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Why abolishing the triple lock would be political suicide – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    I've spent my whole political life being told by right-wingers that the country was going to be bankrupted by lefties voting for higher government handouts and I should be amused that instead it's going to be bankrupted by right-wing voting pensioners, but I can't take any comfort from my antagonists being proved wrong.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,676

    private sector: −377,000 jobs, 3.0% wage growth
    state-funded sectors: +114,000. 4.8% wage growth.

    https://x.com/ColeFusionHQ/status/2056628397221048660?s=20

    I've just left the private sector and joined the public sector. The NHS, in fact.

    It simply wasn't worth it in the private sector anymore. Just taxed too much for too much stress.
    Nice one! I'm going to my front gate right now to bang a pan for you.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726
    Taz said:

    The ‘kamikaze dolphin’ unit that could help re-open the Strait of Hormuz
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2026/05/19/dolphins-pentagon-kamikaze-strait-of-hormuz-hegseth/

    Sadly this no longer exists in the archive. But from 1972

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0564474/
    One of the Bill Bailey standup DVDs has quite a nice joke about ex-military dolphins being used for dolphin encounters.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,791
    Chelsea score.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,027
    DavidL said:

    I am 64 (although not yet losing my hair), not too far off my pension now and I think the triple lock is ridiculous and needs to stop. Pensioners are a very mixed group. Some are genuinely poor but many, more certainly, are very comfortable indeed. In spending our limited resources on those that are comfortable we leave less for those that are not and unfairly increase the burden on those paying for it.

    Personally, I would go much further. Those whose pensions are, say, 2x average incomes (not completely fixed on what the limit should be), should not get the State pension at all. It needs to be means tested, albeit on a generous scale to stop discouraging those who might lose out from saving for a pension.

    Our State commitments are simply unaffordable. We need to find a lot of different ways of cutting the obligations so that they fall in line with the taxes we are willing to pay. This, in my view, is where we start.

    I mean, the trouble is the private sector cost of replicating an inflation-linked full state pension for a married couple is in the order of £450k (according to Gemini calculation that looks plausible).

    That is a huge cliff edge to means test. Especially as any fair means test would need to look at total wealth not just pension or other income.

    I think the state pension forms part of our social contract and shouldn't be means tested. Better to reduce it and add a means tested top-up benefits for those who need it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    So, it begins...


    caroline wheeler
    @cazjwheeler

    NEW: Cabinet ministers are scrambling to secure positions in a future Andy Burnham government after his selection triggered what one Labour insider described as a full-scale “race for jobs” inside the party.

    Senior ministers are preparing visits to Makerfield amid growing expectations in Westminster that Burnham could ultimately take the Labour leadership – and with it the power to appoint the next Cabinet.

    https://x.com/cazjwheeler/status/2056801406095421919
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949

    So, it begins...


    caroline wheeler
    @cazjwheeler

    NEW: Cabinet ministers are scrambling to secure positions in a future Andy Burnham government after his selection triggered what one Labour insider described as a full-scale “race for jobs” inside the party.

    Senior ministers are preparing visits to Makerfield amid growing expectations in Westminster that Burnham could ultimately take the Labour leadership – and with it the power to appoint the next Cabinet.

    https://x.com/cazjwheeler/status/2056801406095421919

    Kiss the ring.....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,884
    Have to say Bournemouth are a good team to watch. Very slick football.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 19
    DavidL said:

    Have to say Bournemouth are a good team to watch. Very slick football.

    I don't think teams fear Man City quite like they used to. A couple of seasons ago most teams were first and foremost parking the bus shit scared of getting ripped apart by Man City attack.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424

    So, it begins...


    caroline wheeler
    @cazjwheeler

    NEW: Cabinet ministers are scrambling to secure positions in a future Andy Burnham government after his selection triggered what one Labour insider described as a full-scale “race for jobs” inside the party.

    Senior ministers are preparing visits to Makerfield amid growing expectations in Westminster that Burnham could ultimately take the Labour leadership – and with it the power to appoint the next Cabinet.

    https://x.com/cazjwheeler/status/2056801406095421919

    Of course he will. Leon, last to every match, is almost the only one who can’t see it. Burnham is as good as our PM already, the only question being whether Labour is foolish and self-destructive enough to put us through an extended summer contest, or whether he gets handed the crown with the minimum of fuss, once he’s won his by-election.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,865
    Ratters said:

    DavidL said:

    I am 64 (although not yet losing my hair), not too far off my pension now and I think the triple lock is ridiculous and needs to stop. Pensioners are a very mixed group. Some are genuinely poor but many, more certainly, are very comfortable indeed. In spending our limited resources on those that are comfortable we leave less for those that are not and unfairly increase the burden on those paying for it.

