I don’t think it’s possible to keep Reeves as Chancellor if Starmer goes . The public currently seem to hate her as much as they do the PM .
I’ve warmed to her in recent months and suspect that a lot of the public might come to rue their apparent appetite to get rid of both the PM and the Chancellor when they see what comes after .
Looking at Burnhams campaign launch . It was a load of vacuous talking points which we’ve seen wheeled out before. My leftie bingo card was quickly filled up with status quo , de-industrialisation, Thatcherite etc.
I suspect when the shine comes off and Burnham has to make decisions that annoy people that his approval ratings will soon plummet .
That’s not to say he’s a better communicator but there’s only so much spin you can do when there’s no money and the UK economy is about to hit big trouble .
Owing to the forecast high temperatures, MCC has decided to dispense with the requirement for gentlemen to wear jackets in the Pavilion for the Blast match between Middlesex and Surrey on the day of Sunday 24 May. This applies to Members of MCC and Middlesex and their guests. https://x.com/MCCOfficial/status/2058087213116596628?s=20
I don’t think it’s possible to keep Reeves as Chancellor if Starmer goes . The public currently seem to hate her as much as they do the PM .
I’ve warmed to her in recent months and suspect that a lot of the public might come to rue their apparent appetite to get rid of both the PM and the Chancellor when they see what comes after .
Looking at Burnhams campaign launch . It was a load of vacuous talking points which we’ve seen wheeled out before. My leftie bingo card was quickly filled up with status quo , de-industrialisation, Thatcherite etc.
I suspect when the shine comes off and Burnham has to make decisions that annoy people that his approval ratings will soon plummet .
That’s not to say he’s a better communicator but there’s only so much spin you can do when there’s no money and the UK economy is about to hit big trouble .
Agreed, he needs to be bolder than he has been during the campaign, but less bold than he was before it. And then firstly carry his party and MPs with him, then the marginal reform-Labour voters. It's going to be tougher than people think.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
£1m is fine for BADR relief. Neither making 100x your investment nor starting a business with solely £500k of a single individuals capital are remotely typical.
Doesn't matter whether it's typical or not (I would argue that 1 or 2 people starting with 500k is actually quite typical, certainly of my client base - usually serial entrepreneurs with proceeds from selling their first or second business). The point is how it impacts the behaviour of founders.
If you had 500k to invest, with *the aim* of turning that into 50m in the next 3 years, would you a) do that in the UK where tax is currently 24% and mooted to be raised to 45% with limited relief around the margins and probable exit tax (and to Foxy's _very_ valid point, a constantly changing and unstable regulatory environment?) or would you invest it somewhere that has been a flat 20% for the last 40 years and will likely continue to be?
So even if your business "fails" and only becomes worth 1m (and you sell it for 1m and try agian, which is what most of the "serial entrepreneurs" I know do) the point is if you're aiming for a 50m valuation every time, you set up in the country that will be optimal for that to maximise your gains if you do hit it big? I would not be looking to set up a business at all in the UK right now for the above reasons.
Fundamentally that our political class do not understand not only economics but also behavioural economics just leaves me pounding my head against the wall in frustration.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
£1m is fine for BADR relief. Neither making 100x your investment nor starting a business with solely £500k of a single individuals capital are remotely typical.
What was the PB verdict on the Starship test ? It did not appear particularly successful.
BBC report says it was successful, I assume that's enough to reassure everyone to buy in despite the risks of a classic Muskian overpromise or delay impacting the rather dramatic long term predictions.
He says it with a straight face too I bet. Does no one tell him what Moscow targets all the time without even claiming those targets as military?
Vladimir Putin has promised retaliation after accusing Ukraine of carrying out a deadly attack on a student dormitory in an occupied part of eastern Ukraine.
Ten people were killed and 38 others injured in the overnight strike in the town of Starobilsk, in the Luhansk region, the local Russian-backed governor said. Another 11 people remain missing, he said.
Ukraine's military said it had hit the headquarters of Russia's elite Rubicon drone military unit in Starobilsk. It did not say whether it was the same building as the one identified by Russia.
You know when you see vox pops and start thinking oh dear !
Unusually they found someone who did make a useful comment !
The woman said she was worried about Reform Restore splitting the vote and allowing Labour to win the seat .
It's a common sentiment - see our own Lucky on the last thread.
It was a Labour seat until the by-election was called and Labour has a massive majority. So the real concern is that if Labour win it again Mr Burnham may well become PM. It's pretty clear that SKS will be replaced anyway so all a Labour loss would achieve is to constrain the field of candidates.
That's the best and most hilarious outcone for me. Burnham to fail. The king across the water holed below the waterline.
Labour are done for , from the derision over the get £5 off your zoo visit to that Bozo Milliband wrecking the oil and gas business by importing expensive crap, You could not make up how tin eared these thick as mince muppets are. labour should never ever be allowed any control of anything again, they are just clowns.
Cutting VAT on theme park tickets is the most contemptible bread and circuses nonsense and I think it'll be treated with the derision it deserves.
I agree, but we're still going to Chessington World Of Adventures anyway.
He says it with a straight face too I bet. Does no one tell him what Moscow targets all the time without even claiming those targets as military?
Vladimir Putin has promised retaliation after accusing Ukraine of carrying out a deadly attack on a student dormitory in an occupied part of eastern Ukraine.
Ten people were killed and 38 others injured in the overnight strike in the town of Starobilsk, in the Luhansk region, the local Russian-backed governor said. Another 11 people remain missing, he said.
Ukraine's military said it had hit the headquarters of Russia's elite Rubicon drone military unit in Starobilsk. It did not say whether it was the same building as the one identified by Russia.
Both are possibly true. I can easily imagine the Russians putting major HQs in buildings with lots of civilians nearby in the hope Ukraine won't dare hit them.
That would of course be a war crime on the part of Russia.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
£1m is fine for BADR relief. Neither making 100x your investment nor starting a business with solely £500k of a single individuals capital are remotely typical.
We need the untypical businesses, though.
I have mentioned this a number of times before. The UK has a bipolar business landscape, huge numbers of one man bands / micro businesses and then mega-corps who employ 10,000s. The number of companies employing say 500 - 5000 is very small (I can't remember the exact stat) compared to other developed economies, the likes of Germany, who has more of a balance of sized businesses.
Basically it is very very hard to scale a business in the UK from getting investment, turn over taxes, potential exit, etc. There is also a culture in the UK compared to the US which far too often the people who do scale a business sell and then take their money, perhaps do a bit of angel investing here or there, but protect their wealth is number one priority.
