this business model then they will become irrelevant to the future media landscape. We will lose an opportunity to create a UK based major player if we renew the charter along 'business as usual' lines.

Anorak said:

nigel4england said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Plato said:

I'm looking forward to a pretty sensible if passionate debate about the pros and cons - and not the ridiculous SIndy discussions on here with cybernats claiming everything was up to them and everything they wanted, they'd get.

@Richard_Tyndall article was a fine example of posing the issues without treating it like a cult.

Anorak said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

rcs1000 said:

Quiet tonight, isn't it?

There you go see. My first article and I have broken PB :-(

We're just awestruck, Richard

Also struck by the dawning realisation that EU referendum coverage will make the Indyref look like a story of page 12 of the Barnsley Gazette.

I think that you are likely to be disappointed! CyberNats are small fry compared to cyberKippers.

Oi!

You need to come up with a kipper equivalent of "turnip". Turnips are (a bit) yellow, like the SNP, so I guess you need something purple (fnar). "Don't be a beetroot" doesn't really cut it though. Ah-ha! "Red cabbage", but without the "red". Additional benefit of winding up the PC brigage. That's one thing sorted then.

Now, about the panda thing...

MTimT said:

Anorak said:

nigel4england said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Plato said:

I'm looking forward to a pretty sensible if passionate debate about the pros and cons - and not the ridiculous SIndy discussions on here with cybernats claiming everything was up to them and everything they wanted, they'd get.

@Richard_Tyndall article was a fine example of posing the issues without treating it like a cult.

Anorak said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

rcs1000 said:

Quiet tonight, isn't it?

There you go see. My first article and I have broken PB :-(

We're just awestruck, Richard

Also struck by the dawning realisation that EU referendum coverage will make the Indyref look like a story of page 12 of the Barnsley Gazette.

I think that you are likely to be disappointed! CyberNats are small fry compared to cyberKippers.

Oi!

You need to come up with a kipper equivalent of "turnip". Turnips are (a bit) yellow, like the SNP, so I guess you need something purple (fnar). "Don't be a beetroot" doesn't really cut it though. Ah-ha! "Red cabbage", but without the "red". Additional benefit of winding up the PC brigage. That's one thing sorted then.

Now, about the panda thing...

Don't be an aubergine! Doubly insulting, as it's a foreign word.

Plato said:

Ditto - if I could pay for just BBC4 - I probably would.

AA Gill in the Times was very funny the other day - he said that BBC3 needed to work out what it was for bar the parents and probation officers of those who appeared on it. Epic!

Omnium said:

Plato said:

I found that show rather slow going myself - what you could try is going to PBS in the US and downloading Hola.

Loads of shared investment shows appear on PBS - all you need is the right looking IP address to watch them.

Omnium said:

SquareRoot said:

THE BBC needs its entire library or pretty much anything worth watching on I player. For years they stiffed us with 7 days so we missed stuff, now the world has moved on and the BBC is offering 12 months.

There needs to be a dual service, one for LCD and one with the good stuff.

I'd happily pay to have access to the BBC archives. I've found myself seeking out Youtube versions of BBC programmes from time to time. I'd much prefer to buy a dvd, or whatever. For example they are re-running a series called "Inside the Medieval Mind". I saw the first episode, and it justified my annual license fee on its own . I'd really like to be able buy the four episode series, so that I can watch it when I like - however I can't.

Maybe something like iTunes would be good. TV license payers perhaps having an annual credit that they can use.

Slow going! I'd have gone for 'elegantly paced and measured'. I've bought two books after watching the first episode.

I know there are routes to get more TV, and PBS has good stuff. What I want though, and I'm sure you're in this camp too, is the best TV. I've hunted down all sorts of oddities, and some of those have become more widely available - Ripping Yarns (took me ages to get a couple of episodes), 'The Secret War' (Brilliant, and I want to pay - think it may be !), 'The Joy of Stats', and a couple of other things Hans Rosling has done.

You get the idea.

Plato said:

Not me - what's that about?

