Nigel Farage is becoming even more unpopular – politicalbetting.com

System · 10:53AM

Nigel Farage is becoming even more unpopular – politicalbetting.com

? NEW @Ipsos_in_the_UK / @LBC poll: Labour narrows the gap to 2 ?Reform UK 26% (-1)Labour 24% (+4)Conservative 18% (-1)Greens 13% (-1)Lib Dem 11% (-1)Others 8% (-)1,045 GB adults interviewed online 25–30 June 2026. Changes from May. pic.twitter.com/7K1XeksWwT

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kinabalu · 10:58AM

He certainly is with me.

Morris_Dancer · 10:59AM

Unpopular? Nonsense. He's so likeable total strangers give him £5m just to ensure he can afford groceries, without expecting anything in return.

Malmesbury · 10:59AM

Hmmmm

HYUFD · 11:00AM

Farage's 26% satsifaction rating with Ipsos now exactly matches Reform's 26% voteshare and is well below the over 30% satisfaction rating and over 30% Reform voteshare last year in polls when Reform were heading for a majority. Now they may not even win most seats with a Burnham led Labour likely to take a small lead based on hypothetical polls.

Kemi now has a 28% satisfaction rating, higher than Farage's, so if she can get that 28% to all vote Tory the Tories would also overtake Reform and be neck and neck with even a Burnham led Labour. Squeezing those who supported Reform last year having voted Tory in 2024 but have now gone off Farage and some Labour voters who voted for Starmer in 2024 having voted Conservative in 2019 and think Burnham is too leftwing will be key to that for Kemi

AnneJGP · 11:07AM

Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.

Nigelb · 11:09AM

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.

"Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea."
And variations on that theme.

DougSeal · 11:15AM

He's cut out for the role of professional disruptor, a complainer in chief. Actually running something, a party let alone a country, not really

Casino_Royale · 11:17AM

HYUFD said:
Farage's 26% satsifaction rating with Ipsos now exactly matches Reform's 26% voteshare and is well below the over 30% satisfaction rating and over 30% Reform voteshare last year in polls when Reform were heading for a majority. Now they may not even win most seats with a Burnham led Labour likely to take a small lead based on hypothetical polls.

Kemi now has a 28% satisfaction rating, higher than Farage's, so if she can get that 28% to all vote Tory the Tories would also overtake Reform and be neck and neck with even a Burnham led Labour. Squeezing those who supported Reform last year having voted Tory in 2024 but have now gone off Farage and some Labour voters who voted for Starmer in 2024 having voted Conservative in 2019 and think Burnham is too leftwing will be key to that for Kemi

Kemi needs to be up at 35%.

There's an opportunity if Burnham's Labour lurch to the Left, and Reform are spinning wheels on the economy.

Fairliered · 11:18AM

DougSeal said:
He's cut out for the role of professional disruptor, a complainer in chief. Actually running something, a party let alone a country, not really

He would make an excellent next head of FIFA.

AnneJGP · 11:18AM

Nigelb said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
"Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea."
And variations on that theme.

From your point of view, yes. But it isn't your point of view that's at issue here.

Malmesbury · 11:19AM

Fairliered said:

DougSeal said:
He's cut out for the role of professional disruptor, a complainer in chief. Actually running something, a party let alone a country, not really
He would make an excellent next head of FIFA.

Trump is more qualified - billions rather than millions.

algarkirk · 11:22AM

WRT Tory improvement currently lacking in the polls, I think there are three main reasons:

1) Beyond a certain level people will not give a preference for voting for Kemi. To be effective she either needs to be massively competent and compelling as the one who can turn the country round; or she needs to be very likeable; or the alternatives need to be worse. In the current climate it isn't enough to say what is wrong with Labour. We already know. You have to be very good on coherent and comprehensible solutions.

2) For people who don't like Reform it is not sufficiently clear that the Tories would not get in bed with them under any circumstances.

3) For people who do like Reform they can either stick, switch to Lowe, DK or won't vote.

The Tories need to sort (1) and (2) urgently, and leave (3) to organise itself.

Richard_Tyndall · 11:29AM

FPT

Cicero said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cicero said:

SandyRentool said:

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Scott_xP said:
@hattifattener.bsky.social‬

As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.
Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

Bloody ex-pats!

(With apologies to @Sandpit !)
Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

FFS UK, GROW UP!
LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

You need to grow a sense of humour.
That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.

No. You find it irritating and project onto others. That in itself is a very irritating habit and makes you seem like something of a bore.

algarkirk · 11:31AM

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:
Farage's 26% satsifaction rating with Ipsos now exactly matches Reform's 26% voteshare and is well below the over 30% satisfaction rating and over 30% Reform voteshare last year in polls when Reform were heading for a majority. Now they may not even win most seats with a Burnham led Labour likely to take a small lead based on hypothetical polls.

Kemi now has a 28% satisfaction rating, higher than Farage's, so if she can get that 28% to all vote Tory the Tories would also overtake Reform and be neck and neck with even a Burnham led Labour. Squeezing those who supported Reform last year having voted Tory in 2024 but have now gone off Farage and some Labour voters who voted for Starmer in 2024 having voted Conservative in 2019 and think Burnham is too leftwing will be key to that for Kemi
Kemi needs to be up at 35%.

There's an opportunity if Burnham's Labour lurch to the Left, and Reform are spinning wheels on the economy.

I think this is right, but that the chances of Labour lurching to the left is actually slightly reduced by Burnham's crowning. He knows that there isn't huge space for borrow and spend, only some space for tax and spend, and that the extra spending won't be on uniquely left projects.

He also will believe that Labour MPs want to hold on to their seats, many in old Tory heartlands, and their scope for rebellion is small, as they are in the last chance saloon for leadership before a 2028/9 election.

IMHO Kemi's best chance is a combination of Reform sinking/splitting and Tories actually showing competence and some fight. Though I increasingly feel that the Tories may decide they need a new leader by about 12 months time. They have been protected by Labour having a leader who isn't a natural leader. No longer.

dixiedean · 11:31AM

algarkirk said:
WRT Tory improvement currently lacking in the polls, I think there are three main reasons:

1) Beyond a certain level people will not give a preference for voting for Kemi. To be effective she either needs to be massively competent and compelling as the one who can turn the country round; or she needs to be very likeable; or the alternatives need to be worse. In the current climate it isn't enough to say what is wrong with Labour. We already know. You have to be very good on coherent and comprehensible solutions.

2) For people who don't like Reform it is not sufficiently clear that the Tories would not get in bed with them under any circumstances.

3) For people who do like Reform they can either stick, switch to Lowe, DK or won't vote.

The Tories need to sort (1) and (2) urgently, and leave (3) to organise itself.

4) And most importantly IMHO. Across huge swathes of the country they are running third or even lower.
Difficult to get folk to say they will vote Tory when they are seen as a wasted vote. NB the derisory totals in Caerphilly, Gorton and Makerfield.
Their vote holds up well when they are regarded as being in with a chance. Disappears almost entirely when they aren't.
A bit like the Lib Dems.

kinabalu · 11:32AM

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.

Is Rupert Lowe an impressive operator then?

I haven't had exposure to him - and probably won't seek to rectify that - so I must rely on others for this.

Pulpstar · 11:33AM

Sepp Blatter's tweet today regarding the red card is a reminder that sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for

If Farage goes, cui bono ?

Roger · 11:34AM

If Mr Manchester plays his cards right it isn't difficult to see the Lib Dems the Greens and Labour voting reasonably interchangeably. I don't think it's much too early to declare the odious foul Farage finished

DecrepiterJohnL · 11:36AM

Falsely convicted man who spent £500k clearing his name is rejected for compensation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8925nd4e59o

Yet another case. How hard would it be to sort out the compensation problem? How hard to process appeals in a timely manner?

Actually it may be impossible until we have a government prepared to take these decisions away from the court system.

Ratters · 11:36AM

Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

Driver · 11:37AM

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.

The one thing that really stands out about Lowe is how utterly unapologetic he is about his views.

