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Burnham Love and Weseltine Streeting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,256
edited May 19 in General
Burnham Love and Weseltine Streeting – politicalbetting.com

Asked to rank eight potential leadership candidates in order of preference, Burnham and Starmer dominate first choicesBurnham: 47% first choiceStarmer: 31%Rayner: 8%Streeting: 4%Miliband: 3%Cooper: 3%Mahmood: 1%Carns: 0%yougov.com/en-gb/articl…

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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    First as Burnham will be
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,652
    edited May 19
    Don’t get the header.

    Soz.

    Unless it’s an Elvis reference.

    SKS has left the building
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,787
    edited May 19
    Taz said:

    Don’t get the header.

    Soz.

    Burning Love by Elvis.

    When it comes to Labour members it is clear when they see Andy Burnham it is a case of ‘Lord Almighty, I feel my temperature risin’, mmm, Higher, higher, it’s burning through to my soul.’
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,652

    Taz said:

    Don’t get the header.

    Soz.

    Burning Love by Elvis.

    When it comes to Labour members it is clear when they see Andy Burnham it is a case of ‘Lord Almighty, I feel my temperature risin’, mmm, Higher, higher, it’s burning through to my soul.’
    I just twigged after first post and amended the original.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    On the thread header, surely the point is that even allowing for the AV system against any candidate but Burnham Starmer should probably be favourite?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,445
    Best Burnham Streeting pun line yet!
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    edited May 19
    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,445
    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    You managed to triangulate back to Deltics though.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,555
    edited May 19
    Still bemused by the residual love for Starmer. Amongst other things.

    Are we going to have another thread derailed?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,787
    DavidL said:

    Still bemused by the residual love for Starmer. Amongst other things.

    Took Labour from 202 MPs to over 400 MPs in one go.

    As I noted the other day

    A reminder that Sir Keir Starmer is the greatest Leader of the Opposition since the end of WWII

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2026/05/15/a-reminder-that-sir-keir-starmer-is-the-greatest-leader-of-the-opposition-since-the-end-of-wwii/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,555

    DavidL said:

    Still bemused by the residual love for Starmer. Amongst other things.

    Took Labour from 202 MPs to over 400 MPs in one go.

    As I noted the other day

    A reminder that Sir Keir Starmer is the greatest Leader of the Opposition since the end of WWII

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2026/05/15/a-reminder-that-sir-keir-starmer-is-the-greatest-leader-of-the-opposition-since-the-end-of-wwii/
    Yes but that was largely because the Tories were dead on their feet. His share of the vote was unimpressive and he promised next to nothing with his Ming vase strategy. It’s not clear he delivered even that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,816
    edited May 19
    DavidL said:

    Still bemused by the residual love for Starmer. Amongst other things.

    Are we going to have another thread derailed?

    Loyalty, at least while he’s still trying to do the job.

    If the polling stays like that (and when he wins the by-el it will likely improve), it would be irresponsible of Labour to subject us (and themselves) to a whole summer of infighting and instability, and should just get Burnham in place as soon as possible.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 25,017
    DavidL said:

    Still bemused by the residual love for Starmer. Amongst other things.

    Are we going to have another thread derailed?

    A couple of explanations suggest themselves - tribal loyalty, and that most of the Labour members unhappy with Starmer have left the party.

    It's interesting that party membership has increasingly become more like a leadership fan club, rather than a long-term commitment to a party and its principles.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,681
    Labour members may think Mr Streeting shouldn't have resigned, but given the opposition he'd voiced he surely couldn't stay in post. What they should have asked was whether he should have voiced that opposition in the first place.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

    To add - the problem is all the easy improvements have been done. on the ECML from York onwards the remaining sensible improvements is diverting to the outskirts of Northallerton (it currently goes through the town) and straightening the route between Darlington and Newcastle for it's currently rather slow and windy.

    But that will cost billions so is way down the list of priorities - reality is it's going to be roughly 4 hours for ever more..

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,816

    DavidL said:

    Still bemused by the residual love for Starmer. Amongst other things.

    Took Labour from 202 MPs to over 400 MPs in one go.

    As I noted the other day

    A reminder that Sir Keir Starmer is the greatest Leader of the Opposition since the end of WWII

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2026/05/15/a-reminder-that-sir-keir-starmer-is-the-greatest-leader-of-the-opposition-since-the-end-of-wwii/
    Our dodgy voting system did that
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,555

    DavidL said:

    Still bemused by the residual love for Starmer. Amongst other things.

    Are we going to have another thread derailed?

    A couple of explanations suggest themselves - tribal loyalty, and that most of the Labour members unhappy with Starmer have left the party.

    It's interesting that party membership has increasingly become more like a leadership fan club, rather than a long-term commitment to a party and its principles.
    Yes as principles and policy become ever more complex political parties become more like fan clubs. It’s dangerous as Trump shows all too well.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,787

    Best Burnham Streeting pun line yet!

    I still think Labour should choose Wes Streeting simply because he has the most punnable name.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

    To add - the problem is all the easy improvements have been done. on the ECML from York onwards the remaining sensible improvements is diverting to the outskirts of Northallerton (it currently goes through the town) and straightening the route between Darlington and Newcastle for it's currently rather slow and windy.

    But that will cost billions so is way down the list of priorities - reality is it's going to be roughly 4 hours for ever more..

    Particualrly if they ever do build an actual high speed line to Glasgow with a branch to Edinburgh.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,799
    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,439

    DavidL said:

    Still bemused by the residual love for Starmer. Amongst other things.

    Are we going to have another thread derailed?

    A couple of explanations suggest themselves - tribal loyalty, and that most of the Labour members unhappy with Starmer have left the party.

    It's interesting that party membership has increasingly become more like a leadership fan club, rather than a long-term commitment to a party and its principles.
    There’s a non-trivial number of Labour members trying to sell - it’s not Starmer, it’s the Evil Right Wing Press making everyone ignore all the wonderful things that the government has done.

    On social media, there is a long list of everything they can think of that gets pasted into every conversation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    That's always been a compulsory GCSE.

    And the content of the current one was written by Michael Gove personally. Having taught it, it's anything but as described. So if you think it is woke, either you have seriously misunderstood it or your daughter's teachers have found a remarkable way to manipulate it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,652
    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    What novels is she studying ?

    We did 1984 and also Twelfth Night.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,787
    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    My love of Shakespeare (which I hide well on here) also doubled up as history lessons at times, for example we were taught about things like William of Norwich and the Edict of Expulsion alongside studying The Merchant of Venice.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,787
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Don’t get the header.

    Soz.

    Burning Love by Elvis.

    When it comes to Labour members it is clear when they see Andy Burnham it is a case of ‘Lord Almighty, I feel my temperature risin’, mmm, Higher, higher, it’s burning through to my soul.’
    I just twigged after first post and amended the original.
    Don’I worry about it, people regularly miss my subtle puns.
  • ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

    To add - the problem is all the easy improvements have been done. on the ECML from York onwards the remaining sensible improvements is diverting to the outskirts of Northallerton (it currently goes through the town) and straightening the route between Darlington and Newcastle for it's currently rather slow and windy.

    But that will cost billions so is way down the list of priorities - reality is it's going to be roughly 4 hours for ever more..

    Particualrly if they ever do build an actual high speed line to Glasgow with a branch to Edinburgh.
    Happy to oblige with my comment FPT

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,214
    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    You're just grumpy, Cookie. Probably the prospect of a Burnhamless Manchester :wink:
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,799
    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    What novels is she studying ?

