Andy Burnham voted for the Iraq War, an illegal war that killed over a million people.
As Health Secretary, he helped drive NHS privatisation.
He joined Labour Friends of Israel, opposed BDS as “spiteful”, praised Israel as a “democracy”, and called the Balfour Declaration “British values in action”. He is a Zionist.
Stop pretending he’s a radical alternative, he’s more of the same.
Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.
I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.
Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.
After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.
Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.
cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.
I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.
So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.
Yes. It is a term that first originated in Reconstruction-era USA. However, Burnham is not local by birth. He’s from Liverpool. He was parachuted into Leigh and now runs Manchester. If I was born in Sheffield, parachuted into Barnsley and now ran Leeds, that would not make me local by birth. I can assure you now it would it take some time to win over the good folk of Beeston or Hunslet. And even after 30 years they’d still eye with suspicion!
He wasn't "parachuted" into Leigh. Culcheth is pretty much a suburb of it. It's 2 miles away.
This is great fun. Vicious NW of England parochialism. Unexpected, but welcome.
Andy Burnham voted for the Iraq War, an illegal war that killed over a million people.
As Health Secretary, he helped drive NHS privatisation.
He joined Labour Friends of Israel, opposed BDS as “spiteful”, praised Israel as a “democracy”, and called the Balfour Declaration “British values in action”. He is a Zionist.
Stop pretending he’s a radical alternative, he’s more of the same.
Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.
I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.
Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.
After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.
Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.
cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.
I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.
So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.
Yes. It is a term that first originated in Reconstruction-era USA. However, Burnham is not local by birth. He’s from Liverpool. He was parachuted into Leigh and now runs Manchester. If I was born in Sheffield, parachuted into Barnsley and now ran Leeds, that would not make me local by birth. I can assure you now it would it take some time to win over the good folk of Beeston or Hunslet. And even after 30 years they’d still eye with suspicion!
He wasn't "parachuted" into Leigh. Culcheth is pretty much a suburb of it. It's 2 miles away.
This is great fun. Vicious NW of England parochialism. Unexpected, but welcome.
Andy Burnham voted for the Iraq War, an illegal war that killed over a million people.
As Health Secretary, he helped drive NHS privatisation.
He joined Labour Friends of Israel, opposed BDS as “spiteful”, praised Israel as a “democracy”, and called the Balfour Declaration “British values in action”. He is a Zionist.
Stop pretending he’s a radical alternative, he’s more of the same.
Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.
I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.
Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.
After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.
Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.
cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.
I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.
So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.
Yes. It is a term that first originated in Reconstruction-era USA. However, Burnham is not local by birth. He’s from Liverpool. He was parachuted into Leigh and now runs Manchester. If I was born in Sheffield, parachuted into Barnsley and now ran Leeds, that would not make me local by birth. I can assure you now it would it take some time to win over the good folk of Beeston or Hunslet. And even after 30 years they’d still eye with suspicion!
He wasn't "parachuted" into Leigh. Culcheth is pretty much a suburb of it. It's 2 miles away.
This is great fun. Vicious NW of England parochialism. Unexpected, but welcome.
Wait until you see Yorkshire parochialism.
You're good, Yorkshireman, but you're not that good. You could be magnificent!
Burnham will win this by election easily, it includes part of his old Leigh seat. Assuming the NEC follows Starmer's lead and allows him to be an approved Labour parliamentary candidate of course.
Starmer does seem though to believe Burnham can be brought into his cabinet without joining Streeting in a leadership challenge which might be a bit deluded
Or just maybe Starmer knows the game is up and would prefer to hand over to Burnham rather than any of the other likely candidates?
Yes, from Starmer's perspective Burnham is a dull bespectacled lad like him who likes his footie and is real Labour, not a preening Blairite ponceyboots back stabber like Streeting born and raised in London and too articulate for his own good
I'm not convinced the spectacles are a defining factor here.
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
The biggest news today is what might be the first step in dismantling the M8 as it passes through the centre of Glasgow. Would be a remarkably brave step to make and a ray of hope for urban areas all over the UK. It's happened before in Seoul, in the Netherlands, San Fran, Madrid, Paris.
Will the council face down the outrage across Facebook? I hope so.
That strikes me as a huge and very costly undertaking.
