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I may need to update this bar chart – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,174
edited May 12 in General
I may need to update this bar chart – politicalbetting.com

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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,200
    First
  • I commend at least some of the PLP for listening to voters and doing what is necessary. I must confess, I thought for a long while we’d just have another Brown situation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,685

    Andypets said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    Still time for this coup to fail...

    But I suspect it won't because the internal fighting will be a sight to behold and remember we have been in the "entertainment" timeline ever since weasel was found at CERN
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,364
    edited May 12
    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    ETA although I guess brave Sir Burnham might then be usurped by Sadiq Khan, king of the mayors and a lawyer to boot, whose term also expires in 2028, although he has given no sign of wanting to step down (in case this is mistaken for serious betting advice).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,143
    If he had anything about him he's sack Mahmood now. But he doesn't so he won't
  • The US Department of State, here. They’re not wrong

    “While the United Kingdom faced unprecedented illegal boat crossings, UN agencies condemned plans for deportations.

    UN officials lobbied aviation regulators to prevent the deportation of migrants – an appalling violation of the UK’s national sovereignty.”


    https://x.com/statedept/status/2053907257600188555?s=46
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Manchester is south of the Tyne and therefore in the South
  • FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    But what if - I admit the possibility is low - Streeting and co are doing quite well?

    It’d be a mistake to block him again but I think him being in the cabinet is more likely than him being PM at this stage.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Sensible but when have labour been sensible ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,892
    Even if Starmer did announce a timetable for his resignation that isn't technically being ousted in the sense of losing a leadership challenge. We have to see what he announces first. Unless he announces Burnham can return as an MP and give time for that it also means Streeting would likely be next PM, which would infuriate the Labour left, or Rayner, which would terrify the Labour right and not necessarily improve Labour's situation unity wise
  • Nigelb said:

    Andypets said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
    I’m now drinking my morning coffee from my £16 ANTIQUE COFFEE CAN (NB @turbotubbs - you still haven’t apologised) and I’m looking at it again and I’ve noticed the lower figure has his hand on the other guy’s thigh. Squeezing it?

    So, definitely sexual. Yet I’ve also noticed the upper figure is slightly female in shape despite the beard. Is this about women cross dressing as men, on pleasant Dutch farms, so they can seduce workers and undermine 17th century Dutch farming production?

    Quite a complex message. For a tile
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,364

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Manchester is south of the Tyne and therefore in the South
    I've seen Kes. If they fly whippets and shove ferrets down their trousers while clog-dancing, they're northerners.
  • PB a bit excitable. The King’s Speech is not going to be voted down lol
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,874

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Sensible but when have labour been sensible ?
    When was the last time any political party was sensible?

    (And the problem with Andy B's plan B is that 2028 is probably too late for him, career-wise. Other Labour figures will surely emerge in that time.)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,522
    @aeronlaffere

    Finally, after exhausting every other option, Britain is ready for chaos with Ed Miliband.
  • There was a poll out this morning from YouGov who got LEs basically spot on.

    Reform 25%, Labour 18%.

    It would not take much of a change at all with a new leader for Labour to be back up above 20% again. And then the entire narrative is different.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,200

    Nigelb said:

    Andypets said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
    I’m now drinking my morning coffee from my £16 ANTIQUE COFFEE CAN (NB @turbotubbs - you still haven’t apologised) and I’m looking at it again and I’ve noticed the lower figure has his hand on the other guy’s thigh. Squeezing it?

    So, definitely sexual. Yet I’ve also noticed the upper figure is slightly female in shape despite the beard. Is this about women cross dressing as men, on pleasant Dutch farms, so they can seduce workers and undermine 17th century Dutch farming production?

    Quite a complex message. For a tile
    What do you want an apology for again? I said I wouldn’t buy two of them as I don’t think they are quite as old as claimed. I’ve not insulted you family line, or suggested you think two chaps resting in a field are early homosexuals because you have dark thoughts about your own sexuality. If the6 make you happy, go for it.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,324

    Nigelb said:

    Andypets said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
    I’m now drinking my morning coffee from my £16 ANTIQUE COFFEE CAN (NB @turbotubbs - you still haven’t apologised) and I’m looking at it again and I’ve noticed the lower figure has his hand on the other guy’s thigh. Squeezing it?

    So, definitely sexual. Yet I’ve also noticed the upper figure is slightly female in shape despite the beard. Is this about women cross dressing as men, on pleasant Dutch farms, so they can seduce workers and undermine 17th century Dutch farming production?

    Quite a complex message. For a tile
    The fact you’re becoming obsessed with this tile and have spent the best part of a day talking about is concerning! I are you that bored !
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,892
    'Senior minister Darren Jones suggests any return of Manchester mayor Andy Burnham would be "fantasy politics", telling the BBC conversations about "strategy" should happen "internally - as opposed to in public"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,200
    Scott_xP said:

    @aeronlaffere

    Finally, after exhausting every other option, Britain is ready for chaos with Ed Miliband.

    I don’t know about you, but hell yes, I’m ready.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,874
    Pulpstar said:

    If he had anything about him he's sack Mahmood now. But he doesn't so he won't

    If the coup suceeds, there's not much point. And it would look petty; see BoJo's sacking of Gove hours before he went.

    If it fails, there will be plenty of time to put heads on spikes afterwards.
  • https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2054097157200703958

    YouGov / Sky / Times

    RefUK 28% (+3),
    CON 17% (nc),
    GRN 16% (+1).
    LAB 16% (-2),
    LDEM 13% (-1)

    Never mind
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,892
    Scott_xP said:

    @aeronlaffere

    Finally, after exhausting every other option, Britain is ready for chaos with Ed Miliband.

