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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,588

    Another related question.

    That this terrible idea is so popular (majority support even from Conservative voters) is pointing to something being perceived as wrong with the current economic order.

    So what is that something, and what is the small-c-conservative-reform-to-avoid-revolution policy that improves that wrong?

    Conservatives lack bollocks and courage, except to turn on each other.

    That's their biggest problem.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited April 18
    Another successful modern addition: the amazing glass roof over the central court of the British Museum

    A work of genius that transforms what was a cluttered mess into an awesome, pivotal atrium
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,580
    Opinium

    Reform UK leads on 26% (-1), followed by Labour on 22% (+1). The Conservatives remain on 17%, with the Greens on 15% and the Liberal Democrats on 11% (-1).

    Despite Reform’s lead, Nigel Farage’s personal ratings remain negative (27% approve, 47% disapprove, net -21), and have declined slightly since March.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,885

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    Chacun a son gout

    The pyramid really is an extension. Have you ever been? It’s a new, unified entrance for the whole museum, with large extensions to galleries (but mainly underground)

    Moreover, the Louvre is already a huge mish mash of styles and periods. The famous eastern facade by Perrault is a harmonious masterpiece of the 17th century. There are also some medieval bits and some quite cheesy Victorian additions. So it’s in keeping with its history that it continues to evolve. And I like the glass pyramid

    The French often get this wrong however. They have totally ruined the courtyard of the Palais Royal with those stupid stunted black and white columns by Daniel Buren (1986). Apparently Buren deliberately made something ugly and disharmonious so it would be provocative, memorable and win him Awards

    I hope he’s suffering in hell
    Pyramid symbolises Egyptian civilisation.
    No, the pyramids symbolises that slavery works!
    I believe current theories are that it was contractors who did the work?
    Yes, but I think there's evidence to say slaves were involved somewhere along the process.
    I presume so given how many of the buggers there were around in general.
    Many years ago I read that it would have taken the entire population of Egypt to work on the pyramids which means Egypt would have stopped as a functioning state which means foreign workers would have been involved.
    Wasn't it seasonal work when there was no major cropwork to do? And that the workers lived in camps with reasonable rations and facilities. Almost like medival pilgrims combining religious duty and socialising.

    I do not think there was an available workforce in any neighbouring country either. In pre industrial times wealth was measured by the number of people that you could command rather than by land or other assets. People being the limiting factor in production.

    Hence the pyramids should be seen as a form of wealth redistribution by the ruling classes to keep the workers active in the off season, and dependent on the heirarchy for their daily bread.
    This is why health and safety/HR records are some important, if they had kept proper records we could work out who actually built the pyramids.
    I’m more angry about the lack of DEI hires on the project. You don’t see anyone in wheelchairs or any women in the wall paintings involved in the construction.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,199

    The World would be a much happier place if it was made up entire of people like Alec Stock, Bobby Robson and Roy Hodgson.

    Just sayin'.

    Really like the name check of Alec Stock. You are truly a connoisseur of great football managers.
    I.might add Joe Mercer and Jimmy Armfield to the list.
    Jimmy Sirrell and Dario Vardi have to be added for lower League excellence over decades

    Any one can manage money, these guys lived off scraps
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,580
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    🔷Nigel Farage records worst approval rating of this parliament at net -21.
    🔴Keir Starmer is at -39. One of his best scores since last summer.
    🔵The gap between Badenoch (-11) and Farage (-21) is at its widest since she became leader.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,547

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    Chacun a son gout

    The pyramid really is an extension. Have you ever been? It’s a new, unified entrance for the whole museum, with large extensions to galleries (but mainly underground)

    Moreover, the Louvre is already a huge mish mash of styles and periods. The famous eastern facade by Perrault is a harmonious masterpiece of the 17th century. There are also some medieval bits and some quite cheesy Victorian additions. So it’s in keeping with its history that it continues to evolve. And I like the glass pyramid

    The French often get this wrong however. They have totally ruined the courtyard of the Palais Royal with those stupid stunted black and white columns by Daniel Buren (1986). Apparently Buren deliberately made something ugly and disharmonious so it would be provocative, memorable and win him Awards

    I hope he’s suffering in hell
    Pyramid symbolises Egyptian civilisation.
    No, the pyramids symbolises that slavery works!
    I believe current theories are that it was contractors who did the work?
    Yes, but I think there's evidence to say slaves were involved somewhere along the process.
    I presume so given how many of the buggers there were around in general.
    Many years ago I read that it would have taken the entire population of Egypt to work on the pyramids which means Egypt would have stopped as a functioning state which means foreign workers would have been involved.
    Wasn't it seasonal work when there was no major cropwork to do? And that the workers lived in camps with reasonable rations and facilities. Almost like medival pilgrims combining religious duty and socialising.

    I do not think there was an available workforce in any neighbouring country either. In pre industrial times wealth was measured by the number of people that you could command rather than by land or other assets. People being the limiting factor in production.

    Hence the pyramids should be seen as a form of wealth redistribution by the ruling classes to keep the workers active in the off season, and dependent on the heirarchy for their daily bread.
    This is why health and safety/HR records are some important, if they had kept proper records we could work out who actually built the pyramids.
    The working towns that housed the workers have been found and excavated.

    We have inscriptions describing pay and conditions. Even the minor tombs of the middle managers on the project.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,287
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    It is a bit dated. You can find more attractive juxtapositions of old buildings with modern glass structures randomly walking around the City of London.
    The pyramid is just in that awkward period when it goes from being bold and modern to being old and venerated. In another 20-30 years everyone will love it

    Because it is genuinely clever and rather beautiful. They need to do a better job of cleaning the glass. But then that is so hard as the Louvre is so insanely popular

    I’d quite like to see an extension to the Scottish parliament. It’s an interesting example of no matter what they do it will be better than the `original

    Every time I see that building in real life or in a photo I get a physical shock at its ugliness
    The Scottish gov should just move back into Parliament House.
    Then knock down the new Holyrood and sow the ground with salt. Turn it into a car wash with adjoining Quikfit tyre shop. It willl be better than the awful shite that cost $4bn
    They could level it and plant a memorial garden like they do with murder houses. “This garden is in memory of the murder of beautiful Scottish civic architecture. Let all who come here remember the atrocity committed on this site.”
    Yes. Like Fred West’s House

    It still amazes me that you can spend that much money to get a building that ugly, which contrives to look cheap. What happened? The jobbie building is awful but as Theuniondivvie correctly pointed out, all you gotta do it snip the offending curly roof away, lower the building, and it would then become simply mediocre

    Holyrood is awful in every way. It is irredeemable, in terms of the exterior
    I believe that was my idea, unless this is Newton/Leibniz. You can get an angle grinder from the middle aisle at Aldi.
  • 🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    🔷Nigel Farage records worst approval rating of this parliament at net -21.
    🔴Keir Starmer is at -39. One of his best scores since last summer.
    🔵The gap between Badenoch (-11) and Farage (-21) is at its widest since she became leader.

    This is presumably polling done before the latest Lord Yummygate shenanigans?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,588
    The Pet Shop Boys are underrated.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,220
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    Chacun a son gout

    The pyramid really is an extension. Have you ever been? It’s a new, unified entrance for the whole museum, with large extensions to galleries (but mainly underground)

    Moreover, the Louvre is already a huge mish mash of styles and periods. The famous eastern facade by Perrault is a harmonious masterpiece of the 17th century. There are also some medieval bits and some quite cheesy Victorian additions. So it’s in keeping with its history that it continues to evolve. And I like the glass pyramid

    The French often get this wrong however. They have totally ruined the courtyard of the Palais Royal with those stupid stunted black and white columns by Daniel Buren (1986). Apparently Buren deliberately made something ugly and disharmonious so it would be provocative, memorable and win him Awards

    I hope he’s suffering in hell
    Pyramid symbolises Egyptian civilisation.
    No, the pyramids symbolises that slavery works!
    I believe current theories are that it was contractors who did the work?
    Yes, but I think there's evidence to say slaves were involved somewhere along the process.
    I presume so given how many of the buggers there were around in general.
    Many years ago I read that it would have taken the entire population of Egypt to work on the pyramids which means Egypt would have stopped as a functioning state which means foreign workers would have been involved.
    Are you sure ?

