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Labour are the favourites to win the Makerfield by-election – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,170
edited May 14 in General
Labour are the favourites to win the Makerfield by-election – politicalbetting.com

EXCLUSIVE Sir Keir Starmer will not seek to block Andy Burnham from becoming the Labour candidate in Makerfield, the BBC understands.An ally of Keir Starmer said: “Keir is focused on bringing the party together so it can tackle the issues facing working families.”

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,305
    Andy's attempt at first.
  • MartinVegasMartinVegas Posts: 62
    edited May 14
    FPT
    BobSykes said:



    But if he lives where i believe he lives on the fringe of Golborne, he's in Leigh and Atherton (and was formerly its MP of course, logically) not in Makerfield.

    Hmm, I'm sure I heard locally that he lives in Bamfurlong but that quote about the East Lancs road definitely puts him in Golborne.

    However, Golborne is so close as to almost not matter. And the very important thing is he dosen't live across the East Lancs in Newtown-Le-Willows which is the 'posh' bit in the area, so he can't be painted as (much as) a champagne socialist.

    I'll also say that if Reform are serious about getting a local candidate, Burnham might win at a canter. The most visible local Reform councillor, (Maureen O Bern) n Wigan is a Happy Shopper version of Pauline Hanson, and if they nominate someone like her, I could easily see it backfire when she opens her mouth.
  • So blocking Burnham in the first place was for?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579
    Reform feel like value here.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011

    So blocking Burnham in the first place was for?

    nothing.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,025
    I imagine the pollsters are furiously polling Makerfield as we speak. I imagine AB has done some private polling also
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,025
    edited May 14
    Snip
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424

    MaxPB said:

    Reform feel like value here.

    Not to me.

    What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.

    This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.

    This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own.

    They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
    Yep. And then the leadership election becomes a swift coronation.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    It will be interesting who canvasses with him including Rayner and Nandy and maybe Gary Neville

    This is box office and I just have an instinctive feeling Burnham will win
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726
    So when do Reform start boosting Mid Staffs?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,025

    MaxPB said:

    Reform feel like value here.

    Not to me.

    What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.

    This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.

    This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.

    They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
    You don’t have any doubt at all?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424

    So blocking Burnham in the first place was for?

    Making Labour’s local election prospects significantly worse, both by pissing off soft left Labour voters and giving the Greens the best possible pre-election boost, hence cutting Starmer’s premiership off at the feet.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834

    MaxPB said:

    Reform feel like value here.

    Not to me.

    What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.

    This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.

    This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.

    They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
    The situation now is not really comparable to 2019. The Brexit Party rise and fall was based on the single issue of Brexit being delayed and they never had the kind of sustained leads in national polls that they have at the moment.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,781

    MaxPB said:

    Reform feel like value here.

    Not to me.

    What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.

    This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.

    This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.

    They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
    You don’t have any doubt at all?
    There is always doubt, but it is a "Lib Dems could win most seats at next election" level of doubt.

    Any other circumstances for the by-election, I think Reform would walk this. But these circumstances? A chance to kick out Starmer and replace him with a local whom is far more respected than Starmer is?

    It won't even be close.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,858
    Burnham will win this by election easily, it includes part of his old Leigh seat. Assuming the NEC follows Starmer's lead and allows him to be an approved Labour parliamentary candidate of course.

    Starmer does seem though to believe Burnham can be brought into his cabinet without joining Streeting in a leadership challenge which might be a bit deluded
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,552

    FPT

    BobSykes said:



    But if he lives where i believe he lives on the fringe of Golborne, he's in Leigh and Atherton (and was formerly its MP of course, logically) not in Makerfield.

    Hmm, I'm sure I heard locally that he lives in Bamfurlong but that quote about the East Lancs road definitely puts him in Golborne.

    However, Golborne is so close as to almost not matter. And the very important thing is he dosen't live across the East Lancs in Newtown-Le-Willows which is the 'posh' bit in the area, so he can't be painted as (much as) a champagne socialist.

    I'll also say that if Reform are serious about getting a local candidate, Burnham might win at a canter. The most visible local Reform councillor, (Maureen O Bern) n Wigan is a Happy Shopper version of Pauline Hanson, and if they nominate someone like her, I could easily see it backfire when she opens her mouth.
    I think he lives in Lowton Common.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,355
    edited May 14
    An ally of Keir Starmer said: “Keir is focused on bringing the party together so it can tackle the issues facing working families.”

    It never seems to occur to Keir, or anyone else in Labour, that THEY are the biggest issue facing working families, and that their best service to those whose interests they claim to be serving would be to resign and hand over to people who don't think that working families only include public sector workers and benefit claimants.
  • Heh I guess I was right to bet on Burnham
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    HYUFD said:

    Burnham will win this by election easily, it includes part of his old Leigh seat. Assuming the NEC follows Starmer's lead and allows him to be an approved Labour parliamentary candidate of course.