    No, even if Starmer does go Streeting or Rayner or even Cooper are more likely than Miliband
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,364

    PB a bit excitable. The King’s Speech is not going to be voted down lol

    And nor does it matter if everyone knows it is a fiction, cf Boris and the dear old Queen.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,200

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2054097157200703958

    YouGov / Sky / Times

    RefUK 28% (+3),
    CON 17% (nc),
    GRN 16% (+1).
    LAB 16% (-2),
    LDEM 13% (-1)

    Never mind

    Have you encountered ‘noise’ in data?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,522
    @SamCoatesSky

    YouGov / Sky / Times

    RefUK 28% (+3),
    CON 17% (nc),
    GRN 16% (+1).
    LAB 16% (-2),
    LDEM 13% (-1),
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,170

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Manchester is south of the Tyne and therefore in the South
    Yet it is North of the Midlands which clearly aren’t in the South.
  • https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2054097157200703958

    YouGov / Sky / Times

    RefUK 28% (+3),
    CON 17% (nc),
    GRN 16% (+1).
    LAB 16% (-2),
    LDEM 13% (-1)

    Never mind

    Have you encountered ‘noise’ in data?
    Ahhhhhhhhh
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183
    HYUFD said:

    Even if Starmer did announce a timetable for his resignation that isn't technically being ousted in the sense of losing a leadership challenge. We have to see what he announces first. Unless he announces Burnham can return as an MP and give time for that it also means Streeting would likely be next PM, which would infuriate the Labour left, or Rayner, which would terrify the Labour right and not necessarily improve Labour's situation unity wise

    If, and it is if, Starmer announces his resignation it most certainly is him being ousted by his colleagues

    And not at all sure it will be a Streeting coronation
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,892

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2054097157200703958

    YouGov / Sky / Times

    RefUK 28% (+3),
    CON 17% (nc),
    GRN 16% (+1).
    LAB 16% (-2),
    LDEM 13% (-1)

    Never mind

    Reform extend their lead after the local elections then, now over 10% over the now second placed Tories with Labour falling to tied 3rd with the Greens. Very poor for the LDs too as they fall back 1% so no normal post local elections bounce for them
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,499

    The US Department of State, here. They’re not wrong

    “While the United Kingdom faced unprecedented illegal boat crossings, UN agencies condemned plans for deportations.

    UN officials lobbied aviation regulators to prevent the deportation of migrants – an appalling violation of the UK’s national sovereignty.”


    https://x.com/statedept/status/2053907257600188555?s=46

    Yes they are. There were far more illegal boat crossings in the Viking era, or the Norman conquest, or the Henrician war, or even in the Orange Revolution. And a great many got through in the 1940s as well.

    The fact the State Department have only a tenuous hold on reality shouldn't blind us to the fact that actually 'small boat crossings' are a total red herring whipped up by Frogface because he's as stupid as he is venal. Most immigrants arrive by air and the problem is the systems we have to deal with them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,170
    nico67 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andypets said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
    I’m now drinking my morning coffee from my £16 ANTIQUE COFFEE CAN (NB @turbotubbs - you still haven’t apologised) and I’m looking at it again and I’ve noticed the lower figure has his hand on the other guy’s thigh. Squeezing it?

    So, definitely sexual. Yet I’ve also noticed the upper figure is slightly female in shape despite the beard. Is this about women cross dressing as men, on pleasant Dutch farms, so they can seduce workers and undermine 17th century Dutch farming production?

    Quite a complex message. For a tile
    The fact you’re becoming obsessed with this tile and have spent the best part of a day talking about is concerning! I are you that bored !
    To alleviate boredom. Why else does anyone come here.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,499
    Scott_xP said:

    @aeronlaffere

    Finally, after exhausting every other option, Britain is ready for chaos with Ed Miliband.

    We've had every different type of chaos in the last ten years, I want to see if this is a better sort of chaos.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,435

    Nigelb said:

    Andypets said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
    I’m now drinking my morning coffee from my £16 ANTIQUE COFFEE CAN (NB @turbotubbs - you still haven’t apologised) and I’m looking at it again and I’ve noticed the lower figure has his hand on the other guy’s thigh. Squeezing it?

    So, definitely sexual. Yet I’ve also noticed the upper figure is slightly female in shape despite the beard. Is this about women cross dressing as men, on pleasant Dutch farms, so they can seduce workers and undermine 17th century Dutch farming production?

    Quite a complex message. For a tile
    When you go for your morning crap you can tell us all about your 16th century toilet roll holder and your special toilet paper made out of processed duck feathers. Meanwhile we'll just have to endure another extract from Pseud's Corner...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @aeronlaffere

    Finally, after exhausting every other option, Britain is ready for chaos with Ed Miliband.

    No, even if Starmer does go Streeting or Rayner or even Cooper are more likely than Miliband
    Miliband will be in the mix
  • Nigelb said:

    Andypets said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
    I’m now drinking my morning coffee from my £16 ANTIQUE COFFEE CAN (NB @turbotubbs - you still haven’t apologised) and I’m looking at it again and I’ve noticed the lower figure has his hand on the other guy’s thigh. Squeezing it?

