That's going a bit far, but a manifesto commitment to hold a referendum on rejoining the EU would work, although the lesson from what happened after 2016 is that terms of accession would have to be negotiated and precisely defined in advance of the vote. It might even appeal to Reform voters - one clause could be to return to the pre 2019 status quo on automatically returning unsuccessful asylum seekers to the EU border they came across, which would stop the boats just as effectively as it did when it was in place.
Here's someone who might be willing to write it into the manifesto. Expelled as a shadow frontbencher by Corbyn by voting in favour of the single market.
No chance Streeting wins northern Reform voters back. He’s just a smarmy southern boy
You have a point.
The disaffected urbanites in London, etc., will very rapidly return to Labour if they think Farage could win. No way does Zack retain them in the face of that existential threat.
The WWC is a very different proposition. They require someone who understands them and promises radical change, something completely beyond Starmer. It's pretty obvious that The King of the North, with his insurgent appeal, is the only person Labour has who has a hope. The fact that he isn't an MP and the establishment is trying to stop him only burnishes his appeal.
For Labour it's Burnham or Bust. (And I'm not a fan)
How dare she be brave enough to actually make public that there should be a challenge, and shame all those organising secretly by pointing out they need to come forward openly if they want the job?
It probably was a provocative comment. That was probably the point - sometimes people need provoking in order to act.
A chunk of Hodges from the Mail, referenced above:
The identity of the constituency is currently a tightly guarded secret. But Burnham’s team are completely confident he will be able to carry it in a subsequent by-election.
‘We’re not idiots,’ one ally explained. ‘We’re not just going to throw him out there. We’ve been conducting our own private polling and we’ve been crunching the national and local polls. He’ll win.’
After months of speculation the strategy that is designed to secure Keir Starmer’s removal from Downing Street has finally been revealed. Within the next seven days Burnham will announce his intention to stand again for Westminster, and the seat that will be the vehicle.
Soon after a raft of members of the Parliamentary Labour Party will publicly call on Keir Starmer to confirm he will not prevent Burnham from standing, or delay the contest. If Starmer agrees, then the immediate challenge to his leadership will be temporarily parked. If he refuses, a delegation of members of the Cabinet will go to him and privately tell him he needs to reverse his decision. If he refuses, then they will seek to remove him from office.
Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson Shadow Housing Secretary James Cleverly Reform UK's Business Spokesperson Richard Tice Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iowerth Labour MP Catherine West
That's going a bit far, but a manifesto commitment to hold a referendum on rejoining the EU would work, although the lesson from what happened after 2016 is that terms of accession would have to be negotiated and precisely defined in advance of the vote. It might even appeal to Reform voters - one clause could be to return to the pre 2019 status quo on automatically returning unsuccessful asylum seekers to the EU border they came across, which would stop the boats just as effectively as it did when it was in place.
Here's someone who might be willing to write it into the manifesto. Expelled as a shadow frontbencher by Corbyn by voting in favour of the single market.
Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson Shadow Housing Secretary James Cleverly Reform UK's Business Spokesperson Richard Tice Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iowerth Labour MP Catherine West
Who could blame anyone for looking at this front bench/cabinet and thinking Even I could do better than that?
Half the posters here could do a better job.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
It would be immensely funny if Catherine West accidentally ended up PM. And all the carefully manoeuvring by the rest ends up for nought.
You’d need a heart of stone not to laugh.
I for one reckon she'll deserve it.
She'll deserve a Cabinet post in the Government of whoever succeeds Starmer.
Balls of steel.
If she sticks to her guns, she'll have a more positive favourability rating than Burnham.
She comes across quite well in this interview from 2015. If she puts in a good performance on TV tomorrow, maybe she’ll get enough momentum to become a serious contender.
Who could blame anyone for looking at this front bench/cabinet and thinking Even I could do better than that?
Half the posters here could do a better job.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
Admitted culpability, fixed the problem.
I'm equally happy with here's a problem - we are working on a fix..
As that's better than leaving a problem in place, depending on the seriousness of the problem of course.
After Thursday, there isn't a seat he could win with any certainty to make it worth the bother or his supporters.
Still, he can pick up the pieces after the election that Starmer's successor contrives to lose.
If there are any meaningful pieces to pick up.
It isn’t simple as that. If he can win a byelection against the tide then he is worth the hype. If he can’t, then he isn’t. It could not be more perfect for him IF he has the balls to go for it
A chunk of Hodges from the Mail, referenced above:
The identity of the constituency is currently a tightly guarded secret. But Burnham’s team are completely confident he will be able to carry it in a subsequent by-election.
‘We’re not idiots,’ one ally explained. ‘We’re not just going to throw him out there. We’ve been conducting our own private polling and we’ve been crunching the national and local polls. He’ll win.’
After months of speculation the strategy that is designed to secure Keir Starmer’s removal from Downing Street has finally been revealed. Within the next seven days Burnham will announce his intention to stand again for Westminster, and the seat that will be the vehicle.
Soon after a raft of members of the Parliamentary Labour Party will publicly call on Keir Starmer to confirm he will not prevent Burnham from standing, or delay the contest. If Starmer agrees, then the immediate challenge to his leadership will be temporarily parked. If he refuses, a delegation of members of the Cabinet will go to him and privately tell him he needs to reverse his decision. If he refuses, then they will seek to remove him from office.
