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Reform might be value in Makerfield now – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,176
edited 6:56AM in General
Reform might be value in Makerfield now – politicalbetting.com

Based on the latest Survation poll Andy Burnham led Reform by 10% with Restore on 8%. If Nigel Farage’s party can squeeze Restore to within an inch of their political life and with then this effectively becomes a 50/50 race and given the price of Reform currently I think they are worth a punt.

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Comments

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,630
    One two buckle my shoe
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436
    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,358
    There is apparently a substantial portion of Labour members who want to keep Starmer.

    If some of them live in Makersfield, I wonder how they would vote in this by- election?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,630
    What does SKir want for Makerfield?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,154
    geoffw said:

    One two buckle my shoe

    Three four lay Restore
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,235

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,564
    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,534
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Humiliation for Trump. As expected, Netanyahu ignored his pleas not to attack Iran. Israel struck Iran several times overnight.

    Iranian missiles are now en route to Israel.
  • https://x.com/luketryl/status/2063719758491451806

    Shown Farage's video his comments split the group, some agreed with his general thrust, others felt he had gone far too far. Even for some who were fans of Farage they didn't like the sense that he had gone against Henry Nowak's families wishes to cause division about the case.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,453
    I'd expect Mr Burnham to win. He's very high profile and seems to be well-liked. I don't see why there should be any 'stop him' vote.

    Also I don't see why a new party should sit out a by-election to help another party beat him. By-elections are too scarce and a new party needs the experience. (Haven't noticed whether Your Party is in this campaign.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436
    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    Indeed. But they are ornery folk, voters. Especially those in the Reform/Restore hopper. They don't conform.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,534
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    The Iran-backed militia in Yemen the Houthis say they have banned all Israeli shipping from the Red Sea and any movement will be considered a target.
  • AnneJGP said:

    I'd expect Mr Burnham to win. He's very high profile and seems to be well-liked. I don't see why there should be any 'stop him' vote.

    Also I don't see why a new party should sit out a by-election to help another party beat him. By-elections are too scarce and a new party needs the experience. (Haven't noticed whether Your Party is in this campaign.)

    Yes my sense is that there is no “we must not have him” vote, whereas that seems to be the case for everyone else.

    In a way Burnham is where Starmer was in 2024. But unless Burnham has a plan he’s going to be right back where SKS is now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,883

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    When did a campaign team ever describe a campaign as a done deal?

    It is always "too close to call", and "only X can beat Y here" in order to mobilise voters and team.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,235
    Scott_xP said:

    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Humiliation for Trump. As expected, Netanyahu ignored his pleas not to attack Iran. Israel struck Iran several times overnight.

    Iranian missiles are now en route to Israel.

    It’s all performative. No energy assets were hit just military ones.

    I’ve no,doubt they worked together behind the scenes on it while taking public positions for domestic consumption.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,651
    Dopermean said:

    geoffw said:

    One two buckle my shoe

    Three four lay Restore
    Five, six, Reform are pricks....
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,235

    Dopermean said:

    geoffw said:

    One two buckle my shoe

    Three four lay Restore
    Five, six, Reform are pricks....
    Seven, eight, Burnham is great.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,358
    Foxy said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    When did a campaign team ever describe a campaign as a done deal?

    It is always "too close to call", and "only X can beat Y here" in order to mobilise voters and team.
    "Quietly confident" is one I'm always unsure about.
    I think it can variously mean "we are really worried we are losing" or "it's in the bag - can't believe you asked".
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,627
    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    I wouldn't. NPXMP infamously got it badly wrong in his own constituency in the run up to GE2015.

    He's probably concerned about turnout. Burnham will win because he's the root to getting rid of Starmer.

    And that's as far as most people's thinking will go.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,627
    On topic, yes, Reform probably are value at nearly 7/1 given the polling.

    A good value loser.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,154

    AnneJGP said:

    I'd expect Mr Burnham to win. He's very high profile and seems to be well-liked. I don't see why there should be any 'stop him' vote.

    Also I don't see why a new party should sit out a by-election to help another party beat him. By-elections are too scarce and a new party needs the experience. (Haven't noticed whether Your Party is in this campaign.)

    Yes my sense is that there is no “we must not have him” vote, whereas that seems to be the case for everyone else.

    In a way Burnham is where Starmer was in 2024. But unless Burnham has a plan he’s going to be right back where SKS is now.
    SKS is the industrious box to box midfielder, Burnham is a vain glorious goal hanger. I'm pessimistic about him being an improvement.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436
    Scott_xP said:

    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Humiliation for Trump. As expected, Netanyahu ignored his pleas not to attack Iran. Israel struck Iran several times overnight.

    Iranian missiles are now en route to Israel.

    The Israelis have had their own agenda all long. Trump is discovering what decades/centuries long emnities involve. Each side wants to have the last word. Or in this case, missile.

    CIA assessments are that Iran will be back up to full drone inventories in 6 months. With the rate they have used their kit, the US will take nearer to 6 years.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,485
    rkrkrk said:

    There is apparently a substantial portion of Labour members who want to keep Starmer.

    If some of them live in Makersfield, I wonder how they would vote in this by- election?

    I don't want Starmer to stay.

    I don't want Burnham to replace him.

    If I lived in Makerfield I would spoil my ballot.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,154

    On topic, yes, Reform probably are value at nearly 7/1 given the polling.

    A good value loser.

    Might be a trading bet if the market has 2nd thoughts or might continue to drift like the Green leadership market.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,889
    Dopermean said:

    AnneJGP said:

    I'd expect Mr Burnham to win. He's very high profile and seems to be well-liked. I don't see why there should be any 'stop him' vote.

    Also I don't see why a new party should sit out a by-election to help another party beat him. By-elections are too scarce and a new party needs the experience. (Haven't noticed whether Your Party is in this campaign.)

    Yes my sense is that there is no “we must not have him” vote, whereas that seems to be the case for everyone else.

    In a way Burnham is where Starmer was in 2024. But unless Burnham has a plan he’s going to be right back where SKS is now.
    SKS is the industrious box to box midfielder, Burnham is a vain glorious goal hanger. I'm pessimistic about him being an improvement.
    The question is whether roughly the same policies (in most cases, there's not much of a realistic alternative) presented with more oomph and without half the electorate hating you before you start on general principle is enough to improve things.

    Can't say I'm convinced, but it's too late to ask that question now.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,534

    Scott_xP said:

    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Humiliation for Trump. As expected, Netanyahu ignored his pleas not to attack Iran. Israel struck Iran several times overnight.

    Iranian missiles are now en route to Israel.

    The Israelis have had their own agenda all long. Trump is discovering what decades/centuries long emnities involve. Each side wants to have the last word. Or in this case, missile.

    CIA assessments are that Iran will be back up to full drone inventories in 6 months. With the rate they have used their kit, the US will take nearer to 6 years.
    @ariehkovler.com‬

    In the first hours of the US-Israeli strike on Iran in March, the USAF strategic bombers buried most of Iran's long-range missiles in their underground bases. Iran has now dug up most of these missiles and launchers. They are more capable of sustained fire than they were in March/April.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mnr3ftotc22y
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,045

    rkrkrk said:

    There is apparently a substantial portion of Labour members who want to keep Starmer.

