politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » “Cameron has wanted out for a while – just wants to go out
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Montgomerie likes to think he is a big cheese but its quite possible someone else is pullling his chainCarlottaVance said:
As opposed to the other 364 days of the year, or 4 years and 50 weeks of the coalition?SquareRoot said:Question is why is Montgomerie trying to shaft Dave now??
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Well said.Tabman said:
The problem is that in many schools and in society in general there is an anti-learning culture; this is far more prevalent in the sorts of schools that the less well off have to attend than it is in the leafy suburbs.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
What Grammar Schools offer is the reinforcing effect for those of talent, and a way for the many people in society who can't afford the fees for academically selective schools to begin to compete on a level playing field.
The problem with the previous system was that the (admittedly limited) diversity of school provision - the technical schools - were never completed.
If you ensure there is greater mobility at all stages (to avoid the charge of the 11+ single chance denying late developers), and ensure that there is much greater practical provision in the community schools, then you get the best of all worlds.0 -
I'm not saying that the tories were not equally to blame for the mess our education is in. But that doesn't alter the fact that it was Labour that committed the first and greater crime. Like Cane, jealousy of the more able is in the very blood of socialism and socialists.DecrepitJohnL said:
In fact it was the Conservatives who closed most of the grammar schools (and introduced GCSEs and abolished corporal punishment).MikeK said:
@JosiasJessop Learning to read and write would be a big first step in raising standards to help those children at the bottom. It was Labour that abolished grammar schools and then introduced a bizarre system of education by letting kids do what they want with minimum discipline. The Tories tried to alter it (not very hard) but, with the teachers unions in the way, failed miserably.JosiasJessop said:
That is my major concern with this perverse concentration on grammar schools: education needs to be structured so that it works for all children, not just the brightest. MikeK's post below shows an interest only in the children who - I suspect like him - were bright enough to get into a grammar school.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
Whilst the bright kids need help to reach their potential, I'm much more interested in helping those kids who are at the bottom. Morally and fiscally the country needs them to improve.
It is the children at the bottom who most need our help, and screaming 'grammar schools' will do nothing for them.
And Labour who promoted the teaching of reading (synthetic phonics, literacy hours and so on).
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Here is the article..TheScreamingEagles said:
There's a reason why CCHQ have been sending activists like moi to West Yorkshire.TGOHF said:
Con home has an article suggesting that Morely and Outwood, Pudsey and even Leeds North East could be in play for the Cons (!)TheScreamingEagles said:The Times have a piece up on David Laws potentially losing Yeovil.
I've been in Pudsey a lot, helping Stuart Andrew to hold on.
Outwood?"
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/04/election-sketch-in-west-yorkshire-the-political-weather-suddenly-feels-different-because-of-sturgeon.html
"And in the neighbouring seat of Pudsey, won in 2010 by Stuart Andrew for the Conservatives by 1,659 votes, an elderly lady promised she would support him, but added: “I’m only voting because I want to keep that Scotch woman out.”"0 -
I bet I know far more consigned to the scrapheap of failure by the abolition of grammar schools. Clever children who through their circumstances did not have the reinforcing effect of middle class parents, who were crushed by the anti-intellectualism of their peers in the comprehensives. Children consigned to mediocrity through low expectations.ukelect said:
It wouldn't happen for more than a few. And grammar schools always favoured the middle-classes (a bit like the present system in fact). I know several people saved from the scrap-heap of failure by the abolition of the grammar school system.Tabman said:
That's a red herring; you'd design a future Grammar School system to have additional transfer points (at 13, 14 and 16 much like the independent schools) to catch late developers.logical_song said:
I probably don't agree with Rose Rees on much, but as an 11 plus failure with a degree (and an interest in quantum mechanics) I wouldn't want the country to return to sorting the sheep from the goats at age 11.weejonnie said:
If no one fails then no one can succeed. You seem to want prizes for all and to quote Gilbert and Sullivan "When everyone is somebody, no one's anybody". Most kids don't want to, or have the ability, to study quantum mechanics, ancient greek and you know the aphorism "Don't try and teach a horse to sing..."roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
The aim of education is to find out what children do best at and get them to meet their potential. Failing them by having the bar too easy to cross, or having the bar too high is the worst you can do. Better have two bars.0 -
JPJ2,
"Have you ever seen Coburn MEP the only elected UKipper at any level in Scotland?"
He was awful.
Hence the need for some women. Labour have a similar problem even with the women; Caroline Flint - shouty, Angela Eagle - whiny, Rachel Reeves - depressing.
I'd like to see a debate between Flint and Nicola, it would be like an extreme session of Jeremy Kyle.
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God?SquareRoot said:
Montgomerie likes to think he is a big cheese but its quite possible someone else is pullling his chainCarlottaVance said:
As opposed to the other 364 days of the year, or 4 years and 50 weeks of the coalition?SquareRoot said:Question is why is Montgomerie trying to shaft Dave now??
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Never thought much of Monty the self seeker.0
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"I'm not saying that the tories were not equally to blame for the mess our education is in. "
Governments come and governments go, but the failings and issues in our education systems will carry on regardless.0 -
Yep I wouldn't disagree with any of that - but most people don't think about the bigger picture and for many life is ok. Outside London finding a standard job, a house, a reasonable school, and having time and money for a social life is not hard. Like I say, compare with any time before the 1990s and it's not as if this country is a basket caserottenborough said:
Depends what you mean by major problems. I think our woeful productivity levels and failure to invest in innovation is going to cause us awful problems in a few years time. The balance of payments is dreadful, but nobody seems to care. The level of personal debt is one of the worst in the OECD, but that's probably mainly because of the insane house price/mortgage situation. Kids still leave school unable to read or write. Worrying about social care in old age is terrifying many people. We don't invest in energy generation enough.Millsy said:
The election is boring because all parties - even the SNP and Ukip - are fighting over a narrow stretch of the political centre ground. I think it's more a sign that there aren't any major problems with this country so there's not much to argue about (compare with the 1970s and 80s, and the further back you go the bigger the difference between the parties)rottenborough said:
One of the most sensible things I've seen written about this election. Couldn't agree more. Although suspect PBers could get into a nice lather arguing about what those problems are!Financier said:This election campaign has been very flat because all of the main parties do not know how to tackle the major problems that beset this country and if they do have solutions they are scared to reveal those to the electorate.
On a wider level, we are trashing the environment and using resources with no regard to future generations.
But, hey, what the hell, why don't we all discuss whether the personal tax allowance will go to £12,000 or £12,500.
Edit: the other point is that on the things you mention there won't be much difference between sensible Tories and sensible Labourites0 -
I presume BigJohnowls will be along shortly to apologise for the his criticisms thrown at Hitchingbrooke hospital after the health inspectors report. The inspectors have now backed down and agreed the rating was incorrect and the hospital was run the same way as a hospital in the NHS nearby. Circle health have condemned the inspectors.
This morning-- The Times Page 20 -
...to breakfast with an egg on toast and a cup of hot coffee.0
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Perhaps the big donor mentioned by A. Neil. I have my suspicions who that was.. but some may belieze otherwise.Plato said:God?
SquareRoot said:
Montgomerie likes to think he is a big cheese but its quite possible someone else is pullling his chainCarlottaVance said:
As opposed to the other 364 days of the year, or 4 years and 50 weeks of the coalition?SquareRoot said:Question is why is Montgomerie trying to shaft Dave now??