    Egypt had a 1.5 million(ISH) population when the pyramids were built
    The ancients had some really clever ways of moving big blocks of stone about. If you don't know about them, and just assume they used brute force, then it requires vast numbers of people.

    There's some guy who messes around with working out how to build ancient monuments and it's all really clever.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,580
    Leon said:

    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    🔷Nigel Farage records worst approval rating of this parliament at net -21.
    🔴Keir Starmer is at -39. One of his best scores since last summer.
    🔵The gap between Badenoch (-11) and Farage (-21) is at its widest since she became leader.

    This is presumably polling done before the latest Lord Yummygate shenanigans?
    Opinium conducted a nationally and politically representative survey of 2,014 UK adults between 15th and 17th April 2026.

    So Wed to Fri, so two thirds of the fieldwork would have covered the latest Mandy revelations.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363

    The Pet Shop Boys are underrated.

    At last, after god knows how many years, a post from you I fully agree with!
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 916
    Leon said:

    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    It is a bit dated. You can find more attractive juxtapositions of old buildings with modern glass structures randomly walking around the City of London.
    The pyramid is just in that awkward period when it goes from being bold and modern to being old and venerated. In another 20-30 years everyone will love it

    Because it is genuinely clever and rather beautiful. They need to do a better job of cleaning the glass. But then that is so hard as the Louvre is so insanely popular

    I’d quite like to see an extension to the Scottish parliament. It’s an interesting example of no matter what they do it will be better than the `original

    Every time I see that building in real life or in a photo I get a physical shock at its ugliness
    The Scottish gov should just move back into Parliament House.
    Then knock down the new Holyrood and sow the ground with salt. Turn it into a car wash with adjoining Quikfit tyre shop. It willl be better than the awful shite that cost $4bn
    £400m.

    The Westminster renovation is on course for £40bn:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgp2pzqr84o
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,580

    The Pet Shop Boys are underrated.

    Not by me.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,788

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    Chacun a son gout

    The pyramid really is an extension. Have you ever been? It’s a new, unified entrance for the whole museum, with large extensions to galleries (but mainly underground)

    Moreover, the Louvre is already a huge mish mash of styles and periods. The famous eastern facade by Perrault is a harmonious masterpiece of the 17th century. There are also some medieval bits and some quite cheesy Victorian additions. So it’s in keeping with its history that it continues to evolve. And I like the glass pyramid

    The French often get this wrong however. They have totally ruined the courtyard of the Palais Royal with those stupid stunted black and white columns by Daniel Buren (1986). Apparently Buren deliberately made something ugly and disharmonious so it would be provocative, memorable and win him Awards

    I hope he’s suffering in hell
    Pyramid symbolises Egyptian civilisation.
    No, the pyramids symbolises that slavery works!
    I believe current theories are that it was contractors who did the work?
    Yes, but I think there's evidence to say slaves were involved somewhere along the process.
    Which evidence?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809
    Gaussian said:

    Leon said:

    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    It is a bit dated. You can find more attractive juxtapositions of old buildings with modern glass structures randomly walking around the City of London.
    The pyramid is just in that awkward period when it goes from being bold and modern to being old and venerated. In another 20-30 years everyone will love it

    Because it is genuinely clever and rather beautiful. They need to do a better job of cleaning the glass. But then that is so hard as the Louvre is so insanely popular

    I’d quite like to see an extension to the Scottish parliament. It’s an interesting example of no matter what they do it will be better than the `original

    Every time I see that building in real life or in a photo I get a physical shock at its ugliness
    The Scottish gov should just move back into Parliament House.
    Then knock down the new Holyrood and sow the ground with salt. Turn it into a car wash with adjoining Quikfit tyre shop. It willl be better than the awful shite that cost $4bn
    £400m.

    The Westminster renovation is on course for £40bn:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgp2pzqr84o
    It'll cost nothing as they aren't going to approve that level of spend and refuse to move out or take simple options.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,885

    The Pet Shop Boys are underrated.

    They are only underrated by heathens.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,027

    On topic, then Britons are ignorant. We don't see enough politicians (of any colour) with the courage of their convictions to argue against this, because they fear how they'd look.

    If I had to I'd vote Labour to stop the Greens.

    I think, likewise, I'd vote Tories to stop a Green or Reform government. And I'm on the left-liberal side of centre. The Green policies simply aren't serious.

    It would probably take them being in with a chance of governing for me to do so, mind. In a by election I'd just vote normally.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,547

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    Chacun a son gout

    The pyramid really is an extension. Have you ever been? It’s a new, unified entrance for the whole museum, with large extensions to galleries (but mainly underground)

    Moreover, the Louvre is already a huge mish mash of styles and periods. The famous eastern facade by Perrault is a harmonious masterpiece of the 17th century. There are also some medieval bits and some quite cheesy Victorian additions. So it’s in keeping with its history that it continues to evolve. And I like the glass pyramid

    The French often get this wrong however. They have totally ruined the courtyard of the Palais Royal with those stupid stunted black and white columns by Daniel Buren (1986). Apparently Buren deliberately made something ugly and disharmonious so it would be provocative, memorable and win him Awards

    I hope he’s suffering in hell
    Pyramid symbolises Egyptian civilisation.
    No, the pyramids symbolises that slavery works!
    I believe current theories are that it was contractors who did the work?
    Yes, but I think there's evidence to say slaves were involved somewhere along the process.
    I presume so given how many of the buggers there were around in general.
    Many years ago I read that it would have taken the entire population of Egypt to work on the pyramids which means Egypt would have stopped as a functioning state which means foreign workers would have been involved.
    Are you sure ?

    Egypt had a 1.5 million(ISH) population when the pyramids were built
    The ancients had some really clever ways of moving big blocks of stone about. If you don't know about them, and just assume they used brute force, then it requires vast numbers of people.

    There's some guy who messes around with working out how to build ancient monuments and it's all really clever.
    In one program about the pyramids, the American chap trying ideas on moving blocks as a test, simply asked the Egyptian locals who’d been hired to do the re-enactment what they would do.

    The head chap had them moving stuff quite efficiently using some bits of wood and some ropes. In minutes. They were used to using manpower to do such things.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,788

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    What a load of shit.

    Check your language. Do much better”

    Complete and utter cringe


    Football reporters should never ever, ever, ever use the word ‘disaster’ in relation to giving a goal away. We’ve just marked the Hillsborough tragedy. Check your language. Do much better.

    https://x.com/markpougatch/status/2045519036876808485?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I thought we had moved beyond such tone policing crap.
    Lol, what are they going to say instead? It was an inconvenience? A mishap?

    Context modifies language.

    Sometimes I find the hyperbole ridiculous, but I don't think the word disaster has to be reserved only for incidents resulting in at least double-digit deaths.
    Context is for kings.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,580
    Shocked face.

    HSBC involved in this, again?

    Banking giants accused of links to Iranian money laundering

    HSBC and Standard Chartered ordered to turn over records by US judge investigating sanctions evasion


    HSBC and Standard Chartered have become embroiled in allegations of a multimillion-pound scheme to launder money for Iran, The Telegraph can disclose.

    The two British multinational banks are accused of “unwittingly” processing payments which it is claimed may be linked to a complex sanctions-evading conspiracy.

    They are among five banks – including JP Morgan Chase, Citibank and Bank of New York Mellon – which have been ordered by a United States judge to hand over their records for inspection.