    We did 1984 and also Twelfth Night.
    An Inspector Calls - it's all 'this shows the patriarchy, that shows the contempt for the upper classes of the working classes, this shows the need for socialism' - the study approach appears to be authored by the Momentum Group. The racism bit is Noughts and Crosses which has come up in her revision guides but she is not actually doing. Also war poems.

    To be fair she is also doing MacBeth which does not fit into that category.

    I never did it - I don't think it was compulsory in the 90s. I did English Language (which involved reading a book) but not English Literature. I never did any Shakespeare (not that I object to Shakespeare on principle - but like much of English Literature it seems at best to fall into the category of 'odd thing to make a compulsory aspect of 11-16 schooling').
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

    To add - the problem is all the easy improvements have been done. on the ECML from York onwards the remaining sensible improvements is diverting to the outskirts of Northallerton (it currently goes through the town) and straightening the route between Darlington and Newcastle for it's currently rather slow and windy.

    But that will cost billions so is way down the list of priorities - reality is it's going to be roughly 4 hours for ever more..

    Particualrly if they ever do build an actual high speed line to Glasgow with a branch to Edinburgh.
    Happy to oblige with my comment FPT

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets
    I will wait for the actual report and read that but remember that all Government reports are written to meet the requirements of the person who commissioned the report.

    The issue comes down to not employing a single set of people and then leaving them to deliver it..
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 19
    I am, in the end, right about absolutely everything*. It’s fucking uncanny. I should be hired by the government to just tootle about on £6,000 an hour. Making coffee. Staring at my Neanderthal hand axe. Flying to Rwanda for lolz

    Every so often I will make a random observation. “You don’t need speed”. “The necklace”. “There’s a pandemic coming.” “Antique coffee cans from about 1800-1830 are stupidly cheap and beautiful”. And a flunky next to me will slavishly write it down, send it to HMG, and save the nation BILLIONS

    *with the POSSIBLE exception of what3words
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,439
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    That's always been a compulsory GCSE.

    And the content of the current one was written by Michael Gove personally. Having taught it, it's anything but as described. So if you think it is woke, either you have seriously misunderstood it or your daughter's teachers have found a remarkable way to manipulate it.
    As it happens, my younger daughter is doing GCSE English at the moment.

    What board is this? Her essay on Mice and Men (for example) included none of this, and she got a very high grade on the coursework element.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,399
    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    Suspect it's an unintended consequence of school performance tables.

    Imagine that you're a Head of English. You are going to be judged on the percentage of Year 11 pupils who get high grades in your subject. In Lit, the main tool you have at your disposal is the texts you choose to study, and the best choices are the ones where the analysis is easy to teach. So you get fairly superficial texts- Of Mice and Men, An Inspector Calls (spoiler: Inspector Goole is a ghost) and so on. Or Noughts and Crosses, which is about Issues and Young People and doesn't need too much background context. And then, one of the directions that superficiality can go is the worst sort of woke.

    Here are the texts studied at GCSE at the famously unwoke Michaela School in Brent;

    A Christmas Carol
    Animal Farm
    Macbeth
    An Inspector Calls

    Not all that woke, but certainly efficient to teach.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,927

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    That's always been a compulsory GCSE.

    And the content of the current one was written by Michael Gove personally. Having taught it, it's anything but as described. So if you think it is woke, either you have seriously misunderstood it or your daughter's teachers have found a remarkable way to manipulate it.
    As it happens, my younger daughter is doing GCSE English at the moment.

    What board is this? Her essay on Mice and Men (for example) included none of this, and she got a very high grade on the coursework element.
    A former boss held the opinion the Steinbeck was the best thing ever but, after doing Of Mice and Men at school, I can never bring myself to even try anything else he wrote.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

    To add - the problem is all the easy improvements have been done. on the ECML from York onwards the remaining sensible improvements is diverting to the outskirts of Northallerton (it currently goes through the town) and straightening the route between Darlington and Newcastle for it's currently rather slow and windy.

    But that will cost billions so is way down the list of priorities - reality is it's going to be roughly 4 hours for ever more..

    And four hours is FINE. How much do you think it would benefit the economy if we spent sixty trillion quid and built HS9 and got that down to three hours? Two hours 45 minutes? In the age of zoom and FaceTime it matters not a jot, you can do almost everything remotely. Instead of spending eighty billion pounds on new train lines spend £80m making sure all trains have excellent reliable WiFi

    Moreover, we are entering the era of fast safe driverless cars and buses and, soon, driverless helidrones. The future for fixed track expensive trains is not entirely clear
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    That's always been a compulsory GCSE.

    And the content of the current one was written by Michael Gove personally. Having taught it, it's anything but as described. So if you think it is woke, either you have seriously misunderstood it or your daughter's teachers have found a remarkable way to manipulate it.
    Got to say this is the current list https://schoolreadinglist.co.uk/tag/gcse/ - there isn't much woke on there but a fair amount of 1990s
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,197

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

    To add - the problem is all the easy improvements have been done. on the ECML from York onwards the remaining sensible improvements is diverting to the outskirts of Northallerton (it currently goes through the town) and straightening the route between Darlington and Newcastle for it's currently rather slow and windy.

    But that will cost billions so is way down the list of priorities - reality is it's going to be roughly 4 hours for ever more..

    And four hours is FINE. How much do you think it would benefit the economy if we spent sixty trillion quid and built HS9 and got that down to three hours? Two hours 45 minutes? In the age of zoom and FaceTime it matters not a jot, you can do almost everything remotely. Instead of spending eighty billion pounds on new train lines spend £80m making sure all trains have excellent reliable WiFi

    Moreover, we are entering the era of fast safe driverless cars and buses and, soon, driverless helidrones. The future for fixed track expensive trains is not entirely clear
    Britain didn’t build the British Empire or spearhead the industrial revolution on the basis that “fine” is good enough. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,364
    edited May 19
    UK unemployment rate unexpectedly rises

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czx2plkvg45o

    Unemployment up, vacancies down, youth unemployment highest for 11 years, wage growth down. It doesn't really tally with the large economic growth reported a few days ago.

    Not suggesting anything dodgy, I wonder where the mismatch is. Just reporting lag between growth and employment figures, much higher productivity via AI, something else?

    There was disucssion the other day about hospitality and again mismatch in number of opening / closures now versus employment opportunities in that sector. Is that venues just opening for a much more limited amount of time? Or again reporting lag and that there is now a lot more closures?
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,571
    I think youth employment may see a sudden and significant short term increase.

    Growing signs in Devon and Cornwall, specifically Torbay of a stay cation boom.

    Concerns about Flights, Jet Fuel, Safety etc has seen what was sluggish and slow holiday occupancy rates June to October increase markedly in past few weeks.

    Very significant trend too from 7 day bookings to long weekend and 4 day midweek bookings.

    The Hospitality, Retail, Cleaning sector already starting to seek and advertise for summer staff having realised that their reduced staffing won't cope.

    It could be a bumper summer for UK tourism IF the weather plays ball.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,533
    Foss said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    That's always been a compulsory GCSE.

    And the content of the current one was written by Michael Gove personally. Having taught it, it's anything but as described. So if you think it is woke, either you have seriously misunderstood it or your daughter's teachers have found a remarkable way to manipulate it.
    As it happens, my younger daughter is doing GCSE English at the moment.

    What board is this? Her essay on Mice and Men (for example) included none of this, and she got a very high grade on the coursework element.
    A former boss held the opinion the Steinbeck was the best thing ever but, after doing Of Mice and Men at school, I can never bring myself to even try anything else he wrote.
    It has the advantage of being short! Steinbeck wrote much better books. Is it English literature though or world literature in English?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,422
    It would be interesting to see the same without Burnham.
    Ed M only seems to pick up from 3rd choice onwards, which would be a very late run through the middle.
    If Burnham doesn't win in Makerfield then I can see Starmer hanging on
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    That's always been a compulsory GCSE.