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That's one way to look at it. The other is to say that you failed the 11 plus but it didn't stop you from going to university. I went to a comprehensive and didn't get the chance to go to a grammar school. Had I failed the 11 plus I reckon I would still have gone to university, though I can't imagine it's nice to fail an exam like that.logical_song said:
I probably don't agree with Rose Rees on much, but as an 11 plus failure with a degree (and an interest in quantum mechanics) I wouldn't want the country to return to sorting the sheep from the goats at age 11.weejonnie said:
If no one fails then no one can succeed. You seem to want prizes for all and to quote Gilbert and Sullivan "When everyone is somebody, no one's anybody". Most kids don't want to, or have the ability, to study quantum mechanics, ancient greek and you know the aphorism "Don't try and teach a horse to sing..."roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
The aim of education is to find out what children do best at and get them to meet their potential. Failing them by having the bar too easy to cross, or having the bar too high is the worst you can do. Better have two bars.
The other thing that I wonder about is sixth form colleges. My secondary school didn't have a sixth form so all they cared about was getting as many kids as possible to get 5 A-Cs. What we did when we left school didn't really bother them.
As such they were more concerned with my weakness (English) than my strength (maths). Furthermore, at no point was I ever encouraged to follow my interest (politics) seriously. As such I ended up doing a geography degree as this was the closest thing to politics at school.
It was very telling at my sixth form college that I was the only one in my politics class that had been to my state school. The rest were posh kids who had been at the Royal Grammar School in Guildford (an independent school) who's parents thought they'd save a few quid by sending them to an excellent sixth form college.0 -
It was Labour who initiated abolishing grammar schools and the Conservatives who finished the job.DecrepitJohnL said:
In fact it was the Conservatives who closed most of the grammar schools (and introduced GCSEs and abolished corporal punishment).MikeK said:
@JosiasJessop Learning to read and write would be a big first step in raising standards to help those children at the bottom. It was Labour that abolished grammar schools and then introduced a bizarre system of education by letting kids do what they want with minimum discipline. The Tories tried to alter it (not very hard) but, with the teachers unions in the way, failed miserably.JosiasJessop said:
That is my major concern with this perverse concentration on grammar schools: education needs to be structured so that it works for all children, not just the brightest. MikeK's post below shows an interest only in the children who - I suspect like him - were bright enough to get into a grammar school.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
Whilst the bright kids need help to reach their potential, I'm much more interested in helping those kids who are at the bottom. Morally and fiscally the country needs them to improve.
It is the children at the bottom who most need our help, and screaming 'grammar schools' will do nothing for them.
And Labour who promoted the teaching of reading (synthetic phonics, literacy hours and so on).
Started by (privately-educated) Crosland who allegedly said "If it's the last thing I do, I'm going to destroy every f*****g grammar school in England. And Wales and Northern Ireland", it was finished by the Conservatives who realised there was electoral capital in moving to a system of selection by wealth (catchment area house prices) when the middle classes realised places in "their" schools were being taken by poor bright kids.
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@MikeK - interesting that its only the Scottish Conservatives who have a different logo from their English counterparts......everyone else either hasn't bothered (UKIP), or just added 'Scottish' to the party logo......0
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Excellent analysis with some good betting tips.antifrank said:Morning all. I put my summary of the seat markets as a whole up last night:
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/when-april-turns-to-may-what-seat.html
I'm not presently intending to put up any more posts before the election, though I might do so if I find that I have something specific to say about some new development.
I like the 6-4 on Tories 250 - 300 seats, it is the favourite but the price is arbable Betfair and not quite the 13-8 suggested in the blog but it fits nicely to my book tbh.0 -
Social mobility is very low on my list of things that are wrong with the country. Given the composition of the Labour front bench, they don't care too much about it either. ;-)tlg86 said:
That's fine, but don't complain about a lack of social mobility or our political class being dominated by those who went to private schools.JosiasJessop said:
That is my major concern with this perverse concentration on grammar schools: education needs to be structured so that it works for all children, not just the brightest. MikeK's post below shows an interest only in the children who - I suspect like him - were bright enough to get into a grammar school.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
Whilst the bright kids need help to reach their potential, I'm much more interested in helping those kids who are at the bottom. Morally and fiscally the country needs them to improve.
It is the children at the bottom who most need our help, and screaming 'grammar schools' will do nothing for them.0 -
MikeK said:
@UKIP @Casumptious @Shazza1uk Postal vote completed. pic.twitter.com/rozoDqMzeJ
— IH8FOLLOWERS (@BluePariah1872) April 21, 2015
Clearly not paid attention to the tactical wheel of fortune
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What a lisp you have developed!TGOHF said:
Perhaps the big donor mentioned by A. Neil. I have my suspicions who that was.. but some may belieze otherwise.Plato said:God?
SquareRoot said:
Montgomerie likes to think he is a big cheese but its quite possible someone else is pullling his chainCarlottaVance said:
As opposed to the other 364 days of the year, or 4 years and 50 weeks of the coalition?SquareRoot said:Question is why is Montgomerie trying to shaft Dave now??
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Mail has it too:Moses_ said:I presume BigJohnowls will be along shortly to apologise for the his criticisms thrown at Hitchingbrooke hospital after the health inspectors report. The inspectors have now backed down and agreed the rating was incorrect and the hospital was run the same way as a hospital in the NHS nearby. Circle health have condemned the inspectors.
This morning-- The Times Page 2
Experts say it is further evidence that the inspection was flawed and a stitch-up by Labour Party activists and trade unionists who oppose privatisation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3049718/Official-NHS-private-hospital-stitched-Watchdog-branded-Hinchingbrooke-inadequate-ignored-checks-huge-improvements-standards.html0 -
They did do one poll for a Sunday paper in 2010 (Mother was polled by them for that one, LOL)TheScreamingEagles said:
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Thanks for this considered reply, especially about illiteracy and innumeracy being massive problems. Some schools have to cope with children who have suffered from less than stellar parenting, and that cannot in any way be easy or cheap to correct.MikeK said:
@JosiasJessop Learning to read and write would be a big first step in raising standards to help those children at the bottom. It was Labour that abolished grammar schools and then introduced a bizarre system of education by letting kids do what they want with minimum discipline. The Tories tried to alter it (not very hard) but, with the teachers unions in the way, failed miserably.JosiasJessop said:
That is my major concern with this perverse concentration on grammar schools: education needs to be structured so that it works for all children, not just the brightest. MikeK's post below shows an interest only in the children who - I suspect like him - were bright enough to get into a grammar school.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
Whilst the bright kids need help to reach their potential, I'm much more interested in helping those kids who are at the bottom. Morally and fiscally the country needs them to improve.
It is the children at the bottom who most need our help, and screaming 'grammar schools' will do nothing for them.
But again you are concentrating on grammar schools as the solution, which makes little sense to me. I'd be in favour of allowing state schools to become selective if, and only if, the schools that are not selective and have to cope with the less capable children get more funding than the grammar schools.
That might sell it to the public as a whole, as well.0 -
If Dave has a Victory it will be a Cross he has to bear......philiph said:
What a lisp you have developed!TGOHF said:
Perhaps the big donor mentioned by A. Neil. I have my suspicions who that was.. but some may belieze otherwise.Plato said:God?
SquareRoot said:
Montgomerie likes to think he is a big cheese but its quite possible someone else is pullling his chainCarlottaVance said:
As opposed to the other 364 days of the year, or 4 years and 50 weeks of the coalition?SquareRoot said:Question is why is Montgomerie trying to shaft Dave now??
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I meant 275-300 seats of course
250-300 @ 6-4 would be a mortgage job.0 -
That was for the News of the World.GIN1138 said:
They did do one poll for a Sunday paper in 2010 (Mother was polled by them for that one, LOL)TheScreamingEagles said:
Pretty much all the papers have their pollsters lined up.
