To staunch the bleeding heart of @nico67 and others on here, I did some actual research on Indefinite Leave to Remain
Anyone who gets ILR is told lots of things, including this crucial paragraph:
"ILR is not the same as citizenship. While ILR grants permanent residence rights, it can be lost through extended absences from the UK (over 2 years) or serious criminal convictions. Only British citizenship provides truly permanent status that cannot be revoked under normal circumstances."
So they are made aware that it is contingent. That it CAN be revoked. There. Now that's settled, we can all calm down
Comes up depressingly often in my cases. Being blunt about it you have young men struggling with the language, who have no roots or connections here, who see young girls going around drunk not wearing very much and they think anything they do will be welcome. None of this excuses their behaviour which arises from the urgent physical need, a cultural incomprehension and being a long way from home. I struggle to blame these young men, even as I get them convicted. I have no hesitation blaming those who allowed them to be here.
Your last sentence needs a bit of expansion. Who allowed them to be here in the sense of how did they get here in the first place? Who allowed them to remain and what should they have done instead given the law of the right of refugees etc? Where should they be at this moment if not in the UK? How would anyone get them to that as yet unnamed place?
We give them rights to remain because they come from hell holes. And they do. But the rights are contingent on our obligation to give them shelter. Why? Why should our women and girls face these risks and suffer these consequences? Who asked them? The risks are taken not by those making the decisions, they are taken by those living very different lives. We do not pay nearly enough attention to the victims. It is unacceptable.
I'm sure some of the people taking the decisions are women. I'm sure some of them are parents of girls. Every policy carries risks that must be balanced against benefits. If we only focused on risks we would never build a road or do anything. Allowing in refugees creates benefits for the refugees themselves who would otherwise face rape or death themselves. It creates benefits for the world as it helps to deal with a global problem. It creates benefits for society when those refugees become useful and productive and valued members of our community. But of course some of them will turn out to do bad things, because that is true of any group of people. This should all be obvious.
In the last 15 months I have done around 15 trials that have run and several pleas where cases have been resolved. In that time I have had:
The rape of a schoolgirl by an Albanian who was appealing his right to asylum. The rape of a young woman by someone who was claiming to be a French citizen who had rights to remain under the Brexit deal but was in fact Libyan. Several cases of people who had no rights to be here at all who were operating cannabis farms. The rape of a woman in relationship with a Nigerian who had been granted ILR in what was a very abusive relationship. Multiple rapes and abuse by 2 different Polish citizens claiming the right to be here under the Brexit deal.
This is obviously anecdotal and other prosecutors may well have different experience but it would be absurd not to acknowledge the additional risks for women and girls resident in this country from those who really should not be in this country. We are just not taking this seriously enough.
To staunch the bleeding heart of @nico67 and others on here, I did some actual research on Indefinite Leave to Remain
Anyone who gets ILR is told lots of things, including this crucial paragraph:
"ILR is not the same as citizenship. While ILR grants permanent residence rights, it can be lost through extended absences from the UK (over 2 years) or serious criminal convictions. Only British citizenship provides truly permanent status that cannot be revoked under normal circumstances."
So they are made aware that it is contingent. That it CAN be revoked. There. Now that's settled, we can all calm down
Comes up depressingly often in my cases. Being blunt about it you have young men struggling with the language, who have no roots or connections here, who see young girls going around drunk not wearing very much and they think anything they do will be welcome. None of this excuses their behaviour which arises from the urgent physical need, a cultural incomprehension and being a long way from home. I struggle to blame these young men, even as I get them convicted. I have no hesitation blaming those who allowed them to be here.
Your last sentence needs a bit of expansion. Who allowed them to be here in the sense of how did they get here in the first place? Who allowed them to remain and what should they have done instead given the law of the right of refugees etc? Where should they be at this moment if not in the UK? How would anyone get them to that as yet unnamed place?
We give them rights to remain because they come from hell holes. And they do. But the rights are contingent on our obligation to give them shelter. Why? Why should our women and girls face these risks and suffer these consequences? Who asked them? The risks are taken not by those making the decisions, they are taken by those living very different lives. We do not pay nearly enough attention to the victims. It is unacceptable.
I'm sure some of the people taking the decisions are women. I'm sure some of them are parents of girls. Every policy carries risks that must be balanced against benefits. If we only focused on risks we would never build a road or do anything. Allowing in refugees creates benefits for the refugees themselves who would otherwise face rape or death themselves. It creates benefits for the world as it helps to deal with a global problem. It creates benefits for society when those refugees become useful and productive and valued members of our community. But of course some of them will turn out to do bad things, because that is true of any group of people. This should all be obvious.
In the last 15 months I have done around 15 trials that have run and several pleas where cases have been resolved. In that time I have had:
The rape of a schoolgirl by an Albanian who was appealing his right to asylum. The rape of a young woman by someone who was claiming to be a French citizen who had rights to remain under the Brexit deal but was in fact Libyan. Several cases of people who had no rights to be here at all who were operating cannabis farms. The rape of a woman in relationship with a Nigerian who had been granted ILR in what was a very abusive relationship. Multiple rapes and abuse by 2 different Polish citizens claiming the right to be here under the Brexit deal.
This is obviously anecdotal and other prosecutors may well have different experience but it would be absurd not to acknowledge the additional risks for women and girls resident in this country from those who really should not be in this country. We are just not taking this seriously enough.
Growing expectation that a Labour MP will quit over the next few days to trigger a by-election so Andy Burnham can return to Westminster.
A few names have been circulating for a while.
All eyes on the next 48 hours 👀
Perhaps it will all work out brilliantly. As the tension grows, so too does the interest and anticipation. It's not hard to imagine the whole country getting swept up in it, rooting for or against, feeling emotionally invested in the fate of this man Burnham.
I do feel somewhat emotionally invested in the man's fate. I'd prefer to see him lose.
I think the Rwanda policy was simply mad and an astonishing waste of scarce resources but Sunak is right that one of the reasons the mainstream parties died on Thursday is because people get completely fed up of governments who simply can't solve a problem.
I think he is also right in saying that the problems governments have is the interventionist role played by our courts but he completely fails to recognise that it is politicians who have given the courts both the power and duty to do that.
The answer to me is much more fundamental. It is withdrawal from the Convention on Refugees and passing legislation that those who come here by boat without our permission will simply be ejected because they have no rights whatsoever. But our political class are simply not up for that kind of law. Its much easier to blame the courts for enforcing the laws they passed.
++++++++
Having now been to Rwanda - last week - I can say with some authority that: it would likely have worked, if enacted properly
Rwanda is actually a perfect choice for such a scheme, in the absence of a handy but bleak nearby island, as the Australians had
It is a long long long way away. It is locked up in central Africa. It is poor and in some places grim, you really don't want to live there. But it it also stable and safe, so you can humanely send people there, if all these people care about is being safe (and that is supposedly the situation with asylum seekers, unless of course they are fake and just looking for better benefits and economic opportunity)
I reckon HMG would have solved the boats overnight if they'd managed to get a few hundred people there, but done it intensely - ie shipping 90% of arrivals in one month. That would have terrified the boat people and the boats would have stopped
Exactly. And there we have it: Rwanda would have worked.
Sunak simply didn't have enough time to overcome all the legal obstacles and political resistance.
What do you mean 'have enough time' - he called an election a year early!
I think the Rwanda policy was simply mad and an astonishing waste of scarce resources but Sunak is right that one of the reasons the mainstream parties died on Thursday is because people get completely fed up of governments who simply can't solve a problem.
I think he is also right in saying that the problems governments have is the interventionist role played by our courts but he completely fails to recognise that it is politicians who have given the courts both the power and duty to do that.
The answer to me is much more fundamental. It is withdrawal from the Convention on Refugees and passing legislation that those who come here by boat without our permission will simply be ejected because they have no rights whatsoever. But our political class are simply not up for that kind of law. Its much easier to blame the courts for enforcing the laws they passed.
++++++++
Having now been to Rwanda - last week - I can say with some authority that: it would likely have worked, if enacted properly
Rwanda is actually a perfect choice for such a scheme, in the absence of a handy but bleak nearby island, as the Australians had
It is a long long long way away. It is locked up in central Africa. It is poor and in some places grim, you really don't want to live there. But it it also stable and safe, so you can humanely send people there, if all these people care about is being safe (and that is supposedly the situation with asylum seekers, unless of course they are fake and just looking for better benefits and economic opportunity)
I reckon HMG would have solved the boats overnight if they'd managed to get a few hundred people there, but done it intensely - ie shipping 90% of arrivals in one month. That would have terrified the boat people and the boats would have stopped
Exactly. And there we have it: Rwanda would have worked.
Sunak simply didn't have enough time to overcome all the legal obstacles and political resistance.
What do you mean 'have enough time' - he called an election a year early!