    So, definitely sexual. Yet I’ve also noticed the upper figure is slightly female in shape despite the beard. Is this about women cross dressing as men, on pleasant Dutch farms, so they can seduce workers and undermine 17th century Dutch farming production?

    Quite a complex message. For a tile
    What do you want an apology for again? I said I wouldn’t buy two of them as I don’t think they are quite as old as claimed. I’ve not insulted you family line, or suggested you think two chaps resting in a field are early homosexuals because you have dark thoughts about your own sexuality. If the6 make you happy, go for it.
    Because

    1. You implied that I’m a fool being duped, when I’m not. These cups are not fake, they are the real thing, they ARE that cheap, they are exactly that old (we know the precise patterns used by English porcelain manufacturers in specific years)

    So, you were totally wrong. Admit it

    Also

    2. You waded in on a subject about which you know nothing - and, worse, you did it with a bogus air of authority. I find this personally and utterly objectionable
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,364

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2054097157200703958

    YouGov / Sky / Times

    RefUK 28% (+3),
    CON 17% (nc),
    GRN 16% (+1).
    LAB 16% (-2),
    LDEM 13% (-1)

    Never mind

    Have you encountered ‘noise’ in data?
    A good spectroscopist always blames the sample?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,435

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Sensible but when have labour been sensible ?
    When was the last time any political party was sensible?

    (And the problem with Andy B's plan B is that 2028 is probably too late for him, career-wise. Other Labour figures will surely emerge in that time.)
    Politics in Britain very rarely hands out second chances, anyhow.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,142

    Pulpstar said:

    If he had anything about him he's sack Mahmood now. But he doesn't so he won't

    If the coup suceeds, there's not much point. And it would look petty; see BoJo's sacking of Gove hours before he went.

    If it fails, there will be plenty of time to put heads on spikes afterwards.
    What's the story with Mahmood?
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 12
    HYUFD said:

    'Senior minister Darren Jones suggests any return of Manchester mayor Andy Burnham would be "fantasy politics", telling the BBC conversations about "strategy" should happen "internally - as opposed to in public"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

    Oooh. Skyr wants Wes?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,446
    I don't normally bother to repeat myself if de-threaded but I'm really interested in this point:
    AnneJGP said:

    If you're Burnham, do you have either Mike Kane or Andrew Western hold a press conference this morning announcing they are resigning as MPs and support Burnham as there replacement?

    Surely the NEC wouldn't block him in these circumstances

    It sounds so easy but it means a major change of direction, at the least, for the would-be former MP. It's hard to believe anyone would sacrifice a well paid post unless they'd found it wasn't for them. What would be in it for the designated sacrificial lamb?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,892
    edited May 12

    HYUFD said:

    Even if Starmer did announce a timetable for his resignation that isn't technically being ousted in the sense of losing a leadership challenge. We have to see what he announces first. Unless he announces Burnham can return as an MP and give time for that it also means Streeting would likely be next PM, which would infuriate the Labour left, or Rayner, which would terrify the Labour right and not necessarily improve Labour's situation unity wise

    If, and it is if, Starmer announces his resignation it most certainly is him being ousted by his colleagues

    And not at all sure it will be a Streeting coronation
    There won't be any coronation, it would most likely end up a bloody fight between Streeting and Rayner and a furious Burnham not able to take part. Unless Streeting could somehow deny Ange the 80 Labour MPs she needs to be nominated
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,586
    Allies of Burnham tell me this morning a timetable of electing a new Labour leader and PM by conference end of Sept would give the Manchester mayor enough time to get back to Westminster and stand. “Colleagues will not accept another London leader”

    https://x.com/BethRigby/status/2054099502127067214
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,472
    Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If he had anything about him he's sack Mahmood now. But he doesn't so he won't

    If the coup suceeds, there's not much point. And it would look petty; see BoJo's sacking of Gove hours before he went.

    If it fails, there will be plenty of time to put heads on spikes afterwards.
    What's the story with Mahmood?
    PM in waiting?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,586

    HYUFD said:

    'Senior minister Darren Jones suggests any return of Manchester mayor Andy Burnham would be "fantasy politics", telling the BBC conversations about "strategy" should happen "internally - as opposed to in public"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

    Oooh. Skyr wants Wes?
    Yes and no.

    He absolutely doesn't want Andy Burnham who he thinks is putting ego over the greater good.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,586

    HYUFD said:

    'Senior minister Darren Jones suggests any return of Manchester mayor Andy Burnham would be "fantasy politics", telling the BBC conversations about "strategy" should happen "internally - as opposed to in public"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

    Oooh. Skyr wants Wes?
    Yes and no.

    He absolutely doesn't want Andy Burnham who he thinks is putting ego over the greater good.
  • HYUFD said:

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2054097157200703958

    YouGov / Sky / Times

    RefUK 28% (+3),
    CON 17% (nc),
    GRN 16% (+1).
    LAB 16% (-2),
    LDEM 13% (-1)

    Never mind

    Reform extend their lead after the local elections then, now over 10% over the now second placed Tories with Labour falling to tied 3rd with the Greens. Very poor for the LDs too as they fall back 1% so no normal post local elections bounce for them
    Superb poll
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,435
    HYUFD said:

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2054097157200703958

    YouGov / Sky / Times

    RefUK 28% (+3),
    CON 17% (nc),
    GRN 16% (+1).
    LAB 16% (-2),
    LDEM 13% (-1)

    Never mind

    Reform extend their lead after the local elections then, now over 10% over the now second placed Tories with Labour falling to tied 3rd with the Greens. Very poor for the LDs too as they fall back 1% so no normal post local elections bounce for them
    Insofar as it's not just MoE, it's a little lift to the parties that carried the headlines after the elections, and likely just a short-term reversal in Reform's slow falling back from its peak. We have the long slow drip of emerging scandal and chaotic administration to look forward to from all the hundreds of Reform councillors just elected without proper vetting, relevant experience and, in some cases, the inclination to do the job.
  • That poll is the death warrant for Skyr. Not that it’s needed. He’s toast on toast
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,866

    HYUFD said:

    'Senior minister Darren Jones suggests any return of Manchester mayor Andy Burnham would be "fantasy politics", telling the BBC conversations about "strategy" should happen "internally - as opposed to in public"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

    Oooh. Skyr wants Wes?
    Yes and no.