Driver · 11:38AM

Richard_Tyndall said:
FPT

Cicero said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cicero said:

SandyRentool said:

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Scott_xP said:
@hattifattener.bsky.social‬

As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.
Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

Bloody ex-pats!

(With apologies to @Sandpit !)
Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

FFS UK, GROW UP!
LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

You need to grow a sense of humour.
That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
No. You find it irritating and project onto others. That in itself is a very irritating habit and makes you seem like something of a bore.

There were only three people here not in the spirit this morning.

None of them was a surprise.

Malmesbury · 11:40AM

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Falsely convicted man who spent £500k clearing his name is rejected for compensation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8925nd4e59o

Yet another case. How hard would it be to sort out the compensation problem? How hard to process appeals in a timely manner?

Actually it may be impossible until we have a government prepared to take these decisions away from the court system.

The reason for that case is a political decisions that compensation is only paid when the convicted party can *prove their innocence*

This guy got a Not Guilty on re-trial.

The reason is that the politicians were scared that they would get cases of "Guilty, but got off on a technicality. Wins the taxpayer lottery" in the papers

kinabalu · 11:41AM

dixiedean said:

algarkirk said:
WRT Tory improvement currently lacking in the polls, I think there are three main reasons:

1) Beyond a certain level people will not give a preference for voting for Kemi. To be effective she either needs to be massively competent and compelling as the one who can turn the country round; or she needs to be very likeable; or the alternatives need to be worse. In the current climate it isn't enough to say what is wrong with Labour. We already know. You have to be very good on coherent and comprehensible solutions.

2) For people who don't like Reform it is not sufficiently clear that the Tories would not get in bed with them under any circumstances.

3) For people who do like Reform they can either stick, switch to Lowe, DK or won't vote.

The Tories need to sort (1) and (2) urgently, and leave (3) to organise itself.
4) And most importantly IMHO. Across huge swathes of the country they are running third or even lower.
Difficult to get folk to say they will vote Tory when they are seen as a wasted vote. NB the derisory totals in Caerphilly, Gorton and Makerfield.
Their vote holds up well when they are regarded as being in with a chance. Disappears almost entirely when they aren't.
A bit like the Lib Dems.

Yes, that's a big problem for them. Accompanied by that plague on minor parties, the constant questioning line of "who would you back in a hung parliament?" (to which all answers are bad).

A collapse of Reform (down to half where they are now) is a pre-condition for a Conservative revival. Of course that works to some extent the opposite way too. The two things have a mutual dependency.

Malmesbury · 11:45AM

algarkirk said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:
Farage's 26% satsifaction rating with Ipsos now exactly matches Reform's 26% voteshare and is well below the over 30% satisfaction rating and over 30% Reform voteshare last year in polls when Reform were heading for a majority. Now they may not even win most seats with a Burnham led Labour likely to take a small lead based on hypothetical polls.

Kemi now has a 28% satisfaction rating, higher than Farage's, so if she can get that 28% to all vote Tory the Tories would also overtake Reform and be neck and neck with even a Burnham led Labour. Squeezing those who supported Reform last year having voted Tory in 2024 but have now gone off Farage and some Labour voters who voted for Starmer in 2024 having voted Conservative in 2019 and think Burnham is too leftwing will be key to that for Kemi
Kemi needs to be up at 35%.

There's an opportunity if Burnham's Labour lurch to the Left, and Reform are spinning wheels on the economy.
I think this is right, but that the chances of Labour lurching to the left is actually slightly reduced by Burnham's crowning. He knows that there isn't huge space for borrow and spend, only some space for tax and spend, and that the extra spending won't be on uniquely left projects.

He also will believe that Labour MPs want to hold on to their seats, many in old Tory heartlands, and their scope for rebellion is small, as they are in the last chance saloon for leadership before a 2028/9 election.

IMHO Kemi's best chance is a combination of Reform sinking/splitting and Tories actually showing competence and some fight. Though I increasingly feel that the Tories may decide they need a new leader by about 12 months time. They have been protected by Labour having a leader who isn't a natural leader. No longer.

The Conservative Party has been consistently polling below Kemi's approval rating. This is why there is little internal question of her being replaced.

Starmer has been consistently polling below Labour. Which is why he is being replaced.

Farage is showing signs of becoming a drag on Reform. Which is why there are mutterings.

Richard_Tyndall · 11:45AM

Ratters said:
Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

I have to admit I have been quite taken with the new format. Allowing countries such as Scotland and Cape Verde a greater chance of taking part has much enhanced the event both from a footballing and a supporters point of view. Ignoring for a moment the enjoyment of seeing England do well, the highlights of this tournament for me have been the Scottish supporters and the Cape Verde Goalkeeper. I am actually far more invested in this World Cup than I planned or expected to be.

dixiedean · 11:46AM

dixiedean said:

algarkirk said:
WRT Tory improvement currently lacking in the polls, I think there are three main reasons:

1) Beyond a certain level people will not give a preference for voting for Kemi. To be effective she either needs to be massively competent and compelling as the one who can turn the country round; or she needs to be very likeable; or the alternatives need to be worse. In the current climate it isn't enough to say what is wrong with Labour. We already know. You have to be very good on coherent and comprehensible solutions.

2) For people who don't like Reform it is not sufficiently clear that the Tories would not get in bed with them under any circumstances.

3) For people who do like Reform they can either stick, switch to Lowe, DK or won't vote.

The Tories need to sort (1) and (2) urgently, and leave (3) to organise itself.
4) And most importantly IMHO. Across huge swathes of the country they are running third or even lower.
Difficult to get folk to say they will vote Tory when they are seen as a wasted vote. NB the derisory totals in Caerphilly, Gorton and Makerfield.
Their vote holds up well when they are regarded as being in with a chance. Disappears almost entirely when they aren't.
A bit like the Lib Dems.

In a six or seven Party system though you need to be at least a close and competitive third place in a majority of seats to avoid your vote totally cratering.
Then you need to be sensible enough to attract the negative votes.
They aren't close to that right now.
They're managing only the second half of that.

Fairliered · 11:47AM

Driver said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
The one thing that really stands out about Lowe is how utterly unapologetic he is about his views.

I expect he will get a chance to air his views during the next series of Question Time. I would like to see him debating Yusuf.

dixiedean · 11:49AM

Fairliered said:

Driver said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
The one thing that really stands out about Lowe is how utterly unapologetic he is about his views.
I expect he will get a chance to air his views during the next series of Question Time. I would like to see him debating Yusuf.

Well they'll be one panellist short on every show now Farage has gone into hiding.

MattW · 11:52AM

FPT:

Casino_Royale said:

Cicero said:

SandyRentool said:

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Scott_xP said:
@hattifattener.bsky.social‬

As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.
Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

Bloody ex-pats!

(With apologies to @Sandpit !)
Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

FFS UK, GROW UP!
You are quite right.

The French would never do this and name major railway stations after famous military victories, or raise a triumphant arch dedicated to remembering them either.

The French name their ships after famous Admirals who beat the British.

The problem was that the most recent one was Pierre André de Suffren who won his battles in the 18th century

.

(At this point I will be out-detailed by someone mentioning something 3 weeks or 3 years more recent.)

kinabalu · 11:56AM

Richard_Tyndall said:

Ratters said:
Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

I have to admit I have been quite taken with the new format. Allowing countries such as Scotland and Cape Verde a greater chance of taking part has much enhanced the event both from a footballing and a supporters point of view. Ignoring for a moment the enjoyment of seeing England do well, the highlights of this tournament for me have been the Scottish supporters and the Cape Verde Goalkeeper. I am actually far more invested in this World Cup than I planned or expected to be.

For all the (justified) talk about corruption and profiteering and (imo unjustified) talk about it being 'bloated' with too many teams and matches the tournament almost always delivers and this one (thus far) really has.

I am happy with it expanding to 64 teams, 16 groups of 4. That's probably the target endstate. Getting India and China in there must be a major objective for FIFA.