    The disclosure that major British banks have been linked to potential money laundering for Tehran comes as the White House threatens to punish any “foreign financial institutions” which support Iran.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/18/banking-giants-accused-links-iran-money-laundering/
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,872

    Leon said:

    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    🔷Nigel Farage records worst approval rating of this parliament at net -21.
    🔴Keir Starmer is at -39. One of his best scores since last summer.
    🔵The gap between Badenoch (-11) and Farage (-21) is at its widest since she became leader.

    This is presumably polling done before the latest Lord Yummygate shenanigans?
    Opinium conducted a nationally and politically representative survey of 2,014 UK adults between 15th and 17th April 2026.

    So Wed to Fri, so two thirds of the fieldwork would have covered the latest Mandy revelations.
    There's the time for it to sink in, I suppose.

    But I guess the bigger questions are:

    1 How much has this moved people from pro- to anti-Starmer? My take on what's been said here is that it's affected intensity of opinions, but not the opinions themselves.

    2 How much of this has made the "two minutes and you're up to date on no-longer-local FM, weather and travel next" news bulletins that most normal people have the good sense to rely on? If we get to a point where SKS has to go, that will be different, but probably not in a way that is to the advantage of rival parties.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,788

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    Chacun a son gout

    The pyramid really is an extension. Have you ever been? It’s a new, unified entrance for the whole museum, with large extensions to galleries (but mainly underground)

    Moreover, the Louvre is already a huge mish mash of styles and periods. The famous eastern facade by Perrault is a harmonious masterpiece of the 17th century. There are also some medieval bits and some quite cheesy Victorian additions. So it’s in keeping with its history that it continues to evolve. And I like the glass pyramid

    The French often get this wrong however. They have totally ruined the courtyard of the Palais Royal with those stupid stunted black and white columns by Daniel Buren (1986). Apparently Buren deliberately made something ugly and disharmonious so it would be provocative, memorable and win him Awards

    I hope he’s suffering in hell
    Pyramid symbolises Egyptian civilisation.
    No, the pyramids symbolises that slavery works!
    What slavery?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,877
    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2045578928249581995

    EXCL: Angela Rayner & Andy Burnham held a secret summit on Friday evening - just as Keir Starmer battled to cling on to his premiership.

    Revelation will fuel rumours they are hatching a plot & the PM could face a leadership challenge
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,215

    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    🔷Nigel Farage records worst approval rating of this parliament at net -21.
    🔴Keir Starmer is at -39. One of his best scores since last summer.
    🔵The gap between Badenoch (-11) and Farage (-21) is at its widest since she became leader.

    Net -39 would be better described as "least calamitous"
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,580

    Leon said:

    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    🔷Nigel Farage records worst approval rating of this parliament at net -21.
    🔴Keir Starmer is at -39. One of his best scores since last summer.
    🔵The gap between Badenoch (-11) and Farage (-21) is at its widest since she became leader.

    This is presumably polling done before the latest Lord Yummygate shenanigans?
    Opinium conducted a nationally and politically representative survey of 2,014 UK adults between 15th and 17th April 2026.

    So Wed to Fri, so two thirds of the fieldwork would have covered the latest Mandy revelations.
    There's the time for it to sink in, I suppose.

    But I guess the bigger questions are:

    1 How much has this moved people from pro- to anti-Starmer? My take on what's been said here is that it's affected intensity of opinions, but not the opinions themselves.

    2 How much of this has made the "two minutes and you're up to date on no-longer-local FM, weather and travel next" news bulletins that most normal people have the good sense to rely on? If we get to a point where SKS has to go, that will be different, but probably not in a way that is to the advantage of rival parties.
    Back in the day, Sir Robert Worcester said it used to take around 10 to 14 days for a story/event to show an impact in the polls.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    Lots of people obviously think Starmer ought to resign. He doesn't appear on top of his own government. However I'm very nervous at the idea of him being ousted as I have no faith in Labour choosing a more competent successor. On balance I'd like them to keep him.

    Are Reform on a small but undeniably downward polling trend? The whole crypto thing gets murkier and murkier.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,140
    I just heard John Mcdonnell make a good case for Starmer's resignation. There's no doubt the case would be more effective if Badenoch could be persuaded to put a sock in it. Mcdonnell's an impressive politician
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    edited April 18

    Leon said:

    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    🔷Nigel Farage records worst approval rating of this parliament at net -21.
    🔴Keir Starmer is at -39. One of his best scores since last summer.
    🔵The gap between Badenoch (-11) and Farage (-21) is at its widest since she became leader.

    This is presumably polling done before the latest Lord Yummygate shenanigans?
    Opinium conducted a nationally and politically representative survey of 2,014 UK adults between 15th and 17th April 2026.

    So Wed to Fri, so two thirds of the fieldwork would have covered the latest Mandy revelations.
    There's the time for it to sink in, I suppose.

    But I guess the bigger questions are:

    1 How much has this moved people from pro- to anti-Starmer? My take on what's been said here is that it's affected intensity of opinions, but not the opinions themselves.

    2 How much of this has made the "two minutes and you're up to date on no-longer-local FM, weather and travel next" news bulletins that most normal people have the good sense to rely on? If we get to a point where SKS has to go, that will be different, but probably not in a way that is to the advantage of rival parties.
    It's the kind of thing that most normal people have absolutely no interest in, and that Sir Keir would be incredulous about and piously demanding resignations over if he were LotO
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809

    Lots of people obviously think Starmer ought to resign. He doesn't appear on top of his own government. However I'm very nervous at the idea of him being ousted as I have no faith in Labour choosing a more competent successor. On balance I'd like them to keep him.

    Are Reform on a small but undeniably downward polling trend? The whole crypto thing gets murkier and murkier.

    He's clearly not up to it, but unless he's caught in a direct lie which requires resignation my natural aversion to rapid change would mean I'd be reluctant to see him go after less than 2 years.

    Starmer - saved by innate conservatism?
  • glwglw Posts: 10,923
    edited April 18

    On topic, then Britons are ignorant. We don't see enough politicians (of any colour) with the courage of their convictions to argue against this, because they fear how they'd look.

    If I had to I'd vote Labour to stop the Greens.

    I used to quite like the Greens when they were all save the whales, worried about the ozone hole, and telling people to hug a tree. They seem to have been completely taken over by the sort of chumps who wanted Corbyn to run the country.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,872
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    🔷Nigel Farage records worst approval rating of this parliament at net -21.
    🔴Keir Starmer is at -39. One of his best scores since last summer.
    🔵The gap between Badenoch (-11) and Farage (-21) is at its widest since she became leader.

    This is presumably polling done before the latest Lord Yummygate shenanigans?
    Opinium conducted a nationally and politically representative survey of 2,014 UK adults between 15th and 17th April 2026.

    So Wed to Fri, so two thirds of the fieldwork would have covered the latest Mandy revelations.
    There's the time for it to sink in, I suppose.

    But I guess the bigger questions are:

    1 How much has this moved people from pro- to anti-Starmer? My take on what's been said here is that it's affected intensity of opinions, but not the opinions themselves.

    2 How much of this has made the "two minutes and you're up to date on no-longer-local FM, weather and travel next" news bulletins that most normal people have the good sense to rely on? If we get to a point where SKS has to go, that will be different, but probably not in a way that is to the advantage of rival parties.
    It's the kind of thing that most normal people have absolutely no interest in, and that Sir Keir would be incredulous about and piously demanding resignations over if he were LotO
    I'm sure he would, because that's the role of LotO and always has been.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,686
    Evening all :)

    The forthcoming Super El Nino may well push the politics of climate change (or rather the politics of climate change mitigation) back up the agenda - we'll see.

    30 years or so ago, Green politics meant something else - I lived near the Beddington Zero Energy Development (BedZed) and visited not long after it opened. It offered (or seemed to) an alternative sustainable model for future development and I know it was followed in some other places. It suggested, and I've always believed this, the possibility of human ingenuity and technological innovation as providing a response to and mitigation from the impact of climate change.