    He absolutely doesn't want Andy Burnham who he thinks is putting ego over the greater good.
    A certain amount of projection there!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183
    Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If he had anything about him he's sack Mahmood now. But he doesn't so he won't

    If the coup suceeds, there's not much point. And it would look petty; see BoJo's sacking of Gove hours before he went.

    If it fails, there will be plenty of time to put heads on spikes afterwards.
    What's the story with Mahmood?
    She has told Starmer to resign and lay out a timetable
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,364
    edited May 12
    AnneJGP said:

    I don't normally bother to repeat myself if de-threaded but I'm really interested in this point:

    If you're Burnham, do you have either Mike Kane or Andrew Western hold a press conference this morning announcing they are resigning as MPs and support Burnham as there replacement?

    Surely the NEC wouldn't block him in these circumstances

    It sounds so easy but it means a major change of direction, at the least, for the would-be former MP. It's hard to believe anyone would sacrifice a well paid post unless they'd found it wasn't for them. What would be in it for the designated sacrificial lamb?
    A peerage? A quango? Retirement a couple of years before they planned to retire anyway? Getting a head start on 200 other Labour MPs who might be looking for other jobs after the next election?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,499
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andypets said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
    I’m now drinking my morning coffee from my £16 ANTIQUE COFFEE CAN (NB @turbotubbs - you still haven’t apologised) and I’m looking at it again and I’ve noticed the lower figure has his hand on the other guy’s thigh. Squeezing it?

    So, definitely sexual. Yet I’ve also noticed the upper figure is slightly female in shape despite the beard. Is this about women cross dressing as men, on pleasant Dutch farms, so they can seduce workers and undermine 17th century Dutch farming production?

    Quite a complex message. For a tile
    When you go for your morning crap you can tell us all about your 16th century toilet roll holder and your special toilet paper made out of processed duck feathers. Meanwhile we'll just have to endure another extract from Pseud's Corner...
    Are those options eider or?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,472

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Manchester is south of the Tyne and therefore in the South
    If you'd said the Tees I'd have agreed with you.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 12

    HYUFD said:

    'Senior minister Darren Jones suggests any return of Manchester mayor Andy Burnham would be "fantasy politics", telling the BBC conversations about "strategy" should happen "internally - as opposed to in public"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

    Oooh. Skyr wants Wes?
    Yes and no.

    He absolutely doesn't want Andy Burnham who he thinks is putting ego over the greater good.
    For once I agree with Skyr. Burnham’s desperate careerism is an ugly spectacle

    But then Starmer is guilty of the same, if not worse, as he’s PM
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,499
    edited May 12

    HYUFD said:

    'Senior minister Darren Jones suggests any return of Manchester mayor Andy Burnham would be "fantasy politics", telling the BBC conversations about "strategy" should happen "internally - as opposed to in public"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

    Oooh. Skyr wants Wes?
    Yes and no.

    He absolutely doesn't want Andy Burnham who he thinks is putting ego over the greater good.
    For once I find myself in agreement with the PM.

    Edit - oh, and with about 6 of his voters apparently...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183
    Bond rates are re-acting

    10 year at 5.10 at 8.27
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,586
    edited May 12

    That poll is the death warrant for Skyr. Not that it’s needed. He’s toast on toast

    Calm down.

    A government only 12% behind in the polls in midterm isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 636

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Manchester is south of the Tyne and therefore in the South
    Midlands, surely.
    My view from the Firth of Forth suggests the Tyne is pretty central too
  • That poll is the death warrant for Skyr. Not that it’s needed. He’s toast on toast

    Calm down.

    A government only 12% behind in the polls in midterm isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things.
    They are joint fourth
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,364

    Allies of Burnham tell me this morning a timetable of electing a new Labour leader and PM by conference end of Sept would give the Manchester mayor enough time to get back to Westminster and stand. “Colleagues will not accept another London leader”

    https://x.com/BethRigby/status/2054099502127067214

    Another London leader – whoever can they mean?

    And according to Wikipedia, there are 75 London Labour MPs. Big place, London.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Labour_Party_MPs_in_London
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,220
    edited May 12
    TSE needs to update that bar chart regardless.

    Blair was ousted, no doubt about it. Brown and the PLP forced him out. The process made it look like Blair had chosen to go in order to pander to his ego, but no-one was fooled.

    Anyway TSE might as well hold on for a bit as it will shortly transpire that the number of Labour leaders ousted by their party has reached 2, both PMs.

    PS. Would a bar chart of the number of serving PMs forced from office in the last 52 years then show 2 each for Labour and Conservative?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,499
    Scott_xP said:

    @angusmain.bsky.social‬

    Wes Streeting is already facing growing calls to stand down as PM

    Wes Streeting is a somewhat more egotistical and less experienced version of Starmer. If he's the answer, Labour are asking the wrong question.

