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Labour remain the favourites for most seats at the next general election – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,268
edited 6:52AM in General
Labour remain the favourites for most seats at the next general election – politicalbetting.com

As ever, Restore Britain remain a clear lay in this market.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,656
    “A politician needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.”

    I make no predictions ....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    edited 6:58AM
    As quickly as the Russians can get air defences into Crimea, the Ukrainians find them and take them out.

    S400 radar and launcher, hit yesterday near Kerch, worth close to $100m.

    https://x.com/di_ukraine/status/2081615023970078775
  • eekeek Posts: 34,788
    FPT
    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,647
    Can't help feeling that the gloss may have worn off Andy in 3 years time but it is still difficult to see a clear alternative that can make a break through under FPTP which probably means enough Labour backbenchers will hang on to make this right. They can probably lose more than 100 seats and still have more than anyone else.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    Airbus has developed a prototype firefighting system for the A400m military cargo plane, carrying up to 22 tonnes of water or retardant, and is currently deployed fighting the fires in the South of France.

    https://x.com/airbusdefence/status/2081347234767999174

    Apparently the programme was speeded up significantly once a potential need for it arose!
    (Back to stories about wartime vs peacetime military procurement!)
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,885
    Why lay Restore at 19/1 when you could lay Tories at 3/1 with equal confidence?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,647
    Sandpit said:

    Airbus has developed a prototype firefighting system for the A400m military cargo plane, carrying up to 22 tonnes of water or retardant, and is currently deployed fighting the fires in the South of France.

    https://x.com/airbusdefence/status/2081347234767999174

    Apparently the programme was speeded up significantly once a potential need for it arose!
    (Back to stories about wartime vs peacetime military procurement!)

    Any idea what that retardant is and whether you want to be anywhere near it when it falls from the sky?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 130,006
    edited 7:22AM

    Why lay Restore at 19/1 when you could lay Tories at 3/1 with equal confidence?

    I am not confident in that, I've said if Farage quits/Reform implode then the Tory price will be much more favourable.

    It's entirely possible that Andy crashes and Burnhams.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,310
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Airbus has developed a prototype firefighting system for the A400m military cargo plane, carrying up to 22 tonnes of water or retardant, and is currently deployed fighting the fires in the South of France.

    https://x.com/airbusdefence/status/2081347234767999174

    Apparently the programme was speeded up significantly once a potential need for it arose!
    (Back to stories about wartime vs peacetime military procurement!)

    Any idea what that retardant is and whether you want to be anywhere near it when it falls from the sky?
    *nobly resists making a very inappropriate joke about the DfE*
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 130,006
    As I said at the time, scrapping Net Zero in the middle of a heatwave was stupid from Badenoch, heck even The Telegraph are getting there.

    Tim Stanley

    Climate change is real – and the Right needs to get serious about it

    The evidence is stacking up – we only have to look out of our windows


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/26/climate-change-real-right-needs-to-get-serious/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,823
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    One policy she has announced is to reinstate the 2 child benefit cap
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 61,055

    As I said at the time, scrapping Net Zero in the middle of a heatwave was stupid from Badenoch, heck even The Telegraph are getting there.

    Tim Stanley

    Climate change is real – and the Right needs to get serious about it

    The evidence is stacking up – we only have to look out of our windows


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/26/climate-change-real-right-needs-to-get-serious/

    Have you seen how coal-fired power stations Hungary is building?

    And how many the UK is building? It's a world problem. The UK is doing more than its share of the heavy lifting - but the world is still getting hotter.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,718
    Sandpit said:

    Airbus has developed a prototype firefighting system for the A400m military cargo plane, carrying up to 22 tonnes of water or retardant, and is currently deployed fighting the fires in the South of France.

    https://x.com/airbusdefence/status/2081347234767999174

    Apparently the programme was speeded up significantly once a potential need for it arose!
    (Back to stories about wartime vs peacetime military procurement!)

    I'm wondering when we start work on building desalination facilities.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,449

    Why lay Restore at 19/1 when you could lay Tories at 3/1 with equal confidence?

    Because that wouldn't have equal confidence.

    There's a path for the Tories to come out at most seats with some "events".

    There isn't with Restore.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 61,055
    edited 7:21AM

    Why lay Restore at 19/1 when you could lay Tories at 3/1 with equal confidence?

    I am not confident in that, I've said if Farage quits/Reform implode then the Tory price will be much more generous.

    It's entirely possible that Andy crashes and Burnhams.
    Still a long way to run in this Parliament.

    Labour most seats still seems the obvious outcome, if only because they have so many seats they can lose before anyone overtakes them.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,449

    As I said at the time, scrapping Net Zero in the middle of a heatwave was stupid from Badenoch, heck even The Telegraph are getting there.

    Tim Stanley

    Climate change is real – and the Right needs to get serious about it

    The evidence is stacking up – we only have to look out of our windows


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/26/climate-change-real-right-needs-to-get-serious/

    It's not the aspiration that's then problem, its the dogmatic legally binding target.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,788

    As I said at the time, scrapping Net Zero in the middle of a heatwave was stupid from Badenoch, heck even The Telegraph are getting there.