    Personally, I would go much further. Those whose pensions are, say, 2x average incomes (not completely fixed on what the limit should be), should not get the State pension at all. It needs to be means tested, albeit on a generous scale to stop discouraging those who might lose out from saving for a pension.

    Our State commitments are simply unaffordable. We need to find a lot of different ways of cutting the obligations so that they fall in line with the taxes we are willing to pay. This, in my view, is where we start.

    I mean, the trouble is the private sector cost of replicating an inflation-linked full state pension for a married couple is in the order of £450k (according to Gemini calculation that looks plausible).

    That is a huge cliff edge to means test. Especially as any fair means test would need to look at total wealth not just pension or other income.

    I think the state pension forms part of our social contract and shouldn't be means tested. Better to reduce it and add a means tested top-up benefits for those who need it.
    Just increase the state pension by CPI only. Private defined benefit schemes typically only go up by CPI often with a low CPI cap. Defined contribution/money purchase schemes have no explicit link to inflation at all.
  • So, it begins...


    caroline wheeler
    @cazjwheeler

    NEW: Cabinet ministers are scrambling to secure positions in a future Andy Burnham government after his selection triggered what one Labour insider described as a full-scale “race for jobs” inside the party.

    Senior ministers are preparing visits to Makerfield amid growing expectations in Westminster that Burnham could ultimately take the Labour leadership – and with it the power to appoint the next Cabinet.

    https://x.com/cazjwheeler/status/2056801406095421919

    I am confident it’s going to be an extremely short leadership contest.

    Lammy’s jury changes out, Chagos out for good, improved comms, I guess we will see quickly if that is a good start and whether Starmer really is dragging Labour down.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,884

    DavidL said:

    Have to say Bournemouth are a good team to watch. Very slick football.

    I don't think teams fear Man City quite like they used to. A couple of seasons ago most teams were first and foremost parking the bus shit scared of getting ripped apart by Man City attack.
    Yes, I agree. They miss de Bruyne terribly. His passing and vision made them so much more dangerous. Foden really should have been his creative replacement but he's had a very ordinary season by his high standards.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,082
    DavidL said:

    Have to say Bournemouth are a good team to watch. Very slick football.

    They’re playing for a possible Champions League place if Liverpool slip up on Sunday. I hope they make it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 19
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Have to say Bournemouth are a good team to watch. Very slick football.

    I don't think teams fear Man City quite like they used to. A couple of seasons ago most teams were first and foremost parking the bus shit scared of getting ripped apart by Man City attack.
    Yes, I agree. They miss de Bruyne terribly. His passing and vision made them so much more dangerous. Foden really should have been his creative replacement but he's had a very ordinary season by his high standards.
    Its was alluded to earlier in the season that there is something going on off the pitch with Foden. He was obviously a naughty boy on England duty once, but after that seems to be very steady lad with family etc.

    I have no idea what it is, but there has lots of talk of players getting addicted to sleeping pills and painkillers.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 19
    IanB2 said:

    So, it begins...


    caroline wheeler
    @cazjwheeler

    NEW: Cabinet ministers are scrambling to secure positions in a future Andy Burnham government after his selection triggered what one Labour insider described as a full-scale “race for jobs” inside the party.

    Senior ministers are preparing visits to Makerfield amid growing expectations in Westminster that Burnham could ultimately take the Labour leadership – and with it the power to appoint the next Cabinet.

    https://x.com/cazjwheeler/status/2056801406095421919

    Of course he will. Leon, last to every match, is almost the only one who can’t see it. Burnham is as good as our PM already, the only question being whether Labour is foolish and self-destructive enough to put us through an extended summer contest, or whether he gets handed the crown with the minimum of fuss, once he’s won his by-election.
    And, yet again, you raise my name for no reason at all, in a conversation where I have been absent, and in a context where I am almost irrelevant

    It's fucking weird. Do you have a small shrine of me in your Ventnor bungalow, a photo of me in a Whitby jet frame, surrounded by burning black candles, ancient Coptic crosses, and piles of eerie dead songbirds?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,884
    Ratters said:

    DavidL said:

    I am 64 (although not yet losing my hair), not too far off my pension now and I think the triple lock is ridiculous and needs to stop. Pensioners are a very mixed group. Some are genuinely poor but many, more certainly, are very comfortable indeed. In spending our limited resources on those that are comfortable we leave less for those that are not and unfairly increase the burden on those paying for it.

    Personally, I would go much further. Those whose pensions are, say, 2x average incomes (not completely fixed on what the limit should be), should not get the State pension at all. It needs to be means tested, albeit on a generous scale to stop discouraging those who might lose out from saving for a pension.