Growing expectation that a Labour MP will quit over the next few days to trigger a by-election so Andy Burnham can return to Westminster.
A few names have been circulating for a while.
All eyes on the next 48 hours 👀
I think a leader in general should not fear rival talent, doing so makes him look small. Now, I know the quantity to which Burnham counts as a "talent" is disputed, he has run Manchester well but has been cack- handed in his machinations, but he should be regarded as a player in this
And Burnham in a by-election should be, like Eminem says, one shot, one opportunity. So, like a snail, he's got to formulate a decent plot, else he's gone.
I think the Rwanda policy was simply mad and an astonishing waste of scarce resources but Sunak is right that one of the reasons the mainstream parties died on Thursday is because people get completely fed up of governments who simply can't solve a problem.
I think he is also right in saying that the problems governments have is the interventionist role played by our courts but he completely fails to recognise that it is politicians who have given the courts both the power and duty to do that.
The answer to me is much more fundamental. It is withdrawal from the Convention on Refugees and passing legislation that those who come here by boat without our permission will simply be ejected because they have no rights whatsoever. But our political class are simply not up for that kind of law. Its much easier to blame the courts for enforcing the laws they passed.
++++++++
Having now been to Rwanda - last week - I can say with some authority that: it would likely have worked, if enacted properly
Rwanda is actually a perfect choice for such a scheme, in the absence of a handy but bleak nearby island, as the Australians had
It is a long long long way away. It is locked up in central Africa. It is poor and in some places grim, you really don't want to live there. But it it also stable and safe, so you can humanely send people there, if all these people care about is being safe (and that is supposedly the situation with asylum seekers, unless of course they are fake and just looking for better benefits and economic opportunity)
I reckon HMG would have solved the boats overnight if they'd managed to get a few hundred people there, but done it intensely - ie shipping 90% of arrivals in one month. That would have terrified the boat people and the boats would have stopped
Exactly. And there we have it: Rwanda would have worked.
Sunak simply didn't have enough time to overcome all the legal obstacles and political resistance.
What do you mean 'have enough time' - he called an election a year early!
I'm sure 20 people have already corrected you so I'll make it 21. The GE had to be hold before the end of January 2025 so you could argue six or seven months early but not a year.
A policy which puts one group at risk - women and girls - is not to be balanced by the possibility that migrant men might avoid unpleasantness in their home country. The two are not the same. A British government should put the interests of women here first.
That risk should not be run - either by not allowing men from cultures where the risk of bad behaviour is greater to come here or by securely detaining them until their position has been regularised. And if they do commit such assaults then they should automatically be deported and any asylum or other claim stopped. A country has no obligation to provide a better life to criminals or those who do not behave with the minimum standards of civilised behaviour. Nor should we accept some of the feeble excuses the courts have been accepting from those convicted of such behaviour.
I think the Rwanda policy was simply mad and an astonishing waste of scarce resources but Sunak is right that one of the reasons the mainstream parties died on Thursday is because people get completely fed up of governments who simply can't solve a problem.
I think he is also right in saying that the problems governments have is the interventionist role played by our courts but he completely fails to recognise that it is politicians who have given the courts both the power and duty to do that.
The answer to me is much more fundamental. It is withdrawal from the Convention on Refugees and passing legislation that those who come here by boat without our permission will simply be ejected because they have no rights whatsoever. But our political class are simply not up for that kind of law. Its much easier to blame the courts for enforcing the laws they passed.
++++++++
Having now been to Rwanda - last week - I can say with some authority that: it would likely have worked, if enacted properly
Rwanda is actually a perfect choice for such a scheme, in the absence of a handy but bleak nearby island, as the Australians had
It is a long long long way away. It is locked up in central Africa. It is poor and in some places grim, you really don't want to live there. But it it also stable and safe, so you can humanely send people there, if all these people care about is being safe (and that is supposedly the situation with asylum seekers, unless of course they are fake and just looking for better benefits and economic opportunity)
I reckon HMG would have solved the boats overnight if they'd managed to get a few hundred people there, but done it intensely - ie shipping 90% of arrivals in one month. That would have terrified the boat people and the boats would have stopped
Exactly. And there we have it: Rwanda would have worked.
Sunak simply didn't have enough time to overcome all the legal obstacles and political resistance.
What do you mean 'have enough time' - he called an election a year early!
I'm sure 20 people have already corrected you so I'll make it 21. The GE had to be hold before the end of January 2025 so you could argue six or seven months early but not a year.
The reality was if he waited until the last moment it would have meant a general election campaign that would have straddled Christmas and New Year holidays.
Growing expectation that a Labour MP will quit over the next few days to trigger a by-election so Andy Burnham can return to Westminster.
A few names have been circulating for a while.
All eyes on the next 48 hours 👀
Perhaps it will all work out brilliantly. As the tension grows, so too does the interest and anticipation. It's not hard to imagine the whole country getting swept up in it, rooting for or against, feeling emotionally invested in the fate of this man Burnham.
Maybe he'll keep on trying and losing in repeated by-elections while the leadership candidates keep holding off until he finally wins one. Starmer could survive indefinitely.
I think the Rwanda policy was simply mad and an astonishing waste of scarce resources but Sunak is right that one of the reasons the mainstream parties died on Thursday is because people get completely fed up of governments who simply can't solve a problem.
I think he is also right in saying that the problems governments have is the interventionist role played by our courts but he completely fails to recognise that it is politicians who have given the courts both the power and duty to do that.
The answer to me is much more fundamental. It is withdrawal from the Convention on Refugees and passing legislation that those who come here by boat without our permission will simply be ejected because they have no rights whatsoever. But our political class are simply not up for that kind of law. Its much easier to blame the courts for enforcing the laws they passed.
++++++++
Having now been to Rwanda - last week - I can say with some authority that: it would likely have worked, if enacted properly
Rwanda is actually a perfect choice for such a scheme, in the absence of a handy but bleak nearby island, as the Australians had
It is a long long long way away. It is locked up in central Africa. It is poor and in some places grim, you really don't want to live there. But it it also stable and safe, so you can humanely send people there, if all these people care about is being safe (and that is supposedly the situation with asylum seekers, unless of course they are fake and just looking for better benefits and economic opportunity)
I reckon HMG would have solved the boats overnight if they'd managed to get a few hundred people there, but done it intensely - ie shipping 90% of arrivals in one month. That would have terrified the boat people and the boats would have stopped
Exactly. And there we have it: Rwanda would have worked.
Sunak simply didn't have enough time to overcome all the legal obstacles and political resistance.
What do you mean 'have enough time' - he called an election a year early!
I'm sure 20 people have already corrected you so I'll make it 21. The GE had to be hold before the end of January 2025 so you could argue six or seven months early but not a year.
Growing expectation that a Labour MP will quit over the next few days to trigger a by-election so Andy Burnham can return to Westminster.
A few names have been circulating for a while.
All eyes on the next 48 hours 👀
Perhaps it will all work out brilliantly. As the tension grows, so too does the interest and anticipation. It's not hard to imagine the whole country getting swept up in it, rooting for or against, feeling emotionally invested in the fate of this man Burnham.
I do feel somewhat emotionally invested in the man's fate. I'd prefer to see him lose.
I think the Rwanda policy was simply mad and an astonishing waste of scarce resources but Sunak is right that one of the reasons the mainstream parties died on Thursday is because people get completely fed up of governments who simply can't solve a problem.
I think he is also right in saying that the problems governments have is the interventionist role played by our courts but he completely fails to recognise that it is politicians who have given the courts both the power and duty to do that.
The answer to me is much more fundamental. It is withdrawal from the Convention on Refugees and passing legislation that those who come here by boat without our permission will simply be ejected because they have no rights whatsoever. But our political class are simply not up for that kind of law. Its much easier to blame the courts for enforcing the laws they passed.
++++++++
Having now been to Rwanda - last week - I can say with some authority that: it would likely have worked, if enacted properly
Rwanda is actually a perfect choice for such a scheme, in the absence of a handy but bleak nearby island, as the Australians had
It is a long long long way away. It is locked up in central Africa. It is poor and in some places grim, you really don't want to live there. But it it also stable and safe, so you can humanely send people there, if all these people care about is being safe (and that is supposedly the situation with asylum seekers, unless of course they are fake and just looking for better benefits and economic opportunity)
I reckon HMG would have solved the boats overnight if they'd managed to get a few hundred people there, but done it intensely - ie shipping 90% of arrivals in one month. That would have terrified the boat people and the boats would have stopped
Exactly. And there we have it: Rwanda would have worked.
Sunak simply didn't have enough time to overcome all the legal obstacles and political resistance.
What do you mean 'have enough time' - he called an election a year early!
I'm sure 20 people have already corrected you so I'll make it 21. The GE had to be hold before the end of January 2025 so you could argue six or seven months early but not a year.