    Starmer does seem though to believe Burnham can be brought into his cabinet without joining Streeting in a leadership challenge which might be a bit deluded

    Or just maybe Starmer knows the game is up and would prefer to hand over to Burnham rather than any of the other likely candidates?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193

    MaxPB said:

    Reform feel like value here.

    Not to me.

    What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.

    This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.

    This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.

    They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
    You don’t have any doubt at all?
    There is always doubt, but it is a "Lib Dems could win most seats at next election" level of doubt.

    Any other circumstances for the by-election, I think Reform would walk this. But these circumstances? A chance to kick out Starmer and replace him with a local whom is far more respected than Starmer is?

    It won't even be close.
    You think a majority for Burnham of more than 10pp, then, or larger?

    It will be interesting to see how Reform campaign. Farage has today said that Reform will throw everything at the seat, and they were similarly bullish at the start of the Gorton and Denton campaign. And then it seemed as though Farage avoided the place when he realised Reform weren't going to win.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    What happens if Streeting does have the 81 nominations? He's not going to wait for Burnham is he?

    OTOH if he didn't have them this afternoon, he's not going to get them now.
  • Has there ever been a by-election where the people are voting for the next PM?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,832
    Foss said:

    So when do Reform start boosting Mid Staffs?

    Reform campaigning on the NHS would be "a courageous decision" in the language of Yes Minister.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,750
    FPT

    I would love it if Reform win, just to see the look on Andy Burnham's face. Love it!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    edited May 14

    Has there ever been a by-election where the people are voting for the next PM?

    As I noted in the header the Kinross and Western Perthshire by-election is the closest to today's events.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011

    FPT

    I would love it if Reform win, just to see the look on Andy Burnham's face. Love it!

    Ok Kevin, calm down.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726
    Foxy said:

    Foss said:

    So when do Reform start boosting Mid Staffs?

    Reform campaigning on the NHS would be "a courageous decision" in the language of Yes Minister.
    They don't need to campaign on it, they just need to have their outriders bring it up.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193

    Has there ever been a by-election where the people are voting for the next PM?

    Kinda.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_Kinross_and_Western_Perthshire_by-election
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,832

    What happens if Streeting does have the 81 nominations? He's not going to wait for Burnham is he?

    OTOH if he didn't have them this afternoon, he's not going to get them now.

    He said he wants the widest possible field.

    This all looks highly orchestrated between the major figures, including Streeting and perhaps even Starmer himself.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 132
    I honestly find it fascinating how differently I see this to most on here. I have popped a small bet on Reform to win this seat. Let me explain briefly.

    Reform are ahead on a generic ballot, I do not think that is controversial.

    Starmer must have some Labour loyalists. This should depress the Labour vote at least a bit.

    Some Conservative voters might not be too keen on the idea of shifting the government to the left.

    Or of reviving the fortunes of the Labour party they wish to replace in government.

    There are not that many Lib Dem/Green voters to squeeze.

    Which means Andy needs direct Reform>Labour switchers. And the more split the Labour vote is, the more he will need.

    So can he win, sure. But it looks more toss-up than sure thing to me, so I popped a few quid on Reform
  • I don’t think Starmer will stand in the leadership election. Burnham will destroy him.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011

    Has there ever been a by-election where the people are voting for the next PM?

    Sort of, although strictly speaking the Earl of Home was already PM.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Douglas-Home#Prime_Minister_(1963–1964)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    One thing for sure.
    If the Labour candidate isn't Burnham then Reform cruise it.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320
    Why does Polanski keep lying ?

    It’s becoming pathological. I do feel the wheels are beginning to come off and he’s somewhat fortunate that there’s been so much attention on the Labour drama .

    This also goes for Farage who has now changed his story from the money was for security to now as a reward for Brexit !


  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,938

    MaxPB said:

    Reform feel like value here.

    Not to me.

    What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.

    This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.

    This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.

    They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
    Another way of looking it - Reform voters at the council elections were voting for change.

    Burnham can pitch as the candidate for change now whereas Reform can only pitch as possible change in 2029.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,552

    FPT

    I would love it if Reform win, just to see the look on Andy Burnham's face. Love it!

    Ok Kevin, calm down.
    In all seriousness this sentiment may drive a not insignificant share of the vote.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,750
    Isn't Andy Burnham just Starmer with mascara and a Northern accent?

    :lol:
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,027
    Step 1) Avoid Streeting triggering an early leadership election before you return to Parliament. Check.

    Step 2) Find a Manchester MP to stand down for you to compete in a by election. Check.

    Step 3) Be approved as Labour's candidate by the NEC given how weakened Starmer is. Check.