    Our State commitments are simply unaffordable. We need to find a lot of different ways of cutting the obligations so that they fall in line with the taxes we are willing to pay. This, in my view, is where we start.

    I mean, the trouble is the private sector cost of replicating an inflation-linked full state pension for a married couple is in the order of £450k (according to Gemini calculation that looks plausible).

    That is a huge cliff edge to means test. Especially as any fair means test would need to look at total wealth not just pension or other income.

    I think the state pension forms part of our social contract and shouldn't be means tested. Better to reduce it and add a means tested top-up benefits for those who need it.
    It doesn't have to be an absolute cliff edge. You could have a taper. But your figure shows the absurdity of the present position. Most people are given a pension at 67 or whatever which is worth far more than they have paid into the system in their entire working life.
  • Stats for Lefties is run by a proper weirdo. Can we please stop posting Tweets
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 19
    Grant Shapps quits aerospace firm after watchdog probe

    He said he had had no involvement in the deal or the company's military work and, despite a title of "chairman", had not chaired its board or been a director, but was "one of several co-founders".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgzjlqv1q9o

    Was a Mr Micheal Green the chair of these board meetings?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,609
    Trump's DOJ just proclaimed the entire Trump clan exempt from any investigation by the IRS.

    BLANCHE: "The United States...is hereby FOREVER BARRED and PRECLUDED from prosecuting or pursuing...examinations or similar or related reviews" against Trump "or related or affiliated individuals," including family members or related companies and trusts.
    https://x.com/TylerMcBrien/status/2056802063854576007
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559

    eek said:

    Up the boro

    I'm a Boro fan and I feel a bit embarrassed by this to be honest.
    Hey it's not Boro's fault that their opponent broke the rules..
    As a fan you like to see your team do it on the pitch, rather than the tribunal.

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2056806522168983806

    WATCH: Laila Cunningham says the "perception" of Reform in London is "very polarised"

    "I went to a basketball court with some kids... said I'm running to be London Mayor. They said oh sh*t, you're running for Reform? You're going to deport my mum! I said what? No!"

    What's that saying about lying down with dogs?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,959
    edited May 19
    Ratters said:

    DavidL said:

    I am 64 (although not yet losing my hair), not too far off my pension now and I think the triple lock is ridiculous and needs to stop. Pensioners are a very mixed group. Some are genuinely poor but many, more certainly, are very comfortable indeed. In spending our limited resources on those that are comfortable we leave less for those that are not and unfairly increase the burden on those paying for it.

    Personally, I would go much further. Those whose pensions are, say, 2x average incomes (not completely fixed on what the limit should be), should not get the State pension at all. It needs to be means tested, albeit on a generous scale to stop discouraging those who might lose out from saving for a pension.

    Our State commitments are simply unaffordable. We need to find a lot of different ways of cutting the obligations so that they fall in line with the taxes we are willing to pay. This, in my view, is where we start.

    I mean, the trouble is the private sector cost of replicating an inflation-linked full state pension for a married couple is in the order of £450k (according to Gemini calculation that looks plausible).

    That is a huge cliff edge to means test. Especially as any fair means test would need to look at total wealth not just pension or other income.

    I think the state pension forms part of our social contract and shouldn't be means tested. Better to reduce it and add a means tested top-up benefits for those who need it.
    All well if you are wedged up say it has to stop. Its still a pittance in comparison with what it costs to live.
    Perhaps deduct £ for£ if you earnings are greater than?? Say 50k????
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 19
    HS2 is grim enough by itself, but it is also symptomatic of a much deeper, grislier malaise in the UK body politic

    We are now in a much worse place than we were in the late 70s, when Thatcher rode in to save the day
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 19

    HS2 is grim enough by itself, but it is also symptomatic of a much deeper, grislier malaise in the UK body politic

    We are now in a much worse place than we were in the late 70s, when Thatcher rode in to save the day

    Its not just HS2, Hinkley point still miles off being done and not just the UK. I was talking to a German friend the other day and he was saying same sort of things are happening there when it comes to building big infrastructure projects.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 19
    The real AI video benchmark we need is to give each generated golf swing a handicap. This is Gemini Omni, and I'm giving it a 24.

    https://x.com/Rengle820/status/2056800886396010890?s=20

    This is actually really bad, given there are huge amount of golf swings on the internet. It switches from an iron to a driver and then the model hasn't worked out the guy is swinging a driver off a tee and so there won't be a divot. The swing itself is also weird.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093
    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093

    DavidL said:

    Have to say Bournemouth are a good team to watch. Very slick football.