Where as the Americans are much more lets go again, they are willing to keep putting large amount of their capital on the line time and time again.
I think BADR is too low at £1 million, £10 million I think was ok, but maybe somewhere in the middle is fine. I wonder if there is a way to incentize that those willing to take their payouts and go backing British businesses from that money.
Much to my surprise, it turns out that Carthage was very much a peer nation, in military terms, to Rome. They twice brought them to the point of defeat, something no other nation did, before the rise of the Sassanids.
Mr. F, cheers for that link. I'm a bit pushed for time but look forward to reading it soon.
I will say that I quite like the Diadochi era and am somewhat familiar with how Rome defeated Alexander's Successors at battles like Kyonskephelai, Pydna, and Magnesia, so I'm not surprised by the early mention of a huge disparity in dead Romans. If Carthage hadn't had Hanno working, effectively, for the Romans and had reinforced Hannibal, things could've gone differently.
I expect that you are familiar with this excellent new book on Carthage. I very much enjoyed it.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
£1m is fine for BADR relief. Neither making 100x your investment nor starting a business with solely £500k of a single individuals capital are remotely typical.
Doesn't matter whether it's typical or not (I would argue that 1 or 2 people starting with 500k is actually quite typical, certainly of my client base - usually serial entrepreneurs with proceeds from selling their first or second business). The point is how it impacts the behaviour of founders.
If you had 500k to invest, with *the aim* of turning that into 50m in the next 3 years, would you a) do that in the UK where tax is currently 24% and mooted to be raised to 45% with limited relief around the margins and probable exit tax (and to Foxy's _very_ valid point, a constantly changing and unstable regulatory environment?) or would you invest it somewhere that has been a flat 20% for the last 40 years and will likely continue to be?
So even if your business "fails" and only becomes worth 1m (and you sell it for 1m and try agian, which is what most of the "serial entrepreneurs" I know do) the point is if you're aiming for a 50m valuation every time, you set up in the country that will be optimal for that to maximise your gains if you do hit it big? I would not be looking to set up a business at all in the UK right now for the above reasons.
Fundamentally that our political class do not understand not only economics but also behavioural economics just leaves me pounding my head against the wall in frustration.
Despite having set up a couple of businesses from scratch my mindset is very different, so yes I would still start a new business in the UK, mostly as I like living here, also I understand it and there is a decent labour pool to recruit from. I do think you are a bit overly focused on the specific scenarios common to you which are atypical in the wider economy. As a nation, we also tend to put ourselves down way too much:
What was the PB verdict on the Starship test ? It did not appear particularly successful.
BBC report says it was successful, I assume that's enough to reassure everyone to buy in despite the risks of a classic Muskian overpromise or delay impacting the rather dramatic long term predictions.
The IPO is going to have a massive distortionary effect on indexes, at its 2t valuation. Is Starship proves an unusable dead end...
He says it with a straight face too I bet. Does no one tell him what Moscow targets all the time without even claiming those targets as military?
Vladimir Putin has promised retaliation after accusing Ukraine of carrying out a deadly attack on a student dormitory in an occupied part of eastern Ukraine.
Ten people were killed and 38 others injured in the overnight strike in the town of Starobilsk, in the Luhansk region, the local Russian-backed governor said. Another 11 people remain missing, he said.
Ukraine's military said it had hit the headquarters of Russia's elite Rubicon drone military unit in Starobilsk. It did not say whether it was the same building as the one identified by Russia.
Do you think Rubikon had decided to put their HQ (which is/was in Kubinka near Moscow) in a the dormitory of a teacher training college in a minor shithole like Starobilsk? Or, and bear with me here, do you think Ukraine hit the wrong building and are now lying about it?
He says it with a straight face too I bet. Does no one tell him what Moscow targets all the time without even claiming those targets as military?
Vladimir Putin has promised retaliation after accusing Ukraine of carrying out a deadly attack on a student dormitory in an occupied part of eastern Ukraine.
Ten people were killed and 38 others injured in the overnight strike in the town of Starobilsk, in the Luhansk region, the local Russian-backed governor said. Another 11 people remain missing, he said.
Ukraine's military said it had hit the headquarters of Russia's elite Rubicon drone military unit in Starobilsk. It did not say whether it was the same building as the one identified by Russia.
Do you think Rubikon had decided to put their HQ (which is/was in Kubinka near Moscow) in a the dormitory of a teacher training college in a minor shithole like Starobilsk? Or, and bear with me here, do you think Ukraine hit the wrong building and are now lying about it?
Yes.
(Although if Russia wanted to be helpful, could they please tell the Ukrainians that their HQs are in or near the DfE?)
He says it with a straight face too I bet. Does no one tell him what Moscow targets all the time without even claiming those targets as military?
Vladimir Putin has promised retaliation after accusing Ukraine of carrying out a deadly attack on a student dormitory in an occupied part of eastern Ukraine.
Ten people were killed and 38 others injured in the overnight strike in the town of Starobilsk, in the Luhansk region, the local Russian-backed governor said. Another 11 people remain missing, he said.
Ukraine's military said it had hit the headquarters of Russia's elite Rubicon drone military unit in Starobilsk. It did not say whether it was the same building as the one identified by Russia.
Do you think Rubikon had decided to put their HQ (which is/was in Kubinka near Moscow) in a the dormitory of a teacher training college in a minor shithole like Starobilsk? Or, and bear with me here, do you think Ukraine hit the wrong building and are now lying about it?
Do you think Ukraine would be forced to attack Russia at all if, and bear with me, the idiots in the Kremlin hadn't invaded?
I don’t think it’s possible to keep Reeves as Chancellor if Starmer goes . The public currently seem to hate her as much as they do the PM .
I’ve warmed to her in recent months and suspect that a lot of the public might come to rue their apparent appetite to get rid of both the PM and the Chancellor when they see what comes after .
Looking at Burnhams campaign launch . It was a load of vacuous talking points which we’ve seen wheeled out before. My leftie bingo card was quickly filled up with status quo , de-industrialisation, Thatcherite etc.
I suspect when the shine comes off and Burnham has to make decisions that annoy people that his approval ratings will soon plummet .
That’s not to say he’s a better communicator but there’s only so much spin you can do when there’s no money and the UK economy is about to hit big trouble .
I'd like to see her unfettered by the timidity and fear of failure of McSweeney and Starmer.
She is the most qualified of recent Chancellors despite the pathetic smears of the Right and deserves a chance to stabilise the utter shit show she inherited and to continue to have the vital market support she has.
He says it with a straight face too I bet. Does no one tell him what Moscow targets all the time without even claiming those targets as military?