Make of it what you will.
I make that the reason why Catherine West is moving tonight...
A chunk of Hodges from the Mail, referenced above:
The identity of the constituency is currently a tightly guarded secret. But Burnham’s team are completely confident he will be able to carry it in a subsequent by-election.
‘We’re not idiots,’ one ally explained. ‘We’re not just going to throw him out there. We’ve been conducting our own private polling and we’ve been crunching the national and local polls. He’ll win.’
After months of speculation the strategy that is designed to secure Keir Starmer’s removal from Downing Street has finally been revealed. Within the next seven days Burnham will announce his intention to stand again for Westminster, and the seat that will be the vehicle.
Soon after a raft of members of the Parliamentary Labour Party will publicly call on Keir Starmer to confirm he will not prevent Burnham from standing, or delay the contest. If Starmer agrees, then the immediate challenge to his leadership will be temporarily parked. If he refuses, a delegation of members of the Cabinet will go to him and privately tell him he needs to reverse his decision. If he refuses, then they will seek to remove him from office.
Labour need someone who can seize both the zeitgeist and the initiative, i.e. a true leader, not someone who can simply wait for the tide to turn (if it ever does).
Burnham, if he goes for it, could be that guy. “I fought the Labour establishment and won” is a good starting point in the current situation. He’s already has a good reputation, which again helps.
West could be that guy also. She had the balls to go over the top first. I guess we’ll see.
That's going a bit far, but a manifesto commitment to hold a referendum on rejoining the EU would work, although the lesson from what happened after 2016 is that terms of accession would have to be negotiated and precisely defined in advance of the vote. It might even appeal to Reform voters - one clause could be to return to the pre 2019 status quo on automatically returning unsuccessful asylum seekers to the EU border they came across, which would stop the boats just as effectively as it did when it was in place.
Here's someone who might be willing to write it into the manifesto. Expelled as a shadow frontbencher by Corbyn by voting in favour of the single market.
Reigniting Europe as an issue would be catnip for Farage. Sure that's a good idea?
I think Labour would see more potential from gaining votes from some of the 73% of Remain votes who don't currently intend voting Labour than from losing some of the 7% of Leave voters who currently do. Especially as the evidence is that many Leave voters by now regret their choice.
Who could blame anyone for looking at this front bench/cabinet and thinking Even I could do better than that?
Half the posters here could do a better job.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
Admitted culpability, fixed the problem.
Someone else completely unsuited to a career in politics?
I actually think Streeting would be a pretty decent PM.
He’s got some charisma, actually sounds normal, okay he’s London but he’s working class and actually has stuff to say.
Labour could do much worse.
He is tainted by his long association with Mandelson
That is something from which he cannot escape
I’m not sure I agree.
I also don't agree with that.
The fact he has spent the last two years demonstrating he is administratively incompetent, politically inept and deeply loathed by the Labour membership are however things he cannot escape from.
Fortunately, he only has the first two in common with Lettuce Lady.
Who could blame anyone for looking at this front bench/cabinet and thinking Even I could do better than that?
Half the posters here could do a better job.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
Admitted culpability, fixed the problem.
Someone else completely unsuited to a career in politics?
Maybe we need to try a really unsuitable candidate?
A chunk of Hodges from the Mail, referenced above:
The identity of the constituency is currently a tightly guarded secret. But Burnham’s team are completely confident he will be able to carry it in a subsequent by-election.
‘We’re not idiots,’ one ally explained. ‘We’re not just going to throw him out there. We’ve been conducting our own private polling and we’ve been crunching the national and local polls. He’ll win.’
After months of speculation the strategy that is designed to secure Keir Starmer’s removal from Downing Street has finally been revealed. Within the next seven days Burnham will announce his intention to stand again for Westminster, and the seat that will be the vehicle.
Soon after a raft of members of the Parliamentary Labour Party will publicly call on Keir Starmer to confirm he will not prevent Burnham from standing, or delay the contest. If Starmer agrees, then the immediate challenge to his leadership will be temporarily parked. If he refuses, a delegation of members of the Cabinet will go to him and privately tell him he needs to reverse his decision. If he refuses, then they will seek to remove him from office.
Make of it what you will.
I make that the reason why Catherine West is moving tonight...
Is this constituency in the room with you now, Andy?
A chunk of Hodges from the Mail, referenced above:
The identity of the constituency is currently a tightly guarded secret. But Burnham’s team are completely confident he will be able to carry it in a subsequent by-election.
‘We’re not idiots,’ one ally explained. ‘We’re not just going to throw him out there. We’ve been conducting our own private polling and we’ve been crunching the national and local polls. He’ll win.’
After months of speculation the strategy that is designed to secure Keir Starmer’s removal from Downing Street has finally been revealed. Within the next seven days Burnham will announce his intention to stand again for Westminster, and the seat that will be the vehicle.
Soon after a raft of members of the Parliamentary Labour Party will publicly call on Keir Starmer to confirm he will not prevent Burnham from standing, or delay the contest. If Starmer agrees, then the immediate challenge to his leadership will be temporarily parked. If he refuses, a delegation of members of the Cabinet will go to him and privately tell him he needs to reverse his decision. If he refuses, then they will seek to remove him from office.