I think its the opposite - it'd be a huge and very costly undertaking to fix the affected section, so,...just give up. Route everything else round the city on the M74, even though there's not really the capacity to do it. Pretend that this is somehow the optimal solution.
Reform made the local elections as vote Reform to get rid of Starmer .
Burnham is standing to get rid of Starmer . Of course he has to be a bit careful not to alienate voters there who like Starmers , yes I know it might not be that many but still .
Yes, but there is a danger that Starmer gives him the kiss of death. If he doesn't oppose him - even makes it look like he wants him to win, that will feed Reform's campaign.
Oddly, what Burnham needs Starmer to do is allow him to stand, then switch into a war of words with him to allow Burnham to be the gallant knight slaying the dragon.
The dynamics of it are very odd. For me, Burnham is the favourite, but you just don't know. Reform will need a very good candidate.
Burnham will win this by election easily, it includes part of his old Leigh seat. Assuming the NEC follows Starmer's lead and allows him to be an approved Labour parliamentary candidate of course.
Starmer does seem though to believe Burnham can be brought into his cabinet without joining Streeting in a leadership challenge which might be a bit deluded
Or just maybe Starmer knows the game is up and would prefer to hand over to Burnham rather than any of the other likely candidates?
Yes, from Starmer's perspective Burnham is a dull bespectacled lad like him who likes his footie and is real Labour, not a preening Blairite ponceyboots back stabber like Streeting born and raised in London and too articulate for his own good
I'm not convinced the spectacles are a defining factor here.
Being a footie loving lad not a backstabbing ponceyboots like Wes though is
The biggest news today is what might be the first step in dismantling the M8 as it passes through the centre of Glasgow. Would be a remarkably brave step to make and a ray of hope for urban areas all over the UK. It's happened before in Seoul, in the Netherlands, San Fran, Madrid, Paris.
Will the council face down the outrage across Facebook? I hope so.
That strikes me as a huge and very costly undertaking.
I think its the opposite - it'd be a huge and very costly undertaking to fix the affected section, so,...just give up. Route everything else round the city on the M74, even though there's not really the capacity to do it. Pretend that this is somehow the optimal solution.
You do have to wonder if that'll turn out to be the plan for the urban M6 in Birmingham.
For those interested in the human rights of the Palestinians Andy Burnham is 100% kosher which Wes Streeting is not. My guess is this will serve him well in the by election and it should serve him well against Starmer and Streeting if they turn out to be his competition for Party leader.
NB. Israel was yesterday polled as the most disliked country in the world.
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
If Burnham wins by more than 5000 Labour would easily overtake Reform in the polls if he becomes PM
Burnham will win this by election easily, it includes part of his old Leigh seat. Assuming the NEC follows Starmer's lead and allows him to be an approved Labour parliamentary candidate of course.
Starmer does seem though to believe Burnham can be brought into his cabinet without joining Streeting in a leadership challenge which might be a bit deluded
Or just maybe Starmer knows the game is up and would prefer to hand over to Burnham rather than any of the other likely candidates?
Yes, from Starmer's perspective Burnham is a dull bespectacled lad like him who likes his footie and is real Labour, not a preening Blairite ponceyboots back stabber like Streeting born and raised in London and too articulate for his own good
I'm not convinced the spectacles are a defining factor here.
Being a footie loving lad not a backstabbing ponceyboots like Wes though is
I'd be careful about using the word 'ponceyboots' about a gay man.
I have to admit that Makerfield is a total blindspot to me, despite being Greater Manchester. I think I haven't been above the soil of that constituency at under 60mph. In fact, I've never visited anywhere in the borough of Wigan, ever. For a Tamesider, Wigan is so deep in the umbra of Town that you wouldn't ever think of a reason to go there. I always thought of Warrington as wholly Scouse (paired with Runcorn as per the adverts) and if the discussion of Wigan on here is two Everton fans, it massages my biases. It is to me as the A66 and Northamptonshire.
So you're saying Burnham is like a Glossopian trying to stand in Stalybridge & Hyde? Yeah, that works.
Burnham will win this by election easily, it includes part of his old Leigh seat. Assuming the NEC follows Starmer's lead and allows him to be an approved Labour parliamentary candidate of course.
Starmer does seem though to believe Burnham can be brought into his cabinet without joining Streeting in a leadership challenge which might be a bit deluded
Or just maybe Starmer knows the game is up and would prefer to hand over to Burnham rather than any of the other likely candidates?