The reality was if he waited until the last moment it would have meant a general election campaign that would have straddled Christmas and New Year holidays.
That would have been a courageous move.
Besides, various skeletons that had been hidden in various closets couldn't have been relied on to stay hidden for much longer.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
I think the Rwanda policy was simply mad and an astonishing waste of scarce resources but Sunak is right that one of the reasons the mainstream parties died on Thursday is because people get completely fed up of governments who simply can't solve a problem.
I think he is also right in saying that the problems governments have is the interventionist role played by our courts but he completely fails to recognise that it is politicians who have given the courts both the power and duty to do that.
The answer to me is much more fundamental. It is withdrawal from the Convention on Refugees and passing legislation that those who come here by boat without our permission will simply be ejected because they have no rights whatsoever. But our political class are simply not up for that kind of law. Its much easier to blame the courts for enforcing the laws they passed.
++++++++
Having now been to Rwanda - last week - I can say with some authority that: it would likely have worked, if enacted properly
Rwanda is actually a perfect choice for such a scheme, in the absence of a handy but bleak nearby island, as the Australians had
It is a long long long way away. It is locked up in central Africa. It is poor and in some places grim, you really don't want to live there. But it it also stable and safe, so you can humanely send people there, if all these people care about is being safe (and that is supposedly the situation with asylum seekers, unless of course they are fake and just looking for better benefits and economic opportunity)
I reckon HMG would have solved the boats overnight if they'd managed to get a few hundred people there, but done it intensely - ie shipping 90% of arrivals in one month. That would have terrified the boat people and the boats would have stopped
Exactly. And there we have it: Rwanda would have worked.
Sunak simply didn't have enough time to overcome all the legal obstacles and political resistance.
What do you mean 'have enough time' - he called an election a year early!
I'm sure 20 people have already corrected you so I'll make it 21. The GE had to be hold before the end of January 2025 so you could argue six or seven months early but not a year.
The reality was if he waited until the last moment it would have meant a general election campaign that would have straddled Christmas and New Year holidays.
That would have been a courageous move.
Besides, various skeletons that had been hidden in various closets couldn't have been relied on to stay hidden for much longer.
There was the unbudgeted for public sector pay increases which would have meant no pay increase and strikes (so even fewer Tory MPs) or an emergency budget (again even fewer Tory MPs)
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I accept I am not a voter that is going to win the Tories an election. And perhaps it's because I've fallen out of love with Labour.
But Badenoch's Tories I feel have something to say to the country that is different to what I've heard before. There are some ideas and some energy that I felt disappeared basically as soon as May took over. I feel like for the first time in a long time, they'd probably be interested in hearing from 25-45 types rather than pensioners.
I'm not saying it's a big coalition of voters they are swimming in - but I think they can generate a new and unique set who think Reform are too extreme, but Labour is hopeless. Immigration is not a high concern of mine, but I do think it is too high and so I want it controlled. I want planning reform. I want young people to be able to buy a house. I want people to feel safe on the streets. I think Britain in places is broken but I don't think it is beyond repair. I walk out into London, and I don't see a broken city - this is what I want for the rest of the UK.
Badenoch's Tories are in my view, speaking to that. And whilst they may not be successful, they are in my view the first party to try and look at a new group of people who might vote for them in the future.
There are certain things that I knew only Labour would deliver, like nationalising the railways. I suspect the Tories will not undo this. I am sure there are other examples.
So, in a way the Tories are operating in a space more like one I would be happy with anyway.
I think the Rwanda policy was simply mad and an astonishing waste of scarce resources but Sunak is right that one of the reasons the mainstream parties died on Thursday is because people get completely fed up of governments who simply can't solve a problem.
I think he is also right in saying that the problems governments have is the interventionist role played by our courts but he completely fails to recognise that it is politicians who have given the courts both the power and duty to do that.
The answer to me is much more fundamental. It is withdrawal from the Convention on Refugees and passing legislation that those who come here by boat without our permission will simply be ejected because they have no rights whatsoever. But our political class are simply not up for that kind of law. Its much easier to blame the courts for enforcing the laws they passed.
++++++++
Having now been to Rwanda - last week - I can say with some authority that: it would likely have worked, if enacted properly
Rwanda is actually a perfect choice for such a scheme, in the absence of a handy but bleak nearby island, as the Australians had
It is a long long long way away. It is locked up in central Africa. It is poor and in some places grim, you really don't want to live there. But it it also stable and safe, so you can humanely send people there, if all these people care about is being safe (and that is supposedly the situation with asylum seekers, unless of course they are fake and just looking for better benefits and economic opportunity)
I reckon HMG would have solved the boats overnight if they'd managed to get a few hundred people there, but done it intensely - ie shipping 90% of arrivals in one month. That would have terrified the boat people and the boats would have stopped
Exactly. And there we have it: Rwanda would have worked.
Sunak simply didn't have enough time to overcome all the legal obstacles and political resistance.
What do you mean 'have enough time' - he called an election a year early!
I'm sure 20 people have already corrected you so I'll make it 21. The GE had to be hold before the end of January 2025 so you could argue six or seven months early but not a year.
The reality was if he waited until the last moment it would have meant a general election campaign that would have straddled Christmas and New Year holidays.
That would have been a courageous move.
Besides, various skeletons that had been hidden in various closets couldn't have been relied on to stay hidden for much longer.
There was the unbudgeted for public sector pay increases which would have meant no pay increase and strikes (so even fewer Tory MPs) or an emergency budget (again even fewer Tory MPs)
For starters. Then there was the prisons filling up, the Afghan refugee fiasco and a pile of other stuff I've forgotten. There's a lot that's dismal about the Starmer government, but it requires an awful lot of sauce for anyone linked to its predecessor to criticise it.
Surely calling for defenestration is grounds for it?
Catherine West has said she will do this: (Guardian)
Catherine West, a Labour backbencher, has already said she’ll challenge the prime minister for leadership on Monday if he does not set out timetable to resign. Separately, about 40 MPs have already called on Starmer to step down or set out an exit plan.
Prediction: She won't.
I think by tomorrow she will be 24 hours into a black hole from which she may emerge in time.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Surely calling for defenestration is grounds for it?
Catherine West has said she will do this: (Guardian)
Catherine West, a Labour backbencher, has already said she’ll challenge the prime minister for leadership on Monday if he does not set out timetable to resign. Separately, about 40 MPs have already called on Starmer to step down or set out an exit plan.
Prediction: She won't.
I think by tomorrow she will be 24 hours into a black hole from which she may emerge in time.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
It has a V & A art gallery ( but then so does Stratford Newham as of last month!).
There are certain things that I knew only Labour would deliver, like nationalising the railways. I suspect the Tories will not undo this. I am sure there are other examples.
So, in a way the Tories are operating in a space more like one I would be happy with anyway.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
Has Rayner and others thought just how the electorate will act if Burnham stands in any seat on the basis he is walking into Downing street as the de facto PM ?
Apart from finding a winning seat, why would the constituents accept being used ?
The whole idea is surreal and will have serious problems for labour and the country, not least with the bond markets
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
Yep. Or maybe it needs one step further. The 'old' three form a National Anti Populist Popular Insurgence. With all the shit being talked in politics Britain needs a NAPPI.
I accept I am not a voter that is going to win the Tories an election. And perhaps it's because I've fallen out of love with Labour.
But Badenoch's Tories I feel have something to say to the country that is different to what I've heard before. There are some ideas and some energy that I felt disappeared basically as soon as May took over. I feel like for the first time in a long time, they'd probably be interested in hearing from 25-45 types rather than pensioners.
I'm not saying it's a big coalition of voters they are swimming in - but I think they can generate a new and unique set who think Reform are too extreme, but Labour is hopeless. Immigration is not a high concern of mine, but I do think it is too high and so I want it controlled. I want planning reform. I want young people to be able to buy a house. I want people to feel safe on the streets. I think Britain in places is broken but I don't think it is beyond repair. I walk out into London, and I don't see a broken city - this is what I want for the rest of the UK.
Badenoch's Tories are in my view, speaking to that. And whilst they may not be successful, they are in my view the first party to try and look at a new group of people who might vote for them in the future.
Unfortunately all I've heard from Badenoch is the same bunch of uncosted pledges I've heard from Reform and the Greens. She may occasionally talk the talk but in order to do what she claims would be best for Britain would require someone to take some pain - will it be pensioners (the core Conservative vote) or other parts of public spending and the welfare budget? If she wants to abolish stamp duty, how will the shortfall in public finances be closed? What will be cut - let's have some sense of that thinking.
Here's another example - we've had the usual bleating in my part of the world from the Conservative Mayoral candidate in Newham about policing. Now, ignoring the fact operational Police stations were sold off by the Conservative Mayor and beat officers were replaced by van patrols by a Conservative Home Secretary, the constant clamour for "more Police" neglects the unfortunate truth no one wants to be a police officer. It's not there are numbers of officers sitting idle, there are no officers.