Make of it what you will.
I make that the reason why Catherine West is moving tonight...
Is this constituency in the room with you now, Andy?
His team has identified Holborn and St Pancras as his best option.
Who could blame anyone for looking at this front bench/cabinet and thinking Even I could do better than that?
Half the posters here could do a better job.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
Admitted culpability, fixed the problem.
Someone else completely unsuited to a career in politics?
Maybe we need to try a really unsuitable candidate?
I actually think Streeting would be a pretty decent PM.
He’s got some charisma, actually sounds normal, okay he’s London but he’s working class and actually has stuff to say.
Labour could do much worse.
He is tainted by his long association with Mandelson
That is something from which he cannot escape
I’m not sure I agree.
I also don't agree with that.
The fact he has spent the last two years demonstrating he is administratively incompetent, politically inept and deeply loathed by the Labour membership are however things he cannot escape from.
Fortunately, he only has the first two in common with Lettuce Lady.
And yet he's done better than most other cabinet ministers.
Which tells us how crap the how lot of them have been telling us about their achievements - either that or there haven't been any other the past 2 years.
Catherine West would be a perfectly decent leader compared to Starmer I think. Get her in and I’ll happily vote for her.
as you did for Starmer and Corbyn?
I actually never voted Corbyn for leader. But yes, any of the candidates except Rayner would bring me back to the Labour fold. If it’s Rayner I’m resigning.
I actually think Streeting would be a pretty decent PM.
He’s got some charisma, actually sounds normal, okay he’s London but he’s working class and actually has stuff to say.
Labour could do much worse.
He is tainted by his long association with Mandelson
That is something from which he cannot escape
I’m not sure I agree.
I also don't agree with that.
The fact he has spent the last two years demonstrating he is administratively incompetent, politically inept and deeply loathed by the Labour membership are however things he cannot escape from.
Fortunately, he only has the first two in common with Lettuce Lady.
And yet he's done better than most other cabinet ministers.
Which tells us how crap the how lot of them have been telling us about their achievements - either that or there haven't been any other the past 2 years.
You say he has done better. What has he done and how is it better than any other?
Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson Shadow Housing Secretary James Cleverly Reform UK's Business Spokesperson Richard Tice Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iowerth Labour MP Catherine West
Who could blame anyone for looking at this front bench/cabinet and thinking Even I could do better than that?
Half the posters here could do a better job.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
Admitted culpability, fixed the problem.
Someone else completely unsuited to a career in politics?
Maybe we need to try a really unsuitable candidate?
Again?
Everyone was claiming that Corbyn, Truss and Gordon Brittas were somehow awesome answers the great political question.
All this week I’ve been thinking about Owen Smith & how somehow despite about 90% of the PLP despairing of Corbyn, they managed to find the one candidate who (no offence) wasn’t going to beat him,& what that says about Labour ability to organise a coup. Which brings us to
A chunk of Hodges from the Mail, referenced above:
The identity of the constituency is currently a tightly guarded secret. But Burnham’s team are completely confident he will be able to carry it in a subsequent by-election.
‘We’re not idiots,’ one ally explained. ‘We’re not just going to throw him out there. We’ve been conducting our own private polling and we’ve been crunching the national and local polls. He’ll win.’
After months of speculation the strategy that is designed to secure Keir Starmer’s removal from Downing Street has finally been revealed. Within the next seven days Burnham will announce his intention to stand again for Westminster, and the seat that will be the vehicle.
Soon after a raft of members of the Parliamentary Labour Party will publicly call on Keir Starmer to confirm he will not prevent Burnham from standing, or delay the contest. If Starmer agrees, then the immediate challenge to his leadership will be temporarily parked. If he refuses, a delegation of members of the Cabinet will go to him and privately tell him he needs to reverse his decision. If he refuses, then they will seek to remove him from office.
That's going a bit far, but a manifesto commitment to hold a referendum on rejoining the EU would work, although the lesson from what happened after 2016 is that terms of accession would have to be negotiated and precisely defined in advance of the vote. It might even appeal to Reform voters - one clause could be to return to the pre 2019 status quo on automatically returning unsuccessful asylum seekers to the EU border they came across, which would stop the boats just as effectively as it did when it was in place.
Here's someone who might be willing to write it into the manifesto. Expelled as a shadow frontbencher by Corbyn by voting in favour of the single market.
Reigniting Europe as an issue would be catnip for Farage. Sure that's a good idea?
I think Labour would see more potential from gaining votes from some of the 73% of Remain votes who don't currently intend voting Labour than from losing some of the 7% of Leave voters who currently do. Especially as the evidence is that many Leave voters by now regret their choice.
But there are many current and potential Labour voters who, even if they were Remain voters, will not thank him for reopening the whole debate.
Personally I would like to see him move towards the single market via EFTA or some other agreement. But I have to recognise that I am in a minority and that many, many voters will see any move in that direction as a ploy to save his own skin and likely to reignite the chaos of the immediate post referendum times.
No I think it makes Nige favourite for next PM. A leadership election against some fucking random will result in a resounding victory for Starmer and secure him until 2029. It's almost as if this is a plot devised by No. 10 to flush out traitors.