Theuniondivvie · 11:56AM

Driver said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
The one thing that really stands out about Lowe is how utterly unapologetic he is about his views.

I've not noticed Farage ever being apologetic about his views, only chopping and changing them to the point of outright contradiction if he thinks it will advantage himself. I guess Lowe may come over as authentically & consistently far right which may attract the people who like that sort of thing. Also he's rich enough not to have to hoor himself for money unlike poor old Nigel, down to his last 5 properties and £5m.

Theuniondivvie · 12:00PM

MattW said:
FPT:

Casino_Royale said:

Cicero said:

SandyRentool said:

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Scott_xP said:
@hattifattener.bsky.social‬

As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.
Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

Bloody ex-pats!

(With apologies to @Sandpit !)
Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

FFS UK, GROW UP!
You are quite right.

The French would never do this and name major railway stations after famous military victories, or raise a triumphant arch dedicated to remembering them either.
The French name their ships after famous Admirals who beat the British.

The problem was that the most recent one was Pierre André de Suffren who won his battles in the 18th century .

(At this point I will be out-detailed by someone mentioning something 3 weeks or 3 years more recent.)

I guess whichever figure has managed to keep the French navy more-or-less operational deserves a ship named after them. Since the UK doesn't have such a figure I suppose we're stuck with dim royals.

Roger · 12:01PM

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.

I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?

Taz · 12:03PM

Richard_Tyndall said:

Ratters said:
Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

I have to admit I have been quite taken with the new format. Allowing countries such as Scotland and Cape Verde a greater chance of taking part has much enhanced the event both from a footballing and a supporters point of view. Ignoring for a moment the enjoyment of seeing England do well, the highlights of this tournament for me have been the Scottish supporters and the Cape Verde Goalkeeper. I am actually far more invested in this World Cup than I planned or expected to be.

I was delighted for Cape Verde. Having been to Sal and holidayed there it’s a lovely place and lovely people. They deserve it.

I think I’d have been more invested if the games had been on at a more UK friendly time.

tlg86 · 12:05PM

Richard_Tyndall said:

Ratters said:
Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

I have to admit I have been quite taken with the new format. Allowing countries such as Scotland and Cape Verde a greater chance of taking part has much enhanced the event both from a footballing and a supporters point of view. Ignoring for a moment the enjoyment of seeing England do well, the highlights of this tournament for me have been the Scottish supporters and the Cape Verde Goalkeeper. I am actually far more invested in this World Cup than I planned or expected to be.

I think both Scotland and Cape Verde would have qualified for a 32 team world cup.

I do think that there should be more inter-confederation matches in qualifying, though. The double international window that's coming in for September/October would be ideal for a mini world cup the preceding autumn.

Taz · 12:05PM

DougSeal said:
He's cut out for the role of professional disruptor, a complainer in chief. Actually running something, a party let alone a country, not really

Yeah, I’ve been saying the same for a while. I really don’t think he wants any responsibility like that and I can’t see his MPs being happy at continually going on TV and being bombarded with questions about his finances.

Something will give.

Ratters · 12:05PM

kinabalu said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Ratters said:
Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

I have to admit I have been quite taken with the new format. Allowing countries such as Scotland and Cape Verde a greater chance of taking part has much enhanced the event both from a footballing and a supporters point of view. Ignoring for a moment the enjoyment of seeing England do well, the highlights of this tournament for me have been the Scottish supporters and the Cape Verde Goalkeeper. I am actually far more invested in this World Cup than I planned or expected to be.
For all the (justified) talk about corruption and profiteering and (imo unjustified) talk about it being 'bloated' with too many teams and matches the tournament almost always delivers and this one (thus far) really has.

I am happy with it expanding to 64 teams, 16 groups of 4. That's probably the target endstate. Getting India and China in there must be a major objective for FIFA.

Perhaps India and China should consider getting half decent at football first. The bar isn't especially high with 48 teams, especially in Asia as arguably the weakest confederation.

Malmesbury · 12:06PM

MattW said:
FPT:

Casino_Royale said:

Cicero said:

SandyRentool said:

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Scott_xP said:
@hattifattener.bsky.social‬

As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.
Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

Bloody ex-pats!

(With apologies to @Sandpit !)
Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

FFS UK, GROW UP!
You are quite right.

The French would never do this and name major railway stations after famous military victories, or raise a triumphant arch dedicated to remembering them either.
The French name their ships after famous Admirals who beat the British.

The problem was that the most recent one was Pierre André de Suffren who won his battles in the 18th century .

(At this point I will be out-detailed by someone mentioning something 3 weeks or 3 years more recent.)

Or name bridges after defats of their now European allies...

kinabalu · 12:06PM

Theuniondivvie said:

Driver said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
The one thing that really stands out about Lowe is how utterly unapologetic he is about his views.
I've not noticed Farage ever being apologetic about his views, only chopping and changing them to the point of outright contradiction if he thinks it will advantage himself. I guess Lowe may come over as authentically & consistently far right which may attract the people who like that sort of thing. Also he's rich enough not to have to hoor himself for money unlike poor old Nigel, down to his last 5 properties and £5m.

When it comes to the far right it seems like only rich old men can speak for the common people.

Stuartinromford · 12:06PM

Driver said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
The one thing that really stands out about Lowe is how utterly unapologetic he is about his views.

That cuts both ways, though.

For the slice of the population who are hard right-curious, that's advantage Lowe; he's prepared to robustly say the stuff that Farage only insinuates.

The catch is that kind of politics is repulsive to most of the country, including some current Reform voters. Farage knows how to flash a bit of jackbooted ankle, whereas Lowe proudly shows everything right up to the black shorts. (See also the contrast between Jenrick and Yusuf, or Goodwin then and now.

Roger · 12:07PM

OT. Tuchel is definitely a class act. When asked whether he thought Trumps intervention meant his player should also have his card revoked he said 'there seems to be some confusion over the rules. I think we should wait and see'.

Taz · 12:08PM

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Falsely convicted man who spent £500k clearing his name is rejected for compensation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8925nd4e59o

Yet another case. How hard would it be to sort out the compensation problem? How hard to process appeals in a timely manner?

Actually it may be impossible until we have a government prepared to take these decisions away from the court system.

That really does appear to be totally unjust.

Like prisoners wrongly convicted having deductions for board and lodgings taken from their compensation.

Meanwhile getting prosecutions in cases like the Post Office scandal seems as far away as ever.

The judicial system really does protect people of a certain status and fucks the rest of us over.

kinabalu · 12:08PM

Ratters said:

kinabalu said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Ratters said:
Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

I have to admit I have been quite taken with the new format. Allowing countries such as Scotland and Cape Verde a greater chance of taking part has much enhanced the event both from a footballing and a supporters point of view. Ignoring for a moment the enjoyment of seeing England do well, the highlights of this tournament for me have been the Scottish supporters and the Cape Verde Goalkeeper. I am actually far more invested in this World Cup than I planned or expected to be.
For all the (justified) talk about corruption and profiteering and (imo unjustified) talk about it being 'bloated' with too many teams and matches the tournament almost always delivers and this one (thus far) really has.

I am happy with it expanding to 64 teams, 16 groups of 4. That's probably the target endstate. Getting India and China in there must be a major objective for FIFA.
Perhaps India and China should consider getting half decent at football first. The bar isn't especially high with 48 teams, especially in Asia as arguably the weakest confederation.

Likely to happen, I'd have thought, with or without expansion. There'll be some chicken and egg about it, maybe. Get better to get in. Get in to get better.

algarkirk · 12:08PM

Potential interesting question coming up:

Suppose the finding WRT Farage's funding is such that he could have to face a byelection/reelection process in Clacton, what stance would all interested parties take towards it.

1) In a normal world it's a safe Tory seat
2) It has an abnormal history
3) Labour would struggle to decide which is worse: a Farage victory or a Tory one
4) Labour can't win
5) For the Tories it would be a great victory and a catastrophic loss
6) A White Knight/Martin Bell is a possible but is there one and if so who?