    And the content of the current one was written by Michael Gove personally. Having taught it, it's anything but as described. So if you think it is woke, either you have seriously misunderstood it or your daughter's teachers have found a remarkable way to manipulate it.
    As it happens, my younger daughter is doing GCSE English at the moment.

    What board is this? Her essay on Mice and Men (for example) included none of this, and she got a very high grade on the coursework element.
    That's the iGCSE Edexcel (I would guess). The mainstream GCSE for state schools is rather different.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,941

    DavidL said:

    Still bemused by the residual love for Starmer. Amongst other things.

    Took Labour from 202 MPs to over 400 MPs in one go.

    As I noted the other day

    A reminder that Sir Keir Starmer is the greatest Leader of the Opposition since the end of WWII

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2026/05/15/a-reminder-that-sir-keir-starmer-is-the-greatest-leader-of-the-opposition-since-the-end-of-wwii/
    Counts for nothing when he turns out to be so shit as PM though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,364
    edited May 19
    Weird xenophobia about England picking Benhard Janse van Rensburg by the media. Nobody in the media says anything about half Ireland or Scotland team being New Zealand or South African born players, and Van Rensburg not exactly the first foreign born player England have picked after playing in the Prem for a number of years.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    What novels is she studying ?

    We did 1984 and also Twelfth Night.
    An Inspector Calls - it's all 'this shows the patriarchy, that shows the contempt for the upper classes of the working classes, this shows the need for socialism' - the study approach appears to be authored by the Momentum Group. The racism bit is Noughts and Crosses which has come up in her revision guides but she is not actually doing. Also war poems.

    To be fair she is also doing MacBeth which does not fit into that category.

    I never did it - I don't think it was compulsory in the 90s. I did English Language (which involved reading a book) but not English Literature. I never did any Shakespeare (not that I object to Shakespeare on principle - but like much of English Literature it seems at best to fall into the category of 'odd thing to make a compulsory aspect of 11-16 schooling').
    It is compulsory to do one form of English, in the sense that if you don't pass either Lang or Lit you have to resit it. That's all. Most schools however insist on two due to league tables particularly for brighter pupils (which from what you've said I assume your daughter is).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,699
    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    LOL. A very amusing parody of an anti-woke rant.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    Foxy said:

    Foss said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    That's always been a compulsory GCSE.

    And the content of the current one was written by Michael Gove personally. Having taught it, it's anything but as described. So if you think it is woke, either you have seriously misunderstood it or your daughter's teachers have found a remarkable way to manipulate it.
    As it happens, my younger daughter is doing GCSE English at the moment.

    What board is this? Her essay on Mice and Men (for example) included none of this, and she got a very high grade on the coursework element.
    A former boss held the opinion the Steinbeck was the best thing ever but, after doing Of Mice and Men at school, I can never bring myself to even try anything else he wrote.
    It has the advantage of being short! Steinbeck wrote much better books. Is it English literature though or world literature in English?
    OMandM is not available in GCSE Eng Lit in England. It is in Wales and is for iGCSE. Gove specifically took it off for being written by somebody who was not English and too woke.

    How he left A Christmas Carol in on that basis I've no idea but I suppose that is at least by an English author.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,215
    AnneJGP said:

    Labour members may think Mr Streeting shouldn't have resigned, but given the opposition he'd voiced he surely couldn't stay in post. What they should have asked was whether he should have voiced that opposition in the first place.

    Although Wes Streeting probably did have the 81+ supporters needed to get on the ballot, they will fade away once they've read polls like the one in the header; there is no point nailing your colours to Wes's mast if Wes is already listing badly. For that reason, if Burnham wins the by-election, it is unlikely Wes can stand against him for the leadership.

    But if Burnham does not win the by-election, there may be new polls showing Wes is more competitive against Starmer. Or not.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,422

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

    To add - the problem is all the easy improvements have been done. on the ECML from York onwards the remaining sensible improvements is diverting to the outskirts of Northallerton (it currently goes through the town) and straightening the route between Darlington and Newcastle for it's currently rather slow and windy.

    But that will cost billions so is way down the list of priorities - reality is it's going to be roughly 4 hours for ever more..

    And four hours is FINE. How much do you think it would benefit the economy if we spent sixty trillion quid and built HS9 and got that down to three hours? Two hours 45 minutes? In the age of zoom and FaceTime it matters not a jot, you can do almost everything remotely. Instead of spending eighty billion pounds on new train lines spend £80m making sure all trains have excellent reliable WiFi

    Moreover, we are entering the era of fast safe driverless cars and buses and, soon, driverless helidrones. The future for fixed track expensive trains is not entirely clear
    Britain didn’t build the British Empire or spearhead the industrial revolution on the basis that “fine” is good enough. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
    I did say "talk of London to Edinburgh in 2 hours" :)
    Circa '91 IIRC London to Newcastle had some 2hr 30 trains, then it was privatised and went up to 3hrs+
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 847

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

    To add - the problem is all the easy improvements have been done. on the ECML from York onwards the remaining sensible improvements is diverting to the outskirts of Northallerton (it currently goes through the town) and straightening the route between Darlington and Newcastle for it's currently rather slow and windy.

    But that will cost billions so is way down the list of priorities - reality is it's going to be roughly 4 hours for ever more..

    And four hours is FINE. How much do you think it would benefit the economy if we spent sixty trillion quid and built HS9 and got that down to three hours? Two hours 45 minutes? In the age of zoom and FaceTime it matters not a jot, you can do almost everything remotely. Instead of spending eighty billion pounds on new train lines spend £80m making sure all trains have excellent reliable WiFi

    Moreover, we are entering the era of fast safe driverless cars and buses and, soon, driverless helidrones. The future for fixed track expensive trains is not entirely clear
    Morning Leon

    Re the train times. A journey between Scotlands most southern station and its most northern (Stranraer to Thurso) takes approx 10 hours 46, with 4 changes.

    In a car, that journey is 7 hours 28 mins, comparable with a car journey between Waverley and Euston taking 7 hours 44. People living near the main line, millions of them, are fortunate to have such a quick way to travel.

    I'm not advocating branch lines should be made HS2, there is lot of disparity away from the main lines. More chance of these lines being closed than upgraded.

    East coast main line has always felt journey times are much faster than West, HS2 problems seem to be much of it going underground, digging up Camden etc as you have said and refining it to a stupidly high spec for speed.

    The Chinese are probably laughing at the UK government for how much it spends on bat tunnels
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,245

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    Suspect it's an unintended consequence of school performance tables.

    Imagine that you're a Head of English. You are going to be judged on the percentage of Year 11 pupils who get high grades in your subject. In Lit, the main tool you have at your disposal is the texts you choose to study, and the best choices are the ones where the analysis is easy to teach. So you get fairly superficial texts- Of Mice and Men, An Inspector Calls (spoiler: Inspector Goole is a ghost) and so on. Or Noughts and Crosses, which is about Issues and Young People and doesn't need too much background context. And then, one of the directions that superficiality can go is the worst sort of woke.

    Here are the texts studied at GCSE at the famously unwoke Michaela School in Brent;

    A Christmas Carol
    Animal Farm
    Macbeth
    An Inspector Calls

    Not all that woke, but certainly efficient to teach.
    I studied Great Expectations. Pip and Joe, Miss Haversham and Estella, Magwitch - are all still with me after nearly seventy years of first reading it. We also studied the Kon-Tiki Expedition. Plus Julius Caesar and Macbeth.
  • I’m intrigued that Reform haven’t tried to make Brexit an issue yet on one of their campaign ads.