I suppose she could argue for recruiting migrants into the Police force in exchange for citizenship though I imagine that would be considered "courageous".
@SandyRentool, I think, made the useful observation this morning while the Conservatives did quite well in London (a tiny net gain of Councillors and unlucky not to have won four or five Councils), it wasn't so pretty outside the capital. Indeed, the London Conservative Councillors amounted for half the national total of Conservative seats.
Has Rayner and others thought just how the electorate will act if Burnham stands in any seat on the basis he is walking into Downing street as the de facto PM ?
Apart from finding a winning seat, why would the constituents accept being used ?
The whole idea is surreal and will have serious problems for labour and the country, not least with the bond markets
Well the Battery is your man for an explanation of the floodlit path.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
(I'm more of a Mr Buy-rite myself)
I would just say I have never been in a Waitrose though I do shop at M & S food
I accept I am not a voter that is going to win the Tories an election. And perhaps it's because I've fallen out of love with Labour.
But Badenoch's Tories I feel have something to say to the country that is different to what I've heard before. There are some ideas and some energy that I felt disappeared basically as soon as May took over. I feel like for the first time in a long time, they'd probably be interested in hearing from 25-45 types rather than pensioners.
I'm not saying it's a big coalition of voters they are swimming in - but I think they can generate a new and unique set who think Reform are too extreme, but Labour is hopeless. Immigration is not a high concern of mine, but I do think it is too high and so I want it controlled. I want planning reform. I want young people to be able to buy a house. I want people to feel safe on the streets. I think Britain in places is broken but I don't think it is beyond repair. I walk out into London, and I don't see a broken city - this is what I want for the rest of the UK.
Badenoch's Tories are in my view, speaking to that. And whilst they may not be successful, they are in my view the first party to try and look at a new group of people who might vote for them in the future.
Unfortunately all I've heard from Badenoch is the same bunch of uncosted pledges I've heard from Reform and the Greens. She may occasionally talk the talk but in order to do what she claims would be best for Britain would require someone to take some pain - will it be pensioners (the core Conservative vote) or other parts of public spending and the welfare budget? If she wants to abolish stamp duty, how will the shortfall in public finances be closed? What will be cut - let's have some sense of that thinking.
Here's another example - we've had the usual bleating in my part of the world from the Conservative Mayoral candidate in Newham about policing. Now, ignoring the fact operational Police stations were sold off by the Conservative Mayor and beat officers were replaced by van patrols by a Conservative Home Secretary, the constant clamour for "more Police" neglects the unfortunate truth no one wants to be a police officer. It's not there are numbers of officers sitting idle, there are no officers.
I suppose she could argue for recruiting migrants into the Police force in exchange for citizenship though I imagine that would be considered "courageous".
@SandyRentool, I think, made the useful observation this morning while the Conservatives did quite well in London (a tiny net gain of Councillors and unlucky not to have won four or five Councils), it wasn't so pretty outside the capital. Indeed, the London Conservative Councillors amounted for half the national total of Conservative seats.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
(I'm more of a Mr Buy-rite myself)
I would just say I have never been in a Waitrose though I do shop at M & S food
Look we can't all afford to simply shop in Fortnum and Masons, and (if pressed) Harrods.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
(I'm more of a Mr Buy-rite myself)
I would just say I have never been in a Waitrose though I do shop at M & S food
Look we can't all afford to simply shop in Fortnum and Masons, and (if pressed) Harrods.
Actually our weekly shop is delivered by Asda and M & S is mainly to buy British food including chicken and vegetables
To staunch the bleeding heart of @nico67 and others on here, I did some actual research on Indefinite Leave to Remain
Anyone who gets ILR is told lots of things, including this crucial paragraph:
"ILR is not the same as citizenship. While ILR grants permanent residence rights, it can be lost through extended absences from the UK (over 2 years) or serious criminal convictions. Only British citizenship provides truly permanent status that cannot be revoked under normal circumstances."
So they are made aware that it is contingent. That it CAN be revoked. There. Now that's settled, we can all calm down
Comes up depressingly often in my cases. Being blunt about it you have young men struggling with the language, who have no roots or connections here, who see young girls going around drunk not wearing very much and they think anything they do will be welcome. None of this excuses their behaviour which arises from the urgent physical need, a cultural incomprehension and being a long way from home. I struggle to blame these young men, even as I get them convicted. I have no hesitation blaming those who allowed them to be here.
Your last sentence needs a bit of expansion. Who allowed them to be here in the sense of how did they get here in the first place? Who allowed them to remain and what should they have done instead given the law of the right of refugees etc? Where should they be at this moment if not in the UK? How would anyone get them to that as yet unnamed place?
We give them rights to remain because they come from hell holes. And they do. But the rights are contingent on our obligation to give them shelter. Why? Why should our women and girls face these risks and suffer these consequences? Who asked them? The risks are taken not by those making the decisions, they are taken by those living very different lives. We do not pay nearly enough attention to the victims. It is unacceptable.
I entirely agree with you but neither my agreement nor your comments begin to address my questions!
it's been a long afternoon for those of us who want Arsenal to come top and West Ham to stay up. Compared with which coping with trivia like who is the next PM and when seems quite easy.
It has been pretty tense and I feel sorry for West Ham. But to try to answer your questions more directly:
As I have said our political class signed up and remains signed up to the UN Conventions on Refugees. These Conventions, and domestic legislation seeking to implement them, give rights to people arriving here, however they got here, from hell holes around the planet of which there are depressingly many. This is the case whether they actually arrive here from France or any other "safe" country that they may have travelled through. I know why these Conventions came into force. They came into force because many felt horrible guilt after WW2 that they had turned away Jewish refugees from Germany who ended in concentration camps. Never again was the belief.
But we live in a vastly more mobile world with even more hell holes than before. I think we need to be more selective. We need to say, for example, that we offer sanctuary to those from Hong Kong or Ukraine but not those from Somalia, Ethiopia, Libya or Syria. This needs to be our choice and our decision and it is a political decision not a legal one. Those from those countries need to be sent home. It is not our fault that they come from a hell hole. And when that message gets through perhaps they will stop coming.
Thank you. The general point has been around for ages. I first noticed it years ago from Matthew Parris - saying that there are so many hundreds of millions of people with a lawful claim if they can get here that the current customs of liberal democracies are not sustainable. and this is obviously right. Having said that, your suggestion will quickly turn into a fairly discriminatory one WRT culture and colour. Ukrainians and westernised Hong Hong - fine. The rest - no. UK would not be the only country doing that.
My own regrettable view is that there should be a common standard for all refugees globally. The rights of all refugees everywhere are only a tent in the desert, UN provided three meals a day and primary education and health care. With a free ticket home as and when wanted. Refugees in Chad and those who arrive here and other rich countries by boat should have identical rights.
No, I don't like it either. What I would most like is a UN capable of taking responsibility for civil governance of the countries from which people are legitimately fleeing, a sort of casus pacis in place of a casus belli restoring peace and justice and bringing them home.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
It has a V & A art gallery ( but then so does Stratford Newham as of last month!).
I went in it once (the V&A in Dundee) a few years ago and was surprised by how little..stuff...there was in it. Maybe it's better now though.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
(I'm more of a Mr Buy-rite myself)
I would just say I have never been in a Waitrose though I do shop at M & S food
Look we can't all afford to simply shop in Fortnum and Masons, and (if pressed) Harrods.
You’ve missed Selfridges out between that, the Waitrose in the basement of John Lewis and M&S Marble Arch you can eat half decently on Oxford Street
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
I think the Rwanda policy was simply mad and an astonishing waste of scarce resources but Sunak is right that one of the reasons the mainstream parties died on Thursday is because people get completely fed up of governments who simply can't solve a problem.
I think he is also right in saying that the problems governments have is the interventionist role played by our courts but he completely fails to recognise that it is politicians who have given the courts both the power and duty to do that.
The answer to me is much more fundamental. It is withdrawal from the Convention on Refugees and passing legislation that those who come here by boat without our permission will simply be ejected because they have no rights whatsoever. But our political class are simply not up for that kind of law. Its much easier to blame the courts for enforcing the laws they passed.
++++++++
Having now been to Rwanda - last week - I can say with some authority that: it would likely have worked, if enacted properly
Rwanda is actually a perfect choice for such a scheme, in the absence of a handy but bleak nearby island, as the Australians had
It is a long long long way away. It is locked up in central Africa. It is poor and in some places grim, you really don't want to live there. But it it also stable and safe, so you can humanely send people there, if all these people care about is being safe (and that is supposedly the situation with asylum seekers, unless of course they are fake and just looking for better benefits and economic opportunity)
I reckon HMG would have solved the boats overnight if they'd managed to get a few hundred people there, but done it intensely - ie shipping 90% of arrivals in one month. That would have terrified the boat people and the boats would have stopped
Exactly. And there we have it: Rwanda would have worked.