    Tim Stanley

    Climate change is real – and the Right needs to get serious about it

    The evidence is stacking up – we only have to look out of our windows


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/26/climate-change-real-right-needs-to-get-serious/

    It's not the aspiration that's then problem, its the dogmatic legally binding target.
    Even if that's the case the time to announce that you want to bin it is in the middle of winter not 10 days before we get the hottest period of weather ever recorded in the UK..
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 61,055
    edited 7:25AM
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
  • interestedinterested Posts: 88
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,227
    edited 7:28AM

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,656

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,215

    As I said at the time, scrapping Net Zero in the middle of a heatwave was stupid from Badenoch, heck even The Telegraph are getting there.

    Tim Stanley

    Climate change is real – and the Right needs to get serious about it

    The evidence is stacking up – we only have to look out of our windows


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/26/climate-change-real-right-needs-to-get-serious/

    It's not the aspiration that's then problem, its the dogmatic legally binding target.
    Stanley's article is addressed to the significant part of the right who are still vocally in denial of climate change.
  • interestedinterested Posts: 88
    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Airbus has developed a prototype firefighting system for the A400m military cargo plane, carrying up to 22 tonnes of water or retardant, and is currently deployed fighting the fires in the South of France.

    https://x.com/airbusdefence/status/2081347234767999174

    Apparently the programme was speeded up significantly once a potential need for it arose!
    (Back to stories about wartime vs peacetime military procurement!)

    Any idea what that retardant is and whether you want to be anywhere near it when it falls from the sky?
    It’s mostly water, with phosphates and iron oxide.

    https://www.npr.org/2025/01/10/nx-s1-5254179/los-angeles-wildfires-flame-retardant

    The red stuff is more commonly used to stop a fire spreading (the other ingredients react with plants to render them non-flammable), for actually putting out extant fires they use straight water.

    You wouldn’t want to be underneath either though, they can and do write off cars from the force of the water pressure!
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,656

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 61,055

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
  • interestedinterested Posts: 88
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,227
    edited 7:43AM

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Or what? Burnham has the same issue every government has - the electorate don’t want cuts and they don’t want tax rises (on them). It’s an impossible situation unless the government is willing to be brave and willing to lead the electorate, not follow. There isn’t really a “right” answer. Higher taxes will objectively help, lower spending will objectively help. The problem is that the electorate will be happy with neither.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,635

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    A few weeks ago, weren't you advocating clearing all student debt? Sounds like detachment from reality to me....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    Zelensky and Burnham have spoken, the Ukranian president would like to build a drone factory in the UK and share technology.

    https://x.com/zelenskyyua/status/2081625662658367729

    Fingers crossed this relationship survives the change of administration, as has happened previously.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,635

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,227
    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    A few weeks ago, weren't you advocating clearing all student debt? Sounds like detachment from reality to me....
    Still am pal. It would certainly help my cost of living which would presumably boost the economy. That’s what low tax advocates seem to suggest anyway.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,788
    edited 7:45AM

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,635

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    A few weeks ago, weren't you advocating clearing all student debt? Sounds like detachment from reality to me....
    Still am pal. It would certainly help my cost of living which would presumably boost the economy. That’s what low tax advocates seem to suggest anyway.
    Not a tax - its a loan.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,215

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    One policy she has announced is to reinstate the 2 child benefit cap
    There's also cutting foreign aid again which would be feasible if she were in government.

    I'm far more sceptical about the plans for welfare and civil service 'savings'.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,718

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Neighbour of mine told me recently that DWP is the wealthiest department of government, so I should claim some benefit or other because I'm 'entitled' to it. (Not because I *need* it.)

    I said DWP is wealthy the way someone who's maxed out the credit card is wealthy.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,227
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    A few weeks ago, weren't you advocating clearing all student debt? Sounds like detachment from reality to me....
    Still am pal. It would certainly help my cost of living which would presumably boost the economy. That’s what low tax advocates seem to suggest anyway.
    Not a tax - its a loan.
    Whatever you say mate
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,215

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Or what? Burnham has the same issue every government has - the electorate don’t want cuts and they don’t want tax rises (on them).
    Sounds like a job for Binface ...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,635
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    The 'centre right' hasn't existed since 2016. The majority of the wets couldn't stomach the power that Brexit gave us and either joined the LDs or threw their toys out of the pram in the media.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,471
    edited 7:51AM

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    You don't need to raise a particular sort of tax, just more of it.

    Wheras we all know that if Governments say they will cut expenditure and don't say where, they won't.

    The whole point of care reform is to move expenditure from individuals to the state.