    Although I think the point is moot as he has little chance of becoming leader.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,685
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @aeronlaffere

    Finally, after exhausting every other option, Britain is ready for chaos with Ed Miliband.

    We've had every different type of chaos in the last ten years, I want to see if this is a better sort of chaos.
    Is that opinion set in stone ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,499
    edited May 12
    DavidL said:



    Just to be clear, you are suggesting that people on PB should apologise for having a "bogus air of authority"? Have you thought this through?

    I think he's been caught knapping.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,142
    Do we know as a result of the local election results which pollster gets the award for being closest? And also furthest out?

    .....and how did Find Out Now do?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,685

    Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If he had anything about him he's sack Mahmood now. But he doesn't so he won't

    If the coup suceeds, there's not much point. And it would look petty; see BoJo's sacking of Gove hours before he went.

    If it fails, there will be plenty of time to put heads on spikes afterwards.
    What's the story with Mahmood?
    She has told Starmer to resign and lay out a timetable
    Surely the other way round ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,435
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @angusmain.bsky.social‬

    Wes Streeting is already facing growing calls to stand down as PM

    Wes Streeting is a somewhat more egotistical and less experienced version of Starmer. If he's the answer, Labour are asking the wrong question.

    Although I think the point is moot as he has little chance of becoming leader.
    Interestingly, having offered my own view based on the eight years we spent on the same council, a Labour MP interviewed on LBC yesterday offered essentially the same critique, that despite Wes's obvious ability and talent as a communicator, he's someone who doesn't consult or listen and his default approach, once he's decided himself what needs to be done, is to flatten all opposition and steamroller it through. You might argue that the country could do with a dose of such decisiveness and determination right now, but whether it's the best way to try and lead an organisation like the Labour Party is another matter altogether.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,907
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:



    Just to be clear, you are suggesting that people on PB should apologise for having a "bogus air of authority"? Have you thought this through?

    I think he's been caught knapping.
    I'm giving you a like for sorting out the post cascade which I had royally screwed up.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,146
    edited May 12

    HYUFD said:

    Even if Starmer did announce a timetable for his resignation that isn't technically being ousted in the sense of losing a leadership challenge. We have to see what he announces first. Unless he announces Burnham can return as an MP and give time for that it also means Streeting would likely be next PM, which would infuriate the Labour left, or Rayner, which would terrify the Labour right and not necessarily improve Labour's situation unity wise

    If, and it is if, Starmer announces his resignation it most certainly is him being ousted by his colleagues

    And not at all sure it will be a Streeting coronation
    Is there recent member polling on alternatives?

    Also have they changed the electorate rules or is the vote going to be derailed by a flood of £25 "supporters" ?

    Leon_RegisteredLabourSupporter could be seen on PB
  • I believe YouGov and More In Common both did very well
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,499
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @angusmain.bsky.social‬

    Wes Streeting is already facing growing calls to stand down as PM

    Wes Streeting is a somewhat more egotistical and less experienced version of Starmer. If he's the answer, Labour are asking the wrong question.

    Although I think the point is moot as he has little chance of becoming leader.
    Interestingly, having offered my own view based on the eight years we spent on the same council, a Labour MP interviewed on LBC yesterday offered essentially the same critique, that despite Wes's obvious ability and talent as a communicator, he's someone who doesn't consult or listen and his default approach, once he's decided himself what needs to be done, is to flatten all opposition and steamroller it through. You might argue that the country could do with a dose of such decisiveness and determination right now, but whether it's the best way to try and lead an organisation like the Labour Party is another matter altogether.
    We had that with Michael Gove at the DfE.

    We do not want it applied to the whole country.
  • DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
    I’m now drinking my morning coffee from my £16 ANTIQUE COFFEE CAN (NB @turbotubbs - you still haven’t apologised) and I’m looking at it again and I’ve noticed the lower figure has his hand on the other guy’s thigh. Squeezing it?

    So, definitely sexual. Yet I’ve also noticed the upper figure is slightly female in shape despite the beard. Is this about women cross dressing as men, on pleasant Dutch farms, so they can seduce workers and undermine 17th century Dutch farming production?

    Quite a complex message. For a tile
    What do you want an apology for again? I said I wouldn’t buy two of them as I don’t think they are quite as old as claimed. I’ve not insulted you family line, or suggested you think two chaps resting in a field are early homosexuals because you have dark thoughts about your own sexuality. If the6 make you happy, go for it.

    Because

    1. You implied that I’m a fool being duped, when I’m not. These cups are not fake, they are the real thing, they ARE that cheap, they are exactly that old (we know the precise patterns used by English porcelain manufacturers in specific years)

    So, you were totally wrong. Admit it

    Also

    2. You waded in on a subject about which you know nothing - and, worse, you did it with a bogus air of authority. I find this personally and utterly objectionable

    Just to be clear, you are suggesting that people on PB should apologise for having a "bogus air of authority"? Have you thought this through?

    ++++++

    Again, and very obviously, this is a self deprecating joke. Am I aiming too high on PB? Shall I write [joke!] after every joke?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,499
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:



    Just to be clear, you are suggesting that people on PB should apologise for having a "bogus air of authority"? Have you thought this through?