I'm just starting on Peaky Blinders about English organised crime on Netflix.

nigel4england said:

Plato said:

I ADORE I, Claudius - watched it a bunch of times, have the DVD and read the book.

I'm a heretic, I don't like The Wire - far too much swearing and shot in Black-O-Vision. I gave in within a few shows. I really should try it again,

Omnium said:

Plato said:

snip

Omnium said:

Plato said:

I found that show rather slow going myself - what you could try is going to PBS in the US and downloading Hola.

Loads of shared investment shows appear on PBS - all you need is the right looking IP address to watch them.

Omnium said:

SquareRoot said:

snip

I'd happily pay to have access to the BBC archives. I've found myself seeking out Youtube versions of BBC programmes from time to time. I'd much prefer to buy a dvd, or whatever. For example they are re-running a series called "Inside the Medieval Mind". I saw the first episode, and it justified my annual license fee on its own . I'd really like to be able buy the four episode series, so that I can watch it when I like - however I can't.

Maybe something like iTunes would be good. TV license payers perhaps having an annual credit that they can use.

Slow going! I'd have gone for 'elegantly paced and measured'. I've bought two books after watching the first episode.

I know there are routes to get more TV, and PBS has good stuff. What I want though, and I'm sure you're in this camp too, is the best TV. I've hunted down all sorts of oddities, and some of those have become more widely available - Ripping Yarns (took me ages to get a couple of episodes), 'The Secret War' (Brilliant, and I want to pay - think it may be !), 'The Joy of Stats', and a couple of other things Hans Rosling has done.

You get the idea.

I'm still befuddled by your "Slow going" comment! I've always thought you were a reasonable and wise person

If I happen upon BBC3, or ITV then I get the impression that great big letters are slowly appearing on my screen - those being 'WTF' (what the.. , for those unfamiliar with the term)

From time to time in the office we discuss the merits of TV. On the whole 'The Wire' wins, but I always maintain that the best ever series is 'I Claudius' - when someone comes over and shakes my hand for the recommendation then I'll know that person is headed for high things.

Anyone watching The Game?

Plato said:

I ADORE I, Claudius - watched it a bunch of times, have the DVD and read the book.

I'm a heretic, I don't like The Wire - far too much swearing and shot in Black-O-Vision. I gave in within a few shows. I really should try it again,

Omnium said:

Plato said:

Ditto - if I could pay for just BBC4 - I probably would.

Maybe something like iTunes would be good. TV license payers perhaps having an annual credit that they can use.

notme said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

If you want to understand Labour's problems, you could do worse than searching "Labour" on twitter.

"Finding it hard to believe that @andyburnhammp has sold out too. There is no hope for #Labour. And my dad is spinning in his grave :-("

"We didn't leave labour, they left us" A repetitive consensus amongst Labour voters, & I fear until #Labour understand THIS they are doomed.

etc. etc. just so many

Plus those who point out they need to win Tory votes...

Conservatives had the same problem in 2000+. William Hague recalled about the conversations he had which started "if we only did XYX, we would be back in power for sure"

XYZ usually involved some very hard line right wing position that was desperately important to them, but not much to the general voter.

Flightpathl said:

Tissue_Price said:

kle4 said:

Tissue_Price said:

antifrank said:

kle4 said:

watford30 said:

If UEFA have any balls, they'll tell FIFA to do one.

I would presume the rhetoric from them will die down pretty quickly. They can spin that Blatter not winning in the first round was hugely encouraging and shows that Fifa and Blatter will have no choice but to take reform seriously from now on and so on and so forth, and so they they will stick around to see that things improve etc etc.

Interesting that Prince Ali talked about people being 'brave enough' to support him.

I wonder. I suspect that the European football associations will be coming under behind-the-scenes pressure from their national governments. Michel Platini looked to me like a man who was running ahead of the whip.

Well exactly. Qatar 2022 is the obvious joke, but the real prize would be denying Putin Russia 2018.

Russia is credible, I don't really mind that even disliking Putin. But Qatar, a step too far it has been suggested.