Here's an interesting fact, the Daily Telegraph haven't commissioned a single Westminster VI poll since Feb 2010.0 -
@CarlottaVance
'Experts say it is further evidence that the inspection was flawed and a stitch-up by Labour Party activists and trade unionists who oppose privatisation.'
Have they now been sacked ?
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Seems to me that the usual critics of Cameron want to have it both ways. On the one hand we have people like Montgomerie saying Cameron's heart is not in being reelected, yet on the other hand he is accused of wanting to be PM so much that he is prepared to put the Union at risk!. Can't have it both ways.0
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Hi Philipphiliph said:
***Anecdote alert***
I hear it (Ed is Crap) whenever he is mentioned on TV. Having an apolitical wife it is odd to hear her exclamations of despair and scorn for either one of two politicians when they are shown. Ed or Nigel get her animated in a way that is negative to them, and now Nicola is also getting her opprobrium.
As they say, you never know what goes on behind closed doors, but in her 60th year she has commented on politics voluntarily for the first time, and done so with venom and frequency. I doubt she is typical, I doubt pollsters will pick this up.
You're into flowers & gardens right, IIRC? I have a spare ticket for the launch of the Garden Bridge patron's evening and thought it might be your sort of thing?0 -
Mild, possibly unsettled has at least a one-third chance of proving to be true, as it basically describes a typical British spring day. Climatology is not that bad as a forecast.Greenwich_Floater said:+372 hours weather forecast (Valid 1200 UTC, 07th May 2015)
Mild, possibly unsettled.
Verification chance - less than 1%0 -
This is such utter crap. Only a fool would be so crass as to brand someone a failure for life (!!) on the result of 1 test at a young age.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
I went to a state grammar school and friends to the "High School" (not been called secondary moderns for some decades). One of those friends joined the grammar school in the 6th form and was one of only 2 people in the school to go to Oxford. Luckily he didn't listen to idiotic lefties telling him he was a failure or blighted! Another friend who had failed at 11 was transferred across at 14 as he was doing well and now runs his own very successful business.
Another advantage of the system was that I along with others was no longer bullied for being a swot as i had been at primary school.
A simple return to the old system would not work thanks to middle class parents paying for tutors, but some system where 11 year olds could be sent the best schools for them at that age would work.0 -
Bloody plebeians.
@cafonline: People think the richest in society should give away 25% of their wealth according to our new research http://t.co/Mma16kPw5Q #givinglist0 -
I've just laid con most seats at 1.42
It's be rude not to at that price.0 -
Hi CharlesCharles said:
Hi Philipphiliph said:
***Anecdote alert***
I hear it (Ed is Crap) whenever he is mentioned on TV. Having an apolitical wife it is odd to hear her exclamations of despair and scorn for either one of two politicians when they are shown. Ed or Nigel get her animated in a way that is negative to them, and now Nicola is also getting her opprobrium.
As they say, you never know what goes on behind closed doors, but in her 60th year she has commented on politics voluntarily for the first time, and done so with venom and frequency. I doubt she is typical, I doubt pollsters will pick this up.
You're into flowers & gardens right, IIRC? I have a spare ticket for the launch of the Garden Bridge patron's evening and thought it might be your sort of thing?
I would be interested, an interesting project, when is it?0 -
We might still see some "out of the ordinary" polls turning up. I remember in 2010, the Express, Metro and the Sunday People all ran a few polls.TheScreamingEagles said:
That was for the News of the World.GIN1138 said:
They did do one poll for a Sunday paper in 2010 (Mother was polled by them for that one, LOL)TheScreamingEagles said:
Pretty much all the papers have their pollsters lined up.
Here's an interesting fact, the Daily Telegraph haven't commissioned a single Westminster VI poll since Feb 2010.
And it's possible the tight wad's at the Tele might do something as well maybe?
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Vocational training might be brilliant, depending on how it is done, and it is a policy I could support. But any positive effect of vocational training would be blunted if the children involved are functionally illiterate and/or innumerate.anotherDave said:
In addition to grammar schools UKIP also advocate vocational education.JosiasJessop said:
That is my major concern with this perverse concentration on grammar schools: education needs to be structured so that it works for all children, not just the brightest. MikeK's post below shows an interest only in the children who - I suspect like him - were bright enough to get into a grammar school.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
Whilst the bright kids need help to reach their potential, I'm much more interested in helping those kids who are at the bottom. Morally and fiscally the country needs them to improve.
It is the children at the bottom who most need our help, and screaming 'grammar schools' will do nothing for them.
"VOCATIONAL EDUCATION
As well as allowing existing schools to become grammar schools, we will allow other establishments to become vocational schools or colleges similar to those promoted in Germany and The Netherlands, so pupils develop practical skills.
Further, by linking vocational schools and colleges with industry, we will introduce an option for students to take an apprenticeship qualification instead of four non-core GCSEs. Students can then continue their apprenticeships past the age of 16, working with certified professionals qualified to grade their progress."
p.30 of manifesto.
http://www.ukip.org/ukip_manifesto_summary
(snip)
In engineering there is the concept that the quicker a problem is found, the cheaper it is to fix. The same is true for children: we need to detect children who are having problems with the basics as early as possible, and try to fix those problems immediately.
The presence, or not, of grammar schools in the schooling system is hardly the biggest problem facing the system, or by extension the country.0 -
@ThescreamingEagles Is this Times piece on Laws losing Yeovil backed up by anything other than the Comres SW marginal polling, and canvassing 'Sturgeon' anecdotes ?0
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As a product of a private education, I say we should abolish the Department for Education, use the money spent there and give it to parents as vouchers towards school fees.
Then you'll see education standards soaring in this country.0 -
Clearly not paid attention to the tactical wheel of fortunePulpstar said:MikeK said:@UKIP @Casumptious @Shazza1uk Postal vote completed. pic.twitter.com/rozoDqMzeJ
— IH8FOLLOWERS (@BluePariah1872) April 21, 2015
Or the voting rules:
CAN I SIGN MY BALLOT PAPER?
People do occasionally sign their ballots but these votes do not count. They are considered rejected ballots because the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot.
Signing your ballot paper was fairly common in the 19th Century when candidates would pay people to vote for them. Under that corrupt system it was possible for the candidate to check up later who had voted for them by looking for signatures, and pay out accordingly. Today, however innocent the motive, a signature renders a ballot "rejected".0 -
And the Tories being confident and others saying his expenses saga isn't playing well, and tactical Lab voters don't like him at all.Pulpstar said:@ThescreamingEagles Is this Times piece on Laws losing Yeovil backed up by anything other than the Comres SW marginal polling, and canvassing 'Sturgeon' anecdotes ?
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There is of course no way on the planet that Neil would have let any kind of cat out of the bag unless explicitly told to do so.CarlottaVance said:
If Dave has a Victory it will be a Cross he has to bear......philiph said:
What a lisp you have developed!TGOHF said:
Perhaps the big donor mentioned by A. Neil. I have my suspicions who that was.. but some may belieze otherwise.Plato said:God?
SquareRoot said:
Montgomerie likes to think he is a big cheese but its quite possible someone else is pullling his chainCarlottaVance said:
As opposed to the other 364 days of the year, or 4 years and 50 weeks of the coalition?SquareRoot said:Question is why is Montgomerie trying to shaft Dave now??
Not sure if it does him any good (and I am a HUGE ANeil fan) to be such a willing accomplice.
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Is posting pictures of ballot papers not verboten under law ?