    If some of them live in Makersfield, I wonder how they would vote in this by- election?

    I don't want Starmer to stay.

    I don't want Burnham to replace him.

    If I lived in Makerfield I would spoil my ballot.
    ...which would allow Starmer to stay.

    I hesitate to say it but the best way to achieve your twin aims would be to vote Reform, because if Burnham loses I still think Starmer is toast... it's just that Rayner will be taking over.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,282
    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?
  • Dopermean said:

    AnneJGP said:

    I'd expect Mr Burnham to win. He's very high profile and seems to be well-liked. I don't see why there should be any 'stop him' vote.

    Also I don't see why a new party should sit out a by-election to help another party beat him. By-elections are too scarce and a new party needs the experience. (Haven't noticed whether Your Party is in this campaign.)

    Yes my sense is that there is no “we must not have him” vote, whereas that seems to be the case for everyone else.

    In a way Burnham is where Starmer was in 2024. But unless Burnham has a plan he’s going to be right back where SKS is now.
    SKS is the industrious box to box midfielder, Burnham is a vain glorious goal hanger. I'm pessimistic about him being an improvement.
    I’m extremely cynical that he has a plan of what to do. But I really want Sir Keir gone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,714
    Taz said:

    Dopermean said:

    geoffw said:

    One two buckle my shoe

    Three four lay Restore
    Five, six, Reform are pricks....
    Seven, eight, Burnham is great.
    Nine, ten... since when ?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,440

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    But weigh in the scales also Peter Kellner's updated useful analysis, especially before betting the farm on Reform:


    https://kellnerp.substack.com/p/makerfield-update-burnhams-chances?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2975369&post_id=201032580&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=1mnpci&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email



  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,714
    .
    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    When did a campaign team ever describe a campaign as a done deal?

    It is always "too close to call", and "only X can beat Y here" in order to mobilise voters and team.
    "Quietly confident" is one I'm always unsure about.
    I think it can variously mean "we are really worried we are losing" or "it's in the bag - can't believe you asked".
    "Polling is brisk."
    It's just a placeholder until there's something meaningful to say.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,014
    Also, the polling could just be wrong. There’s a big margin of error from a small sample size, and there are potentially systematic errors from the sampling.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436

    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.

    When Reform lose, the autopsy will be down to a shite candidate.

    He inspires GOTV - for his opponents.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,014

    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.

    When Reform lose, the autopsy will be down to a shite candidate.

    He inspires GOTV - for his opponents.
    Reform seem to have a lot of problem with shite candidates.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,534
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Ukrainian drones have once again hit the oil depot at Novorossiysk, Krasnodar.

    #explodey
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,349
    Reform? The Novak murder will come to be seen as the pivot point where Farage blew it. Even *Rupert Lowe* appears to have the tone right and he's practically leading a fascist movement.

    With the coming crowning of Burnham we are about to see another huge shift in the political sands.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,453

    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.

    When Reform lose, the autopsy will be down to a shite candidate.

    He inspires GOTV - for his opponents.
    IIRC, in the days when Labour was interested in ordinary working people, the Trade Unions had a wonderful education & development infrastructure that not only taught people how to argue & negotiate for workers' rights, but developed their political awareness. Don't know if that still exists, but certainly Reform isn't able to tap into it if it does.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,349

    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    I wouldn't. NPXMP infamously got it badly wrong in his own constituency in the run up to GE2015.

    He's probably concerned about turnout. Burnham will win because he's the root to getting rid of Starmer.

    And that's as far as most people's thinking will go.
    I said Burnham would walk it as far back as 22nd May. And he will. The mood of the country is get rid of Starmer and bring about some actual change. If you are in Makerfield you can directly make both things happen by voting Burnham. WIth respect to the the plastic plumber, what good would another Reform moron in Parliament actually do? No power to do shit. Whereas if you vote for the plastic scouser, everything can change.

    This was always the Burnham pitch. There is no Labour candidate in this by-election. Just Burnham.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,065
    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    It depends whether Nick has seen the Labour Party full canvass returns or is basing his impressions on the people he actually canvassed - probably less than 100 face to face so a small sample in a specific area.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,282
    edited 8:14AM

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,045
    edited 8:14AM
    Cyclefree said:

    I realise that living in West Cumbria a mile from the ocean we have to road test the winds and storms for the rest of you. So really you should be thanking us. And generally I don't mind rain as it's good for the garden. And I have never seen as many beautiful rainbows as I have here. Plus I treated myself this year to a bright blue and white striped long anorak with hood which makes me look like an Enid Blyton character as I potter round the garden deadheading and so on. But I have planted figs and lemons and the garden is south facing so a bit of sun in summer is not too much to ask, now is it? Also last year was glorious and sitting in the sun did take a bit of the sting out of being told ever worsening health news.

    So this summer it would be nice to enjoy the fruits of all the hard work from last year and the first few months of this. Though it has to be said everything I've planted is romping away. So the plants are happy anyway.


    PS Can't say I much care for Burnham but really do not want Reform to win. Ghastly mob. I can understand why people feel fed up with the main parties. The former mayor of Barrow, a Tory, recently won a local by-election in a formerly strong Tory ward as a Reform candidate. She was well known but it has I understand put the hereby jeebies up the Tories and Labour.

    But Reform are absolutely not the answer.

    The long range forecast for the second half of June / early July is more encouraging, so I hope you get some warm sunshine in Cumbria.

    All the recent rain (another 14mm in the past two hours here in Dorset) has had meant that Mrs P. hasn't had to water our new trees for the past two weeks. We put 17 quite large trees into our new garden last autumn and all appear have survived the winter well. (We probably should have put in whips but at our age we don't really want to wait 20 years for them to mature.)
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,226
    On the other hand, as Kenyon's cv becomes better known, it's not going to help the Makerfield Misogynist.

    From the New Statesman today on the Survation polling (paywall):

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/polling/2026/06/could-misogyny-decide-makerfield

    Andy Burnham’s lead among Makerfield’s women is emphatic, while among men he’s neck and neck with Reform’s Robert Kenyon. But here’s the kicker: voter uncertainty is lower among women than it is among men in the poll. That’s not normal. Typically women tend to be more uncertain about their preferences in opinion polls. In voting intention surveys the world over women are more likely to answer “don’t know”. So what could be behind it?

    For Reform candidate Robert Kenyon’s comments on abortion to feature so highly in a by-election campaign is unusual in mainland Britain. “Abortion is the cowardly act of murdering a defenceless baby” reads one X post. And “don’t dole out the ‘what if someone is raped by their brother’ argument” reads another, in response to someone else. These aren’t sentiments often wheeled out by a candidate at election time. It’s a fringe view, even among voters on the right. Similarly, Kenyon’s comments about Carol Vorderman have been much publicised, with Kenyon refusing to apologise for them in an appearance on Question Time on Thursday (5 June).
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,349
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    The question is who do you think has the chance to actually change things for you? Directly elect the PM on a platform of change with a track record of doing stuff? Or a moron who wants to ban all knives?