Of course Russia is a credible (even overdue) host - but if the Swiss investigation finds that the tournament was awarded illegally then I think the opportunity to humiliate Putin will be very attractive to the USA in particular.

Oh come on, you cannot expect Putin to have his eye on everyone, er can you?
Prince Ali had a rotten ground game.

antifrank said:

If I were in charge of the OUT campaign, I would campaign under the slogan "Not Good Enough", arguing that the terms that David Cameron had negotiated were inadequate and advocate a No vote on the basis that Britain would then have a mandate to trigger its exit clause in order to get the opportunity to negotiate better terms over the following two year period. That way you scoop up not just the headbanging BOOers but also quite a lot of the persuadables who might otherwise not take a leap of faith.

rcs1000 said:

Fishing said:

So why do we need formal legislative or judicial ties with the EU at all beyond those which we have with other friendly countries like Canada? That is my starting point for a discussion of these matters.

We would continue trade links of some type with the countries of the EU whatever happened. I'm simply not convinced that avoiding possible discrimination on the 10-15% of our GDP that is exports to the EU is enough of a reason to do remain in the alphabet soup, especially when that discrimination would be counter-productive to them economically, and could infringe various WTO rules.

As far as tariffs go, leaving the EU (whether or not we joined the EEA) would have essentially no impact on our terms of trade. We would have a free trade agreement with the EU, and we would almost certainly piggyback on agreements such as TTIP.

Plato said:

The SNP are keeping Labour totally distracted right now. Definitely time to land grab whilst we can in the Blue Team.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

notme said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

If you want to understand Labour's problems, you could do worse than searching "Labour" on twitter.

"Finding it hard to believe that @andyburnhammp has sold out too. There is no hope for #Labour. And my dad is spinning in his grave :-("

"We didn't leave labour, they left us" A repetitive consensus amongst Labour voters, & I fear until #Labour understand THIS they are doomed.

etc. etc. just so many

Plus those who point out they need to win Tory votes...

Conservatives had the same problem in 2000+. William Hague recalled about the conversations he had which started "if we only did XYX, we would be back in power for sure"

XYZ usually involved some very hard line right wing position that was desperately important to them, but not much to the general voter.

I agree; and in the ruins of a defeat it is always difficult to find the makings of a victory. But it would be difficult to overestimate the mess the Labour Party will be at least until their new leader takes charge. Cameron should really press home his advantage: there is no official opposition at all.

Plato said:

I'm still trying to get past S3 E2 of The 4400 - it's gone from being amusingly bad to boring.

What did you like about it so much? What am I missing here?

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

The Wire made no compromises on its authentic Baltimore dialect and dialogue. It was hard work getting your ear in for the first few episodes. But it was well worth the mass of awards. The first 3 series are as fine as TV gets.

I find I've been reassessing my view of The Wire as the years go by. Some truly great, dramatic, compelling, exquisitely put together television...that I have not rewatched in many many years. Re-watch value is certainly not the most crucial factor in the worth or quality of a show, and of course individual tastes will differ, but I just wonder why as much as I remember enjoying it I rarely feel the urge to watch it again, compared to other great or merely entertaining shows (not all entertaining shows being of objectively great quality) which grip me much more.

Plato said:

Indeed.

OT I must ask is that a Disney bunny avatar? Or Watership Down? It looks really familiar, but I can't place where it comes from.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Plato said:

The SNP are keeping Labour totally distracted right now. Definitely time to land grab whilst we can in the Blue Team.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

notme said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

If you want to understand Labour's problems, you could do worse than searching "Labour" on twitter.

"Finding it hard to believe that @andyburnhammp has sold out too. There is no hope for #Labour. And my dad is spinning in his grave :-("

"We didn't leave labour, they left us" A repetitive consensus amongst Labour voters, & I fear until #Labour understand THIS they are doomed.

etc. etc. just so many

Plus those who point out they need to win Tory votes...

Conservatives had the same problem in 2000+. William Hague recalled about the conversations he had which started "if we only did XYX, we would be back in power for sure"

XYZ usually involved some very hard line right wing position that was desperately important to them, but not much to the general voter.