Yes, from Starmer's perspective Burnham is a dull bespectacled lad like him who likes his footie and is real Labour, not a preening Blairite ponceyboots back stabber like Streeting born and raised in London and too articulate for his own good
I'm not convinced the spectacles are a defining factor here.
Being a footie loving lad not a backstabbing ponceyboots like Wes though is
I'd be careful about using the word 'ponceyboots' about a gay man.
Copyright Leon but Blair himself was also a ponceyboots and not gay but very articulate like Streeting, much more so than Starmer or Burnham. Brown of course was knocked out the way by Blair as Streeting wants to knock Starmer out the way
Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.
I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.
Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.
After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.
Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.
cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.
I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.
So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.
Yes. It is a term that first originated in Reconstruction-era USA. However, Burnham is not local by birth. He’s from Liverpool. He was parachuted into Leigh and now runs Manchester. If I was born in Sheffield, parachuted into Barnsley and now ran Leeds, that would not make me local by birth. I can assure you now it would it take some time to win over the good folk of Beeston or Hunslet. And even after 30 years they’d still eye with suspicion!
He wasn't "parachuted" into Leigh. Culcheth is pretty much a suburb of it. It's 2 miles away.
This is great fun. Vicious NW of England parochialism. Unexpected, but welcome.
Wait until you see Yorkshire parochialism.
Yorkshire parochialism is the finest parochialism there is.
We can view people from one street over with deep suspicion.
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Clever
*actually about 3 miles away but hey
I'm not sure being the only distillery on that site is a claim to fame - there would hardly be room for two.
It’s becoming pathological. I do feel the wheels are beginning to come off and he’s somewhat fortunate that there’s been so much attention on the Labour drama .
This also goes for Farage who has now changed his story from the money was for security to now as a reward for Brexit !
I would make two general observations. Firstly the news today is allegations that Farage paid for houses in cash. The buyer in this case has to state the source of their funds and if it's a gift the person making the gift has to vouch for the purpose of the gift before the purchase can be made.
Secondly the Bribery Act 2010 states a bribe is where a public servant in a position of trust, an MP for instance, obtains a financial or other advantage and then exercises their duty in an improper manner as understood by a reasonable person. If convicted the recipient and donor could expect a multi year prison sentence. Random people don't normally give MPs or soon-to-be MP £5 million for nothing. The purpose of such a gift is highly significant.
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
If Burnham wins by more than 5000 Labour would easily overtake Reform in the polls if he becomes PM
That’s nonsense
Where I do agree with @BartholomewRoberts is this: Makerfield is totally Sui generis
It’s such a unique set of circumstances I’d be wary of drawing any wider conclusion, especially from a Burnham victory. There could indeed a personal pro-Burnham, anti-Starmer vote which sees him cruise home but means absolutely noting in the wider national context
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Not a good value bet, 5,000 is massive in a by-election. He could easily win it and still win by less than 5,000.
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
For those interested in the human rights of the Palestinians Andy Burnham is 100% kosher which Wes Streeting is not. My guess is this will serve him well in the by election and it should serve him well against Starmer and Streeting if they turn out to be his competition for Party leader.
NB. Israel was yesterday polled as the most disliked country in the world.
One thing the new Labour leader has to do.
Be tough in Zionist Aggression
Be tough on Anti Semitism
Nail the lie perpetrated by the Zionists that the two are the same.
Tell The UK Jewish Council it will only get backing and support when it stands up and renounces Netanyahu and his barbarism
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
If Burnham wins by more than 5000 Labour would easily overtake Reform in the polls if he becomes PM
That’s nonsense
Where I do agree with @BartholomewRoberts is this: Makerfield is totally Sui generis
It’s such a unique set of circumstances I’d be wary of drawing any wider conclusion, especially from a Burnham victory. There could indeed a personal pro-Burnham, anti-Starmer vote which sees him cruise home but means absolutely noting in the wider national context
Of course it does. In the local elections Reform cruised to victory in Makerfield, if Labour now win it comfortably with Burnham that would be a devastating blow to Reform and Farage's hopes of victory at the next GE
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Not a good value bet, 5,000 is massive in a by-election. He could easily win it and still win by less than 5,000.