Vladimir Putin has promised retaliation after accusing Ukraine of carrying out a deadly attack on a student dormitory in an occupied part of eastern Ukraine.
Ten people were killed and 38 others injured in the overnight strike in the town of Starobilsk, in the Luhansk region, the local Russian-backed governor said. Another 11 people remain missing, he said.
Ukraine's military said it had hit the headquarters of Russia's elite Rubicon drone military unit in Starobilsk. It did not say whether it was the same building as the one identified by Russia.
Do you think Rubikon had decided to put their HQ (which is/was in Kubinka near Moscow) in a the dormitory of a teacher training college in a minor shithole like Starobilsk? Or, and bear with me here, do you think Ukraine hit the wrong building and are now lying about it?
I don’t think it’s possible to keep Reeves as Chancellor if Starmer goes . The public currently seem to hate her as much as they do the PM .
I’ve warmed to her in recent months and suspect that a lot of the public might come to rue their apparent appetite to get rid of both the PM and the Chancellor when they see what comes after .
Looking at Burnhams campaign launch . It was a load of vacuous talking points which we’ve seen wheeled out before. My leftie bingo card was quickly filled up with status quo , de-industrialisation, Thatcherite etc.
I suspect when the shine comes off and Burnham has to make decisions that annoy people that his approval ratings will soon plummet .
That’s not to say he’s a better communicator but there’s only so much spin you can do when there’s no money and the UK economy is about to hit big trouble .
I'd like to see her unfettered by the timidity and fear of failure of McSweeney and Starmer.
She is the most qualified of recent Chancellors despite the pathetic smears of the Right and deserves a chance to stabilise the utter shit show she inherited and to continue to have the vital market support she has.
LOL. That comment cannot stand. Hunt - serial entrepreneur. Sunak - banker and hedgie.
Has Reeves ever been responsible for creating a job or fostering business in her life? Or has she been a perpetual PAYE recipient? I'd say she is uniquely unqualified to be CoE...
That is a really clunky slogan and terrible use of the English language.
Yes, my memory of him in his previous parliamentary incarnation was of a vacuous non-entity. But it is something of a surprise to be reminded of just how utterly vapid he is.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
The trouble is you won't get any purchase unless you acknowledge people have legitimate concerns about migration and cultural change. If the vast majority of people arriving in the UK were liberal humanists with modern views on gender relations it wouldn't matter so much.
I am not sure I entirely agree.
We Brexited because we didn't like Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. They were getting in the way of our kids's education, they were always Infront of us in the queue for the GP. Ironically they were very much in character with immigrants from Ireland from the last century, and the one before that (we didn't like them either). So we voted Brexit to send them home, despite the fact that within a generation they would have integrated in every way and we wouldn't have been able to tell whether their ancestors came from Warsaw or Walsall. Still, we didn't want them anyway, they sounded different to us and we sent them packing. Farage, the Mail and the Telegraph told us it was all a Blairite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language. And now we are saying we don't like people from the Indian subcontinent because they are different and Farage, the Mail , the Telegraph and GB News are telling us they are a Starmerite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language...
He says it with a straight face too I bet. Does no one tell him what Moscow targets all the time without even claiming those targets as military?
Vladimir Putin has promised retaliation after accusing Ukraine of carrying out a deadly attack on a student dormitory in an occupied part of eastern Ukraine.
Ten people were killed and 38 others injured in the overnight strike in the town of Starobilsk, in the Luhansk region, the local Russian-backed governor said. Another 11 people remain missing, he said.
Ukraine's military said it had hit the headquarters of Russia's elite Rubicon drone military unit in Starobilsk. It did not say whether it was the same building as the one identified by Russia.
Do you think Rubikon had decided to put their HQ (which is/was in Kubinka near Moscow) in a the dormitory of a teacher training college in a minor shithole like Starobilsk? Or, and bear with me here, do you think Ukraine hit the wrong building and are now lying about it?
He says it with a straight face too I bet. Does no one tell him what Moscow targets all the time without even claiming those targets as military?
Vladimir Putin has promised retaliation after accusing Ukraine of carrying out a deadly attack on a student dormitory in an occupied part of eastern Ukraine.
Ten people were killed and 38 others injured in the overnight strike in the town of Starobilsk, in the Luhansk region, the local Russian-backed governor said. Another 11 people remain missing, he said.
Ukraine's military said it had hit the headquarters of Russia's elite Rubicon drone military unit in Starobilsk. It did not say whether it was the same building as the one identified by Russia.
Do you think Rubikon had decided to put their HQ (which is/was in Kubinka near Moscow) in a the dormitory of a teacher training college in a minor shithole like Starobilsk? Or, and bear with me here, do you think Ukraine hit the wrong building and are now lying about it?
Keep fighting the good fight. To be fair we don't have many (any?) other posters giving us the Russian perspective on the war.
Much to my surprise, it turns out that Carthage was very much a peer nation, in military terms, to Rome. They twice brought them to the point of defeat, something no other nation did, before the rise of the Sassanids.
Mr. F, cheers for that link. I'm a bit pushed for time but look forward to reading it soon.
I will say that I quite like the Diadochi era and am somewhat familiar with how Rome defeated Alexander's Successors at battles like Kyonskephelai, Pydna, and Magnesia, so I'm not surprised by the early mention of a huge disparity in dead Romans. If Carthage hadn't had Hanno working, effectively, for the Romans and had reinforced Hannibal, things could've gone differently.
I expect that you are familiar with this excellent new book on Carthage. I very much enjoyed it.
I don’t think it’s possible to keep Reeves as Chancellor if Starmer goes . The public currently seem to hate her as much as they do the PM .
I’ve warmed to her in recent months and suspect that a lot of the public might come to rue their apparent appetite to get rid of both the PM and the Chancellor when they see what comes after .
Looking at Burnhams campaign launch . It was a load of vacuous talking points which we’ve seen wheeled out before. My leftie bingo card was quickly filled up with status quo , de-industrialisation, Thatcherite etc.
I suspect when the shine comes off and Burnham has to make decisions that annoy people that his approval ratings will soon plummet .
That’s not to say he’s a better communicator but there’s only so much spin you can do when there’s no money and the UK economy is about to hit big trouble .
What everyone has to understand is that running the country is running the country.
Yes, you can vote for who you'd like to do it but in the end it's reality in the real world all of them have to deal with and, if they don't, they fail fast.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
£1m is fine for BADR relief. Neither making 100x your investment nor starting a business with solely £500k of a single individuals capital are remotely typical.
We need the untypical businesses, though.