So would the other parties actually prefer to leave Farage in place, without reelection, to keep reminding us he is a flawed person rather than take the risk?

A lot rests on that interesting Thought for the Day contributor, Daniel Greenberg, the PCS.

BTW, such a byelection would be even bigger box office for the media than Makerfield.

eek · 12:14PM

algarkirk said:
Potential interesting question coming up:

Suppose the finding WRT Farage's funding is such that he could have to face a byelection/reelection process in Clacton, what stance would all interested parties take towards it.

1) In a normal world it's a safe Tory seat
2) It has an abnormal history
3) Labour would struggle to decide which is worse: a Farage victory or a Tory one
4) Labour can't win
5) For the Tories it would be a great victory and a catastrophic loss
6) A White Knight/Martin Bell is a possible but is there one and if so who?

So would the other parties actually prefer to leave Farage in place, without reelection, to keep reminding us he is a flawed person rather than take the risk?

A lot rests on that interesting Thought for the Day contributor, Daniel Greenberg, the PCS.

BTW, such a byelection would be even bigger box office for the media than Makerfield.

It is in Labour's interest for Reform to be seen as a wasted vote and for the party to be "spent", so I personally would hope for a recall byelection and then watch Tory / Reform / Restore knock 7 bells out of each other.

Stuartinromford · 12:14PM

Taz said:

DougSeal said:
He's cut out for the role of professional disruptor, a complainer in chief. Actually running something, a party let alone a country, not really
Yeah, I’ve been saying the same for a while. I really don’t think he wants any responsibility like that and I can’t see his MPs being happy at continually going on TV and being bombarded with questions about his finances.

Something will give.

Sounds like there's been a bit too much giving to Farage already.

I guess the complication is the way that Reform is structured. Both legally and practically, Reform is Nigel. Their campaign in Havering was Nigel thinks that Andrew Rosindell is great, by the way they have endorsed these (largely invisible) local candidates.

If I were an exasperated Reform MP, I think I'd find a dictionary and look for Re- words that haven't been taken yet.

eek · 12:17PM

Stuartinromford said:

Taz said:

DougSeal said:
He's cut out for the role of professional disruptor, a complainer in chief. Actually running something, a party let alone a country, not really
Yeah, I’ve been saying the same for a while. I really don’t think he wants any responsibility like that and I can’t see his MPs being happy at continually going on TV and being bombarded with questions about his finances.

Something will give.
Sounds like there's been a bit too much giving to Farage already.

I guess the complication is the way that Reform is structured. Both legally and practically, Reform is Nigel. Their campaign in Havering was Nigel thinks that Andrew Rosindell is great, by the way they have endorsed these (largely invisible) local candidates.

If I were an exasperated Reform MP, I think I'd find a dictionary and look for Re- words that haven't been taken yet.

Reboot - because it's supposedly what they want to do and the second half is what they need to do to Nigel given the impossible questions he's given them to answer.

Luckyguy1983 · 12:20PM

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?

The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.

Nigelb · 12:22PM

Malmesbury said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Falsely convicted man who spent £500k clearing his name is rejected for compensation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8925nd4e59o

Yet another case. How hard would it be to sort out the compensation problem? How hard to process appeals in a timely manner?

Actually it may be impossible until we have a government prepared to take these decisions away from the court system.
The reason for that case is a political decisions that compensation is only paid when the convicted party can *prove their innocence*

This guy got a Not Guilty on re-trial.

The reason is that the politicians were scared that they would get cases of "Guilty, but got off on a technicality. Wins the taxpayer lottery" in the papers

It's almost impossible in the majority of such cases to prove that you are innocent "beyond reasonable doubt" - a complete reversal of the trial standard - which is the standard set for compensation.

It's not about "got off on a technicality", but rather the desire not to pay out money at all, I think.

Malmesbury · 12:24PM

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Falsely convicted man who spent £500k clearing his name is rejected for compensation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8925nd4e59o

Yet another case. How hard would it be to sort out the compensation problem? How hard to process appeals in a timely manner?

Actually it may be impossible until we have a government prepared to take these decisions away from the court system.
The reason for that case is a political decisions that compensation is only paid when the convicted party can *prove their innocence*

This guy got a Not Guilty on re-trial.

The reason is that the politicians were scared that they would get cases of "Guilty, but got off on a technicality. Wins the taxpayer lottery" in the papers
It's almost impossible in the majority of such cases to prove that you are innocent "beyond reasonable doubt" - a complete reversal of the trial standard - which is the standard set for compensation.

It's not about "got off on a technicality", but rather the desire not to pay out money at all, I think.

The fear, for the politicians is the headline. Reinforced by the system not wanting to pay out, of course.

Fairliered · 12:24PM

kinabalu said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Ratters said:
Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

I have to admit I have been quite taken with the new format. Allowing countries such as Scotland and Cape Verde a greater chance of taking part has much enhanced the event both from a footballing and a supporters point of view. Ignoring for a moment the enjoyment of seeing England do well, the highlights of this tournament for me have been the Scottish supporters and the Cape Verde Goalkeeper. I am actually far more invested in this World Cup than I planned or expected to be.
For all the (justified) talk about corruption and profiteering and (imo unjustified) talk about it being 'bloated' with too many teams and matches the tournament almost always delivers and this one (thus far) really has.

I am happy with it expanding to 64 teams, 16 groups of 4. That's probably the target endstate. Getting India and China in there must be a major objective for FIFA.

There are 211 countries in FIFA. It could be expanded to a 210 team competition. Scotland would be the one team that didn’t qualify.

Nigelb · 12:25PM

Malmesbury said:

MattW said:
FPT:

Casino_Royale said:

Cicero said:

SandyRentool said:

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Scott_xP said:
@hattifattener.bsky.social‬

As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.
Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

Bloody ex-pats!

(With apologies to @Sandpit !)
Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

FFS UK, GROW UP!
You are quite right.

The French would never do this and name major railway stations after famous military victories, or raise a triumphant arch dedicated to remembering them either.
The French name their ships after famous Admirals who beat the British.

The problem was that the most recent one was Pierre André de Suffren who won his battles in the 18th century .

(At this point I will be out-detailed by someone mentioning something 3 weeks or 3 years more recent.)
Or name bridges after defats of their now European allies...

Pont d'Ozempique ?

eek · 12:25PM

Luckyguy1983 said:

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?
The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.

Oh I don't think any of us would vote for Restore but I think a lot of us love the fact that Restore is eating into Reform's racist vote making it harder for them to win seats.

OldKingCole · 12:25PM

eek said:

algarkirk said:
Potential interesting question coming up:

Suppose the finding WRT Farage's funding is such that he could have to face a byelection/reelection process in Clacton, what stance would all interested parties take towards it.

1) In a normal world it's a safe Tory seat
2) It has an abnormal history
3) Labour would struggle to decide which is worse: a Farage victory or a Tory one
4) Labour can't win
5) For the Tories it would be a great victory and a catastrophic loss
6) A White Knight/Martin Bell is a possible but is there one and if so who?

So would the other parties actually prefer to leave Farage in place, without reelection, to keep reminding us he is a flawed person rather than take the risk?

A lot rests on that interesting Thought for the Day contributor, Daniel Greenberg, the PCS.

BTW, such a byelection would be even bigger box office for the media than Makerfield.
It is in Labour's interest for Reform to be seen as a wasted vote and for the party to be "spent", so I personally would hope for a recall byelection and then watch Tory / Reform / Restore knock 7 bells out of each other.

It’d be great fun to watch, though, wouldn’t it!

Malmesbury · 12:26PM

eek said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?
The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.
Oh I don't think any of us would vote for Restore but I think a lot of us love the fact that Restore is eating into Reform's racist vote making it harder for them to win seats.

Celebrating the worse overtaking the bad is not a good idea.

Do you really want to live in a world where Restore is getting to 10%, say?

Taz · 12:26PM

eek said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?
The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.
Oh I don't think any of us would vote for Restore but I think a lot of us love the fact that Restore is eating into Reform's racist vote making it harder for them to win seats.