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
lol
So “he will win and win it big” and “it won’t even be close” somehow also means “he might win by 3,452 votes”
Reform made the local elections as vote Reform to get rid of Starmer .
Burnham is standing to get rid of Starmer . Of course he has to be a bit careful not to alienate voters there who like Starmers , yes I know it might not be that many but still .
Yes, but there is a danger that Starmer gives him the kiss of death. If he doesn't oppose him - even makes it look like he wants him to win, that will feed Reform's campaign.
Oddly, what Burnham needs Starmer to do is allow him to stand, then switch into a war of words with him to allow Burnham to be the gallant knight slaying the dragon.
The dynamics of it are very odd. For me, Burnham is the favourite, but you just don't know. Reform will need a very good candidate.
Aaron Banks Zia Yusuf Nick Candy
Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Not a good value bet, 5,000 is massive in a by-election. He could easily win it and still win by less than 5,000.
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
lol
So “he will win and win it big” and “it won’t even be close” somehow also means “he might win by 3,452 votes”
Weird how actual money pops hyperbolic balloons
Winning by over 10pp is both winning and winning big, yes.
I honestly find it fascinating how differently I see this to most on here. I have popped a small bet on Reform to win this seat. Let me explain briefly.
Reform are ahead on a generic ballot, I do not think that is controversial.
Starmer must have some Labour loyalists. This should depress the Labour vote at least a bit.
Some Conservative voters might not be too keen on the idea of shifting the government to the left.
Or of reviving the fortunes of the Labour party they wish to replace in government.
There are not that many Lib Dem/Green voters to squeeze.
Which means Andy needs direct Reform>Labour switchers. And the more split the Labour vote is, the more he will need.
So can he win, sure. But it looks more toss-up than sure thing to me, so I popped a few quid on Reform
I agree with all of that, except Starmer having the vote of Labour loyalists.
Even the dimmest of Starmer fans knows he is holed below the waterline.
For those interested in the human rights of the Palestinians Andy Burnham is 100% kosher which Wes Streeting is not. My guess is this will serve him well in the by election and it should serve him well against Starmer and Streeting if they turn out to be his competition for Party leader.
NB. Israel was yesterday polled as the most disliked country in the world.
Almost nobody in Makerfield will give a shiney shite about fucking Palestine.
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Clever
*actually about 3 miles away but hey
I'm not sure being the only distillery on that site is a claim to fame - there would hardly be room for two.
As I said, it’s “England’s only single malt distillery”. And apparently it is
A nice drop, as well. Not immortal but rather drinkable
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
I honestly find it fascinating how differently I see this to most on here. I have popped a small bet on Reform to win this seat. Let me explain briefly.
Reform are ahead on a generic ballot, I do not think that is controversial.
Starmer must have some Labour loyalists. This should depress the Labour vote at least a bit.
Some Conservative voters might not be too keen on the idea of shifting the government to the left.
Or of reviving the fortunes of the Labour party they wish to replace in government.
There are not that many Lib Dem/Green voters to squeeze.
Which means Andy needs direct Reform>Labour switchers. And the more split the Labour vote is, the more he will need.
So can he win, sure. But it looks more toss-up than sure thing to me, so I popped a few quid on Reform
I agree with all of that, except Starmer having the vote of Labour loyalists.
Even the dimmest of Starmer fans knows he is holed below the waterline.
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Not a good value bet, 5,000 is massive in a by-election. He could easily win it and still win by less than 5,000.
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
lol
So “he will win and win it big” and “it won’t even be close” somehow also means “he might win by 3,452 votes”
Weird how actual money pops hyperbolic balloons
Hang on: "I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens "
So presumably a fair bet would be Burnham wins: Barty wins the bet; Burnham loses: you win the bet?
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Clever
*actually about 3 miles away but hey
I'm not sure being the only distillery on that site is a claim to fame - there would hardly be room for two.
As I said, it’s “England’s only single malt distillery”. And apparently it is
A nice drop, as well. Not immortal but rather drinkable
There's another single malt distillery just outside of Filey.
Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.
I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.
Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.
After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.
Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.
cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.
I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.
So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.
Yes. It is a term that first originated in Reconstruction-era USA. However, Burnham is not local by birth. He’s from Liverpool. He was parachuted into Leigh and now runs Manchester. If I was born in Sheffield, parachuted into Barnsley and now ran Leeds, that would not make me local by birth. I can assure you now it would it take some time to win over the good folk of Beeston or Hunslet. And even after 30 years they’d still eye with suspicion!