    What actual good would electing Kenyon actually do now? Its a by-election so they get a Free Hit. The objective? Get rid of Starmer and change direction. Burnham will do both. And if he fails, then oust him in favour of a Reform government in 2029.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,045

    On the other hand, as Kenyon's cv becomes better known, it's not going to help the Makerfield Misogynist.

    From the New Statesman today on the Survation polling (paywall):

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/polling/2026/06/could-misogyny-decide-makerfield

    Andy Burnham’s lead among Makerfield’s women is emphatic, while among men he’s neck and neck with Reform’s Robert Kenyon. But here’s the kicker: voter uncertainty is lower among women than it is among men in the poll. That’s not normal. Typically women tend to be more uncertain about their preferences in opinion polls. In voting intention surveys the world over women are more likely to answer “don’t know”. So what could be behind it?

    For Reform candidate Robert Kenyon’s comments on abortion to feature so highly in a by-election campaign is unusual in mainland Britain. “Abortion is the cowardly act of murdering a defenceless baby” reads one X post. And “don’t dole out the ‘what if someone is raped by their brother’ argument” reads another, in response to someone else. These aren’t sentiments often wheeled out by a candidate at election time. It’s a fringe view, even among voters on the right. Similarly, Kenyon’s comments about Carol Vorderman have been much publicised, with Kenyon refusing to apologise for them in an appearance on Question Time on Thursday (5 June).

    Kenyon's cv ought to have a big impact... but unfortunately not many Makerfield voters are going to be reading the New Statesman and none of those readers were ever likely to be voting Reform anyway.

    (Just thought - shouldn't be the New Statesperson these days? ;-) )
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,701
    edited 8:22AM

    On the other hand, as Kenyon's cv becomes better known, it's not going to help the Makerfield Misogynist.

    From the New Statesman today on the Survation polling (paywall):

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/polling/2026/06/could-misogyny-decide-makerfield

    Andy Burnham’s lead among Makerfield’s women is emphatic, while among men he’s neck and neck with Reform’s Robert Kenyon. But here’s the kicker: voter uncertainty is lower among women than it is among men in the poll. That’s not normal. Typically women tend to be more uncertain about their preferences in opinion polls. In voting intention surveys the world over women are more likely to answer “don’t know”. So what could be behind it?

    For Reform candidate Robert Kenyon’s comments on abortion to feature so highly in a by-election campaign is unusual in mainland Britain. “Abortion is the cowardly act of murdering a defenceless baby” reads one X post. And “don’t dole out the ‘what if someone is raped by their brother’ argument” reads another, in response to someone else. These aren’t sentiments often wheeled out by a candidate at election time. It’s a fringe view, even among voters on the right. Similarly, Kenyon’s comments about Carol Vorderman have been much publicised, with Kenyon refusing to apologise for them in an appearance on Question Time on Thursday (5 June).

    The latest YouGov has Reform 13 points ahead among men and 1 point ahead among women. Both the Conservatives and LDs poll much better with women than men but Labour are slightly better with men and the Greens poll the same with men and women.
  • Big_IanBig_Ian Posts: 93
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    They gain themselves the power to decapitate the PM at the next General Election, if he turns out to be shit.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,444
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    Morning All!

    I suppose the un-answered question is "what's in it for the constituents of any PM?" Chap (or chap-ess) surely has very little time for the constituency matters which take up most of a back-bench MP's time, and although I realise 'there's someone in the office to deal with those' is it quite the same?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,701

    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    I wouldn't. NPXMP infamously got it badly wrong in his own constituency in the run up to GE2015.

    He's probably concerned about turnout. Burnham will win because he's the root to getting rid of Starmer.

    And that's as far as most people's thinking will go.
    Here's the thing - what do Conservatives actually want from this by-election?

    IF Burnham wins, it's likely Starmer will soon be gone and there'll be a new PM in town and life may get tougher for Badenoch in the Commons, OTOH, Reform will be badly dented and that will increase the chances of the Conservatives moving back into a clear second and re-establishing themselves as the alternative "Right wing" option to Labour.

    However, let's say Reform wins - Starmer stays, weakened and humiliated BUT Reform will be buoyant and look more like a Government in waiting with the Conservatives becoming less and less relevant.

    Interesting times?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,235

    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.

    When Reform lose, the autopsy will be down to a shite candidate.

    He inspires GOTV - for his opponents.
    Reform seem to have a lot of problem with shite candidates.
    As does the Greens. Both their candidates for Makerfield were inept as was their local election candidates (again, same for Reform)

    The insurgent parties need to professionalise its candidate selection and vetting ASAP
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,226
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    There is a massive amount in it for the people of the Makerfield constituency. A genuinely local PM elected in a what is now a marginal seat and facing reelection within 3 years will not only recognise the need to deliver for his constituents but will also be in a far more powerful position than anyone else in Britain to deliver his priorities. All that on top of the genuine prospect of changing direction nationally with Starmer gone.

    Or that prospect could be just frittered away in a meaningless protest vote that will mean more of the same from Starmer.

    No-one is being bussed in, are you not aware of election expense rules? What I saw was massive enthusiasm for Burnham causing people to travel miles under their own steam. An overflowing car park at the campaign centre spilling over into local streets.

    Any more questions?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,701
    Taz said:

    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.

    When Reform lose, the autopsy will be down to a shite candidate.

    He inspires GOTV - for his opponents.
    Reform seem to have a lot of problem with shite candidates.
    As does the Greens. Both their candidates for Makerfield were inept as was their local election candidates (again, same for Reform)

    The insurgent parties need to professionalise its candidate selection and vetting ASAP
    That's the problem though with being "insurgent" - you attract people who, apart from believing (supposedly) in your core values, have no political experience at all.

    I was politically active when the SDP came into being - two thirds of the new SDP members had never been in any political party at all. Inevitably, it was left to the ex-Labour and ex-Conservative members to show them what to do and how it worked. The came the Alliance and the Liberals worked with the SDP.

    This was all before the days of social media of course.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,437

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    Morning All!

    I suppose the un-answered question is "what's in it for the constituents of any PM?" Chap (or chap-ess) surely has very little time for the constituency matters which take up most of a back-bench MP's time, and although I realise 'there's someone in the office to deal with those' is it quite the same?
    How many voters vote on the basis of what the MP will do for them and the constituency, though? I think in my life I have had just one interaction with my local MP, which is when I wrote to them to get a ticket to do the tour up the houses of parliament clock tower. I have no idea whether my MP at the moment does a good job on sorting out constituent issues or a terrible one.

    It's also quite possible that Burnham would do a better job here (making sure there's a good staff in place so it doesn't cause political blowups, plus the PM's constituency office sending a "what's going on here?" query probably gets more attention than a random MP doing it) compared to a Reform MP who might not have a party with a depth of experience supporting them or the connections to do this bit of the job well.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,226

    On the other hand, as Kenyon's cv becomes better known, it's not going to help the Makerfield Misogynist.