    There was an eco-authoritarian streak even then in Green politics - the State would take the lead in reducing the environmental impact of individuals rather than individuals and communities leading the way.

    Unfortunately, it seems, the current incarnation of Green politics has decided to stop talking about that and started talking about other things which is absurd at a point when genuine progress is being made to move away from fossil fuels to renewables and Net Zero policies, although derided by some, point the way to a different and sustainable economic model for the mid 21st century and beyond.

    We may be a small player in emission terms but in technological innovation, we can and should be a world leader.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    🔷Nigel Farage records worst approval rating of this parliament at net -21.
    🔴Keir Starmer is at -39. One of his best scores since last summer.
    🔵The gap between Badenoch (-11) and Farage (-21) is at its widest since she became leader.

    This is presumably polling done before the latest Lord Yummygate shenanigans?
    Opinium conducted a nationally and politically representative survey of 2,014 UK adults between 15th and 17th April 2026.

    So Wed to Fri, so two thirds of the fieldwork would have covered the latest Mandy revelations.
    There's the time for it to sink in, I suppose.

    But I guess the bigger questions are:

    1 How much has this moved people from pro- to anti-Starmer? My take on what's been said here is that it's affected intensity of opinions, but not the opinions themselves.

    2 How much of this has made the "two minutes and you're up to date on no-longer-local FM, weather and travel next" news bulletins that most normal people have the good sense to rely on? If we get to a point where SKS has to go, that will be different, but probably not in a way that is to the advantage of rival parties.
    It's the kind of thing that most normal people have absolutely no interest in, and that Sir Keir would be incredulous about and piously demanding resignations over if he were LotO
    I'm sure he would, because that's the role of LotO and always has been.
    Yes, but the 'would you take the opposite stance if it happened to you?' test remains a useful one when judging the actions and statements of a politician on how hypocritical they are being. It forces them to use some political skill to figure out how to claim it is different.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,788

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    Chacun a son gout

    The pyramid really is an extension. Have you ever been? It’s a new, unified entrance for the whole museum, with large extensions to galleries (but mainly underground)

    Moreover, the Louvre is already a huge mish mash of styles and periods. The famous eastern facade by Perrault is a harmonious masterpiece of the 17th century. There are also some medieval bits and some quite cheesy Victorian additions. So it’s in keeping with its history that it continues to evolve. And I like the glass pyramid

    The French often get this wrong however. They have totally ruined the courtyard of the Palais Royal with those stupid stunted black and white columns by Daniel Buren (1986). Apparently Buren deliberately made something ugly and disharmonious so it would be provocative, memorable and win him Awards

    I hope he’s suffering in hell
    Pyramid symbolises Egyptian civilisation.
    The other blatant symbol of Egyptian civilisation in modern Europe is the actual Egyptian obelisk at the centre of St Peter's, Rome.
    Complete with "Ankh" at its top.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,323
    Starmer might have banked a little goodwill from his leadership during the Iran War .

    If I was one of his advisers I’d tell him to come out fighting , admit he was wrong over Mandelson, apologise to the public but say when it really came to the most important decision a PM can make he got it right as opposed to Farage and Badenoch .

    He’s got nothing to lose and needs to own the mess but ensure the public are thinking , okay he fxcked up but I’d still prefer him in office at this time than the alternatives.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,815
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The forthcoming Super El Nino may well push the politics of climate change (or rather the politics of climate change mitigation) back up the agenda - we'll see.

    30 years or so ago, Green politics meant something else - I lived near the Beddington Zero Energy Development (BedZed) and visited not long after it opened. It offered (or seemed to) an alternative sustainable model for future development and I know it was followed in some other places. It suggested, and I've always believed this, the possibility of human ingenuity and technological innovation as providing a response to and mitigation from the impact of climate change.

    There was an eco-authoritarian streak even then in Green politics - the State would take the lead in reducing the environmental impact of individuals rather than individuals and communities leading the way.

    Unfortunately, it seems, the current incarnation of Green politics has decided to stop talking about that and started talking about other things which is absurd at a point when genuine progress is being made to move away from fossil fuels to renewables and Net Zero policies, although derided by some, point the way to a different and sustainable economic model for the mid 21st century and beyond.

    We may be a small player in emission terms but in technological innovation, we can and should be a world leader.

    When I think about it, the appropriation of the Green brand by Polanski, and the student politicians in Scotland, is pretty disgraceful and, if addressing environmental breakdown is findamental to our collective futures, completely irresponsible.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    kle4 said:

    Lots of people obviously think Starmer ought to resign. He doesn't appear on top of his own government. However I'm very nervous at the idea of him being ousted as I have no faith in Labour choosing a more competent successor. On balance I'd like them to keep him.

    Are Reform on a small but undeniably downward polling trend? The whole crypto thing gets murkier and murkier.

    He's clearly not up to it, but unless he's caught in a direct lie which requires resignation my natural aversion to rapid change would mean I'd be reluctant to see him go after less than 2 years.

    Starmer - saved by innate conservatism?
    If the May elections are terrible even Labour might be inclined to act. Clearly losing Wales to go with Scotland would be a body blow (though one I guess they know will happen) but London might be the real story. What percentage of Labour members live there?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,239
    Gaussian said:

    Leon said:

    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    It is a bit dated. You can find more attractive juxtapositions of old buildings with modern glass structures randomly walking around the City of London.
    The pyramid is just in that awkward period when it goes from being bold and modern to being old and venerated. In another 20-30 years everyone will love it

    Because it is genuinely clever and rather beautiful. They need to do a better job of cleaning the glass. But then that is so hard as the Louvre is so insanely popular

    I’d quite like to see an extension to the Scottish parliament. It’s an interesting example of no matter what they do it will be better than the `original

    Every time I see that building in real life or in a photo I get a physical shock at its ugliness
    The Scottish gov should just move back into Parliament House.
    Then knock down the new Holyrood and sow the ground with salt. Turn it into a car wash with adjoining Quikfit tyre shop. It willl be better than the awful shite that cost $4bn
    £400m.

    The Westminster renovation is on course for £40bn:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgp2pzqr84o
    Original budget £40m.

    The Sydney Opera House was also ten times over budget. But it's iconic, rather than laughable.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,239
    carnforth said:

    Gaussian said:

    Leon said:

    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me I’m in the best room in Killeavy Castle Hotel, under the Ring of Gullion, County Down, Ulster

    And I am sipping some wine as I contemplate the view from my bedroom

    How on earth did they get planning permission for the travel lodge looking extension?
    It’s quite jarring, isn’t it?

    But then the castle is faux 19th century and not especially beautiful. It’s not like they desecrated a medieval jewel

    And also, judging by the photos in the lobby, the entire place was burned out and derelict. So my guess is the authorities agreed to the big modern extension on the grounds that someone would save the old building and make it useful

    And the grounds are exceptionally lovely, melting into the mountains of Mourne. Reminds me strongly of the way Gidleigh Park blurs into Dartmoor
    If it's anything like Historic Environment Scotland (or English Heritage I think the English version is), you are not allowed to extend a historic building with a building that is in keeping with its style, as that is pastiche. So you have to add some sort of glass and steel carbuncle with a bit of slate cladding and a living roof - you have no choice.

    No idea if this is the case in Ireland but it could well be.
    Maybe. I don’t know that was an actual rule tho? Just architectural fashion?