There are various possibilities but I can 100% assure you that one of them is not Keir Starmer beating Catherine West in a binary leadership contest. Seriously, no chance. Zero. I'll put a Reform poster in my window if I'm wrong.
You know how the Tories thought things couldn't get worse after Boris and party gate. Then we ended up with Liz Truss. That's the path Labour are on right now. Pretty much every Tory member would turn back the clock and keep Boris hevwuee while he may not have won we wouldn't have been wiped out.
Then they thought it couldn't get any worse after Liz Truss and the minibudget, and they got Sunk in, and got worse poll ratings, higher bond yields, and their worst ever electoral defeat.
Rayner can’t stand until HMRC finish their investigation. Burnham needs to overcome lots of hurdles to even become an MP so if things really go crazy and there ends up being a leadership challenge quickly then Labour could end up in an even worse position .
Hang on, I think Rayner is in the clear.
Worst case scenario she took bad advice and underpaid a small amount of tax. Bad, but apparently its now ok to take 5 mil in crypto, take advice to find an excuse and then not declare it.
Whilst Farage benefits from differential rules, if he can just swat it away, so can she.
Rayner isn't in the clear yet - which is why West / Streeting are moving quickly. Currently 2 of the favourites (Rayner, Burnham) are at the vets unable to start.
Don't you think Rayner's stand off with HMRC could be resolved by her paying up whilst still denying culpability. Don't forget Farage and Tice have got similar jeopardy x 100.
Catherine West would be a perfectly decent leader compared to Starmer I think. Get her in and I’ll happily vote for her.
as you did for Starmer and Corbyn?
I actually never voted Corbyn for leader. But yes, any of the candidates except Rayner would bring me back to the Labour fold. If it’s Rayner I’m resigning.
I am not sure why. Rayner has more about her than most of the also rans and Starmer.
She might be a disaster, but she might handle herself better than anticipated. Every PM we have expected to rely on since Thatcher (and I despised her) has been disastrous, without exception.
A chunk of Hodges from the Mail, referenced above:
The identity of the constituency is currently a tightly guarded secret. But Burnham’s team are completely confident he will be able to carry it in a subsequent by-election.
‘We’re not idiots,’ one ally explained. ‘We’re not just going to throw him out there. We’ve been conducting our own private polling and we’ve been crunching the national and local polls. He’ll win.’
After months of speculation the strategy that is designed to secure Keir Starmer’s removal from Downing Street has finally been revealed. Within the next seven days Burnham will announce his intention to stand again for Westminster, and the seat that will be the vehicle.
Soon after a raft of members of the Parliamentary Labour Party will publicly call on Keir Starmer to confirm he will not prevent Burnham from standing, or delay the contest. If Starmer agrees, then the immediate challenge to his leadership will be temporarily parked. If he refuses, a delegation of members of the Cabinet will go to him and privately tell him he needs to reverse his decision. If he refuses, then they will seek to remove him from office.
It would be immensely funny if Catherine West accidentally ended up PM. And all the carefully manoeuvring by the rest ends up for nought.
You’d need a heart of stone not to laugh.
I for one reckon she'll deserve it.
A prime minister who I think of as "Who?" seems like a fitting end to this political period. "Not with a Bang but a Whimper" seems quite apt for the current state of things, and maybe Starmer's reign in particular.
Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson Shadow Housing Secretary James Cleverly Reform UK's Business Spokesperson Richard Tice Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iowerth Labour MP Catherine West
Who could blame anyone for looking at this front bench/cabinet and thinking Even I could do better than that?
Half the posters here could do a better job.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
Admitted culpability, fixed the problem.
Someone else completely unsuited to a career in politics?
Maybe we need to try a really unsuitable candidate?
Again?
Everyone was claiming that Corbyn, Truss and Gordon Brittas were somehow awesome answers the great political question.
Rayner can’t stand until HMRC finish their investigation. Burnham needs to overcome lots of hurdles to even become an MP so if things really go crazy and there ends up being a leadership challenge quickly then Labour could end up in an even worse position .
Hang on, I think Rayner is in the clear.
Worst case scenario she took bad advice and underpaid a small amount of tax. Bad, but apparently its now ok to take 5 mil in crypto, take advice to find an excuse and then not declare it.
Whilst Farage benefits from differential rules, if he can just swat it away, so can she.
Rayner isn't in the clear yet - which is why West / Streeting are moving quickly. Currently 2 of the favourites (Rayner, Burnham) are at the vets unable to start.
Don't you think Rayner's stand off with HMRC could be resolved by her paying up whilst still denying culpability. Don't forget Farage and Tice have got similar jeopardy x 100.
Catherine West would be a perfectly decent leader compared to Starmer I think. Get her in and I’ll happily vote for her.
as you did for Starmer and Corbyn?
I actually never voted Corbyn for leader. But yes, any of the candidates except Rayner would bring me back to the Labour fold. If it’s Rayner I’m resigning.
I am not sure why. Rayner has more about her than most of the also rans and Starmer.
She might be a disaster, but she might handle herself better expected. Ever PM we have expected to rely on since Thatcher (and I despised her) has been disastrous, without exception.
I'm no admirer of Rayner - anything but - but leaving aside the fact that the tax trap she was caught in is an idiotic one, why should she have to pay tax she doesn't owe just for her career? Anyone telling me to do that would be very brusquely told to get stuffed and I am not holding a politician to a higher standard than I would myself.