I have mentioned this a number of times before. The UK has a bipolar business landscape, huge numbers of one man bands / micro businesses and then mega-corps who employ 10,000s. The number of companies employing say 500 - 5000 is very small (I can't remember the exact stat) compared to other developed economies, the likes of Germany, who has more of a balance of sized businesses.
Basically it is very very hard to scale a business in the UK from getting investment, turn over taxes, potential exit, etc. There is also a culture in the UK compared to the US which far too often the people who do scale a business sell and then take their money, perhaps do a bit of angel investing here or there, but protect their wealth is number one priority.
Where as the Americans are much more lets go again, they are willing to keep putting large amount of their capital on the line time and time again.
I think BADR is too low at £1 million, £10 million I think was ok, but maybe somewhere in the middle is fine. I wonder if there is a way to incentize that those willing to take their payouts and go backing British businesses from that money.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
The trouble is you won't get any purchase unless you acknowledge people have legitimate concerns about migration and cultural change. If the vast majority of people arriving in the UK were liberal humanists with modern views on gender relations it wouldn't matter so much.
I am not sure I entirely agree.
We Brexited because we didn't like Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. They were getting in the way of our kids's education, they were always Infront of us in the queue for the GP. Ironically they were very much in character with immigrants from Ireland from the last century, and the one before that (we didn't like them either). So we voted Brexit to send them home, despite the fact that within a generation they would have integrated in every way and we wouldn't have been able to tell whether their ancestors came from Warsaw or Walsall. Still, we didn't want them anyway, they sounded different to us and we sent them packing. Farage, the Mail and the Telegraph told us it was all a Blairite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language. And now we are saying we don't like people from the Indian subcontinent because they are different and Farage, the Mail , the Telegraph and GB News are telling us they are a Starmerite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language...
We have had several generations worth of migration from non-western countries and several generations worth of non-integration. Not to say that some don't embrace the native culture and institutions but many, particularly from Islamic cultures, have no interest in doing so. Are you really so blind as to not see this?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
£1m is fine for BADR relief. Neither making 100x your investment nor starting a business with solely £500k of a single individuals capital are remotely typical.
We need the untypical businesses, though.
I have mentioned this a number of times before. The UK has a bipolar business landscape, huge numbers of one man bands / micro businesses and then mega-corps who employ 10,000s. The number of companies employing say 500 - 5000 is very small (I can't remember the exact stat) compared to other developed economies, the likes of Germany, who has more of a balance of sized businesses.
Basically it is very very hard to scale a business in the UK from getting investment, turn over taxes, potential exit, etc. There is also a culture in the UK compared to the US which far too often the people who do scale a business sell and then take their money, perhaps do a bit of angel investing here or there, but protect their wealth is number one priority.
Where as the Americans are much more lets go again, they are willing to keep putting large amount of their capital on the line time and time again.
I think BADR is too low at £1 million, £10 million I think was ok, but maybe somewhere in the middle is fine. I wonder if there is a way to incentize that those willing to take their payouts and go backing British businesses from that money.
We have something similar IIRC with the Enterprise Investment Scheme but it's very bureaucratic, only certain investments qualify, and it defers the CGT liability rather than eliminates it (again IIRC). Fundamentally the problem is we fiddle around the edges with incentive schemes (that tend to be introduced and withdrawn quite arbitrarily) when actually a consistent, flat, lower rate of CGT and stable tax/regulatory environment would create greater liquidity and invite a great deal more investment. Instead, we are about to increase taxes on investment...
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
The trouble is you won't get any purchase unless you acknowledge people have legitimate concerns about migration and cultural change. If the vast majority of people arriving in the UK were liberal humanists with modern views on gender relations it wouldn't matter so much.
I am not sure I entirely agree.
We Brexited because we didn't like Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. They were getting in the way of our kids's education, they were always Infront of us in the queue for the GP. Ironically they were very much in character with immigrants from Ireland from the last century, and the one before that (we didn't like them either). So we voted Brexit to send them home, despite the fact that within a generation they would have integrated in every way and we wouldn't have been able to tell whether their ancestors came from Warsaw or Walsall. Still, we didn't want them anyway, they sounded different to us and we sent them packing. Farage, the Mail and the Telegraph told us it was all a Blairite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language. And now we are saying we don't like people from the Indian subcontinent because they are different and Farage, the Mail , the Telegraph and GB News are telling us they are a Starmerite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language...
Poles, in general, don't go for cousin marriage, don't want sharia law, don't do female genital mutilation, don't want to blow me up, don't want to blow kids up, don't put their women in death shrouds, don't refuse to integrate, don't want homosexuals executed, don't want blasphemy laws, and don't commit sexual crimes about 12-20 times the national average (per Danish ethnic/crime data, this month)
So, there is bit of a difference between certain migrant groups. Is there not?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
He says it with a straight face too I bet. Does no one tell him what Moscow targets all the time without even claiming those targets as military?
Vladimir Putin has promised retaliation after accusing Ukraine of carrying out a deadly attack on a student dormitory in an occupied part of eastern Ukraine.
Ten people were killed and 38 others injured in the overnight strike in the town of Starobilsk, in the Luhansk region, the local Russian-backed governor said. Another 11 people remain missing, he said.
Ukraine's military said it had hit the headquarters of Russia's elite Rubicon drone military unit in Starobilsk. It did not say whether it was the same building as the one identified by Russia.
Do you think Rubikon had decided to put their HQ (which is/was in Kubinka near Moscow) in a the dormitory of a teacher training college in a minor shithole like Starobilsk? Or, and bear with me here, do you think Ukraine hit the wrong building and are now lying about it?
I would put that down to defensive fog of war rather than a distinct instruction from Vladimir Putin for military operations to target civilian dwellings in Kiev?
I am quite comfortable to accept that those girls at school in Tehran were victims of a terrible fog of war mistake during a hostile attempt to overthrow the Iranian Government. However criticism can be aimed at the US, because despite having more up-to-date intel they were using twenty year old data for their attack.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Classy
Given that he has spent the entire thread calling me a "demented racist" who buys tat from car boot sales, he's getting off lightly. For a start, I never go to car boot sales
He is also quite extraordinarily boring and pompous. Sending him away with a quick F bomb is the best method with these people
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
He had a sense of humour.
LDs struggle with that.
Johnson had a very peculiar sense of humour. He was very Trumpian by nature. Very keen to humiliate people he didn't like or he deemed inferior to him but seething when he was the but of the joke.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
He had a sense of humour.
LDs struggle with that.