    From the New Statesman today on the Survation polling (paywall):

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/polling/2026/06/could-misogyny-decide-makerfield

    Andy Burnham’s lead among Makerfield’s women is emphatic, while among men he’s neck and neck with Reform’s Robert Kenyon. But here’s the kicker: voter uncertainty is lower among women than it is among men in the poll. That’s not normal. Typically women tend to be more uncertain about their preferences in opinion polls. In voting intention surveys the world over women are more likely to answer “don’t know”. So what could be behind it?

    For Reform candidate Robert Kenyon’s comments on abortion to feature so highly in a by-election campaign is unusual in mainland Britain. “Abortion is the cowardly act of murdering a defenceless baby” reads one X post. And “don’t dole out the ‘what if someone is raped by their brother’ argument” reads another, in response to someone else. These aren’t sentiments often wheeled out by a candidate at election time. It’s a fringe view, even among voters on the right. Similarly, Kenyon’s comments about Carol Vorderman have been much publicised, with Kenyon refusing to apologise for them in an appearance on Question Time on Thursday (5 June).

    Kenyon's cv ought to have a big impact... but unfortunately not many Makerfield voters are going to be reading the New Statesman and none of those readers were ever likely to be voting Reform anyway.

    (Just thought - shouldn't be the New Statesperson these days? ;-) )
    You have totally missed the point. Reporting of Kenyon's misogyny has become widespread in the last week. The NS was just commenting on that.

    e.g.
    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/reforms-robert-kenyon-says-i-34069336

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/makerfield-reform-candidate-robert-kenyon-34013441
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,453

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    The question is who do you think has the chance to actually change things for you? Directly elect the PM on a platform of change with a track record of doing stuff? Or a moron who wants to ban all knives?

    What actual good would electing Kenyon actually do now? Its a by-election so they get a Free Hit. The objective? Get rid of Starmer and change direction. Burnham will do both. And if he fails, then oust him in favour of a Reform government in 2029.
    LOL, even if Mr Burnham fails, in 2029 there'll be another argument why Reform shouldn't be elected.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,526
    Taz said:

    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.

    When Reform lose, the autopsy will be down to a shite candidate.

    He inspires GOTV - for his opponents.
    Reform seem to have a lot of problem with shite candidates.
    As does the Greens. Both their candidates for Makerfield were inept as was their local election candidates (again, same for Reform)

    The insurgent parties need to professionalise its candidate selection and vetting ASAP
    Professionalising candidate selection is similar to formulating coherent policies in that it requires hard work and attention to detail.

    Whereas Reform and Greens prefer self-righteous protest and posturing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,949
    The problem for Reform is even if they squeezed the Restore and Tory votes, on the latest Survation poll they still wouldn't beat Burnham and Labour. The Restore vote is also pretty resilient and hard to squeeze, they are voters who believe even Farage is too wishy washy on immigration and want to send a message of support for Lowe's mass deportations policy and they also aren't happy with too many non white figures at the top of Reform like Braverman and the Muslim Yusuf
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,706

    rkrkrk said:

    There is apparently a substantial portion of Labour members who want to keep Starmer.

    If some of them live in Makersfield, I wonder how they would vote in this by- election?

    I don't want Starmer to stay.

    I don't want Burnham to replace him.

    If I lived in Makerfield I would spoil my ballot.
    Is that not grounds for expulsion?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,491
    Taz said:

    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.

    When Reform lose, the autopsy will be down to a shite candidate.

    He inspires GOTV - for his opponents.
    Reform seem to have a lot of problem with shite candidates.
    As does the Greens. Both their candidates for Makerfield were inept as was their local election candidates (again, same for Reform)

    The insurgent parties need to professionalise its candidate selection and vetting ASAP
    They are not serious parties and so they will always struggle to attract serious candidates. Sure, you can fork out cash to weed put the utter loons and dross, but the risk then is that then you have no candidates left.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,209
    edited 9:00AM
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    Every party "buses" activists in to help with by-elections and have done since time began. Are you new to this politics lark?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,714
    AnneJGP said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    The question is who do you think has the chance to actually change things for you? Directly elect the PM on a platform of change with a track record of doing stuff? Or a moron who wants to ban all knives?

    What actual good would electing Kenyon actually do now? Its a by-election so they get a Free Hit. The objective? Get rid of Starmer and change direction. Burnham will do both. And if he fails, then oust him in favour of a Reform government in 2029.
    LOL, even if Mr Burnham fails, in 2029 there'll be another argument why Reform shouldn't be elected.
    One that is unlikely to convince Battlebus, by the sound of it.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,282

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    There is a massive amount in it for the people of the Makerfield constituency. A genuinely local PM elected in a what is now a marginal seat and facing reelection within 3 years will not only recognise the need to deliver for his constituents but will also be in a far more powerful position than anyone else in Britain to deliver his priorities. All that on top of the genuine prospect of changing direction nationally with Starmer gone.

    Or that prospect could be just frittered away in a meaningless protest vote that will mean more of the same from Starmer.

    No-one is being bussed in, are you not aware of election expense rules? What I saw was massive enthusiasm for Burnham causing people to travel miles under their own steam. An overflowing car park at the campaign centre spilling over into local streets.

    Any more questions?
    No but appreciate the heads up on the campaign. My (betting) position is he'll win but not by the margins being wished for.

    My personal position is that he'll be shit as a PM and there will be crisis after crisis on the economic front. Being a messiah doesn't change the economics of being in hawk to the banks at high interest rates.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,949
    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    I wouldn't. NPXMP infamously got it badly wrong in his own constituency in the run up to GE2015.

    He's probably concerned about turnout. Burnham will win because he's the root to getting rid of Starmer.

    And that's as far as most people's thinking will go.
    Here's the thing - what do Conservatives actually want from this by-election?

    IF Burnham wins, it's likely Starmer will soon be gone and there'll be a new PM in town and life may get tougher for Badenoch in the Commons, OTOH, Reform will be badly dented and that will increase the chances of the Conservatives moving back into a clear second and re-establishing themselves as the alternative "Right wing" option to Labour.

    However, let's say Reform wins - Starmer stays, weakened and humiliated BUT Reform will be buoyant and look more like a Government in waiting with the Conservatives becoming less and less relevant.

    Interesting times?
    Burnham as PM pushing a tax and spend agenda also makes it easier for Kemi to push clearer economic blue water with Labour and there will be less culture wars against him than Reform have been able to push against Starmer
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,266

    On the other hand, as Kenyon's cv becomes better known, it's not going to help the Makerfield Misogynist.

    From the New Statesman today on the Survation polling (paywall):

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/polling/2026/06/could-misogyny-decide-makerfield

    Andy Burnham’s lead among Makerfield’s women is emphatic, while among men he’s neck and neck with Reform’s Robert Kenyon. But here’s the kicker: voter uncertainty is lower among women than it is among men in the poll. That’s not normal. Typically women tend to be more uncertain about their preferences in opinion polls. In voting intention surveys the world over women are more likely to answer “don’t know”. So what could be behind it?