He wasn't "parachuted" into Leigh. Culcheth is pretty much a suburb of it. It's 2 miles away.
This is great fun. Vicious NW of England parochialism. Unexpected, but welcome.
I enjoy a bit of NW parochialism as much as the next man, but this is people from the NW saying actually the boundary between our settlements is pretty blurry and unimportant. The poster who is being NWly parochial is from Yorkshire!
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Not a good value bet, 5,000 is massive in a by-election. He could easily win it and still win by less than 5,000.
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
So what's your view on turnout?
My guess is low since some people will view it as unnecessary and self-indulgent.
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Not a good value bet, 5,000 is massive in a by-election. He could easily win it and still win by less than 5,000.
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
lol
So “he will win and win it big” and “it won’t even be close” somehow also means “he might win by 3,452 votes”
Weird how actual money pops hyperbolic balloons
Hang on: "I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens "
So presumably a fair bet would be Burnham wins: Barty wins the bet. Burnham loses: you win the bet?
I was trying to draw out the real convictions underlying @BartholomewRoberts more excitable statements
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Clever
*actually about 3 miles away but hey
I'm not sure being the only distillery on that site is a claim to fame - there would hardly be room for two.
As I said, it’s “England’s only single malt distillery”. And apparently it is
A nice drop, as well. Not immortal but rather drinkable
There's a very palatable award winning single malt made in Norfolk.
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Clever
*actually about 3 miles away but hey
I have drank whiskey in that very room.
Did you have the puds? The puds are good. And the Craster kipper pate is splendid
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Not a good value bet, 5,000 is massive in a by-election. He could easily win it and still win by less than 5,000.
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
lol
So “he will win and win it big” and “it won’t even be close” somehow also means “he might win by 3,452 votes”
Weird how actual money pops hyperbolic balloons
Hang on: "I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens "
So presumably a fair bet would be Burnham wins: Barty wins the bet. Burnham loses: you win the bet?
I was trying to draw out the real convictions underlying @BartholomewRoberts more excitable statements
I believe I succeeded
The real conviction is the belief that people have had enough of Starmer and enough people will vote for him to be ousted by Burnham. Especially locally.
Reform aren't even the story. The story is "do you want Burnham to challenge Starmer" to which enough people will say "dear god, yes, get rid of Starmer".
If you took off your Reform-obsessive goggles you'd know that I am right too. Enough people frigging despise Starmer to want him gone this way. Hence why you're shifting the goalposts from "winning" to "winning by absurd numbers for a by-election".
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Clever
*actually about 3 miles away but hey
I'm not sure being the only distillery on that site is a claim to fame - there would hardly be room for two.
As I said, it’s “England’s only single malt distillery”. And apparently it is
A nice drop, as well. Not immortal but rather drinkable
For those interested in the human rights of the Palestinians Andy Burnham is 100% kosher which Wes Streeting is not. My guess is this will serve him well in the by election and it should serve him well against Starmer and Streeting if they turn out to be his competition for Party leader.
NB. Israel was yesterday polled as the most disliked country in the world.
Almost nobody in Makerfield will give a shiney shite about fucking Palestine.
Though at least it's not London - so they won't actively dislike him for mentioning it ;-)
Andy Burnham voted for the Iraq War, an illegal war that killed over a million people.
As Health Secretary, he helped drive NHS privatisation.
He joined Labour Friends of Israel, opposed BDS as “spiteful”, praised Israel as a “democracy”, and called the Balfour Declaration “British values in action”. He is a Zionist.
Stop pretending he’s a radical alternative, he’s more of the same.
For those interested in the human rights of the Palestinians Andy Burnham is 100% kosher which Wes Streeting is not. My guess is this will serve him well in the by election and it should serve him well against Starmer and Streeting if they turn out to be his competition for Party leader.
NB. Israel was yesterday polled as the most disliked country in the world.
Do you think it's Allah's will that Israel exists?
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Not a good value bet, 5,000 is massive in a by-election. He could easily win it and still win by less than 5,000.
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
lol
So “he will win and win it big” and “it won’t even be close” somehow also means “he might win by 3,452 votes”
Weird how actual money pops hyperbolic balloons
Hang on: "I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens "
So presumably a fair bet would be Burnham wins: Barty wins the bet. Burnham loses: you win the bet?