Johnson had a very peculiar sense of humour. He was very Trumpian by nature. Very keen to humiliate people he didn't like or he deemed inferior to him but seething when he was the but of the joke.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
Meh, when Jenrick, Bernard Jenkin et al are still in the House, the Lib Dems don't even get to bronze on the political pomposity scale
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
He had a sense of humour.
LDs struggle with that.
"The LibDems are not just empty. They are a void within a vacuum surrounded by a vast inanition." - Boris.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
I'm trying to imagine Gordon Brown stuck on that zip-wire.
Nope.
Even better, a tandem with Brown and Farage.
I'd laugh at that. Not sure either of them would...
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
Meh,
Lol!
Don't be mean, this is spiritual progress
@Cicero is admitting that Yes, he is insufferably pompous, like most Lib Dems, he's just saying that he doesn't care: Meh
As Simone Weil said, in the opening chapter of Gravity and Grace: "One should always applaud a soul that moves to greater self awareness, especially if they are a total cock"
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
The trouble is you won't get any purchase unless you acknowledge people have legitimate concerns about migration and cultural change. If the vast majority of people arriving in the UK were liberal humanists with modern views on gender relations it wouldn't matter so much.
I am not sure I entirely agree.
We Brexited because we didn't like Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. They were getting in the way of our kids's education, they were always Infront of us in the queue for the GP. Ironically they were very much in character with immigrants from Ireland from the last century, and the one before that (we didn't like them either). So we voted Brexit to send them home, despite the fact that within a generation they would have integrated in every way and we wouldn't have been able to tell whether their ancestors came from Warsaw or Walsall. Still, we didn't want them anyway, they sounded different to us and we sent them packing. Farage, the Mail and the Telegraph told us it was all a Blairite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language. And now we are saying we don't like people from the Indian subcontinent because they are different and Farage, the Mail , the Telegraph and GB News are telling us they are a Starmerite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language...
We have had several generations worth of migration from non-western countries and several generations worth of non-integration. Not to say that some don't embrace the native culture and institutions but many, particularly from Islamic cultures, have no interest in doing so. Are you really so blind as to not see this?
I have been entirely factual in my analysis. I could have referenced Powell's infamous 1968 Birmingham Town Hall speech. At that point in time he was promoting his perceived difference between Afro-Carribeans and himself. As far as he and his followers were concerned people from the Carribbean were a clear and present threat. Funny that, because a full integration has taken place in the intervening years.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
I'm trying to imagine Gordon Brown stuck on that zip-wire.
Nope.
Even better, a tandem with Brown and Farage.
I'd laugh at that. Not sure either of them would...
Yes, Farage is less able to self deprecate than Boris. He can be prickly. Brown was even worse
Blair was good at it. Burnham is, I suspect, pretty good at it. Starmer is not. Thatcher managed to avoid the question through moral greatness
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
He had a sense of humour.
LDs struggle with that.
Johnson had a very peculiar sense of humour. He was very Trumpian by nature. Very keen to humiliate people he didn't like or he deemed inferior to him but seething when he was the but of the joke.
I do believe the whole Giro D’Italia is coming past the end of the road, here, tomorrow. And it’s very hot for May; no sort of weather to by cycling about in the afternoon.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
Meh, when Jenrick, Bernard Jenkin et al are still in the House, the Lib Dems don't even get to bronze on the political pomposity scale
Might have been a more compelling most if you hadn't first posted "meh" and then taken 2 minutes to edit into something mildly less shit.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
My view is that the kind of party that you would wish to see in power has no prospect of being elected in a rich world democracy.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
He had a sense of humour.
LDs struggle with that.
Johnson had a very peculiar sense of humour. He was very Trumpian by nature. Very keen to humiliate people he didn't like or he deemed inferior to him but seething when he was the but of the joke.
Actually that was a criticism I saw of Cameron and Osborne (by Benedict Brogan I think). That they had a rather snide sense of humour and enjoyed joking downwards. Not saying they couldn't take a joke at their own expense though.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
He had a sense of humour.
LDs struggle with that.
"The LibDems are not just empty. They are a void within a vacuum surrounded by a vast inanition." - Boris.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Classy
Given that he has spent the entire thread calling me a "demented racist" who buys tat from car boot sales, he's getting off lightly. For a start, I never go to car boot sales
He is also quite extraordinarily boring and pompous. Sending him away with a quick F bomb is the best method with these people
Bollocks.
Still not up to taking the bet though are you? C'mon Susan, just f*cking do it.
Otherwise the nasty man is going to keep being nasty to you until you accept that not taking the bet makes you a weak kneed sad case, typical of the near geriatric late baby boomers
If you’re thinking Starmer campaigning for his sworn opponent in a by-election is unprecedented you’re absolutely wrong! Here’s Dennis Healey campaigning for Tony Benn in the 1984 Chesterfield by-election.. https://x.com/BrynHGriffiths/status/2058089823093612860
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
He had a sense of humour.
LDs struggle with that.
Johnson had a very peculiar sense of humour. He was very Trumpian by nature. Very keen to humiliate people he didn't like or he deemed inferior to him but seething when he was the but of the joke.
Actually that was a criticism I saw of Cameron and Osborne (by Benedict Brogan I think). That they had a rather snide sense of humour and enjoyed joking downwards. Not saying they couldn't take a joke at their own expense though.
I can believe that. They are both classic snobs, and not brilliant at hiding it
Everyone is probably snobbish in some way - it's like racism, or flatulence. An unfortunate flaw in the human condition
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
My view is that the kind of party that you would wish to see in power has no prospect of being elected in a rich world democracy.
They tend to skip the getting elected part.
I doubt he wants a party in power. More an anarchic state where lads like him can roam as they please. Might not be so good for women though.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
I'd go with Leon on this one.
The Boris issue is not that he is pompous, but that he is an incompetent, superficial, unreliable, morality free, unprincipled, greedy, dishonest, self-serving flibbertigibbert.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
I'd go with Leon on this one.
The Boris issue is not that he is pompous, but that he is an incompetent, superficial, unreliable, morality free, unprincipled, greedy, dishonest, self-serving flibbertigibbert.
Yes, and I would agree with that. Boris had multiple character flaws (and some virtues) and your list is pretty accurate
It's quite bizarre to accuse Bozza of the one thing he really really wasn't, it's like saying "that fucking Hitler, with his constant smoking, I hate him"
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
My view is that the kind of party that you would wish to see in power has no prospect of being elected in a rich world democracy.
They tend to skip the getting elected part.
I doubt he wants a party in power. More an anarchic state where lads like him can roam as they please. Might not be so good for women though.
Standard communist views I would say. Happy to impoverish and emiserate the entire population (of the world, and future versions of it) for that vision.