    So all that's left is

    Step 4) Win by election. I think he will. People like locals and like to be a part of history by electing the next PM. But it could go either way.

    Step 5) Win leadership contest. To be honest, after watching the last few days play out I wouldn't be surprised if Burnham was uncontested other than Starmer. Miliband won't go against Burnham. Streeting may not have the numbers. Raynor could but may want a united soft left. In any case, it'll be a walk in the park after a successful Step 4.

    So the question of our next PM all comes down to the will of the people of Makerfield!
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,791
    There are five million reasons not to vote for Farage's party.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193

    Has there ever been a by-election where the people are voting for the next PM?

    Sort of, although strictly speaking the Earl of Home was already PM.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Douglas-Home#Prime_Minister_(1963–1964)
    Fixed the link for you!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,878

    Isn't Andy Burnham just Starmer with mascara and a Northern accent?

    :lol:

    No, a much more flimsy affair.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    edited May 14
    trukat said:

    I honestly find it fascinating how differently I see this to most on here. I have popped a small bet on Reform to win this seat. Let me explain briefly.

    Reform are ahead on a generic ballot, I do not think that is controversial.

    Starmer must have some Labour loyalists. This should depress the Labour vote at least a bit.

    Some Conservative voters might not be too keen on the idea of shifting the government to the left.

    Or of reviving the fortunes of the Labour party they wish to replace in government.

    There are not that many Lib Dem/Green voters to squeeze.

    Which means Andy needs direct Reform>Labour switchers. And the more split the Labour vote is, the more he will need.

    So can he win, sure. But it looks more toss-up than sure thing to me, so I popped a few quid on Reform

    Burnham has always fallen short when the pressure has really been on him in the past.

    A mayoral contest is politics on easy mode compared with competing for national leadership, so there's a possibility his currently elevated image won't survive the scrutiny of a by-election campaign.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,858
    edited May 14
    If Starmer goes, the UK will now have had more PMs since 2020 than Italy and Japan and will match the Australian turnover of PMs between 2010 and 2018
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,187

    FPT

    BobSykes said:



    But if he lives where i believe he lives on the fringe of Golborne, he's in Leigh and Atherton (and was formerly its MP of course, logically) not in Makerfield.

    Hmm, I'm sure I heard locally that he lives in Bamfurlong but that quote about the East Lancs road definitely puts him in Golborne.

    A few years ago i was on a work outing at Haydock races, afterwards when we turned on to the East Lancs Rd heading back to Manchester a colleague formerly from those parts pointed across the fields to a row of houses and said "Andy Burnham lives in that one". Then i read the piece i linked in The Times last Christmas and it basically confirmed it.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,284
    The biggest news today is what might be the first step in dismantling the M8 as it passes through the centre of Glasgow. Would be a remarkably brave step to make and a ray of hope for urban areas all over the UK. It's happened before in Seoul, in the Netherlands, San Fran, Madrid, Paris.

    Will the council face down the outrage across Facebook? I hope so.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,878

    trukat said:

    I honestly find it fascinating how differently I see this to most on here. I have popped a small bet on Reform to win this seat. Let me explain briefly.

    Reform are ahead on a generic ballot, I do not think that is controversial.

    Starmer must have some Labour loyalists. This should depress the Labour vote at least a bit.

    Some Conservative voters might not be too keen on the idea of shifting the government to the left.

    Or of reviving the fortunes of the Labour party they wish to replace in government.

    There are not that many Lib Dem/Green voters to squeeze.

    Which means Andy needs direct Reform>Labour switchers. And the more split the Labour vote is, the more he will need.

    So can he win, sure. But it looks more toss-up than sure thing to me, so I popped a few quid on Reform

    Burnham has always falled short when the pressure has really been on him in the past.

    A mayoral contest is politics on easy mode compared with competing for national leadership, so there's a possibility his currently elevated image won't survive the scrutiny of a by-election campaign.
    Prime-minister by flavour-of-the-month members poll seems unlikely to be a winning political theme.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 320
    edited May 14
    Cookie said:

    FPT

    I would love it if Reform win, just to see the look on Andy Burnham's face. Love it!

    Ok Kevin, calm down.
    In all seriousness this sentiment may drive a not insignificant share of the vote.
    I can see it now, his swollen eyes and crest fallen face as he stands on the stage of a dimly lit sports hall at 3am on a Friday morning. His political career comes to an end whilst stood next to a man with a bin on his head.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,128
    nico67 said:

    Why does Polanski keep lying ?

    It’s becoming pathological. I do feel the wheels are beginning to come off and he’s somewhat fortunate that there’s been so much attention on the Labour drama .

    This also goes for Farage who has now changed his story from the money was for security to now as a reward for Brexit !