Sunak simply didn't have enough time to overcome all the legal obstacles and political resistance.
What do you mean 'have enough time' - he called an election a year early!
6 months early, and party discipline was breaking down.
But yes, I was annoyed by it. I thought he'd go for October 2024 or even January 2025.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
(I'm more of a Mr Buy-rite myself)
I would just say I have never been in a Waitrose though I do shop at M & S food
Look we can't all afford to simply shop in Fortnum and Masons, and (if pressed) Harrods.
Actually our weekly shop is delivered by Asda and M & S is mainly to buy British food including chicken and vegetables
Yeah but its fun to see you as an actual Big G ruling over the admiring folk of North Wales. And at least in my mind you're stuck with the role
Incidentally if a dragon turns up, then to my mind you're first in the armour with the sword.
In order to save his job, Starmer needs to remind people what endeared him to them during the election campaign by talking about his father the toolmaker.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
I don’t think I’ve been in an Asda for over a decade
In order to save his job, Starmer needs to remind people what endeared him to them during the election campaign by talking about his father the toolmaker.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
(I'm more of a Mr Buy-rite myself)
I would just say I have never been in a Waitrose though I do shop at M & S food
Waitrose is very similar to M&S Food just a bit bigger on average and with a wider range of products.
I reckon there are something like 20 different brands/styles of olive oil in our Waitrose - if that doesn't sell it to you you're probably not a LibDem target voter ;-)
I think Starmer is likely to cling on for a while, totally powerless and to be honest a rather sad spectacle for a British PM
If he was really thinking of labour, he would announce he has listened and will stand down once an organised process has been completed to appoint his successor
He would gain a lot of credit for doing the right thing, but will he ?
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
I don’t think I’ve been in an Asda for over a decade
Not sure what the point of Asda is. Cheaper at Lidl, better quality at Tesco for not much more.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
Excuse me. There are two huge Asdas in Brighton - I was in one of them today. And just one Waitrose, too distant from me. The vegetarian shoe shop is still going strong, though.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
I don’t think I’ve been in an Asda for over a decade
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
I don’t think I’ve been in an Asda for over a decade
I think Thursday was the latest time for me although I bought petrol there on Friday.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
I've never been in an Asda. There's never been one sufficiently close to where I've lived/worked.
I must say, I did laugh on the previous thread when I read that post by @Leon saying he was the first to start hating Starmer and spot his uselessness.
I was saying (repeatedly) that he'd be a disaster before the last General Election, and getting no credit for it, including from Leon.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
Excuse me. There are two huge Asdas in Brighton - I was in one of them today. And just one Waitrose, too distant from me. The vegetarian shoe shop is still going strong, though.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
I don’t think I’ve been in an Asda for over a decade
Not sure what the point of Asda is. Cheaper at Lidl, better quality at Tesco for not much more.
The quality at Tesco is pretty average, and its ready meals are horrid.
I must say, I did laugh on the previous thread when I read that post by @Leon saying he was the first to start hating Starmer and spot his uselessness.
I was saying (repeatedly) that he'd be a disaster before the last General Election, and getting no credit for it, including from Leon.
Who then voted for Labour.
Good god man. If you're reaching for the failings of our local comedy shop to bolster your ego then you're flailing indeed!
To staunch the bleeding heart of @nico67 and others on here, I did some actual research on Indefinite Leave to Remain
Anyone who gets ILR is told lots of things, including this crucial paragraph:
"ILR is not the same as citizenship. While ILR grants permanent residence rights, it can be lost through extended absences from the UK (over 2 years) or serious criminal convictions. Only British citizenship provides truly permanent status that cannot be revoked under normal circumstances."
So they are made aware that it is contingent. That it CAN be revoked. There. Now that's settled, we can all calm down
If I speed 120 miles down the M1, get caught, and banned from driving then I can't really have any complaints. If the DVLA send me a letter telling me I'm getting banned because they simply want less drivers on the road, then I'm going to the solicitors.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
I don’t think I’ve been in an Asda for over a decade
Not sure what the point of Asda is. Cheaper at Lidl, better quality at Tesco for not much more.
We buy our basics and it is delivered every week and we have done for years
I rarely go in the Asda but also I have mobility issues even with a shopping trolley as an aid, so the system works for us
M & S food is smaller and I am buying specific food from them, and I have my blue badge and going in early I am able to park adjacent to the store
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
(I'm more of a Mr Buy-rite myself)
I would just say I have never been in a Waitrose though I do shop at M & S food
Waitrose is very similar to M&S Food just a bit bigger on average and with a wider range of products.
I reckon there are something like 20 different brands/styles of olive oil in our Waitrose - if that doesn't sell it to you you're probably not a LibDem target voter ;-)
Some customers, I am one, probably mostly men, really like limited but well selected choice. Lidl was great in the jurassic age of not long ago. I remember when it sold exactly two versions of r and g coffee, both OK, but it has declined into multiplying choices while bringing prices much closer to its rivals. There are six or eight olive oils now. Should be 2 at most IMHO.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
(I'm more of a Mr Buy-rite myself)
I would just say I have never been in a Waitrose though I do shop at M & S food
Waitrose is very similar to M&S Food just a bit bigger on average and with a wider range of products.
I reckon there are something like 20 different brands/styles of olive oil in our Waitrose - if that doesn't sell it to you you're probably not a LibDem target voter ;-)
I am reliably informed that Clive Lewis will resign his seat to allow Andy Burnham a return to Westminster. The MP for Norwich spoke with Burnham this evening, following Angela Rayner’s statement. It remains unclear whether the Manchester Mayor would wish to stand in Norwich. Further updates on this are expected over the course of the week
I am reliably informed that Clive Lewis will resign his seat to allow Andy Burnham a return to Westminster. The MP for Norwich spoke with Burnham this evening, following Angela Rayner’s statement. It remains unclear whether the Manchester Mayor would wish to stand in Norwich. Further updates on this are expected over the course of the week
And Burnham will not run there. Absolutely nailed on Green.
I must say, I did laugh on the previous thread when I read that post by @Leon saying he was the first to start hating Starmer and spot his uselessness.
I was saying (repeatedly) that he'd be a disaster before the last General Election, and getting no credit for it, including from Leon.
My unscientific weekend poll of Labour MPs and government ministers is that Keir Starmer will be replaced as their leader and the country’s prime minister “by the end of the year”.
They also say that an immediate defenestration and snap leadership election should be avoided if possible, for two reasons.
First, the party needs to have a debate about its future direction and what could be a “big story of hope for Britain” they could coalesce around and sell to voters
Second, the leadership change should be orderly, respectful and likely to yield a stable outcome.
This means, they say, that the process needs to be long enough to allow Andy Burnham the opportunity to resign as mayor of Greater Manchester and contest a by-election.
Which is not to say they all want Burnham as Britain’s next prime minister. Some do. Some don’t.
What it means is they fear he and his supporters would never cease to lobby to be Labour leader, and therefore no new leader would be secure, unless Burnham was given the opportunity to win a leadership contest or crash and burn.
“If Andy feels he is blocked again, any new leader will be toast before the next election,” one senior MP said to me.
And to give Burnham the rope he wants, the leadership contest has to be delayed till the autumn, say his friends and foes.
Starmer is toast. And not interesting char-grilled sourdough toast either but boring, pale, flabby, leathery, Mother's Pride-style, cheap hotel toast.
Sadly, all the potential Labour candidates seem deeply flawed, as do the current leaders of every other political party.
Where will we find a leader who can turn things round for the UK? I have no idea. I can only hope there is a left-field (but probably not left-wing candidate I am not yet aware of in one of the parties who is miraculously going to win the mandate and save the country.
If anyone knows of one please let know. Failing that can someone make the call to King Arthur and tell him he is needed back to restore the nation to its former glory?
I am reliably informed that Clive Lewis will resign his seat to allow Andy Burnham a return to Westminster. The MP for Norwich spoke with Burnham this evening, following Angela Rayner’s statement. It remains unclear whether the Manchester Mayor would wish to stand in Norwich. Further updates on this are expected over the course of the week
I am reliably informed that Clive Lewis will resign his seat to allow Andy Burnham a return to Westminster. The MP for Norwich spoke with Burnham this evening, following Angela Rayner’s statement. It remains unclear whether the Manchester Mayor would wish to stand in Norwich. Further updates on this are expected over the course of the week
It's worth nothing. Burnham has no connection to Norwich, and he'd know he'd probably be easily beaten by the Greens in a by-election there.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
Yeah but you smack of Waitrose - a smooth delivery, a quality product. Bastard, bastard Waitrose Man!