But obviously an extremely good poster and by some measure cleverer than almost anyone on here. You take the rough with the smooth.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
He had a sense of humour.
LDs struggle with that.
You mean, when Ed Davey had that waterboarding incident, it really was the CIA trying to torture him?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
He had a sense of humour.
LDs struggle with that.
Johnson had a very peculiar sense of humour. He was very Trumpian by nature. Very keen to humiliate people he didn't like or he deemed inferior to him but seething when he was the but of the joke.
Actually that was a criticism I saw of Cameron and Osborne (by Benedict Brogan I think). That they had a rather snide sense of humour and enjoyed joking downwards. Not saying they couldn't take a joke at their own expense though.
I can believe that. They are both classic snobs, and not brilliant at hiding it
Everyone is probably snobbish in some way - it's like racism, or flatulence. An unfortunate flaw in the human condition
But Cam and Oz are a bit more snobbish than most
I don't think people should feel the need to apologise for their privilege but they might at least accept it has given them some advantages others haven't had. And if you really want to be snide towards the lower sections of society why go into politics in a democracy?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
Merely because he can laugh at himself doesn't mean he isn't pompous. Arthur Lowe was similar - he made an actual joke of his pomposity.
But of course, as a humble flint knapper you may not fully grasp the nuances of the English language.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
Meh, when Jenrick, Bernard Jenkin et al are still in the House, the Lib Dems don't even get to bronze on the political pomposity scale
Might have been a more compelling most if you hadn't first posted "meh" and then taken 2 minutes to edit into something mildly less shit.
But not much.
I needed to edit down the list of Reform and Tory MPs to the ones aged under 85.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
I'd go with Leon on this one.
The Boris issue is not that he is pompous, but that he is an incompetent, superficial, unreliable, morality free, unprincipled, greedy, dishonest, self-serving flibbertigibbert.
And so far up himself he views the world through his own mouth.
Which is the point I was making.
Although I was also noting it wasn't an issue, which brings us back to CR's point still not being correct.
If you’re thinking Starmer campaigning for his sworn opponent in a by-election is unprecedented you’re absolutely wrong! Here’s Dennis Healey campaigning for Tony Benn in the 1984 Chesterfield by-election.. https://x.com/BrynHGriffiths/status/2058089823093612860
Brief, but brilliant, especially Benn laughing his head off.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
Merely because he can laugh at himself doesn't mean he isn't pompous. Arthur Lowe was similar - he made an actual joke of his pomposity.
But of course, as a humble flint knapper you may not fully grasp the nuances of the English language.
I don't think that is true. If you are laughing or encouraging others to laugh at your own pomposity, you are not pompous, you are feigning pomposity. Pompousness itself depends on over-seriousness.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
The trouble is you won't get any purchase unless you acknowledge people have legitimate concerns about migration and cultural change. If the vast majority of people arriving in the UK were liberal humanists with modern views on gender relations it wouldn't matter so much.
I am not sure I entirely agree.
We Brexited because we didn't like Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. They were getting in the way of our kids's education, they were always Infront of us in the queue for the GP. Ironically they were very much in character with immigrants from Ireland from the last century, and the one before that (we didn't like them either). So we voted Brexit to send them home, despite the fact that within a generation they would have integrated in every way and we wouldn't have been able to tell whether their ancestors came from Warsaw or Walsall. Still, we didn't want them anyway, they sounded different to us and we sent them packing. Farage, the Mail and the Telegraph told us it was all a Blairite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language. And now we are saying we don't like people from the Indian subcontinent because they are different and Farage, the Mail , the Telegraph and GB News are telling us they are a Starmerite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language...
Poles, in general, don't go for cousin marriage, don't want sharia law, don't do female genital mutilation, don't want to blow me up, don't want to blow kids up, don't put their women in death shrouds, don't refuse to integrate, don't want homosexuals executed, don't want blasphemy laws, and don't commit sexual crimes about 12-20 times the national average (per Danish ethnic/crime data, this month)
So, there is bit of a difference between certain migrant groups. Is there not?
It's interesting how the far right argument against Islam is often "they want to throw queers off the roof you know" (and for all I know, many of them probably do) but it wasn't Muslims calling my partner a t***** or taking away her right to pee in the toilet aligned with the genitalia she possessed at her time of death, either. It was the far right and their fellow travellers.
I agree with you that we don't want to import knuckle-dragging, inbred, misogynists, homophobes and transphobes into the UK en masse, but what do we do about the home grown ones, of which there are many?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
My view is that the kind of party that you would wish to see in power has no prospect of being elected in a rich world democracy.
They tend to skip the getting elected part.
I doubt he wants a party in power. More an anarchic state where lads like him can roam as they please. Might not be so good for women though.
Standard communist views I would say. Happy to impoverish and emiserate the entire population (of the world, and future versions of it) for that vision.
But obviously an extremely good poster and by some measure cleverer than almost anyone on here. You take the rough with the smooth.
I think he'd hate the constraints of a communist society.
French authorities have suspended new EU border checks at the Port of Dover after they caused gridlock on the first bank holiday weekend since their introduction.
I don’t think it’s possible to keep Reeves as Chancellor if Starmer goes . The public currently seem to hate her as much as they do the PM .
I’ve warmed to her in recent months and suspect that a lot of the public might come to rue their apparent appetite to get rid of both the PM and the Chancellor when they see what comes after .
Looking at Burnhams campaign launch . It was a load of vacuous talking points which we’ve seen wheeled out before. My leftie bingo card was quickly filled up with status quo , de-industrialisation, Thatcherite etc.
I suspect when the shine comes off and Burnham has to make decisions that annoy people that his approval ratings will soon plummet .
That’s not to say he’s a better communicator but there’s only so much spin you can do when there’s no money and the UK economy is about to hit big trouble .
I'd like to see her unfettered by the timidity and fear of failure of McSweeney and Starmer.
She is the most qualified of recent Chancellors despite the pathetic smears of the Right and deserves a chance to stabilise the utter shit show she inherited and to continue to have the vital market support she has.
LOL. That comment cannot stand. Hunt - serial entrepreneur. Sunak - banker and hedgie.
Has Reeves ever been responsible for creating a job or fostering business in her life? Or has she been a perpetual PAYE recipient? I'd say she is uniquely unqualified to be CoE...
The Chancellor should be in charge of fiscal and budgetry control first and foremost, not gambling on the stock market.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
I'm trying to imagine Gordon Brown stuck on that zip-wire.
Nope.
Even better, a tandem with Brown and Farage.