Who could blame anyone for looking at this front bench/cabinet and thinking Even I could do better than that?
Half the posters here could do a better job.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
Admitted culpability, fixed the problem.
Someone else completely unsuited to a career in politics?
Maybe we need to try a really unsuitable candidate?
Again?
Everyone was claiming that Corbyn, Truss and Gordon Brittas were somehow awesome answers the great political question.
Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson Shadow Housing Secretary James Cleverly Reform UK's Business Spokesperson Richard Tice Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iowerth Labour MP Catherine West
Excluding Farage and his leadership flip flopping, has any leader of a major political party who lost a GE and then resigned ever gone on to stand again for the leadership?
This only really applies to modern history.
It kinda happened with Salmond and the SNP, but it's not quite the same.
Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson Shadow Housing Secretary James Cleverly Reform UK's Business Spokesperson Richard Tice Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iowerth Labour MP Catherine West
Rayner can’t stand until HMRC finish their investigation. Burnham needs to overcome lots of hurdles to even become an MP so if things really go crazy and there ends up being a leadership challenge quickly then Labour could end up in an even worse position .
Hang on, I think Rayner is in the clear.
Worst case scenario she took bad advice and underpaid a small amount of tax. Bad, but apparently its now ok to take 5 mil in crypto, take advice to find an excuse and then not declare it.
Whilst Farage benefits from differential rules, if he can just swat it away, so can she.
Rayner isn't in the clear yet - which is why West / Streeting are moving quickly. Currently 2 of the favourites (Rayner, Burnham) are at the vets unable to start.
Don't you think Rayner's stand off with HMRC could be resolved by her paying up whilst still denying culpability. Don't forget Farage and Tice have got similar jeopardy x 100.
Catherine West would be a perfectly decent leader compared to Starmer I think. Get her in and I’ll happily vote for her.
as you did for Starmer and Corbyn?
I actually never voted Corbyn for leader. But yes, any of the candidates except Rayner would bring me back to the Labour fold. If it’s Rayner I’m resigning.
I am not sure why. Rayner has more about her than most of the also rans and Starmer.
She might be a disaster, but she might handle herself better expected. Ever PM we have expected to rely on since Thatcher (and I despised her) has been disastrous, without exception.
I'm no admirer of Rayner - anything but - but leaving aside the fact that the tax trap she was caught in is an idiotic one, why should she have to pay tax she doesn't owe just for her career? Anyone telling me to do that would be very brusquely told to get stuffed and I am not holding a politician to a higher standard than I would myself.
I do hold politicians to a higher standard than I would myself and don't have a problem doing so, because they ask, and are given, significant power over their fellow citizens. They should be better, more just, more ethical, than the average person.
That doesn't mean I think they all need to be saints or prove they give alms to charity etc, just that I don't believe it is automatically wrong to hold them to a standard above the common person.
One of the stupidest articles The Times has ever published
Just this paragraph:
“I personally know” “rejoining would be relatively fast” blah blah blah
That’s great. Ben fucking Judah personally knows that “France wants us back”. Which France, ben? The one run by macron who has to quit in two years? Before your referendum? How about Mme Le Pen? Have you asked her? Or Bardella? Or anyone in Spain? Cyprus? Bulgaria? They all have a veto
This is the exact equivalent of the idiot brexiteers who promised that Brexit would be “the easiest deal in history”
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 43m NEW: Catherine West’s stalking horse effort appears to be faltering as real leadership contenders are now distancing themselves from her
Supporters of Wes Streeting say he hasn’t spoken to her for months. Others dismiss her as a Corbynista
Rage against the dying of the light from Ben Judah there. Bless.
Jonny Freedland said say thing in Guardian this morning (the EU bit not the raging at the light bit). The one game changer Starmer could pull on Monday.
Who could blame anyone for looking at this front bench/cabinet and thinking Even I could do better than that?
Half the posters here could do a better job.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 43m NEW: Catherine West’s stalking horse effort appears to be faltering as real leadership contenders are now distancing themselves from her
Supporters of Wes Streeting say he hasn’t spoken to her for months. Others dismiss her as a Corbynista
Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson Shadow Housing Secretary James Cleverly Reform UK's Business Spokesperson Richard Tice Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iowerth Labour MP Catherine West
After a week in which the staunchly pro Brexit and anti EU Reform party has won nearly 1000 seats from Labour across the North and Midlands and Wales and Essex completely tin eared
Rayner can’t stand until HMRC finish their investigation. Burnham needs to overcome lots of hurdles to even become an MP so if things really go crazy and there ends up being a leadership challenge quickly then Labour could end up in an even worse position .
Hang on, I think Rayner is in the clear.
Worst case scenario she took bad advice and underpaid a small amount of tax. Bad, but apparently its now ok to take 5 mil in crypto, take advice to find an excuse and then not declare it.
Whilst Farage benefits from differential rules, if he can just swat it away, so can she.
Rayner isn't in the clear yet - which is why West / Streeting are moving quickly. Currently 2 of the favourites (Rayner, Burnham) are at the vets unable to start.
Don't you think Rayner's stand off with HMRC could be resolved by her paying up whilst still denying culpability. Don't forget Farage and Tice have got similar jeopardy x 100.