    What's Farage's new story and Zack's for that matter?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,132

    Isn't Andy Burnham just Starmer with mascara and a Northern accent?

    :lol:

    I certainly think lots of people are projecting their hopes onto him - but I understand why. Starmer has been such a disappointment. Maybe Burnham can at least make people feel a bit better.

    We do however have to recognise that if he wins he takes power at a very difficult time and any shift to the left in terms of policy will be very controversial (if it happens). The jury is very much out on what he can do, or what he is actually able to achieve with the constituency of voters he needs. This could be the best thing that has happened to the Labour Party for years, but it could also be an unmitigated disaster.

  • AbandonedHopeAbandonedHope Posts: 226
    Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.

    Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.

    After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.

    Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.

    cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    edited May 14
    How much income tax will Farage have to pay on that £5m? I assume it will be £2.25m (45%) plus £100k (2%) NI contributions.

    Nigel Farage now says £5m from crypto billionaire was ‘reward’ for Brexit push

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/14/nigel-farage-5m-gift-crypto-billionaire-brexit-reward
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,791
    Eabhal said:

    The biggest news today is what might be the first step in dismantling the M8 as it passes through the centre of Glasgow. Would be a remarkably brave step to make and a ray of hope for urban areas all over the UK. It's happened before in Seoul, in the Netherlands, San Fran, Madrid, Paris.

    Will the council face down the outrage across Facebook? I hope so.

    That strikes me as a huge and very costly undertaking.
  • MaxPB said:

    Reform feel like value here.

    Not to me.

    What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.

    This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.

    This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.

    They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
    The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2

    A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”

    On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,781
    Cookie said:

    FPT

    I would love it if Reform win, just to see the look on Andy Burnham's face. Love it!

    Ok Kevin, calm down.
    In all seriousness this sentiment may drive a not insignificant share of the vote.
    If the vote were open to every PB poster, maybe.

    But in this constituency? The significant share of the vote will be that which wants rid of Starmer, not that which wants to rub Burnham's face in it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,139
    I'm backing the king of the north
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,832
    trukat said:

    I honestly find it fascinating how differently I see this to most on here. I have popped a small bet on Reform to win this seat. Let me explain briefly.

    Reform are ahead on a generic ballot, I do not think that is controversial.

    Starmer must have some Labour loyalists. This should depress the Labour vote at least a bit.

    Some Conservative voters might not be too keen on the idea of shifting the government to the left.

    Or of reviving the fortunes of the Labour party they wish to replace in government.

    There are not that many Lib Dem/Green voters to squeeze.

    Which means Andy needs direct Reform>Labour switchers. And the more split the Labour vote is, the more he will need.

    So can he win, sure. But it looks more toss-up than sure thing to me, so I popped a few quid on Reform

    The other source of votes for Burnham is those who DNV at GE 2024 and LE 2026.

    There was turnout at the GE of 52% and in the Locals high 30s%.

    If Burnham can GOTV then he may not need switchers.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,860
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Why does Polanski keep lying ?

    It’s becoming pathological. I do feel the wheels are beginning to come off and he’s somewhat fortunate that there’s been so much attention on the Labour drama .

    This also goes for Farage who has now changed his story from the money was for security to now as a reward for Brexit !


    What's Farage's new story and Zack's for that matter?
    This one, I suspect;

    Zack Polanski has admitted he didn’t vote in last week’s local elections - despite claims he had voted by post...

    But following questions about the surprising move, he admitted to the Times that he had not registered to vote in the elections because he feared for his safety.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/zack-polanski-admits-not-voting-in-local-elections-despite-telling-candidate-youve-got-my-vote/ar-AA23cB6Y
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320
    I’ll be interested to see how Burnham deals with accusations that he’s too pro EU .

    I’m sure Reform will attack him on this.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,938

    How much income tax will Farage have to pay on that £5m? I assume it will be £2.25m (45%) plus £100k (2%) NI contributions.

    Nigel Farage now says £5m from crypto billionaire was ‘reward’ for Brexit push

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/14/nigel-farage-5m-gift-crypto-billionaire-brexit-reward

    Yes if it is a gift in exchange for consideration of services it is surely subject to income tax. Don't think Nige has done himself any favours with his latest yarn.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,781

    MaxPB said:

    Reform feel like value here.

    Not to me.

    What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.

    This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.

    This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.

    They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
    The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2

    A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”

    On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
    Its got nothing to do with Reform-loathing, and you're just another Southern fairy who does not understand the area.

    I have said repeatedly that under any other circumstances I'd expect Reform to walk it.

    This is sui generis though. A chance to replace the utterly loathed Starmer, with a far more respected/far less loathed local.