    It’s all about Burnham trying to find a seat. I’m not sure this is very effective.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,533
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Foss said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    That's always been a compulsory GCSE.

    And the content of the current one was written by Michael Gove personally. Having taught it, it's anything but as described. So if you think it is woke, either you have seriously misunderstood it or your daughter's teachers have found a remarkable way to manipulate it.
    As it happens, my younger daughter is doing GCSE English at the moment.

    What board is this? Her essay on Mice and Men (for example) included none of this, and she got a very high grade on the coursework element.
    A former boss held the opinion the Steinbeck was the best thing ever but, after doing Of Mice and Men at school, I can never bring myself to even try anything else he wrote.
    It has the advantage of being short! Steinbeck wrote much better books. Is it English literature though or world literature in English?
    OMandM is not available in GCSE Eng Lit in England. It is in Wales and is for iGCSE. Gove specifically took it off for being written by somebody who was not English and too woke.

    How he left A Christmas Carol in on that basis I've no idea but I suppose that is at least by an English author.
    Its a few years since my boys did Eng Lit, but my complaint about it was more that only passages of Shakespeare etc were covered rather than the entire work, thereby failing the big picture.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,571

    UK unemployment rate unexpectedly rises

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czx2plkvg45o

    Unemployment up, vacancies down, youth unemployment highest for 11 years, wage growth down. It doesn't really tally with the large economic growth reported a few days ago.

    Not suggesting anything dodgy, I wonder where the mismatch is. Just reporting lag between growth and employment figures, much higher productivity via AI, something else?

    There was disucssion the other day about hospitality and again mismatch in number of opening / closures now versus employment opportunities in that sector. Is that venues just opening for a much more limited amount of time? Or again reporting lag and that there is now a lot more closures?

    Locally

    Massive new Ibis and Mercure hotels in Paignton and stunning new top end IHG Group hotel in Torquay opened in last 12 months

    New Shopping developments in Paignton and Torquay. Much needed visible regeneration Tory Council using Labour Government grants and funding

    Brixham extending Harbour capacity and plans for a new harbour wall to increase Harbour size.

    Massive new Marina and Hospitality site under development Nos Marina on River Dart up river from Dartmouth.

    Very positive signs of growth, regeneration in South Devon

  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,422
    Barnesian said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    Suspect it's an unintended consequence of school performance tables.

    Imagine that you're a Head of English. You are going to be judged on the percentage of Year 11 pupils who get high grades in your subject. In Lit, the main tool you have at your disposal is the texts you choose to study, and the best choices are the ones where the analysis is easy to teach. So you get fairly superficial texts- Of Mice and Men, An Inspector Calls (spoiler: Inspector Goole is a ghost) and so on. Or Noughts and Crosses, which is about Issues and Young People and doesn't need too much background context. And then, one of the directions that superficiality can go is the worst sort of woke.

    Here are the texts studied at GCSE at the famously unwoke Michaela School in Brent;

    A Christmas Carol
    Animal Farm
    Macbeth
    An Inspector Calls

    Not all that woke, but certainly efficient to teach.
    I studied Great Expectations. Pip and Joe, Miss Haversham and Estella, Magwitch - are all still with me after nearly seventy years of first reading it. We also studied the Kon-Tiki Expedition. Plus Julius Caesar and Macbeth.
    All schools will be teaching the texts on the exam syllabus, so while the leaders of the Michaela academy chain might prefer the pupils study Ayn Rand they wouldn't pass Eng Lit GCSE.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Foss said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    That's always been a compulsory GCSE.

    And the content of the current one was written by Michael Gove personally. Having taught it, it's anything but as described. So if you think it is woke, either you have seriously misunderstood it or your daughter's teachers have found a remarkable way to manipulate it.
    As it happens, my younger daughter is doing GCSE English at the moment.

    What board is this? Her essay on Mice and Men (for example) included none of this, and she got a very high grade on the coursework element.
    A former boss held the opinion the Steinbeck was the best thing ever but, after doing Of Mice and Men at school, I can never bring myself to even try anything else he wrote.
    It has the advantage of being short! Steinbeck wrote much better books. Is it English literature though or world literature in English?
    OMandM is not available in GCSE Eng Lit in England. It is in Wales and is for iGCSE. Gove specifically took it off for being written by somebody who was not English and too woke.

    How he left A Christmas Carol in on that basis I've no idea but I suppose that is at least by an English author.
    Its a few years since my boys did Eng Lit, but my complaint about it was more that only passages of Shakespeare etc were covered rather than the entire work, thereby failing the big picture.
    To be fair that is one improvement. The question is now 'Starting with the extract, explore how X/Y/Z is presented in this play.'

    I still think it would be better to have actual copies and refer to it all the way through though.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,422
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    What novels is she studying ?

    We did 1984 and also Twelfth Night.
    An Inspector Calls - it's all 'this shows the patriarchy, that shows the contempt for the upper classes of the working classes, this shows the need for socialism' - the study approach appears to be authored by the Momentum Group. The racism bit is Noughts and Crosses which has come up in her revision guides but she is not actually doing. Also war poems.

    To be fair she is also doing MacBeth which does not fit into that category.

    I never did it - I don't think it was compulsory in the 90s. I did English Language (which involved reading a book) but not English Literature. I never did any Shakespeare (not that I object to Shakespeare on principle - but like much of English Literature it seems at best to fall into the category of 'odd thing to make a compulsory aspect of 11-16 schooling').
    It is compulsory to do one form of English, in the sense that if you don't pass either Lang or Lit you have to resit it. That's all. Most schools however insist on two due to league tables particularly for brighter pupils (which from what you've said I assume your daughter is).
    Also JB Priestley was "woke", so interpreting it as a critique of the class system would be entirely as intended by Priestley, that's what it is.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,787
    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    A MacBook is the answer.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    Sadly not, video calls are the sort of thing no one using Linux cares about.

    My advice nowadays is get a Mac - if you think Windows 11 is bad you haven’t seen 12 yet
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,799

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

    To add - the problem is all the easy improvements have been done. on the ECML from York onwards the remaining sensible improvements is diverting to the outskirts of Northallerton (it currently goes through the town) and straightening the route between Darlington and Newcastle for it's currently rather slow and windy.

    But that will cost billions so is way down the list of priorities - reality is it's going to be roughly 4 hours for ever more..

    Particualrly if they ever do build an actual high speed line to Glasgow with a branch to Edinburgh.
    Happy to oblige with my comment FPT

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets
    This is a subject I know quite a bit about, unlike most of my output.

    It's not about speed. It's about capacity. Fixed track is still the most efficient way of transporting large numbers of people. And it's not even primarily about, say, Manchester - London capacity. It's about taking the Manchester-London (the logic works just as well for other city pairings) trains off the local network so you can run far more trains on the local network in Greater Manchester and Staffordshire and so on.

    By far the easiest and cheapest(!) way of doing this is new infrastructure. 4-tracking existing 2-track alignments is superficially attractive but 1) it is hugely expensive and difficult to tinker with the live railway rather than put in new off-line improvements, 2) every junction you meet you need to grade separate, which is eye-wateringly expensive, and 3) in most cases, towns have been built up to the railways built in Victorian times - there is rarely the land available, and aquiring and demolishing large numbers of houses is expensive and politically difficult.

    And if you are going to construct a new alignment, you may as well engineer well so the new trains can go reasonably quickly.

    I do strongly agree however that in a medium sized, densely populated country such as ours, you get diminishing returns on particularly high speeds. 200kph is probably fine, and considerably cheaper than 300kph.