    If I understand correctly that devolved governments can afford to find it, maybe what Burnham needs to do is abolish Barnett. Why can't England afford it? Ditto free bus fares from 60, free prescriptions etc
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 20,122
    edited 7:50AM

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    One policy she has announced is to reinstate the 2 child benefit cap
    Oh great! Let's fund massive increases in social care and defence with performative cruelty towards *children* that doesn't save money in the long term anyway.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Airbus has developed a prototype firefighting system for the A400m military cargo plane, carrying up to 22 tonnes of water or retardant, and is currently deployed fighting the fires in the South of France.

    https://x.com/airbusdefence/status/2081347234767999174

    Apparently the programme was speeded up significantly once a potential need for it arose!
    (Back to stories about wartime vs peacetime military procurement!)

    I'm wondering when we start work on building desalination facilities.
    Once there’s a large surplus of nuclear power.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,788
    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    The 'centre right' hasn't existed since 2016. The majority of the wets couldn't stomach the power that Brexit gave us and either joined the LDs or threw their toys out of the pram in the media.
    You seem to have forgotten Bozo's purge....
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,604
    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    The 'centre right' hasn't existed since 2016. The majority of the wets couldn't stomach the power that Brexit gave us and either joined the LDs or threw their toys out of the pram in the media.
    Perhaps they couldn't stomach the power of being poorer, isolated and "dog in a manger"?
  • eekeek Posts: 34,788
    edited 7:54AM

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    One policy she has announced is to reinstate the 2 child benefit cap
    Reversing that cost about £900m and created whole sets of problems for blended families which simply had been ignored by the Tories.

    Now granted I only know about this 2nd/3rd hand from Twin A's scout pack but the impact was significant for the families impacted and probably significantly increased the number of parents claiming money for their children's "disabilities" with everyone helping to ensure the family had enough money to vaguely live on..

  • eekeek Posts: 34,788
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
    Large number of second grade towns get decimated as their biggest employer of middle class workers closes up shop instantly leaving large numbers of large buildings unused..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,449
    Nigelb said:

    As I said at the time, scrapping Net Zero in the middle of a heatwave was stupid from Badenoch, heck even The Telegraph are getting there.

    Tim Stanley

    Climate change is real – and the Right needs to get serious about it

    The evidence is stacking up – we only have to look out of our windows


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/26/climate-change-real-right-needs-to-get-serious/

    It's not the aspiration that's then problem, its the dogmatic legally binding target.
    Stanley's article is addressed to the significant part of the right who are still vocally in denial of climate change.
    It's odd, because Thatcher got there first.

    I can only assume it's the strong Lefty/ countercultural smell that comes off those who talk about it most.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,936
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham should respond to Badenoch's nonsense by pressing ahead with a multi party approach. This is consistent with the party in power saying: This is the agreed system; the other party has agreed the system and will fund it their way; we will fund it ours. Basically that's how the post WWII social democrat consensus has worked, with only very minor and temporary divergence between the parties in overall tax levels.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,449

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    You don't need to raise a particular sort of tax, just more of it.

    Wheras we all know that if Governments say they will cut expenditure and don't say where, they won't.

    The whole point of care reform is to move expenditure from individuals to the state.

    If I understand correctly that devolved governments can afford to find it, maybe what Burnham needs to do is abolish Barnett. Why can't England afford it? Ditto free bus fares from 60, free prescriptions etc
    As a general rule, I don't really agree with stuff being "free".

    Everyone should pay something.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,449
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    That's Ian Dunt.

    The post is hysterical regardless of who wrote it, but he jumped the shark some time ago.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,788

    Nigelb said:

    As I said at the time, scrapping Net Zero in the middle of a heatwave was stupid from Badenoch, heck even The Telegraph are getting there.

    Tim Stanley

    Climate change is real – and the Right needs to get serious about it

    The evidence is stacking up – we only have to look out of our windows


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/26/climate-change-real-right-needs-to-get-serious/

    It's not the aspiration that's then problem, its the dogmatic legally binding target.
    Stanley's article is addressed to the significant part of the right who are still vocally in denial of climate change.
    It's odd, because Thatcher got there first.

    I can only assume it's the strong Lefty/ countercultural smell that comes off those who talk about it most.
    Thatcher was a scientist - she grasped the issue immediately because she understood what was going on.

    Most politicians are not scientists and regard science as either magic they don't understand or going against the desires of their constituents / friends with chequebooks - pick the most appropriate one for that politican.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 20,122
    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    The 'centre right' hasn't existed since 2016. The majority of the wets couldn't stomach the power that Brexit gave us and either joined the LDs or threw their toys out of the pram in the media.
    'can't stomach the power that Brexit gave us' is a euphemism for 'massive fuck-up' presumably, which explains the rest.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    Russian central bank cuts interest rates despite rising inflation. Because of course they did.

    https://x.com/maria_drutska/status/2081636957357289909

    What could possibly go wrong?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,215
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham should respond to Badenoch's nonsense by pressing ahead with a multi party approach. This is consistent with the party in power saying: This is the agreed system; the other party has agreed the system and will fund it their way; we will fund it ours. Basically that's how the post WWII social democrat consensus has worked, with only very minor and temporary divergence between the parties in overall tax levels.
    It is, of course, quite possible that a right of centre government gets elected and undertakes major spending cuts.
    It won't be simple, though.