I agree; and in the ruins of a defeat it is always difficult to find the makings of a victory. But it would be difficult to overestimate the mess the Labour Party will be at least until their new leader takes charge. Cameron should really press home his advantage: there is no official opposition at all.

It's not just the SNP. Whilst many in party will say that Miliband was the left-wing candidate who lost (Burnham, Kendall), supporters draw the opposite conclusion: Miliband talked the Tory talk and lost.

Plato said:

@Andy_JS and @Omnium = you may enjoy Portillo's State Secrets = think it's on BBC2 and iPlayer right now. Lots of fun stuff from the National Archives that's not been widely reported until now.

Portillo's delivery style Is A BIT Thespian for MY Taste.

antifrank said:

Janan Ganesh has written a provocative article:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f70e739c-048b-11e5-95ad-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3bYmqzBJB

"This is what political hegemony looks like. Having defeated his opponents, Mr Cameron is bending them to his view of the world. Short of actually paying reparations to Conservative HQ, it is hard to see how Labour could be any more under his boot."

"If personality is destiny, Mr Cameron will stay the sensible side of bug-eyed ideology. But he will still leave the British centre-ground some way to the right of where he found it in 2010, and without ever really intending to. Labour will splutter at this comparison but he evokes Attlee in one sense: he is not a radical so much as a shrewd manager of radicals. It was not Attlee himself but Aneurin Bevan, Hugh Dalton and other cabinet colleagues who did dramatic things with healthcare and welfare in the postwar years. Their prime minister supported, nudged and presided elegantly, but he tended not to initiate.

Something similar is true now. Mr Cameron is not an obvious man of destiny. It is Michael Gove who threw his soul into schools reform as education secretary. It is George Osborne, the chancellor, who is restless for a trimmer state and a more liberal economy. It is Steve Hilton, once the prime minister’s closest counsel and now a public voice in his own right, who instilled this government’s impatience to shake things up."

SquareRoot said:

THE BBC needs its entire library or pretty much anything worth watching on I player. For years they stiffed us with 7 days so we missed stuff, now the world has moved on and the BBC is offering 12 months.

There needs to be a dual service, one for LCD and one with the good stuff.

notme said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Plato said:

The SNP are keeping Labour totally distracted right now. Definitely time to land grab whilst we can in the Blue Team.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

notme said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

If you want to understand Labour's problems, you could do worse than searching "Labour" on twitter.

"Finding it hard to believe that @andyburnhammp has sold out too. There is no hope for #Labour. And my dad is spinning in his grave :-("

"We didn't leave labour, they left us" A repetitive consensus amongst Labour voters, & I fear until #Labour understand THIS they are doomed.

etc. etc. just so many

Plus those who point out they need to win Tory votes...

Conservatives had the same problem in 2000+. William Hague recalled about the conversations he had which started "if we only did XYX, we would be back in power for sure"

XYZ usually involved some very hard line right wing position that was desperately important to them, but not much to the general voter.

I agree; and in the ruins of a defeat it is always difficult to find the makings of a victory. But it would be difficult to overestimate the mess the Labour Party will be at least until their new leader takes charge. Cameron should really press home his advantage: there is no official opposition at all.

It's not just the SNP. Whilst many in party will say that Miliband was the left-wing candidate who lost (Burnham, Kendall), supporters draw the opposite conclusion: Miliband talked the Tory talk and lost.

Curious, because his position on the contemporary political spectrum was easily as left as Foot was in his day. Just because you are left wing though, doesnt mean you have to consider the Deficit as some abstract concept. The numbers need to add up wherever you are on the spectrum. That isnt Toryism, thats good governance.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

notme said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Plato said:

The SNP are keeping Labour totally distracted right now. Definitely time to land grab whilst we can in the Blue Team.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

notme said:

Conservatives had the same problem in 2000+. William Hague recalled about the conversations he had which started "if we only did XYX, we would be back in power for sure"

XYZ usually involved some very hard line right wing position that was desperately important to them, but not much to the general voter.