    Reform aren't even the story.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    Eabhal said:

    The biggest news today is what might be the first step in dismantling the M8 as it passes through the centre of Glasgow. Would be a remarkably brave step to make and a ray of hope for urban areas all over the UK. It's happened before in Seoul, in the Netherlands, San Fran, Madrid, Paris.

    Will the council face down the outrage across Facebook? I hope so.

    Is building some sort of northern orbital road part of a plan to replace it, or are they just taking the M8 out of the centre and sending traffic onto the M74 through the south?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,791
    nico67 said:

    Why does Polanski keep lying ?

    It’s becoming pathological. I do feel the wheels are beginning to come off and he’s somewhat fortunate that there’s been so much attention on the Labour drama .

    This also goes for Farage who has now changed his story from the money was for security to now as a reward for Brexit !


    They're both being exposed for the frauds they really are. One's a chancer and the other a grifter.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    I see the Reform line will be Andy Burnham isn't a real local.
    Following on from Hannah Spencer isn't a real plumber last time.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,132
    I also think if Farage loses, and Burnham proves immediately popular then it is entirely possible that the Reform bubble might burst quite spectacularly, to the benefit of both Labour and the Tories
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    Just an FYI I am on holiday for most of July.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,938
    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer goes, the UK will now have had more PMs since 2020 than Italy and Japan and will match the Australian turnover of PMs between 2010 and 2018

    Drawn level in the Ashes? What are people moaning about. Should score another couple in 2027 and 2029 too!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,552
    It's a lovely evening in Greater Manchester. I have just seen a heron and several swifts.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,858
    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer goes, the UK will now have had more PMs since 2020 than Italy and Japan and will match the Australian turnover of PMs between 2010 and 2018

    We will still be better than France though, who have now had 6 PMs since 2020
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    nico67 said:

    I’ll be interested to see how Burnham deals with accusations that he’s too pro EU .

    I’m sure Reform will attack him on this.

    Although it was a 65% Leave seat, I think they'd be better to concentrate on his record and paint him as part of the failed political establishment.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320

    MaxPB said:

    Reform feel like value here.

    Not to me.

    What's noteworthy to me is the local PBers here who are close to the area seem to agree Burnham will win this.

    This to me is comparable to when Boris replaced May. Farage led in the polls that year, then his party utterly faded away once the PM was changed.

    This is even more than that a vote to change the PM - and one where the voters have the chance to replace a loathed London lawyer PM with a local one of their own, who is not utterly soiled.

    They will take it with both hands. It won't even be close.
    The last hour on PB has been the most ridiculous group based ultra wank since the Wanking Wankers of Wankstein had their Wankiest Wankfest since World Wank 2

    A bunch of Reform-loathing centrist Dads all convincing each other Andy Burnham will win and win it big, “it won’t even be close”

    On the basis that these people are always always wrong about Reform and always always under-estimate Reform I’m saying it will likely be very close. I have the odds at exactly evens
    We’re free to make our own predictions without needing your stamp of approval ! Fine you think it will be close . I don’t !
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,832

    Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.

    Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.

    After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.

    Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.

    cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.

    I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.

    So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,938
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm backing the king of the north

    Winter is coming!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,284

    Eabhal said:

    The biggest news today is what might be the first step in dismantling the M8 as it passes through the centre of Glasgow. Would be a remarkably brave step to make and a ray of hope for urban areas all over the UK. It's happened before in Seoul, in the Netherlands, San Fran, Madrid, Paris.

    Will the council face down the outrage across Facebook? I hope so.

    Is building some sort of northern orbital road part of a plan to replace it, or are they just taking the M8 out of the centre and sending traffic onto the M74 through the south?
    The latter. There's a viaduct that is falling apart in the centre and they are taking the opportunity to take the plunge.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 132
    Foxy said:

    trukat said:

    I honestly find it fascinating how differently I see this to most on here. I have popped a small bet on Reform to win this seat. Let me explain briefly.

    Reform are ahead on a generic ballot, I do not think that is controversial.

    Starmer must have some Labour loyalists. This should depress the Labour vote at least a bit.

    Some Conservative voters might not be too keen on the idea of shifting the government to the left.

    Or of reviving the fortunes of the Labour party they wish to replace in government.

    There are not that many Lib Dem/Green voters to squeeze.

    Which means Andy needs direct Reform>Labour switchers. And the more split the Labour vote is, the more he will need.

    So can he win, sure. But it looks more toss-up than sure thing to me, so I popped a few quid on Reform

    The other source of votes for Burnham is those who DNV at GE 2024 and LE 2026.

    There was turnout at the GE of 52% and in the Locals high 30s%.

    If Burnham can GOTV then he may not need switchers.
    Could be but wiki says Manchester Mayor turnout was 32 percent, no sign of an energized turnout. Could be that the chance to kick out Starmer makes the difference I suppose.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    My word.