Which is the whole point of Restore in a nutshell.

Nigelb · 12:26PM

Luckyguy1983 said:

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?
The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.

I'm not prepared to give tacit approval to either Farage or Lowe.

Taz · 12:30PM

More insanity. This time from the Fabian’s

‘ Buy now, pay later…the Fabian Society have rustled up a proposal to offer first time buyers interest free deposits for the first five years of 20% or 40% if in London, on new builds to “enable” 136,000 make their “first step” on the ladder’

https://x.com/emmafildes/status/2074011311701119031?s=61

StillWaters · 12:31PM

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Falsely convicted man who spent £500k clearing his name is rejected for compensation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8925nd4e59o

Yet another case. How hard would it be to sort out the compensation problem? How hard to process appeals in a timely manner?

Actually it may be impossible until we have a government prepared to take these decisions away from the court system.

Buried deep in the article is the explanation: the burden of proof is on the claimant to prove that they did not commit the crime (it is not sufficient to prove that a court found him not guilty).

Blame Osborne - another of his clever wheezes - as it was “intended to reduce the burden on the taxpayer” according to the MoJ at the time

Taz · 12:32PM

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?
The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.
Oh I don't think any of us would vote for Restore but I think a lot of us love the fact that Restore is eating into Reform's racist vote making it harder for them to win seats.
Celebrating the worse overtaking the bad is not a good idea.

Do you really want to live in a world where Restore is getting to 10%, say?

No. And if it happened I’d have to assume it was because people, or most of the vote, don’t fully understand the Party and its policies.

bondegezou · 12:32PM

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.

Nigel Farage: under investigation by Parliament
Rupert Lowe: under investigation by Parliament

Nigel Farage: parrots the views of an unpleasant American
Rupert Lowe: parrots the views of an unpleasant American

Nigel Farage: is racist, but tries to pretend he isn’t
Rupert Lowe: is racist, but tries slightly less hard to pretend he isn’t

Malmesbury · 12:37PM

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?
The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.
I'm not prepared to give tacit approval to either Farage or Lowe.

I'm not prepared to give any indication of approval to either Farage or Lowe. Or the trail of variants on those two that come with them.

kinabalu · 12:39PM

Fairliered said:

kinabalu said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Ratters said:
Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

I have to admit I have been quite taken with the new format. Allowing countries such as Scotland and Cape Verde a greater chance of taking part has much enhanced the event both from a footballing and a supporters point of view. Ignoring for a moment the enjoyment of seeing England do well, the highlights of this tournament for me have been the Scottish supporters and the Cape Verde Goalkeeper. I am actually far more invested in this World Cup than I planned or expected to be.
For all the (justified) talk about corruption and profiteering and (imo unjustified) talk about it being 'bloated' with too many teams and matches the tournament almost always delivers and this one (thus far) really has.

I am happy with it expanding to 64 teams, 16 groups of 4. That's probably the target endstate. Getting India and China in there must be a major objective for FIFA.
There are 211 countries in FIFA. It could be expanded to a 210 team competition. Scotland would be the one team that didn’t qualify.

Lol. That could, perversely, make a country feel very special.

noneoftheabove · 12:41PM

Taz said:
More insanity. This time from the Fabian’s

‘ Buy now, pay later…the Fabian Society have rustled up a proposal to offer first time buyers interest free deposits for the first five years of 20% or 40% if in London, on new builds to “enable” 136,000 make their “first step” on the ladder’

https://x.com/emmafildes/status/2074011311701119031?s=61

A society run by people with lots of personal housing assets wants to boost the price of housing by loading young people with debt? Sounds like sensible tactics for the board members, not insanity.......

Andy_JS · 12:50PM

This is a weird form of equality isn't it.

"'Most' women in jail in England and Wales shouldn't be there, says prisons minister Lord Timpson"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2026/jul/06/nigel-farage-reform-unregistered-gift-crypto-christopher-harborne-keir-starmer-labour-andy-burnham-uk-politics-live

kinabalu · 12:51PM

eek said:

algarkirk said:
Potential interesting question coming up:

Suppose the finding WRT Farage's funding is such that he could have to face a byelection/reelection process in Clacton, what stance would all interested parties take towards it.

1) In a normal world it's a safe Tory seat
2) It has an abnormal history
3) Labour would struggle to decide which is worse: a Farage victory or a Tory one
4) Labour can't win
5) For the Tories it would be a great victory and a catastrophic loss
6) A White Knight/Martin Bell is a possible but is there one and if so who?

So would the other parties actually prefer to leave Farage in place, without reelection, to keep reminding us he is a flawed person rather than take the risk?

A lot rests on that interesting Thought for the Day contributor, Daniel Greenberg, the PCS.

BTW, such a byelection would be even bigger box office for the media than Makerfield.
It is in Labour's interest for Reform to be seen as a wasted vote and for the party to be "spent", so I personally would hope for a recall byelection and then watch Tory / Reform / Restore knock 7 bells out of each other.

Labour can't engineer such a thing but I'd say their best national vote share scenario (other than Burnham conquers all) is the right wing parties all doing ok to middling. Con 22, Ref 18, Res 10, something like that.

Luckyguy1983 · 12:52PM

...

bondegezou said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
Nigel Farage: under investigation by Parliament
Rupert Lowe: under investigation by Parliament

Nigel Farage: parrots the views of an unpleasant American
Rupert Lowe: parrots the views of an unpleasant American

Nigel Farage: is racist, but tries to pretend he isn’t
Rupert Lowe: is racist, but tries slightly less hard to pretend he isn’t

This is wholly specious. Nigel Farage leads a party where leading figures are non-white and follow different faiths. Rupert Lowe leads one whose supporters send those same figures death threats.

Your drawing of moral equivalence is incredibly shabby and frankly calls into question your entire moralistic oeuvre.

bondegezou · 1:00PM

Ratters said:

kinabalu said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Ratters said:
Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

I have to admit I have been quite taken with the new format. Allowing countries such as Scotland and Cape Verde a greater chance of taking part has much enhanced the event both from a footballing and a supporters point of view. Ignoring for a moment the enjoyment of seeing England do well, the highlights of this tournament for me have been the Scottish supporters and the Cape Verde Goalkeeper. I am actually far more invested in this World Cup than I planned or expected to be.
For all the (justified) talk about corruption and profiteering and (imo unjustified) talk about it being 'bloated' with too many teams and matches the tournament almost always delivers and this one (thus far) really has.

I am happy with it expanding to 64 teams, 16 groups of 4. That's probably the target endstate. Getting India and China in there must be a major objective for FIFA.
Perhaps India and China should consider getting half decent at football first. The bar isn't especially high with 48 teams, especially in Asia as arguably the weakest confederation.

China made the third round of the AFC qualification, but came 5th in their group. (1st and 2nd qualified, 3rd and 4th played off against others for a qualification spot.) So, some way off.

India got a bye to the second round, but came 3rd in their group of 4, equal on points with Afghanistan. So, nowhere near.

Or we could look at rankings. When the AFC qualifiers began, China were rated 80th in the world, two spots above Jordan, who did qualify. India was down at #99. China is now down to #91 and India to #138. China is thus only just below the lowest ranked team in the competition (Haiti, #88). It’s Pakistan that has the most impressively poor ranking (#198) for such a populous country.

Nigelb · 1:08PM

On the further degradation of a once respected Republican governor.

BASH: “You have pics of people cutting a 350 foot gash in the bottom of the reflecting pool?”

BURGUM: “I’m not sure why you and the media keep questioning it.”
https://x.com/TheTNHoller/status/2073779452266324272

No one has been able to produce a single photo of vandals harming the reflecting pool – except this one.
https://x.com/NewtonWombat/status/2073821583953871151?s=20

MattW · 1:09PM

Andy_JS said:
This is a weird form of equality isn't it.

"'Most' women in jail in England and Wales shouldn't be there, says prisons minister Lord Timpson"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2026/jul/06/nigel-farage-reform-unregistered-gift-crypto-christopher-harborne-keir-starmer-labour-andy-burnham-uk-politics-live

It depends why they are in there, and what we think about their particular offences and circumstances, especially around violence or the lack of it.