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Or the voting rules:logical_song said:
Clearly not paid attention to the tactical wheel of fortunePulpstar said:MikeK said:@UKIP @Casumptious @Shazza1uk Postal vote completed. pic.twitter.com/rozoDqMzeJ
— IH8FOLLOWERS (@BluePariah1872) April 21, 2015
CAN I SIGN MY BALLOT PAPER?
People do occasionally sign their ballots but these votes do not count. They are considered rejected ballots because the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot.
Signing your ballot paper was fairly common in the 19th Century when candidates would pay people to vote for them. Under that corrupt system it was possible for the candidate to check up later who had voted for them by looking for signatures, and pay out accordingly. Today, however innocent the motive, a signature renders a ballot "rejected".
It isn't signed ?0 -
Your utopia is unlikely to be achievable for as long as middle class parents regard their children being sent to the technical schools as a failure, which they must avoid with an expensive private education. This lack of parity of esteem will ensure that resources will be lavished on the grammar schools, and the other schools will be seen as dumping grounds for the children of the feckless.Tabman said:
The problem is that in many schools and in society in general there is an anti-learning culture; this is far more prevalent in the sorts of schools that the less well off have to attend than it is in the leafy suburbs.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
What Grammar Schools offer is the reinforcing effect for those of talent, and a way for the many people in society who can't afford the fees for academically selective schools to begin to compete on a level playing field.
The problem with the previous system was that the (admittedly limited) diversity of school provision - the technical schools - were never completed.
If you ensure there is greater mobility at all stages (to avoid the charge of the 11+ single chance denying late developers), and ensure that there is much greater practical provision in the community schools, then you get the best of all worlds.0 -
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I am very torn on grammar schools. I went to the last one in inner London and it gave me a superb education, with the assumption all the way through that I would go to university. As someone from a working class home I wonder if it would have been the same had I gone to a comprehensive. But then I think of my middle son, who was born in late August and always struggled at school - especially in his early teens. He would certainly not have got into a grammar school, would have ended up in a secondary modern and probably would have missed out on his place at Nottingham University that was secured on the back of a very late flowering at sixth form college.
It strikes me that there should be a level of selection at different age groups, but also a high degree of mobility between groups. And that, surely, means streaming within schools where children of all abilities are taught.0 -
I can see that one being true - it is the one seat (Other than Hallam which won't happen) where returning a Conservative MP makes a Conservative Gov't probably less likely.TheScreamingEagles said:And tactical Lab voters don't like him at all.
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It isn't signed ?Pulpstar said:
Or the voting rules:logical_song said:
Clearly not paid attention to the tactical wheel of fortunePulpstar said:MikeK said:@UKIP @Casumptious @Shazza1uk Postal vote completed. pic.twitter.com/rozoDqMzeJ
— IH8FOLLOWERS (@BluePariah1872) April 21, 2015
CAN I SIGN MY BALLOT PAPER?
People do occasionally sign their ballots but these votes do not count. They are considered rejected ballots because the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot.
Signing your ballot paper was fairly common in the 19th Century when candidates would pay people to vote for them. Under that corrupt system it was possible for the candidate to check up later who had voted for them by looking for signatures, and pay out accordingly. Today, however innocent the motive, a signature renders a ballot "rejected".
Read on " the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot."0 -
@SkyBet: Today's general election Price Boost is Greens to win more seats than UKIP was 12/1 NOW 15/1. Bet here > http://t.co/mGkspCIiI60
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I think Mike is very conscious that he might be seen as bigging up any little tory positive and conversely ignoring anything negative.felix said:Very surprised there's no thread header leading on the Tories regaining the lead with You Gov.
We know its an issue because he pointed it out to someone yesterday ~innocent face~0 -
Read on " the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot."logical_song said:
It isn't signed ?Pulpstar said:
Or the voting rules:logical_song said:
Clearly not paid attention to the tactical wheel of fortunePulpstar said:MikeK said:@UKIP @Casumptious @Shazza1uk Postal vote completed. pic.twitter.com/rozoDqMzeJ
— IH8FOLLOWERS (@BluePariah1872) April 21, 2015
CAN I SIGN MY BALLOT PAPER?
People do occasionally sign their ballots but these votes do not count. They are considered rejected ballots because the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot.
Signing your ballot paper was fairly common in the 19th Century when candidates would pay people to vote for them. Under that corrupt system it was possible for the candidate to check up later who had voted for them by looking for signatures, and pay out accordingly. Today, however innocent the motive, a signature renders a ballot "rejected".
How's that going to be found out though - the only way possible is if there are only say around a hundred votes for UKIP in the constituency so it can be identified by his han..
OH WAIT
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So two of your mates were transferred. Two. That's not a huge number. How many could have moved across, but didn't?JonCisBack said:
This is such utter crap. Only a fool would be so crass as to brand someone a failure for life (!!) on the result of 1 test at a young age.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
I went to a state grammar school and friends to the "High School" (not been called secondary moderns for some decades). One of those friends joined the grammar school in the 6th form and was one of only 2 people in the school to go to Oxford. Luckily he didn't listen to idiotic lefties telling him he was a failure or blighted! Another friend who had failed at 11 was transferred across at 14 as he was doing well and now runs his own very successful business.
Another advantage of the system was that I along with others was no longer bullied for being a swot as i had been at primary school.
A simple return to the old system would not work thanks to middle class parents paying for tutors, but some system where 11 year olds could be sent the best schools for them at that age would work.
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Yes.TGOHF said:Is posting pictures of ballot papers not verboten under law ?
"...this is a secret ballot and you should not show anyone your vote. "
http://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/council_and_democracy/voting_and_elections/registering_to_vote/postal_voting.aspx0 -
I wish I had as much money as you seem to think I have! I do okay, but not ultra rich by any standardsmalcolmg said:
You could have just said group of ultra rich people like myself concerned they are not going to be able to keep making megabucks when the Tories get their jotters, Jeeves where is the port..Charles said:
Had an interesting and somewhat depressing dinner with some very switched on and political aware/interested people last night.foxinsoxuk said:I do not think the Tory campaign particularly useless. Apart from the SNP no one seems to have properly run a campaign.
Con 5/10: rather directionless, and self contradictory, but no major gaffes: "Austerity or Unicorns? We can give you both"
Lab 5/10: A strange combination of earnest gimmickry and agreement with the Tories over key issues (austerity and Trident) that activists and supporters do not believe in.
LD 3/10: Invisible and not making progress
UKIP 4/10: Farage failed to capitalise on debates and "major party" status or to ignite either immigration or Europe as major election issues. Retreated to speaking to usual suspects and shore up the core vote.
Greens 4/10: not really engaged outside the student population.
SNP: 9/10 Sturgeon proving a far more effective leader than Salmond and a battle hardened campaigner; has made devolution issues and constitutional settlement central to the campaign for the first time since the 19th Century Irish Home rule paralysis.
The public are largely bored and unengaged by what is on offer outside Scotland. It is not just Cameron that is uninspired, he matches the mood of the country: resignation to austerity, a recognition that the economy is looking up and a vague sense of disgruntlement about the modern world.
Almost total consensus was that they are completely disengaged from the election, with none of the options appealing one little bit. The only bit of spark came from someone (not a LibDem voter) who felt that it was bad for the Tories that the LibDems are about to be smushed into the ground.
Deep concern about the likely games that SNP will play after the election: as a whole the group has an interest in good governance, a stable environment and stable money.
This group aren't focused on the short term, but want to maintain a functioning society. Their motto is that each generation (of the people as a whole) should be "happier, more secure and richer" than the previous one...not a bad objective, to be honest!0 -
Would be folly to talk down ones book on ones own website.Floater said:
I think Mike is very conscious that he might be seen as bigging up any little tory positive and conversely ignoring anything negative.felix said:Very surprised there's no thread header leading on the Tories regaining the lead with You Gov.