    But I agree with you here. There's simply zero chance of Burnham making £14bn of spending cuts to get Badenoch onside.
    A new tax to fund social care is inevitable if Burnham actually brings in the sort of system he's talking about. It will be up to Badenoch to make the case for spending cuts on their own merit.
    She has zero leverage to demand cuts now, and she's not going to dismantle the new system if it is brought in.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 61,055

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Or what? Burnham has the same issue every government has - the electorate don’t want cuts and they don’t want tax rises (on them). It’s an impossible situation unless the government is willing to be brave and willing to lead the electorate, not follow. There isn’t really a “right” answer. Higher taxes will objectively help, lower spending will objectively help. The problem is that the electorate will be happy with neither.
    The "or what?" is that Labour get ejected from power.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,500

    Nigelb said:

    As I said at the time, scrapping Net Zero in the middle of a heatwave was stupid from Badenoch, heck even The Telegraph are getting there.

    Tim Stanley

    Climate change is real – and the Right needs to get serious about it

    The evidence is stacking up – we only have to look out of our windows


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/26/climate-change-real-right-needs-to-get-serious/

    It's not the aspiration that's then problem, its the dogmatic legally binding target.
    Stanley's article is addressed to the significant part of the right who are still vocally in denial of climate change.
    It's odd, because Thatcher got there first.

    I can only assume it's the strong Lefty/ countercultural smell that comes off those who talk about it most.
    Unfortunately, a lot of today's "Thatcherites" are no such thing- present company excepted, of course.

    Wanting the world of her father, creating that of her son and all that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,794
    On most of the latest polls though Reform would win most seats still even if they fall short of a majority. So for Labour to win most seats there would need to be a lot of anti Reform tactical voting
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,471
    edited 8:09AM

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    You don't need to raise a particular sort of tax, just more of it.

    Wheras we all know that if Governments say they will cut expenditure and don't say where, they won't.

    The whole point of care reform is to move expenditure from individuals to the state.

    If I understand correctly that devolved governments can afford to find it, maybe what Burnham needs to do is abolish Barnett. Why can't England afford it? Ditto free bus fares from 60, free prescriptions etc
    As a general rule, I don't really agree with stuff being "free".

    Everyone should pay something.
    Some form of insurance based scheme might be best. After all, a lot of people never need residential care but for those who do, it costs them and their estate a lot of money. A bit like insuring your home against fire. But even so it will probably require some sort of state subsidy
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,215
    FF43 said:

    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    The 'centre right' hasn't existed since 2016. The majority of the wets couldn't stomach the power that Brexit gave us and either joined the LDs or threw their toys out of the pram in the media.
    'can't stomach the power that Brexit gave us' is a euphemism for 'massive fuck-up' presumably, which explains the rest.
    It's the imaginary "Brexit done right" - which of course means a dozen or more different, incompatible things to the various people who voted for it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
    Large number of second grade towns get decimated as their biggest employer of middle class workers closes up shop instantly leaving large numbers of large buildings unused..
    Or they can offer competitive courses that increase earning potential, else look for more international students who will write a bigger cheque.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,394

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Or what? Burnham has the same issue every government has - the electorate don’t want cuts and they don’t want tax rises (on them). It’s an impossible situation unless the government is willing to be brave and willing to lead the electorate, not follow. There isn’t really a “right” answer. Higher taxes will objectively help, lower spending will objectively help. The problem is that the electorate will be happy with neither.
    At least Liz Truss wanted economic growth. That's the third possibility: cut, tax, growth. The tragedy is that cutting spending or increasing taxes can both inhibit growth.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,227

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Or what? Burnham has the same issue every government has - the electorate don’t want cuts and they don’t want tax rises (on them). It’s an impossible situation unless the government is willing to be brave and willing to lead the electorate, not follow. There isn’t really a “right” answer. Higher taxes will objectively help, lower spending will objectively help. The problem is that the electorate will be happy with neither.
    The "or what?" is that Labour get ejected from power.
    Well yeah. That’s how it works. The same happened to the Tories.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,500
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
    Trouble is that funding undergraduates is very much like venture capital. Some will convert that education into not much money (though often a lot of social good- does the state really want to pay full graduate price for teachers or social workers, for example?) and a few will convert it into huge paybacks. And it's really hard to tell in advance who will be in which category.

    Even trying to do it by institution/course often doesn't help, which is why those league tables of graduate salaries are bobbins.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,936
    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    The 'centre right' hasn't existed since 2016. The majority of the wets couldn't stomach the power that Brexit gave us and either joined the LDs or threw their toys out of the pram in the media.
    The absence of the 'centre right' since 2016 (ie the Brexit vote) is part of a wider distortion in UK politics which looks permanent. The distortion is that when in the EU vast numbers wanted out; and now we are out vast numbers want in.

    This is structural because the EU was structured to be several things: a free trade and low friction project, for which there is massive support; a political union project, for which there is scant support; and a free movement of people project in practice without limits which only had qualified support.