Catherine West would be a perfectly decent leader compared to Starmer I think. Get her in and I’ll happily vote for her.
as you did for Starmer and Corbyn?
I actually never voted Corbyn for leader. But yes, any of the candidates except Rayner would bring me back to the Labour fold. If it’s Rayner I’m resigning.
I am not sure why. Rayner has more about her than most of the also rans and Starmer.
She might be a disaster, but she might handle herself better expected. Ever PM we have expected to rely on since Thatcher (and I despised her) has been disastrous, without exception.
I'm no admirer of Rayner - anything but - but leaving aside the fact that the tax trap she was caught in is an idiotic one, why should she have to pay tax she doesn't owe just for her career? Anyone telling me to do that would be very brusquely told to get stuffed and I am not holding a politician to a higher standard than I would myself.
However Rayner's jeopardy would appear to be more significantly villainous than Farage personally accepting £5m from crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne or Tice allegedly underpaying £800,000 to HMRC.
One of the stupidest articles The Times has ever published
Just this paragraph:
“I personally know” “rejoining would be relatively fast” blah blah blah
That’s great. Ben fucking Judah personally knows that “France wants us back”. Which France, ben? The one run by macron who has to quit in two years? Before your referendum? How about Mme Le Pen? Have you asked her? Or Bardella? Or anyone in Spain? Cyprus? Bulgaria? They all have a veto
This is the exact equivalent of the idiot brexiteers who promised that Brexit would be “the easiest deal in history”
I think it is probably true the EU in general, and many EU leaders, would like us back, because a powerful nation of 70m coming back into the fold would add a lot of money into the coffers, bolster the cause of European unity, plus demonstrate the UK had been humbled by leaving and had to crawl back. It's so in their interests that I find it rather silly to think they wouldn't - like how some fools started to claim the EU no longer cared what happens in the UK, which is just dumb.
That's not the same as the EU wanting us back in now. Why would they want such a headache when the debate in the UK on the subject is still far from assured?
One of the stupidest articles The Times has ever published
Just this paragraph:
“I personally know” “rejoining would be relatively fast” blah blah blah
That’s great. Ben fucking Judah personally knows that “France wants us back”. Which France, ben? The one run by macron who has to quit in two years? Before your referendum? How about Mme Le Pen? Have you asked her? Or Bardella? Or anyone in Spain? Cyprus? Bulgaria? They all have a veto
This is the exact equivalent of the idiot brexiteers who promised that Brexit would be “the easiest deal in history”
You do realise he spent nearly two years working for the Foreign Secretary.
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 43m NEW: Catherine West’s stalking horse effort appears to be faltering as real leadership contenders are now distancing themselves from her
Supporters of Wes Streeting say he hasn’t spoken to her for months. Others dismiss her as a Corbynista
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 43m NEW: Catherine West’s stalking horse effort appears to be faltering as real leadership contenders are now distancing themselves from her
Supporters of Wes Streeting say he hasn’t spoken to her for months. Others dismiss her as a Corbynista
When it comes to Rayner, I am in tune with the public.
Only 35% say Streeting would be unacceptable and 34% Cooper so both do better than Reeves and Rayner and indeed Ed Miliband at 43% unacceptable if not as well as Burnham at just 23% unacceptable and 43% acceptable
One of the stupidest articles The Times has ever published
Just this paragraph:
“I personally know” “rejoining would be relatively fast” blah blah blah
That’s great. Ben fucking Judah personally knows that “France wants us back”. Which France, ben? The one run by macron who has to quit in two years? Before your referendum? How about Mme Le Pen? Have you asked her? Or Bardella? Or anyone in Spain? Cyprus? Bulgaria? They all have a veto
This is the exact equivalent of the idiot brexiteers who promised that Brexit would be “the easiest deal in history”
You do realise he spent nearly two years working for the Foreign Secretary.
He probably has some good contacts.
Yes. He was responsible for drafting the Chagos Deal
Rayner can’t stand until HMRC finish their investigation. Burnham needs to overcome lots of hurdles to even become an MP so if things really go crazy and there ends up being a leadership challenge quickly then Labour could end up in an even worse position .
Hang on, I think Rayner is in the clear.
Worst case scenario she took bad advice and underpaid a small amount of tax. Bad, but apparently its now ok to take 5 mil in crypto, take advice to find an excuse and then not declare it.
Whilst Farage benefits from differential rules, if he can just swat it away, so can she.
Rayner isn't in the clear yet - which is why West / Streeting are moving quickly. Currently 2 of the favourites (Rayner, Burnham) are at the vets unable to start.
Don't you think Rayner's stand off with HMRC could be resolved by her paying up whilst still denying culpability. Don't forget Farage and Tice have got similar jeopardy x 100.
Catherine West would be a perfectly decent leader compared to Starmer I think. Get her in and I’ll happily vote for her.
as you did for Starmer and Corbyn?
I actually never voted Corbyn for leader. But yes, any of the candidates except Rayner would bring me back to the Labour fold. If it’s Rayner I’m resigning.
I am not sure why. Rayner has more about her than most of the also rans and Starmer.
She might be a disaster, but she might handle herself better expected. Ever PM we have expected to rely on since Thatcher (and I despised her) has been disastrous, without exception.