Nigelb · 1:11PM

"What kind of man would cheat at this ... golf ?"
https://x.com/Kaos_Vs_Control/status/2073834697117909446

bondegezou · 1:14PM

kinabalu said:

Fairliered said:

kinabalu said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Ratters said:
Regarding the previous thread on FIFA and UEFA.

While UEFA will always be in a minority and can be outvoted by other confederations, FIFA needs to remember that it is nothing without UEFA. It's world cup wouldn't be worthy of the name.

We already have 3 of 4 quarter finalists from Europe, and that's with some regular nations like Germany and Italy falling short. There will be at least another 1 and could be as many as 3 more. The European clubs will likely consist of 3 of the 4 favourites of those 8.

Ultimately, it would be sad if we had to return to a joint UEFA and CONMEBOL tournament as a replacement to the the World Cup, but there's a limit on the level of corruption we can put up with.

I have to admit I have been quite taken with the new format. Allowing countries such as Scotland and Cape Verde a greater chance of taking part has much enhanced the event both from a footballing and a supporters point of view. Ignoring for a moment the enjoyment of seeing England do well, the highlights of this tournament for me have been the Scottish supporters and the Cape Verde Goalkeeper. I am actually far more invested in this World Cup than I planned or expected to be.
For all the (justified) talk about corruption and profiteering and (imo unjustified) talk about it being 'bloated' with too many teams and matches the tournament almost always delivers and this one (thus far) really has.

I am happy with it expanding to 64 teams, 16 groups of 4. That's probably the target endstate. Getting India and China in there must be a major objective for FIFA.
There are 211 countries in FIFA. It could be expanded to a 210 team competition. Scotland would be the one team that didn’t qualify.
Lol. That could, perversely, make a country feel very special.

San Marino is currently #211 in the FIFA rankings, and the gap between San Marino and Anguilla in #210 is the largest gap between any two teams in the rankings.

Relevant Tim Traveller video: https://youtu.be/KCYNrPfIzQw

Malmesbury · 1:15PM

Nigelb said:
"What kind of man would cheat at this ... golf ?"
https://x.com/Kaos_Vs_Control/status/2073834697117909446

Golf was invented in the 1450s

Though some say it was invented much earlier, in the Third Age, during the Battle of Greenfields

HYUFD · 1:15PM

Luckyguy1983 said:

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?
The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.

Tommy Robinson has openly backed Restore and said Rupert Lowe 'is the only political figure who can save Britain.'

I suspect some on here, leftwingers and liberals and even a few Tories cheer on Restore only as they split the Reform vote under FPTP

youtube.com/watch?v=ckumTtD9Y1k&vl=en-GB

Nigelb · 1:17PM

HS2 has possibly the most ratioed post of the week.

The last of over 5,000 reinforced concrete segments has been lifted into position for the Chipping Warden 'green tunnel' - marking a major milestone for one of the longest 'cut and cover' tunnels on the project 👇🎥.

Set to stretch for one-and-a-half miles, the tunnel is being built inside a cutting, with the earth put back on top afterwards, helping to blend the high-speed railway into the landscape and cut noise and disturbance for people* living nearby.
https://x.com/HS2ltd/status/2073013973171966271

(*the few hundred Tory constituents)

3.2m views; and about the same number of likes as the total of Chipping Warden residents.

Nigelb · 1:19PM

Sepp Blatter claiming the moral high ground ?

A World Cup turned upside down.

Red cards are not overturned by political phone calls. They are overturned by rules, evidence and independent bodies. If a U.S. President intervenes with the FIFA President — and a player is suddenly cleared before a World Cup knockout match — the question is unavoidable: Quo vadis, FIFA?</I
https://x.com/SeppBlatter/status/2074022159916130658

algarkirk · 1:21PM

Andy_JS said:
This is a weird form of equality isn't it.

"'Most' women in jail in England and Wales shouldn't be there, says prisons minister Lord Timpson"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2026/jul/06/nigel-farage-reform-unregistered-gift-crypto-christopher-harborne-keir-starmer-labour-andy-burnham-uk-politics-live

Partially agree, but about men as well. Far fewer should be in prison, as most criminality has complex roots and drivers needing a therapeutic etc approach; but rather more should be in regimes by which they either never or only with the greatest difficulty will ever be released.

nico67 · 1:23PM

The US coach should not pick Balogun for tonight’s game and issue a statement that he didn’t want any future US success to have an asterisk by it .

Infantino has managed to tarnish what was a good WC and should be removed after the competition ends .

bondegezou · 1:23PM

Luckyguy1983 said:
...
bondegezou said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
Nigel Farage: under investigation by Parliament
Rupert Lowe: under investigation by Parliament

Nigel Farage: parrots the views of an unpleasant American
Rupert Lowe: parrots the views of an unpleasant American

Nigel Farage: is racist, but tries to pretend he isn’t
Rupert Lowe: is racist, but tries slightly less hard to pretend he isn’t
This is wholly specious. Nigel Farage leads a party where leading figures are non-white and follow different faiths. Rupert Lowe leads one whose supporters send those same figures death threats.

Your drawing of moral equivalence is incredibly shabby and frankly calls into question your entire moralistic oeuvre.

I don’t think I was drawing a moral equivalence, Lucky. I agree that Lowe is considerably more unpleasant than Farage, and many in his party far more unpleasant than many in Reform. I agree with you that it is dangerous to hope Restore do well in the hope that they split the Reform vote. However, Farage is clearly still racist, and many of his party are clearly racist. (We were discussing Goodwin the other day.) I don’t think we should be any more accepting of Reform’s racism just because we now have Restore being even worse.

Tres · 1:26PM

nico67 said:
The US coach should not pick Balogun for tonight’s game and issue a statement that he didn’t want any future US success to have an asterisk by it .

Infantino has managed to tarnish what was a good WC and should be removed after the competition ends .

i suspect the us coach does not want to be hounded by the maga goons if he does that

Malmesbury · 1:27PM

Nigelb said:
HS2 has possibly the most ratioed post of the week.

The last of over 5,000 reinforced concrete segments has been lifted into position for the Chipping Warden 'green tunnel' - marking a major milestone for one of the longest 'cut and cover' tunnels on the project 👇🎥.

Set to stretch for one-and-a-half miles, the tunnel is being built inside a cutting, with the earth put back on top afterwards, helping to blend the high-speed railway into the landscape and cut noise and disturbance for people* living nearby.
https://x.com/HS2ltd/status/2073013973171966271

(*the few hundred Tory constituents)

3.2m views; and about the same number of likes as the total of Chipping Warden residents.

There is a sadly hilarious culture war thing happening online - people defending this tunnel and decrying the bat tunnel vs people applauding the bat tunnel and decrying this tunnel.

Personally, I reckon that with the current planning regime we have, putting the entire of HS2 in a tunnel would have been the cheap, quick solution.

LostPassword · 1:28PM

Mix of excellent and awful news for Ukraine overnight.

The largest and fifth largest oil refineries in Russia are now burning, one of those, Omsk, being 2,500km from Ukraine, and the other, Yaroslavl, being one of the refineries near Moscow. Also a mini-refinery in Kaluga was hit. Plus also the oil export terminals near St Petersburg were hit by drones, and a couple of fuel tanker ships trying to deliver fuel to Crimea.

However, none of the 23 ballistic missiles fired by Russia were intercepted, suggesting that Ukraine may have completely run out of Patriot interceptor missiles, and is now entirely defenceless in the face of ballistic missiles. Another apartment building in Kyiv has partially collapsed as a result - not sure what the other targets were this time.

Malmesbury · 1:28PM

Nigelb said:
Sepp Blatter claiming the moral high ground ?

A World Cup turned upside down.