We know its an issue because he pointed it out to someone yesterday ~innocent face~0 -
Streaming is in theory as good, the trouble can be that the "sheep" and "goats" have to share the same playground and lunch queue.SouthamObserver said:
It strikes me that there should be a level of selection at different age groups, but also a high degree of mobility between groups. And that, surely, means streaming within schools where children of all abilities are taught.
In practice in my daughter's comprehensive it (streaming) seems to work just fine, we are lucky there seem to be almost no disruptive "can't be bothered" kids, and in any case it is futile pretending that the children are all at the same level - they all know who is bright and who isn't. And the top groups are different in different subjects, which is an advantage of comps I guess.
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How's that going to be found out though - the only way possible is if there are only say around a hundred votes for UKIP in the constituency so it can be identified by his han..Pulpstar said:
Read on " the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot."logical_song said:
It isn't signed ?Pulpstar said:
Or the voting rules:logical_song said:
Clearly not paid attention to the tactical wheel of fortunePulpstar said:MikeK said:@UKIP @Casumptious @Shazza1uk Postal vote completed. pic.twitter.com/rozoDqMzeJ
— IH8FOLLOWERS (@BluePariah1872) April 21, 2015
CAN I SIGN MY BALLOT PAPER?
People do occasionally sign their ballots but these votes do not count. They are considered rejected ballots because the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot.
Signing your ballot paper was fairly common in the 19th Century when candidates would pay people to vote for them. Under that corrupt system it was possible for the candidate to check up later who had voted for them by looking for signatures, and pay out accordingly. Today, however innocent the motive, a signature renders a ballot "rejected".
OH WAIT
Transfer one vote from the UKIP pile to the 'Spoilt' pile.0 -
My brother failed the 11+, but fortunatly the schools went Comprehensive the same year so it was a dead letter.tlg86 said:
That's one way to look at it. The other is to say that you failed the 11 plus but it didn't stop you from going to university. I went to a comprehensive and didn't get the chance to go to a grammar school. Had I failed the 11 plus I reckon I would still have gone to university, though I can't imagine it's nice to fail an exam like that.logical_song said:
I probably don't agree with Rose Rees on much, but as an 11 plus failure with a degree (and an interest in quantum mechanics) I wouldn't want the country to return to sorting the sheep from the goats at age 11.weejonnie said:
If no one fails then no one can succeed. You seem to want prizes for all and to quote Gilbert and Sullivan "When everyone is somebody, no one's anybody". Most kids don't want to, or have the ability, to study quantum mechanics, ancient greek and you know the aphorism "Don't try and teach a horse to sing..."roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
The aim of education is to find out what children do best at and get them to meet their potential. Failing them by having the bar too easy to cross, or having the bar too high is the worst you can do. Better have two bars.
The other thing that I wonder about is sixth form colleges. My secondary school didn't have a sixth form so all they cared about was getting as many kids as possible to get 5 A-Cs. What we did when we left school didn't really bother them.
As such they were more concerned with my weakness (English) than my strength (maths). Furthermore, at no point was I ever encouraged to follow my interest (politics) seriously. As such I ended up doing a geography degree as this was the closest thing to politics at school.
It was very telling at my sixth form college that I was the only one in my politics class that had been to my state school. The rest were posh kids who had been at the Royal Grammar School in Guildford (an independent school) who's parents thought they'd save a few quid by sending them to an excellent sixth form college.
He went on to a degree from the LSE and Masters and now works for the Crown in a senior role. He wouldnt have got there if Mrs T hadn't abolished grammar schools in the area.
He was slow to read and write and would probably be labelled dyslexic nowadays; though caught up as a teen when he found something worth reading.
Selection at age 14 and streaming before that seems reasonable.
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Read on " the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot."logical_song said:
It isn't signed ?Pulpstar said:
Or the voting rules:logical_song said:
Clearly not paid attention to the tactical wheel of fortunePulpstar said:MikeK said:@UKIP @Casumptious @Shazza1uk Postal vote completed. pic.twitter.com/rozoDqMzeJ
— IH8FOLLOWERS (@BluePariah1872) April 21, 2015
CAN I SIGN MY BALLOT PAPER?
People do occasionally sign their ballots but these votes do not count. They are considered rejected ballots because the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot.
Signing your ballot paper was fairly common in the 19th Century when candidates would pay people to vote for them. Under that corrupt system it was possible for the candidate to check up later who had voted for them by looking for signatures, and pay out accordingly. Today, however innocent the motive, a signature renders a ballot "rejected".
And how is that going to lead to its being rejected?
You really aren't the sharpest knife in the block, are you? No matter what Ther Science says.
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As I've said passim, Hinchinbrooke improved massively under Circle, at least from my perspective as a user. We chose for our son to be born there instead of Addenbroookes, and we would not have done that if we had any doubt about the quality of care.CarlottaVance said:
Mail has it too:Moses_ said:I presume BigJohnowls will be along shortly to apologise for the his criticisms thrown at Hitchingbrooke hospital after the health inspectors report. The inspectors have now backed down and agreed the rating was incorrect and the hospital was run the same way as a hospital in the NHS nearby. Circle health have condemned the inspectors.
This morning-- The Times Page 2
Experts say it is further evidence that the inspection was flawed and a stitch-up by Labour Party activists and trade unionists who oppose privatisation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3049718/Official-NHS-private-hospital-stitched-Watchdog-branded-Hinchingbrooke-inadequate-ignored-checks-huge-improvements-standards.html
The leaking and subsequent reporting of the interim report was despicable.0 -
An excellent post.SouthamObserver said:I am very torn on grammar schools. I went to the last one in inner London and it gave me a superb education, with the assumption all the way through that I would go to university. As someone from a working class home I wonder if it would have been the same had I gone to a comprehensive. But then I think of my middle son, who was born in late August and always struggled at school - especially in his early teens. He would certainly not have got into a grammar school, would have ended up in a secondary modern and probably would have missed out on his place at Nottingham University that was secured on the back of a very late flowering at sixth form college.
It strikes me that there should be a level of selection at different age groups, but also a high degree of mobility between groups. And that, surely, means streaming within schools where children of all abilities are taught.0 -
I'm not sure I'll get invited to anything to do with that hideous carbuncle. ;-)Charles said:
Hi Philipphiliph said:
***Anecdote alert***
I hear it (Ed is Crap) whenever he is mentioned on TV. Having an apolitical wife it is odd to hear her exclamations of despair and scorn for either one of two politicians when they are shown. Ed or Nigel get her animated in a way that is negative to them, and now Nicola is also getting her opprobrium.
As they say, you never know what goes on behind closed doors, but in her 60th year she has commented on politics voluntarily for the first time, and done so with venom and frequency. I doubt she is typical, I doubt pollsters will pick this up.
You're into flowers & gardens right, IIRC? I have a spare ticket for the launch of the Garden Bridge patron's evening and thought it might be your sort of thing?
ALthough hope you have a great evening.0 -
The tautological nuances of calling Secondary Moderns 'high schools' or community schools in areas where grammar schools exist is a deception.They are still the old secondary moderns by another name. Telling children they have failed at the age of 11 or 13 is not an effective educational policy. I know people in their sixties and seventies who still see themselves as failures because of something that happened when they were 11. Primary schools are egalitarian havens excrpt in areas where cramming for tests is the norm and private tutors are much in demand.0
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I think the ballot should and could be rejected in theory, but will election staff go to that much effort to identify it at the actual count ?0
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Regarding the lack of pizazz in the campaign, I've said before that Gordon Brown is a big miss from politics.