    For Reform candidate Robert Kenyon’s comments on abortion to feature so highly in a by-election campaign is unusual in mainland Britain. “Abortion is the cowardly act of murdering a defenceless baby” reads one X post. And “don’t dole out the ‘what if someone is raped by their brother’ argument” reads another, in response to someone else. These aren’t sentiments often wheeled out by a candidate at election time. It’s a fringe view, even among voters on the right. Similarly, Kenyon’s comments about Carol Vorderman have been much publicised, with Kenyon refusing to apologise for them in an appearance on Question Time on Thursday (5 June).

    Kenyon's cv ought to have a big impact... but unfortunately not many Makerfield voters are going to be reading the New Statesman and none of those readers were ever likely to be voting Reform anyway.

    (Just thought - shouldn't be the New Statesperson these days? ;-) )
    You have totally missed the point. Reporting of Kenyon's misogyny has become widespread in the last week. The NS was just commenting on that.

    e.g.
    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/reforms-robert-kenyon-says-i-34069336

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/makerfield-reform-candidate-robert-kenyon-34013441
    That will clearly energise the misogynist voters. And those who think you ought to be able to say that sort of thing without censure. How many of them are there?

    I'm 60.40 years ago people routinely said things about women (and black people) that are now considered out of order. Indeed, I may have said some of them. Now I certainly wouldn't. However, how many people have changed their views?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,461
    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    I wouldn't. NPXMP infamously got it badly wrong in his own constituency in the run up to GE2015.

    He's probably concerned about turnout. Burnham will win because he's the root to getting rid of Starmer.

    And that's as far as most people's thinking will go.
    Here's the thing - what do Conservatives actually want from this by-election?

    IF Burnham wins, it's likely Starmer will soon be gone and there'll be a new PM in town and life may get tougher for Badenoch in the Commons, OTOH, Reform will be badly dented and that will increase the chances of the Conservatives moving back into a clear second and re-establishing themselves as the alternative "Right wing" option to Labour.

    However, let's say Reform wins - Starmer stays, weakened and humiliated BUT Reform will be buoyant and look more like a Government in waiting with the Conservatives becoming less and less relevant.

    Interesting times?
    Burnham just squeaks over the line by a few hundred votes but by less than the Restore vote
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,461

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    There is a massive amount in it for the people of the Makerfield constituency. A genuinely local PM elected in a what is now a marginal seat and facing reelection within 3 years will not only recognise the need to deliver for his constituents but will also be in a far more powerful position than anyone else in Britain to deliver his priorities. All that on top of the genuine prospect of changing direction nationally with Starmer gone.

    Or that prospect could be just frittered away in a meaningless protest vote that will mean more of the same from Starmer.

    No-one is being bussed in, are you not aware of election expense rules? What I saw was massive enthusiasm for Burnham causing people to travel miles under their own steam. An overflowing car park at the campaign centre spilling over into local streets.

    Any more questions?
    Ever heard of public transport?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,714
    The Trump interview was quite something; an unhinged rant.
    How anyone can think this man is a suitable leader, let alone president, is utterly beyond me.

    Trump crashes out and cuts his interview with Welker short as she presses him on his lack of evidence for claiming elections are rigged

    "You're either crooked or you're stupid. Let's call it quits. Because I've had enough. Thank you darling," he tells her."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2063633879613805030
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,349
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    I wouldn't. NPXMP infamously got it badly wrong in his own constituency in the run up to GE2015.

    He's probably concerned about turnout. Burnham will win because he's the root to getting rid of Starmer.

    And that's as far as most people's thinking will go.
    Here's the thing - what do Conservatives actually want from this by-election?

    IF Burnham wins, it's likely Starmer will soon be gone and there'll be a new PM in town and life may get tougher for Badenoch in the Commons, OTOH, Reform will be badly dented and that will increase the chances of the Conservatives moving back into a clear second and re-establishing themselves as the alternative "Right wing" option to Labour.

    However, let's say Reform wins - Starmer stays, weakened and humiliated BUT Reform will be buoyant and look more like a Government in waiting with the Conservatives becoming less and less relevant.

    Interesting times?
    Burnham as PM pushing a tax and spend agenda also makes it easier for Kemi to push clearer economic blue water with Labour and there will be less culture wars against him than Reform have been able to push against Starmer
    Yes, its very clearly in the Tories interests that Burnham accelerates the decline of Reform.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,225

    Cyclefree said:

    I realise that living in West Cumbria a mile from the ocean we have to road test the winds and storms for the rest of you. So really you should be thanking us. And generally I don't mind rain as it's good for the garden. And I have never seen as many beautiful rainbows as I have here. Plus I treated myself this year to a bright blue and white striped long anorak with hood which makes me look like an Enid Blyton character as I potter round the garden deadheading and so on. But I have planted figs and lemons and the garden is south facing so a bit of sun in summer is not too much to ask, now is it? Also last year was glorious and sitting in the sun did take a bit of the sting out of being told ever worsening health news.

    So this summer it would be nice to enjoy the fruits of all the hard work from last year and the first few months of this. Though it has to be said everything I've planted is romping away. So the plants are happy anyway.


    PS Can't say I much care for Burnham but really do not want Reform to win. Ghastly mob. I can understand why people feel fed up with the main parties. The former mayor of Barrow, a Tory, recently won a local by-election in a formerly strong Tory ward as a Reform candidate. She was well known but it has I understand put the hereby jeebies up the Tories and Labour.

    But Reform are absolutely not the answer.

    The long range forecast for the second half of June / early July is more encouraging, so I hope you get some warm sunshine in Cumbria.

    All the recent rain (another 14mm in the past two hours here in Dorset) has had meant that Mrs P. hasn't had to water our new trees for the past two weeks. We put 17 quite large trees into our new garden last autumn and all appear have survived the winter well. (We probably should have put in whips but at our age we don't really want to wait 20 years for them to mature.)
    The rain came just in time for my beans at the allotment (the bore hole was 'dry' i.e. turned off by Wessex water, so no watering...)
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,266

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    There is a massive amount in it for the people of the Makerfield constituency. A genuinely local PM elected in a what is now a marginal seat and facing reelection within 3 years will not only recognise the need to deliver for his constituents but will also be in a far more powerful position than anyone else in Britain to deliver his priorities. All that on top of the genuine prospect of changing direction nationally with Starmer gone.

    Or that prospect could be just frittered away in a meaningless protest vote that will mean more of the same from Starmer.

    No-one is being bussed in, are you not aware of election expense rules? What I saw was massive enthusiasm for Burnham causing people to travel miles under their own steam. An overflowing car park at the campaign centre spilling over into local streets.

    Any more questions?
    Ever heard of public transport?
    I have always wondered how this works. Take these scenarios:

    Party buses people in, pays for food (and lodging?). Election expense.

    The same number of people campaign at their own expense. Not an election expense.

    However, exactly the same money has been spent, just in the second case it is in penny packets and provided in kind.

    Why does one count against the constituency election expenses, and the other doesn't? The measure is how much is being spent in the constituency, not as far as I know the size of donation.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,266

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    There is a massive amount in it for the people of the Makerfield constituency. A genuinely local PM elected in a what is now a marginal seat and facing reelection within 3 years will not only recognise the need to deliver for his constituents but will also be in a far more powerful position than anyone else in Britain to deliver his priorities. All that on top of the genuine prospect of changing direction nationally with Starmer gone.