(I'm more of a Mr Buy-rite myself)
I would just say I have never been in a Waitrose though I do shop at M & S food
Waitrose is very similar to M&S Food just a bit bigger on average and with a wider range of products.
I reckon there are something like 20 different brands/styles of olive oil in our Waitrose - if that doesn't sell it to you you're probably not a LibDem target voter ;-)
In order to save his job, Starmer needs to remind people what endeared him to them during the election campaign by talking about his father the toolmaker.
My unscientific weekend poll of Labour MPs and government ministers is that Keir Starmer will be replaced as their leader and the country’s prime minister “by the end of the year”.
They also say that an immediate defenestration and snap leadership election should be avoided if possible, for two reasons.
First, the party needs to have a debate about its future direction and what could be a “big story of hope for Britain” they could coalesce around and sell to voters
Second, the leadership change should be orderly, respectful and likely to yield a stable outcome.
This means, they say, that the process needs to be long enough to allow Andy Burnham the opportunity to resign as mayor of Greater Manchester and contest a by-election.
Which is not to say they all want Burnham as Britain’s next prime minister. Some do. Some don’t.
What it means is they fear he and his supporters would never cease to lobby to be Labour leader, and therefore no new leader would be secure, unless Burnham was given the opportunity to win a leadership contest or crash and burn.
“If Andy feels he is blocked again, any new leader will be toast before the next election,” one senior MP said to me.
And to give Burnham the rope he wants, the leadership contest has to be delayed till the autumn, say his friends and foes.
He's such a desperate twat.
To be honest has anyone in the Burnham camp even began to think of the optics of this charade to the general public ?
I must say, I did laugh on the previous thread when I read that post by @Leon saying he was the first to start hating Starmer and spot his uselessness.
I was saying (repeatedly) that he'd be a disaster before the last General Election, and getting no credit for it, including from Leon.
Who then voted for Labour.
Good god man. If you're reaching for the failings of our local comedy shop to bolster your ego then you're flailing indeed!
Be fair, we all know @Leon is an utter tit but it deserves mentioning from time to time.
I am reliably informed that Clive Lewis will resign his seat to allow Andy Burnham a return to Westminster. The MP for Norwich spoke with Burnham this evening, following Angela Rayner’s statement. It remains unclear whether the Manchester Mayor would wish to stand in Norwich. Further updates on this are expected over the course of the week
It boggles my mind that constituents would actually vote for anyone who's been parachuted in for a by-election caused deliberately to get them into parliament. All that expense to get them an MP who has no interest in the constituency and who's hoping that it won't be his major concern anyway. I'd be in the anyone-but camp.
I must say, I did laugh on the previous thread when I read that post by @Leon saying he was the first to start hating Starmer and spot his uselessness.
I was saying (repeatedly) that he'd be a disaster before the last General Election, and getting no credit for it, including from Leon.
Who then voted for Labour.
If this posts gets 20 likes then I will change Leon's username to Leon_Voted_For_Starmer
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
I've never been in an Asda. There's never been one sufficiently close to where I've lived/worked.
"I'm still not sure it answers the question of why immigrants should be less able to access the opportunities that exist in the UK than people born here."
Because what your questions in your post utterly ignore are that a nation is a home and that people in that home are entitled to decide who joins their family. You talk about dehumanising immigrants but your post dehumanises those already living here by denying them any agency at all in who is allowed to join them - and in what numbers. You assume that if a migrant wants to come here (and your post confuses migrants and asylum seekers) that is the only factor: he or she wants, he or she has some gumption so he or she gets.
But what about people born and living here? Do they not get a say?
I am not a Reform supporter so cannot speak for them.
But people in a country should have agency over who is permitted to join them because the country is their home and homes are not open to anyone, regardless of who they are or what they bring, to anyone who demands entry.
That sense of home, of "this is us, this is who we are", of a social contract, of burden sharing, of mutual obligations, of trust, of control are essential to any well-functioning society, any group - frankly - including a school - which you should understand - and certainly a nation. Mass immigration with little control and with a sense of contempt for those feeling that their home has been changed without their consent and in ways they don't like breaks that down and fractures society. That is I think at the root of why people who feel this turn to Reform in the absence of other more established parties paying any attention to their concerns.
@AnthonyT thanks for the reply. The content of your post makes me think you are misunderstanding my position, but reading my own post I can see why - I was trying to write about both asylum seekers and economic migrants without sufficiently distinguishing the two.
I agree that home, culture and the social contract is important. As I hope I made clear, I have huge sympathy for those who are bearing the brunt of economic migration (a previous girlfriend's grandparents lived on a street in Peterborough that experienced enormous culture change in a short space of time that massively disrupted their sense of place and of home, about which they were powerless. Watching it happen was quite a formative experience for me).
I am reluctantly supportive of the main thrust of my original post - that, despite being one of the wealthiest countries on earth, we seem not to be able to afford to provide adequately for our own citizens, nor for migrants. I lament this but I don't deny it. I do not assume that if a migrant wants to come here they should be allowed to. I can entirely understand why in practice we need to restrict inward migration. I agree the scale of migration in the last few years was a mistake, especially after a decade or more of austerity.
I am interested in the justification for refusing entry to a migrant, or an asylum seeker, though. (I realise even now I may be being very unclear, apologies).
As an aside I don't believe the nation or country has the role you are claiming for it. Communities and smaller groups do. We drape ourselves in flags to try to pretend the country (or at least the state) is home, but for most people home is the community around them. I think Reform are selling a nonsense to communities in Peterborough and elsewhere that by making the nation or the state 'home', their lives will improve. There remains huge inequality within our country and I do not believe Reform will address this, in fact I think the opposite will happen.
But the central thrust of my disagreement with you is that someone who happens to have been born in UK or has citizenship somehow 'deserves' to have the power to create the sort of home you write of, whereas someone born in a poorer part of the world does not. I am not arguing that the former doesn't deserve this power. I think they do. I just think migrants of whatever form also do.
Your rejection of the role nation state isn't borne out by history. If you look at the peoples that have been enslaved, from the Balkans to the West African tribes, it happened when people had no nation state to protect them.
@maxh I would argue that the nation/state does have that role (of being home to the people who have historic or other roots in that place). The nation/state makes no bones about calling upon those people to defend its territory when threatened.
And I would happily defend the UK's territory (at least if I were young enough to be asked). I'd want to see my kids do the same if they were old enough.
But my point is that it is people's feelings of the breakdown of the social contract or the lack of a 'home' are in my view much more local: is their street safe? Do they bump into people on it with whom they have a shared cultural reference? Are those people speaking English? Is their estate/suburb etc safe? Is their local familiar? Do the buses work? Can they get a GP appointment? Is their local school decent?
My conjecture is that this is where home is made. The nation or state is more impersonal, notwithstanding the World Cup and similar.
Fair enough, but you must accept that you are unusual
I reckon 90% of Brits born here very much regard it as home, and I hope a large chunk of Brits born overseas feel the same. It is our island, we shall defend it. White cliffs, green fields, Scottish glens, Cornish coves. London to Belfast, Edinburgh to Harlech, Dorset to Stornoway. What's more, anyone of "Anglo-Celtic ancestry" (most of the country?) is very likely to have genetic roots in the British Isles going back thousands of years
I moan about Britain endlessly, especially the weather and the politics, but it is home. It is where my father's bones are buried. It is where his father's bones are buried. And his father before him. And his father before him. Back before the first moment of recorded time
I think it's a mix -- I think of the UK as home, but my perception of what "home* is and how my home is doing is strongly shaped by what I see and experience every day in the local area around me. As it gets further away and for places I haven't been it gets a bit more abstract --:if I go to Cornwall or Manchester or York I feel familiarity and at home there: these places are not so distant and not greatly different from where I live in the south of England . Edinburgh, also, but so far away it gets a bit more tenuous. And Belfast I have no emotional connection with at all -- considering whether it should stay in the UK or become part of Ireland I have no instinctive or emotional take: it's as abstract to me as whether Quebec should secede from Canada or not.
Go to Belfast. It is definitely part of Britain, and yet ALSO part of Ireland, at the same time
In some ways it is the most British place in Britain. It's also brilliant, as is the whole of Northern Ireland. Under-rated and very very beautiful. And great oysters, shared with Ireland, on Carlingford Lough
"I'm still not sure it answers the question of why immigrants should be less able to access the opportunities that exist in the UK than people born here."
Because what your questions in your post utterly ignore are that a nation is a home and that people in that home are entitled to decide who joins their family. You talk about dehumanising immigrants but your post dehumanises those already living here by denying them any agency at all in who is allowed to join them - and in what numbers. You assume that if a migrant wants to come here (and your post confuses migrants and asylum seekers) that is the only factor: he or she wants, he or she has some gumption so he or she gets.
But what about people born and living here? Do they not get a say?
I am not a Reform supporter so cannot speak for them.