    Robert Jenrick’s wife warned about £40k donation from US fraudster

    Detectives are assessing claims the MP, now a Reform UK member, accepted a foreign donation in his campaign to become the Tory leader


    Robert Jenrick’s wife, Michal Berkner, was warned that her husband’s campaign accepted an impermissible donation of almost £40,000 from a convicted American fraudster that is at the centre of a police investigation.

    Detectives are assessing claims that Jenrick accepted a foreign donation for his campaign to become Tory leader in 2024. It comes after an inquiry by the elections watchdog.

    Jenrick, who is Reform UK’s Treasury spokesman, has repeatedly said he believed the money had been given to him by Phillip Ullmann, a British businessman, whose company Spott Fitness was declared as the source of the funding.

    Emails seen by The Times showed that Berkner, who was acting as a lawyer for Ullmann’s company, was warned six months after the donation was made that he was not the original source of all the money.

    Instead, she was told that Ullmann had solicited the money from Gary Klopfenstein, an American businessman who is awaiting sentence for fraud in the United States.

    However, Berkner, who is a practising solicitor, would have been under a professional obligation not to share that information with her husband as it would have been covered by client confidentiality. She is understood to have stopped working for Ullman shortly afterwards and there is no suggestion of impropriety on her part.

    In an email to Berkner, a lawyer representing one of Klopfenstein’s former companies, provided evidence that Ullmann had asked for the money to support Jenrick’s campaign.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/robert-jenrick-wife-donation-us-fraudster-dnpq7w77v
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320

    nico67 said:

    I’ll be interested to see how Burnham deals with accusations that he’s too pro EU .

    I’m sure Reform will attack him on this.

    Although it was a 65% Leave seat, I think they'd be better to concentrate on his record and paint him as part of the failed political establishment.
    According to the HOC library although the council area Wigan voted 64% to leave the estimate for Makerfield was 54% so not a real strong leave area .
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,552

    Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.

    Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.

    After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.

    Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.

    cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.

    Newton le Willows is about 7 miles from Leigh. Makerfield is wegrd between the two. It's hardly remote. And I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have connections to both Manchester and Liverpool, especially when they're from that no mans land in the middle.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,186

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Why does Polanski keep lying ?

    It’s becoming pathological. I do feel the wheels are beginning to come off and he’s somewhat fortunate that there’s been so much attention on the Labour drama .

    This also goes for Farage who has now changed his story from the money was for security to now as a reward for Brexit !


    What's Farage's new story and Zack's for that matter?
    This one, I suspect;

    Zack Polanski has admitted he didn’t vote in last week’s local elections - despite claims he had voted by post...

    But following questions about the surprising move, he admitted to the Times that he had not registered to vote in the elections because he feared for his safety.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/zack-polanski-admits-not-voting-in-local-elections-despite-telling-candidate-youve-got-my-vote/ar-AA23cB6Y
    Will Zack stand in Makerfield?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    I’ll be interested to see how Burnham deals with accusations that he’s too pro EU .

    I’m sure Reform will attack him on this.

    Although it was a 65% Leave seat, I think they'd be better to concentrate on his record and paint him as part of the failed political establishment.
    According to the HOC library although the council area Wigan voted 64% to leave the estimate for Makerfield was 54% so not a real strong leave area .
    Oh, I pulled that figure from the spreadsheet here - https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/brexit-votes-by-constituency/
  • TresTres Posts: 3,647

    Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.

    Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.

    After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.

    Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.

    cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.

    by that definition it would be a noteworthy politician who isn't a carpetbagger
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Cookie said:

    Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.

    Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.

    After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.

    Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.

    cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.

    Newton le Willows is about 7 miles from Leigh. Makerfield is wegrd between the two. It's hardly remote. And I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have connections to both Manchester and Liverpool, especially when they're from that no mans land in the middle.
    What's more he grew up in Culcheth. He went to Secondary school in Newton-le-willows.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 132

    My word.

    Robert Jenrick’s wife warned about £40k donation from US fraudster

    Detectives are assessing claims the MP, now a Reform UK member, accepted a foreign donation in his campaign to become the Tory leader


    Robert Jenrick’s wife, Michal Berkner, was warned that her husband’s campaign accepted an impermissible donation of almost £40,000 from a convicted American fraudster that is at the centre of a police investigation.

    Detectives are assessing claims that Jenrick accepted a foreign donation for his campaign to become Tory leader in 2024. It comes after an inquiry by the elections watchdog.

    Jenrick, who is Reform UK’s Treasury spokesman, has repeatedly said he believed the money had been given to him by Phillip Ullmann, a British businessman, whose company Spott Fitness was declared as the source of the funding.

    Emails seen by The Times showed that Berkner, who was acting as a lawyer for Ullmann’s company, was warned six months after the donation was made that he was not the original source of all the money.