    Anyway I was right about the antecedents. The castle is a 19th century folly, not the real thing. It looks a tiny bit naff to be honest (it is a pastiche in itself, ironically). But it has an eccentric charm

    By 2019 it was totally derelict and the council gave it to the new owner with some eagerness, as long as he agreed to preserve access to the ancient woods etc
    You can see good examples of this rule (complete with images) here in this glass company that specialises in such fuck ugly extensions:

    https://www.iqglassuk.com/technical-advice/guide-to-listed-building-classification-and-regulations-in-scotland/s88796/

    Historic Environment Scotland (HES) set out broad guidelines for extensions to listed buildings:

    1. Extensions must not detract from the character of the original structure
    2. To this end, designers should aim for a modern addition that does not impact or overshadow the appearance of the original building
    It's double-speak. One is respecting the character of the original structure by adding a glass shipping container to it in a way that you wouldn't be respecting it if you added a sympathetic extension with leaded windows and timber framing.
    It varies. I really like some modernist extensions to historic buildings

    The Louvre Pyramid is the classic example of a bold modern addition that really WORKS

    But an awful lot fail

    In general I think all domestic architecture should get the approval, or not, of King Charles III. I’m a bit more relaxed on public and commercial buildings. A bit
    Personally I think the pyramid looks shite. It's kitsch. The tacky metal and glass hasn't aged well against the very attractive building it's been placed within.

    But equally it's not really an extension, it's a sort of art installation in the middle, so I don't think it's really an example of the breed.
    It is a bit dated. You can find more attractive juxtapositions of old buildings with modern glass structures randomly walking around the City of London.
    The pyramid is just in that awkward period when it goes from being bold and modern to being old and venerated. In another 20-30 years everyone will love it

    Because it is genuinely clever and rather beautiful. They need to do a better job of cleaning the glass. But then that is so hard as the Louvre is so insanely popular

    I’d quite like to see an extension to the Scottish parliament. It’s an interesting example of no matter what they do it will be better than the `original

    Every time I see that building in real life or in a photo I get a physical shock at its ugliness
    The Scottish gov should just move back into Parliament House.
    Then knock down the new Holyrood and sow the ground with salt. Turn it into a car wash with adjoining Quikfit tyre shop. It willl be better than the awful shite that cost $4bn
    £400m.

    The Westminster renovation is on course for £40bn:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgp2pzqr84o
    Original budget £40m.

    The Sydney Opera House was also ten times over budget. But it's iconic, rather than laughable.
    Though it should be pointed out that it's only the shells which are iconic. The brutalist muck beneath is never mentioned...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,857
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The forthcoming Super El Nino may well push the politics of climate change (or rather the politics of climate change mitigation) back up the agenda - we'll see.

    30 years or so ago, Green politics meant something else - I lived near the Beddington Zero Energy Development (BedZed) and visited not long after it opened. It offered (or seemed to) an alternative sustainable model for future development and I know it was followed in some other places. It suggested, and I've always believed this, the possibility of human ingenuity and technological innovation as providing a response to and mitigation from the impact of climate change.

    There was an eco-authoritarian streak even then in Green politics - the State would take the lead in reducing the environmental impact of individuals rather than individuals and communities leading the way.

    Unfortunately, it seems, the current incarnation of Green politics has decided to stop talking about that and started talking about other things which is absurd at a point when genuine progress is being made to move away from fossil fuels to renewables and Net Zero policies, although derided by some, point the way to a different and sustainable economic model for the mid 21st century and beyond.

    We may be a small player in emission terms but in technological innovation, we can and should be a world leader.

    I think this year is going to be quite a biggy for climate change in the USA. There's a spring drought in the Southern USA with unseasonably high temperatures, and historically low snow levels in the Rockies and Sierra Nevada. Expect drought and fires.

  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,815
    nico67 said:

    Starmer might have banked a little goodwill from his leadership during the Iran War .

    If I was one of his advisers I’d tell him to come out fighting , admit he was wrong over Mandelson, apologise to the public but say when it really came to the most important decision a PM can make he got it right as opposed to Farage and Badenoch .

    He’s got nothing to lose and needs to own the mess but ensure the public are thinking , okay he fxcked up but I’d still prefer him in office at this time than the alternatives.

    Wasn't he initially overruled by his cabinet on Iran?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,959
    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,959
    edited April 18
    Richard Tice failed to pay £100k in tax, benefiting his investment firm — which then gave big sums to Reform

    Tice gave contradictory reasons for why four shell companies paid zero tax. @DanNeidle says they flouted "basic" rule, face HMRC probe

    https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2045580152608845825?s=20
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    I wonder what price bookies would have a Reform vs Tory vote share match bet at the next GE
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,239
    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The forthcoming Super El Nino may well push the politics of climate change (or rather the politics of climate change mitigation) back up the agenda - we'll see.

    30 years or so ago, Green politics meant something else - I lived near the Beddington Zero Energy Development (BedZed) and visited not long after it opened. It offered (or seemed to) an alternative sustainable model for future development and I know it was followed in some other places. It suggested, and I've always believed this, the possibility of human ingenuity and technological innovation as providing a response to and mitigation from the impact of climate change.

    There was an eco-authoritarian streak even then in Green politics - the State would take the lead in reducing the environmental impact of individuals rather than individuals and communities leading the way.

    Unfortunately, it seems, the current incarnation of Green politics has decided to stop talking about that and started talking about other things which is absurd at a point when genuine progress is being made to move away from fossil fuels to renewables and Net Zero policies, although derided by some, point the way to a different and sustainable economic model for the mid 21st century and beyond.

    We may be a small player in emission terms but in technological innovation, we can and should be a world leader.

    I think this year is going to be quite a biggy for climate change in the USA. There's a spring drought in the Southern USA with unseasonably high temperatures, and historically low snow levels in the Rockies and Sierra Nevada. Expect drought and fires.

    Problem is, environmentalists spent so long admonishing deniers about "confusing weather and climate" that now the narratives about one year have less effect. Even saying that extreme weather events are more likely now muddies the waters. A sticky wicket.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,896

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,239
    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,959
    edited April 18
    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    It quite amazing that nobody said Prime Minster, the Independent has reported this and they WhatApps us the story, now MPs have raised this in the HoC. I think for arse covering sake we should probably find out.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    edited April 18
    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The forthcoming Super El Nino may well push the politics of climate change (or rather the politics of climate change mitigation) back up the agenda - we'll see.

    30 years or so ago, Green politics meant something else - I lived near the Beddington Zero Energy Development (BedZed) and visited not long after it opened. It offered (or seemed to) an alternative sustainable model for future development and I know it was followed in some other places. It suggested, and I've always believed this, the possibility of human ingenuity and technological innovation as providing a response to and mitigation from the impact of climate change.

    There was an eco-authoritarian streak even then in Green politics - the State would take the lead in reducing the environmental impact of individuals rather than individuals and communities leading the way.

    Unfortunately, it seems, the current incarnation of Green politics has decided to stop talking about that and started talking about other things which is absurd at a point when genuine progress is being made to move away from fossil fuels to renewables and Net Zero policies, although derided by some, point the way to a different and sustainable economic model for the mid 21st century and beyond.

    We may be a small player in emission terms but in technological innovation, we can and should be a world leader.

    I think this year is going to be quite a biggy for climate change in the USA. There's a spring drought in the Southern USA with unseasonably high temperatures, and historically low snow levels in the Rockies and Sierra Nevada. Expect drought and fires.

    They won’t make the link. See Australia in the last 2 decades: some of the world’s top deniers in a country that’s one of the world’s biggest victims of climate change.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The forthcoming Super El Nino may well push the politics of climate change (or rather the politics of climate change mitigation) back up the agenda - we'll see.

    30 years or so ago, Green politics meant something else - I lived near the Beddington Zero Energy Development (BedZed) and visited not long after it opened. It offered (or seemed to) an alternative sustainable model for future development and I know it was followed in some other places. It suggested, and I've always believed this, the possibility of human ingenuity and technological innovation as providing a response to and mitigation from the impact of climate change.

    There was an eco-authoritarian streak even then in Green politics - the State would take the lead in reducing the environmental impact of individuals rather than individuals and communities leading the way.