I was trying to draw out the real convictions underlying @BartholomewRoberts more excitable statements
I believe I succeeded
And in so doing showed up your level of conviction to it likely being very close.
(Btw am I the only one on here who hates the widespread adoption of 'likely' for probably? I probably am.)
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Clever
*actually about 3 miles away but hey
I'm not sure being the only distillery on that site is a claim to fame - there would hardly be room for two.
As I said, it’s “England’s only single malt distillery”. And apparently it is
A nice drop, as well. Not immortal but rather drinkable
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Not a good value bet, 5,000 is massive in a by-election. He could easily win it and still win by less than 5,000.
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
lol
So “he will win and win it big” and “it won’t even be close” somehow also means “he might win by 3,452 votes”
Weird how actual money pops hyperbolic balloons
"it will likely be very close" suddenly becomes, "Reform could lose by 4,500 votes."
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Clever
*actually about 3 miles away but hey
I'm not sure being the only distillery on that site is a claim to fame - there would hardly be room for two.
As I said, it’s “England’s only single malt distillery”. And apparently it is
A nice drop, as well. Not immortal but rather drinkable
For those interested in the human rights of the Palestinians Andy Burnham is 100% kosher which Wes Streeting is not. My guess is this will serve him well in the by election and it should serve him well against Starmer and Streeting if they turn out to be his competition for Party leader.
NB. Israel was yesterday polled as the most disliked country in the world.
One thing the new Labour leader has to do.
Be tough in Zionist Aggression
Be tough on Anti Semitism
Nail the lie perpetrated by the Zionists that the two are the same.
Tell The UK Jewish Council it will only get backing and support when it stands up and renounces Netanyahu and his barbarism
You can criticise Netanyahu, the Israeli government and the conduct of the war without any issue at all. Plenty of Israelis and British Jews do exactly that.
Where people get into trouble is when criticism of a government turns into talk about “lies perpetrated by the Zionists” or demands that Jewish organisations must denounce Israel before they deserve support.
Opposing antisemitism and opposing the actions of Netanyahu’s government are not contradictory positions unless someone is determined to make them so.
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Clever
*actually about 3 miles away but hey
I'm not sure being the only distillery on that site is a claim to fame - there would hardly be room for two.
As I said, it’s “England’s only single malt distillery”. And apparently it is
A nice drop, as well. Not immortal but rather drinkable
There's a very palatable award winning single malt made in Norfolk.
@Leon_VotedForStarmer is talking nonsense (as usual). There are plenty of single malts made in England. I'm not a whisky drinker but I can think of about a dozen.
Edit Just looked it up Google AI says there are over 24 English brands.
Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.
I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.
Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.
After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.
Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.
cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.
I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.
So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.
Yes. It is a term that first originated in Reconstruction-era USA. However, Burnham is not local by birth. He’s from Liverpool. He was parachuted into Leigh and now runs Manchester. If I was born in Sheffield, parachuted into Barnsley and now ran Leeds, that would not make me local by birth. I can assure you now it would it take some time to win over the good folk of Beeston or Hunslet. And even after 30 years they’d still eye with suspicion!
For those interested in the human rights of the Palestinians Andy Burnham is 100% kosher which Wes Streeting is not. My guess is this will serve him well in the by election and it should serve him well against Starmer and Streeting if they turn out to be his competition for Party leader.
NB. Israel was yesterday polled as the most disliked country in the world.
Do you think it's Allah's will that Israel exists?
If Allah is all powerful, then presumably it is Allah's will that Israel exists and is expanding into Palestine. But also Allah's will that Palestine launched a massive murderous attack into it on Oct 7th last year. All part of thr olan, presumably. Funny bloke, Allah. Or it could all just be bollocks. You choose.
For those interested in the human rights of the Palestinians Andy Burnham is 100% kosher which Wes Streeting is not. My guess is this will serve him well in the by election and it should serve him well against Starmer and Streeting if they turn out to be his competition for Party leader.
NB. Israel was yesterday polled as the most disliked country in the world.
Do you think it's Allah's will that Israel exists?