I'm no admirer of Rayner - anything but - but leaving aside the fact that the tax trap she was caught in is an idiotic one, why should she have to pay tax she doesn't owe just for her career? Anyone telling me to do that would be very brusquely told to get stuffed and I am not holding a politician to a higher standard than I would myself.
I do hold politicians to a higher standard than I would myself and don't have a problem doing so, because they ask, and are given, significant power over their fellow citizens. They should be better, more just, more ethical, than the average person.
That doesn't mean I think they all need to be saints or prove they give alms to charity etc, just that I don't believe it is automatically wrong to hold them to a standard above the common person.
I don't. If I'm not able to meet a standard myself I don't hold others to it. That includes politicians.
Farage is a spiv. No ifs and no buts. Rayner is an idiot.No ifs and no buts. But she should not be forced to pay a tax she doesn't owe if she doesn't owe it especially as IIUC she would get it paid back in a few months anyway.
It would be good to see her leverage this farce to get some sane reforms to our tax laws, but again we come back to she's an idiot.
Who could blame anyone for looking at this front bench/cabinet and thinking Even I could do better than that?
Half the posters here could do a better job.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
Admitted culpability, fixed the problem.
Someone else completely unsuited to a career in politics?
Maybe we need to try a really unsuitable candidate?
Again?
Everyone was claiming that Corbyn, Truss and Gordon Brittas were somehow awesome answers the great political question.
Maybe we need to think outside that box.
You inadvertently omitted Johnson.
As to your second paragraph, that is why I am less concerned with Rayner as PM than I would be Milliband, Streeting or the King of the North.
She might be dreadful, but her immediate predecessors haven't exactly shone brightly. On the other hand she might be OK.
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 43m NEW: Catherine West’s stalking horse effort appears to be faltering as real leadership contenders are now distancing themselves from her
Supporters of Wes Streeting say he hasn’t spoken to her for months. Others dismiss her as a Corbynista
Burnham allies strongly oppose West
Ffs Labour.
Looks like both Burnham and Starmer allies are united in not wanting a leadership contest now which could replace Starmer with Streeting or Rayner
One of the stupidest articles The Times has ever published
Just this paragraph:
“I personally know” “rejoining would be relatively fast” blah blah blah
That’s great. Ben fucking Judah personally knows that “France wants us back”. Which France, ben? The one run by macron who has to quit in two years? Before your referendum? How about Mme Le Pen? Have you asked her? Or Bardella? Or anyone in Spain? Cyprus? Bulgaria? They all have a veto
This is the exact equivalent of the idiot brexiteers who promised that Brexit would be “the easiest deal in history”
You do realise he spent nearly two years working for the Foreign Secretary.
He probably has some good contacts.
Yes. He was responsible for drafting the Chagos Deal
That's going a bit far, but a manifesto commitment to hold a referendum on rejoining the EU would work, although the lesson from what happened after 2016 is that terms of accession would have to be negotiated and precisely defined in advance of the vote. It might even appeal to Reform voters - one clause could be to return to the pre 2019 status quo on automatically returning unsuccessful asylum seekers to the EU border they came across, which would stop the boats just as effectively as it did when it was in place.
Here's someone who might be willing to write it into the manifesto. Expelled as a shadow frontbencher by Corbyn by voting in favour of the single market.
Comments
Alex Wickham
@alexwickham
·
33m
Catherine West’s interview round is going down extremely badly with some MPs across the factional divide
People are stunned by this quote: “You know what sometimes happens to stalking horses? They become the candidate”
Which seems to suggest she thinks she could really be PM
https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2053190629857824879
It might even appeal to Reform voters - one clause could be to return to the pre 2019 status quo on automatically returning unsuccessful asylum seekers to the EU border they came across, which would stop the boats just as effectively as it did when it was in place.
Here's someone who might be willing to write it into the manifesto. Expelled as a shadow frontbencher by Corbyn by voting in favour of the single market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_West#/media/File:Official_portrait_of_Catherine_West_crop_2.jpg
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/29/jeremy-corbyn-sacks-three-frontbenchers-after-single-market-vote
The disaffected urbanites in London, etc., will very rapidly return to Labour if they think Farage could win. No way does Zack retain them in the face of that existential threat.
The WWC is a very different proposition. They require someone who understands them and promises radical change, something completely beyond Starmer. It's pretty obvious that The King of the North, with his insurgent appeal, is the only person Labour has who has a hope. The fact that he isn't an MP and the establishment is trying to stop him only burnishes his appeal.
For Labour it's Burnham or Bust.
(And I'm not a fan)
It probably was a provocative comment. That was probably the point - sometimes people need provoking in order to act.
The identity of the constituency is currently a tightly guarded secret. But Burnham’s team are completely confident he will be able to carry it in a subsequent by-election.
‘We’re not idiots,’ one ally explained. ‘We’re not just going to throw him out there. We’ve been conducting our own private polling and we’ve been crunching the national and local polls. He’ll win.’
After months of speculation the strategy that is designed to secure Keir Starmer’s removal from Downing Street has finally been revealed. Within the next seven days Burnham will announce his intention to stand again for Westminster, and the seat that will be the vehicle.