    (Much of the rationale for the speed was to make rail competitive with air between London and Glasgow, which does have some economic logic to it (the arguments here are complex so i'd ask you to trust me on this, which is a bold ask on an internet forum). However, there was never a plan to do anything new north of Wigan - i.e. for half the route - and because the new trains don't tilt, they would actually have to go more slowly than the existing trains between Wigan and Glasgow, losing some of the advantage of the southern half of the route and also potentially slowing down other traffic on the network. So not a great outcome even if you do get your speedy bits in South Britain.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,346
    Interesting to note English Lit doesn't change much, remember doing Mice & Men and twelth night in class then an Inspector Calls coming up in the exam which I distinctly remember us never having read the book in class !
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    Sadly not, video calls are the sort of thing no one using Linux cares about.

    My advice nowadays is get a Mac - if you think Windows 11 is bad you haven’t seen 12 yet
    Thanks, that's depressing to hear.

    I have a mac. In fact, I have two, although both are rather elderly. Can Macs do major multiscreen setups now? That would be a requirement.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,787
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    Sadly not, video calls are the sort of thing no one using Linux cares about.

    My advice nowadays is get a Mac - if you think Windows 11 is bad you haven’t seen 12 yet
    Thanks, that's depressing to hear.

    I have a mac. In fact, I have two, although both are rather elderly. Can Macs do major multiscreen setups now? That would be a requirement.
    Yes, https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl7c7ebe08/mac
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 868
    No poetry in English Literature GCSE?
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    edited May 19

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    Sadly not, video calls are the sort of thing no one using Linux cares about.

    My advice nowadays is get a Mac - if you think Windows 11 is bad you haven’t seen 12 yet
    Thanks, that's depressing to hear.

    I have a mac. In fact, I have two, although both are rather elderly. Can Macs do major multiscreen setups now? That would be a requirement.
    Yes, https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl7c7ebe08/mac
    Yep - my Mac runs 3 screens, the internal one and 2 4k 27” screens in silence

    The client laptop screams (well fans at full tilt) for the entire time it’s connected to that layout
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,927
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    Sadly not, video calls are the sort of thing no one using Linux cares about.

    My advice nowadays is get a Mac - if you think Windows 11 is bad you haven’t seen 12 yet
    Thanks, that's depressing to hear.

    I have a mac. In fact, I have two, although both are rather elderly. Can Macs do major multiscreen setups now? That would be a requirement.
    Anything with Thunderbolt 4 or better can run at least two 4k 60Hz monitors.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,364
    edited May 19
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    Sadly not, video calls are the sort of thing no one using Linux cares about.

    My advice nowadays is get a Mac - if you think Windows 11 is bad you haven’t seen 12 yet
    Thanks, that's depressing to hear.

    I have a mac. In fact, I have two, although both are rather elderly. Can Macs do major multiscreen setups now? That would be a requirement.
    Apple bit naughty with the multiple monitor support, artifically capping it with different chips. But M4 onwards can, if I remember correctly standard m4/m5 chip in macbook air = 2 external monitors, but mac mini can do 3 and the max chip in all devices can drive silly amount of external monitors, I think 5. These can all be ultra high res monitors like 5k. You can also always buy a displaylink dock that allows 3+ external monitors.

    Because of the shared memory between cpu and gpu, for a good experience, the real limiting factor is amount of RAM. But 16Gb should be plenty to drive multiple monitors with ease. The M series chips really are a revolution.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,439
    a
    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    This kind of stuff is why many devs have moved to OSX - which is a derivative of BSD Unix.

    Most servers in commercial application are Linux now.

    If Europe was serious about technological independence, a European company backing a maintained Linux distro for desktop, with easy setup, is almost trivial thing.

    Hell, the UK government could easily afford such - enough desktops in government.

    But it would take spending money to save money.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,787
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    Sadly not, video calls are the sort of thing no one using Linux cares about.

    My advice nowadays is get a Mac - if you think Windows 11 is bad you haven’t seen 12 yet
    Thanks, that's depressing to hear.

    I have a mac. In fact, I have two, although both are rather elderly. Can Macs do major multiscreen setups now? That would be a requirement.
    Yes, https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl7c7ebe08/mac
    Yep - my Mac 2 runs 3 screens, the internal one and 2 4k 27” screens
    Same at work.

    I am so glad I work for an employer that uses Macs and not Windows.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,533
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Foss said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    That's always been a compulsory GCSE.

    And the content of the current one was written by Michael Gove personally. Having taught it, it's anything but as described. So if you think it is woke, either you have seriously misunderstood it or your daughter's teachers have found a remarkable way to manipulate it.
    As it happens, my younger daughter is doing GCSE English at the moment.

    What board is this? Her essay on Mice and Men (for example) included none of this, and she got a very high grade on the coursework element.
    A former boss held the opinion the Steinbeck was the best thing ever but, after doing Of Mice and Men at school, I can never bring myself to even try anything else he wrote.
    It has the advantage of being short! Steinbeck wrote much better books. Is it English literature though or world literature in English?
    OMandM is not available in GCSE Eng Lit in England. It is in Wales and is for iGCSE. Gove specifically took it off for being written by somebody who was not English and too woke.

    How he left A Christmas Carol in on that basis I've no idea but I suppose that is at least by an English author.
    Its a few years since my boys did Eng Lit, but my complaint about it was more that only passages of Shakespeare etc were covered rather than the entire work, thereby failing the big picture.
    To be fair that is one improvement. The question is now 'Starting with the extract, explore how X/Y/Z is presented in this play.'

    I still think it would be better to have actual copies and refer to it all the way through though.
    The key question to me is "what is the point of studying English Literature?"

    Is it to give some grounding in our culture? Is it to teach critical analysis of texts? Is it to instill a love of reading as a pleasure? Or more depressingly is it to pass an exam with tick box answers?

    In large part these are contradictory.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I think youth employment may see a sudden and significant short term increase.

    Growing signs in Devon and Cornwall, specifically Torbay of a stay cation boom.

    Concerns about Flights, Jet Fuel, Safety etc has seen what was sluggish and slow holiday occupancy rates June to October increase markedly in past few weeks.

    Very significant trend too from 7 day bookings to long weekend and 4 day midweek bookings.

    The Hospitality, Retail, Cleaning sector already starting to seek and advertise for summer staff having realised that their reduced staffing won't cope.

    It could be a bumper summer for UK tourism IF the weather plays ball.

    Mods - can I appeal for a ban on the term 'staycation' for anything other than a holiday where you stay in your own house? What Brixian appears to be describing is what many of us would describe as a 'holiday'.
    Yep my weekends to Liverpool, London and Chester are weekends away.

    Likewise Glasgow and Cornwall when I know how work is playing out this year
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,799
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    What novels is she studying ?

    We did 1984 and also Twelfth Night.
    An Inspector Calls - it's all 'this shows the patriarchy, that shows the contempt for the upper classes of the working classes, this shows the need for socialism' - the study approach appears to be authored by the Momentum Group. The racism bit is Noughts and Crosses which has come up in her revision guides but she is not actually doing. Also war poems.

    To be fair she is also doing MacBeth which does not fit into that category.

    I never did it - I don't think it was compulsory in the 90s. I did English Language (which involved reading a book) but not English Literature. I never did any Shakespeare (not that I object to Shakespeare on principle - but like much of English Literature it seems at best to fall into the category of 'odd thing to make a compulsory aspect of 11-16 schooling').
    It is compulsory to do one form of English, in the sense that if you don't pass either Lang or Lit you have to resit it. That's all. Most schools however insist on two due to league tables particularly for brighter pupils (which from what you've said I assume your daughter is).
    I am doubly irritable because as a subject it is causing her more stress than all the other subjects combined, much to the bafflement of my wife who thinks Eng Lit is the easiest subject. My daughter has inherited my preferences for subjects in which there are right and wrong answers!
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,927

    a

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    This kind of stuff is why many devs have moved to OSX - which is a derivative of BSD Unix.