If Allah is all powerful, then presumably it is Allah's will that Israel exists and is expanding into Palestine. But also Allah's will that Palestine launched a massive murderous attack into it on Oct 7th last year. All part of thr olan, presumably. Funny bloke, Allah. Or it could all just be bollocks. You choose.
My money is on "all bollocks", but some guy once took LSD and claimed to see God while his neurons were completely fried. So, who knows?
Last week we had "Vote Reform to get rid of Starmer"
In the by-election it will be "Don't vote Reform to get rid of Starmer"
It would be so funny to see Mr Arrogant's bubble burst in a defeat at the hands of Reform.
Funniest of all for Starmer who would then likely beat Streeting in any leadership contest with Labour members and be secure as PM until the next GE. Given the Burnham positive polls though he should win
Last week we had "Vote Reform to get rid of Starmer"
In the by-election it will be "Don't vote Reform to get rid of Starmer"
It would be so funny to see Mr Arrogant's bubble burst in a defeat at the hands of Reform.
Funniest of all for Starmer who would then likely beat Streeting in any leadership contest with Labour members and be secure as PM until the next GE. Given the Burnham positive polls though he should win
Starmer would only be secure until next Summer, when another leadership challenge would undoubtedly come in.
What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.
This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.
This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.
They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2
A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”
On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.
I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.
This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.
Reform aren't even the story.
Fair enough. In the spirit of PB shall we have a bet on it? You are convinced he will easily walk it. I feel it will be close. You could be right however, I’m definitely not northern
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Not a good value bet, 5,000 is massive in a by-election. He could easily win it and still win by less than 5,000.
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
lol
So “he will win and win it big” and “it won’t even be close” somehow also means “he might win by 3,452 votes”
Weird how actual money pops hyperbolic balloons
"it will likely be very close" suddenly becomes, "Reform could lose by 4,500 votes."
You're a self-parody.
These are “massive” by election wins in the last few years by raw vote margin:
To me a massive victory where the result is “not even close” is in that bracket. Over 5,000. Which is why I chose that number to see what @BartholomewRoberts really thinks
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Blue Labour source: “We aren't endorsing individual candidates but Josh has done the right thing. Labour has a fundamental choice: whether to become more firmly entrenched as the party of comfortable graduates in cities, or reorient itself to working class people and places. The next few months will define the future of our party.”
It’ll be interesting to hear more about Shabana Mahmood’s role in all of this
Narrator: The graduates, at least the younger ones, aren't comfortable. There are flooding to the Greens partly because they think everything is shit and their student debt is mental and they will never get a house.
It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People
As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze
Clever
*actually about 3 miles away but hey
I'm not sure being the only distillery on that site is a claim to fame - there would hardly be room for two.
As I said, it’s “England’s only single malt distillery”. And apparently it is
A nice drop, as well. Not immortal but rather drinkable
That’s interesting because I’m pretty sure they made that claim to us at Ad Gefrin. Yet they’re not even on that list! Let me check their blurbs
The qualifier is probably makes the claim undeniably true though:
"England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace"
Like it. Add something that is unique so that the something that isn't at all, sounds like it is. It is an old ploy.
The USS Constitution makes a similar misleading claim: 'The oldest commissioned warship' with 'still afloat' tagged on. When I visited it I mentioned HMS Victory. They obviously get that a lot and quickly pointed out the 'still afloat' part.
Comments
As Health Secretary, he helped drive NHS privatisation.
He joined Labour Friends of Israel, opposed BDS as “spiteful”, praised Israel as a “democracy”, and called the Balfour Declaration “British values in action”. He is a Zionist.
Stop pretending he’s a radical alternative, he’s more of the same.
https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2054966896852697374
How about £20 on the margin of his victory? Less than 5,000 I win; more than 5,000 you win
Oddly, what Burnham needs Starmer to do is allow him to stand, then switch into a war of words with him to allow Burnham to be the gallant knight slaying the dragon.
The dynamics of it are very odd. For me, Burnham is the favourite, but you just don't know. Reform will need a very good candidate.
NB. Israel was yesterday polled as the most disliked country in the world.
So you're saying Burnham is like a Glossopian trying to stand in Stalybridge & Hyde? Yeah, that works.
We can view people from one street over with deep suspicion.
Secondly the Bribery Act 2010 states a bribe is where a public servant in a position of trust, an MP for instance, obtains a financial or other advantage and then exercises their duty in an improper manner as understood by a reasonable person. If convicted the recipient and donor could expect a multi year prison sentence. Random people don't normally give MPs or soon-to-be MP £5 million for nothing. The purpose of such a gift is highly significant.