Red cards are not overturned by political phone calls. They are overturned by rules, evidence and independent bodies. If a U.S. President intervenes with the FIFA President — and a player is suddenly cleared before a World Cup knockout match — the question is unavoidable: Quo vadis, FIFA?
https://x.com/SeppBlatter/status/2074022159916130658

The moral high ground in FIFA is 6 inches above the bottom of the Challenger Deep.

nico67 · 1:30PM

Tres said:

nico67 said:
The US coach should not pick Balogun for tonight’s game and issue a statement that he didn’t want any future US success to have an asterisk by it .

Infantino has managed to tarnish what was a good WC and should be removed after the competition ends .
i suspect the us coach does not want to be hounded by the maga goons if he does that

The furore over this won’t be helping the US team . If this was effecting England and we had a player reinstated in this manner I’d support the same action .

Malmesbury · 1:31PM

LostPassword said:
Mix of excellent and awful news for Ukraine overnight.

The largest and fifth largest oil refineries in Russia are now burning, one of those, Omsk, being 2,500km from Ukraine, and the other, Yaroslavl, being one of the refineries near Moscow. Also a mini-refinery in Kaluga was hit. Plus also the oil export terminals near St Petersburg were hit by drones, and a couple of fuel tanker ships trying to deliver fuel to Crimea.

However, none of the 23 ballistic missiles fired by Russia were intercepted, suggesting that Ukraine may have completely run out of Patriot interceptor missiles, and is now entirely defenceless in the face of ballistic missiles. Another apartment building in Kyiv has partially collapsed as a result - not sure what the other targets were this time.

Every single usage of ballistic missiles (including the V2) has shown that for terror bombing civilians, they are rubbish. Their cost/scarcity is only worthwhile when used against targets of military utility.

Jim_the_Lurker · 1:31PM

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?
The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.
Tommy Robinson has openly backed Restore and said Rupert Lowe 'is the only political figure who can save Britain.'

I suspect some on here, leftwingers and liberals and even a few Tories cheer on Restore only as they split the Reform vote under FPTP

youtube.com/watch?v=ckumTtD9Y1k&vl=en-GB

I am not sure that is true. I certainly imagine a few folk think it is quite amusing that what Farage did to the Tories is happening (in a way to him).

I certainly do not think the Restore / Lowe / Tommy Robinson faction is a good thing to have in UK politics. However, racists and racist political parties have been around for a long time. Do I like them no, should they be banned (provided they are not acting criminally or inciting violence) no.

As someone noted in the comments, Farage has always got away with showing a little bit of xenophobic/racist Jackboot to get the far right on board. Restore is reducing his ability to do that. So he’s got to decide does he let the far right voters back Restore or does he get down into the ordure with Lowe. His decision may turn on actually whether he is genuine racist/xenophobe or just a political opportunist.

Nigelb · 1:32PM

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:
HS2 has possibly the most ratioed post of the week.

The last of over 5,000 reinforced concrete segments has been lifted into position for the Chipping Warden 'green tunnel' - marking a major milestone for one of the longest 'cut and cover' tunnels on the project 👇🎥.

Set to stretch for one-and-a-half miles, the tunnel is being built inside a cutting, with the earth put back on top afterwards, helping to blend the high-speed railway into the landscape and cut noise and disturbance for people* living nearby.
https://x.com/HS2ltd/status/2073013973171966271

(*the few hundred Tory constituents)

3.2m views; and about the same number of likes as the total of Chipping Warden residents.
There is a sadly hilarious culture war thing happening online - people defending this tunnel and decrying the bat tunnel vs people applauding the bat tunnel and decrying this tunnel.

Personally, I reckon that with the current planning regime we have, putting the entire of HS2 in a tunnel would have been the cheap, quick solution.

Both are absurd.
Change the planning regime. As it currently stands it's a luxury we can't afford.

HS2; the cost of nuclear power in the UK; our apparently irredeemable housing shortage - all of those things, and more are symptoms of that.

bondegezou · 1:35PM

And this is why Reform and Restore do well:

Facebook take no action on AI-generated far-right ‘influence campaign’ after it was flagged a month ago

Tech giant has taken no action against far-right, AI-generated videos about Britain without any indication they are fake or created thousands of miles away, an investigation by Hebe Campbell reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/facebook-far-right-ai-video-life-in-britain-b3004975.html

Andy_JS · 1:36PM

"Europe’s airport queues are extremely long—and getting longer
The continent’s border-control system is out of control" (£)

https://www.economist.com/europe/2026/07/01/europes-airport-queues-are-extremely-long-and-getting-longer

HYUFD · 1:39PM

Jim_the_Lurker said:

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?
The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.
Tommy Robinson has openly backed Restore and said Rupert Lowe 'is the only political figure who can save Britain.'

I suspect some on here, leftwingers and liberals and even a few Tories cheer on Restore only as they split the Reform vote under FPTP

youtube.com/watch?v=ckumTtD9Y1k&vl=en-GB
I am not sure that is true. I certainly imagine a few folk think it is quite amusing that what Farage did to the Tories is happening (in a way to him).

I certainly do not think the Restore / Lowe / Tommy Robinson faction is a good thing to have in UK politics. However, racists and racist political parties have been around for a long time. Do I like them no, should they be banned (provided they are not acting criminally or inciting violence) no.

As someone noted in the comments, Farage has always got away with showing a little bit of xenophobic/racist Jackboot to get the far right on board. Restore is reducing his ability to do that. So he’s got to decide does he let the far right voters back Restore or does he get down into the ordure with Lowe. His decision may turn on actually whether he is genuine racist/xenophobe or just a political opportunist.

Restore has a significant ex BNP faction, Reform also had a few from that wing but most of them have now gone Restore,

Farage's problem is to win a majority or most seats he needs both those voters and some centrist swing voters which is a near impossible balancing act short of a complete collapse of the Tories to Reform which would be his only other route to No 10

Malmesbury · 1:43PM

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:
HS2 has possibly the most ratioed post of the week.

The last of over 5,000 reinforced concrete segments has been lifted into position for the Chipping Warden 'green tunnel' - marking a major milestone for one of the longest 'cut and cover' tunnels on the project 👇🎥.

Set to stretch for one-and-a-half miles, the tunnel is being built inside a cutting, with the earth put back on top afterwards, helping to blend the high-speed railway into the landscape and cut noise and disturbance for people* living nearby.
https://x.com/HS2ltd/status/2073013973171966271

(*the few hundred Tory constituents)

3.2m views; and about the same number of likes as the total of Chipping Warden residents.
There is a sadly hilarious culture war thing happening online - people defending this tunnel and decrying the bat tunnel vs people applauding the bat tunnel and decrying this tunnel.

Personally, I reckon that with the current planning regime we have, putting the entire of HS2 in a tunnel would have been the cheap, quick solution.
Both are absurd.
Change the planning regime. As it currently stands it's a luxury we can't afford.

HS2; the cost of nuclear power in the UK; our apparently irredeemable housing shortage - all of those things, and more are symptoms of that.

The problem is that it is a system in which every piss ant is given an ant hill to piss from.

The streamlined (and successful) process for offshore wind would be a good example of how things can be improved.

But that would create an enormous back lash from those with vested interests in the Enquiry Industrial Complex.

Nigelb · 1:44PM

The Donald Trump Portfolio Tracker is back on X.
With extra !!

I CALLED IT, ANIMALS, AND YOU LAUGHED!!! Months ago I told you ICE would buy facilities DIRECTLY from the prison companies at north of $150,000 per bed — and I was WRONG, folks, it was BETTER!!! ICE just bought TWO facilities from CoreCivic —
$CXW
— for $1.47 BILLION!!! That's $286,000 per bed in California City, $371,000 PER BED at Otay Mesa, $323,000 a bed COMBINED — DOUBLE what these things cost to build!!! Even I underestimated the beauty, and I NEVER underestimate!!!