I couldn't stand Gordon Brown. I had some irrational, visceral dislike for him which was matched only by the loyalty and love for him among his supporters.
In contrast, all the party leaders are all well-mannered, polite, inoffensive types who fail to either make your blood boil or engender any deep love.
As much as I detested him, bring back Gordon! He made politics a real blood-sport.0 -
More to the point in my view is how many were transferred in the other direction?SouthamObserver said:
So two of your mates were transferred. Two. That's not a huge number. How many could have moved across, but didn't?JonCisBack said:
This is such utter crap. Only a fool would be so crass as to brand someone a failure for life (!!) on the result of 1 test at a young age.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
I went to a state grammar school and friends to the "High School" (not been called secondary moderns for some decades). One of those friends joined the grammar school in the 6th form and was one of only 2 people in the school to go to Oxford. Luckily he didn't listen to idiotic lefties telling him he was a failure or blighted! Another friend who had failed at 11 was transferred across at 14 as he was doing well and now runs his own very successful business.
Another advantage of the system was that I along with others was no longer bullied for being a swot as i had been at primary school.
A simple return to the old system would not work thanks to middle class parents paying for tutors, but some system where 11 year olds could be sent the best schools for them at that age would work.
Everyone is in favour of upward social mobility, but no-one campaigns in favour of downward social mobility.0 -
And how is that going to lead to its being rejected?Ishmael_X said:
Read on " the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot."logical_song said:
It isn't signed ?Pulpstar said:
Or the voting rules:logical_song said:
Clearly not paid attention to the tactical wheel of fortunePulpstar said:MikeK said:@UKIP @Casumptious @Shazza1uk Postal vote completed. pic.twitter.com/rozoDqMzeJ
— IH8FOLLOWERS (@BluePariah1872) April 21, 2015
CAN I SIGN MY BALLOT PAPER?
People do occasionally sign their ballots but these votes do not count. They are considered rejected ballots because the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot.
Signing your ballot paper was fairly common in the 19th Century when candidates would pay people to vote for them. Under that corrupt system it was possible for the candidate to check up later who had voted for them by looking for signatures, and pay out accordingly. Today, however innocent the motive, a signature renders a ballot "rejected".
You really aren't the sharpest knife in the block, are you? No matter what Ther Science says.
Did I say it was going to be rejected? I was just pointing out that it was illegal.
Now if someone wanted to track down a Mike K, who's a member of UKIP and report him....
If I'm a non-sharp knife you must be a spoon.0 -
roserees64 said:
The tautological nuances of calling Secondary Moderns 'high schools' or community schools in areas where grammar schools exist is a deception.They are still the old secondary moderns by another name. Telling children they have failed at the age of 11 or 13 is not an effective educational policy. I know people in their sixties and seventies who still see themselves as failures because of something that happened when they were 11. Primary schools are egalitarian havens excrpt in areas where cramming for tests is the norm and private tutors are much in demand.
Would you also shelter youngsters from exam results at GCSE, A level, degree level, PhD level ? Driving test ? Cub knot badge ?
When is it acceptable to say - actually your level of proficiency isn't the bestest in the world ever ?0 -
We already have that system; the middle classes congregate in leafy suburbs and the poor in sink estates.OblitusSumMe said:
Your utopia is unlikely to be achievable for as long as middle class parents regard their children being sent to the technical schools as a failure, which they must avoid with an expensive private education. This lack of parity of esteem will ensure that resources will be lavished on the grammar schools, and the other schools will be seen as dumping grounds for the children of the feckless.Tabman said:
The problem is that in many schools and in society in general there is an anti-learning culture; this is far more prevalent in the sorts of schools that the less well off have to attend than it is in the leafy suburbs.roserees64 said:Why would you want to return to Secondary Moderns because that is what a return to Grammar Schools means? Children who fail the entrance exam are blighted for the rest of their lives, such a small minded and mean spirited system. Much better to have one good secondary school in each area.
What Grammar Schools offer is the reinforcing effect for those of talent, and a way for the many people in society who can't afford the fees for academically selective schools to begin to compete on a level playing field.
The problem with the previous system was that the (admittedly limited) diversity of school provision - the technical schools - were never completed.
If you ensure there is greater mobility at all stages (to avoid the charge of the 11+ single chance denying late developers), and ensure that there is much greater practical provision in the community schools, then you get the best of all worlds.
At least academic selection is an attempt to reverse those financial facts.
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The problem with that SO is that in many schools a tipping point is reached and being settled whilst in the same school as the anti intellectuals is just a recipe for bullyingSouthamObserver said:I am very torn on grammar schools. I went to the last one in inner London and it gave me a superb education, with the assumption all the way through that I would go to university. As someone from a working class home I wonder if it would have been the same had I gone to a comprehensive. But then I think of my middle son, who was born in late August and always struggled at school - especially in his early teens. He would certainly not have got into a grammar school, would have ended up in a secondary modern and probably would have missed out on his place at Nottingham University that was secured on the back of a very late flowering at sixth form college.
It strikes me that there should be a level of selection at different age groups, but also a high degree of mobility between groups. And that, surely, means streaming within schools where children of all abilities are taught.0 -
It isn't signed ?Pulpstar said:
Or the voting rules:logical_song said:
Clearly not paid attention to the tactical wheel of fortunePulpstar said:MikeK said:@UKIP @Casumptious @Shazza1uk Postal vote completed. pic.twitter.com/rozoDqMzeJ
— IH8FOLLOWERS (@BluePariah1872) April 21, 2015
CAN I SIGN MY BALLOT PAPER?
People do occasionally sign their ballots but these votes do not count. They are considered rejected ballots because the voter has revealed their identity and breached the rules of a secret ballot.
Signing your ballot paper was fairly common in the 19th Century when candidates would pay people to vote for them. Under that corrupt system it was possible for the candidate to check up later who had voted for them by looking for signatures, and pay out accordingly. Today, however innocent the motive, a signature renders a ballot "rejected".
No. You DO NOT sign the ballot paper. You do sign the attachment to envelope B where you sign within the box and also give your date of birth.0 -
"telling children they have failed at the age of 11 or 13 is not an effective educational policy. I know people in their sixties and seventies who still see themselves as failures because of something that happened when they were 11."
This meme that you are a failure if you don't get into grammar school, suggests two things:
1) Grammar schools were places that managed to achieve great success for a large number of people who went there (regardless of background) and so there is a [perceived] disadvantage in life if you didn't get in.
2) That the alternatives failed too many people.
Getting rid of something, because it was too successful seems like a very stupid approach. It should be that you look how their success can be replicated and expanded.
The one big issue with Grammar Schools seems to middle class parents pumping loads of money into tutoring. That suggests that many the way we selected kids is based too much on a test that can be taught to be passed, but also (and it is a big problem with state schools kids getting to Oxbridge) that the schools aren't prepping the kids properly regardless of background to test such tests (be it Grammar school entry or Oxbridge).0 -
I get the distinct impression that a DUP-UKIP-Con Gov't would go down very well in certain parts of Scotlandkingbongo said:
won't be that much effort to identify it from the 4 other UKIP votesPulpstar said:I think the ballot should and could be rejected in theory, but will election staff go to that much effort to identify it at the actual count ?
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Is age 11 the best age, do you think 7 or 8 would be better?TGOHF said:roserees64 said:The tautological nuances of calling Secondary Moderns 'high schools' or community schools in areas where grammar schools exist is a deception.They are still the old secondary moderns by another name. Telling children they have failed at the age of 11 or 13 is not an effective educational policy. I know people in their sixties and seventies who still see themselves as failures because of something that happened when they were 11. Primary schools are egalitarian havens excrpt in areas where cramming for tests is the norm and private tutors are much in demand.