I agree; and in the ruins of a defeat it is always difficult to find the makings of a victory. But it would be difficult to overestimate the mess the Labour Party will be at least until their new leader takes charge. Cameron should really press home his advantage: there is no official opposition at all.

It's not just the SNP. Whilst many in party will say that Miliband was the left-wing candidate who lost (Burnham, Kendall), supporters draw the opposite conclusion: Miliband talked the Tory talk and lost.

Curious, because his position on the contemporary political spectrum was easily as left as Foot was in his day. Just because you are left wing though, doesnt mean you have to consider the Deficit as some abstract concept. The numbers need to add up wherever you are on the spectrum. That isnt Toryism, thats good governance.

So, if you want my opinion:

Miliband adopted Tory language.

He talked of the need to cut the deficit, not make public services more effective.

He talked of being "as tough as the Tories on welfare" (copyright Reeves), not about protecting legitimate claimants and the system from abuse.

He talked too much of a recovery that wasn't benefitting the poorest, and too little of a recession that was continuing as far as people were concerned.

Those are the same policy positions, articulated differently.

This is what gave the impression to those supporters that he as too right-wing.

Plato said:

HoCards is superb

AndyJS said:

Plato said:

I missed this Netflix stat earlier - golly, what a huge increase in subscribers

More than one in ten households are thought to have signed up to the American streaming service, helping it to amass 4.5million customers by summer last year, according to researcher by Digital TV service.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3102787/Has-Netflix-burst-iPlayer-s-bubble-Viewing-figures-fall-month-row-subscription-streaming-service-booms.html#ixzz3bZ9FdQSk
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I signed up recently in order to watch House of Cards but haven't got round to watching it yet. Saw the first episode on a flight a few months ago.

williamglenn said:

JWisemann said:

"It's especially 'not the end of the matter' in a rotten electoral system that hands absolute victory to a party that a) garnered only 37% of the vote and on many day-to-day issues does not represent the majority view and b) used despicable lies and distortions, aided and abetted by their disgusting media friends and wealthy backers, to swing some of its votes."

which part, other than the florid adjective selection, which i admit is a matter of personal taste, is untrue? any political system that hands over absolute power on a little over a third of the popular vote (and under a quarter of the electorate) is indefensible and unsustainable. And yes, this was just as true in 2005. It wont last but the Tories will drag this zombie voting system as far as they can take it.

A thin majority in the lower chamber and a minority in the upper chamber is a long way from 'absolute power'.

notme said:

But he talked about fixing prices in the rental market, fixing prices in the energy market, fixing prices in the railways and through a process of taking in rail franchises as they came up, effectively renationalising the railways. He talked of banning zero hours contracts, increasing minimum wage, abolishing the 'bedroom tax' reintroducing 50p top income tax rate.

notme said:

Danny565 said:

notme said:

But he talked about fixing prices in the rental market, fixing prices in the energy market, fixing prices in the railways and through a process of taking in rail franchises as they came up, effectively renationalising the railways. He talked of banning zero hours contracts, increasing minimum wage, abolishing the 'bedroom tax' reintroducing 50p top income tax rate.

Blair also "intervened" in the energy market (windfall taxes), had higher taxation for the super-rich, and in opposition promised to end zero-hour contracts. And even the US (that hotbed of socialism that it is) has rent controls.

On top of that, Blair proposed higher spending levels than Miliband did.

But those were different times. The centre of gravity had changed. It's like saying Thatcher had higher rates of tax for most of her time in office, than Brown ever had. She had 60% higher rate and 30% basic rate for over eight years.

OblitusSumMe said:

edmundintokyo said:

The AV campaign tried to do politics without politicians and that didn't go well for them. Maybe there's ambitious Tory minister who could take a run at it?

If you are an ambitious Tory minister and a committed Eurosceptic, resigning from the government to lead the OUT campaign would be a gutsy move. If you win the referendum you pretty much become PM, don't you?

OblitusSumMe said:

The only problem is that, in order not to show disloyalty and bad faith, you probably can't resign from the government until the renegotiation is complete. And that might be a bit too late.