    I think he's been caught knapping.
    I'm giving you a like for sorting out the post cascade which I had royally screwed up.
    Yes, what did you do?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958
    AnneJGP said:

    I don't normally bother to repeat myself if de-threaded but I'm really interested in this point:

    AnneJGP said:

    If you're Burnham, do you have either Mike Kane or Andrew Western hold a press conference this morning announcing they are resigning as MPs and support Burnham as there replacement?

    Surely the NEC wouldn't block him in these circumstances

    It sounds so easy but it means a major change of direction, at the least, for the would-be former MP. It's hard to believe anyone would sacrifice a well paid post unless they'd found it wasn't for them. What would be in it for the designated sacrificial lamb?
    The UK system is not as corrupt as the US one but the patronage of the PM certainly offers opportunities well beyond a couple of years as an MP in an unpopular government. So assuming they believe Burnham will become PM lots of options available.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183
    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If he had anything about him he's sack Mahmood now. But he doesn't so he won't

    If the coup suceeds, there's not much point. And it would look petty; see BoJo's sacking of Gove hours before he went.

    If it fails, there will be plenty of time to put heads on spikes afterwards.
    What's the story with Mahmood?
    She has told Starmer to resign and lay out a timetable
    Surely the other way round ?
    Yes - it is a very long time since I passed my O level in English !!!!!!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,568

    Allies of Burnham tell me this morning a timetable of electing a new Labour leader and PM by conference end of Sept would give the Manchester mayor enough time to get back to Westminster and stand. “Colleagues will not accept another London leader”

    https://x.com/BethRigby/status/2054099502127067214

    Another London leader – whoever can they mean?

    And according to Wikipedia, there are 75 London Labour MPs. Big place, London.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Labour_Party_MPs_in_London
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Manchester is south of the Tyne and therefore in the South
    Yet it is North of the Midlands which clearly aren’t in the South.
    A true northerner holds that the south starts ten miles south of where he was born.
    So, Macclesfield.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,892
    Roger said:

    Do we know as a result of the local election results which pollster gets the award for being closest? And also furthest out?

    .....and how did Find Out Now do?

    FON overrated the Greens and slightly underrated Reform and the LDs, had the Tories and Labour about right
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,907
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:



    Just to be clear, you are suggesting that people on PB should apologise for having a "bogus air of authority"? Have you thought this through?

    I think he's been caught knapping.
    I'm giving you a like for sorting out the post cascade which I had royally screwed up.
    Yes, what did you do?
    I had duplicates of the nest of posts above and tried to delete one of them to avoid the duplication. Obviously got the wrong bit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,892
    edited May 12
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @angusmain.bsky.social‬

    Wes Streeting is already facing growing calls to stand down as PM

    Wes Streeting is a somewhat more egotistical and less experienced version of Starmer. If he's the answer, Labour are asking the wrong question.

    Although I think the point is moot as he has little chance of becoming leader.
    I would laugh if it was Streeting, he is a Blairite to Starmer's Brownite and would move Labour further right infuriating Rayner and Burnham. Most Labour MPs probably want Streeting, most Labour members Burnham or Rayner.

    Basically, Streeting is Rishi to Burnham's Boris and Rayner's Truss
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    Dopermean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if Starmer did announce a timetable for his resignation that isn't technically being ousted in the sense of losing a leadership challenge. We have to see what he announces first. Unless he announces Burnham can return as an MP and give time for that it also means Streeting would likely be next PM, which would infuriate the Labour left, or Rayner, which would terrify the Labour right and not necessarily improve Labour's situation unity wise

    If, and it is if, Starmer announces his resignation it most certainly is him being ousted by his colleagues

    And not at all sure it will be a Streeting coronation
    Is there recent member polling on alternatives?

    Also have they changed the electorate rules or is the vote going to be derailed by a flood of £25 "supporters" ?

    Leon_RegisteredLabourSupporter could be seen on PB
    We really need to stop the membership of the party in Government from having a say on leadership. In opposition you can elect Corbyn, but when in power let the people who work with them day in day out select who would be the best leader. Labour's policy for selecting a leader were the PM to leave instantly is the best approach - let the cabinet select from within.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,146
    Sweeney74 said:

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Manchester is south of the Tyne and therefore in the South
    Midlands, surely.
    My view from the Firth of Forth suggests the Tyne is pretty central too
    Suggesting that my south mancunian housemates were from the North Midlands was guaranteed to liven things up after a few beers :)
  • I’ve just BAXTERED that YouGov poll. It’s funny

    Reform: 360
    Green: 75
    Lib: 69
    Con: 51
    SNP: 45
    Lab: 23


    So on the day that the Labour PM is considering his position, the leading pollster produces a poll showing Labour in SIXTH place. I suggest this is suboptimal for fans of Sir Keir
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,817

    HYUFD said:

    'Senior minister Darren Jones suggests any return of Manchester mayor Andy Burnham would be "fantasy politics", telling the BBC conversations about "strategy" should happen "internally - as opposed to in public"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

    Oooh. Skyr wants Wes?
    Yes and no.

    He absolutely doesn't want Andy Burnham who he thinks is putting ego over the greater good.
    For once I agree with Skyr. Burnham’s desperate careerism is an ugly spectacle

    But then Starmer is guilty of the same, if not worse, as he’s PM
    Could say same for Streeting, and his machinations.

    Labour's problem is with WWC voters in north. The urban yuppies will return out of fear of the fascistos.

    That's why Labour have to go for Burnham. Can you imagine how Wes will go down in County Durham or Nottinghamshire?
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338
    If Burnham could put aside his personal hubris, he should realise that he and his legacy would do far better if he remained Mayor of GM, with a reputation of being"the best Prime Minister we never had", because let's face it, based on his previous tenure in the Commons, did he ever really achieve anything of note?