    They’re playing for a possible Champions League place if Liverpool slip up on Sunday. I hope they make it.
    Is their stadium suitable ?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    edited May 19
    We're getting to the stage with this "local candidate" business where ever having been spotted outside the constituency will disqualify you as a candidate.
    I do accept Makerfield is perhaps a little more insular than most.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    Up the boro

    I'm a Boro fan and I feel a bit embarrassed by this to be honest.
    Hey it's not Boro's fault that their opponent broke the rules..
    As a fan you like to see your team do it on the pitch, rather than the tribunal.

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2056806522168983806

    WATCH: Laila Cunningham says the "perception" of Reform in London is "very polarised"

    "I went to a basketball court with some kids... said I'm running to be London Mayor. They said oh sh*t, you're running for Reform? You're going to deport my mum! I said what? No!"

    What's that saying about lying down with dogs?
    Warm and comforting?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Have to say Bournemouth are a good team to watch. Very slick football.

    They’re playing for a possible Champions League place if Liverpool slip up on Sunday. I hope they make it.
    Is their stadium suitable ?
    They can always use St. Mary's.
    They'll need the money.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    To be fair @Taz, the election was more than a week ago.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,884

    So, it begins...


    caroline wheeler
    @cazjwheeler

    NEW: Cabinet ministers are scrambling to secure positions in a future Andy Burnham government after his selection triggered what one Labour insider described as a full-scale “race for jobs” inside the party.

    Senior ministers are preparing visits to Makerfield amid growing expectations in Westminster that Burnham could ultimately take the Labour leadership – and with it the power to appoint the next Cabinet.

    https://x.com/cazjwheeler/status/2056801406095421919

    Any hint of authority or power is drifting away from Starmer at a remarkable pace. Ever since Streeting pointed out the Emperor really had no clothes its been a total collapse. Even if Burnham doesn't make it Starmer is surely finished.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,375

    HS2 is grim enough by itself, but it is also symptomatic of a much deeper, grislier malaise in the UK body politic

    We are now in a much worse place than we were in the late 70s, when Thatcher rode in to save the day

    Its not just HS2, Hinkley point still miles off being done and not just the UK. I was talking to a German friend the other day and he was saying same sort of things are happening there when it comes to building big infrastructure projects.
    Yet in the 70's-80's, the private sector could build a town on stilts in the North Sea, capable of withstanding the once-in-a-century wave - with no risk of cost overruns breaking 10%.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 19
    Ouch. China eating their Currywurst? It does back up what my German mate was saying to me. He is recently on the job market, highly qualified and finding it hard to get something.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,627
    dixiedean said:

    We're getting to the stage with this "local candidate" business where ever having been spotted outside the constituency will disqualify you as a candidate.
    I do accept Makerfield is perhaps a little more insular than most.

    There was a poet guy originating from Makerfield on Monty Don's BBC2 Chelsea flower show just now.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,542
    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 19

    HS2 is grim enough by itself, but it is also symptomatic of a much deeper, grislier malaise in the UK body politic

    We are now in a much worse place than we were in the late 70s, when Thatcher rode in to save the day

    Its not just HS2, Hinkley point still miles off being done and not just the UK. I was talking to a German friend the other day and he was saying same sort of things are happening there when it comes to building big infrastructure projects.
    Maybe societies. cultures, civilisations, simply tip into helpless decline, like the Romans, and there is nothing to be done. They lose something without realising: that inner self confidence, that sense of purposeful identity. Britain, the uniquely brilliant nation that invented the railway, cannot build a railway. Germany, the home of great engineering and remarkable science, struggles to erect an airport. Italy, where they supposedly love babies, has no babies



  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,082

    HS2 is grim enough by itself, but it is also symptomatic of a much deeper, grislier malaise in the UK body politic

    We are now in a much worse place than we were in the late 70s, when Thatcher rode in to save the day

    Its not just HS2, Hinkley point still miles off being done and not just the UK. I was talking to a German friend the other day and he was saying same sort of things are happening there when it comes to building big infrastructure projects.
    Yet in the 70's-80's, the private sector could build a town on stilts in the North Sea, capable of withstanding the once-in-a-century wave - with no risk of cost overruns breaking 10%.
    Was that before the consultancy industry was invented?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,676
    dixiedean said:

    We're getting to the stage with this "local candidate" business where ever having been spotted outside the constituency will disqualify you as a candidate.
    I do accept Makerfield is perhaps a little more insular than most.

    In creepy voice ... local pols for local people
  • DavidL said:

    So, it begins...


    caroline wheeler
    @cazjwheeler

    NEW: Cabinet ministers are scrambling to secure positions in a future Andy Burnham government after his selection triggered what one Labour insider described as a full-scale “race for jobs” inside the party.