But people in a country should have agency over who is permitted to join them because the country is their home and homes are not open to anyone, regardless of who they are or what they bring, to anyone who demands entry.
That sense of home, of "this is us, this is who we are", of a social contract, of burden sharing, of mutual obligations, of trust, of control are essential to any well-functioning society, any group - frankly - including a school - which you should understand - and certainly a nation. Mass immigration with little control and with a sense of contempt for those feeling that their home has been changed without their consent and in ways they don't like breaks that down and fractures society. That is I think at the root of why people who feel this turn to Reform in the absence of other more established parties paying any attention to their concerns.
@AnthonyT thanks for the reply. The content of your post makes me think you are misunderstanding my position, but reading my own post I can see why - I was trying to write about both asylum seekers and economic migrants without sufficiently distinguishing the two.
I agree that home, culture and the social contract is important. As I hope I made clear, I have huge sympathy for those who are bearing the brunt of economic migration (a previous girlfriend's grandparents lived on a street in Peterborough that experienced enormous culture change in a short space of time that massively disrupted their sense of place and of home, about which they were powerless. Watching it happen was quite a formative experience for me).
I am reluctantly supportive of the main thrust of my original post - that, despite being one of the wealthiest countries on earth, we seem not to be able to afford to provide adequately for our own citizens, nor for migrants. I lament this but I don't deny it. I do not assume that if a migrant wants to come here they should be allowed to. I can entirely understand why in practice we need to restrict inward migration. I agree the scale of migration in the last few years was a mistake, especially after a decade or more of austerity.
I am interested in the justification for refusing entry to a migrant, or an asylum seeker, though. (I realise even now I may be being very unclear, apologies).
As an aside I don't believe the nation or country has the role you are claiming for it. Communities and smaller groups do. We drape ourselves in flags to try to pretend the country (or at least the state) is home, but for most people home is the community around them. I think Reform are selling a nonsense to communities in Peterborough and elsewhere that by making the nation or the state 'home', their lives will improve. There remains huge inequality within our country and I do not believe Reform will address this, in fact I think the opposite will happen.
But the central thrust of my disagreement with you is that someone who happens to have been born in UK or has citizenship somehow 'deserves' to have the power to create the sort of home you write of, whereas someone born in a poorer part of the world does not. I am not arguing that the former doesn't deserve this power. I think they do. I just think migrants of whatever form also do.
Your rejection of the role nation state isn't borne out by history. If you look at the peoples that have been enslaved, from the Balkans to the West African tribes, it happened when people had no nation state to protect them.
@maxh I would argue that the nation/state does have that role (of being home to the people who have historic or other roots in that place). The nation/state makes no bones about calling upon those people to defend its territory when threatened.
And I would happily defend the UK's territory (at least if I were young enough to be asked). I'd want to see my kids do the same if they were old enough.
But my point is that it is people's feelings of the breakdown of the social contract or the lack of a 'home' are in my view much more local: is their street safe? Do they bump into people on it with whom they have a shared cultural reference? Are those people speaking English? Is their estate/suburb etc safe? Is their local familiar? Do the buses work? Can they get a GP appointment? Is their local school decent?
My conjecture is that this is where home is made. The nation or state is more impersonal, notwithstanding the World Cup and similar.
Fair enough, but you must accept that you are unusual
I reckon 90% of Brits born here very much regard it as home, and I hope a large chunk of Brits born overseas feel the same. It is our island, we shall defend it. White cliffs, green fields, Scottish glens, Cornish coves. London to Belfast, Edinburgh to Harlech, Dorset to Stornoway. What's more, anyone of "Anglo-Celtic ancestry" (most of the country?) is very likely to have genetic roots in the British Isles going back thousands of years
I moan about Britain endlessly, especially the weather and the politics, but it is home. It is where my father's bones are buried. It is where his father's bones are buried. And his father before him. And his father before him. Back before the first moment of recorded time
A perfectly nice feeling to have. But I don't want the country I call home (which happens to be the same one) to be a place where it matters one iota, as regards whether a person is deemed to belong here, where the bones of their ancestors are buried.
It should matter, and it does matter, but it is not everything, and should not be everything
Someone whose family has lived in Britain for several thousand years IS different, in a material way, in their Britishness, compared to someone who arrived 5 years ago aged 40 and just got citizenship
This is human nature. We feel the same way about our actual homes and families
My unscientific weekend poll of Labour MPs and government ministers is that Keir Starmer will be replaced as their leader and the country’s prime minister “by the end of the year”.
They also say that an immediate defenestration and snap leadership election should be avoided if possible, for two reasons.
First, the party needs to have a debate about its future direction and what could be a “big story of hope for Britain” they could coalesce around and sell to voters
Second, the leadership change should be orderly, respectful and likely to yield a stable outcome.
This means, they say, that the process needs to be long enough to allow Andy Burnham the opportunity to resign as mayor of Greater Manchester and contest a by-election.
Which is not to say they all want Burnham as Britain’s next prime minister. Some do. Some don’t.
What it means is they fear he and his supporters would never cease to lobby to be Labour leader, and therefore no new leader would be secure, unless Burnham was given the opportunity to win a leadership contest or crash and burn.
“If Andy feels he is blocked again, any new leader will be toast before the next election,” one senior MP said to me.
And to give Burnham the rope he wants, the leadership contest has to be delayed till the autumn, say his friends and foes.
He's such a desperate twat.
To be honest has anyone in the Burnham camp even began to think of the optics of this charade to the general public ?
My unscientific weekend poll of Labour MPs and government ministers is that Keir Starmer will be replaced as their leader and the country’s prime minister “by the end of the year”.
They also say that an immediate defenestration and snap leadership election should be avoided if possible, for two reasons.
First, the party needs to have a debate about its future direction and what could be a “big story of hope for Britain” they could coalesce around and sell to voters
Second, the leadership change should be orderly, respectful and likely to yield a stable outcome.
This means, they say, that the process needs to be long enough to allow Andy Burnham the opportunity to resign as mayor of Greater Manchester and contest a by-election.
Which is not to say they all want Burnham as Britain’s next prime minister. Some do. Some don’t.
What it means is they fear he and his supporters would never cease to lobby to be Labour leader, and therefore no new leader would be secure, unless Burnham was given the opportunity to win a leadership contest or crash and burn.
“If Andy feels he is blocked again, any new leader will be toast before the next election,” one senior MP said to me.
And to give Burnham the rope he wants, the leadership contest has to be delayed till the autumn, say his friends and foes.
He's such a desperate twat.
To be honest has anyone in the Burnham camp even began to think of the optics of this charade to the general public ?
You know there is nothing the British public like more than sticking two fingers up to those in authority. The political equivalent of Boaty McBoatface will be rubbing his or her hands with glee.
Sensible Tories need to start preparing for a coalition
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
I would frankly rather that they went into coalition with Labour, as the CDU/CSU did with the SPD in preference to going into any kind of deal with the AfD. The prospects of any party having a majority or control after the next Westminster election are indeed slight but that is no reason to invite the likes of Farage and Jenrick into the house.
1. Adorable that you think the Tories will be the ones doing the inviting. 2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
1. Fair point. 2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
OTOH there are people in Brighton who haven’t been in an Asda for over a decade.
I don’t think I’ve been in an Asda for over a decade
Not sure what the point of Asda is. Cheaper at Lidl, better quality at Tesco for not much more.
The quality at Tesco is pretty average, and its ready meals are horrid.
My unscientific weekend poll of Labour MPs and government ministers is that Keir Starmer will be replaced as their leader and the country’s prime minister “by the end of the year”.
They also say that an immediate defenestration and snap leadership election should be avoided if possible, for two reasons.
First, the party needs to have a debate about its future direction and what could be a “big story of hope for Britain” they could coalesce around and sell to voters
Second, the leadership change should be orderly, respectful and likely to yield a stable outcome.
This means, they say, that the process needs to be long enough to allow Andy Burnham the opportunity to resign as mayor of Greater Manchester and contest a by-election.
Which is not to say they all want Burnham as Britain’s next prime minister. Some do. Some don’t.
What it means is they fear he and his supporters would never cease to lobby to be Labour leader, and therefore no new leader would be secure, unless Burnham was given the opportunity to win a leadership contest or crash and burn.
“If Andy feels he is blocked again, any new leader will be toast before the next election,” one senior MP said to me.
And to give Burnham the rope he wants, the leadership contest has to be delayed till the autumn, say his friends and foes.
He's such a desperate twat.
To be honest has anyone in the Burnham camp even began to think of the optics of this charade to the general public ?
You know there is nothing the British public like more than sticking two fingers up to those in authority. The political equivalent of Boaty McBoatface will be rubbing his or her hands with glee.
Didn't Boaty McBoatface split the Count Binface constituency vote?
Yeah, I'm going to give betting on the midterms a miss.