    Every option either offers the UK more than most want, or less than most want. Accountable for this state of affairs is mostly: Major, Blair, Thatcher and most of all the political class avoiding referendums on key issues for 20 years until the walls fell down.

    A desire for the centre right is a strong as ever. A reformed EU would be a central plank. It isn't available. hence the huge absence and the massive distortion of our politics: just about all Labour MPs want to join the EU but it's not on the agenda.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,227

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Or what? Burnham has the same issue every government has - the electorate don’t want cuts and they don’t want tax rises (on them). It’s an impossible situation unless the government is willing to be brave and willing to lead the electorate, not follow. There isn’t really a “right” answer. Higher taxes will objectively help, lower spending will objectively help. The problem is that the electorate will be happy with neither.
    At least Liz Truss wanted economic growth. That's the third possibility: cut, tax, growth. The tragedy is that cutting spending or increasing taxes can both inhibit growth.
    Growth isn’t a third possibility, it’s a requirement combined with one or both of the other options. You can’t just command growth, you have to nurture it and that requires either increased spending or lower costs (i.e. taxes) and that means more debt, possibly significantly more debt, in the interim.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,908
    edited 8:20AM

    Why lay Restore at 19/1 when you could lay Tories at 3/1 with equal confidence?

    Because once you've laid one party down significantly - as I have with Reform - laying another down to the same potential net loss doesn't require additional deposit (because both bets can't fail) - hence, unless you really think Restore has any chance of most seats - laying them down to the level of your highest red is just free money (probably being donated to you by Mr Lowe himself).
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,656

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,788
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
    Large number of second grade towns get decimated as their biggest employer of middle class workers closes up shop instantly leaving large numbers of large buildings unused..
    Or they can offer competitive courses that increase earning potential, else look for more international students who will write a bigger cheque.
    You may not have noticed this but over the past 5 years we’ve cut an awful lot of overseas students from coming here
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,215
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
    Large number of second grade towns get decimated as their biggest employer of middle class workers closes up shop instantly leaving large numbers of large buildings unused..
    That is already starting to happen.
    It's a process which can probably be managed if it is done over time. A radical rest would likely cause huge economic dislocation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
    Large number of second grade towns get decimated as their biggest employer of middle class workers closes up shop instantly leaving large numbers of large buildings unused..
    Or they can offer competitive courses that increase earning potential, else look for more international students who will write a bigger cheque.
    You may not have noticed this but over the past 5 years we’ve cut an awful lot of overseas students from coming here
    I thought that most of the decrease was of dubious colleges that were basically fronts for immigration, as opposed to genuine universities offering full-time degree courses?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,823
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
    It's the public labour have to persuade who are firmly against tax rises or borrowing

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,471
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
    You could do something similar with prescriptions in England. I believe about 10% are paid for. So charge £1, the saving comes from abolishing the department in Newcastle that administers it
  • interestedinterested Posts: 88

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    You don't need to raise a particular sort of tax, just more of it.

    Wheras we all know that if Governments say they will cut expenditure and don't say where, they won't.

    The whole point of care reform is to move expenditure from individuals to the state.

    If I understand correctly that devolved governments can afford to find it, maybe what Burnham needs to do is abolish Barnett. Why can't England afford it? Ditto free bus fares from 60, free prescriptions etc
    I don’t agree we need to raise more tax. Tax is currently at historically high levels and is stifling growth.

    We need to cut expenditure. I agree some governments, not all are unwilling/unable to cut taxes but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

    If we followed you logic there would be an ever growing state and tax bill. There has to be a limit and in my view we are at it.
  • interestedinterested Posts: 88

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    You don't need to raise a particular sort of tax, just more of it.

    Wheras we all know that if Governments say they will cut expenditure and don't say where, they won't.

    The whole point of care reform is to move expenditure from individuals to the state.

    If I understand correctly that devolved governments can afford to find it, maybe what Burnham needs to do is abolish Barnett. Why can't England afford it? Ditto free bus fares from 60, free prescriptions etc
    I don’t agree we need to raise more tax. Tax is currently at historically high levels and is stifling growth.

    We need to cut expenditure. I agree some governments, not all are unwilling/unable to cut taxes but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

    If we followed you logic there would be an ever growing state and tax bill. There has to be a limit and in my view we are at it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,908
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
    Badenoch knows that there is usually a good political payoff from opposing social care proposals - but also knows that if there's a spirit of consensus, there's a risk in being seen as the one who isn't playing along. Hence, cynically, she's setting down ground rules she knows will be impossible to meet, hoping that this will 'justify' the Tories' eventual opposition to whatever proposal the government (and other parties, hopefully), might come up with.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,471

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    You don't need to raise a particular sort of tax, just more of it.

    Wheras we all know that if Governments say they will cut expenditure and don't say where, they won't.

    The whole point of care reform is to move expenditure from individuals to the state.

    If I understand correctly that devolved governments can afford to find it, maybe what Burnham needs to do is abolish Barnett. Why can't England afford it? Ditto free bus fares from 60, free prescriptions etc
    I don’t agree we need to raise more tax. Tax is currently at historically high levels and is stifling growth.