    Senior ministers are preparing visits to Makerfield amid growing expectations in Westminster that Burnham could ultimately take the Labour leadership – and with it the power to appoint the next Cabinet.

    https://x.com/cazjwheeler/status/2056801406095421919

    Any hint of authority or power is drifting away from Starmer at a remarkable pace. Ever since Streeting pointed out the Emperor really had no clothes its been a total collapse. Even if Burnham doesn't make it Starmer is surely finished.
    Yes, I agree

    Even if Burnham fails at the BE, Rayner or Miliband or someone will surely challenge, and win
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133
    DavidL said:

    Ratters said:

    DavidL said:

    I am 64 (although not yet losing my hair), not too far off my pension now and I think the triple lock is ridiculous and needs to stop. Pensioners are a very mixed group. Some are genuinely poor but many, more certainly, are very comfortable indeed. In spending our limited resources on those that are comfortable we leave less for those that are not and unfairly increase the burden on those paying for it.

    Personally, I would go much further. Those whose pensions are, say, 2x average incomes (not completely fixed on what the limit should be), should not get the State pension at all. It needs to be means tested, albeit on a generous scale to stop discouraging those who might lose out from saving for a pension.

    Our State commitments are simply unaffordable. We need to find a lot of different ways of cutting the obligations so that they fall in line with the taxes we are willing to pay. This, in my view, is where we start.

    I mean, the trouble is the private sector cost of replicating an inflation-linked full state pension for a married couple is in the order of £450k (according to Gemini calculation that looks plausible).

    That is a huge cliff edge to means test. Especially as any fair means test would need to look at total wealth not just pension or other income.

    I think the state pension forms part of our social contract and shouldn't be means tested. Better to reduce it and add a means tested top-up benefits for those who need it.
    It doesn't have to be an absolute cliff edge. You could have a taper. But your figure shows the absurdity of the present position. Most people are given a pension at 67 or whatever which is worth far more than they have paid into the system in their entire working life.
    It's not a fund, it's always been paid out of current tax receipts, so mainly paid by the working population to the ceased working population.

    Easy to work out the commercial cost, it's the price of a £12k index linked annuity, cheaper for the state to provide as there's no one taking a cut.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    Activists and agents can sometimes grossly overestimate how much they know about electoral administration, and get lazy. The ones who do know what they are doing are very useful indeed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 19

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726
    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    So 1.3 % and 0.3 % respectively.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,947
    DavidL said:

    Ratters said:

    DavidL said:

    I am 64 (although not yet losing my hair), not too far off my pension now and I think the triple lock is ridiculous and needs to stop. Pensioners are a very mixed group. Some are genuinely poor but many, more certainly, are very comfortable indeed. In spending our limited resources on those that are comfortable we leave less for those that are not and unfairly increase the burden on those paying for it.

    Personally, I would go much further. Those whose pensions are, say, 2x average incomes (not completely fixed on what the limit should be), should not get the State pension at all. It needs to be means tested, albeit on a generous scale to stop discouraging those who might lose out from saving for a pension.

    Our State commitments are simply unaffordable. We need to find a lot of different ways of cutting the obligations so that they fall in line with the taxes we are willing to pay. This, in my view, is where we start.

    I mean, the trouble is the private sector cost of replicating an inflation-linked full state pension for a married couple is in the order of £450k (according to Gemini calculation that looks plausible).

    That is a huge cliff edge to means test. Especially as any fair means test would need to look at total wealth not just pension or other income.

    I think the state pension forms part of our social contract and shouldn't be means tested. Better to reduce it and add a means tested top-up benefits for those who need it.
    It doesn't have to be an absolute cliff edge. You could have a taper. But your figure shows the absurdity of the present position. Most people are given a pension at 67 or whatever which is worth far more than they have paid into the system in their entire working life.
    Could the average person afford half a million over a lifetime? Seems unlikely with housing costs being what they are. You might as well scrap the state pension and have a generous pension credit scheme for most and a taper for those higher earners.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    geoffw said:

    dixiedean said:

    We're getting to the stage with this "local candidate" business where ever having been spotted outside the constituency will disqualify you as a candidate.
    I do accept Makerfield is perhaps a little more insular than most.

    There was a poet guy originating from Makerfield on Monty Don's BBC2 Chelsea flower show just now.
    Lemn Sissy.
    Really heartbreaking story of his early life.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemn_Sissay
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    DavidL said:

    So, it begins...


    caroline wheeler
    @cazjwheeler

    NEW: Cabinet ministers are scrambling to secure positions in a future Andy Burnham government after his selection triggered what one Labour insider described as a full-scale “race for jobs” inside the party.