AND WHO OWNS
$CXW
??? DONALD TRUMP!!! It's RIGHT THERE in the disclosure, folks — the man holds CoreCivic AND GEO Group, the two companies running America's ICE detention centers!!! Follow the bouncing ball: HE runs the immigration crackdown!!! HIS DHS just wired $1.47 billion to a company HE OWNS SHARES IN, at DOUBLE replacement cost!!! The buyer is his government, the seller is his portfolio, and the taxpayer is the ATM!!! That's not a conflict of interest, that's a CLOSED LOOP!!!

And the STRUCTURE is a masterpiece: DHS buys the buildings, but CoreCivic KEEPS OPERATING them under the same contracts..
https://x.com/TrumpsPortfolio/status/2074105975670239368

Taz · 1:48PM

noneoftheabove said:

Taz said:
More insanity. This time from the Fabian’s

‘ Buy now, pay later…the Fabian Society have rustled up a proposal to offer first time buyers interest free deposits for the first five years of 20% or 40% if in London, on new builds to “enable” 136,000 make their “first step” on the ladder’

https://x.com/emmafildes/status/2074011311701119031?s=61
A society run by people with lots of personal housing assets wants to boost the price of housing by loading young people with debt? Sounds like sensible tactics for the board members, not insanity.......

More like self interest then !

PoodleInASlipstream · 1:54PM

LostPassword said:
Mix of excellent and awful news for Ukraine overnight.

The largest and fifth largest oil refineries in Russia are now burning, one of those, Omsk, being 2,500km from Ukraine, and the other, Yaroslavl, being one of the refineries near Moscow. Also a mini-refinery in Kaluga was hit. Plus also the oil export terminals near St Petersburg were hit by drones, and a couple of fuel tanker ships trying to deliver fuel to Crimea.

However, none of the 23 ballistic missiles fired by Russia were intercepted, suggesting that Ukraine may have completely run out of Patriot interceptor missiles, and is now entirely defenceless in the face of ballistic missiles. Another apartment building in Kyiv has partially collapsed as a result - not sure what the other targets were this time.

Blowing up oil refineries is an extremely effective use of resources, expending a limited stock of expensive and scarce ballistic missiles to blow up blocks of flats isn't. It's painful and scary for the residents of Kyiv, but the effect on Ukraine's war effort is minimal. We know how much ordnance you have to use to use to cause significant damage to the functioning and morale of a large city and it's in the order of thousands of tons of explosives over a short period.

Russia has no way of doing that so they're chucking missiles at apartment buildings and hoping for... something, I'm not sure what. The only way those missiles make any kind of real difference is if Russia puts NBC warheads on them, but Putin knows that's a guaranteed way to get NATO forces involved before the debris has cooled down.

AnneJGP · 2:17PM

Luckyguy1983 said:

Roger said:

AnneJGP said:
Seems to me that people attracted to the Reform territory are now able to compare Mr Farage with Mr Lowe. From that comparison, IMHO, Mr Farage loses.
I believe Mr Lowe wants to deport people on the basis of pantone colour charts.

Doesn't that put you off at least a bit?
The degree to which the PB commentariat (I am not specifically targeting Anne here) is prepared to give house room to Lowe and his party is really quite extraordinary. The Party is considered too racist for Tommy Robinson, who has challenged it over whether it would ever stand a black candidate, yet PBers are quite happy to offer qualified praise and throw around words like 'authentic' and 'unapologetic'. Restore are given this good press because they are considered a threat to Reform. The fact that Reform are not a racist party and that Restore have profound questions to answer on that score doesn't seem to matter. One could say 'Shame' if one were fond of such words.

I don't know that I am 'prepared to give house room to Mr Lowe and his party'. My comparison between how the two people come across has no relation to whether I think their views are laudable or despicable or anywhere in between.

DecrepiterJohnL · 2:22PM

MattW said:

Andy_JS said:
This is a weird form of equality isn't it.

"'Most' women in jail in England and Wales shouldn't be there, says prisons minister Lord Timpson"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2026/jul/06/nigel-farage-reform-unregistered-gift-crypto-christopher-harborne-keir-starmer-labour-andy-burnham-uk-politics-live
It depends why they are in there, and what we think about their particular offences and circumstances, especially around violence or the lack of it.

And also what we think is the purpose of prison. If we have a mechanistic scales of justice view, then anyone who does the crime must do the time. If we think prison is to reform and rehabilitate, then if it fails, there is no point sending anyone there. Then muddy it up with questions of deterrence, and of prevention, and of effect on families, and views of victims and their families, and so on and so forth.

So yes, I can see why people say Group X does not belong in prison but I'm not clever enough to design a better system. What worries me is we seem to be producing a worse one as politicians pander to public outrage.

Jim_Miller · 2:23PM

FWIW, Groundskeeper Willie, most famous for his "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" line, is a Scotsman.

Willie is the groundskeeper and janitor at Springfield Elementary School and lives in a shack on the school premises. He is a Scotsman with an aggressive temper. Willie is an uncouth and unpleasant character, though essentially harmless. His personality is depicted as being incompetent, drunken, slow-witted, and quick to anger for little or no reason. Willie has shown antipathy to both his employer, Principal Skinner, and Bart Simpson, who frequently plays practical jokes on him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundskeeper_Willie

(He isn't a bit like my Scot brother-in-law, or the Scots I met on my brief visit there, years ago.)

BartholomewRoberts · 2:25PM

Malmesbury said:

LostPassword said:
Mix of excellent and awful news for Ukraine overnight.

The largest and fifth largest oil refineries in Russia are now burning, one of those, Omsk, being 2,500km from Ukraine, and the other, Yaroslavl, being one of the refineries near Moscow. Also a mini-refinery in Kaluga was hit. Plus also the oil export terminals near St Petersburg were hit by drones, and a couple of fuel tanker ships trying to deliver fuel to Crimea.

However, none of the 23 ballistic missiles fired by Russia were intercepted, suggesting that Ukraine may have completely run out of Patriot interceptor missiles, and is now entirely defenceless in the face of ballistic missiles. Another apartment building in Kyiv has partially collapsed as a result - not sure what the other targets were this time.
Every single usage of ballistic missiles (including the V2) has shown that for terror bombing civilians, they are rubbish. Their cost/scarcity is only worthwhile when used against targets of military utility.

If I wanted blitz style terror of a city today (and it did not work even then) then I would be doing that with swarms of drones, not ballistic missiles.

LostPassword · 2:26PM

PoodleInASlipstream said:

LostPassword said:
Mix of excellent and awful news for Ukraine overnight.

The largest and fifth largest oil refineries in Russia are now burning, one of those, Omsk, being 2,500km from Ukraine, and the other, Yaroslavl, being one of the refineries near Moscow. Also a mini-refinery in Kaluga was hit. Plus also the oil export terminals near St Petersburg were hit by drones, and a couple of fuel tanker ships trying to deliver fuel to Crimea.

However, none of the 23 ballistic missiles fired by Russia were intercepted, suggesting that Ukraine may have completely run out of Patriot interceptor missiles, and is now entirely defenceless in the face of ballistic missiles. Another apartment building in Kyiv has partially collapsed as a result - not sure what the other targets were this time.
Blowing up oil refineries is an extremely effective use of resources, expending a limited stock of expensive and scarce ballistic missiles to blow up blocks of flats isn't. It's painful and scary for the residents of Kyiv, but the effect on Ukraine's war effort is minimal. We know how much ordnance you have to use to use to cause significant damage to the functioning and morale of a large city and it's in the order of thousands of tons of explosives over a short period.

Russia has no way of doing that so they're chucking missiles at apartment buildings and hoping for... something, I'm not sure what. The only way those missiles make any kind of real difference is if Russia puts NBC warheads on them, but Putin knows that's a guaranteed way to get NATO forces involved before the debris has cooled down.

Some of the missiles may have hit more consequential targets, and while it is true that lobbing ballistic missiles at apartment blocks won't win the war for Russia, that isn't much comfort for the people living in those apartment blocks.

If Trump hadn't used up so many Patriot interceptors in his stupid Iran war many of the Ukrainian civilian deaths could have been avoided.

Nigel Farage is becoming even more unpopular – politicalbetting.com

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