    Instead, she was told that Ullmann had solicited the money from Gary Klopfenstein, an American businessman who is awaiting sentence for fraud in the United States.

    However, Berkner, who is a practising solicitor, would have been under a professional obligation not to share that information with her husband as it would have been covered by client confidentiality. She is understood to have stopped working for Ullman shortly afterwards and there is no suggestion of impropriety on her part.

    In an email to Berkner, a lawyer representing one of Klopfenstein’s former companies, provided evidence that Ullmann had asked for the money to support Jenrick’s campaign.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/robert-jenrick-wife-donation-us-fraudster-dnpq7w77v

    Awkward. Perhaps they should swap him out for Zahawi :smile:
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320
    Reform made the local elections as vote Reform to get rid of Starmer .

    Burnham is standing to get rid of Starmer . Of course he has to be a bit careful not to alienate voters there who like Starmers , yes I know it might not be that many but still .
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,186
    Do we have a health secretary yet?
  • It’s a lovely evening here in Northumberland as well, and I’ve just had a whisky tasting with puddings at England’s only single malt distillery which is ALSO on the site* of England’s earliest Anglo-Saxon palace, Ad Gefrin, complete with museum, a summer palace dating from 550AD complete with timber theatre and church and pagan temple and mentioned by Bede in his History of the English People

    As you drink your whisky the walls turn into the colours of different seasons matching the mood of the booze

    Clever



    *actually about 3 miles away but hey
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,781
    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.

    Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.

    After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.

    Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.

    cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.

    Newton le Willows is about 7 miles from Leigh. Makerfield is wegrd between the two. It's hardly remote. And I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have connections to both Manchester and Liverpool, especially when they're from that no mans land in the middle.
    What's more he grew up in Culcheth. He went to Secondary school in Newton-le-willows.
    I don't know anyone who would consider Newton-le-Willows and Leigh to have "no connection" to each other.

    Very odd attitude.

    Heck, they're that close to each other, there's probably takeaways that deliver to customers in both towns.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,858
    edited May 14

    HYUFD said:

    Burnham will win this by election easily, it includes part of his old Leigh seat. Assuming the NEC follows Starmer's lead and allows him to be an approved Labour parliamentary candidate of course.

    Starmer does seem though to believe Burnham can be brought into his cabinet without joining Streeting in a leadership challenge which might be a bit deluded

    Or just maybe Starmer knows the game is up and would prefer to hand over to Burnham rather than any of the other likely candidates?
    Yes, from Starmer's perspective Burnham is a dull bespectacled lad like him who likes his footie and is real Labour, not a preening Blairite ponceyboots back stabber like Streeting born and raised in London and too articulate for his own good
  • AbandonedHopeAbandonedHope Posts: 226
    Foxy said:

    Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.

    Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.

    After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.

    Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.

    cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.

    I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.

    So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.

    Yes. It is a term that first originated in Reconstruction-era USA. However, Burnham is not local by birth. He’s from Liverpool. He was parachuted into Leigh and now runs Manchester. If I was born in Sheffield, parachuted into Barnsley and now ran Leeds, that would not make me local by birth. I can assure you now it would it take some time to win over the good folk of Beeston or Hunslet. And even after 30 years they’d still eye with suspicion!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    James Murray is the new Health Secretary.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,858
    MaxPB said:

    Reform feel like value here.

    If Burnham can't even beat Reform in Makerfield he isn't going to lead Labour to general election victory anyway
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    edited May 14

    Foxy said:

    Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.

    Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.

    After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.

    Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.

    cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.

    I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.

    So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.

    Yes. It is a term that first originated in Reconstruction-era USA. However, Burnham is not local by birth. He’s from Liverpool. He was parachuted into Leigh and now runs Manchester. If I was born in Sheffield, parachuted into Barnsley and now ran Leeds, that would not make me local by birth. I can assure you now it would it take some time to win over the good folk of Beeston or Hunslet. And even after 30 years they’d still eye with suspicion!
    He wasn't "parachuted" into Leigh.
    Culcheth is pretty much a suburb of it.
    It's 2 miles away.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,375

    My word.

    Robert Jenrick’s wife warned about £40k donation from US fraudster

    Detectives are assessing claims the MP, now a Reform UK member, accepted a foreign donation in his campaign to become the Tory leader


    Robert Jenrick’s wife, Michal Berkner, was warned that her husband’s campaign accepted an impermissible donation of almost £40,000 from a convicted American fraudster that is at the centre of a police investigation.

    Detectives are assessing claims that Jenrick accepted a foreign donation for his campaign to become Tory leader in 2024. It comes after an inquiry by the elections watchdog.