    Most servers in commercial application are Linux now.

    If Europe was serious about technological independence, a European company backing a maintained Linux distro for desktop, with easy setup, is almost trivial thing.

    Hell, the UK government could easily afford such - enough desktops in government.

    But it would take spending money to save money.
    Ubuntu/Canonical is London-based.

    SUSE used to be German, but it's long enough since I had to care about them that I've no idea whats happened with them.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 847
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just as @eek gave us a thread where we could talk about Deltics, it changes!

    Sabotage!

    Happy to talk Trains and HS2 so FPT
    Dopermean said:

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets

    I thought the mocking was because you were several years behind schedule relative to the PB train experts who'd been saying that HS2 was about getting the fast passenger trains off the existing lines.

    ECML was still not as quick as it was pre-privatisation 90-91 last time I used it, back then there was talk of London-Edinburgh in 2 hours.
    Um the fastest ever London to Edinburgh train was 3 hours 29 minutes achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

    It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

    It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

    In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

    The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

    4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

    4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

    It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

    Under Diesel it was 6 hours 35 - the A4's weren't that fast.

    All copied from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-was-the-fastest-london-edinburgh-run-on-the-ecml.251091/

    To add - the problem is all the easy improvements have been done. on the ECML from York onwards the remaining sensible improvements is diverting to the outskirts of Northallerton (it currently goes through the town) and straightening the route between Darlington and Newcastle for it's currently rather slow and windy.

    But that will cost billions so is way down the list of priorities - reality is it's going to be roughly 4 hours for ever more..

    Particualrly if they ever do build an actual high speed line to Glasgow with a branch to Edinburgh.
    Happy to oblige with my comment FPT

    Remember that big row we had, a few days ago? When I had an epiphany on the train from Berwick to King’s X, and I realised the big problem with HS2 was the obsession with speed? As I said then, we don’t need the speed, Britain is tiny. We just need the extra capacity

    Made a lot of PBers angry. Especially @Gallowgate

    The Telegraph, today

    “THE obsession with HS2’s speed is to blame for its failure, an official review has found.

    “The project’s focus on achieving the “highest possible speeds” has led to spiralling costs that have crippled progress, according to Sir Stephen Lovegrove. The former national security adviser said the high-speed rail line had gone “disastrously wrong” because of the decision to “gold plate” the project and political pressure to “keep things moving”.”

    https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/2437/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/2437/pub/2437/page/14/article/NaN

    I don’t need or expect grovelling apologies. I will, however, accept large financial gifts. DM me for my bank deets
    This is a subject I know quite a bit about, unlike most of my output.

    It's not about speed. It's about capacity. Fixed track is still the most efficient way of transporting large numbers of people. And it's not even primarily about, say, Manchester - London capacity. It's about taking the Manchester-London (the logic works just as well for other city pairings) trains off the local network so you can run far more trains on the local network in Greater Manchester and Staffordshire and so on.

    By far the easiest and cheapest(!) way of doing this is new infrastructure. 4-tracking existing 2-track alignments is superficially attractive but 1) it is hugely expensive and difficult to tinker with the live railway rather than put in new off-line improvements, 2) every junction you meet you need to grade separate, which is eye-wateringly expensive, and 3) in most cases, towns have been built up to the railways built in Victorian times - there is rarely the land available, and aquiring and demolishing large numbers of houses is expensive and politically difficult.

    And if you are going to construct a new alignment, you may as well engineer well so the new trains can go reasonably quickly.

    I do strongly agree however that in a medium sized, densely populated country such as ours, you get diminishing returns on particularly high speeds. 200kph is probably fine, and considerably cheaper than 300kph.

    (Much of the rationale for the speed was to make rail competitive with air between London and Glasgow, which does have some economic logic to it (the arguments here are complex so i'd ask you to trust me on this, which is a bold ask on an internet forum). However, there was never a plan to do anything new north of Wigan - i.e. for half the route - and because the new trains don't tilt, they would actually have to go more slowly than the existing trains between Wigan and Glasgow, losing some of the advantage of the southern half of the route and also potentially slowing down other traffic on the network. So not a great outcome even if you do get your speedy bits in South Britain.)
    Hi Cookie

    When you look at west coast main line, there is a couple of large bends at the bottom of Cumbria near Kendal where the line obviously has to follow the valley.

    I'm assuming that things like this, plus the volume of towns etc in Lancashire, and the more rugged landscape will add a fair bit more journey time on, compared to the east coast line, which seems to whiz past flat arable fields most of the time?

    So as you say if you want speed, fly Glasgow to London (if you can afford the drop off)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,787
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    What novels is she studying ?

    We did 1984 and also Twelfth Night.
    An Inspector Calls - it's all 'this shows the patriarchy, that shows the contempt for the upper classes of the working classes, this shows the need for socialism' - the study approach appears to be authored by the Momentum Group. The racism bit is Noughts and Crosses which has come up in her revision guides but she is not actually doing. Also war poems.

    To be fair she is also doing MacBeth which does not fit into that category.

    I never did it - I don't think it was compulsory in the 90s. I did English Language (which involved reading a book) but not English Literature. I never did any Shakespeare (not that I object to Shakespeare on principle - but like much of English Literature it seems at best to fall into the category of 'odd thing to make a compulsory aspect of 11-16 schooling').
    It is compulsory to do one form of English, in the sense that if you don't pass either Lang or Lit you have to resit it. That's all. Most schools however insist on two due to league tables particularly for brighter pupils (which from what you've said I assume your daughter is).
    I am doubly irritable because as a subject it is causing her more stress than all the other subjects combined, much to the bafflement of my wife who thinks Eng Lit is the easiest subject. My daughter has inherited my preferences for subjects in which there are right and wrong answers!
    Hah, same, it’s the reason I did Maths/Further Maths, Physics, and History at A-Level.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,364
    edited May 19
    War English Lit, huh, what is it good for....absolutely nuffin.

    I am joking btw.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    Foss said:

    a

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    This kind of stuff is why many devs have moved to OSX - which is a derivative of BSD Unix.

    Most servers in commercial application are Linux now.

    If Europe was serious about technological independence, a European company backing a maintained Linux distro for desktop, with easy setup, is almost trivial thing.

    Hell, the UK government could easily afford such - enough desktops in government.

    But it would take spending money to save money.
    Ubuntu/Canonical is London-based.

    SUSE used to be German, but it's long enough since I had to care about them that I've no idea whats happened with them.
    It’s not so much the Distro, it’s the apps that run on it and video and sound drivers have always been a nightmare.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    Sadly not, video calls are the sort of thing no one using Linux cares about.

    My advice nowadays is get a Mac - if you think Windows 11 is bad you haven’t seen 12 yet
    Thanks, that's depressing to hear.

    I have a mac. In fact, I have two, although both are rather elderly. Can Macs do major multiscreen setups now? That would be a requirement.
    Apple bit naughty with the multiple monitor support, artifically capping it with different chips. But M4 onwards can, if I remember correctly standard m4/m5 chip in macbook air = 2 external monitors, but mac mini can do 3 and the max chip in all devices can drive silly amount of external monitors, I think 5. These can all be ultra high res monitors like 5k. You can also always buy a displaylink dock that allows 3+ external monitors.

    Because of the shared memory between cpu and gpu, for a good experience, the real limiting factor is amount of RAM. But 16Gb should be plenty to drive multiple monitors with ease. The M series chips really are a revolution.
    Not anymore all M4/M5 machines can run 2 external monitors with the built in display also working
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 19
    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I think youth employment may see a sudden and significant short term increase.