Would you also shelter youngsters from exam results at GCSE, A level, degree level, PhD level ? Driving test ? Cub knot badge ?
When is it acceptable to say - actually your level of proficiency isn't the bestest in the world ever ?
Personally I think that 11 is too young.0 -
Makes no difference if Laws is beaten by a Tory. One Tory beats another Tory !TheScreamingEagles said:
And the Tories being confident and others saying his expenses saga isn't playing well, and tactical Lab voters don't like him at all.Pulpstar said:@ThescreamingEagles Is this Times piece on Laws losing Yeovil backed up by anything other than the Comres SW marginal polling, and canvassing 'Sturgeon' anecdotes ?
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As any fule kno, the Border Collie is the most intelligent breed of dog. Unfortunately they are not always properly trained to drive ...TheScreamingEagles said:Is this not the greatest tweet ever?
https://twitter.com/trafficscotland/status/590780744533946368
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I had the same feelings about Brown. Jim Murphy is filling the bogey man role this time round, but that's cash related.Fenster said:Regarding the lack of pizazz in the campaign, I've said before that Gordon Brown is a big miss from politics.
I couldn't stand Gordon Brown. I had some irrational, visceral dislike for him which was matched only by the loyalty and love for him among his supporters.
In contrast, all the party leaders are all well-mannered, polite, inoffensive types who fail to either make your blood boil or engender any deep love.
As much as I detested him, bring back Gordon! He made politics a real blood-sport.
Ruth Davidson is my favourite this time round, staving off the tactical nonsense of Gove and a few others
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Utter rubbish.roserees64 said:The tautological nuances of calling Secondary Moderns 'high schools' or community schools in areas where grammar schools exist is a deception.They are still the old secondary moderns by another name. Telling children they have failed at the age of 11 or 13 is not an effective educational policy. I know people in their sixties and seventies who still see themselves as failures because of something that happened when they were 11. Primary schools are egalitarian havens excrpt in areas where cramming for tests is the norm and private tutors are much in demand.
My youngest two daughters passed the 11+ here in Bucks, and my youngest granddaughter has just done the same. However my eldest granddaughter did not pass so went to Amersham School, and did so well that she qualified for college easily. Point is that the 'comprehensive' schools in my area are excellent, standards are maintained right through the system.
And Amersham School has just had two new buildings finished, including a new sports hall, so much for Tory cuts.0 -
That's a pretty dumb comment. It is vital for LAB that the Tories gain as few seats as possible for the LDs or anyone. This is a seat battle between the blue and red teams - something that you don't appear to get.surbiton said:
Makes no difference if Laws is beaten by a Tory. One Tory beats another Tory !TheScreamingEagles said:
And the Tories being confident and others saying his expenses saga isn't playing well, and tactical Lab voters don't like him at all.Pulpstar said:@ThescreamingEagles Is this Times piece on Laws losing Yeovil backed up by anything other than the Comres SW marginal polling, and canvassing 'Sturgeon' anecdotes ?
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... such as a comment from Tim Montgomerie.Floater said:
I think Mike is very conscious that he might be seen as bigging up any little tory positive and conversely ignoring anything negative...felix said:Very surprised there's no thread header leading on the Tories regaining the lead with You Gov.
'Every little helps', as Britain largest loss making supermarket tells us.0 -
One can imagine that it would be too much trouble to track a rulebreaker down. However it was done in Winchester in '97 when a guy was done for voting using a ballot paper from a previous house owner. The winning margin was quite small ;-).kingbongo said:
won't be that much effort to identify it from the 4 other UKIP votesPulpstar said:I think the ballot should and could be rejected in theory, but will election staff go to that much effort to identify it at the actual count ?
0 -
What about losing at monopoly - is that too harsh an experience for the little darlings ?logical_song said:
Is age 11 the best age, do you think 7 or 8 would be better?TGOHF said:roserees64 said:The tautological nuances of calling Secondary Moderns 'high schools' or community schools in areas where grammar schools exist is a deception.They are still the old secondary moderns by another name. Telling children they have failed at the age of 11 or 13 is not an effective educational policy. I know people in their sixties and seventies who still see themselves as failures because of something that happened when they were 11. Primary schools are egalitarian havens excrpt in areas where cramming for tests is the norm and private tutors are much in demand.
Would you also shelter youngsters from exam results at GCSE, A level, degree level, PhD level ? Driving test ? Cub knot badge ?
When is it acceptable to say - actually your level of proficiency isn't the bestest in the world ever ?
Personally I think that 11 is too young.
Life is harsh - get the blighters toughened up from an early age.0 -
Hard to disagree - @krishgm: So today on #c4news Jon talks to Farage, Gary talks to Miliband and I talk to Robert Downey Jr. I think I won that one0
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I thought Poodles were the smartest hence appearing in circuses. Collies are very smart either way. Ditto GSDs. My white one could finish a puzzle forecast to take 20mins in 5.Carnyx said:
As any fule kno, the Border Collie is the most intelligent breed of dog. Unfortunately they are not always properly trained to drive ...TheScreamingEagles said:Is this not the greatest tweet ever?
https://twitter.com/trafficscotland/status/5907807445339463680 -
The abolition of grammar schools was a hugely popular policy when it came in because alongside it meant the abolition of secondary moderns as well. That was why Maggie T when she was Ed Sec continued with the programme that had been started by Labour.FrancisUrquhart said:"telling children they have failed at the age of 11 or 13 is not an effective educational policy. I know people in their sixties and seventies who still see themselves as failures because of something that happened when they were 11."
This meme that you are a failure if you don't get into grammar school, suggests two things:
1) Grammar schools were places that managed to achieve great success for a large number of people who went there (regardless of background) and so there is a [perceived] disadvantage in life if you didn't get in.
2) That the alternatives failed too many people.
Getting rid of something, because it was too successful seems like a very stupid approach. It should be that you look how their success can be replicated and expanded.
The one big issue with Grammar Schools seems to middle class parents pumping loads of money into tutoring. That suggests that many the way we selected kids is based too much on a test that can be taught to be passed, but also (and it is a big problem with state schools kids getting to Oxbridge) that the schools aren't prepping the kids properly regardless of background to test such tests (be it Grammar school entry or Oxbridge).
Those wanting grammar schools back tend to ignore that what they are also proposing is the reintroduction of sec mods and there are likely to be about three times as many of the former than the latter.
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Losing a Monopoly isn't in the same league as being sent to an inferior school.TGOHF said:
What about losing at monopoly - is that too harsh an experience for the little darlings ?logical_song said:
Is age 11 the best age, do you think 7 or 8 would be better?TGOHF said:roserees64 said:The tautological nuances of calling Secondary Moderns 'high schools' or community schools in areas where grammar schools exist is a deception.They are still the old secondary moderns by another name. Telling children they have failed at the age of 11 or 13 is not an effective educational policy. I know people in their sixties and seventies who still see themselves as failures because of something that happened when they were 11. Primary schools are egalitarian havens excrpt in areas where cramming for tests is the norm and private tutors are much in demand.
Would you also shelter youngsters from exam results at GCSE, A level, degree level, PhD level ? Driving test ? Cub knot badge ?
When is it acceptable to say - actually your level of proficiency isn't the bestest in the world ever ?
Personally I think that 11 is too young.