I'd laugh at that. Not sure either of them would...
Yes, Farage is less able to self deprecate than Boris. He can be prickly. Brown was even worse
Blair was good at it. Burnham is, I suspect, pretty good at it. Starmer is not. Thatcher managed to avoid the question through moral greatness
Enoch Powell was once photographed on a pogo stick.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
The trouble is you won't get any purchase unless you acknowledge people have legitimate concerns about migration and cultural change. If the vast majority of people arriving in the UK were liberal humanists with modern views on gender relations it wouldn't matter so much.
I am not sure I entirely agree.
We Brexited because we didn't like Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. They were getting in the way of our kids's education, they were always Infront of us in the queue for the GP. Ironically they were very much in character with immigrants from Ireland from the last century, and the one before that (we didn't like them either). So we voted Brexit to send them home, despite the fact that within a generation they would have integrated in every way and we wouldn't have been able to tell whether their ancestors came from Warsaw or Walsall. Still, we didn't want them anyway, they sounded different to us and we sent them packing. Farage, the Mail and the Telegraph told us it was all a Blairite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language. And now we are saying we don't like people from the Indian subcontinent because they are different and Farage, the Mail , the Telegraph and GB News are telling us they are a Starmerite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language...
Poles, in general, don't go for cousin marriage, don't want sharia law, don't do female genital mutilation, don't want to blow me up, don't want to blow kids up, don't put their women in death shrouds, don't refuse to integrate, don't want homosexuals executed, don't want blasphemy laws, and don't commit sexual crimes about 12-20 times the national average (per Danish ethnic/crime data, this month)
So, there is bit of a difference between certain migrant groups. Is there not?
It's interesting how the far right argument against Islam is often "they want to throw queers off the roof you know" (and for all I know, many of them probably do) but it wasn't Muslims calling my partner a t***** or taking away her right to pee in the toilet aligned with the genitalia she possessed at her time of death, either. It was the far right and their fellow travellers.
I agree with you that we don't want to import knuckle-dragging, inbred, misogynists, homophobes and transphobes into the UK en masse, but what do we do about the home grown ones, of which there are many?
I understand that the traditional response is to advocate setting them on fire.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
She can't speak the truth
Her personality traits are arrogance and refusal to apologise for her errors
Argumentative and unable to grasp the fact she's not always right and others aren't always wrong.
In a nutshell a terrifying lack of emotional maturity.
The Violet Elizabeth of UK politics.
She's not as fundamentally evil and insane as Braverman and extreme and nasty as Pritti but that's a fecking very low bar.
Tory polling is stagnant and recent losses to lowest ever Council numbers suggest extermination.
Her complete lack of realism and truth on this perfectly sums her up.
That may be true, and I suspect it is*, but you have ignored my point that our party of choice are equally culpable in their pandering to Reform racists.
* Although don't forget Tories are like cockroaches and they can survive Armageddon.
I really do believe that Shabana is best Home Secretary of recent times, the best Labour Home or Shadow Home Secretary in 2 decades.
I think she's the right person, with the right plan at this moment in time.
Her background I believe adds to her credibility and her management of a very tough brief very strong.
I believe that together with Phillipson she is the most effective current Cabinet Minister.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
Merely because he can laugh at himself doesn't mean he isn't pompous. Arthur Lowe was similar - he made an actual joke of his pomposity.
But of course, as a humble flint knapper you may not fully grasp the nuances of the English language.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
I'd go with Leon on this one.
The Boris issue is not that he is pompous, but that he is an incompetent, superficial, unreliable, morality free, unprincipled, greedy, dishonest, self-serving flibbertigibbert.
Yes. When he got stuck on that zipwire a major opportunity was missed to leave him there.
Why did the Starmer Fan club, total membership 1, get banned this time?
Going full alt right on the race stuff as usual, one imagines. It's a pity because Leon is can be one of the more provocative and interesting posters on a site that genuinely does trend towards groupthink (and thus misses out on even trying to understand why Reform are leading in the polls), but he definitely hit the drinks cabinet early today.
I will leave the irony of him decrying PB dead due to the same old posters posting the same old stuff, then getting banned by lunchtime for -- *checks notes* posting the same old stuff he's been banned for half a dozen times already -- on the table, like the dead cat it is.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Do you think the Lib Dems would do any better if they weren't so insufferably pompous?
No, because it didn't hurt Boris Johnson.
Boris was very many bad things (and a few good things). But he was never pompous. Either you don't understand the English language, or you don't understand human character, or the perception thereof. Boris was anti-pompous, self deprecating, willing to laugh at himself. Remember when he got stuck on the zip wire, waving the Union Jack. A pompous man would have found that unbearable, an insult to his dignity, might have even been a career killer
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
I'm trying to imagine Gordon Brown stuck on that zip-wire.
Nope.
Even better, a tandem with Brown and Farage.
I'd laugh at that. Not sure either of them would...
Yes, Farage is less able to self deprecate than Boris. He can be prickly. Brown was even worse
Blair was good at it. Burnham is, I suspect, pretty good at it. Starmer is not. Thatcher managed to avoid the question through moral greatness
Enoch Powell was once photographed on a pogo stick.
Ted Heath on a skateboard:
(Now he WAS a pompous so and so - from a friend who's orchestra he once conducted.)
Comments
I’ve warmed to her in recent months and suspect that a lot of the public might come to rue their apparent appetite to get rid of both the PM and the Chancellor when they see what comes after .
Looking at Burnhams campaign launch . It was a load of vacuous talking points which we’ve seen wheeled out before. My leftie bingo card was quickly filled up with status quo , de-industrialisation, Thatcherite etc.
I suspect when the shine comes off and Burnham has to make decisions that annoy people that his approval ratings will soon plummet .
That’s not to say he’s a better communicator but there’s only so much spin you can do when there’s no money and the UK economy is about to hit big trouble .
Owing to the forecast high temperatures, MCC has decided to dispense with the requirement for gentlemen to wear jackets in the Pavilion for the Blast match between Middlesex and Surrey on the day of Sunday 24 May. This applies to Members of MCC and Middlesex and their guests.
https://x.com/MCCOfficial/status/2058087213116596628?s=20
It did not appear particularly successful.
If you had 500k to invest, with *the aim* of turning that into 50m in the next 3 years, would you a) do that in the UK where tax is currently 24% and mooted to be raised to 45% with limited relief around the margins and probable exit tax (and to Foxy's _very_ valid point, a constantly changing and unstable regulatory environment?) or would you invest it somewhere that has been a flat 20% for the last 40 years and will likely continue to be?