    Or that prospect could be just frittered away in a meaningless protest vote that will mean more of the same from Starmer.

    No-one is being bussed in, are you not aware of election expense rules? What I saw was massive enthusiasm for Burnham causing people to travel miles under their own steam. An overflowing car park at the campaign centre spilling over into local streets.

    Any more questions?
    Ever heard of public transport?
    I have always wondered how this works. Take these scenarios:

    Party buses people in, pays for food (and lodging?). Election expense.

    The same number of people campaign at their own expense. Not an election expense.

    However, exactly the same money has been spent, just in the second case it is in penny packets and provided in kind.

    Why does one count against the constituency election expenses, and the other doesn't? The measure is how much is being spent in the constituency, not as far as I know the size of donation.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,612
    It would be interesting to get more details on where Nick did his canvassing. My contacts tell me there are differing impressions.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,349

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    There is a massive amount in it for the people of the Makerfield constituency. A genuinely local PM elected in a what is now a marginal seat and facing reelection within 3 years will not only recognise the need to deliver for his constituents but will also be in a far more powerful position than anyone else in Britain to deliver his priorities. All that on top of the genuine prospect of changing direction nationally with Starmer gone.

    Or that prospect could be just frittered away in a meaningless protest vote that will mean more of the same from Starmer.

    No-one is being bussed in, are you not aware of election expense rules? What I saw was massive enthusiasm for Burnham causing people to travel miles under their own steam. An overflowing car park at the campaign centre spilling over into local streets.

    Any more questions?
    Ever heard of public transport?
    I have always wondered how this works. Take these scenarios:

    Party buses people in, pays for food (and lodging?). Election expense.

    The same number of people campaign at their own expense. Not an election expense.

    However, exactly the same money has been spent, just in the second case it is in penny packets and provided in kind.

    Why does one count against the constituency election expenses, and the other doesn't? The measure is how much is being spent in the constituency, not as far as I know the size of donation.
    You have got it. If volunteers travel by their own steam at their own expense then it doesn't count as spend. If the party pays to bring people then it counts as spend. With a further question as to whether it is national campaign or local campaign during general elections.

    This is why all parties appeal for volunteers to turn up to x location. Because its free.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,706
    dixiedean said:

    It would be interesting to get more details on where Nick did his canvassing. My contacts tell me there are differing impressions.

    I reckon a 3k to 5k win for Burnham.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,831

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    There is a massive amount in it for the people of the Makerfield constituency. A genuinely local PM elected in a what is now a marginal seat and facing reelection within 3 years will not only recognise the need to deliver for his constituents but will also be in a far more powerful position than anyone else in Britain to deliver his priorities. All that on top of the genuine prospect of changing direction nationally with Starmer gone.

    Or that prospect could be just frittered away in a meaningless protest vote that will mean more of the same from Starmer.

    No-one is being bussed in, are you not aware of election expense rules? What I saw was massive enthusiasm for Burnham causing people to travel miles under their own steam. An overflowing car park at the campaign centre spilling over into local streets.

    Any more questions?
    Ever heard of public transport?
    Oh, yes!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,349
    Phone rings. Random mobile. I pick it up for some reason (usually leave for voicemail).

    "hello its bloke calling from" company with three letters I have literally never heard of
    "sorry, from who?"
    He repeats. "You made an enquiry about" and then some incomprehensible garble description of some business service
    "No, I didn't" and hung up

    This is happening quite a lot. Random cold calls from companies whose script now makes out that we called them and made an enquiry.

    Nope. Sod off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,949

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    I wouldn't. NPXMP infamously got it badly wrong in his own constituency in the run up to GE2015.

    He's probably concerned about turnout. Burnham will win because he's the root to getting rid of Starmer.

    And that's as far as most people's thinking will go.
    Here's the thing - what do Conservatives actually want from this by-election?

    IF Burnham wins, it's likely Starmer will soon be gone and there'll be a new PM in town and life may get tougher for Badenoch in the Commons, OTOH, Reform will be badly dented and that will increase the chances of the Conservatives moving back into a clear second and re-establishing themselves as the alternative "Right wing" option to Labour.

    However, let's say Reform wins - Starmer stays, weakened and humiliated BUT Reform will be buoyant and look more like a Government in waiting with the Conservatives becoming less and less relevant.

    Interesting times?
    Burnham as PM pushing a tax and spend agenda also makes it easier for Kemi to push clearer economic blue water with Labour and there will be less culture wars against him than Reform have been able to push against Starmer
    Yes, its very clearly in the Tories interests that Burnham accelerates the decline of Reform.
    Indeed, the best result for the Tories is Burnham winning and starting to win back some working class voters for Labour on a tax and spend agenda (as well as squeezing the Greens) while accepting Brexit for the time being. While Restore comfortably hold their deposit and get a significant vote so Reform face a new threat from the nationalist right potentially dividing the Reform vote
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,831
    TEN DAYS TO SAVE THE LABOUR PARTY ANDY BURNHAM'S CAREER!!!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,959

    rkrkrk said:

    There is apparently a substantial portion of Labour members who want to keep Starmer.

    If some of them live in Makersfield, I wonder how they would vote in this by- election?

    I don't want Starmer to stay.

    I don't want Burnham to replace him.

    If I lived in Makerfield I would spoil my ballot.
    ...which would allow Starmer to stay.

    I hesitate to say it but the best way to achieve your twin aims would be to vote Reform, because if Burnham loses I still think Starmer is toast... it's just that Rayner will be taking over.
    It was all going so well until those last 8 words.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,282
    edited 9:31AM
    ***
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,132

    rkrkrk said:

    There is apparently a substantial portion of Labour members who want to keep Starmer.

    If some of them live in Makersfield, I wonder how they would vote in this by- election?

    I don't want Starmer to stay.

    I don't want Burnham to replace him.

    If I lived in Makerfield I would spoil my ballot.
    You’ve had an answer already but in this situation I’d vote Burnham.

    If Burnham wins, a leadership contest is inevitable and there is no guarantee that Burnham wins that.

    If Reform win, Rayner and Streeting may not bother challenging.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,208
    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    I wouldn't. NPXMP infamously got it badly wrong in his own constituency in the run up to GE2015.

    He's probably concerned about turnout. Burnham will win because he's the root to getting rid of Starmer.

    And that's as far as most people's thinking will go.
    Here's the thing - what do Conservatives actually want from this by-election?

    IF Burnham wins, it's likely Starmer will soon be gone and there'll be a new PM in town and life may get tougher for Badenoch in the Commons, OTOH, Reform will be badly dented and that will increase the chances of the Conservatives moving back into a clear second and re-establishing themselves as the alternative "Right wing" option to Labour.

    However, let's say Reform wins - Starmer stays, weakened and humiliated BUT Reform will be buoyant and look more like a Government in waiting with the Conservatives becoming less and less relevant.