    We need to cut expenditure. I agree some governments, not all are unwilling/unable to cut taxes but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

    If we followed you logic there would be an ever growing state and tax bill. There has to be a limit and in my view we are at it.
    What does the state stop doing? Making cuts to individual departments doesn't seem to work, governments have tried it, all that happens is that things aren't done that we want to be done.

    If course giving civil servants an incentive to underspebd budgets could work. Would require a massive change of culture.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,817
    Sandpit said:

    Zelensky and Burnham have spoken, the Ukranian president would like to build a drone factory in the UK and share technology.

    https://x.com/zelenskyyua/status/2081625662658367729

    Fingers crossed this relationship survives the change of administration, as has happened previously.

    Of course it will. He's not Trump.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
    Trouble is that funding undergraduates is very much like venture capital. Some will convert that education into not much money (though often a lot of social good- does the state really want to pay full graduate price for teachers or social workers, for example?) and a few will convert it into huge paybacks. And it's really hard to tell in advance who will be in which category.

    Even trying to do it by institution/course often doesn't help, which is why those league tables of graduate salaries are bobbins.
    If the institution and the lender had to split the risk, there would quickly be both a lot of data available to the decision-makers, and a revolution in the technology used for undergraduate teaching to get the cost down.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    edited 8:27AM

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    That's Ian Dunt.

    The post is hysterical regardless of who wrote it, but he jumped the shark some time ago.
    How come no-one ever mispronounces his name?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,828
    edited 8:27AM
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
    Badders is hemmed in by a relevancy deficit on one side and the need for policy ambiguity on the other. Big Nige is the de facto LotO so Kemi has to act like that ginger kid at my school who used to lick dog shit for attention, though the unpleasant stridency does see to come slightly too naturally to her. She also doesn't know if her primary target needs to be the Fukkers or Labour at the next GE so she definitely doesn't want to have any sharp policy focus at this point.

    That's why we get what we get from her; churlishly delivered Zero Sugar Reform UK.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,817
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
    Large number of second grade towns get decimated as their biggest employer of middle class workers closes up shop instantly leaving large numbers of large buildings unused..
    Or they can offer competitive courses that increase earning potential, else look for more international students who will write a bigger cheque.
    You may not have noticed this but over the past 5 years we’ve cut an awful lot of overseas students from coming here
    I thought that most of the decrease was of dubious colleges that were basically fronts for immigration, as opposed to genuine universities offering full-time degree courses?
    You thought wrong.
  • interestedinterested Posts: 88
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
    I don’t want you to tell me where we should cut expenses. But if Badenoch is criticised for not saying where should would cut Burnham should be criticised for not saying where he would raise the taxes.

    I don’t doubt we could cut government expenditure significantly If there was 5he political will.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,500

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
    It's the public labour have to persuade who are firmly against tax rises or borrowing

    Trouble is that the public are equally firmly against the crumbling nature of very many things that the state does.

    And whilst it would be lovely to believe that One Weird Trick would bring the British state back to a position where we can spend more and tax less... I'm not seeing it.

    Reinstating the two-child benefit cap (which does create problems) saves 3 billion a year, tops.

    Stretching North Sea oil and gas brings in about a billion a year, if the lobbyists are right (ahem).

    Together, that's £1 per head per week.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,633
    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    The 'centre right' hasn't existed since 2016. The majority of the wets couldn't stomach the power that Brexit gave us and either joined the LDs or threw their toys out of the pram in the media.
    The power of parliament, before Brexit and now, is constrained by what the public will vote for. This does not include the sort of extreme right wing policies that float your boat or their left wing equivalent. The Brexit freedoms largely boil down to the ability to do things we don't want to do.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 61,055
    edited 8:33AM
    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    The 'centre right' hasn't existed since 2016. The majority of the wets couldn't stomach the power that Brexit gave us and either joined the LDs or threw their toys out of the pram in the media.
    The power of parliament, before Brexit and now, is constrained by what the public will vote for. This does not include the sort of extreme right wing policies that float your boat or their left wing equivalent. The Brexit freedoms largely boil down to the ability to do things we don't want to do.
    No, they boil down to the ability to do things YOU don't want to do.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 20,122
    edited 8:34AM
    IanB2 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
    Badenoch knows that there is usually a good political payoff from opposing social care proposals - but also knows that if there's a spirit of consensus, there's a risk in being seen as the one who isn't playing along. Hence, cynically, she's setting down ground rules she knows will be impossible to meet, hoping that this will 'justify' the Tories' eventual opposition to whatever proposal the government (and other parties, hopefully), might come up with.
    Interesting and you're probably right. This cynicism about how to pay for it is how every previous social welfare proposal was sunk. It would be less disingenuous to say the state shouldn't be in the business of providing social care but Badenoch doesn't want to say that, so she can achieve the same outcome by pretending it's due to government mismanagement of expenditure.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,633

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    We need to educate the electorate - as we can't change them.