    Unfortunately, it seems, the current incarnation of Green politics has decided to stop talking about that and started talking about other things which is absurd at a point when genuine progress is being made to move away from fossil fuels to renewables and Net Zero policies, although derided by some, point the way to a different and sustainable economic model for the mid 21st century and beyond.

    We may be a small player in emission terms but in technological innovation, we can and should be a world leader.

    I think this year is going to be quite a biggy for climate change in the USA. There's a spring drought in the Southern USA with unseasonably high temperatures, and historically low snow levels in the Rockies and Sierra Nevada. Expect drought and fires.

    Problem is, environmentalists spent so long admonishing deniers about "confusing weather and climate" that now the narratives about one year have less effect. Even saying that extreme weather events are more likely now muddies the waters. A sticky wicket.
    Repeat after me: atmospheric physics isn’t a humanity.

    The global radiation balance doesn’t actually care who’s winning the meme war. It just processes the inputs and outputs and makes things hotter.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,323
    edited April 18

    Richard Tice failed to pay £100k in tax, benefiting his investment firm — which then gave big sums to Reform

    Tice gave contradictory reasons for why four shell companies paid zero tax. @DanNeidle says they flouted "basic" rule, face HMRC probe

    https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2045580152608845825?s=20

    Will this get any proper media attention ? Or will Reform get another pass ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,959
    edited April 18
    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    The Birthday Cake story was total nonsense. If that really was the extent of it it would have been outrageous that he was chucked out as PM. In reality it was the weekly piss ups that he clearly nodded / winked were ok (and plenty of stories he had his own illegal gatherings) and then of course he lied and lied and lied.

    What I thought was outrageous, the individuals who were off their tits by 5.30pm every Friday in #10 we weren't allowed to know who they were.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,896

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    It quite amazing that nobody said Prime Minster, the Independent has reported this and they WhatApps us the story, now MPs have raised this in the HoC. I think for arse covering sake we should probably find out.
    Some PMs might even have noticed and asked for confirmation that that was not right, especially when you're fielding questions about it in the House every week. None of this is remotely credible I am afraid.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,959
    edited April 18
    Following Sunday Times story about £100k of unpaid tax - following our stories re. £92k non-payment and £600k avoidance - Richard Tice now says he is "happy to put things right" and "if my numbers need rechecking, of course I will pay what is owed".

    He also accuses The Sunday Times of unspecified "incorrect" assumptions and says we "openly admit" working with @DanNeidle

    https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2045588160395063370?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    It quite amazing that nobody said Prime Minster, the Independent has reported this and they WhatApps us the story, now MPs have raised this in the HoC. I think for arse covering sake we should probably find out.
    Yes, surely the Head of Comms updates on this stuff? Not exactly a day to day type story.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,323

    Following Sunday Times story about £100k of unpaid tax - following our stories re. £92k non-payment and £600k avoidance - Richard Tice now says he is "happy to put things right" and "if my numbers need rechecking, of course I will pay what is owed".

    He also accuses The Sunday Times of unspecified "incorrect" assumptions and says we "openly admit" working with @DanNeidle

    https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2045588160395063370?s=20

    What a load of drivel from Tice .

    Another grifter pretending to be the champion of “ working people “.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809

    Following Sunday Times story about £100k of unpaid tax - following our stories re. £92k non-payment and £600k avoidance - Richard Tice now says he is "happy to put things right" and "if my numbers need rechecking, of course I will pay what is owed".

    He also accuses The Sunday Times of unspecified "incorrect" assumptions and says we "openly admit" working with @DanNeidle

    https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2045588160395063370?s=20

    Ah yes, say people have something wrong but don't set out in what way, a classic move.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    The Lib Dems again showing they read the mood of the nation on the things that really matter.

    This is an abomination. Half time ‘entertainment’ should be limited to a raffle prize draw and - at a push - a badly muffled interview with a retired player.

    https://x.com/timfarron/status/2045226082337493199?s=46
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,588

    Opinium

    Reform UK leads on 26% (-1), followed by Labour on 22% (+1). The Conservatives remain on 17%, with the Greens on 15% and the Liberal Democrats on 11% (-1).

    Despite Reform’s lead, Nigel Farage’s personal ratings remain negative (27% approve, 47% disapprove, net -21), and have declined slightly since March.

    He's not winning an election with that.
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    nico67 said:

    Richard Tice failed to pay £100k in tax, benefiting his investment firm — which then gave big sums to Reform

    Tice gave contradictory reasons for why four shell companies paid zero tax. @DanNeidle says they flouted "basic" rule, face HMRC probe

    https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2045580152608845825?s=20

    Will this get any proper media attention ? Or will Reform get another pass ?
    Yes, it’s only made The Times front page, but with a push and a shove we might get it in to the Romford Recorder, then watch people sit up and take notice
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809
    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    I know why they wouldn't have, but I said at the time they should have made No.10 an exception to the various restrictions in the first place, given they coordinate running the country from there.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,140
    nico67 said:

    Starmer might have banked a little goodwill from his leadership during the Iran War .

    If I was one of his advisers I’d tell him to come out fighting , admit he was wrong over Mandelson, apologise to the public but say when it really came to the most important decision a PM can make he got it right as opposed to Farage and Badenoch .

    He’s got nothing to lose and needs to own the mess but ensure the public are thinking , okay he fxcked up but I’d still prefer him in office at this time than the alternatives.

    That would be good advice if he had come out against the Americans and Israelis illegal invasion of Iran but he did no such thing. After fumbling around he said he would only give 'defensive support' Which meant nothing. If he had the courage of his convictions he would have declared the invasion illegal which of course it was.
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    I know why they wouldn't have, but I said at the time they should have made No.10 an exception to the various restrictions in the first place, given they coordinate running the country from there.
    100%

    The fact that they were all in a workplace together while the rest of us were locked up indoors surely meant the rules were different for them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809

    Opinium

    Reform UK leads on 26% (-1), followed by Labour on 22% (+1). The Conservatives remain on 17%, with the Greens on 15% and the Liberal Democrats on 11% (-1).

    Despite Reform’s lead, Nigel Farage’s personal ratings remain negative (27% approve, 47% disapprove, net -21), and have declined slightly since March.

    He's not winning an election with that.
    Winning the election is the top goal, ending up with more seats than the Tories is the secondary goal, which is more attainable though still a challenge if their polling slips any further.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,959
    edited April 18
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    I know why they wouldn't have, but I said at the time they should have made No.10 an exception to the various restrictions in the first place, given they coordinate running the country from there.
    I think they would have got absolutely mullered in the press. Remember what they were like, Kay Burley every morning coming up with a new ridicilious what if scenario. But the thought that loads of people cramped into those buildings are socially distancing etc, was always for the birds, it was absolutely impossible to run the operation required while sticking to the official rules. And in reality they all got COVID pretty quickly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809

    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    I know why they wouldn't have, but I said at the time they should have made No.10 an exception to the various restrictions in the first place, given they coordinate running the country from there.
    I think they would have got absolutely mullered in the press. Remember what they were like. But the thought that loads of people cramped into those buildings are socially distancing etc, was always for the birds.
    I'm sure they would have been pilloried for suggesting and implementing it, but they would have had my support at least - what more would a government need?
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    kle4 said:

    Following Sunday Times story about £100k of unpaid tax - following our stories re. £92k non-payment and £600k avoidance - Richard Tice now says he is "happy to put things right" and "if my numbers need rechecking, of course I will pay what is owed".

    He also accuses The Sunday Times of unspecified "incorrect" assumptions and says we "openly admit" working with @DanNeidle

    https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2045588160395063370?s=20

    Ah yes, say people have something wrong but don't set out in what way, a classic move.
    Except the accusation is really simply, his REIT didn't paid the withholding tax due before the dividend was paid.
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    Shadow Cabinet reshuffle rumours

    Stride & Philp out
    Lam, Coutinho and Rankin in

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2045583898516558257?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 6,056
    edited April 18

    nico67 said:

    Starmer might have banked a little goodwill from his leadership during the Iran War .