    Senior ministers are preparing visits to Makerfield amid growing expectations in Westminster that Burnham could ultimately take the Labour leadership – and with it the power to appoint the next Cabinet.

    https://x.com/cazjwheeler/status/2056801406095421919

    Any hint of authority or power is drifting away from Starmer at a remarkable pace. Ever since Streeting pointed out the Emperor really had no clothes its been a total collapse. Even if Burnham doesn't make it Starmer is surely finished.
    Yes, I kind of feel bad for him. I feel like he will just set out a timetable to go when Andy is elected as the 'dignified' option, even though I think he should insist upon an actual challenge - no one is fooled by such exits, it would be absolutely clear he was forced out, so at least get those who want you gone be forced to put their names down in writing for it, and make the ouster work for it.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,542

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    If you are employed buy the council you can't be on it. Conflict of interest.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    If you are employed buy the council you can't be on it. Conflict of interest.
    So what if you are employed by a Multi-Academy Trust? Is that ok?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133
    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    Up the boro

    I'm a Boro fan and I feel a bit embarrassed by this to be honest.
    Hey it's not Boro's fault that their opponent broke the rules..
    As a fan you like to see your team do it on the pitch, rather than the tribunal.

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2056806522168983806

    WATCH: Laila Cunningham says the "perception" of Reform in London is "very polarised"

    "I went to a basketball court with some kids... said I'm running to be London Mayor. They said oh sh*t, you're running for Reform? You're going to deport my mum! I said what? No!"

    What's that saying about lying down with dogs?
    State education in inner London outperforms the rest of the UK
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    Foss said:

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    So 1.3 % and 0.3 % respectively.
    It's hard to say what the 'correct' percentage should be, but given how rarely such things are reported those numbers, particularly the Green one (which looks a little high?) are probably still significant.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    edited May 19

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    If you work for a maintained school you are paid by the LA. I used to work for the Council that way.
    And are therefore an employee. (Assuming you've been elected to the same council I think).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    If you are employed buy the council you can't be on it. Conflict of interest.
    So what if you are employed by a Multi-Academy Trust? Is that ok?
    Yes.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,177

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    Because you would be kinda your own boss, as teachers work for the council, kind of.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,865
    City have done it before...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 19
    Delete....Think fallen for spoof account.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,542

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    If you are employed buy the council you can't be on it. Conflict of interest.
    So what if you are employed by a Multi-Academy Trust? Is that ok?
    Yep
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,139
    Great effort by Bournemouth considering their "natural" place in the pyramid should be about halfway up league 1
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,127
    Well done Arsenal
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    If you work for a maintained school you are paid by the LA. I used to work for the Council that way.
    And are therefore an employee. (Assuming you've been elected to the same council I think).
    What if you’re a temp, via an agency ?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    If you work for a maintained school you are paid by the LA. I used to work for the Council that way.
    And are therefore an employee. (Assuming you've been elected to the same council I think).
    What if you’re a temp, via an agency ?
    Then you are employed by and paid by the Agency I guess. Always was that way on my payslips.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,444
    Nigelb said:

    Trump's DOJ just proclaimed the entire Trump clan exempt from any investigation by the IRS.

    BLANCHE: "The United States...is hereby FOREVER BARRED and PRECLUDED from prosecuting or pursuing...examinations or similar or related reviews" against Trump "or related or affiliated individuals," including family members or related companies and trusts.
    https://x.com/TylerMcBrien/status/2056802063854576007

    Doesn't the USA have a proviso that no government can bind a later one?
  • UP THE ARSE!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794

    UP THE ARSE!!

    Not right now.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559

    UP THE ARSE!!

    Hence the capital letters?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,676

    Well done Arsenal

    That should cheer Keir up a bit.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834

    Ouch. China eating their Currywurst? It does back up what my German mate was saying to me. He is recently on the job market, highly qualified and finding it hard to get something.
    The 2030s might look like the 1930s at this rate.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    A disabled man says he has been left "rotting away" in hospital for the last eight months after his local NHS board stopped his 24-hour home support.

    Ravi Mehta, who has a life-limiting disability, was admitted to hospital in September 2025 for a routine appointment to fix his ventilator settings. He was supposed to go home three days later - but months on he is still stuck in a hospital ward.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2e2zvlyy38o
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    kinabalu said:

    Well done Arsenal

    That should cheer Keir up a bit.
    Piers Moron is going to be more unbareable then normal.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,542
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    If you work for a maintained school you are paid by the LA. I used to work for the Council that way.
    And are therefore an employee. (Assuming you've been elected to the same council I think).
    What if you’re a temp, via an agency ?
    Who pays you or whose the contract with?
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726
    edited May 19
    kle4 said:

    Foss said:

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    So 1.3 % and 0.3 % respectively.
    It's hard to say what the 'correct' percentage should be, but given how rarely such things are reported those numbers, particularly the Green one (which looks a little high?) are probably still significant.
    In the four months after the 2025 locals, there were 6 by elections against 1,641 elected - or about 0.3%. In a week we're up to 13 against 5,066 elected or about 0.25%.