Where I do agree with @BartholomewRoberts is this: Makerfield is totally Sui generis
It’s such a unique set of circumstances I’d be wary of drawing any wider conclusion, especially from a Burnham victory. There could indeed a personal pro-Burnham, anti-Starmer vote which sees him cruise home but means absolutely noting in the wider national context
The Greens won Gorton by a massive 12pp and won by less than 5k.
Be tough in Zionist Aggression
Be tough on Anti Semitism
Nail the lie perpetrated by the Zionists that the two are the same.
Tell The UK Jewish Council it will only get backing and support when it stands up and renounces Netanyahu and his barbarism
Anyway, if he wins this by-election Labour must be favourites for next GE
So “he will win and win it big” and “it won’t even be close” somehow also means “he might win by 3,452 votes”
Weird how actual money pops hyperbolic balloons
Zia Yusuf
Nick Candy
Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough
Even the dimmest of Starmer fans knows he is holed below the waterline.
A nice drop, as well. Not immortal but rather drinkable
So presumably a fair bet would be Burnham wins: Barty wins the bet; Burnham loses: you win the bet?
My guess is low since some people will view it as unnecessary and self-indulgent.
I believe I succeeded
https://www.englishwhisky.co.uk/pages/our-story
https://metro.co.uk/2026/05/14/newly-elected-reform-councillor-a-gay-porn-star-28366770/
Reform aren't even the story. The story is "do you want Burnham to challenge Starmer" to which enough people will say "dear god, yes, get rid of Starmer".
If you took off your Reform-obsessive goggles you'd know that I am right too. Enough people frigging despise Starmer to want him gone this way. Hence why you're shifting the goalposts from "winning" to "winning by absurd numbers for a by-election".
The only thing that makes me doubt that it is orchestrated is that Labour might not be capable of that level of coordination!
Though coming up with an appropriate form of words feels like an excellent question for a postgraduate exam in political chicanery.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2055011762802667721
Farage is lying
He’ll resign before bothering. There’s not any chance Starmer can beat him.
@hoffman_noa
EXCL: Reform UK will open its candidate selection for Makerfield TONIGHT and applications will close this SUNDAY.
A Reform source said: “We’re not wasting any time.”
(Btw am I the only one on here who hates the widespread adoption of 'likely' for probably? I probably am.)
You're a self-parody.
"England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace"
Where people get into trouble is when criticism of a government turns into talk about “lies perpetrated by the Zionists” or demands that Jewish organisations must denounce Israel before they deserve support.
Opposing antisemitism and opposing the actions of Netanyahu’s government are not contradictory positions unless someone is determined to make them so.
Edit Just looked it up Google AI says there are over 24 English brands.
Or it could all just be bollocks. You choose.
In the by-election it will be "Don't vote Reform to get rid of Starmer"
It would be so funny to see Mr Arrogant's bubble burst in a defeat at the hands of Reform.
That’s my opinion. He’s an egotistical arsehole. He reeks of self importance and entitlement.
Chesham, 2021: 8,028 votes
Hartlepool, 2024: 6,940 votes
Wellingborough, 2024: 6,436 votes
Tiverton, 2024: 6,144 votes
To me a massive victory where the result is “not even close” is in that bracket. Over 5,000. Which is why I chose that number to see what @BartholomewRoberts really thinks
@siennamarla
Blue Labour source: “We aren't endorsing individual candidates but Josh has done the right thing. Labour has a fundamental choice: whether to become more firmly entrenched as the party of comfortable graduates in cities, or reorient itself to working class people and places. The next few months will define the future of our party.”
It’ll be interesting to hear more about Shabana Mahmood’s role in all of this
https://x.com/siennamarla/status/2054995876334936441
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Narrator: The graduates, at least the younger ones, aren't comfortable. There are flooding to the Greens partly because they think everything is shit and their student debt is mental and they will never get a house.
A few £hunded and he'd say almost anything.
The USS Constitution makes a similar misleading claim: 'The oldest commissioned warship' with 'still afloat' tagged on. When I visited it I mentioned HMS Victory. They obviously get that a lot and quickly pointed out the 'still afloat' part.