Life is harsh - get the blighters toughened up from an early age.0 -
Note the sheer desperation of the Right to prop up its failing ideology.CarlottaVance said:
Mail has it too:Moses_ said:I presume BigJohnowls will be along shortly to apologise for the his criticisms thrown at Hitchingbrooke hospital after the health inspectors report. The inspectors have now backed down and agreed the rating was incorrect and the hospital was run the same way as a hospital in the NHS nearby. Circle health have condemned the inspectors.
This morning-- The Times Page 2
Experts say it is further evidence that the inspection was flawed and a stitch-up by Labour Party activists and trade unionists who oppose privatisation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3049718/Official-NHS-private-hospital-stitched-Watchdog-branded-Hinchingbrooke-inadequate-ignored-checks-huge-improvements-standards.html0 -
In Bucks they can try again at 12+ and I think also at 13logical_song said:
Is age 11 the best age, do you think 7 or 8 would be better?TGOHF said:roserees64 said:The tautological nuances of calling Secondary Moderns 'high schools' or community schools in areas where grammar schools exist is a deception.They are still the old secondary moderns by another name. Telling children they have failed at the age of 11 or 13 is not an effective educational policy. I know people in their sixties and seventies who still see themselves as failures because of something that happened when they were 11. Primary schools are egalitarian havens excrpt in areas where cramming for tests is the norm and private tutors are much in demand.
Would you also shelter youngsters from exam results at GCSE, A level, degree level, PhD level ? Driving test ? Cub knot badge ?
When is it acceptable to say - actually your level of proficiency isn't the bestest in the world ever ?
Personally I think that 11 is too young.0 -
I've owned two border collies, very driven dogs, strong work ethic.Plato said:I thought Poodles were the smartest hence appearing in circuses. Collies are very smart either way. Ditto GSDs. My white one could finish a puzzle forecast to take 20mins in 5.
Carnyx said:
As any fule kno, the Border Collie is the most intelligent breed of dog. Unfortunately they are not always properly trained to drive ...TheScreamingEagles said:Is this not the greatest tweet ever?
https://twitter.com/trafficscotland/status/5907807445339463680 -
The BBC seem to be keen to pull political parties up on dodgy stats (especially Tory claims), but seem to be less keen to check claims by others...
https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/food_bank_number-40853
Like the ZHC contract claims, it seems the likely number although still high is half of what is being claimed.0 -
Ideology that was begun by Labour.BenM said:
Note the sheer desperation of the Right to prop up its failing ideology.CarlottaVance said:
Mail has it too:Moses_ said:I presume BigJohnowls will be along shortly to apologise for the his criticisms thrown at Hitchingbrooke hospital after the health inspectors report. The inspectors have now backed down and agreed the rating was incorrect and the hospital was run the same way as a hospital in the NHS nearby. Circle health have condemned the inspectors.
This morning-- The Times Page 2
Experts say it is further evidence that the inspection was flawed and a stitch-up by Labour Party activists and trade unionists who oppose privatisation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3049718/Official-NHS-private-hospital-stitched-Watchdog-branded-Hinchingbrooke-inadequate-ignored-checks-huge-improvements-standards.html
Labour are an absolute disgrace, lying bastards to a man.0 -
Apols if posted before - but great article from Fraser Nelson:
Has no one bothered to explain the basic rules of politics to Nicola Sturgeon?
Fraser Nelson is baffled by the SNP leader's bizarre decision to mix with members of the public
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11550469/Has-no-one-bothered-to-explain-the-basic-rules-of-politics-to-Nicola-Sturgeon.html0 -
At what age should the transfer to secondary school take place?
In most areas of the country it is 11, but in some (eg Bedford) secondary transfer is at 13, with first and middle schools below. In the past other areas transferred at 12 (eg Surrey) but those have now disappeared?
Is there any evidence that 11 is better than 13, and does it matter if the school are selective or not?0 -
The previous Labour administration privatised more healthcare than the coalition.BenM said:
Note the sheer desperation of the Right to prop up its failing ideology.CarlottaVance said:
Mail has it too:Moses_ said:I presume BigJohnowls will be along shortly to apologise for the his criticisms thrown at Hitchingbrooke hospital after the health inspectors report. The inspectors have now backed down and agreed the rating was incorrect and the hospital was run the same way as a hospital in the NHS nearby. Circle health have condemned the inspectors.
This morning-- The Times Page 2
Experts say it is further evidence that the inspection was flawed and a stitch-up by Labour Party activists and trade unionists who oppose privatisation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3049718/Official-NHS-private-hospital-stitched-Watchdog-branded-Hinchingbrooke-inadequate-ignored-checks-huge-improvements-standards.html0 -
So it does matter if LAB lose seats to SNP then?MikeSmithson said:
That's a pretty dumb comment. It is vital for LAB that the Tories gain as few seats as possible for the LDs or anyone. This is a seat battle between the blue and red teams - something that you don't appear to get.surbiton said:
Makes no difference if Laws is beaten by a Tory. One Tory beats another Tory !TheScreamingEagles said:
And the Tories being confident and others saying his expenses saga isn't playing well, and tactical Lab voters don't like him at all.Pulpstar said:@ThescreamingEagles Is this Times piece on Laws losing Yeovil backed up by anything other than the Comres SW marginal polling, and canvassing 'Sturgeon' anecdotes ?
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I am fully aware of the history, and I wouldn't propose that either. I believe there should be a wide range of options available, not a simple choice between Grammar vs "Secondary" Modern. I support the general idea of Free Schools for instance, not particularly because of some ideological LEA's bad etc, but we need a wide range of options from a wide range of thoughts. Some of the most successful programs / ideas in the US have come from this, like KIPS and School of One. KIPS in particular has been incredibly successful.MikeSmithson said:
The abolition of grammar schools was a hugely popular policy when it came in because alongside it meant the abolition of secondary moderns as well. That was why Maggie T when she was Ed Sec continued with the programme that had been started by Labour.FrancisUrquhart said:"telling children they have failed at the age of 11 or 13 is not an effective educational policy. I know people in their sixties and seventies who still see themselves as failures because of something that happened when they were 11."
This meme that you are a failure if you don't get into grammar school, suggests two things:
1) Grammar schools were places that managed to achieve great success for a large number of people who went there (regardless of background) and so there is a [perceived] disadvantage in life if you didn't get in.
2) That the alternatives failed too many people.
Getting rid of something, because it was too successful seems like a very stupid approach. It should be that you look how their success can be replicated and expanded.
The one big issue with Grammar Schools seems to middle class parents pumping loads of money into tutoring. That suggests that many the way we selected kids is based too much on a test that can be taught to be passed, but also (and it is a big problem with state schools kids getting to Oxbridge) that the schools aren't prepping the kids properly regardless of background to test such tests (be it Grammar school entry or Oxbridge).
Those wanting grammar schools back tend to ignore that what they are also proposing is the reintroduction of sec mods and there are likely to be about three times as many of the former than the latter.
In addition, there needs to be a lot more flexibility in the ability to transfer between schools (same with universities).0 -
You should probably deride surbiton for his vote in K&S while you're at it, Mike.MikeSmithson said:
That's a pretty dumb comment. It is vital for LAB that the Tories gain as few seats as possible for the LDs or anyone. This is a seat battle between the blue and red teams - something that you don't appear to get.surbiton said:
Makes no difference if Laws is beaten by a Tory. One Tory beats another Tory !TheScreamingEagles said:
And the Tories being confident and others saying his expenses saga isn't playing well, and tactical Lab voters don't like him at all.Pulpstar said:@ThescreamingEagles Is this Times piece on Laws losing Yeovil backed up by anything other than the Comres SW marginal polling, and canvassing 'Sturgeon' anecdotes ?
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