    Why do people think that as PM he would be able to do a significantly better job than any of the recent incumbents?

    We live in extraordinary times, and we need an extraordinary leader. I just don't see one lurking in any of the current parties, sadly. They've all been caught up in the populist trend - I must give my supporters what they want, not what they need.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958
    edited May 12
    boulay said:

    If Starmer goes I’m looking forward to Trump’s pronouncement on the matter. I am imagining that there will be comments along the lines of:

    “It’s sad what happened to him, he was good until he stopped listening to me.” “I tried to help him be part of the most successful war in history ever”. “If he had listened to my advice about not letting in immigrants this wouldn’t have happened”.

    It will all be about Trump and magical advice ignored.

    Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,930
    Well, if we're being all high brow, I'm about halfway through The Broken Seals, the first volume of The Marshes of Mount Liang. It's the full version (120 chapters), and the 100 chapter version by Sidney Shapiro[sp] is one of my favourite books.

    I'm really rather enjoying it. There are many variations I've noticed (not reading them side-by-side) such as Panther Head Lin Chong becoming Leopard Head, and Nine Dragons Shi Jin becoming the Tattooed Dragon (or similar).

    Fantastic story. Think of Robin Hood, set in Ancient China, directed by Quentin Tarantino (but with less women/feet), on a scale of Lord of the Rings. Action all over the place.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,907

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
    I’m now drinking my morning coffee from my £16 ANTIQUE COFFEE CAN (NB @turbotubbs - you still haven’t apologised) and I’m looking at it again and I’ve noticed the lower figure has his hand on the other guy’s thigh. Squeezing it?

    So, definitely sexual. Yet I’ve also noticed the upper figure is slightly female in shape despite the beard. Is this about women cross dressing as men, on pleasant Dutch farms, so they can seduce workers and undermine 17th century Dutch farming production?

    Quite a complex message. For a tile
    What do you want an apology for again? I said I wouldn’t buy two of them as I don’t think they are quite as old as claimed. I’ve not insulted you family line, or suggested you think two chaps resting in a field are early homosexuals because you have dark thoughts about your own sexuality. If the6 make you happy, go for it.
    Because

    1. You implied that I’m a fool being duped, when I’m not. These cups are not fake, they are the real thing, they ARE that cheap, they are exactly that old (we know the precise patterns used by English porcelain manufacturers in specific years)

    So, you were totally wrong. Admit it

    Also

    2. You waded in on a subject about which you know nothing - and, worse, you did it with a bogus air of authority. I find this personally and utterly objectionable

    Just to be clear, you are suggesting that people on PB should apologise for having a "bogus air of authority"? Have you thought this through?

    ++++++

    Again, and very obviously, this is a self deprecating joke. Am I aiming too high on PB? Shall I write [joke!] after every joke?

    Well, mine was an attempt at a joke too @Leon_VotedForStarmer
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,568

    Allies of Burnham tell me this morning a timetable of electing a new Labour leader and PM by conference end of Sept would give the Manchester mayor enough time to get back to Westminster and stand. “Colleagues will not accept another London leader”

    https://x.com/BethRigby/status/2054099502127067214

    Another London leader – whoever can they mean?

    And according to Wikipedia, there are 75 London Labour MPs. Big place, London.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Labour_Party_MPs_in_London
    "Colleagues" of course only have a third of a say - but Labour Party MPs don't strike me as particularly averse to the concept of London MPs.
    And members, who hold another third of the vote, are famously London-dominated.
    And of course due to the peculiarity of the Labour Party, unions get the remaining third of the vote. God knows what they think.
    I'd suggest AB has the kernel of a point that there may be some electoral advantage to considering a leader from outside of London. But leadership elections are rarely about voters.

    Have I got the mechanics of the leadership election right? Or am I out of date? Are the three quidders still a thing?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,892

    If Burnham could put aside his personal hubris, he should realise that he and his legacy would do far better if he remained Mayor of GM, with a reputation of being"the best Prime Minister we never had", because let's face it, based on his previous tenure in the Commons, did he ever really achieve anything of note?

    Why do people think that as PM he would be able to do a significantly better job than any of the recent incumbents?

    We live in extraordinary times, and we need an extraordinary leader. I just don't see one lurking in any of the current parties, sadly. They've all been caught up in the populist trend - I must give my supporters what they want, not what they need.

    As Bunrham is the only Labour contender who clearly outpolls Farage
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Here’s an evening mystery to take our minds off the Labour fandango

    For a while I’ve been buying 17th-18th century Delft tiles and turning them into coasters. They are superb at this. Just spray the back with lacquer, if needed. Add felt feet. Done

    You have a magical piece of European history repurposed

    But this one is my favourite, so it’s on my bedside table. Because it is so enigmatic

    It appears to show a cloven hoofed demon walking past an idling amorous couple, where the man has given up his shovel. So the demon is condemning idle love? Or indolence? And yet, look more closely. Both humans are male. Bearded. And they seem to be perfectly happy. And the demon actually looks like he might be blessing them

    My guess right now is that this hand painted tile was done by a dissident delft gay tile artist, sneaking his perverse sexuality past the Protestant mores of the day and quietly celebrating man love



    Isn’t it just the Devil pointing out his approval of workers idling in the fields? Could have been part of a set on the seven deadly sins.
    Again that was my thought. But look closely: the couple are clearly in an amorous position. One leans warmly into the other. They are almost kissing

    So then it is the devil approving of gay sex in idle farm-workers? Was that a massive issue in 17th century Holland? Did the tulips go unpicked because too many butch young rustic chaps were getting it on in the dykes??