Trump says Republicans will deploy an “Election Integrity Army” in every state for the midterms “to preserve the sanctity of each legal vote,” adding it will be “much bigger and stronger” than in 2024
There's a great gulf between your judgement and that of Clive Lewis. Obviously you're a bit of a fool, but Lewis is in a Mordor like abyss intellectually.
Comments
The rape of a schoolgirl by an Albanian who was appealing his right to asylum.
The rape of a young woman by someone who was claiming to be a French citizen who had rights to remain under the Brexit deal but was in fact Libyan.
Several cases of people who had no rights to be here at all who were operating cannabis farms.
The rape of a woman in relationship with a Nigerian who had been granted ILR in what was a very abusive relationship.
Multiple rapes and abuse by 2 different Polish citizens claiming the right to be here under the Brexit deal.
This is obviously anecdotal and other prosecutors may well have different experience but it would be absurd not to acknowledge the additional risks for women and girls resident in this country from those who really should not be in this country. We are just not taking this seriously enough.
And Burnham in a by-election should be, like Eminem says, one shot, one opportunity. So, like a snail, he's got to formulate a decent plot, else he's gone.
That risk should not be run - either by not allowing men from cultures where the risk of bad behaviour is greater to come here or by securely detaining them until their position has been regularised. And if they do commit such assaults then they should automatically be deported and any asylum or other claim stopped. A country has no obligation to provide a better life to criminals or those who do not behave with the minimum standards of civilised behaviour. Nor should we accept some of the feeble excuses the courts have been accepting from those convicted of such behaviour.
That would have been a courageous move.
These local election results should end Conservative delusions of a party revival
This bizarre narrative persists in Tory world: “Kemi Badenoch is leading a revival of the party”. This inexplicably developed when the party’s national opinion poll ratings remained sub-20 points. It persists even after these elections, where they lost more than 500 council seats in England, saw their Welsh Senedd seats drop by 22 to 7, and their Scottish Parliament seats drop by 19 to 12.
Tories push this message after losing control of councils in their heartlands of Essex and Suffolk, amongst half a dozen council losses. They push it even as they failed to re-take Wandsworth. All on the basis of what? The fact they regained control of their flagship Westminster council and held middle-class councils in the prosperous South? This is a strange measure of success.
Reform, meanwhile, secured nearly 1,500 council seats across England – many of them at the direct expense of the Conservative Party. Reform’s performance wasn’t that of an irritating challenger party like Ukip used to be, but of a party heading for Downing Street.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/10/sensible-tories-need-to-start-preparing-for-a-coalition/
It's hard to think of anything other than just putting up taxes even more and handing out even more in benefits.
The Government has already done that - so what basis is there for thinking it would be popular just doing it to an even greater degree?
It’s getting rather unseemly now Jacob, this endless whimpering and begging.
NO DEALS WITH THE TORIES.
You lot can go down with the ship that you made for yourselves by betraying the country.
2. I see this as simple posturing Waitrose snobbery.
But Badenoch's Tories I feel have something to say to the country that is different to what I've heard before. There are some ideas and some energy that I felt disappeared basically as soon as May took over. I feel like for the first time in a long time, they'd probably be interested in hearing from 25-45 types rather than pensioners.
I'm not saying it's a big coalition of voters they are swimming in - but I think they can generate a new and unique set who think Reform are too extreme, but Labour is hopeless. Immigration is not a high concern of mine, but I do think it is too high and so I want it controlled. I want planning reform. I want young people to be able to buy a house. I want people to feel safe on the streets. I think Britain in places is broken but I don't think it is beyond repair. I walk out into London, and I don't see a broken city - this is what I want for the rest of the UK.
Badenoch's Tories are in my view, speaking to that. And whilst they may not be successful, they are in my view the first party to try and look at a new group of people who might vote for them in the future.
So, in a way the Tories are operating in a space more like one I would be happy with anyway.
2. There is no Waitrose in Dundee. I haven't been in a Waitrose for over a decade.
🇦🇺 NEW: One Nation has won the Farrer by-election, gaining a seat held by the Liberal-National Coalition for almost 80 years
Votes counted: 84.9%
Primary Vote:
🟠 One Nation: 39.4% (+32.9)
⚪️ Independent: 28.4% (+8.4)
🔵 Liberal: 12.4% (-31.0)
🟢 National: 9.7% (New)
Two-Candidate-Preferred:
🟠 One Nation: 57.4% ✅
⚪️ Independent: 42.6%
One Nation GAIN from Liberal
(I'm more of a Mr Buy-rite myself)
Apart from finding a winning seat, why would the constituents accept being used ?
The whole idea is surreal and will have serious problems for labour and the country, not least with the bond markets
Here's another example - we've had the usual bleating in my part of the world from the Conservative Mayoral candidate in Newham about policing. Now, ignoring the fact operational Police stations were sold off by the Conservative Mayor and beat officers were replaced by van patrols by a Conservative Home Secretary, the constant clamour for "more Police" neglects the unfortunate truth no one wants to be a police officer. It's not there are numbers of officers sitting idle, there are no officers.
I suppose she could argue for recruiting migrants into the Police force in exchange for citizenship though I imagine that would be considered "courageous".
@SandyRentool, I think, made the useful observation this morning while the Conservatives did quite well in London (a tiny net gain of Councillors and unlucky not to have won four or five Councils), it wasn't so pretty outside the capital. Indeed, the London Conservative Councillors amounted for half the national total of Conservative seats.
No, I voted LibDem on Thursday.
My own regrettable view is that there should be a common standard for all refugees globally. The rights of all refugees everywhere are only a tent in the desert, UN provided three meals a day and primary education and health care. With a free ticket home as and when wanted. Refugees in Chad and those who arrive here and other rich countries by boat should have identical rights.
No, I don't like it either. What I would most like is a UN capable of taking responsibility for civil governance of the countries from which people are legitimately fleeing, a sort of casus pacis in place of a casus belli restoring peace and justice and bringing them home.
But yes, I was annoyed by it. I thought he'd go for October 2024 or even January 2025.
Incidentally if a dragon turns up, then to my mind you're first in the armour with the sword.
I reckon there are something like 20 different brands/styles of olive oil in our Waitrose - if that doesn't sell it to you you're probably not a LibDem target voter ;-)
If he was really thinking of labour, he would announce he has listened and will stand down once an organised process has been completed to appoint his successor
He would gain a lot of credit for doing the right thing, but will he ?
The vegetarian shoe shop is still going strong, though.
I was saying (repeatedly) that he'd be a disaster before the last General Election, and getting no credit for it, including from Leon.
Who then voted for Labour.
Morrisons knocks it into a cocked hat.
*fewer*
I rarely go in the Asda but also I have mobility issues even with a shopping trolley as an aid, so the system works for us
M & S food is smaller and I am buying specific food from them, and I have my blue badge and going in early I am able to park adjacent to the store
Our local Waitrose is full of Tories.
https://x.com/charliesimpsona/status/2053546783104524356
I am reliably informed that Clive Lewis will resign his seat to allow Andy Burnham a return to Westminster. The MP for Norwich spoke with Burnham this evening, following Angela Rayner’s statement. It remains unclear whether the Manchester Mayor would wish to stand in Norwich. Further updates on this are expected over the course of the week
Sadly, all the potential Labour candidates seem deeply flawed, as do the current leaders of every other political party.
Where will we find a leader who can turn things round for the UK? I have no idea. I can only hope there is a left-field (but probably not left-wing candidate I am not yet aware of in one of the parties who is miraculously going to win the mandate and save the country.
If anyone knows of one please let know. Failing that can someone make the call to King Arthur and tell him he is needed back to restore the nation to its former glory?
Easy Green Gain.
I am more of a Fortnum & Mason chap.
In some ways it is the most British place in Britain. It's also brilliant, as is the whole of Northern Ireland. Under-rated and very very beautiful. And great oysters, shared with Ireland, on Carlingford Lough
114 grounds of which 92 were first time visits
It was a cracker Womens FA Cup SF Liverpool vs Brighton 2-3 away team coming back from 2 down.
Entrance price for Over 65s a bargain £4
https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/11/20/clive-lewis-once-called-wes-streeting-a-jumped-up-turd/
Someone whose family has lived in Britain for several thousand years IS different, in a material way, in their Britishness, compared to someone who arrived 5 years ago aged 40 and just got citizenship
This is human nature. We feel the same way about our actual homes and families
It's the boozy, demented futility (© Boris Johnson) of the late Major years. OK, I don't know whether they're drunk or not. In a way, it would be more understandable if they were.
(But yes, Tescos ready meals are poor.)
Trump says Republicans will deploy an “Election Integrity Army” in every state for the midterms “to preserve the sanctity of each legal vote,” adding it will be “much bigger and stronger” than in 2024
What could possibly go wrong?
https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/2053555939664441493