    The really useful analysis would be the failure rate of new blood, but that info doesn't look to have been collated anywhere.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Everyone's getting a bit ahead of themselves re Burnham winning.
    My aged Ma opines (our woman on the spot)

    "It's a bit of a brave gamble as it will be no pushover. But he's really, really popular round here. I hope he wins but it isn't certain."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,832
    Pulpstar said:

    Great effort by Bournemouth considering their "natural" place in the pyramid should be about halfway up league 1

    Todays result shows that isn't true. Not unless you think Man City belong there too.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133
    kinabalu said:

    Well done Arsenal

    That should cheer Keir up a bit.
    Well done Bournemouth!!

    Arsenal avoid the inevitable pratfall of dropping points at Palace and being 2nd.
    So if Spurs pull it back against Chelsea that's nothing to play for Sunday
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148

    Stats for Lefties is run by a proper weirdo. Can we please stop posting Tweets

    His/her statistics are very good but everything else they post is definitely a bit strange to put it midly.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,354
    Dopermean said:

    DavidL said:

    Ratters said:

    DavidL said:

    I am 64 (although not yet losing my hair), not too far off my pension now and I think the triple lock is ridiculous and needs to stop. Pensioners are a very mixed group. Some are genuinely poor but many, more certainly, are very comfortable indeed. In spending our limited resources on those that are comfortable we leave less for those that are not and unfairly increase the burden on those paying for it.

    Personally, I would go much further. Those whose pensions are, say, 2x average incomes (not completely fixed on what the limit should be), should not get the State pension at all. It needs to be means tested, albeit on a generous scale to stop discouraging those who might lose out from saving for a pension.

    Our State commitments are simply unaffordable. We need to find a lot of different ways of cutting the obligations so that they fall in line with the taxes we are willing to pay. This, in my view, is where we start.

    I mean, the trouble is the private sector cost of replicating an inflation-linked full state pension for a married couple is in the order of £450k (according to Gemini calculation that looks plausible).

    That is a huge cliff edge to means test. Especially as any fair means test would need to look at total wealth not just pension or other income.

    I think the state pension forms part of our social contract and shouldn't be means tested. Better to reduce it and add a means tested top-up benefits for those who need it.
    It doesn't have to be an absolute cliff edge. You could have a taper. But your figure shows the absurdity of the present position. Most people are given a pension at 67 or whatever which is worth far more than they have paid into the system in their entire working life.
    It's not a fund, it's always been paid out of current tax receipts, so mainly paid by the working population to the ceased working population.

    Easy to work out the commercial cost, it's the price of a £12k index linked annuity, cheaper for the state to provide as there's no one taking a cut.
    Believe its about £250k at the moment.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,467

    HS2 is grim enough by itself, but it is also symptomatic of a much deeper, grislier malaise in the UK body politic

    We are now in a much worse place than we were in the late 70s, when Thatcher rode in to save the day

    Except it was her destroying the public sector in favour of private deals that has led to the total collapse of public administration.

    The Tories have much to answer for here
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 19
    Andy_JS said:

    Stats for Lefties is run by a proper weirdo. Can we please stop posting Tweets

    His/her statistics are very good but everything else they post is definitely a bit strange to put it midly.
    They cam be very naughty about how they report polls / subsamples of polls.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well done Arsenal

    That should cheer Keir up a bit.
    Well done Bournemouth!!

    Arsenal avoid the inevitable pratfall of dropping points at Palace and being 2nd.
    So if Spurs pull it back against Chelsea that's nothing to play for Sunday
    Apart from three European places of course.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,428
    Spurs still losing
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    If you work for a maintained school you are paid by the LA. I used to work for the Council that way.
    And are therefore an employee. (Assuming you've been elected to the same council I think).
    What if you’re a temp, via an agency ?
    Who pays you or whose the contract with?
    The contract would be with the agency who’d pay you either directly or via Ltd co/Brolly.

    Presumably in that case as an agency worker they could be a councillor ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,127
    edited May 19
    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well done Arsenal

    That should cheer Keir up a bit.
    Well done Bournemouth!!