    I love this tile. Every time I look at it I see something new and change my mind. Normal coasters don’t do this
    I thought that was your state of being, irrespective of external stimulus ?
    I’m now drinking my morning coffee from my £16 ANTIQUE COFFEE CAN (NB @turbotubbs - you still haven’t apologised) and I’m looking at it again and I’ve noticed the lower figure has his hand on the other guy’s thigh. Squeezing it?

    So, definitely sexual. Yet I’ve also noticed the upper figure is slightly female in shape despite the beard. Is this about women cross dressing as men, on pleasant Dutch farms, so they can seduce workers and undermine 17th century Dutch farming production?

    Quite a complex message. For a tile
    What do you want an apology for again? I said I wouldn’t buy two of them as I don’t think they are quite as old as claimed. I’ve not insulted you family line, or suggested you think two chaps resting in a field are early homosexuals because you have dark thoughts about your own sexuality. If the6 make you happy, go for it.
    Because

    1. You implied that I’m a fool being duped, when I’m not. These cups are not fake, they are the real thing, they ARE that cheap, they are exactly that old (we know the precise patterns used by English porcelain manufacturers in specific years)

    So, you were totally wrong. Admit it

    Also

    2. You waded in on a subject about which you know nothing - and, worse, you did it with a bogus air of authority. I find this personally and utterly objectionable
    Just to be clear, you are suggesting that people on PB should apologise for having a "bogus air of authority"? Have you thought this through?

    ++++++

    Again, and very obviously, this is a self deprecating joke. Am I aiming too high on PB? Shall I write [joke!] after every joke?

    Well, mine was an attempt at a joke too @Leon_VotedForStarmer

    ++++++

    Then let us play the harps of sweet concord, and turn our attention to the dramaturgy on Downing Street
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    Cookie said:

    Allies of Burnham tell me this morning a timetable of electing a new Labour leader and PM by conference end of Sept would give the Manchester mayor enough time to get back to Westminster and stand. “Colleagues will not accept another London leader”

    https://x.com/BethRigby/status/2054099502127067214

    Another London leader – whoever can they mean?

    And according to Wikipedia, there are 75 London Labour MPs. Big place, London.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Labour_Party_MPs_in_London
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Manchester is south of the Tyne and therefore in the South
    Yet it is North of the Midlands which clearly aren’t in the South.
    A true northerner holds that the south starts ten miles south of where he was born.
    So, Macclesfield.

    On that basis it's the border is Birtley or Washington (not DC).

    Worth saying that the centre of England is in Fenny Drayton, Leicestershire. The center of the United Kingdom is Whitendale Hanging Stones in Lancashire that is 110(ish) miles further north.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,433
    Sweeney74 said:

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Manchester is south of the Tyne and therefore in the South
    Midlands, surely.
    My view from the Firth of Forth suggests the Tyne is pretty central too
    From my perch south of the Eden and Solway Firth, and a fortiori south of the Tyne I can see Scotland clearly and Manchester is 120 miles south. I don't think I live in the south. Hackney, where I was born, feels a long way away.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,170
    Sell Sterling ? (Not financial advice !)

    If this is the trajectory of the regime after Starmer it’s deffo back to the seventies.



    ‘ BREAKING: Labour’s influential Tribune group of more than 100 MPs has called for less “caution” on fiscal policy in a new pamphlet that demands a change of direction to the left

    Louise Haigh, the Labour MP who chairs the group, says the current structure of the UK Treasury’s role in fiscal policy “resolved in favour of caution”

    She says Britain’s “fiscal and institutional framework” is “unfit for purpose”

    She also calls for major tax rises on wealth

    With extraordinary timing, Tribune has published this pamphlet at the exact same time as the bond market opens this morning’


    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2054094226049192356?s=61
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,193
    I see the left are already moving for more wealth taxes / tax hikes. Perhaps Starmer was the moderating force, but they are utterly loony
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,170
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    Allies of Burnham tell me this morning a timetable of electing a new Labour leader and PM by conference end of Sept would give the Manchester mayor enough time to get back to Westminster and stand. “Colleagues will not accept another London leader”

    https://x.com/BethRigby/status/2054099502127067214

    Another London leader – whoever can they mean?

    And according to Wikipedia, there are 75 London Labour MPs. Big place, London.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Labour_Party_MPs_in_London
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Burnham should switch to plan B. Remain Mayor of the Frozen North till his term expires in 2028. Then return to the Commons via a convenient by-election in time to relieve a beleaguered Ange/Ed/Wes (delete as appropriate) struggling after two years in office, giving Burnham a year as Prime Minister to turn things round before the 2029 general election.

    Manchester is south of the Tyne and therefore in the South
    Yet it is North of the Midlands which clearly aren’t in the South.
    A true northerner holds that the south starts ten miles south of where he was born.
    So, Macclesfield.

    On that basis it's the border is Birtley or Washington (not DC).

    Worth saying that the centre of England is in Fenny Drayton, Leicestershire. The center of the United Kingdom is Whitendale Hanging Stones in Lancashire that is 110(ish) miles further north.
    That would make the border pretty much where I used to work !

    Meriden always branded itself as the centre of England.
This discussion has been closed.