    Growing signs in Devon and Cornwall, specifically Torbay of a stay cation boom.

    Concerns about Flights, Jet Fuel, Safety etc has seen what was sluggish and slow holiday occupancy rates June to October increase markedly in past few weeks.

    Very significant trend too from 7 day bookings to long weekend and 4 day midweek bookings.

    The Hospitality, Retail, Cleaning sector already starting to seek and advertise for summer staff having realised that their reduced staffing won't cope.

    It could be a bumper summer for UK tourism IF the weather plays ball.

    Mods - can I appeal for a ban on the term 'staycation' for anything other than a holiday where you stay in your own house? What Brixian appears to be describing is what many of us would describe as a 'holiday'.
    I’m afraid that sluggish lexical diesel train has long ago left the station. Staycation now means a holiday in one’s own country, and it is useful - we didn’t have a single word for this common phenomenon. Literally holidaying in your home is much less common, so the demand for a word wasn’t there. The market always wins

    Homestaycation? House-hols. Notgoingawaycation
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,364
    edited May 19
    eek said:

    Foss said:

    a

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    This kind of stuff is why many devs have moved to OSX - which is a derivative of BSD Unix.

    Most servers in commercial application are Linux now.

    If Europe was serious about technological independence, a European company backing a maintained Linux distro for desktop, with easy setup, is almost trivial thing.

    Hell, the UK government could easily afford such - enough desktops in government.

    But it would take spending money to save money.
    Ubuntu/Canonical is London-based.

    SUSE used to be German, but it's long enough since I had to care about them that I've no idea whats happened with them.
    It’s not so much the Distro, it’s the apps that run on it and video and sound drivers have always been a nightmare.
    Ubuntu has got a lot lot better all round for everything and even Nvidia support was much improved via the official drivers. Then they released the 5090 and forked the driver for 5090 and it sucks ass. I have a suspicion it is to try and get the sort of people using 5090 for ML to buy the enterprise cards.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,799
    SandraMc said:

    No poetry in English Literature GCSE?

    Don't even get me started.

    Q. What does the poet mean by x?
    A. Who knows? If he wanted to communicate what he meant, he would have written a concise essay, setting out his views and his reasons for them. Instead, he has vomited a lot of words on the page which neither rhyme nor scan and the meaning of which is shrouded in gnomic metaphor.

    I can also confirm that the poetry studied at GCSE is woke.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    What novels is she studying ?

    We did 1984 and also Twelfth Night.
    An Inspector Calls - it's all 'this shows the patriarchy, that shows the contempt for the upper classes of the working classes, this shows the need for socialism' - the study approach appears to be authored by the Momentum Group. The racism bit is Noughts and Crosses which has come up in her revision guides but she is not actually doing. Also war poems.

    To be fair she is also doing MacBeth which does not fit into that category.

    I never did it - I don't think it was compulsory in the 90s. I did English Language (which involved reading a book) but not English Literature. I never did any Shakespeare (not that I object to Shakespeare on principle - but like much of English Literature it seems at best to fall into the category of 'odd thing to make a compulsory aspect of 11-16 schooling').
    It is compulsory to do one form of English, in the sense that if you don't pass either Lang or Lit you have to resit it. That's all. Most schools however insist on two due to league tables particularly for brighter pupils (which from what you've said I assume your daughter is).
    I am doubly irritable because as a subject it is causing her more stress than all the other subjects combined, much to the bafflement of my wife who thinks Eng Lit is the easiest subject. My daughter has inherited my preferences for subjects in which there are right and wrong answers!
    It would be reasonable, in any review of the play, to say that Priestley was advocating socialism, and was criticising the level of inequality that existed in 1912.

    If your daughter is expected to treat socialism as being correct, in her answers, that would be wrong.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,364
    edited May 19
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    Sadly not, video calls are the sort of thing no one using Linux cares about.

    My advice nowadays is get a Mac - if you think Windows 11 is bad you haven’t seen 12 yet
    Thanks, that's depressing to hear.

    I have a mac. In fact, I have two, although both are rather elderly. Can Macs do major multiscreen setups now? That would be a requirement.
    Apple bit naughty with the multiple monitor support, artifically capping it with different chips. But M4 onwards can, if I remember correctly standard m4/m5 chip in macbook air = 2 external monitors, but mac mini can do 3 and the max chip in all devices can drive silly amount of external monitors, I think 5. These can all be ultra high res monitors like 5k. You can also always buy a displaylink dock that allows 3+ external monitors.

    Because of the shared memory between cpu and gpu, for a good experience, the real limiting factor is amount of RAM. But 16Gb should be plenty to drive multiple monitors with ease. The M series chips really are a revolution.
    Not anymore all M4/M5 machines can run 2 external monitors with the built in display also working
    "if I remember correctly standard m4/m5 chip in macbook air = 2 external monitors, but mac mini can do 3 and the max chip in all devices can drive silly amount of external monitors, I think 5"

    That is what I said 2 external monitors. They are still artifically capping it as it could drive more. Its was the M1/M2 they were super naughty about limiting it to 1 when the hardware can definitely run more.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,927
    eek said:

    Foss said:

    a

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    This kind of stuff is why many devs have moved to OSX - which is a derivative of BSD Unix.

    Most servers in commercial application are Linux now.

    If Europe was serious about technological independence, a European company backing a maintained Linux distro for desktop, with easy setup, is almost trivial thing.

    Hell, the UK government could easily afford such - enough desktops in government.

    But it would take spending money to save money.
    Ubuntu/Canonical is London-based.

    SUSE used to be German, but it's long enough since I had to care about them that I've no idea whats happened with them.
    It’s not so much the Distro, it’s the apps that run on it and video and sound drivers have always been a nightmare.
    I'm not sure that matters. The vast majority of people will never properly install an OS - they'll use what comes out of the box and any auto-updates it drags down. And if you're bundling an OS with hardware you can select for components that run nicely out of the box - like MacOS or Android.
  • In ten years no one will study English lit. In 15 years drooling people who can barely tie their laces will be amazed that people once read things called “books”
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,590

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    What novels is she studying ?

    We did 1984 and also Twelfth Night.
    An Inspector Calls - it's all 'this shows the patriarchy, that shows the contempt for the upper classes of the working classes, this shows the need for socialism' - the study approach appears to be authored by the Momentum Group. The racism bit is Noughts and Crosses which has come up in her revision guides but she is not actually doing. Also war poems.

    To be fair she is also doing MacBeth which does not fit into that category.

    I never did it - I don't think it was compulsory in the 90s. I did English Language (which involved reading a book) but not English Literature. I never did any Shakespeare (not that I object to Shakespeare on principle - but like much of English Literature it seems at best to fall into the category of 'odd thing to make a compulsory aspect of 11-16 schooling').
    It is compulsory to do one form of English, in the sense that if you don't pass either Lang or Lit you have to resit it. That's all. Most schools however insist on two due to league tables particularly for brighter pupils (which from what you've said I assume your daughter is).
    I am doubly irritable because as a subject it is causing her more stress than all the other subjects combined, much to the bafflement of my wife who thinks Eng Lit is the easiest subject. My daughter has inherited my preferences for subjects in which there are right and wrong answers!
    Hah, same, it’s the reason I did Maths/Further Maths, Physics, and History at A-Level.
    Right and wrong answers in History?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,364
    Its certainly a step up from Starmer's attempts at social media.

    https://x.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/2056452358809285006?s=20
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    Sadly not, video calls are the sort of thing no one using Linux cares about.

    My advice nowadays is get a Mac - if you think Windows 11 is bad you haven’t seen 12 yet
    Thanks, that's depressing to hear.