    But that's an impossible task especially when Kemi is playing politics badly. This is an interesting and accurate insight into the harm Kemi is doing

    https://bsky.app/profile/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3mrmdcgsr722n

    Said this before, will again. Badenoch is the most dangerous figure in British politics. She's not as extreme as Farage or Lowe, but her impact is more pernicious. She actively prevents the British centre-right from adopting moderate positions, and thereby facilitates the radicalisation process.

    Instead, what is she doing? Purging moderates in her party who still believe in human rights and climate change. Fucks her electoral prospects, fucks conservatism, fucks British public life. She really is a wicked malignant idiot.
    The 'centre right' hasn't existed since 2016. The majority of the wets couldn't stomach the power that Brexit gave us and either joined the LDs or threw their toys out of the pram in the media.
    The power of parliament, before Brexit and now, is constrained by what the public will vote for. This does not include the sort of extreme right wing policies that float your boat or their left wing equivalent. The Brexit freedoms largely boil down to the ability to do things we don't want to do.
    No, they boil down to the ability to do things YOU don't want to do.
    Or you. That's exactly the point.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,819
    edited 8:36AM

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
    It's the public labour have to persuade who are firmly against tax rises or borrowing

    Badenoch's critique of Burnham* last week was ludicrous. "He can't afford his announcements, and his announcements don't go far enough". (My precis).

    All the Badenoch fanbois on here are claiming she has a plan**. She appears simply to have a soundbite.

    * N.B. He's FOS too.

    ** She's in opposition. She doesn't need a plan-yet.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 61,055

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    You don't need to raise a particular sort of tax, just more of it.

    Wheras we all know that if Governments say they will cut expenditure and don't say where, they won't.

    The whole point of care reform is to move expenditure from individuals to the state.

    If I understand correctly that devolved governments can afford to find it, maybe what Burnham needs to do is abolish Barnett. Why can't England afford it? Ditto free bus fares from 60, free prescriptions etc
    I don’t agree we need to raise more tax. Tax is currently at historically high levels and is stifling growth.

    We need to cut expenditure. I agree some governments, not all are unwilling/unable to cut taxes but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

    If we followed you logic there would be an ever growing state and tax bill. There has to be a limit and in my view we are at it.
    What does the state stop doing? Making cuts to individual departments doesn't seem to work, governments have tried it, all that happens is that things aren't done that we want to be done.

    If course giving civil servants an incentive to underspebd budgets could work. Would require a massive change of culture.
    If they don't save 20% - nobody in the civil service will get gongs.

    Problem will sort itself.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,633
    I'll stand anyone a bet on this.

    As long as PB exists we will never do any big fundamental reform of how the country works that we could not have done as a member of the EU.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,227

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Burnham sets his stall out with the "Government can do more". Socialism from 40 years ago.

    That means more borrowing/more tax/likely both.

    There is a greater tana evens chance that doesn't deliver - or at least becomes very unpopular as the perceived benefits don't outweigh the real costs.
    Well, that’s because the electorate is detached from reality and thinks everything is free, or should be free
    Burnham better change the electorate then.
    Politicians are just a bit slow in recognising the reality: we need massive deregulation to encourage economic growth. That is the only way to afford our over generous welfare state....
    Now there is a way the government can save an awful lot of money.

    Undergrad student finance to be negotiated between student, institution, and lender, with no government involvement, underwriting, or backstopping loans.
    You could do something similar with prescriptions in England. I believe about 10% are paid for. So charge £1, the saving comes from abolishing the department in Newcastle that administers it
    The department in Newcastle, i.e. NHS Business Services does a lot more than just administering prescriptions and is already very understaffed. This would be another fairytale saving.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,740
    kinabalu said:

    I'll stand anyone a bet on this.

    As long as PB exists we will never do any big fundamental reform of how the country works that we could not have done as a member of the EU.

    It’ll almost certainly be the UK being outside the EU on AI and ‘Big Tech’ regulation.

    The biggest savings come from being outside the ratchet, which happens all by itself.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,500

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
    It's the public labour have to persuade who are firmly against tax rises or borrowing

    Badenoch's critique of Burnham* last week was ludicrous. "He can't afford his announcements, and his announcements don't go far enough". (My precis).

    All the Badenoch fanbois on here are claiming she has a plan**. She appears simply to have a soundbite.

    * N.B. He's FOS too.

    ** She's in opposition. She doesn't need a plan-yet.
    Except we're 2-3 years from the next election.

    If KB isn't expecting to be PM, it's fine for her to carry on without a plan beyond heckling the government. Much like Starmer pre-Trusstershambles. But if she carries on like this, and events ping her into Downing Street, she will end up like him.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,986
    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    I don't think this is true. After all Starmer somehow won a majority with about 33.7% of the vote. Its not impossible that Reform sink without trace. It would only take one heart attack or stroke after all.