    Arsenal avoid the inevitable pratfall of dropping points at Palace and being 2nd.
    So if Spurs pull it back against Chelsea that's nothing to play for Sunday
    Final European places

    And relegation places
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,676

    kinabalu said:

    Well done Arsenal

    That should cheer Keir up a bit.
    Piers Moron is going to be more unbareable then normal.
    That's difficult.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,884
    Spurs now 2 down and going to a nail biting last game. What a disgrace for such a large club.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,354
    Ratters said:

    DavidL said:

    I am 64 (although not yet losing my hair), not too far off my pension now and I think the triple lock is ridiculous and needs to stop. Pensioners are a very mixed group. Some are genuinely poor but many, more certainly, are very comfortable indeed. In spending our limited resources on those that are comfortable we leave less for those that are not and unfairly increase the burden on those paying for it.

    Personally, I would go much further. Those whose pensions are, say, 2x average incomes (not completely fixed on what the limit should be), should not get the State pension at all. It needs to be means tested, albeit on a generous scale to stop discouraging those who might lose out from saving for a pension.

    Our State commitments are simply unaffordable. We need to find a lot of different ways of cutting the obligations so that they fall in line with the taxes we are willing to pay. This, in my view, is where we start.

    I mean, the trouble is the private sector cost of replicating an inflation-linked full state pension for a married couple is in the order of £450k (according to Gemini calculation that looks plausible).

    That is a huge cliff edge to means test. Especially as any fair means test would need to look at total wealth not just pension or other income.

    I think the state pension forms part of our social contract and shouldn't be means tested. Better to reduce it and add a means tested top-up benefits for those who need it.
    Index linked annuities are 5% ish i think for a 65 y/o, so £250k buys you the state pension. That doesn't count the triple lock tbf, just inflation part.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133
    dixiedean said:

    Everyone's getting a bit ahead of themselves re Burnham winning.
    My aged Ma opines (our woman on the spot)

    "It's a bit of a brave gamble as it will be no pushover. But he's really, really popular round here. I hope he wins but it isn't certain."

    You can lay him at 1.8 for PM if you're brave but as someone else posted it seems inevitable
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,939

    Ouch. China eating their Currywurst? It does back up what my German mate was saying to me. He is recently on the job market, highly qualified and finding it hard to get something.
    The 2030s might look like the 1930s at this rate.
    To be fair who could have guessed that embracing nationalism, protectionism and might is right diplomacy could have led us that way?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,791
    One team that are having an even worse day than Southampton: Spurs
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,375

    One team that are having an even worse day than Southampton: Spurs

    Chelsea must be enjoying their chance to help send Spurs down....
  • There is a deal of noisy celebration in north London
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,220
    I am sure this has been discussed but Reform have gone for the local plumber angle. Not a particular surprise as he seemed the standout candidate.

    Another 'I'm a local' video. Quite good but without the political depth (and music licensing spend) of Burnham's effort. Being "a local" is not in and of itself of benefit to the nation.

    Burnham video 8.5
    Plumber video 7.0

    However, he does seem articulate and to have potential to be an asset to Reform if he gets it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    13 councillors elected in May have already resigned

    So far its Greens 8 Reform 5.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/2056828601178214650?s=61

    According to the link 2 greens resigned because they were teachers. You'd have thought their agents or even them realised this.
    What's the reasong behind not being able to be a councillor if you are a teacher?
    If you work for a maintained school you are paid by the LA. I used to work for the Council that way.
    And are therefore an employee. (Assuming you've been elected to the same council I think).
    What if you’re a temp, via an agency ?
    Who pays you or whose the contract with?
    The contract would be with the agency who’d pay you either directly or via Ltd co/Brolly.

    Presumably in that case as an agency worker they could be a councillor ?
    Yes.
    However, if you're suggesting why don't they just go on supply then? (You may not be, but others might), it's effectively a different job in terms of your responsibility.
    And what's expected of you.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,127
    Squeaky bum time ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,753

    Stats for Lefties is run by a proper weirdo. Can we please stop posting Tweets

    Why not "Stats for Everyone" or "Stats for All"?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,753

    One team that are having an even worse day than Southampton: Spurs

    Oh, they've pulled one back.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489

    I am sure this has been discussed but Reform have gone for the local plumber angle. Not a particular surprise as he seemed the standout candidate.

    Another 'I'm a local' video. Quite good but without the political depth (and music licensing spend) of Burnham's effort. Being "a local" is not in and of itself of benefit to the nation.

    Burnham video 8.5
    Plumber video 7.0

    However, he does seem articulate and to have potential to be an asset to Reform if he gets it.

    Weirdly, X has banned him, for reasons unknown.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,139
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Great effort by Bournemouth considering their "natural" place in the pyramid should be about halfway up league 1

    Todays result shows that isn't true. Not unless you think Man City belong there too.
    They've got a sub 12,000 seater stadium !

    Man City's "natural" position is a middling Prem club imv
This discussion has been closed.