    Jenrick, who is Reform UK’s Treasury spokesman, has repeatedly said he believed the money had been given to him by Phillip Ullmann, a British businessman, whose company Spott Fitness was declared as the source of the funding.

    Emails seen by The Times showed that Berkner, who was acting as a lawyer for Ullmann’s company, was warned six months after the donation was made that he was not the original source of all the money.

    Instead, she was told that Ullmann had solicited the money from Gary Klopfenstein, an American businessman who is awaiting sentence for fraud in the United States.

    However, Berkner, who is a practising solicitor, would have been under a professional obligation not to share that information with her husband as it would have been covered by client confidentiality. She is understood to have stopped working for Ullman shortly afterwards and there is no suggestion of impropriety on her part.

    In an email to Berkner, a lawyer representing one of Klopfenstein’s former companies, provided evidence that Ullmann had asked for the money to support Jenrick’s campaign.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/robert-jenrick-wife-donation-us-fraudster-dnpq7w77v

    No wonder Farage was happy to get him into Reform.

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,305

    Eabhal said:

    The biggest news today is what might be the first step in dismantling the M8 as it passes through the centre of Glasgow. Would be a remarkably brave step to make and a ray of hope for urban areas all over the UK. It's happened before in Seoul, in the Netherlands, San Fran, Madrid, Paris.

    Will the council face down the outrage across Facebook? I hope so.

    That strikes me as a huge and very costly undertaking.
    They could just allow a vape shop to open underneath it.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,781
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.

    Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.

    After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.

    Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.

    cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.

    I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.

    So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.

    Yes. It is a term that first originated in Reconstruction-era USA. However, Burnham is not local by birth. He’s from Liverpool. He was parachuted into Leigh and now runs Manchester. If I was born in Sheffield, parachuted into Barnsley and now ran Leeds, that would not make me local by birth. I can assure you now it would it take some time to win over the good folk of Beeston or Hunslet. And even after 30 years they’d still eye with suspicion!
    He wasn't "parachuted" into Leigh.
    Culcheth is pretty much a suburb of it.
    I think they'd probably rather be a suburb of Warrington. :wink:
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Carpetbagger. Now that’s an interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d argue that Andy Burnham absolutely is a carpetbagger.

    Born in Aintree and grew up in Newton-le-Willows, yet in 2001 he was parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Leigh despite having little obvious connection to it. He then built much of his political identity around campaigning for justice for the Hillsborough families and his Merseyside roots, while simultaneously presenting himself as “Mr Manchester” when it suited his ambitions.

    After losing two Labour leadership contests, he left Westminster altogether to become Mayor of Greater Manchester rather than remaining an MP or pursuing a political future on Merseyside. Since then, his name has repeatedly surfaced in connection with seats like Gorton and Denton, and now Makerfield.

    Perhaps I get too bogged down in a literal reading of the English language, but the last time I checked, moving from constituency to constituency wherever the political opportunity arises is pretty much the definition of political carpetbagging.

    cf. Boris Johnson, Peter Mandelson, Nigel Farage.

    I think Carpetbagger is of US origin, in post Civil War Reconstruction of the former CSA. Yankee politicians arriving to administer the conquered states, alongside "scallywags" who were Southern turncoats working for the Union.

    So doesn't fit Burnham, who is a local by both birth and choice.

    Yes. It is a term that first originated in Reconstruction-era USA. However, Burnham is not local by birth. He’s from Liverpool. He was parachuted into Leigh and now runs Manchester. If I was born in Sheffield, parachuted into Barnsley and now ran Leeds, that would not make me local by birth. I can assure you now it would it take some time to win over the good folk of Beeston or Hunslet. And even after 30 years they’d still eye with suspicion!
    He wasn't "parachuted" into Leigh.
    Culcheth is pretty much a suburb of it.
    I think they'd probably rather be a suburb of Warrington. :wink:
    Indeed.
    Who in their right mind wouldn't?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,938

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Why does Polanski keep lying ?

    It’s becoming pathological. I do feel the wheels are beginning to come off and he’s somewhat fortunate that there’s been so much attention on the Labour drama .

    This also goes for Farage who has now changed his story from the money was for security to now as a reward for Brexit !


    What's Farage's new story and Zack's for that matter?
    This one, I suspect;

    Zack Polanski has admitted he didn’t vote in last week’s local elections - despite claims he had voted by post...

    But following questions about the surprising move, he admitted to the Times that he had not registered to vote in the elections because he feared for his safety.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/zack-polanski-admits-not-voting-in-local-elections-despite-telling-candidate-youve-got-my-vote/ar-AA23cB6Y
    Will Zack stand in Makerfield?
    Whether he does or not, he will probably claim to have stood.
    The number of likes this post got is an excellent sign for Labour. Polanski is too easy to mock to sustain the Greens in mid teens.
This discussion has been closed.