    I don't agree with her on this. We have avoided the question on social care for far too long. We also have a set of hugely selfish people who believe that they have the right to inherit their parents wealth, including the vastly inflated money from house price inflation yet everyone else should pay for their dad's arse to be wiped when Alzheimer's sets in. I do despair of our country at times.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 882

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jul/27/theyre-anxious-about-everything-life-for-young-people-seeking-work-in-dudley-and-lewisham

    Another sobering article on the jobs outlook for young people. One statistic that really jumped out at me was the 88% real terms cut in youth services spending in Dudley since 2011. And yet we can afford the triple lock, apparently. Does a country that is so careless with its young deserve a future?

    Yes, this definitely should be bigger news. I feel sorry for young graduates and school leavers today, job prospects in some lines of work look terrible. Retail will be particularly bad for 16/17 year olds looking to get their first weekend job under their belt. Its not just a town centre thing, its right across the country
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,215
    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
    Badenoch knows that there is usually a good political payoff from opposing social care proposals - but also knows that if there's a spirit of consensus, there's a risk in being seen as the one who isn't playing along. Hence, cynically, she's setting down ground rules she knows will be impossible to meet, hoping that this will 'justify' the Tories' eventual opposition to whatever proposal the government (and other parties, hopefully), might come up with.
    Interesting and you're probably right. This cynicism about how to pay for it is how every previous social welfare proposal was sunk. It would be less disingenuous to say the state shouldn't be in the business of providing social care but Badenoch doesn't want to say that, so she can achieve the same outcome by pretending it's due to government mismanagement of expenditure.
    A united front.

    Tories and Reform UK tell Burnham they will fight any plan to reform adult social care involving tax rises
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2026/jul/27/andy-burnham-social-care-politics-live-latest-news-defence-nhs-reform-uk-tories-updates
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,819

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    Excl: Kemi Badenoch will only support Andy Burnham’s social care reforms if they are funded by cutting spending rather than raising taxes.

    Beginning to sound like a LibDem. Can you imagine the gales of laughter from the Labour back benches if Ed Davey said the same. Labour are being kind in not pointing out how irrelevant her votes are.
    Will some journalist please stand up for common sense and show an IQ above 10 and actually ask her how the fuck do you solve an issue that successive Governments including the one she served in and whch held power for 14 years can implement such massive change that is required without taxing more or borrowing more.

    Seriously.

    She has no answers, just stupid sound bites delivered with utter arrogance and contempt for commonsense!
    Try getting used to the idea of Govt. spending less.

    It's the only way out of our woes.
    At least one politician has the guts to say it. You can’t tax your way to growth, and there needs to be a reduction in the scope of government.

    Now, actually putting a specific reduction of the scope of government in a manifesto, and then get elected on it, is a more difficult exercise, but at least Kemi is working in the right direction in opposition.
    She's in opposition without any chance of getting elected.

    However she wants cuts so I would give her some and just tell all Labour Mps to have the night off so that the Tory party owns the cuts.
    Badenoch is pretty ridiculous here promising to collaborate with social care reform *if it doesn't cost anything*.

    I note she doesn't suggest where she's gong to save £14bn a year.
    On top of the increase in defence spending she's advocating.

    It's the usual "we'll cut waste" rhetoric.

    Is there potential on the right of politics to advocate leaner government - of course. But that means government doing less.
    And until they're honest about what they would cut, and how they cut, and who would lose out, it's no more than the same rhetoric we've heard for decades.
    Why is Badenoch wrong to not explain what she would cut but Burnham is not criticised for not explaining how he might fund?
    The FT still have their page where you can 'run the country' from the Treasury. Have a look.

    https://ig.ft.com/chancellor-game/
    Save me the time. What’s the answer?
    What's the answer? DYOR.
    So you haven’t got an answer.
    Perhaps there is a need for an overview. The FT game gives choices. Do you want to cut. where and by how much. It generates a financial outcome to show debt, taxes and the effect on different departments. So there is no 'correct' answer but it does allow anyone to test their theories before they are released into the wild. Then it's all about explaining to the losers why they should still vote for the hypothetical PM/Chancellor.

    But if you want me to put something up for you to have a go at, then most costs are hardwired into the budget through legislation. So a minor party (LibDems / Conservatives / Reform etc) can spout a lot of hot air but have no means of effecting them at present. They don't even have any leverage given the size of Labours majority. To effect change requires votes *and* the ability to get the legislation through parliament. Kemi has neither, nor a plan, nor a menu - only soundbites.
    It's the public labour have to persuade who are firmly against tax rises or borrowing

    Badenoch's critique of Burnham* last week was ludicrous. "He can't afford his announcements, and his announcements don't go far enough". (My precis).

    All the Badenoch fanbois on here are claiming she has a plan**. She appears simply to have a soundbite.

    * N.B. He's FOS too.

    ** She's in opposition. She doesn't need a plan-yet.
    Except we're 2-3 years from the next election.

    If KB isn't expecting to be PM, it's fine for her to carry on without a plan beyond heckling the government. Much like Starmer pre-Trusstershambles. But if she carries on like this, and events ping her into Downing Street, she will end up like him.
    That is a fair point.
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