    Interesting times?
    Good morning

    Unequivocally this conservative wants Burnham to win for two main reasons:

    He will almost certainly end Starmer's tenure { listening to Starmer address a tech conference this am he was more Ai than Ai, robotic and uninspiring} and at the same time stop Farage in his tracks

    Yesterday, Starmer entered his comfort zone with Zelensky, Macron and Merz at no 10 in yet another pointless meeting and almost at the same time Iran and Israel recommenced throwing missiles at one another

    On Burnham, I have often said I like him and he will bring to labour a charisma but also a laser focus on domestic issues and I doubt he has a clue on the international stage but if he appoints a good foreign secretary { not Starmer or Cooper} let them take the strain much like Cameron did

    The Andy v Kemi show will be very interesting and I notice even Gauke is praising Kemi this morning. I do expect their interaction to be more collegiate which would be very welcome

    Of course, we cannot know the future but as far as I am concerned the far right (Farage) and far left (Polanski) need to be beaten and a move to more centre policies is desirable, though not endless talk about the EU
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,453

    TEN DAYS TO SAVE THE LABOUR PARTY ANDY BURNHAM'S CAREER!!!

    It will be very interesting indeed if Mr Burnham becomes an MP only to find himself on the back benches for 3 years.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,871
    AnneJGP said:

    TEN DAYS TO SAVE THE LABOUR PARTY ANDY BURNHAM'S CAREER!!!

    It will be very interesting indeed if Mr Burnham becomes an MP only to find himself on the back benches for 3 years.
    Probably the funniest outcome.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,796
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Who from the Labour Party is campaigning for Burnham?

    Nick Palmer. And I.

    This is what I posted on 5 June based on a visit 8 days ago:
    "I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

    The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite."
    Next question. What's in it for the people of Makerfield. They elected the last MP two years ago only for him to abandon them. Now you have another self-important political type inserting himself into their lives for a clear motive of self-aggrandisement. The only plus point for Burnham is the poor quality of the other candidates. But is there really enthusiasm for him from Labour supporters locally (if you have to bus people in)?
    What's in it for the people of Makerfield is having a genuinely local individual whom they hold to account being the Prime Minister of the country.

    That is incredible, compared to constantly having out of touch London lawyers etc being the Prime Minister.

    Is it perfect? No of course not, nothing is, but having the Prime Minister answer directly to you is surely good for any constituency.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,959
    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.

    When Reform lose, the autopsy will be down to a shite candidate.

    He inspires GOTV - for his opponents.
    Reform seem to have a lot of problem with shite candidates.
    As does the Greens. Both their candidates for Makerfield were inept as was their local election candidates (again, same for Reform)

    The insurgent parties need to professionalise its candidate selection and vetting ASAP
    That's the problem though with being "insurgent" - you attract people who, apart from believing (supposedly) in your core values, have no political experience at all.

    I was politically active when the SDP came into being - two thirds of the new SDP members had never been in any political party at all. Inevitably, it was left to the ex-Labour and ex-Conservative members to show them what to do and how it worked. The came the Alliance and the Liberals worked with the SDP.

    This was all before the days of social media of course.
    Even after that. In 2014 I heard several Labour activists observe that Better Together was a means by which Labour taught the Tories how to fight elections. A refresher might be helpful but I'm not sure who would be giving it these days.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,492
    Dopermean said:

    AnneJGP said:

    I'd expect Mr Burnham to win. He's very high profile and seems to be well-liked. I don't see why there should be any 'stop him' vote.

    Also I don't see why a new party should sit out a by-election to help another party beat him. By-elections are too scarce and a new party needs the experience. (Haven't noticed whether Your Party is in this campaign.)

    Yes my sense is that there is no “we must not have him” vote, whereas that seems to be the case for everyone else.

    In a way Burnham is where Starmer was in 2024. But unless Burnham has a plan he’s going to be right back where SKS is now.
    SKS is the industrious box to box midfielder, Burnham is a vain glorious goal hanger. I'm pessimistic about him being an improvement.
    Hard to be worse, Burnham would hopefully at least clear out the absolute dross Starmer has as his cabinet
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,796
    DavidL said:

    Phone rings. Random mobile. I pick it up for some reason (usually leave for voicemail).

    "hello its bloke calling from" company with three letters I have literally never heard of
    "sorry, from who?"
    He repeats. "You made an enquiry about" and then some incomprehensible garble description of some business service
    "No, I didn't" and hung up

    This is happening quite a lot. Random cold calls from companies whose script now makes out that we called them and made an enquiry.

    Nope. Sod off.

    I really hate the ones who are phoning re your recent accident. Which didn't happen. Being someone's agent is actually a fiduciary relationship requiring the upmost good faith. And they start by lying. Even if I had had an accident how insane would I have to be to use them?
    Presumably anyone doing that is a scammer and not remotely acting as an actual agent anyway though, and is more acting like a Nigerian Prince?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,225

    DavidL said:

    Phone rings. Random mobile. I pick it up for some reason (usually leave for voicemail).

    "hello its bloke calling from" company with three letters I have literally never heard of
    "sorry, from who?"
    He repeats. "You made an enquiry about" and then some incomprehensible garble description of some business service
    "No, I didn't" and hung up

    This is happening quite a lot. Random cold calls from companies whose script now makes out that we called them and made an enquiry.

    Nope. Sod off.

    I really hate the ones who are phoning re your recent accident. Which didn't happen. Being someone's agent is actually a fiduciary relationship requiring the upmost good faith. And they start by lying. Even if I had had an accident how insane would I have to be to use them?
    Presumably anyone doing that is a scammer and not remotely acting as an actual agent anyway though, and is more acting like a Nigerian Prince?
    Clearly a scam. Hoping to hit the nexus of someone who (a) has recently had an accident and (b) can be sucked in. Sadly there will be people who fall for this.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,225
    DavidL said:

    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.

    When Reform lose, the autopsy will be down to a shite candidate.

    He inspires GOTV - for his opponents.
    Reform seem to have a lot of problem with shite candidates.
    As does the Greens. Both their candidates for Makerfield were inept as was their local election candidates (again, same for Reform)

    The insurgent parties need to professionalise its candidate selection and vetting ASAP
    That's the problem though with being "insurgent" - you attract people who, apart from believing (supposedly) in your core values, have no political experience at all.

    I was politically active when the SDP came into being - two thirds of the new SDP members had never been in any political party at all. Inevitably, it was left to the ex-Labour and ex-Conservative members to show them what to do and how it worked. The came the Alliance and the Liberals worked with the SDP.

    This was all before the days of social media of course.
    Even after that. In 2014 I heard several Labour activists observe that Better Together was a means by which Labour taught the Tories how to fight elections. A refresher might be helpful but I'm not sure who would be giving it these days.
    Bit presumptuous of Labour to claim to have schooled the most successful election winning machine in the UK's history...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,889

    DavidL said:

    Phone rings. Random mobile. I pick it up for some reason (usually leave for voicemail).