So even if your business "fails" and only becomes worth 1m (and you sell it for 1m and try agian, which is what most of the "serial entrepreneurs" I know do) the point is if you're aiming for a 50m valuation every time, you set up in the country that will be optimal for that to maximise your gains if you do hit it big? I would not be looking to set up a business at all in the UK right now for the above reasons.
Fundamentally that our political class do not understand not only economics but also behavioural economics just leaves me pounding my head against the wall in frustration.
Vladimir Putin has promised retaliation after accusing Ukraine of carrying out a deadly attack on a student dormitory in an occupied part of eastern Ukraine.
Ten people were killed and 38 others injured in the overnight strike in the town of Starobilsk, in the Luhansk region, the local Russian-backed governor said. Another 11 people remain missing, he said.
Ukraine's military said it had hit the headquarters of Russia's elite Rubicon drone military unit in Starobilsk. It did not say whether it was the same building as the one identified by Russia.
But Putin said there were "no military facilities, intelligence service facilities or related services in the vicinity".
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y74lwx395o
I might have a Marathon Bar on the way there.
That would of course be a war crime on the part of Russia.
Basically it is very very hard to scale a business in the UK from getting investment, turn over taxes, potential exit, etc. There is also a culture in the UK compared to the US which far too often the people who do scale a business sell and then take their money, perhaps do a bit of angel investing here or there, but protect their wealth is number one priority.
Where as the Americans are much more lets go again, they are willing to keep putting large amount of their capital on the line time and time again.
I think BADR is too low at £1 million, £10 million I think was ok, but maybe somewhere in the middle is fine. I wonder if there is a way to incentize that those willing to take their payouts and go backing British businesses from that money.
https://www.smeweb.com/uk-ranks-second-in-global-start-up-ecosystem-league-table-for-sixth-consecutive-year/
Is Starship proves an unusable dead end...
(Although if Russia wanted to be helpful, could they please tell the Ukrainians that their HQs are in or near the DfE?)
That is a really clunky slogan and terrible use of the English language.
She is the most qualified of recent Chancellors despite the pathetic smears of the Right and deserves a chance to stabilise the utter shit show she inherited and to continue to have the vital market support she has.
Do you think Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022?
Has Reeves ever been responsible for creating a job or fostering business in her life? Or has she been a perpetual PAYE recipient? I'd say she is uniquely unqualified to be CoE...
'So focus groups keep saying that politicians aren't helping 'people like us'......'
We Brexited because we didn't like Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. They were getting in the way of our kids's education, they were always Infront of us in the queue for the GP. Ironically they were very much in character with immigrants from Ireland from the last century, and the one before that (we didn't like them either). So we voted Brexit to send them home, despite the fact that within a generation they would have integrated in every way and we wouldn't have been able to tell whether their ancestors came from Warsaw or Walsall. Still, we didn't want them anyway, they sounded different to us and we sent them packing. Farage, the Mail and the Telegraph told us it was all a Blairite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language. And now we are saying we don't like people from the Indian subcontinent because they are different and Farage, the Mail , the Telegraph and GB News are telling us they are a Starmerite conspiracy to undermine Blighty, Englishness and the English language...
It was 2014.
Yes, you can vote for who you'd like to do it but in the end it's reality in the real world all of them have to deal with and, if they don't, they fail fast.
So, there is bit of a difference between certain migrant groups. Is there not?
I am quite comfortable to accept that those girls at school in Tehran were victims of a terrible fog of war mistake during a hostile attempt to overthrow the Iranian Government. However criticism can be aimed at the US, because despite having more up-to-date intel they were using twenty year old data for their attack.
He is also quite extraordinarily boring and pompous. Sending him away with a quick F bomb is the best method with these people
LDs struggle with that.
I wonder what the prospects are for Rupert splitting off some components of Reform's support coalition?
And how much of that exists in the Reform base?
Boris was able to laugh it off and actually make himself a bit more likeable, because he is NOT pompous. That was an essential part of his USPs
As you are he
As you are me
And we are all together..
The statement of a retard
Nope.
Even better, a tandem with Brown and Farage.
I'd laugh at that. Not sure either of them would...
@Cicero is admitting that Yes, he is insufferably pompous, like most Lib Dems, he's just saying that he doesn't care: Meh
As Simone Weil said, in the opening chapter of Gravity and Grace: "One should always applaud a soul that moves to greater self awareness, especially if they are a total cock"
Blair was good at it. Burnham is, I suspect, pretty good at it. Starmer is not. Thatcher managed to avoid the question through moral greatness
But not much.
That of superiority.
Still not up to taking the bet though are you? C'mon Susan, just f*cking do it.
Otherwise the nasty man is going to keep being nasty to you until you accept that not taking the bet makes you a weak kneed sad case, typical of the near geriatric late baby boomers
If you’re thinking Starmer campaigning for his sworn opponent in a by-election is unprecedented you’re absolutely wrong! Here’s Dennis Healey campaigning for Tony Benn in the 1984 Chesterfield by-election..
https://x.com/BrynHGriffiths/status/2058089823093612860
Everyone is probably snobbish in some way - it's like racism, or flatulence. An unfortunate flaw in the human condition
But Cam and Oz are a bit more snobbish than most
The Boris issue is not that he is pompous, but that he is an incompetent, superficial, unreliable, morality free, unprincipled, greedy, dishonest, self-serving flibbertigibbert.
It's quite bizarre to accuse Bozza of the one thing he really really wasn't, it's like saying "that fucking Hitler, with his constant smoking, I hate him"
But obviously an extremely good poster and by some measure cleverer than almost anyone on here. You take the rough with the smooth.
Unless the joke is on us?
But of course, as a humble flint knapper you may not fully grasp the nuances of the English language.
Which is the point I was making.
Although I was also noting it wasn't an issue, which brings us back to CR's point still not being correct.
"I'm for myself. I'm for myself."
I agree with you that we don't want to import knuckle-dragging, inbred, misogynists, homophobes and transphobes into the UK en masse, but what do we do about the home grown ones, of which there are many?
I think she's the right person, with the right plan at this moment in time.
Her background I believe adds to her credibility and her management of a very tough brief very strong.
I believe that together with Phillipson she is the most effective current Cabinet Minister.
"France suspends extra EU border checks at Dover after bank holiday queues"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cvgz43lwvd9t
I will leave the irony of him decrying PB dead due to the same old posters posting the same old stuff, then getting banned by lunchtime for -- *checks notes* posting the same old stuff he's been banned for half a dozen times already -- on the table, like the dead cat it is.
(Now he WAS a pompous so and so - from a friend who's orchestra he once conducted.)