Soon after a raft of members of the Parliamentary Labour Party will publicly call on Keir Starmer to confirm he will not prevent Burnham from standing, or delay the contest. If Starmer agrees, then the immediate challenge to his leadership will be temporarily parked. If he refuses, a delegation of members of the Cabinet will go to him and privately tell him he needs to reverse his decision. If he refuses, then they will seek to remove him from office.
Make of it what you will.
Starmer needs to be more Eluned
But he won't
Stand by for the briefings about Catherine West’s mental health. That’s what they do.
At work, the other day, one of the managers put on the group chat that he had made a mistake in a specification, causing the current production problem. And here was the fix.
Admitted culpability, fixed the problem.
After Thursday, there isn't a seat he could win with any certainty to make it worth the bother or his supporters.
Still, he can pick up the pieces after the election that Starmer's successor contrives to lose.
If there are any meaningful pieces to pick up.
https://youtu.be/Iz5iyzlhT1k
As that's better than leaving a problem in place, depending on the seriousness of the problem of course.
Burnham, if he goes for it, could be that guy. “I fought the Labour establishment and won” is a good starting point in the current situation. He’s already has a good reputation, which again helps.
West could be that guy also. She had the balls to go over the top first. I guess we’ll see.
https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/VotingIntention_MRP_Results_260505_w.pdf
The fact he has spent the last two years demonstrating he is administratively incompetent, politically inept and deeply loathed by the Labour membership are however things he cannot escape from.
Fortunately, he only has the first two in common with Lettuce Lady.
Which tells us how crap the how lot of them have been telling us about their achievements - either that or there haven't been any other the past 2 years.
It was about as subtle as a pun by @TSE .
Keeping Brown away from finance would be a bloody good start.
Maybe we need to think outside that box.
All this week I’ve been thinking about Owen Smith & how somehow despite about 90% of the PLP despairing of Corbyn, they managed to find the one candidate who (no offence) wasn’t going to beat him,& what that says about Labour ability to organise a coup. Which brings us to
https://bsky.app/profile/gabyhinsliff.bsky.social/post/3mlh2fvcjnc2u
Burnham is becoming more twattish by the day.
Personally I would like to see him move towards the single market via EFTA or some other agreement. But I have to recognise that I am in a minority and that many, many voters will see any move in that direction as a ploy to save his own skin and likely to reignite the chaos of the immediate post referendum times.
She might be a disaster, but she might handle herself better than anticipated. Every PM we have expected to rely on since Thatcher (and I despised her) has been disastrous, without exception.
Sounds rather an ugly way to talk about a lady. What cad said that?
This stuff writes itself.
Stomp on box with big boots.
Douse box in petrol.
Ignite box.
Rachel Reeves (53%) and Angela Rayner (45%) have the highest proportions saying they would be unacceptable as future Labour leader.
https://x.com/opiniumresearch/status/2053200834230657462
When it comes to Rayner, I am in tune with the public.
He’s suspended and sits as an Indy. He’s got every reason to know the shit games the labour whips team plays.
That which is dead, can never die
That doesn't mean I think they all need to be saints or prove they give alms to charity etc, just that I don't believe it is automatically wrong to hold them to a standard above the common person.
Just this paragraph:
“I personally know” “rejoining would be relatively fast” blah blah blah
That’s great. Ben fucking Judah personally knows that “France wants us back”. Which France, ben? The one run by macron who has to quit in two years? Before your referendum? How about Mme Le Pen? Have you asked her? Or Bardella? Or anyone in Spain? Cyprus? Bulgaria? They all have a veto
This is the exact equivalent of the idiot brexiteers who promised that Brexit would be “the easiest deal in history”
https://youtu.be/dqhnktGOWY8?si=PGtrdI6ex0fHusCh
@alexwickham
·
43m
NEW: Catherine West’s stalking horse effort appears to be faltering as real leadership contenders are now distancing themselves from her
Supporters of Wes Streeting say he hasn’t spoken to her for months. Others dismiss her as a Corbynista
Burnham allies strongly oppose West
Tice and Nigey. Nigey and Tice.
That's not the same as the EU wanting us back in now. Why would they want such a headache when the debate in the UK on the subject is still far from assured?
He probably has some good contacts.
"It could be YOU.........."
No real new logic. I just think he's a bit of a dickhead.
Next question
Farage is a spiv. No ifs and no buts. Rayner is an idiot.No ifs and no buts. But she should not be forced to pay a tax she doesn't owe if she doesn't owe it especially as IIUC she would get it paid back in a few months anyway.
It would be good to see her leverage this farce to get some sane reforms to our tax laws, but again we come back to she's an idiot.
As to your second paragraph, that is why I am less concerned with Rayner as PM than I would be Milliband, Streeting or the King of the North.
She might be dreadful, but her immediate predecessors haven't exactly shone brightly. On the other hand she might be OK.
Failed legal challenges have delayed major infrastructure projects like new roads and power stations by a collective 32 years.
Labour recently changed the law to cut the time it takes to throw out anti-infrastructure lawsuits.
And it's working. One parish council sued to try to stop a solar farm.
In the past, the case would likely have dragged on for over a year. But last month, a Judge threw out the case in just two months.
That's just one project, but that's a year saved already. It means new infrastructure will get built quicker and we can reap the benefits sooner.
https://nitter.poast.org/Sam_Dumitriu/status/2052346950414995586#m