    If I was one of his advisers I’d tell him to come out fighting , admit he was wrong over Mandelson, apologise to the public but say when it really came to the most important decision a PM can make he got it right as opposed to Farage and Badenoch .

    He’s got nothing to lose and needs to own the mess but ensure the public are thinking , okay he fxcked up but I’d still prefer him in office at this time than the alternatives.

    Wasn't he initially overruled by his cabinet on Iran?
    I think you'll find that was also a mysterious series of events of which he had no knowledge.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,323
    isam said:

    nico67 said:

    Richard Tice failed to pay £100k in tax, benefiting his investment firm — which then gave big sums to Reform

    Tice gave contradictory reasons for why four shell companies paid zero tax. @DanNeidle says they flouted "basic" rule, face HMRC probe

    https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2045580152608845825?s=20

    Will this get any proper media attention ? Or will Reform get another pass ?
    Yes, it’s only made The Times front page, but with a push and a shove we might get it in to the Romford Recorder, then watch people sit up and take notice
    The last article had a column you needed a microscope to read ! No other press were interested and neither BBC or ITV News showed any interest.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,896
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    I know why they wouldn't have, but I said at the time they should have made No.10 an exception to the various restrictions in the first place, given they coordinate running the country from there.
    Or, to be honest, they shouldn't have brought in so many absurd restrictions in the first place. They were hoist on their own petard to some extent. But I always thought that the idea of people who were working together all day were suddenly doing something wrong when they continued to see each other in the same place after hours was nothing but ridiculous.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    nico67 said:

    Following Sunday Times story about £100k of unpaid tax - following our stories re. £92k non-payment and £600k avoidance - Richard Tice now says he is "happy to put things right" and "if my numbers need rechecking, of course I will pay what is owed".

    He also accuses The Sunday Times of unspecified "incorrect" assumptions and says we "openly admit" working with @DanNeidle

    https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2045588160395063370?s=20

    What a load of drivel from Tice .

    Another grifter pretending to be the champion of “ working people “.

    He should lean into it. He represents the ultra-capitalist, Britannia unchained version of Reform, direct heirs to Peter Lilley. Not a fan of Russia because of their Christian anti-woke heritage, rather a fan of Russia because of their oligarchic version of capitalism.

    He doesn’t care about the things Farage or most Reform voters care about. His big topics are net zero, regulation, and the desire for a libertarian free market paradise. Howard’s Way or El Dorado rather than Corrie. Or early Neighbours: He’s Paul Robinson circa 1988.

    Seriously, he should lean into it. Trump has shown how you can appeal to the common man while being the opposite of the common man.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    I know why they wouldn't have, but I said at the time they should have made No.10 an exception to the various restrictions in the first place, given they coordinate running the country from there.
    100%

    The fact that they were all in a workplace together while the rest of us were locked up indoors surely meant the rules were different for them.
    I agree. Partygate was silly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    I know why they wouldn't have, but I said at the time they should have made No.10 an exception to the various restrictions in the first place, given they coordinate running the country from there.
    Or, to be honest, they shouldn't have brought in so many absurd restrictions in the first place. They were hoist on their own petard to some extent. But I always thought that the idea of people who were working together all day were suddenly doing something wrong when they continued to see each other in the same place after hours was nothing but ridiculous.
    The need to move urgently justified a lot of measures to start with, but I think we were slow in responding to what worked or didn't, or what was a reasonable level of restriction in certain scenarios. I hope they've learned better about an approach to schools.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,323
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer might have banked a little goodwill from his leadership during the Iran War .

    If I was one of his advisers I’d tell him to come out fighting , admit he was wrong over Mandelson, apologise to the public but say when it really came to the most important decision a PM can make he got it right as opposed to Farage and Badenoch .

    He’s got nothing to lose and needs to own the mess but ensure the public are thinking , okay he fxcked up but I’d still prefer him in office at this time than the alternatives.

    That would be good advice if he had come out against the Americans and Israelis illegal invasion of Iran but he did no such thing. After fumbling around he said he would only give 'defensive support' Which meant nothing. If he had the courage of his convictions he would have declared the invasion illegal which of course it was.
    Whether we like it or not the UK can’t totally trash its relationship with the US administration. I wish we could tell Trump to go fxck himself . Starmer has done a juggling act which hasn’t been easy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,580
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    I know why they wouldn't have, but I said at the time they should have made No.10 an exception to the various restrictions in the first place, given they coordinate running the country from there.
    100%

    The fact that they were all in a workplace together while the rest of us were locked up indoors surely meant the rules were different for them.
    Except the government banned other places from having the same privileges.

    Several hospitals asked if the medical staff could have a Christmas day meal/lunch and were told no by the government.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,220

    Lots of people obviously think Starmer ought to resign. He doesn't appear on top of his own government. However I'm very nervous at the idea of him being ousted as I have no faith in Labour choosing a more competent successor. On balance I'd like them to keep him.

    Are Reform on a small but undeniably downward polling trend? The whole crypto thing gets murkier and murkier.

    I think it's getting closer to the point where Starter has to go to enforce a minimum level of standards in terms of how he's running the government. I can understand being nervous about his successor, though.

    Reform are definitely on the slide, but as ever it's hard to know how long it will continue for. I would expect them to rally given their likely large gains in the May elections. After that, who knows?
  • isam said:

    Shadow Cabinet reshuffle rumours

    Stride & Philp out
    Lam, Coutinho and Rankin in

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2045583898516558257?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Good. Stride and Philp are terrible. And I don’t even know who they are

    Lam is excellent. She could be the next Tory PM
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    I know why they wouldn't have, but I said at the time they should have made No.10 an exception to the various restrictions in the first place, given they coordinate running the country from there.
    100%

    The fact that they were all in a workplace together while the rest of us were locked up indoors surely meant the rules were different for them.
    Except the government banned other places from having the same privileges.

    Several hospitals asked if the medical staff could have a Christmas day meal/lunch and were told no by the government.
    Which is why breaking the rules was so toxic and why preemptively exempting government from it would have been a political non-starter, but it did just store up the matter for an inevitable crisis.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809
    isam said:

    Shadow Cabinet reshuffle rumours

    Stride & Philp out
    Lam, Coutinho and Rankin in

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2045583898516558257?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    This is terrible news, I've finally managed to remember who Stride is more than five minutes after he's mentioned, and now he's out?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809
    nico67 said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer might have banked a little goodwill from his leadership during the Iran War .

    If I was one of his advisers I’d tell him to come out fighting , admit he was wrong over Mandelson, apologise to the public but say when it really came to the most important decision a PM can make he got it right as opposed to Farage and Badenoch .

    He’s got nothing to lose and needs to own the mess but ensure the public are thinking , okay he fxcked up but I’d still prefer him in office at this time than the alternatives.

    That would be good advice if he had come out against the Americans and Israelis illegal invasion of Iran but he did no such thing. After fumbling around he said he would only give 'defensive support' Which meant nothing. If he had the courage of his convictions he would have declared the invasion illegal which of course it was.
    Whether we like it or not the UK can’t totally trash its relationship with the US administration. I wish we could tell Trump to go fxck himself . Starmer has done a juggling act which hasn’t been easy.
    This is true, but Trump is making it politically infeasible to do more than the bare minimum with his egregious conduct.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,220

    nico67 said:

    Starmer might have banked a little goodwill from his leadership during the Iran War .

    If I was one of his advisers I’d tell him to come out fighting , admit he was wrong over Mandelson, apologise to the public but say when it really came to the most important decision a PM can make he got it right as opposed to Farage and Badenoch .

    He’s got nothing to lose and needs to own the mess but ensure the public are thinking , okay he fxcked up but I’d still prefer him in office at this time than the alternatives.