    I have a mac. In fact, I have two, although both are rather elderly. Can Macs do major multiscreen setups now? That would be a requirement.
    Apple bit naughty with the multiple monitor support, artifically capping it with different chips. But M4 onwards can, if I remember correctly standard m4/m5 chip in macbook air = 2 external monitors, but mac mini can do 3 and the max chip in all devices can drive silly amount of external monitors, I think 5. These can all be ultra high res monitors like 5k. You can also always buy a displaylink dock that allows 3+ external monitors.

    Because of the shared memory between cpu and gpu, for a good experience, the real limiting factor is amount of RAM. But 16Gb should be plenty to drive multiple monitors with ease. The M series chips really are a revolution.
    Not anymore all M4/M5 machines can run 2 external monitors with the built in display also working
    "if I remember correctly standard m4/m5 chip in macbook air = 2 external monitors, but mac mini can do 3 and the max chip in all devices can drive silly amount of external monitors, I think 5"

    That is what I said 2 external monitors. They are still artifically capping it as it could drive more.
    I don’t think it’s so much artificial as looking at memory bandwidth and going - got to put the limit here for things to work nicely
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,386
    edited May 19
    Foss said:

    a

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    This kind of stuff is why many devs have moved to OSX - which is a derivative of BSD Unix.

    Most servers in commercial application are Linux now.

    If Europe was serious about technological independence, a European company backing a maintained Linux distro for desktop, with easy setup, is almost trivial thing.

    Hell, the UK government could easily afford such - enough desktops in government.

    But it would take spending money to save money.
    Ubuntu/Canonical is London-based.

    SUSE used to be German, but it's long enough since I had to care about them that I've no idea whats happened with them.
    Weird double post. How did that happen?
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,386
    Foss said:

    a

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    This kind of stuff is why many devs have moved to OSX - which is a derivative of BSD Unix.

    Most servers in commercial application are Linux now.

    If Europe was serious about technological independence, a European company backing a maintained Linux distro for desktop, with easy setup, is almost trivial thing.

    Hell, the UK government could easily afford such - enough desktops in government.

    But it would take spending money to save money.
    Ubuntu/Canonical is London-based.

    SUSE used to be German, but it's long enough since I had to care about them that I've no idea whats happened with them.
    I used SUSE for a long time but eventually switched to Ubuntu due (I think, it's a while ago now) to its better support and stability. I'd recommend Ubuntu to any Linux newbie simply because there is so much support for it on the internet and it's pretty straightforward to set up. Device drivers are still an issue sometimes, but nowhere near the issue they used to be.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,364
    Andy Burnham ‘to reward’ Josh Simons with No 10 job, Labour sources claim

    https://x.com/kitty_donaldson/status/2056616676938936483?s=20

    Who could have guessed it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    edited May 19

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Morning all. Off thread but I'm feeling distinctly irritable. My daughter has her English Literature GCSE today and she's been rattling through it. Apparently English Literature is essentially a GCSE in woke: you have to split society up into bits and say who the goodies are (ethnic minorities and to a lesser extent the working classes) and who the baddies are (the patriarchy, white people, the bourgeoisie, the British.) This is a compulsory GCSE nowadays. Because some writer of fiction said so. How the fuck did we get here? I'm sure no other countries practice self-hatred to quite this degree.

    What novels is she studying ?

    We did 1984 and also Twelfth Night.
    An Inspector Calls - it's all 'this shows the patriarchy, that shows the contempt for the upper classes of the working classes, this shows the need for socialism' - the study approach appears to be authored by the Momentum Group. The racism bit is Noughts and Crosses which has come up in her revision guides but she is not actually doing. Also war poems.

    To be fair she is also doing MacBeth which does not fit into that category.

    I never did it - I don't think it was compulsory in the 90s. I did English Language (which involved reading a book) but not English Literature. I never did any Shakespeare (not that I object to Shakespeare on principle - but like much of English Literature it seems at best to fall into the category of 'odd thing to make a compulsory aspect of 11-16 schooling').
    It is compulsory to do one form of English, in the sense that if you don't pass either Lang or Lit you have to resit it. That's all. Most schools however insist on two due to league tables particularly for brighter pupils (which from what you've said I assume your daughter is).
    I am doubly irritable because as a subject it is causing her more stress than all the other subjects combined, much to the bafflement of my wife who thinks Eng Lit is the easiest subject. My daughter has inherited my preferences for subjects in which there are right and wrong answers!
    Hah, same, it’s the reason I did Maths/Further Maths, Physics, and History at A-Level.
    History is not a science, but if you approach the subject properly, you will follow some of the same rules as scientists (any claim of fact that is not common knowledge must be sourced, fact must be distinguished from hypothesis, and Occam's Razor applies). I love it as a subject.

    My impression is that English Lit is one of those subjects where you can get high marks for writing bullshit, so long as you write it elegantly enough.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,787
    My GCSE set texts were Hamlet, The Great Odes, and To Kill A Mockingbird.

    I was lucky with To Kill A Mockingbird that I had read that years earlier, the book that proves lawyers are the best.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    Foss said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    a

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    This kind of stuff is why many devs have moved to OSX - which is a derivative of BSD Unix.

    Most servers in commercial application are Linux now.

    If Europe was serious about technological independence, a European company backing a maintained Linux distro for desktop, with easy setup, is almost trivial thing.

    Hell, the UK government could easily afford such - enough desktops in government.

    But it would take spending money to save money.
    Ubuntu/Canonical is London-based.

    SUSE used to be German, but it's long enough since I had to care about them that I've no idea whats happened with them.
    It’s not so much the Distro, it’s the apps that run on it and video and sound drivers have always been a nightmare.
    I'm not sure that matters. The vast majority of people will never properly install an OS - they'll use what comes out of the box and any auto-updates it drags down. And if you're bundling an OS with hardware you can select for components that run nicely out of the box - like MacOS or Android.
    Oh I think most people probably need a decent browser, word processor, spreadsheet, mail client and video call tool and would be happy.

    I suspect it’s that last bit that would be painful, everything else is easily achievable in Chromium if nothing else works
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    Foss said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    a

    ydoethur said:

    OK, anyway, completely off topic

    On Sunday Microsoft did one of their legendary forced updates. This was without my consent and has totally buggered my computer. It's now taking multiple times to boot due to issues with the SATA drive and it's randomly deleting all my passwords including for the user accounts.

    So - I've had enough. THis is jsut ridiculous. And I can't get hold of the useless scum to complain.

    I'd like to look at Linux as an alternative. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mostly personal with a heavy emphasis on video calls for business. Computer is high spec with 48gb of RAM and a modern processor that has a built in TPM.

    This kind of stuff is why many devs have moved to OSX - which is a derivative of BSD Unix.

    Most servers in commercial application are Linux now.

    If Europe was serious about technological independence, a European company backing a maintained Linux distro for desktop, with easy setup, is almost trivial thing.

    Hell, the UK government could easily afford such - enough desktops in government.

    But it would take spending money to save money.
    Ubuntu/Canonical is London-based.

    SUSE used to be German, but it's long enough since I had to care about them that I've no idea whats happened with them.
    It’s not so much the Distro, it’s the apps that run on it and video and sound drivers have always been a nightmare.
    I'm not sure that matters. The vast majority of people will never properly install an OS - they'll use what comes out of the box and any auto-updates it drags down. And if you're bundling an OS with hardware you can select for components that run nicely out of the box - like MacOS or Android.
    Oh I think most people probably need a decent browser, word processor, spreadsheet, mail client and video call tool and would be happy.

    I suspect it’s that last bit that would be painful, everything else is easily achievable in Chromium if nothing else works
This discussion has been closed.