    "hello its bloke calling from" company with three letters I have literally never heard of
    "sorry, from who?"
    He repeats. "You made an enquiry about" and then some incomprehensible garble description of some business service
    "No, I didn't" and hung up

    This is happening quite a lot. Random cold calls from companies whose script now makes out that we called them and made an enquiry.

    Nope. Sod off.

    I really hate the ones who are phoning re your recent accident. Which didn't happen. Being someone's agent is actually a fiduciary relationship requiring the upmost good faith. And they start by lying. Even if I had had an accident how insane would I have to be to use them?
    Presumably anyone doing that is a scammer and not remotely acting as an actual agent anyway though, and is more acting like a Nigerian Prince?
    Clearly a scam. Hoping to hit the nexus of someone who (a) has recently had an accident and (b) can be sucked in. Sadly there will be people who fall for this.
    And whilst it won't be many, the cost of a call is so low that it's profitable overall.

    Tricky to fix.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,819
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    I wouldn't. NPXMP infamously got it badly wrong in his own constituency in the run up to GE2015.

    He's probably concerned about turnout. Burnham will win because he's the root to getting rid of Starmer.

    And that's as far as most people's thinking will go.
    Here's the thing - what do Conservatives actually want from this by-election?

    IF Burnham wins, it's likely Starmer will soon be gone and there'll be a new PM in town and life may get tougher for Badenoch in the Commons, OTOH, Reform will be badly dented and that will increase the chances of the Conservatives moving back into a clear second and re-establishing themselves as the alternative "Right wing" option to Labour.

    However, let's say Reform wins - Starmer stays, weakened and humiliated BUT Reform will be buoyant and look more like a Government in waiting with the Conservatives becoming less and less relevant.

    Interesting times?
    Burnham as PM pushing a tax and spend agenda also makes it easier for Kemi to push clearer economic blue water with Labour and there will be less culture wars against him than Reform have been able to push against Starmer
    Yes, its very clearly in the Tories interests that Burnham accelerates the decline of Reform.
    Indeed, the best result for the Tories is Burnham winning and starting to win back some working class voters for Labour on a tax and spend agenda (as well as squeezing the Greens) while accepting Brexit for the time being. While Restore comfortably hold their deposit and get a significant vote so Reform face a new threat from the nationalist right potentially dividing the Reform vote
    Also - If the Tories win Aberdeen South that would really be a good day for Kemi. Reform will be desperate to split the anti-SNP vote there.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,889

    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    Nick Palmer's constituency report suggests it might be squeaky bum time for Burnham.

    I’d trust NPXMP’s informed comments absolutely.

    But I can’t shake my uninformed view that Burnham will win easily.
    I wouldn't. NPXMP infamously got it badly wrong in his own constituency in the run up to GE2015.

    He's probably concerned about turnout. Burnham will win because he's the root to getting rid of Starmer.

    And that's as far as most people's thinking will go.
    Here's the thing - what do Conservatives actually want from this by-election?

    IF Burnham wins, it's likely Starmer will soon be gone and there'll be a new PM in town and life may get tougher for Badenoch in the Commons, OTOH, Reform will be badly dented and that will increase the chances of the Conservatives moving back into a clear second and re-establishing themselves as the alternative "Right wing" option to Labour.

    However, let's say Reform wins - Starmer stays, weakened and humiliated BUT Reform will be buoyant and look more like a Government in waiting with the Conservatives becoming less and less relevant.

    Interesting times?
    Good morning

    Unequivocally this conservative wants Burnham to win for two main reasons:

    He will almost certainly end Starmer's tenure { listening to Starmer address a tech conference this am he was more Ai than Ai, robotic and uninspiring} and at the same time stop Farage in his tracks

    Yesterday, Starmer entered his comfort zone with Zelensky, Macron and Merz at no 10 in yet another pointless meeting and almost at the same time Iran and Israel recommenced throwing missiles at one another

    On Burnham, I have often said I like him and he will bring to labour a charisma but also a laser focus on domestic issues and I doubt he has a clue on the international stage but if he appoints a good foreign secretary { not Starmer or Cooper} let them take the strain much like Cameron did

    The Andy v Kemi show will be very interesting and I notice even Gauke is praising Kemi this morning. I do expect their interaction to be more collegiate which would be very welcome

    Of course, we cannot know the future but as far as I am concerned the far right (Farage) and far left (Polanski) need to be beaten and a move to more centre policies is desirable, though not endless talk about the EU
    Comfort zone?

    Comfort zone?

    Wash your mouth out with soap and water. It would be nice to ignore Ukraine, but it would be utterly wrong, and not in the UK's interest.

    It's one thing to oppose Starmer as PM, but you're better than this
  • lockhimuplockhimup Posts: 68

    Phone rings. Random mobile. I pick it up for some reason (usually leave for voicemail).

    "hello its bloke calling from" company with three letters I have literally never heard of
    "sorry, from who?"
    He repeats. "You made an enquiry about" and then some incomprehensible garble description of some business service
    "No, I didn't" and hung up

    This is happening quite a lot. Random cold calls from companies whose script now makes out that we called them and made an enquiry.

    Nope. Sod off.

    Next time this happens do the following

    1. String them along for a bit
    2. Put headphones / ear defenders on
    3. Test smoke alarm

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,959

    DavidL said:

    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    I don’t think squeezing Restore is going to work. There were always a bunch of Reform supporters who thought Farage was a wet. Now they have a home.

    If the Reform candidate was a firebrand, maybe. But he’s a damp squib.

    When Reform lose, the autopsy will be down to a shite candidate.

    He inspires GOTV - for his opponents.
    Reform seem to have a lot of problem with shite candidates.
    As does the Greens. Both their candidates for Makerfield were inept as was their local election candidates (again, same for Reform)

    The insurgent parties need to professionalise its candidate selection and vetting ASAP
    That's the problem though with being "insurgent" - you attract people who, apart from believing (supposedly) in your core values, have no political experience at all.

    I was politically active when the SDP came into being - two thirds of the new SDP members had never been in any political party at all. Inevitably, it was left to the ex-Labour and ex-Conservative members to show them what to do and how it worked. The came the Alliance and the Liberals worked with the SDP.

    This was all before the days of social media of course.
    Even after that. In 2014 I heard several Labour activists observe that Better Together was a means by which Labour taught the Tories how to fight elections. A refresher might be helpful but I'm not sure who would be giving it these days.
    Bit presumptuous of Labour to claim to have schooled the most successful election winning machine in the UK's history...
    In fairness that successful election winning machine had made very little dent in Scotland for about 60 years. So, before the collapse of Scottish Labour, they had a point.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,349
    lockhimup said:

    Phone rings. Random mobile. I pick it up for some reason (usually leave for voicemail).

    "hello its bloke calling from" company with three letters I have literally never heard of
    "sorry, from who?"
    He repeats. "You made an enquiry about" and then some incomprehensible garble description of some business service
    "No, I didn't" and hung up

    This is happening quite a lot. Random cold calls from companies whose script now makes out that we called them and made an enquiry.

    Nope. Sod off.

    Next time this happens do the following

    1. String them along for a bit
    2. Put headphones / ear defenders on
    3. Test smoke alarm

    Don't have time to string them along
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