    Wasn't he initially overruled by his cabinet on Iran?
    That was the story shortly after the war started. If Starmer benefits from it you'd hope it would convince him to empower his Cabinet a bit more - but I wouldn't hold my breath.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,287

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    But it was a secret. No one knew but poor old Olly and he didn't even tell the PM. Honest.
    Shades of Boris' birthday cake. Reported in The Times and no one cared. Until they cared...
    I know why they wouldn't have, but I said at the time they should have made No.10 an exception to the various restrictions in the first place, given they coordinate running the country from there.
    100%

    The fact that they were all in a workplace together while the rest of us were locked up indoors surely meant the rules were different for them.
    Except the government banned other places from having the same privileges.

    Several hospitals asked if the medical staff could have a Christmas day meal/lunch and were told no by the government.
    I think people are missing the point - these were the folk locking people up for months on end. Taking a zealous and pious approach was absolutely necessary to retain credibility. Imagine if it had all come out at the time (maybe there was a D notice on it?)

    The people I was most disappointed with were the civil servants. The whole point of being someone in public service is to take a kind of masochist pleasure in an emergency, laying down you life for your country, get Holst/Elgar on spotify on etc etc. Your whole career has been leading to this moment and you've instead behaved like children.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,996
    edited April 18
    Can anyone explain this:

    Local Elections Winning party (Most seats):

    (Reform 1.14)
    Green 11.5
    (Labour 30)
    (Conservative 50)
    Lib Dem 250

    Local elections Match bet (Lib Dem v Green):

    Lib Dem 1.72
    Green 2.14

    Now maybe there is much more variability in possible Green performance but even so the magnitude of the difference between the markets seems extraordinary.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,287
    edited April 18
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Shadow Cabinet reshuffle rumours

    Stride & Philp out
    Lam, Coutinho and Rankin in

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2045583898516558257?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Good. Stride and Philp are terrible. And I don’t even know who they are

    Lam is excellent. She could be the next Tory PM
    Incorrect - Stride has been pushing Stamp Duty and that's exactly the kind of thing the Tories need to be shouting about to get the HENRYs back, even if it's Badenoch doing the comms.

    If this is more opposition-by-tiktok-meme then they're in trouble, because Farage will always have the beating of them on that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,896
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Shadow Cabinet reshuffle rumours

    Stride & Philp out
    Lam, Coutinho and Rankin in

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2045583898516558257?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Good. Stride and Philp are terrible. And I don’t even know who they are

    Lam is excellent. She could be the next Tory PM
    Stride has been extremely poor. If you can't make a mockery of Reeves you really are not up to it.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,239
    In "all third countries are the same" news:


  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,239
    MelonB said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The forthcoming Super El Nino may well push the politics of climate change (or rather the politics of climate change mitigation) back up the agenda - we'll see.

    30 years or so ago, Green politics meant something else - I lived near the Beddington Zero Energy Development (BedZed) and visited not long after it opened. It offered (or seemed to) an alternative sustainable model for future development and I know it was followed in some other places. It suggested, and I've always believed this, the possibility of human ingenuity and technological innovation as providing a response to and mitigation from the impact of climate change.

    There was an eco-authoritarian streak even then in Green politics - the State would take the lead in reducing the environmental impact of individuals rather than individuals and communities leading the way.

    Unfortunately, it seems, the current incarnation of Green politics has decided to stop talking about that and started talking about other things which is absurd at a point when genuine progress is being made to move away from fossil fuels to renewables and Net Zero policies, although derided by some, point the way to a different and sustainable economic model for the mid 21st century and beyond.

    We may be a small player in emission terms but in technological innovation, we can and should be a world leader.

    I think this year is going to be quite a biggy for climate change in the USA. There's a spring drought in the Southern USA with unseasonably high temperatures, and historically low snow levels in the Rockies and Sierra Nevada. Expect drought and fires.

    Problem is, environmentalists spent so long admonishing deniers about "confusing weather and climate" that now the narratives about one year have less effect. Even saying that extreme weather events are more likely now muddies the waters. A sticky wicket.
    Repeat after me: atmospheric physics isn’t a humanity.

    The global radiation balance doesn’t actually care who’s winning the meme war. It just processes the inputs and outputs and makes things hotter.
    I know. But our responses to it require democratic consent. And such pompousness (them, not you) is counter-productive.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Shadow Cabinet reshuffle rumours

    Stride & Philp out
    Lam, Coutinho and Rankin in

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2045583898516558257?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Good. Stride and Philp are terrible. And I don’t even know who they are

    Lam is excellent. She could be the next Tory PM
    Stride has been extremely poor. If you can't make a mockery of Reeves you really are not up to it.
    Coutinho is already 'in' surely?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    The current Iranian leadership will not give up uranium enrichment, its missile program, support for its regional network of proxies, or its strategic influence over the Strait of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/citrinowicz/status/2045592885362340027
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,491

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    Isn't she a LibDem?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,896
    rcs1000 said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    Isn't she a LibDem?
    No surprise that no one noticed then.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    How out in the cold is Tulsi Gabbard??


    Barak Ravid
    @BarakRavid

    🇺🇸🇮🇷A U.S. official said the situation room meeting was attended by:
    🚨President Trump
    🚨Vice President Vance
    🚨Secretary of State Marco Rubio
    🚨Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
    🚨Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent
    🚨White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles
    🚨White House envoy Steve Witkoff
    🚨CIA Director John Ratliffe
    🚨Joint Chiefs chairman Dan Caine

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/2045578079104381397
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    carnforth said:

    In "all third countries are the same" news:


    Because they've taken one look at the number of UK flights and realised that most airports can't cope with the scheme given the number of UK flights and they way they all arrive within a few minutes of each other..
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    MikeL said:

    Can anyone explain this:

    Local Elections Winning party (Most seats):

    (Reform 1.14)
    Green 11.5
    (Labour 30)
    (Conservative 50)
    Lib Dem 250

    Local elections Match bet (Lib Dem v Green):

    Lib Dem 1.72
    Green 2.14

    Now maybe there is much more variability in possible Green performance but even so the magnitude of the difference between the markets seems extraordinary.

    Reminds me of the 2014 Euros where UKIP were odds on to win but rags in a match bet (or something like that) and I had everyone on here telling me the market was right!

    It wasn’t!

    Can’t see why the Greens aren’t a bet there to be honest, I’ve had a bit
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Shadow Cabinet reshuffle rumours

    Stride & Philp out
    Lam, Coutinho and Rankin in

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2045583898516558257?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Good. Stride and Philp are terrible. And I don’t even know who they are

    Lam is excellent. She could be the next Tory PM
    Stride has been extremely poor. If you can't make a mockery of Reeves you really are not up to it.
    Coutinho is already 'in' surely?
    Is she? I don’t know, but she’s going to be Shadow Chancellor according to The Currant Bun
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,239
    rcs1000 said:

    The report in the Independent that Mandelson had failed security vetting was actually raised in the Commons by Rachel Gilmour on 16 September 2025

    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/2045511553529659514?s=20

    Isn't she a LibDem?
    Stood first for parliament in 1997, then 2001 & 2015, before winning in 2024. Gumption or delusion, one of the two. But also:

    "In January 2025, she said that Butlin's was 'partly' to blame for the low social mobility in her constituency by offering employment that does not require qualifications.[11]

    On 18 March 2025, the BBC reported that during Gilmour's visit to Hinkley Point Nuclear Power Station in her constituency, she was abusive to a security guard after he had pointed out that her driving licence was expired and that he had informed the police. Witnesses stated that she described a film presented by site workers with further abusive language. She denied the allegations.[12]

    On 18 July 2025, the Daily Telegraph reported that Gilmour had submitted an expenses claim for £11.81 in December 2024 for a pub meal, which included chips, a halloumi wrap, a hot drink, and a half-pint of cider. The claim was subsequently rejected."
This discussion has been closed.